Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Hi!
Guys, it's been two days and a flamewar, and still no constructive pointers?! You should feel ashamed for yourself! Hi Tobia! I hope this initial accidental flamewar wasn't too off-putting. We really should set up better exchange of patches between Shotwell and Photos one of these days, and work in the spirit of collaboration instead of... well, THAT. First thing you'd need is to familiarize yourself with Vala. Here are some links to get you started: https://live.gnome.org/Vala/Tutorial - the official tutorial, which is rather comprehensive https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Vala/ValaForJavaProgrammers and https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Vala/ValaForCSharpProgrammers might be handy if you're familiar with either Java or C#, since Vala resembles those languages (C# in particular) http://valadoc.org/ hosts documentation on most libraries, http://valadoc.elementaryos.org/ for documentation on elementary's in-house convenience library (only used in Photos). Sometimes we ship package versions different from those documented on valadoc.org; if in doubt, check /usr/share/vala/vapi/ locally for the definitive bindings. http://elementaryos.org/docs/code is a kickstart for Vala and contributing to elementary projects, and to some extent the GTK box model. I believe our guide still doesn't cover submitting patches, so refer to the old dev guide draft https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FHF4gXZfBZuOvDBuFPtJuCcaCyjSi-fpZ_-kWj6N4FA/edit#heading=h.o9ppeoo2c0qd for that instead. If you have any problems with understanding GTK, GNOME developer screencasts http://vimeo.com/25185245 can be of use, or just ask around. #elementary-dev on FreeNode is our development IRC channel, but it's not really populated by developers these days - we now use a more convenient but proprietary platform internally that (unfortunately) does not allow guest access. (Somebody please send an invite to our Slack to this guy!). For Photos, the project page is at https://launchpad.net/pantheon-photos (see elementary developer guide for handling those), and you should also check out elementary Human Interface Guidelines at http://elementaryos.org/docs/human-interface-guidelines if you're interested in contributing. Photos is largely about making Shotwell get out of your way and redesigning to so it can live up to elementary OS usability standards. Looking at the bug tracker, there's still quite some low-hanging fruit in the UI. This should be a good starting point since you'd learn GTK, Vala and talking to designers all at once :) I can't comment on contributing to Shotwell besides linking to https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Shotwell since I don't typically deal with it. Perhaps Jim will be willing to give some pointers. May the Source be with you! -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Translation Freeze?
Until that date, it'd be great if translators or perhaps a native English speaker too could look through our English strings and report all confusing or clunky ones. Most of elementary developers are not native English speakers or simply don't specialize in making up obvious UI strings, so we probably have quite a few issues with this. The most confusing strings I know is Keep music folder organized switch in Noise. Will that keep my music folder intact or for rearrange it based on metadata? I don't know! So translators, please report any strings that are confusing or missing context for translation, and we'll fix them or add comments for translators. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] (the indicators situation) XFCE next release approaching, they hope to port to gtk3 afterwards
Thanks for the info! I wonder if indicators themselves were ported to GTK3 though. Another suggestion I've heard recently is looking into MATE indicators. But this is all Freya+1 stuff so I'll investigate it only after Freya is released. If anyone's interested in the situation with indicators, I've detailed it here: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1439765#p1439765 -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Wayland plans? Here is a proof of concept compositor :)
Gys, please don't start a flamewar out of nowhere! Jose: Thanks for your proposal! Libmutter does indeed implement a Wayland compositor and it's the Glib equivalent of Qt's compositor module. Migration to Mir does not make sense for us because Mutter and even GTK are not natively supported by it, so we'll have to go with Wayland - it's pretty much our only option. However, I expect all our stuff and especially Gala to be shaken up for the Wayland migration, and I'd like to see a more radical redesign after the iterative Isis cycle. Among the things I'd really like to see implemented is this: https://docs.google.com/document/d/10W8udXK-fumvnFlyLG1G27iUWKnTcCa-ck09tO_OkdU/edit I'm not aware of anyone doing such things before, so that sounds like a fun ride to take part in! If you're interested, Vala is easier to use than C++, so you should be able to migrate in no time - especially given the fact that it compiles to C :) https://live.gnome.org/Vala/Tutorial and http://elementaryos.org/docs/code provide a good kick-start. Cheers, -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] elementary os Isis mock-up kit?
I believe your best bet is to take a vector screenshot and deconstruct it in Inkscape, see https://lists.launchpad.net/elementary-dev-community/msg01943.html 2014-05-14 10:09 GMT+04:00 Benoît Barberousse benoit.barberou...@gmail.com : There are some svg mock-up kits for Luna in the wild, I was wondering if anyone had a similar one for Luna-based apps ( i.e. header bars, etc)? -- Benoît Barberousse 872.800.7655 -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Elementary-dev-community] UGENT: Change your Launchpad passwords!
Hey guys, Launchpad SSL keys have been changed just now, so the connections to it should be no longer vulnerable, provided you have an up-to-date system. Please clear all cookies, log in to Launchpad again and change your passwords - it's possible that they have been leaked because of this bug! -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] URGENT: Update and change your SSH keys IMMEDIATELY
I've been over-reacting then. Sorry. 2014-04-08 21:33 GMT+04:00 Ramiro Algozino algoz...@gmail.com: GitHub just tweeted: @github https://twitter.com/github 32 min https://twitter.com/github/status/453578068255588352Another note regarding the OpenSSL vulnerability: SSH is not affected. You don't need to do anything with your SSH keys. Source: https://twitter.com/github/status/453578068255588352 Cheers, 2014-04-07 23:16 GMT-03:00 Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ser...@elementaryos.org: Since Launchpad itself is probably vulnerable, I strongly suggest everyone with code commit and/or PPA upload permissions to CLEAR ALL COOKIES and refrain from using Launchpad until https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1304136 is fixed. 2014-04-08 5:14 GMT+04:00 Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ser...@elementaryos.org: Oh yeah, right, don't forget to change your important passwords too! 2014-04-08 4:56 GMT+04:00 desideran...@rocketmail.com desideran...@rocketmail.com: SSH does not use TLS per se, so revoking ssh keys is not that useful Enviado desde Mail con Replicant -- * From: * victor-eduardo victoredua...@gmail.com; * To: * Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ser...@elementaryos.org; * Cc: * elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net; * Subject: * Re: [Elementary-dev-community] URGENT: Update and change your SSH keys IMMEDIATELY * Sent: * Tue, Apr 8, 2014 12:36:30 AM Thanks for the heads up! OpenSSL is flawed by design indeed :( On lun, abr 7, 2014 at 6:31 , Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ser...@elementaryos.org wrote: Also do not forget to revoke the older keys wherever they are used - Launchpad, etc. 2014-04-08 3:45 GMT+04:00 Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ser...@elementaryos.org: There's a killer bug in OpenSSL that leaks private keys! Update your system and change your SSH private keys (and other private keys for good measure) IMMEDIATELY! More info at http://heartbleed.com/ *runs off to upgrade all machines and change keys everywhere* -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ramiro Algozino http://ramiroalgozino.com.ar/ -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Elementary-dev-community] URGENT: Update and change your SSH keys IMMEDIATELY
There's a killer bug in OpenSSL that leaks private keys! Update your system and change your SSH private keys (and other private keys for good measure) IMMEDIATELY! More info at http://heartbleed.com/ *runs off to upgrade all machines and change keys everywhere* -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] URGENT: Update and change your SSH keys IMMEDIATELY
Oh yeah, right, don't forget to change your important passwords too! 2014-04-08 4:56 GMT+04:00 desideran...@rocketmail.com desideran...@rocketmail.com: SSH does not use TLS per se, so revoking ssh keys is not that useful Enviado desde Mail con Replicant -- * From: * victor-eduardo victoredua...@gmail.com; * To: * Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ser...@elementaryos.org; * Cc: * elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net; * Subject: * Re: [Elementary-dev-community] URGENT: Update and change your SSH keys IMMEDIATELY * Sent: * Tue, Apr 8, 2014 12:36:30 AM Thanks for the heads up! OpenSSL is flawed by design indeed :( On lun, abr 7, 2014 at 6:31 , Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ser...@elementaryos.org wrote: Also do not forget to revoke the older keys wherever they are used - Launchpad, etc. 2014-04-08 3:45 GMT+04:00 Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ser...@elementaryos.org: There's a killer bug in OpenSSL that leaks private keys! Update your system and change your SSH private keys (and other private keys for good measure) IMMEDIATELY! More info at http://heartbleed.com/ *runs off to upgrade all machines and change keys everywhere* -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] URGENT: Update and change your SSH keys IMMEDIATELY
Since Launchpad itself is probably vulnerable, I strongly suggest everyone with code commit and/or PPA upload permissions to CLEAR ALL COOKIES and refrain from using Launchpad until https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1304136 is fixed. 2014-04-08 5:14 GMT+04:00 Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ser...@elementaryos.org: Oh yeah, right, don't forget to change your important passwords too! 2014-04-08 4:56 GMT+04:00 desideran...@rocketmail.com desideran...@rocketmail.com: SSH does not use TLS per se, so revoking ssh keys is not that useful Enviado desde Mail con Replicant -- * From: * victor-eduardo victoredua...@gmail.com; * To: * Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ser...@elementaryos.org; * Cc: * elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net; * Subject: * Re: [Elementary-dev-community] URGENT: Update and change your SSH keys IMMEDIATELY * Sent: * Tue, Apr 8, 2014 12:36:30 AM Thanks for the heads up! OpenSSL is flawed by design indeed :( On lun, abr 7, 2014 at 6:31 , Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ser...@elementaryos.org wrote: Also do not forget to revoke the older keys wherever they are used - Launchpad, etc. 2014-04-08 3:45 GMT+04:00 Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ser...@elementaryos.org: There's a killer bug in OpenSSL that leaks private keys! Update your system and change your SSH private keys (and other private keys for good measure) IMMEDIATELY! More info at http://heartbleed.com/ *runs off to upgrade all machines and change keys everywhere* -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Elementary-dev-community] Fwd: Google+
Okay, where can I find an intro to 2014? We have a more or less defined workflow here, but I for one have no idea how G+ works and what it provides (any real-time conversations?). I made an honest attempt to get into G+ by myself, but all I get is this: http://i.imgur.com/nKI4Enq.png http://i.imgur.com/AemwVwF.png I have no idea what is all this stuff about and what to do with it. Also, once we flesh out the intro to G+ workflow, it might be a good idea to write that down in the website. At least I get How do I get involved? emails on a regular basis and that indicates that the website doesn't provide that info. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Fwd: Google+
Here's the elementary page: https://plus.google.com/114635553671833442612/ And here's its associated community: https://plus.google.com/communities/104613975513761463450 You mean there's no way to keep up with internal elementary posts without sifting through tons of weird unrelated clutter in https://plus.google.com/communities/104613975513761463450 ? I guess my real question is: after migrating to G+ what do you use instead of IRC's group chat? I have a basic idea of how to work in a group chat, but so far I can't even understand what did you ditch it for. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] foto 1.0
Uh, given the limited resources, it sounds like a good idea to only work on one app for Isis. But on the other hand I was secretly thinking to myself for years that Shotwell could use a rewrite. The app looks very nice so far. Ping me in IRC and we'll figure out automated crash submission and retracing for Foto - we wouldn't want crashes to go unnoticed, would we? -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Brave New Automated Scripts
REPORT YOUR CRASHES WE CAN HAS A RETRACER!!! (So I've packaged https://launchpad.net/%7Eshnatsel/+archive/minijailminijail and looks like we finally have the crash retracer running on a daily basis again!) Yay. Now on to more fixing and hardening. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Brave New Automated Scripts
I've received guidance from Martin Pitt and added multiarch retracing support to the retracer ( lp:~elementary-os/elementaryos/apport-retrace-elementary-wrapperhttps://code.launchpad.net/%7Eelementary-os/elementaryos/apport-retrace-elementary-wrapper ). Now - on to packaging minijail and running all this in isolated sandboxes as cronjobs on a server... -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Elementary-dev-community] Brave New Automated Scripts
Hey guys, As you probably know, for OS patches we rely on Launchpad recipes and a custom importer for Ubuntu packages to bzr branches because the official imports are often horribly outdated. Up to this point the importer required pristine Ubuntu installations to run and only worked for the same distro series as the host, so e.g. if we needed to import packages from precise we needed a precise machine, and a separate machine or chroot for trusty. After digging into apt configs and a day of coding I'm happy to announce that it is no longer the case. We now have a single script that runs apt in a sort of sandbox (look ma, no chroots!) and can import packages for any number of distros, regardless of the host. The code for the new importer and a changelog can be found at lp:ubuntu-package-importshttps://code.launchpad.net/%7Eelementary-os/ubuntu-package-imports/apt-to-bzr-importer-2.0. I've updated the documentation on automated taskshttps://docs.google.com/document/d/16bUZqrSudlVt7Z7gAafS15U-ZlmvhdSMpLEL1wcatGg/edit?usp=sharingaccordingly. I've also been hacking away at our Apport (crash reporting) setup. The static configurationhttps://code.launchpad.net/~elementary-os/elementaryos/apport-retrace-sandboxhas become unmaintainable at our scale so I've written a script that automatically generates it given the names of the LP teams whose PPAs should be included. That also happened to simplify the process for whoever runs it. The source code and a README can be found at lp:~elementary-os/elementaryos/apport-retrace-elementary-wrapperhttps://code.launchpad.net/%7Eelementary-os/elementaryos/apport-retrace-elementary-wrapper; the documentation on automated tasks is already updated. I've also looked into retracing both i386 and amd64 (and hopefully armhf) crashes on one machine without chroots or (omg!) VMs. Turns out Apport supports it, but only for Ubuntu itself. I'm now in touch with Martin Pitt, the awesome Apport (and PyGI!) developer, to figure out how to use that for non-Ubuntu packages. Thanks for reading! -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Brave New Automated Scripts
I forgot the most important thing: the package importer configs for both precise and trusty are now in the same branch, lp:ubuntu-package-imports/elementary-import-listshttps://code.launchpad.net/%7Eelementary-os/ubuntu-package-imports/elementary-import-lists So please use that one instead of the old per-distro branches from now on. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Porting to Debian as GSoC project
Just a quick update: Debian developer Paul Tagliamonte took great interested in the idea and matched me with a mentor, so we now have a mentor for the project! I've applied for the project as a student. Fingers crossed... -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Replace libnotify
At a glance, this is much more limited than libnotify which implements the notification standard in full: https://developer.gnome.org/notification-spec/ I can't see any advantages that would make us migrate to it. Especially right now, when we have to ship a stable release in like two months. 2014-03-11 0:35 GMT+04:00 Corentin Noël tin...@mailoo.org: Hi all, I found this information today : https://developer.gnome.org/GNotification/ and as Trusty does ship glib 2.39 with this functions, I think It would be better for every app using libnotify to switch to GLib native notification system. Any idea/comment/approval about this ? Have a nice week, Corentin tintou Noël -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Porting to Debian as GSoC project
I showed interest as a student but I could not find a mentor. There are people interested in getting this done but they're too busy as it is. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Porting to Debian as GSoC project
Rico Tzschichholz (ricotz) and Devid Antonio Filoni (devfil) are the only Debian maintainers who have been involved in elementary AFAIK. I don't know where to look up whether they're Debian *developers* or not. As for the student to perform that, I could undertake this task. It'd be nice to finally get out of the shady PPA stade and up to the Debian standards. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Porting to Debian as GSoC project
2014-02-26 10:15 GMT+04:00 Buyongo Phiri devicehand...@gmail.com: Hi guys, I have been lingering in the background for a while now. I like Elementary and I'm curious on what it would take to become a maintainer. What skillset is required for such a task? Buyongo, the GSoC idea page already lists the required skills: https://wiki.debian.org/SummerOfCode2014/ProjectProposals/PackageElementarySoftware -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Porting to Debian as GSoC project
2014-02-26 13:13 GMT+04:00 Pim Vullers p...@vullersmail.nl: This would also be interesting for other ports of elementary as this would loosen the dependencies on ubuntu components or at least make these dependencies more explicit. I guess you already know everything there is to know about Ubuntu-specific dependencies, so why don't we team up and document that regardless of GSoC? We've already tried doing that but apparently that was too early. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Elementary-dev-community] We're now on gee-0.8 (AKA Let the build failures begin!)
Hey guys, So I got sick of waiting and merged gee-0.8 conversion branch into Granite, all the outstanding gee-0.8 conversion merge requests listed in https://bugs.launchpad.net/granite/+bug/1270091 In addition I made all relevant daily build recipes Trusty-only, as per Rico's advice. This change should fix builds for everything that's been converted to gee-0.8 prior to Granite (e.g. Scratch) and break builds for everything still dependent on the deprecated gee-1.0 since it cannot co-exist with gee-0.8 in one project. If you get weird `Gee' already contains a definition for X errors, you should switch to gee-0.8. I think I might have broken daily builds for Wingpanel since I don't understand the situation with its branches - it's lp:wingpanel/0.3.xhttps://code.launchpad.net/%7Eelementary-pantheon/wingpanel/0.3.xthat builds to PPA but I've merged the branch to development focus, i.e. lp:wingpanelhttps://code.launchpad.net/%7Eelementary-pantheon/wingpanel/trunkwhich only has a disabled recipe for Luna. So which branch should I have merged this Trusty-only code in? -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] What's up with Pantheon Notify?
2014-02-21 20:51 GMT+04:00 Tom Beckmann tomjon...@gmail.com: Yes, the plan is to make it a plugin, however I'm not sure whether the design that is currently implemented is the one we were going to go with. Last time I checked this document was the pinnacle of Dan's, mine, and probably other people's efforts: https://docs.google.com/document/d/14ThRy7wwGrlpD0EGvI970fn4NsiQJq4vLgb16oZv-Yk/edit# At least I think I remember discussions about a new super awesome design which will make everything better and somehow incorporate some sort of notification center. But I'm not sure if we're still going for this. I haven't seen any designs for this direction so far. Dan, could you comment on this? (Also, Y U NO visit IRC?) Last time I checked the whole notification center concept was not highly regarded around here because 1) It's painful to see how Android users cursed with a notification center scroll through their entire social networks dump just to check if a specific event has occurred 2) It's not the notifications but action items you don't want to miss, so we're better off with showing the number of action items in the dock badge -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Elementary-dev-community] Developer documentation (was: Google Summer of Code Ideas)
Hey guys, So I've checked out the current documentation in the website again and turns out it's quite useless. In addition to all the flaws I've already listed (quoted below for your convenience), it has no intro to Granite.Application or our widgets - in fact, it doesn't even mention Granite! All we have there is a Vala/GTK3 hello world. Is that *really*the intended content? I know Dan was not fond of the older dev guide draft ( http://tiny.cc/dev-guide-draft) but it, despite its many flaws, at least it had actual useful content! I'm afraid we're taking the don't do anything to not make any mistakes approach here, except we make mistakes anyway. Are we going to do something about this maybe? 2014-02-19 18:31 GMT+04:00 Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ser...@elementaryos.org: In the dev guide we should at least link to http://valadoc.elementaryos.org/granite/index.htm for API reference, link to Vala tutorial https://live.gnome.org/Vala/Tutorial and migrationhttps://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Vala/ValaForJavaProgrammers guides https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Vala/ValaForCSharpProgrammers, and to some GTK+ tutorial (GNOME developer screencasts?). We're also missing documentation on libswitchboard and Contractor; creation of Switchboard plugs via libpantheon is kinda sorta documented, but we've ditched that for libswitchboard and there are no docs on that in the website. Gotta fix that. Finally, we have Contractor; we used to have .contract file format documentation in the old website but it's now gone. The Granite wrapper API is *sort of* documented in the Granite valadoc, but the version in the website is pre-0.2.2 and doesn't include some useful 0.2.2+ symbols. The D-bus API is documented in Contractor specificationhttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ijsc57vYEHBZxVdM0fRgCuBX2NbdRDv1kuOj0OG75v4/edit?usp=sharingonly, which is obscure and nobody will ever find. I have example code for both the Vala wrapper and raw API in https://code.launchpad.net/~elementary-pantheon/contractor/contractor-clibut that's a very obscure location too. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] What's up with Pantheon Notify?
I see Gala is about to get plugins support! https://code.launchpad.net/~gala-dev/gala/plugins/+merge/199323 This is interesting, I wonder if notifications could be implemented as a plugin. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Google Summer of Code Ideas
2014-02-20 17:18 GMT+04:00 Pepijn de Vos pepijnde...@gmail.com: It would be a huge help to have bugs labeled as easy and/or having a mentor available. See Mozilla for an example: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Introduction Actually, we at least used to have something similar - the easy bugs and the ones good for starters were labeled bitesize. It seems we still have 42 such bugs open, see https://bugs.launchpad.net/elementary/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize If this is not documented in the get involved page, that should be fixed as well. Also IMHO we should link to get involved from the developer guide and note that working on existing apps is preferable over making yet more of them. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Isis Beta1
2014-02-02 7:41 GMT+04:00 Cameron Norman camerontnor...@gmail.com: It looks like at the Isis meeting, you guys decided against Tent integration (at least for the time being). Should that blueprinthttps://blueprints.launchpad.net/elementaryos/+spec/tent-integrationnot be untargeted for beta1 (and Isis completely)? I've untargeted the blueprint from Isis, this is not a realistic goal for it. That said, I don't understand how is Tent support would be different from existing syncshare services like Dropbox or Ubuntu One, and how would the user experience differ from those. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Elementary-dev-community] What's up with Pantheon Notify?
Hey guys, I've noticed we still use Ubuntu's notify-osd in Isis builds. What happened to pantheon-notify? It was my favorite change scheduled for Isis, because notify-osd is pretty broken UX-wise. Last time I checked the standalone implementation was abandoned and the code integrated in Gala to avoid the window management mess that created. There was also unofficial notification log feature sprinkled on top, instead of which dock badges will be used. That still lives in a separate branch somewhere, as far as I can tell. Was there any progress on this recently? Is pantheon-notify still a goal for Isis? -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Elementary-dev-community] Fwd: Google Summer of Code Ideas
2014-02-19 3:33 GMT+04:00 marco benzi marco.be...@alumnos.usm.cl: If you could make a list I'd be more than happy to help! Marco - Please use reply to all next time, the message didn't go to the list. We have an all-encompassing wishlist at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wFTYGaP9RR5JwT4qQfix84-TfeFaDNX9iFviVtuCAi4/edit But for a start we need to improve the current developer documentation: In the dev guide we should at least link to http://valadoc.elementaryos.org/granite/index.htm for API reference, link to Vala tutorial https://live.gnome.org/Vala/Tutorial and migrationhttps://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Vala/ValaForJavaProgrammers guides https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Vala/ValaForCSharpProgrammers, and to some GTK+ tutorial (GNOME developer screencasts?). We're also missing documentation on libswitchboard and Contractor; creation of Switchboard plugs via libpantheon is kinda sorta documented, but we've ditched that for libswitchboard and there are no docs on that in the website. Gotta fix that. Finally, we have Contractor; we used to have .contract file format documentation in the old website but it's now gone. The Granite wrapper API is *sort of* documented in the Granite valadoc, but the version in the website is pre-0.2.2 and doesn't include some useful 0.2.2+ symbols. The D-bus API is documented in Contractor specificationhttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ijsc57vYEHBZxVdM0fRgCuBX2NbdRDv1kuOj0OG75v4/edit?usp=sharingonly, which is obscure and nobody will ever find. I have example code for both the Vala wrapper and raw API in https://code.launchpad.net/~elementary-pantheon/contractor/contractor-clibut that's a very obscure location too. And we have no UX guidelines for Contractor written, but that's a task for the design team. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Google Summer of Code Ideas
2014-02-19 18:32 GMT+04:00 Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ser...@elementaryos.org: Finally, we have Contractor; we used to have .contract file format documentation in the old website but it's now gone. The Granite wrapper API is *sort of* documented in the Granite valadoc, but the version in the website is pre-0.2.2 and doesn't include some useful 0.2.2+ symbols. Actually they're probably not 0.2.2+, they're 0.2.3+, I have no idea why though. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Google Summer of Code Ideas
We're missing a ton of other docs in the website too, but you know how it goes - writing docs is boring and everybody has better things to do. -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Google Summer of Code Ideas
Well, there's a number of visual programming environments out there already and I can't see how this relates to elementary specifically. It's more of a project for the Raspberry Pi community. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Google Summer of Code Ideas
FYI we already have a time machine application, Cronopete. The interesting work items for it are 1) btrfs snapshots or even old copy-on-write versions of files outside of snapshots as storage medium, instead of a dedicated partition and 2) Integration into applications, much like for Contractor clients -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Anyone coming to FOSDEM 2014?
2014-02-05 Tristan Petersen trista...@me.com: Very nice! I have been looking into firefox OS myself. I'd love to use a phone that has open source as its base. Have you looked into Jolla's Sailfish? They haven't released the UI code yet but they are very open-source-friendly and upstream all their contributions in the respective projects, mostly Mer and Nemo. The UI will probably be open-sourced later on. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] elementary, ubuntu, and debian
Tristan, it's not that simple and fact is, Debian or even the upstream projects are unlikely to be NSA-proof. You should really watch the recording of NSA operation ORCHESTRA keynote from FOSDEM as soon as it's uploaded. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Anyone coming to FOSDEM 2014?
Okay, it's there and back again! I've just arrived home, got only 1 hour of sleep on the plane, so take everything I say in the next 18 hours with a grain of salt. FOSDEM was tons of fun! I've kicked it off by donating to GNOME - Hey guys, I'm from elementary, we need you to keep up the good work on the libraries!, to Libre Graphics Magazine - Oh, you're from elementary? You guys have some great designers! (btw, great magazine, I definitely recommend it to everyone in here who's interested in design), to TOR just to get an awesome Snowden posterhttp://www.redbubble.com/people/libertymaniacs/works/10584039-edward-snowden-i-want-you, and finally running into a guy from Jolla totally by accident, finding out the Jollla schedule for the day and then sieging him with questions - Y U NO ship to Russia?! and so on. I really look up to the ex-Nokia developers and designers who went on to found Jolla - Maemo was a-w-e-s-o-m-e and Sailfish is going to be even better! So I proceeded to attend their talk about libhybris and then their community roundtable (it seems my experience making distros and poking security has come in handy) and finally a community dinner, whee! Now I know everything I ever wanted about their phone, even got to play with one for a while. Also chatted with the developers (my N900 caused quite some nostalgia), plus I got a free hat with Jolla on it. Fanboy's dream come true, that! I kinda missed having an elementary tee, I guess I should have ordered one in advance. No instant props out of nowhere! Looking back, I don't think I ever did anything not worthy of a representative of the project (for once!), so hopefully next year... Too bad nobody else of ours made it there - or just never told me? I'd love to meet you guys in person. In your absence I had to hit up random Mozilla guys and discussing fun stuff like Rust and Serval. When I could find them, anyway :( And man, the talks! There were just so many of them! I'll be watching the ones I missed later on the recordings http://video.fosdem.org/ for sure. No way you can attend all the interesting ones in just two days. For the security- and privacy-concerned like me I especially recommend the NSA operation ORCHESTRA keynote, it's great. Software archeology also, for the general audience. And What's cooking in GStreamer will be interesting to people who work with it. By the way, Brussels itself is very nice - amazing sculptures everywhere! A lot of lions among them, too. The royal square alone can be studied for hours. Definitely recommended. -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Anyone coming to FOSDEM 2014?
Oh, I also got to toy with ZTE OPEN running Firefox OS. That thing is impressive for its specs. Can't wait till Firefox OS hits the local market, Android monopoly on low-end smartphones where it performs even worse than usual is upsetting. -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Sample contractor client
2014-01-30 Heath Paddock he...@heath-bar.com: Does this require libgranite2? Yes, it does. This is one of the two new symbols I added a while ago; I'm not sure why they're exclusive to libgranite2 - they're just additions, not breaks - but looks like they are. Oh well. libgranite2 should be available on Luna from Daily PPA (or maybe not anymore - Cody was looking to delete them). If you can't get your hands on libgranite2... The required function is trivial, so you can copy-paste it from http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~elementary-pantheon/granite/granite/view/head:/lib/Services/ContractorProxy.vala#L227and toy with the example on libgranite1. Also, the compile line in the comments section at the top of the file uses the wrong file name. I'll fix that and add a note about libgranite2 momentarily. On very recent distros it may require gee-0.8 also instead of gee-1.0. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Elementary-dev-community] Sample contractor client
Hey guys, I've noticed we have no example for using the Contractor API via Granite wrapper, so I've hacked one together. It's a simple command-line utility written in Vala. The source code is BSD-licensed and can be found at https://code.launchpad.net/~elementary-pantheon/contractor/contractor-cli It has no build system as of yet; I'm not sure if it needs one because it's just an example and not something useful in real life. The compilation is just one valac line anyway. I hope this lowers the entry barrier for Contractor adoption. Cheers, -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Anyone coming to FOSDEM 2014?
Hey guys, Just a quick update - looks like I won't be giving a talk after all. There were almost 3 times more applications than slots this year, but I was oblivious to that and never bothered pitching my talk. Le sigh. But I've already bought plane tickets and it's too late to back out, so I'll be attending it anyway if I get the visa. Looking forward to meeting you guys! -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Wingpanel and Indicators, future?
Having indicators post the UI over D-bus and let anything draw them is actually a pretty good idea, though I dislike the current dbusmenu + libido implementation - it's really hacky. It will allow embedding indicators in application titlebars in maximized or fullscreen state - I recall Cassidy mentioning such an idea, is it still pursued? I doubt indicators will force Upstart dependency on us. Upstart is not a huge interdependent mess like systemd, it's just a way to start things up on demand. We have Cerbere to substitute it on non-ubuntu platforms. Also, some indicator backends are really complex, and I'd rather not reinvent the wheel yet again... and the same goes for plugs, by the way. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] GTK 3.10 has landed
HAIL RICOTZ!!! 2013/11/27 Cody Garver c...@elementaryos.org Rico did the heavy lifting, all hail ricotz On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 11:58 AM, teemperor teempe...@gmail.com wrote: Wooho, cody saves the day :) Am Mi, 27. Nov, 2013 um 6:57 ,Daniel Foré dan...@elementaryos.org schrieb: Yo yo yo, dev homies Cody just produced new ISOs that contain GTK 3.10! Most of you probably know what all that entails, so I won't waste your time. But let it be known that we can take advantage of all that goodness in Isis! — Sent from Mailbox https://www.dropbox.com/mailbox for iPhone -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Cody Garver -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Saving and restoring app sessions
In addition to the client-side mechanism I described above, here's another facility that may be of interest, called Checkpoint-Restore: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=home -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] The elementary documentation weekend!
I know of one item I'd really like to see documented because I don't understand it without docs. It's our CMake commands and config options. I never knew some projects have make valadocs command and nobody seems to know why it fails and what dependencies it's missing. It'd also be nice to include -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Debug and related generic trickery in the guide. Regarding the HIG, it'd be nice to include code examples/templates implementing the guidelines, where applicable. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Python API for panel applets?
Slingshot is not an actual indicator, it's just pretending. Ubuntu have intentionally limited application indicators to menus only to force some degree of consistency on them. In time it has backfired and now Canonical have come up with a library that provides hacks to get arbitrary widgets into their intentionally constrained menus. The better idea would be to write a system indicator as opposed to application indicator. You'd be able to use any GTK widget there. I'm not sure what kind of embedding is used there, I haven't seen any docs on them, but I suspect you'll need Vala or C for that, and we strongly prefer Vala. However, it might be better to check your vision with the design team first. We're moving away from non-system-wide indicators. Also, we need some system indicators customized ( http://elementaryos.deviantart.com/gallery/37412343), getting that done would be stellar. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Saving and restoring app sessions
Also I'm not sure that saving state is a good idea for Switchboard in the first place, let alone a realistic one. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] This might be a farewell
2013/9/26 Cody Garver c...@elementaryos.org http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rule_of_Two Thanks, I'll be on the lookout for murder attempts from my apprentice. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Elementary-dev-community] GStreamer 1.2
Hey guys, GStreamer 1.2 has been released a few days ago. It is a feature release, and there some API additions that might interest us, in particular: • GL texture upload conversion meta for allowing different buffer types to be converted to an OpenGL texture • The stream-start even has an optional group-id field now to signal all streams that should be played together • GstVideoDecoder/Encoder has new ::flush() vfunc to replace the ill-defined ::reset() vfunc. • The URI query allows to query the redirected URI now. I expect the first two items to be useful for Audience. Grouping streams should greatly simplify supporting e.g. external soundtrack files ( https://bugs.launchpad.net/audience/+bug/905307). The full release announcements can be found here: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/gstreamer-devel/2013-September/043124.html Make sure to at least skim the Things to look out for section of it. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Bake Build System
There are a lot of build system out there. This one seems cool and clean but it's probably too bleeding edge. I suggest you to take a look at waf. Lots of project are switching to it. We've been through WAF already. Oh, what a nightmare it was! WAF is very basic and doesn't have even gettext support, so you have to write that yourself in Python. As your project evolves, you need more and more custom handling because WAF is so very primitive and your build system ends up being a bunch of entirely custom Python scripts. Not only reimplementing the whole build system in Python for every project is pointlessly time-consuming, but it also means that you have as many build systems as there are project maintainers evolving in parallel with little to no code sharing. So each project has to go through the same pitfalls instead of just using collaboratively-written time-proven shared code. E. Oh, and custom WAF-based build system also means that distributors have no idea how to work with it. Each project requires entirely custom handling. So your project can't be packaged by an average maintainer because the distribution's helper scripts won't work with it. You need a guru who *wrote * the helper scripts just to package your project. So, been there, done that, not going to return. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Bake Build System
Julien, thanks for stepping up to investigate Bake. It had to be done :) I believe migrating to Bake would be very beneficial since it lowers the entry barrier and lets developers focus on code. I'd like to hear from developers on the matter, though. I do have some gripes with the current state of Bake (e.g. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bake/+bug/1225637), but does look eaier and better suted for most of our use cases than CMake even in its current form. Off the top of my head, its built-in .deb package generation is very basic and incomplete, just like CMake's one. In other words, it will always be incomplete and buggy if Bake continues to try to do it on its own. It should instead call upon debhelper that will do the heavy lifting. It seems the work on this is already started: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bake/+bug/1117755 But we can properly package Bake-powered apps and make daily builds of them with waaay less hacks than it would be required for e.g. WAF even until debhelper support is added. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Bake Build System
2013/9/15 Julien spautz.jul...@gmail.com sudo apt-get install maki I wonder if you can declare runtime dependencies in Bake, such as Maki in this case. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Gtk.Stock has been deprecated
I've run a recursive search for stock on all 114 branches owned by ~elementary-apps and ~elementary-pantheon so that you don't have to check them one by one. Here are the results: http://pastebin.com/mU7nQyu6 Here's the script that performs the search, shall you need to run it on another huge list of branches: http://pastebin.com/YpDb24yn If you need to search through just one directory, just run $ grep -ir stock /path/to/directory although the search I ran should get most projects covered. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] New switchboard plugin
If not, I will try to upload it into the Ubuntu store because an easy (and free) disks formatting tool is missing right now. Doesn't Ubuntu ship GNOME Disk Utility aka Palimpsest by default? I'm sure it used to. IMHO the plug looks good already and it'd be nice to have in the default installation. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] In case you need GNOME 3.10
ricotz shnatsel, all distributor patches are ported, with an exception of an ubuntu specific gtk patch ubuntu_gtk_custom_menu_items.patch -- https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/+bug/1039476 2013/9/12 Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ser...@elementaryos.org Hey guys, In case you need GNOME 3.10 on Ubuntu Saucy (13.10), there is a semi-official PPA with GNOME 3.10 components that are considered stable. See http://www.webupd8.org/2013/09/new-gnome-310-ppa-announced-for-ubuntu.htmlfor more info. Keep in mind that the state of those packages does not necessarily reflect the state of GNOME 3.10 in the forthcoming Ubuntu 14.04, because it's not clear if the PPA packages carry the usual Debian and Ubuntu distributor-level patches. Happy hacking! -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Elementary-dev-community] In case you need GNOME 3.10
Hey guys, In case you need GNOME 3.10 on Ubuntu Saucy (13.10), there is a semi-official PPA with GNOME 3.10 components that are considered stable. See http://www.webupd8.org/2013/09/new-gnome-310-ppa-announced-for-ubuntu.htmlfor more info. Keep in mind that the state of those packages does not necessarily reflect the state of GNOME 3.10 in the forthcoming Ubuntu 14.04, because it's not clear if the PPA packages carry the usual Debian and Ubuntu distributor-level patches. Happy hacking! -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Isis Planning
2013/9/3 Andrea Basso voluntatefa...@gmail.com However intriguing discussing these points may be, they're really are *too* many, we should probably split then up in more meetings or hours later we could still be hallway through. This is probably true, so I encourage everyone to comment on the agenda doc and read existing comments on it before the meeting to save time. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Isis Planning
2013/9/5 Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ser...@elementaryos.org 2013/9/3 Andrea Basso voluntatefa...@gmail.com However intriguing discussing these points may be, they're really are *too* many, we should probably split then up in more meetings or hours later we could still be hallway through. This is probably true, so I encourage everyone to comment on the agenda doc and read existing comments on it before the meeting to save time. In fact, please please please do it because many items on the agenda require some research for which we don't have the time during the meeting. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] about TDD (Test Driven Development)
We don't write backends so we shouldn't have anything to unit test. By far the most of the code we write deals with GUI and thus should be tested using Autopilot. Even if we do have something to *unit* test, the added complexity, higher entry barrier and the time spent writing first the unit testing framework and then the tests is unlikely to pay off. If you disagree with the above, you're welcome to prove me wrong though. 200+ messages to mailing list have not convinced any of the core devs so far. You might have better luck convincing people if you come up with a unit testing framework, cover an app with unit tests (if you manage to find something to *unit* test in the first place) and demonstrate that it really actually saves time in a real-life scenario. But I expect simply helping us figure out Autopilot and write UI-driven tests to be much more productive. Either way, the choice is yours. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] about TDD (Test Driven Development)
Please make your energy useful in more useful ways Dear TTD proponents, while you keep spending lots of time on writing these mails and the time of all the other devs on reading them, ~alourie is looking into Autopilot and experimenting with writing tests using it. I encourage you to follow his example. Please stop wasting everyone's time and go read Autopilot tutorialhttp://unity.ubuntu.com/autopilot/tutorial/tutorial.htmland write some tests instead of emails. You can find existing tests for GTK apps herehttps://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-testcase/ubuntu-autopilot-tests/trunkshall you need them. You can meet ~alourie in #elementary-dev if you want to catch up with what he's found so far. He's online most of the time, just keep in mind he's in GMT+4 timezone. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Elementary-dev-community] On compiler warnings
Hey guys, I've had a look at what our programs output at build time, and turns out the build output consists of a mix of from gcc and valac warnings, so it's hard to make out which error comes from which compiler. To make matters worse, the build output is dominated by Building some_long_filename -with -a -terribly -long -list -of -parameters lines that successfully obscure any kind of warnings. It seems you have to look really hard to see any useful compiler warnings. Obviously, this is not how compiler warnings to be presented to be useful. Is there any way to separate the warnings from the progress messages and print it, say, in the end of the build process? I believe this would enhance readability immensely. I hear that GCC warnings can be safely ignored in Vala programs, but I couldn't google up ay prooflinks on that point. Does anybody have any insight on this point? FYI, GCC warnings (as opposed to valac ones) seem to make up more than half of warnings in many of our projects. If they can be safely ignored, perhaps it's a good idea to suppress them in CMake. If GCC warnings are actually important, it could help if we separated them from valac ones. Thoughts? -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Luna on ARM
2013/8/28 Albert Palacios Jimenez optimi...@gmail.com How can we test it? I want to run Luna on Raspberry and document it, can I install Raspbian and then add the elementary ppa? Somewhat. Not directly, because Raspberry Pi CPU has a very old instruction set, which is not supported by Ubuntu. However, you can still add the PPA and build the packages from source using tools like apt-build, that should work for any architecture thanks to Vala and Glib. I suspect that compilation is going to take several days on the Pi, so you might prefer to use cross-compilation on x86 or an emulated chroot on x86 using https://wiki.debian.org/QemuUserEmulation, along the lines of https://wiki.debian.org/ArmHardFloatChroot except you need ARMv4 for the Pi. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] [Merge] lp:~elementary-dev-community/wingpanel/bug-fix-1007630 into lp:wingpanel
How, o how many times shall I tell you to use elementary-test-merge for reproducible builds and testing, instead of doing everything manually? Are you not bored to do the download-compile-run cycles manually yet? sudo apt-get install elementary-testing-scripts elementary-test-merge https://code.launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community/wingpanel/bug-fix-1007630/+merge/181999 And it compiles and installs. Please don't bother doing all this manually. -- https://code.launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community/wingpanel/bug-fix-1007630/+merge/181999 Your team elementary Developer Community is subscribed to branch lp:~elementary-dev-community/wingpanel/bug-fix-1007630. -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] [Merge] lp:~elementary-dev-community/wingpanel/bug-fix-1007630 into lp:wingpanel
It does fix the bug for me. -- https://code.launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community/wingpanel/bug-fix-1007630/+merge/181999 Your team elementary Developer Community is subscribed to branch lp:~elementary-dev-community/wingpanel/bug-fix-1007630. -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Elementary-dev-community] Luna on ARM
Hey guys, Just a heads-up regarding ARM support in Luna: our stable PPA got armhf enablement recently and everything (except Pantheon Greeter, see https://bugs.launchpad.net/pantheon-greeter/+bug/1214833) should run fine on ARM, at least in theory. You'd need decent GPU drivers though, because Gala requires hardware acceleration, and software rendering on ARM is in a pitiful state. However, our OS-specific patches repository did not get ARM enablement, and it's unlikely to get it anytime soon because we patched some really heavyweight things like Qt, which take way more time to build than Canonical's armhf enablement conditions require. This means we can't make OS images for ARM, but you can still install the apps on an existing Ubuntu installation. You'll miss out on the leaner and faster core, which is a pity (and doubly so on a resource-constrained system), but at least there's a chance of finding an OS image that works for your ARM hardware in case of Ubuntu and almost no chance for any other distro. Enthusiasts can still build ARM images by themselves if they have the hardware to run the build process or if they know their way around QEMU chroots (along the lines of https://wiki.debian.org/ArmHardFloatChroot and https://wiki.debian.org/QemuUserEmulation but for Ubuntu). They'd have to use something like apt-build to update to later versions of our patched packages, but such updates will probably be rare and all in all it should work. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Luna +1's Name and Some Other Stuff
Yay, bike shedding! Wait for me! AFAIR the original plan was to use gods from the same pantheon for any given series, Roman for the 0.x series specifically, hence the name of the DE - Pantheon. So I looked for suitable Roman deities and I think I've found a great one. Continuing the trend, she's a Roman deity and has a celestial body in the Solar system named after her. What's more, according to a myth that was very widespread in late antiquity, she eventually moved to Egypt and became Isis! Behold Io! The Roman Isis that comes with a celestial body and a domain name hack! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Io_%28mythology%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Io_%28moon%29 By the way, turns out http://elementary.io is already registered by Cassidy and currently redirects to elementaryos.org, so I feel like this was the plan all along. As for development, we have ~8 months till release, so this is going to be an iterative cycle. We're obviously not going for Wayland or Mir or anything equally new and fancy because that technology is not yet baked and will not be on par with the time-proven base by 14.04. It does look like we'll have another huge migration on our hands after that, though. So I'd probably start off by getting rid of all the technical debt we might have accumulated in the race to release and getting some tools to manage the increased complexity we're facing, e.g. unifying the way CMake works, providing better code documentation, adding some automated testing, etc. Next, since we're making an iterative cycle, I'd stop acting and start reacting. Like, make a list of things that people have trouble with in Luna and fix them. I have compiled an [incomplete] list of gripes people seem to have with Luna. Maybe we should run some user testing and see what causes issues? We can't afford organized user testing, but we could reach out to the community - say, provide people with testing methodology and ask people who spread elementary OS to carry out the testing and send in the results. Like run a user testing sprint to identify the issues the target audience has, and fix them. Sounds like a plan! Long live Io! -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Luna +1's Name and Some Other Stuff
Oh God, this is turning into yet another TTD thread! Please, keep the TTD holywar out of here. You have your own cozy thread just for that. Three of them, in fact. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Future of Wingpanel
2013/8/14 Akshay Shekher voldyman...@gmail.com I wanted to talk about the features to be added in wingpanel for L+1. the blueprints that i have in mind are. 1. Hide on Maximizehttps://blueprints.launchpad.net/wingpanel/+spec/hide-on-maximize 2. Branch Ayatanahttps://blueprints.launchpad.net/wingpanel/+spec/branch-ayatana *Hide on maximize* is easy. we just have to add a d-bus signal to gala which will be triggered when a window is maximized, wingpanel will connect to this signal when launched and whenever an event is triggered wingpanel will hide. for hiding i was thinking of using clutter animations or something similar. This is easy to code but hard to design. I'm not sure it's a good idea because it could block the close/unmaximize buttons. There also was talk of including some of the indicators into the titlebar (e.g. sound volume for Audience, network and sound volume for Midori, etc), but the doom of the titlebar is uncertain. *Branch Ayatana*: this was discussed earlier but no decision was made, we could use libpeas to make indicators as plugins. This is easy and good reliable indicator/plugins can be made but this creates problems for applications that want to show indicators, as for wingpanel to show an indicator a plug would have to be made and it would need to enabled from dconf. There are many ways to solve this problem. 1. use two libraries. one for system indicators and one for app indicators 2. use something similar to switchboard's plugins system. 3. don't allow application indicators. (which i think gnome follows) As far as application indicators go, I like the plug to support AppIndicators approach. Such things are already done for GNOME2, XFCE and maybe LXDE panels. I'm inclined to think that we don't need application indicators at all, because the dock already gives us everything an indicator would. We just have to be able to keep the app icon in the dock and we're good. My design for such things was implemented in Noise and Birdie, although Noise used minimizing to keep itself in dock which was ultimately reverted. If I'm right on this one, we can just keep support for application indicators in a system indicator (plug) or behind conditional compilation, for compatibility with e.g. Dropbox on Ubuntu but avoiding a hard dependency on Ayatana libraries at the same time. If I'm wrong, i.e. it make sense to adopt application indicators in our design, then we can just make another system indicator to house GtkStatusIcon indicators and call the problem solved - we'd support both existing indicator APIs in that case. It's not that simple with system indicators though. Last time I checked the problem with using Ayatana for *system* indicators was that it's a complex and poorly documented process, to the point when Canonical themselves use app indicator API for system indicators just to keep it simpler, and this messes things up. Patching Ubuntu system indicators to look okay is also a PITA because it's a moving target and the indicators are written in C which is a bit too low-level for such things. So we could probably go all screw this, we're making our own system indicator framework and just go for completely custom system indicators not dependent on the mess Ubuntu got in there. But there are several problems with this. First, some indicators (e.g. keyboard and network) are really complex, and it took even Canonical over a year to port them to Ayatana API and get them more or less right. Moreover, user switching and power indicators deal with security, and I'm not sure we have any PolicyKit gurus to audit that. Second, we'd be making up *yet another* applet API. Come on! Isn't there enough of that out there already? Can we just reuse some API like XFCE panel applets or something? Do we really have to reimplement all those things yet again? -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Elementary-dev-community] Just look at all the progress we made!
Hey guys, I though it'd be fun to look at all the progress we've made for the past two years of development. So I uploaded a development snapshot of Luna as we had it on the 19th of July 2011 to SourceForge. Here's the link: http://sourceforge.net/projects/elementaryos/files/unstable/luna_ANCIENT_snapshot_19Jul2011.iso/download Just look at all the things we've accomplished since then! It wouldn't be possible without each of you guys. You're amazing! Peace, love, and I'm departing to the woods! See you in two weeks! -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff Proud Community Member @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Just look at all the progress we made!
Also I want to congratulate everybody who every contributed, but it's almost 7AM and I haven't slept today at all, so I can't generate anything more sophisticated than THANK YOU GUYS YOU ROCK!! Also, somebody please make a list of news coverage and reviews we get! I'd really want to read it for one, even if in retrospect. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Elementary-dev-community] Fixin' Files
Hey guys, So I didn't depart today as it was planned, so I'm up to a little hackathon. Files has annoyingly crashy for months, and it still IS annoyingly crashy. I can't order copying a large amount of data and be sure that it gets copied before Files decides it's time to crash. And we don't have Apport crash retracer working anymore ( http://pad.lv/1191366) and I'm pretty sure the segfault happens not where the original bug is, but much later on. To track down the original bug(s) causing that I'm going to compile it with ElectricFence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_Fence), run it in GDB, see where it segfaults and post backtraces. What I need help with is: First, I have to add -lefence to the C compiler parameters in CMake and I have little idea how to do that. This will make Files segfault exactly where the original corruption happens and ease debugging greatly. It's much more fun than trying to track down the crashes in regular builds! Second, I totally suck at OOP so I probably won't be able to fix the crashes even if I track them down. Anyone up for joining me in fixing this? -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Mir Discussion with Jono
Some perspective on Xmir setup seen in Ubuntu 13.10 and 14.04: From Canonical: http://blog.cooperteam.net/2013/07/xmir-performance.html From X/Wayland upstreams: http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/26254.html -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Mir Discussion with Jono
2013/7/13 Sergio Costas rasters...@gmail.com And what about creating a WaylandMir? This is: as there is XMir that allows to run X apps over Mir, there should be possible to create a piece of code that translates Wayland calls to Mir calls. It should be even lighter than XMir because there are a lot of things in X that you must implement, even if you don't use them, but Wayland and Mir, conceptually are so similar that this should be much easier, and need much less resources... In theory it's possible, but I can't see how it would be useful. Also, it's probably easier to fork the relevant Wayland rendering code and make it render to Mir than to translate calls dynamically. Also, it seems there's significant confusion surrounding X compability layers. What XWayland does is running tiny rootless per-app X servers and rendering that to Wayland compositor which may or may not forward the frames to a system compositor. What Xmir currently does is running full-blown rooted X servers that render frames to Mir system compositor. Which compability layer scenario are you suggesting? -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Basing elementary on latest and greatest pieces of software
what do we need in order to get our own repo and automated build infrastructure? Is it a hardware issue? A lot of things I'm afraid. Off the top of my head, the list is as follows: 1. hardware 2. pbuilder configuration (mostly done) 3. some piece of software to accept dput uploads (should exist, but not found yet) 4. some piece of software to create and maintain the repository (should exist, but not found yet) 5. lots of integration scripts to write and secondary systems to set up (mailer to report failed builds, etc) 6. some UI to be able to make sense of all that and manage the setup (probably doesn't exist) -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Moving Away From Ubuntu
Luke Benstead, the info about frame sync issues in XMir is EXACTLY what I feared. Could you post a link to the original post by KWin developer to the thread about Mir? It should be right next to this one. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Moving Away From Ubuntu
I share Conscious User's concerns. In fact, bazaar is in exactly the same situation now. Canonical has limited resources and they have to choose where to allocate them. Moreover, the status of GNOME stack in Ubuntu repos is already daunting. The indicator API split, the online accounts split, the fallback stack split, the systemd split, now the display server split - they all make Ubuntu more and more incompatible with upstream. But I have a plan! My idea is to get our packages into all distros we're interested in as potential base distros by providing packager's documentation (started at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PrzhK7j3ljgAeYVgbQtdc7OHdMhjkn5f143XDyUMPDc/edit) and organizing a sprint/hackfest ( https://blueprints.launchpad.net/elementaryos/+spec/packaging-hackfest-luna). With that done, we can easily trick people into making pantheon spins of the relevant base distros. This way we'll have several backup spins of Luna which we'll be able to easily make our main OS if needed. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Moving Away From Ubuntu
...but it is a good idea to make elementary packages available on as many platforms as possible. It gives more publicity and more chances of finding newer developers. +1 People who are not convinced and want more info on the topic can hit me up for a lecture on Why it's important to have downstreams and spread your technology. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Elementary-dev-community] Missing in action
Hey guys, You've probably notices I've been inactive in the project for the past month or so. I'm writing to inform that I'm going to continue that trend for the upcoming two months. I'll probably be busy with some artistic and/or networking projects as well as preparing my lecture courses throughout July. And I'm taking my annual trip to a tent camp full of science geeks to deliver the lectures in August, which will probably render me offline. I feel like my work here for Luna is done, but if you need me for something specific in July, you know where to find me. Happy hacking, -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Built noise from source, can't find libgranite.so
Sounds like you have an outdated development package; run apt-cache policy libgranite-dev to list all available versions. The easiest way to install an alternative version is via Synaptic. 2013/6/23 Craig webe...@gmail.com I built and installed noise from source, but it can't find libgranite.so (I get the following error when I run 'noise'): noise: error while loading shared libraries: libgranite.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory I do have libgranite1 installed--can someone tell me what could be going wrong here? Please and thank you, Craig -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Running Elementary in a VirtualBox VM [tutorial]
Unfortunately VirtualBox is not a great choice because of its really, really poor GPU passthrough drivers that can cause all sorts of random issues, including crashes: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_itempx=OTk5Mw Running Luna in virtual machines is not a great idea in general because it's just not designed for such use. For example, using the dock in a VM is a PITA because you have to hover a 1px stripe, which is tricky. Also VirtualBox has very slow 2D acceleration, so the dock is slow to show up too even if you manage to reveal it. And any VM drivers are really slow at OpenGL, so Gala animations are laggy, window management in general is laggy even if you disable animations, and VirtualBox drivers show all kinds of nasty artifacts too. So, if you don't mind unusable window management (e.g. you always use one window), you can try running Luna in a VM, but please use something other than VirtualBox. In fact, Parallels GPU drivers are crap as well (proprietary and even worse than VirtualBox) and QEMU/KVM doesn't have guest GPU drivers, so the only VM in which Luna is usable (in single-window mode, because window management is b0rked either way) is VMware. If you want usable window management, you can try running Luna in fullscreen mode in QEMU/KVM or Xen with GPU passthrough to guest, but that's tricky to set up and I can't see any advantages of this setup over an actual installation. Oh, and there's also the option to hack out Gala and replace it with something that does compositing in software. But in that case you're not really running Luna. 2013/6/23 Craig Weber webe...@gmail.com I made a brief write up on using VirtualBox to virtualize Luna. My primary purpose is to increase exposure to Luna, particularly to those less-technical users; however, it could also be useful for those looking to create a clean development environment without fear of breaking their production environment. I wrote this up because I experienced a lot of issues with installing/configuring a Luna VM, and I want others to benefit from my experiences. Please feel free to read this/share it with anyone who may find it useful: http://craigmatthewweber.com/2013/06/23/running-elementaryos-in-virtualbox-under-ubuntu-13-04/ -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Crossing the Rubicon: Transitioning Luna from Daily PPA to Testing
Uh oh, I have the testing PPA added and things seem to be OK so far. I'm pretty sure most unstable ISOs out there have it enabled too... 2013/6/2 Cody Garver c...@elementaryos.org Those interested in tracking the progress of transitioning all Luna code from the Daily PPA to the Testing PPA can watch this Google Dochttps://docs.google.com/a/elementaryos.org/document/d/1kK7nYLtyUcB4IklMYmps9_rzachD7k1GweG3OpqWqdM/edit . Once things are working perfectly in the Testing PPA, its contents will fill the Stable PPA, with which we will generate our next public ISO. That ISO will NOT necessarily be the stable, final release of Luna, but it will technically be much much closer to a final release than building from Daily PPA snapshots. DO NOT ADD THE TESTING PPA TO YOUR SYSTEM. It will almost certainly *BREAK YOUR SYSTEM*. And besides, the code there tends to be outdated when compared to Daily PPA code. -- Cody Garver -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Beta2 review from Dedoimedo
FYI this is a review of beta1, not beta2. Judging by the screenshots, he didn't care to update the system either, and most complains are about quite obvious beta bugs. I also disagree with dedoimedo's review methodology, but that's a different story. 2013/5/18 ttosttos Sa ttost...@gmail.com Folks, Do a quick search for elementary OS on Google and second link should be dedoimedo's review for Luna Beta2. I'd highly recommend a read. You can't control what other's write and some of their points may be wrong/unfair (some completely miss the point in my opinion). In any case, it's good to stop and see where they have a valid point. Criticism helps you improve. It may be good to reach out to them to educate or communicate how some of the issues will be addressed. That review isn't really good press and is prominently displayed by Google. Cheers ttosttos -- -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Test Driven Development
code you write, and every time you rebuild the project, all of your old tests run. If you're writing good tests, you can be assured that all of your code works as you intend it to every single time you build, and if someone merges in a bug, it will be caught immediately (and the test that fails will give you some good information about what broke/where the bug is hiding). Of course, it takes time to write tests; however, it's still much less time than you would spend debugging your code. Furthermore, when you write tests before you write your production code, you are forced to design your code modularly just to make it testable. Among software professionals, TDD is seen as the fastest way to write software. I mean, Luna has been 90% complete for 90% of its development cycle, and this is a common pattern in the software world. With all of this in mind, I'd like to know how I can help you guys start practicing TDD? If this hasn't persuaded you, I'd appreciate it if you would respond and give your perspective so we can talk about it. I'm very interested in seeing you guys continue to put out great software, but I'm concerned that as you write more code, you're going to be creating more for yourselves to maintain and the amount of time you spend writing new software is going to drop off exponentially as the complexity (as complexity produces bugs) increases. Please let me know if/how I can help you. Craig -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Weird string in Noise Translations
Developers: please add comments for translators on all non-obvious strings like this one! Also please add translator comments on all strings with substitutions (e.g. %s) so that translators know what the %s is replaced with. Here's how it looks in code: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~elementary-apps/noise/trunk/view/head:/src/Views/ListView/ListView.vala#L379 And here's how translators see it: https://translations.launchpad.net/noise/trunk/+pots/noise/ru/139/+translate Info on adding Gettext translator comments can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gettext#Programming Or, better yet, use string templates instead of %s and other printf substitutions. It's much more readable for everyone: Code: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~elementary-apps/noise/trunk/view/head:/core/LibrariesManager.vala#L130 Translation: https://translations.launchpad.net/noise/trunk/+pots/noise/ru/1/+translate More info on string templates can be found at https://live.gnome.org/Vala/Tutorial#Strings 2013/5/15 Alfredo Hernández aldomann.desi...@gmail.com Hi guys, There's a very strange string in Noise translations that doesn't make any sense to me (as a translatable string): *the|a|an|le|la|les|un|une|der |die|das|los *(string No. 45). It doesn't even give any clue of what is the purpose of it and what it means. May you have a look at it? Thanks in advice, Alfredo. ** -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Weird string in Noise Translations
If your guess is correct, I believe we'd be better off collecting all such prefixes from all supported languages and merging them in one big string. It has several languages in it already, perhaps we should add more? 2013/5/15 Hakan Erduman ha...@erduman.de Let me have a guess: the string isn't for translation, it is for ordering artist names: Before: A Flock Of Seagulls Die Toten Hosen Los Lobos The Beatles After: Beatles, The Flock Of Seagulls, A Lobos, Los Toten Hosen, Die So the string must be unmarked for translation. wkr, Hakan Am 15.05.2013 12:32, schrieb Alfredo Hernández: Yes, that would also be very useful. Sometimes you can deduct what %s means and therefore localise the string accordingly, but sometimes you just must use a neutral phrase because you don't know what it refers to. Regards, Alfredo. On 15 May 2013 12:06, Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ser...@elementaryos.org wrote: Developers: please add comments for translators on all non-obvious strings like this one! Also please add translator comments on all strings with substitutions (e.g. %s) so that translators know what the %s is replaced with. Here's how it looks in code: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~elementary-apps/noise/trunk/view/head:/src/Views/ListView/ListView.vala#L379 And here's how translators see it: https://translations.launchpad.net/noise/trunk/+pots/noise/ru/139/+translate Info on adding Gettext translator comments can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gettext#Programming Or, better yet, use string templates instead of %s and other printf substitutions. It's much more readable for everyone: Code: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~elementary-apps/noise/trunk/view/head:/core/LibrariesManager.vala#L130 Translation: https://translations.launchpad.net/noise/trunk/+pots/noise/ru/1/+translate More info on string templates can be found at https://live.gnome.org/Vala/Tutorial#Strings 2013/5/15 Alfredo Hernández aldomann.desi...@gmail.com Hi guys, There's a very strange string in Noise translations that doesn't make any sense to me (as a translatable string): *the|a|an|le|la|les|un|une| der|die|das|los *(string No. 45). It doesn't even give any clue of what is the purpose of it and what it means. May you have a look at it? Thanks in advice, Alfredo. -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Redesigned and updated Privacy Panel for Switchboard
I'd prefer to always place the switch on the right of its label because the current layout ruins the reading rhythm - when reading left-to-right, I see the state of the switch first and only later I read what it does, and if I want to alter its state I have to go back in the beginning. If the switch is placed on the right, I read the label first, then see its state and if I don't like it, I can change it right away. This is what's used in every UI with switches I've ever seen, so consistency is also a factor here. The same applies to checkboxes, although in case of checkboxes the current layout might be justified by the alignment. 2013/5/11 Daniel Fore dan...@elementaryos.org Okay guys this is really rough and the icon is blurry etc, but just an idea. On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 4:21 AM, Manish Sinha manishsi...@ubuntu.com wrote: I am not very convinced by moving this in the center, neither moving Clear Usage Data in the center. since the button is not related to the Switch button On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 7:53 PM, Harvey Cabaguio harveycabag...@gmail.com wrote: http://f.cl.ly/items/0K2W2C1i3t0V2Q1s0D0k/Privacy.png On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 1:27 PM, Cassidy James cass...@elementaryos.org wrote: It's a third-party theme. But I agree that the plug layout itself feels a bit weird. Dan, care to throw something together? On May 8, 2013 1:24 PM, Manish Sinha manishsi...@ubuntu.com wrote: This looks weird. Which theme is this? Elementary? Isn't it just too white? - Manish On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 9:47 AM, Eduard Gotwig got...@ubuntu.com wrote: I don't know why, but for me, this look just doesn't feels right :/2013/5/8 Manish Sinha manishsi...@ubuntu.com I updated the Checkbox to Switch button and updated the string to This Operating System keeps track of Files and Applications you've used to provide extra functionality Additionally fixed a few bugs. I would release it in a day or two. Translations welcome. - Manish On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 5:18 PM, Daniel Foré dan...@elementaryos.org wrote: Manish, I would use a switch for only the top button (which enables/disables the entire service) and maintain the checkboxes below (since they include objects in a list) Best Regards, Daniel Foré El may 7, 2013, a las 4:17 p.m., Manish Sinha manishsi...@ubuntu.com escribió: On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 6:37 AM, Eduard Gotwig got...@ubuntu.com wrote: Hey Manish, Now, I find the look not quite appealing. Why not implement a ON/OFF switch, just like the one in Ubuntu, to Record Activity? What I do would to move a Record Activity ON/OFF switch to the top, and under that a description what that means. Well, it is a progress. This unified design was made by mpt whereas the previous 3 tab UI was made by me when I was 3 tequila down. That's why it was so terrible. I would really like to know if ON/OFF makes sense in such context. Is it the correct usage of Switch button. It seems to be sometimes over-abused. If some designer can shed light on it. - Manish -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Eduard Gotwig Tiu persono estas oni Esperantiston. Ubuntu TZM Member FLOSS Dev @ Launchpad -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-communityPost to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Launchpad App Translations
https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/YourProject This should help. 2013/4/24 dkotrada dkotr...@gmail.com: Can anybody explain me or point to documentation. I don't understand how launchpad translation work. It was all ok. Now I have strings that belongs only to the code. Also license notice is now for translation available. Best regards Dieter Konrad -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] On Contractor and Luna
Status update! Victor has designed and (together with Akhay) implemented a more object-oriented API for Granite: https://code.launchpad.net/~victored/granite/contractor-wrapper/+merge/159948 He has also updated Files to make use of it: https://code.launchpad.net/~victored/pantheon-files/contractor-plugin/+merge/160377 I've already verified that Granite and Files parts work as expected. I've also the Contractor rewrite for landing to PPA, so the moment the merge requests are approved we can finally land all this awesome work. 2013/4/14 Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ser...@elementaryos.org: Thanks! Could you write what you want to see changed in the API to make it easier to use on the merge request? 2013/4/14 Victor victoredua...@gmail.com Awesome work on Contractor! As for the Granite wrapper, I don't really see a lot of value in it since it's still a string-based API similar to the one we had before. It doesn't exploit Vala's object capabilities either. Is it really too much to ask to request OO APIs for Granite? Vala is object-oriented. Structured designs will most of the time produce bad client code in such languages. If you are proposing a new API for Granite and breaking an old one, make it worth it. Keep in mind that after Luna is released API breaks will be more difficult to handle, and ABI breaks forbidden. On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 1:10 AM, Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ser...@elementaryos.org wrote: Hey guys, We have a lot of progress to report! Thanks to Michael Lazarski, Akshay Shekher and Tom Beckmann we now have a working implementation of Contractor daemon using the new API. It's already much less buggy than the older one. Akshay has also transitioned Granite's wrapper to Contractor D-bus API to the new API, it just needs one final round of review: https://code.launchpad.net/~voldyman/granite/contractor-wid-dep-new-Contractor/+merge/158161 As soon as that's merged I'll land the new Contractor to the daily PPA. He has also transitioned the Contractor widgets to the new API, but Dan doesn't want any widgets interfacing with Contractor in Granite, so the merge request deprecates them instead of updating them. All that's left is to document the API (unfortunately the old Contractor API is undocumented too) and to transition applications to the new API. It's easy and will instantly fix multiple bugs (e.g. Scratch printing problems Cassidy complained about). 2013/3/30 Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ser...@elementaryos.org Hey guys, I have some unpleasant things to bring up. Sorry for the long post, I hope it will not end up being another TL;DR. (Come on, this is important!) As I've already reported, the current Contractor API is flawed. It relies on the client app calling Process.spawn_command_line_async on the string Contractor returns, which is bad for a long list of reasons. The most apparent one is being unable to handle filenames with spaces in them! This particular bug can be worked around in Contractor in an ugly way, but other issues remail and the API is not future-proof, so we'll have to break it and Granite API/ABI sooner or later (because Granite provides widgets and convenience functions for accessing Contractor API). Obviously it's better done sooner than later, while we don't have much code to transition and before the relevant Granite widgets get into a stable release. The more future-proof approach is to return a contract identifier to the client app and make the app call Contractor again to execute an action, passing it the identifier and the filename. This way Contractor can use proper process-launching functions or use completely different last-mile data transfer mechanisms, so we'll be able to add support for streaming data without writing it to disk or invoking D-bus methods, all without breaking the API in the future. I've investigated the problems of the current Contractor and wrote a better specification, detailing its expected behavior and the required API changes. I've discussed it with the original Python Contractor authors and got the green light from them. Michael Lazarski (lampe2) has taken a stab at cleaning up Ammonkey's code and implementing the spec, but he's currently preoccupied by contracted work (no pun intended). His Contractor branch can be found at lp:contractor. Additionally, I've looked into the state of Contractor support in Granite and elementary applications. In short, it's not glamorous. None of the apps use the Granite-provided ContractorMenu widget for the Export button; every single app reinvents the wheel and populates regular GTK menu with items acquired from Granite's Contractor wrapper. Maya (the least ugly implementation I've seen so far) even has a dedicated widget that's a clone of ContractorMenu! The other Contractor widget, ContractorView, is used only by Eidete where it doesn't seem to work; not sure if that's Contractor's fault or Eidete's. Finally, I don't
[Elementary-dev-community] Indicators are now officially done
Hey guys, I've fixed a long-standing Switchboard issue with GNOME Control Center compatibility layer recently. Calls to gnome-control-center binary are now transparently redirected to switchboard binary. Which brings us to the big news: Cody and your truly were able to complete the grand work of numerous contributors - bringing the indicators up to elementary Luna standards! INDICATORS ARE NOW OFFICIALLY COMPLETE!!! Many thanks to all the people who made that possible - especially Lucas and Mario and Victor (who even upstreamed a patch!) and Ivo! YOU ROCK GUYS!!! We've even dropped some OS patches in the process so we have less of a maintenance burden now. You'll have to clean up packages with Installed (local or obsolete) status in Synaptic to get rid of stale patches. I'll see if I can write a script to automate that when I have time. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Background apps discussion
Rico has completed implementation of the dock part - it's already available in PPA - and Ubuntu One happens to support it! Only https://blueprints.launchpad.net/gala/+spec/minimized-as-closed is left to do, most of which sounds quite trivial and some items are already implemented. So, any objections on the design? 2013/3/30 Nishant Agrwal nishantagrwal12...@gmail.com: Bump. On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 11:33 PM, Cassidy James cass...@elementaryos.org wrote: Not everyone checks the list every day; for example, I'm on vacation this week and haven't had the time to sit down and flesh this out. Let's keep this discussion open a bit longer than two days. ;) On Mar 24, 2013 10:01 AM, Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ser...@elementaryos.org wrote: Any objections on this? It's about time to voice them. If not, this should be added to the relevant HIG article, http://elementaryos.org/docs/human-interface-guidelines/user-workflow/background-tasks 2013/3/22 Nishant George Agrwal nishantagrwal12...@gmail.com Okay, so the thread about Noise not complying to the HIG turned into quite a general discussion about the HIG and background application behaviour so I am creating this new thread with a better title to continue it. Here's a link to the old thread: https://lists.launchpad.net/elementary-dev-community/msg02046.html Summing up, we need to think about proper ways to create and deal with background applications, i.e, applications that don't require interaction with the user for most or a big part of the time they are running, like mail clients, IM clients, music players, microblogging apps, etc. Typically, these apps don't fit well into any one task the user is performing, so it often doesn't make sense for these applications to be bound to a particular workspace either. To this end, applications are to intelligently handle closing the window to do whatever best suits the situation. The following could be guidelines to what the app must do (this deals with the user-facing elements, not the implementation) If you'd check a specific application frequently but not in reaction to notifications it raises (e.g. group chat, even if you weren't pinged directly) or if it has to be accessible as quickly as possible while it's running (e.g. music player, to pause music), the app should display an icon in the dock while it's running. If the app is primarily brought up in reaction to a notification and if the state of the app doesn't significantly affect its usage frequency (e.g. microblogging client - if the user tweets often they'd pin it to dock anyway), it should display an icon in the dock only when there are unattended action items (e.g. new messages) along with the action item count in the dock badge. As far as implementation goes, this branch was recently merged into plank, which enables preliminary support for batches and progress bars without the need for an open window. https://code.launchpad.net/~ricotz/plank/launcherentry-items For hiding the window while keeping the dock icon visible, one solution would be to make better use of minimize. The following blueprint would need to be implemented: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/gala/+spec/minimized-as-closed That's all folks. -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] On Contractor and Luna
Hey guys, We have a lot of progress to report! Thanks to Michael Lazarski, Akshay Shekher and Tom Beckmann we now have a working implementation of Contractor daemon using the new API. It's already much less buggy than the older one. Akshay has also transitioned Granite's wrapper to Contractor D-bus API to the new API, it just needs one final round of review: https://code.launchpad.net/~voldyman/granite/contractor-wid-dep-new-Contractor/+merge/158161 As soon as that's merged I'll land the new Contractor to the daily PPA. He has also transitioned the Contractor widgets to the new API, but Dan doesn't want any widgets interfacing with Contractor in Granite, so the merge request deprecates them instead of updating them. All that's left is to document the API (unfortunately the old Contractor API is undocumented too) and to transition applications to the new API. It's easy and will instantly fix multiple bugs (e.g. Scratch printing problems Cassidy complained about). 2013/3/30 Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ser...@elementaryos.org Hey guys, I have some unpleasant things to bring up. Sorry for the long post, I hope it will not end up being another TL;DR. (Come on, this is important!) As I've already reported, the current Contractor API is flawed. It relies on the client app calling Process.spawn_command_line_asynchttp://www.valadoc.org/#!api=glib-2.0/GLib.Process.spawn_command_line_asyncon the string Contractor returns, which is bad for a long list of reasons. The most apparent one is being unable to handle filenames with spaces in them https://bugs.launchpad.net/contractor/+bug/1123040! This particular bug can be worked around in Contractor in an ugly way, but other issues remail and the API is not future-proof, so *we'll have to break it and Granite API/ABI* sooner or later (because Granite provides widgets and convenience functions for accessing Contractor API). Obviously it's better done sooner than later, while we don't have much code to transition and before the relevant Granite widgets get into a stable release. The more future-proof approach is to return a contract identifier to the client app and make the app call Contractor again to execute an action, passing it the identifier and the filename. This way Contractor can use proper process-launching functions or use completely different last-mile data transfer mechanismshttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1_w6-XBtr9qXXteytC9Mz0JqXZZoMsOPdfTDXVcoswUY/edit#, so we'll be able to add support for streaming data without writing it to disk or invoking D-bus methods, all without breaking the API in the future. I've investigated the problems of the current Contractor and wrote a better specificationhttps://docs.google.com/a/elementaryos.org/document/d/1Ijsc57vYEHBZxVdM0fRgCuBX2NbdRDv1kuOj0OG75v4/edit#, detailing its expected behavior and the required API changes. I've discussed it with the original Python Contractor authors and got the green light from them. Michael Lazarski (lampe2) has taken a stab at cleaning up Ammonkey's code and implementing the spec, but he's currently preoccupied by contracted work (no pun intended). His Contractor branch can be found at lp:contractorhttps://code.launchpad.net/~michael.lazarski/contractor/master . Additionally, I've looked into the state of Contractor support in Granite and elementary applications. In short, it's not glamorous. None of the apps use the Granite-provided ContractorMenu widget for the Export button; every single app reinvents the wheel and populates regular GTK menu with items acquired from Granite's Contractor wrapper. Maya (the least ugly implementation I've seen so far) even has a dedicated widget that's a clone of ContractorMenu! The other Contractor widget, ContractorView, is used only by Eidete where it doesn't seem to work; not sure if that's Contractor's fault or Eidete's. Finally, I don't understand why Granite has a wrapper for Contractor - it doesn't seem to reduce complexity or abstract anything. Using the D-bus API directly requires almost the same amount of code. So IMO the proper course of action is the following: * Rework Contractor's D-bus API according to my specificationhttps://docs.google.com/a/elementaryos.org/document/d/1Ijsc57vYEHBZxVdM0fRgCuBX2NbdRDv1kuOj0OG75v4/edit?pli=1 * Deprecate/abolish the Contractor wrapper in Granite * Update Granite widgets and Pantheon Files to work with the new D-bus API * Migrate other applications to using the Granite widgets (currently Maya, Scratch, Midori and elementary-flavored Simple Scan) However, I'm not sure this course of action is feasible for Luna. I'm absolutely not OK with releasing Granite with an API so flawed and which we're going to break in the future, so the alternative is to replace the current Contractor wrapper functions with stubs, mark them deprecated and replace Granite functionality in apps with something else. The options that spring to mind
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] On Contractor and Luna
Thanks! Could you write what you want to see changed in the API to make it easier to use on the merge request? 2013/4/14 Victor victoredua...@gmail.com Awesome work on Contractor! As for the Granite wrapper, I don't really see a lot of value in it since it's still a string-based API similar to the one we had before. It doesn't exploit Vala's object capabilities either. Is it really too much to ask to request OO APIs for Granite? Vala is object-oriented. Structured designs will most of the time produce bad client code in such languages. If you are proposing a new API for Granite and breaking an old one, make it worth it. Keep in mind that after Luna is released API breaks will be more difficult to handle, and ABI breaks forbidden. On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 1:10 AM, Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ser...@elementaryos.org wrote: Hey guys, We have a lot of progress to report! Thanks to Michael Lazarski, Akshay Shekher and Tom Beckmann we now have a working implementation of Contractor daemon using the new API. It's already much less buggy than the older one. Akshay has also transitioned Granite's wrapper to Contractor D-bus API to the new API, it just needs one final round of review: https://code.launchpad.net/~voldyman/granite/contractor-wid-dep-new-Contractor/+merge/158161 As soon as that's merged I'll land the new Contractor to the daily PPA. He has also transitioned the Contractor widgets to the new API, but Dan doesn't want any widgets interfacing with Contractor in Granite, so the merge request deprecates them instead of updating them. All that's left is to document the API (unfortunately the old Contractor API is undocumented too) and to transition applications to the new API. It's easy and will instantly fix multiple bugs (e.g. Scratch printing problems Cassidy complained about). 2013/3/30 Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ser...@elementaryos.org Hey guys, I have some unpleasant things to bring up. Sorry for the long post, I hope it will not end up being another TL;DR. (Come on, this is important!) As I've already reported, the current Contractor API is flawed. It relies on the client app calling Process.spawn_command_line_asynchttp://www.valadoc.org/#!api=glib-2.0/GLib.Process.spawn_command_line_asyncon the string Contractor returns, which is bad for a long list of reasons. The most apparent one is being unable to handle filenames with spaces in them https://bugs.launchpad.net/contractor/+bug/1123040! This particular bug can be worked around in Contractor in an ugly way, but other issues remail and the API is not future-proof, so *we'll have to break it and Granite API/ABI* sooner or later (because Granite provides widgets and convenience functions for accessing Contractor API). Obviously it's better done sooner than later, while we don't have much code to transition and before the relevant Granite widgets get into a stable release. The more future-proof approach is to return a contract identifier to the client app and make the app call Contractor again to execute an action, passing it the identifier and the filename. This way Contractor can use proper process-launching functions or use completely different last-mile data transfer mechanismshttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1_w6-XBtr9qXXteytC9Mz0JqXZZoMsOPdfTDXVcoswUY/edit#, so we'll be able to add support for streaming data without writing it to disk or invoking D-bus methods, all without breaking the API in the future. I've investigated the problems of the current Contractor and wrote a better specificationhttps://docs.google.com/a/elementaryos.org/document/d/1Ijsc57vYEHBZxVdM0fRgCuBX2NbdRDv1kuOj0OG75v4/edit#, detailing its expected behavior and the required API changes. I've discussed it with the original Python Contractor authors and got the green light from them. Michael Lazarski (lampe2) has taken a stab at cleaning up Ammonkey's code and implementing the spec, but he's currently preoccupied by contracted work (no pun intended). His Contractor branch can be found at lp:contractorhttps://code.launchpad.net/~michael.lazarski/contractor/master . Additionally, I've looked into the state of Contractor support in Granite and elementary applications. In short, it's not glamorous. None of the apps use the Granite-provided ContractorMenu widget for the Export button; every single app reinvents the wheel and populates regular GTK menu with items acquired from Granite's Contractor wrapper. Maya (the least ugly implementation I've seen so far) even has a dedicated widget that's a clone of ContractorMenu! The other Contractor widget, ContractorView, is used only by Eidete where it doesn't seem to work; not sure if that's Contractor's fault or Eidete's. Finally, I don't understand why Granite has a wrapper for Contractor - it doesn't seem to reduce complexity or abstract anything. Using the D-bus API directly requires almost the same amount of code. So IMO the proper
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Elementary Font name?
http://elementaryos.org/journal/typography-gtk3 This should be added to the HIG. 2013/4/9 dkotrada dkotr...@gmail.com I want to set font in my application to elementary. Ho is that font called in system? -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Elementary-dev-community] Better HIG layout
Hey guys, Our HIG feels a little abstract right now. It communicates the ideals but gives little idea about how to implement the recommendations. I thought it would be cool to include example code that implements the recommendations in Vala/GTK/Granite. For example it's hard for me to get all the padding right in http://elementaryos.org/docs/human-interface-guidelines/ui-toolkit-elements/windows/dialogsor implement proper handling of background tasks (btw, are we updating the relevant HIG article or not?). A side-by-side layout where you can see the recommendations AND example code that implements them would be great IMO. Thoughts? -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Testing
2013/4/4 Craig webe...@gmail.com Sergey, that looks very interesting, although I'm a little confused--what are the differences between your first link and Glimpse? My first link is my scripts for easily testing code proposed for merging. I created them to offload the burden of testing proposed code from developers to adventurous users. However, nobody understand what are those scripts and why they're needed unless I explain it personally on IRC .I guess I suck at emailing people, but I always knew that... -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Testing
I strongly recommend anyone interested in automated testing to read through Martin Pitt's Ubuntu Dev Week session on the topic. He's the one responsible for most of unit testing in Ubuntu (he's also the author of Apport which we already use). His IRC nick is pitti and the session logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/01/31/%23ubuntu-classroom.html -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Testing
I'm not so sure we need a solution bound to Vala specifically, because: 1. We have automated UI testing covered by Ubuntu's regression testing framework 2. We have D-bus testing coverted by Ubuntu's regression testing framework 3. Vala translates to C so we can use a C unit testing system for functions For details on what Ubuntu do see Martin Pitt's UDW session, http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/01/31/%23ubuntu-classroom.html -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Farewell, Sort Of
I hate the few days after the 1st of April. I never know if I can trust what I read. 2013/4/2 David Gomes da...@elementaryos.org Oh you Cassidy, almost got me! ;) On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 1:16 AM, Cassidy James cass...@elementaryos.orgwrote: Hey Awesome Devs, As many of you may or may not know, I joined the elementary team a little over two years ago. I had been following the project from its humble origins as an icon set and watched it grow into much more: a philosophy, a way of thinking, and a truly powerful software movement. In the time since, I've been on board as a community manager, a sort of public relations guy, a Council member, and a user experience designer. I've floated to where I was needed, helping as much as I could. It's time to continue that flux, albeit with another software project. I've been approached by Canonical to work as a user experience designer for Ubuntu. I'll be working alongside the awesome designers at Canonical on Ubuntu and their mobile efforts. I'm excited to bring the promise of truly free software to a much wider audience, and I couldn't ask for a better team to be working with. I will attempt to still be present in the elementary community and contribute when my new career allows, though I expect it to be at a much smaller capacity compared to now. I wish you all the best of luck with Luna and future releases. Regards, Cassidy James -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] How to review and merge branches
I'm afraid automatic prettifiers are a terrible idea because blindly restyling the code usually makes it lose any remains of readability it used to have. In other words, automatically restyled code is even less readable than code with a foreign coding style. 2013/3/31 David Gomes da...@elementaryos.org I wrote this in order to check for code style errors, but it's not perfect it's just a help-tool: https://github.com/elementary/vala-analyzer We have 'considered' using a prettifier too, but I just use Emacs to fix some stuff on my code - a prettifier script would be too much work and I don't know of any libraries that would help me with the task. On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 3:34 AM, Craig webe...@gmail.com wrote: Good work David. Have you (elementary) considered using a prettifier to standardize a code style upon pushing to your trunk? On Mar 28, 2013 7:17 PM, Cody Garver c...@elementaryos.org wrote: Cool, it's pretty thorough. On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 7:58 AM, David Gomes da...@elementaryos.orgwrote: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19899464/reviewstutorial.html Hello guys, From time to time somebody still has doubts on how to use Launchpad and Bazaar to review and merge branches to trunk so I wrote a tutorial. Note though that it may need expansion. Many times, even experienced developers who have been in the Apps Team for a long time make mistakes so even if you already know how to do it, reading the tutorial won't hurt. I also recommend that all developers that in the future are to join the Apps Team read this several times because even though we can always revert messed-up commits, it's better to do it right at the first time. Best regards, David Munchor Gomes -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Cody Garver -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
