Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna

2020-03-18 Thread Jim Brown
My work has been published for ten years, the most current work for two years, and there have been millions of downloads. 73, Jim On 3/18/2020 12:29 PM, Lyn Norstad wrote: so I am sure they would welcome your expertise. Perhaps you should make your services available to them.

Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna

2020-03-18 Thread Jim Brown
Hi Bob, On 3/18/2020 7:18 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: On point #2, the balanced feed line is twisted at my installation. This is one advantage to the vinyl covered line. This makes essentially a twisted pair which Bell Labs many years show is a way to minimize induction into the feed line.  

Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna

2020-03-18 Thread Jim Brown
On 3/18/2020 5:39 AM, Lyn Norstad wrote: I have a hybrid 4:1 / 1:1 balun at the shack end of the balanced feedline and have absolutely no issues. Hi Len, The problem is noise pickup on the line. I think I remember that your QTH is relatively isolated, hence not much local noise. The other

Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna

2020-03-18 Thread Bob McGraw K4TAX
I have to agree with Lyn on several points.   I do agree the directional pattern is different on every band.  For me, that suffices as I am not one to aggressively chase DX.   If you need specific directional patterns, then other considerations for antennas should be undertaken. On point #2,

Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna

2020-03-18 Thread Lyn Norstad
Jim - Your comments are well taken ... but mostly invalid for my installation. For example - 1)Their directional patterns are different on every band; Exactly, and this plays perfectly into my coverage needs. For example, I need (and designed for) 80 meter coverage

Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna

2020-03-18 Thread Vic Rosenthal
I wonder. Wouldn’t such noise be out of phase on the two halves of the flat top and hence be rejected? Also, the nulls will be in the same directions (although the tightness of the pattern will vary) when the antenna is operated from half its design frequency to twice that (e.g., from 40 to 10

Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna

2020-03-17 Thread David Gilbert
Thank you, Jim.  I was going to refute some of the comments by K4TAX and W0LEN myself, but I'm getting tired of challenging every bit of antenna misinformation that shows up here. 73, Dave   AB7E On 3/17/2020 4:42 PM, Jim Brown wrote: On 3/17/2020 3:30 PM, Lyn Norstad wrote: One simple

Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna

2020-03-17 Thread Jim Brown
On 3/17/2020 3:30 PM, Lyn Norstad wrote: One simple post, Bob, and you've covered pretty much everything anyone needs to know about wire dipole-type antennas. NOT! While non-resonant dipoles are certainly viable transmitting antennas, there is FAR more to know about them, including: 1)

Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna

2020-03-17 Thread Lyn Norstad
Bingo! One simple post, Bob, and you've covered pretty much everything anyone needs to know about wire dipole-type antennas. This is exactly the process I worked thru in deciding to build mine last year, with one embellishment - and that was to fine tune the size (I had 400 feet to work with)

Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna

2020-03-17 Thread Lyn Norstad
Bingo! One simple post, Bob, and you've covered pretty much everything anyone needs to know about wire dipole-type antennas. This is exactly the process I worked thru in deciding to build mine last year, with one embellishment - and that was to fine tune the size (I had 400 feet to work with)

Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna

2020-03-17 Thread David Gilbert
No, your wallpaper notwithstanding, that statement is not true and it has been debunked many times. Dave   AB7E On 3/17/2020 12:42 PM, Dave New, N8SBE wrote: A 2-el quad performs at or better than a 3-el yagi at low heights above ground (35 vs 65 ft), and I have the wallpaper to prove it.

[Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna

2020-03-17 Thread Bob McGraw K4TAX
As discussed below, what ever you wish to call it, the antenna that is, being:   a G5RV, a double Zepp, an all band antenna, a center fed dipole and a few more brand names, the center fed dipole with with a balanced feed and a suitable balun can be matched on all bands, 160M - 6M with the

Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna

2020-03-17 Thread Dave New, N8SBE
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned MY favorite antenna(s): 1) A 2-el spider-boom quad at 40 ft., covering 20-6M (including the WARC bands): https://www.qsl.net/ei7ba/Cubical%20Quad.htm 2) A ZS6BKW dipole, which is 92 ft. long, includes a 40 ft. window line section, and then 75 ft. of

Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna

2020-03-16 Thread Jim Brown
Blank email. 73, Jim K9YC On 3/16/2020 2:37 PM, Dave New, N8SBE wrote: __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This

Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna

2020-03-16 Thread Dave Cole
https://www.qsl.net/4nec2/ Slightly different, but very usable and free... Also, it supports variables... Very nice antenna modeling for free... 73, and thanks, Dave (NK7Z) https://www.nk7z.net ARRL Volunteer Examiner ARRL Technical Specialist ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical

Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna

2020-03-16 Thread Tony Estep
On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 5:11 PM David Gilbert wrote: > > ...I model EVERYTHING > before I try to build it and I guarantee it has saved me hours of wasted > effort and lots of dollars of wasted money. I can also categorically > state that I have learned FAR more about antennas from modeling than

Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna

2020-03-16 Thread Dave New, N8SBE
__ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list:

Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna

2020-03-15 Thread David Gilbert
Well, I'm still under the impression that we are members of a knowledge-based hobby, and being willing to understand the basics of antennas seems like it fits that description.  It doesn't take years of study to understand the basics ... a bit of reading the ARRL Antenna Book and a couple

Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna

2020-03-15 Thread Bob McGraw K4TAX
Antenna fact:  If it stayed up in the last storm, either (a) it was well built and properly installed, or (b) it wasn't large enough. Thus, if it works to your satisfaction, then it is a good antenna. 73 Bob, K4TAX On 3/15/2020 2:37 PM, Edward R Cole wrote: OK, well one can study theory for

Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna

2020-03-15 Thread Edward R Cole
OK, well one can study theory for several years before deciding what antenna to use ... or just put up something and try it. My guess a quarter-wave vertical with some radials will work. How well? You will only find out by trying it. My favorite HF antenna has been the simple half-wave

Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna

2020-03-14 Thread john
There is a lot of antenna misinformation on this list. Your initial assumption is basically correct. A vertical does not have low angle radiation unless you have a perfect ground, it will then low pseudo-brewster angle which is very effective. A 1/2wl or higher 40m dipole is actually a

Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna

2020-03-14 Thread George Thornton
a 100 ft boom, erected on lines run between trees. -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net On Behalf Of Rick Bates, NK7I Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 12:02 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna Duane

Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna

2020-03-14 Thread Jim Brown
Right. 73, Jim K9YC On 3/14/2020 12:09 AM, David Gilbert wrote: There is some erroneous information here, as well as in Don W3FPR's post. Radials, whether buried or raised, only affect near field ground return currents.  You cannot improve ground conductivity beyond the radials, and the

Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna

2020-03-14 Thread David Gilbert
There is some erroneous information here, as well as in Don W3FPR's post. Radials, whether buried or raised, only affect near field ground return currents.  You cannot improve ground conductivity beyond the radials, and the strength of the low angle lobe is directly affected by the ground

Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna

2020-03-14 Thread Edward R Cole
As far as a vertical mounted on solid rock, ever heard of radials? Almost all analysis shows angle lowering by copious addition of radials to a vertical. I suggest You find the QEX articles written By Rudy-N6LF which studied radials thoroughly. Even with very short radials my 630m

Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna

2020-03-13 Thread Jim Brown
That's a bit oversimplified, Don, because of the very strong effect of soil conductivity and mounting height on the performance of a vertically polarized antenna. That's addressed in the app note I referenced earlier. http://k9yc.com/AntennaPlanning.pdf And this one.

Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna

2020-03-13 Thread Don Wilhelm
If I recall correctly, the original question in this thread was about the effectiveness of radials over rocky ground. We have gone far astray from that consideration. I am trying to bring it back to 'ground zero'. As I recall, the question was about a vertical whose feedpoint was above the

Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna

2020-03-13 Thread Jim Brown
On 3/13/2020 3:05 PM, Lyn Norstad wrote: Hi Lyn, IL is a state I know fairly well, having spent 41 years in Chicago and one in Cairo. I don't work nets like you do, but I do a lot of contesting, including 80 and 160M, and if you're paying attention, can teach a lot about propagation. I

[Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna

2020-03-13 Thread Bob McGraw K4TAX
be my first choice. 73 Lyn, W0LEN -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of David Gilbert Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 1:39 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion ab

Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna

2020-03-13 Thread David Gilbert
ssage- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of David Gilbert Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 1:39 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna That is certainly a perfectly viable antenna and pr

Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna

2020-03-13 Thread Lyn Norstad
, 2020 4:03 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna On 3/13/2020 12:49 PM, Lyn Norstad wrote: > I actually do consider 4.7 dbi as "far outperforming" 2.14 dbi (ordinary dipole). It depends on what you want to achieve. Th

Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna

2020-03-13 Thread Jim Brown
On 3/13/2020 12:49 PM, Lyn Norstad wrote: I actually do consider 4.7 dbi as "far outperforming" 2.14 dbi (ordinary dipole). It depends on what you want to achieve. The antenna you describe is a very old and well accepted design. It's like a beam with a fixed direction. No question that 2.6

Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna

2020-03-13 Thread Lyn Norstad
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of David Gilbert Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 1:39 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna That is certainly a perfectly viable antenna and pr

Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna

2020-03-13 Thread Rick Bates, NK7I
ace do you have available? 73 Lyn, W0LEN -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of bw...@fastmail.fm Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 10:38 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/sugges

Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna

2020-03-13 Thread David Gilbert
That is certainly a perfectly viable antenna and probably a fine choice for your needs ... but it does not "far outperform" either a dipole or especially a 2 element yagi at the same height. (although the yagi would of course be unidirectional).  4.7 dbi is dipole territory.  You could have

Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna

2020-03-13 Thread Lyn Norstad
M > To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Subject: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna > > From what I understand - solid rock below a raised vertical is not the best > option for performance. > With an underlying geography of many feet of solid metamorphic

Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna

2020-03-13 Thread Jim Brown
On 3/13/2020 9:31 AM, Lyn Norstad wrote: There are other wire antenna options that will far outperform a simple dipole, or for that matter a 2EL yagi. Yes, if you want directivity. But while dipoles are simple in concept, they are hard to beat if height is optimized.

Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna

2020-03-13 Thread bw_dw
t; > 73 > Lyn, W0LEN > > > -Original Message- > From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net > [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of bw...@fastmail.fm > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 10:38 AM > To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Subject: [Elecraft] Off-To

Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna

2020-03-13 Thread Lyn Norstad
...@fastmail.fm Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 10:38 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna >From what I understand - solid rock below a raised vertical is not the best option for performance. With an underlying geography of many f

[Elecraft] Off-Topic: Your advice/suggestion about antenna

2020-03-13 Thread bw_dw
>From what I understand - solid rock below a raised vertical is not the best >option for performance. With an underlying geography of many feet of solid metamorphic rock - that would probably rule out the low angle benefits of vertical antennas. Consequently, over the years, every 40m