Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Hi!

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Guys, it's been two days and a flamewar, and still no constructive
pointers?! You should feel ashamed for yourself!

Hi Tobia! I hope this initial accidental flamewar wasn't too off-putting.
We really should set up better exchange of patches between Shotwell and
Photos one of these days, and work in the spirit of collaboration instead
of... well, THAT.

First thing you'd need is to familiarize yourself with Vala. Here are some
links to get you started:
https://live.gnome.org/Vala/Tutorial - the official tutorial, which is
rather comprehensive
https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Vala/ValaForJavaProgrammers and
https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Vala/ValaForCSharpProgrammers might be
handy if you're familiar with either Java or C#, since Vala resembles those
languages (C# in particular)
http://valadoc.org/ hosts documentation on most libraries,
http://valadoc.elementaryos.org/ for documentation on elementary's in-house
convenience library (only used in Photos). Sometimes we ship package
versions different from those documented on valadoc.org; if in doubt, check
/usr/share/vala/vapi/ locally for the definitive bindings.

http://elementaryos.org/docs/code is a kickstart for Vala and contributing
to elementary projects, and to some extent the GTK box model. I believe our
guide still doesn't cover submitting patches, so refer to the old dev guide
draft
<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FHF4gXZfBZuOvDBuFPtJuCcaCyjSi-fpZ_-kWj6N4FA/edit#heading=h.o9ppeoo2c0qd>
for that instead. If you have any problems with understanding GTK, GNOME
developer screencasts <http://vimeo.com/25185245> can be of use, or just
ask around.

#elementary-dev on FreeNode is our development IRC channel, but it's not
really populated by developers these days - we now use a more convenient
but proprietary platform internally that (unfortunately) does not allow
guest access. (Somebody please send an invite to our Slack to this guy!).

For Photos, the project page is at https://launchpad.net/pantheon-photos
(see elementary developer guide for handling those), and you should also
check out elementary Human Interface Guidelines at
http://elementaryos.org/docs/human-interface-guidelines if you're
interested in contributing. Photos is largely about making Shotwell get out
of your way and redesigning to so it can live up to elementary OS usability
standards. Looking at the bug tracker, there's still quite some low-hanging
fruit in the UI. This should be a good starting point since you'd learn
GTK, Vala and talking to designers all at once :)

I can't comment on contributing to Shotwell besides linking to
https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Shotwell since I don't typically deal with it.
Perhaps Jim will be willing to give some pointers.

May the Source be with you!
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Translation Freeze?

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Until that date, it'd be great if translators or perhaps a native English
speaker too could look through our English strings and report all confusing
or clunky ones. Most of elementary developers are not native English
speakers or simply don't specialize in making up obvious UI strings, so we
probably have quite a few issues with this.

The most confusing strings I know is "Keep music folder organized" switch
in Noise. Will that keep my music folder intact or for rearrange it based
on metadata? I don't know!

So translators, please report any strings that are confusing or missing
context for translation, and we'll fix them or add comments for translators.

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] (the indicators situation) XFCE next release approaching, they hope to port to gtk3 afterwards

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Thanks for the info!

I wonder if indicators themselves were ported to GTK3 though.

Another suggestion I've heard recently is looking into MATE indicators. But
this is all Freya+1 stuff so I'll investigate it only after Freya is
released.

If anyone's interested in the situation with indicators, I've detailed it
here: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1439765#p1439765
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Getting Started With Vala

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

I'd suggest starting out with Python (e.g. Mark Summerfield wrote an
excellent book on Python 3) and getting a year or two of experience in
personal projects or existing Python code. Vala, while being an excellent
practical language, just doesn't have a comparable course coverage, so it's
a terrible language for starters. Also, most aspects of procedural and OOP
programming are pretty universal across such languages.

I would also suggest Peter Goodliffe's "Code Craft", for generic
programming stuff.

Finally, a book on data structures and algorithms would come in handy, but
I'm not aware of any good AND up-to-date ones. If you find one, let me know.

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Wayland plans? Here is a proof of concept compositor :)

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Gys, please don't start a flamewar out of nowhere!

Jose: Thanks for your proposal! Libmutter does indeed implement a Wayland
compositor and it's the Glib equivalent of Qt's compositor module.
Migration to Mir does not make sense for us because Mutter and even GTK are
not natively supported by it, so we'll have to go with Wayland - it's
pretty much our only option.

However, I expect all our stuff and especially Gala to be shaken up for the
Wayland migration, and I'd like to see a more radical redesign after the
iterative Isis cycle. Among the things I'd really like to see implemented
is this:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/10W8udXK-fumvnFlyLG1G27iUWKnTcCa-ck09tO_OkdU/edit

I'm not aware of anyone doing such things before, so that sounds like a fun
ride to take part in! If you're interested, Vala is easier to use than C++,
so you should be able to migrate in no time - especially given the fact
that it compiles to C :) https://live.gnome.org/Vala/Tutorial and
http://elementaryos.org/docs/code provide a good kick-start.

Cheers,
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] elementary os Isis mock-up kit?

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

I believe your best bet is to take a vector screenshot and deconstruct it
in Inkscape, see
https://lists.launchpad.net/elementary-dev-community/msg01943.html


2014-05-14 10:09 GMT+04:00 Benoît Barberousse 
:

> There are some svg mock-up kits for Luna in the wild, I was wondering if
> anyone had a similar one for Luna-based apps ( i.e. header bars, etc)?
>
> --
> Benoît Barberousse
> 872.800.7655
>
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>


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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] URGENT: Update and change your SSH keys IMMEDIATELY

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

I've been over-reacting then. Sorry.


2014-04-08 21:33 GMT+04:00 Ramiro Algozino :

> GitHub just tweeted:
>
> @github  <https://twitter.com/github> 32 min
>  <https://twitter.com/github/status/453578068255588352>Another note
> regarding the OpenSSL vulnerability: SSH is not affected. You don't need to
> do anything with your SSH keys.
>
> Source: https://twitter.com/github/status/453578068255588352
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> 2014-04-07 23:16 GMT-03:00 Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff <
> ser...@elementaryos.org>:
>
>> Since Launchpad itself is probably vulnerable, I strongly suggest
>> everyone with code commit and/or PPA upload permissions to CLEAR ALL
>> COOKIES and refrain from using Launchpad until
>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1304136 is fixed.
>>
>>
>> 2014-04-08 5:14 GMT+04:00 Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff <
>> ser...@elementaryos.org>:
>>
>> Oh yeah, right, don't forget to change your important passwords too!
>>>
>>>
>>> 2014-04-08 4:56 GMT+04:00 desideran...@rocketmail.com <
>>> desideran...@rocketmail.com>:
>>>
>>> SSH does not use TLS per se, so revoking ssh keys is not that useful
>>>>
>>>> Enviado desde Mail con Replicant
>>>>
>>>>  --
>>>> * From: * victor-eduardo ;
>>>> * To: * Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ;
>>>> * Cc: * elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net <
>>>> elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net>;
>>>> * Subject: * Re: [Elementary-dev-community] URGENT: Update and change
>>>> your SSH keys IMMEDIATELY
>>>> * Sent: * Tue, Apr 8, 2014 12:36:30 AM
>>>>
>>>>   Thanks for the heads up!
>>>>
>>>> OpenSSL is flawed by design indeed :(
>>>>
>>>> On lun, abr 7, 2014 at 6:31 , Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff <
>>>> ser...@elementaryos.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Also do not forget to revoke the older keys wherever they are used -
>>>> Launchpad, etc.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2014-04-08 3:45 GMT+04:00 Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff <
>>>> ser...@elementaryos.org>:
>>>>
>>>>> There's a killer bug in OpenSSL that leaks private keys! Update your
>>>>> system and change your SSH private keys (and other private keys for good
>>>>> measure) IMMEDIATELY!
>>>>>
>>>>> More info at http://heartbleed.com/
>>>>> *runs off to upgrade all machines and change keys everywhere*
>>>>> --
>>>>> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
>>
>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>> Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Ramiro Algozino
> http://ramiroalgozino.com.ar/
>



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[Elementary-dev-community] UGENT: Change your Launchpad passwords!

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Hey guys,

Launchpad SSL keys have been changed just now, so the connections to it
should be no longer vulnerable, provided you have an up-to-date system.

Please clear all cookies, log in to Launchpad again and change your
passwords - it's possible that they have been leaked because of this bug!

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] URGENT: Update and change your SSH keys IMMEDIATELY

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Since Launchpad itself is probably vulnerable, I strongly suggest everyone
with code commit and/or PPA upload permissions to CLEAR ALL COOKIES and
refrain from using Launchpad until
https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1304136 is fixed.


2014-04-08 5:14 GMT+04:00 Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff <
ser...@elementaryos.org>:

> Oh yeah, right, don't forget to change your important passwords too!
>
>
> 2014-04-08 4:56 GMT+04:00 desideran...@rocketmail.com <
> desideran...@rocketmail.com>:
>
> SSH does not use TLS per se, so revoking ssh keys is not that useful
>>
>> Enviado desde Mail con Replicant
>>
>>  ------
>> * From: * victor-eduardo ;
>> * To: * Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ;
>> * Cc: * elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net <
>> elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net>;
>> * Subject: * Re: [Elementary-dev-community] URGENT: Update and change
>> your SSH keys IMMEDIATELY
>> * Sent: * Tue, Apr 8, 2014 12:36:30 AM
>>
>>   Thanks for the heads up!
>>
>> OpenSSL is flawed by design indeed :(
>>
>> On lun, abr 7, 2014 at 6:31 , Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff <
>> ser...@elementaryos.org> wrote:
>>
>> Also do not forget to revoke the older keys wherever they are used -
>> Launchpad, etc.
>>
>>
>> 2014-04-08 3:45 GMT+04:00 Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff <
>> ser...@elementaryos.org>:
>>
>>> There's a killer bug in OpenSSL that leaks private keys! Update your
>>> system and change your SSH private keys (and other private keys for good
>>> measure) IMMEDIATELY!
>>>
>>> More info at http://heartbleed.com/
>>> *runs off to upgrade all machines and change keys everywhere*
>>> --
>>> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
>



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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] URGENT: Update and change your SSH keys IMMEDIATELY

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Oh yeah, right, don't forget to change your important passwords too!


2014-04-08 4:56 GMT+04:00 desideran...@rocketmail.com <
desideran...@rocketmail.com>:

> SSH does not use TLS per se, so revoking ssh keys is not that useful
>
> Enviado desde Mail con Replicant
>
>  --
> * From: * victor-eduardo ;
> * To: * Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ;
> * Cc: * elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net <
> elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net>;
> * Subject: * Re: [Elementary-dev-community] URGENT: Update and change
> your SSH keys IMMEDIATELY
> * Sent: * Tue, Apr 8, 2014 12:36:30 AM
>
>   Thanks for the heads up!
>
> OpenSSL is flawed by design indeed :(
>
> On lun, abr 7, 2014 at 6:31 , Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff <
> ser...@elementaryos.org> wrote:
>
> Also do not forget to revoke the older keys wherever they are used -
> Launchpad, etc.
>
>
> 2014-04-08 3:45 GMT+04:00 Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff <
> ser...@elementaryos.org>:
>
>> There's a killer bug in OpenSSL that leaks private keys! Update your
>> system and change your SSH private keys (and other private keys for good
>> measure) IMMEDIATELY!
>>
>> More info at http://heartbleed.com/
>> *runs off to upgrade all machines and change keys everywhere*
>> --
>> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
>
>


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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] URGENT: Update and change your SSH keys IMMEDIATELY

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Also do not forget to revoke the older keys wherever they are used -
Launchpad, etc.


2014-04-08 3:45 GMT+04:00 Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff <
ser...@elementaryos.org>:

> There's a killer bug in OpenSSL that leaks private keys! Update your
> system and change your SSH private keys (and other private keys for good
> measure) IMMEDIATELY!
>
> More info at http://heartbleed.com/
> *runs off to upgrade all machines and change keys everywhere*
> --
> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
>



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[Elementary-dev-community] URGENT: Update and change your SSH keys IMMEDIATELY

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

There's a killer bug in OpenSSL that leaks private keys! Update your system
and change your SSH private keys (and other private keys for good measure)
IMMEDIATELY!

More info at http://heartbleed.com/
*runs off to upgrade all machines and change keys everywhere*
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[Elementary-dev-community] Neglected merge requests

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Hey guys,

I'd like to remind you that we have 30 merge requests waiting for review:
https://code.launchpad.net/elementary/+activereviews

Some are obviously outdated like the Audience merge request back from 2012
but most are actually up to date and could use some love, like that epic
merge for fixing file manager plugin in Scratch.

So please check if there are any branches you can review and/or update and
act accordingly at your leisure :)

Also, if you're wondering why IRC has been pretty quiet recently, it's
because people have really actually moved to Google+. I only observe dev
activity there nowadays. The main elementary community is swamped by
screenshots and support requests so the development coordination happens in
another, hidden, community. Ping Cassidy, Cody or Dan to get a pass in
there.

Cheers,
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Fwd: Google+

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

>
> Here's the elementary page: https://plus.google.com/114635553671833442612/
>
> And here's its associated community:
> https://plus.google.com/communities/104613975513761463450
>

You mean there's no way to keep up with internal elementary posts without
sifting through tons of weird unrelated clutter in
https://plus.google.com/communities/104613975513761463450 ?

I guess my real question is: after migrating to G+ what do you use instead
of IRC's group chat?
I have a basic idea of how to work in a group chat, but so far I can't even
understand what did you ditch it for.
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Fwd: Google+

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

2014-03-26 21:35 GMT+04:00 Raphael Isemann :

> Hangouts on the top-right for chatting with people in real-time. It's
> IIRC not using Jabber or any open protocol, so you have to stick with
> the official google-apps or that webinterface.
>
> G+ is otherwise just using Circles (=Collection of People) for
> everything. A community is a Circle where everyone can join when he
> wants and there are private cicles for you where you can put people
> into. If you send any message you can specify which circles are able
> to read that message (as in "Family, WeirdoPeople, Xyz") and everyone
> that is in one of those Circles sees it.
>
> There is a elementary-community that is a good start.
>

Thanks! Do we have an official elementary circle or whatever? I don't
exactly feel like maintaining the list manually and on my own.

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[Elementary-dev-community] Fwd: Google+

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Okay, where can I find an intro to 2014? We have a more or less defined
workflow here, but I for one have no idea how G+ works and what it provides
(any real-time conversations?).

I made an honest attempt to get into G+ by myself, but all I get is this:
http://i.imgur.com/nKI4Enq.png
http://i.imgur.com/AemwVwF.png
I have no idea what is all this stuff about and what to do with it.

Also, once we flesh out the intro to G+ workflow, it might be a good idea
to write that down in the website. At least I get "How do I get involved?"
emails on a regular basis and that indicates that the website doesn't
provide that info.
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] foto 1.0

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Uh, given the limited resources, it sounds like a good idea to only work on
one app for Isis. But on the other hand I was secretly thinking to myself
for years that Shotwell could use a rewrite. The app looks very nice so far.

Ping me in IRC and we'll figure out automated crash submission and
retracing for Foto - we wouldn't want crashes to go unnoticed, would we?

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Brave New Automated Scripts

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

REPORT YOUR CRASHES WE CAN HAS A RETRACER!!!

(So I've packaged
<https://launchpad.net/%7Eshnatsel/+archive/minijail>minijail and
looks like we finally have the crash retracer running on a
daily basis again!)

Yay. Now on to more fixing and hardening.

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Brave New Automated Scripts

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

I've received guidance from Martin Pitt and added multiarch retracing
support to the retracer (
lp:~elementary-os/elementaryos/apport-retrace-elementary-wrapper<https://code.launchpad.net/%7Eelementary-os/elementaryos/apport-retrace-elementary-wrapper>
).

Now - on to packaging minijail and running all this in isolated sandboxes
as cronjobs on a server...

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Brave New Automated Scripts

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

I forgot the most important thing: the package importer configs for both
precise and trusty are now in the same branch,
lp:ubuntu-package-imports/elementary-import-lists<https://code.launchpad.net/%7Eelementary-os/ubuntu-package-imports/elementary-import-lists>

So please use that one instead of the old per-distro branches from now on.

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[Elementary-dev-community] Brave New Automated Scripts

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Hey guys,

As you probably know, for OS patches we rely on Launchpad recipes and a
custom importer for Ubuntu packages to bzr branches because the official
imports are often horribly outdated.

Up to this point the importer required pristine Ubuntu installations to run
and only worked for the same distro series as the host, so e.g. if we
needed to import packages from precise we needed a precise machine, and a
separate machine or chroot for trusty.

After digging into apt configs and a day of coding I'm happy to announce
that it is no longer the case. We now have a single script that runs apt in
a sort of sandbox (look ma, no chroots!) and can import packages for any
number of distros, regardless of the host.

The code for the new importer and a changelog can be found at
lp:ubuntu-package-imports<https://code.launchpad.net/%7Eelementary-os/ubuntu-package-imports/apt-to-bzr-importer-2.0>.
I've updated the documentation on automated
tasks<https://docs.google.com/document/d/16bUZqrSudlVt7Z7gAafS15U-ZlmvhdSMpLEL1wcatGg/edit?usp=sharing>accordingly.

I've also been hacking away at our Apport (crash reporting) setup. The static
configuration<https://code.launchpad.net/~elementary-os/elementaryos/apport-retrace-sandbox>has
become unmaintainable at our scale so I've written a script that
automatically generates it given the names of the LP teams whose PPAs
should be included. That also happened to simplify the process for whoever
runs it.
The source code and a README can be found at
lp:~elementary-os/elementaryos/apport-retrace-elementary-wrapper<https://code.launchpad.net/%7Eelementary-os/elementaryos/apport-retrace-elementary-wrapper>;
the documentation on automated tasks is already updated.

I've also looked into retracing both i386 and amd64 (and hopefully armhf)
crashes on one machine without chroots or (omg!) VMs. Turns out Apport
supports it, but only for Ubuntu itself. I'm now in touch with Martin Pitt,
the awesome Apport (and PyGI!) developer, to figure out how to use that for
non-Ubuntu packages.

Thanks for reading!
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Porting to Debian as GSoC project

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Just a quick update: Debian developer Paul Tagliamonte took great
interested in the idea and matched me with a mentor, so we now have a
mentor for the project!

I've applied for the project as a student. Fingers crossed...

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Replace libnotify

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

At a glance, this is much more limited than libnotify which implements the
notification standard in full:
https://developer.gnome.org/notification-spec/

I can't see any advantages that would make us migrate to it. Especially
right now, when we have to ship a stable release in like two months.


2014-03-11 0:35 GMT+04:00 Corentin Noël :

> Hi all,
> I found this information today :
> https://developer.gnome.org/GNotification/ and as Trusty does ship glib
> 2.39 with this functions, I think It would be better for every app using
> libnotify to switch to GLib native notification system.
> Any idea/comment/approval about this ?
>
> Have a nice week,
> Corentin "tintou" Noël
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Porting to Debian as GSoC project

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

I showed interest as a student but I could not find a mentor. There are
people interested in getting this done but they're too busy as it is.

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Porting to Debian as GSoC project

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

2014-02-26 13:13 GMT+04:00 Pim Vullers :

> This would also be interesting for other ports of elementary as this
> would loosen the dependencies on ubuntu components or at least make
> these dependencies more explicit.
>

I guess you already know everything there is to know about Ubuntu-specific
dependencies, so why don't we team up and document that regardless of GSoC?
We've already tried doing that but apparently that was too early.

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Porting to Debian as GSoC project

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Rico Tzschichholz (ricotz) and Devid Antonio Filoni (devfil) are the only
Debian maintainers who have been involved in elementary AFAIK. I don't know
where to look up whether they're Debian *developers* or not.

As for the student to perform that, I could undertake this task. It'd be
nice to finally get out of the shady PPA stade and up to the Debian
standards.
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Porting to Debian as GSoC project

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

2014-02-26 10:15 GMT+04:00 Buyongo Phiri :

>
> Hi guys,
>
> I have been lingering in the background for a while now. I like Elementary
> and I'm curious on what it would take to become a maintainer. What skillset
> is required for such a task?
>

Buyongo, the GSoC idea page already lists the required skills:
https://wiki.debian.org/SummerOfCode2014/ProjectProposals/PackageElementarySoftware

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[Elementary-dev-community] We're now on gee-0.8 (AKA "Let the build failures begin!")

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Hey guys,

So I got sick of waiting and merged gee-0.8 conversion branch into Granite,
all the outstanding gee-0.8 conversion merge requests listed in
https://bugs.launchpad.net/granite/+bug/1270091
In addition I made all relevant daily build recipes Trusty-only, as per
Rico's advice.

This change should fix builds for everything that's been converted to
gee-0.8 prior to Granite (e.g. Scratch) and break builds for everything
still dependent on the deprecated gee-1.0 since it cannot co-exist with
gee-0.8 in one project. If you get weird "`Gee' already contains a
definition for " errors, you should switch to gee-0.8.

I think I might have broken daily builds for Wingpanel since I don't
understand the situation with its branches - it's
lp:wingpanel/0.3.x<https://code.launchpad.net/%7Eelementary-pantheon/wingpanel/0.3.x>that
builds to PPA but I've merged the branch to development focus, i.e.
lp:wingpanel<https://code.launchpad.net/%7Eelementary-pantheon/wingpanel/trunk>which
only has a disabled recipe for Luna. So which branch should I have
merged this Trusty-only code in?

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[Elementary-dev-community] Developer documentation (was: Google Summer of Code Ideas)

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Hey guys,

So I've checked out the current documentation in the website again and
turns out it's quite useless. In addition to all the flaws I've already
listed (quoted below for your convenience), it has no intro to
Granite.Application or our widgets - in fact, it doesn't even mention
Granite! All we have there is a Vala/GTK3 "hello world". Is that
*really*the intended content?

I know Dan was not fond of the older dev guide draft (
http://tiny.cc/dev-guide-draft) but it, despite its many flaws, at least it
had actual useful content! I'm afraid we're taking the "don't do anything
to not make any mistakes" approach here, except we make mistakes anyway.

Are we going to do something about this maybe?

2014-02-19 18:31 GMT+04:00 Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff <
ser...@elementaryos.org>:

> In the dev guide we should at least link to
> http://valadoc.elementaryos.org/granite/index.htm for API reference, link
> to Vala tutorial <https://live.gnome.org/Vala/Tutorial> and 
> migration<https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Vala/ValaForJavaProgrammers>
> guides <https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Vala/ValaForCSharpProgrammers>,
> and to some GTK+ tutorial (GNOME developer screencasts?).
>
> We're also missing documentation on libswitchboard and Contractor;
> creation of Switchboard plugs via libpantheon is kinda sorta documented,
> but we've ditched that for libswitchboard and there are no docs on that in
> the website. Gotta fix that.
>
> Finally, we have Contractor; we used to have .contract file format
> documentation in the old website but it's now gone.
> The Granite wrapper API is *sort of* documented in the Granite valadoc,
> but the version in the website is pre-0.2.2 and doesn't include some useful
> 0.2.2+ symbols.
> The D-bus API is documented in Contractor 
> specification<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ijsc57vYEHBZxVdM0fRgCuBX2NbdRDv1kuOj0OG75v4/edit?usp=sharing>only,
>  which is obscure and nobody will ever find.
> I have example code for both the Vala wrapper and raw API in
> https://code.launchpad.net/~elementary-pantheon/contractor/contractor-clibut 
> that's a very obscure location too.
>

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] What's up with Pantheon Notify?

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

2014-02-21 20:51 GMT+04:00 Tom Beckmann :

> Yes, the plan is to make it a plugin, however I'm not sure whether the
> design that is currently implemented is the one we were going to go with.
>

Last time I checked this document was the pinnacle of Dan's, mine, and
probably other people's efforts:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/14ThRy7wwGrlpD0EGvI970fn4NsiQJq4vLgb16oZv-Yk/edit#


> At least I think I remember discussions about a new super awesome design
> which will make everything better and somehow incorporate some sort of
> notification center. But I'm not sure if we're still going for this. I
> haven't seen any designs for this direction so far.
>

Dan, could you comment on this? (Also, Y U NO visit IRC?)

Last time I checked the whole "notification center" concept was not highly
regarded around here because
1) It's painful to see how Android users cursed with a notification center
scroll through their entire social networks dump just to check if a
specific event has occurred
2) It's not the notifications but action items you don't want to miss, so
we're better off with showing the number of action items in the dock badge

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] What's up with Pantheon Notify?

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

I see Gala is about to get plugins support!
https://code.launchpad.net/~gala-dev/gala/plugins/+merge/199323

This is interesting, I wonder if notifications could be implemented as a
plugin.

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[Elementary-dev-community] What's up with Pantheon Notify?

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Hey guys,

I've noticed we still use Ubuntu's notify-osd in Isis builds. What happened
to pantheon-notify? It was my favorite change scheduled for Isis, because
notify-osd is pretty broken UX-wise.

Last time I checked the standalone implementation was abandoned and the
code integrated in Gala to avoid the window management mess that created.
There was also unofficial notification log feature sprinkled on top,
instead of which dock badges will be used. That still lives in a separate
branch somewhere, as far as I can tell.

Was there any progress on this recently? Is pantheon-notify still a goal
for Isis?
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Isis Beta1

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

2014-02-02 7:41 GMT+04:00 Cameron Norman :

> It looks like at the Isis meeting, you guys decided against Tent
> integration (at least for the time being). Should that 
> blueprint<https://blueprints.launchpad.net/elementaryos/+spec/tent-integration>not
>  be untargeted for beta1 (and Isis completely)?
>

I've untargeted the blueprint from Isis, this is not a realistic goal for
it.

That said, I don't understand how is Tent support would be different from
existing "sync&share" services like Dropbox or Ubuntu One, and how would
the user experience differ from those.

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Google Summer of Code Ideas

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

2014-02-20 17:18 GMT+04:00 Pepijn de Vos :

It would be a huge help to have bugs labeled as easy and/or having a mentor
> available. See Mozilla for an example:
> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Introduction
>

Actually, we at least used to have something similar - the easy bugs and
the ones good for starters were labeled "bitesize". It seems we still have
42 such bugs open, see
https://bugs.launchpad.net/elementary/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize

If this is not documented in the "get involved" page, that should be fixed
as well. Also IMHO we should link to "get involved" from the developer
guide and note that working on existing apps is preferable over making yet
more of them.

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Hey guys just letting you know

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

On the topic of the article, D-link routers have a number of publicly known
backdoors, and I'm sure that even if you close them manually, the firmware
is still exploitable. So don't consider local networks with d-links trusted.

In fact, better not consider local networks a trusted environment at all.

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Google Summer of Code Ideas

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

2014-02-19 18:32 GMT+04:00 Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff <
ser...@elementaryos.org>:

> Finally, we have Contractor; we used to have .contract file format
> documentation in the old website but it's now gone.
> The Granite wrapper API is *sort of* documented in the Granite valadoc,
> but the version in the website is pre-0.2.2 and doesn't include some useful
> 0.2.2+ symbols.
>

Actually they're probably not 0.2.2+, they're 0.2.3+, I have no idea why
though.

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[Elementary-dev-community] Fwd: Google Summer of Code Ideas

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

2014-02-19 3:33 GMT+04:00 marco benzi :

 If you could make a list I'd be more than happy to help!
>
> Marco
> -
>

Please use "reply to all" next time, the message didn't go to the list.

We have an all-encompassing wishlist at
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wFTYGaP9RR5JwT4qQfix84-TfeFaDNX9iFviVtuCAi4/edit

But for a start we need to improve the current developer documentation:

In the dev guide we should at least link to
http://valadoc.elementaryos.org/granite/index.htm for API reference, link
to Vala tutorial <https://live.gnome.org/Vala/Tutorial> and
migration<https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Vala/ValaForJavaProgrammers>
guides <https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Vala/ValaForCSharpProgrammers>, and
to some GTK+ tutorial (GNOME developer screencasts?).

We're also missing documentation on libswitchboard and Contractor; creation
of Switchboard plugs via libpantheon is kinda sorta documented, but we've
ditched that for libswitchboard and there are no docs on that in the
website. Gotta fix that.

Finally, we have Contractor; we used to have .contract file format
documentation in the old website but it's now gone.
The Granite wrapper API is *sort of* documented in the Granite valadoc, but
the version in the website is pre-0.2.2 and doesn't include some useful
0.2.2+ symbols.
The D-bus API is documented in Contractor
specification<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ijsc57vYEHBZxVdM0fRgCuBX2NbdRDv1kuOj0OG75v4/edit?usp=sharing>only,
which is obscure and nobody will ever find.
I have example code for both the Vala wrapper and raw API in
https://code.launchpad.net/~elementary-pantheon/contractor/contractor-clibut
that's a very obscure location too.
And we have no UX guidelines for Contractor written, but that's a task for
the design team.

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[Elementary-dev-community] Apparently Luna works on VIA GPUs!

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Hey guys,

Just a fun fact: turns out Luna works fine on VIA GPUs so old that they're
not supported by the official binary blobs! Here's a screenshot:
http://ubuntuone.com/4wwfZTtaVs7PmrQTFvgO76

It doesn't exploit 3D acceleration so Gala renders everything via LLVMpipe,
but it doesn't fry the elderly CPU in the process! And if I swap Gala for
Metacity it can play fullscreen videos from YouTube too.

Props and kudos to people who worked on hardware support in Ubuntu 12.04;
I'm pretty sure they never had access to such GPUs but they made them work
out of the box nevertheless. Even the Plymouth boot screen is rendered in
the usual fancy way - and I'm sure OpenChrome KMS wasn't baked back then,
so it's some kind of magic they use there...

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Google Summer of Code Ideas

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

We're missing a ton of other docs in the website too, but you know how it
goes - writing docs is boring and everybody has better things to do.
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[Elementary-dev-community] Misc Contractor Stuff

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Hey guys,

I did a fair bit of digging and finally added Contractor integration for
Thunderbird, so you can now send files by email using Thunderbird from any
Contractor-enabled app.

It can be installed from elementary Daily PPA as "thunderbird-contracts"
package, and the code can be found at
lp:~elementary-os/contractor/thunderbird-contracts<https://code.launchpad.net/+branch/%7Eelementary-os/contractor/thunderbird-contracts>

Thunderbird's CLI is so arcane that it seems that NOBODY got it right
before me, and I might have missed something as well. I don't support files
with commas in filenames because that's the delimiter Thunderbird uses and
I haven't found a way to escape it; that's the only known limitation.

On a happier note, thanks to RavecotFX I'm now talking to Clem of Linux
Mint fame about phasing out nemo-actions (fork of nautilus-actions) which
is pretty much the same thing as Contractor but specific to Nautilus/Nemo
and replacing it with Contractor. This means deduplication of effort and
(hopefully) more contracts!

Speaking of which, we still have painfully few Contractor service providers
as well as clients! I've added Contractor support to Noise myself, but we
really need better documentation in the website as well as some visibility
for the effort. I could cover the docs if somebody explains me how to write
things in this new website XD

As for visibility, how about holding a Contractor enablement sprint?

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Google Summer of Code Ideas

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Well, there's a number of visual programming environments out there already
and I can't see how this relates to elementary specifically. It's more of a
project for the Raspberry Pi community.

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Google Summer of Code Ideas

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

I've looked up Automator in Wikipedia and I can't see how that's related to
Contractor. Contractor is designed to be operated by the user, its actions
are not designed to be automatable.

Actually, automating such actions is an unrelated problem, but IMHO shell
scripting suits that use case just fine already.

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Google Summer of Code Ideas

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

FYI we already have a time machine application, Cronopete. The interesting
work items for it are
1) btrfs snapshots or even old copy-on-write versions of files outside of
snapshots as storage medium, instead of a dedicated partition and
2) Integration into applications, much like for Contractor clients
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Google Summer of Code Ideas

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

OK, I have an idea that's been collecting the metaphorical dust for many a
month.

In a nutshell, the current "Open or Save?" dialogs in web browsers that
they show when encountering a non-web file are terrible; how can I choose
if I want to keep the file before I even see it? And why the hell can't I
keep the file without re-downloading it?

The proper UX would be to open all files that are not web pages in a
dedicated viewer, and the dedicated viewer should then allow to save the
file for later after you see the contents and possibly edit it.
This should apply even if the browser sort of supports this file type, e.g.
for images - web browsers make for terrible image viewers!

AFAIR the basic idea got the green light from Dan, I believe he will reply
to this thread if he has anything to add :)
I think had a slightly more complete writeup here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kfI-JB80egEmix0HIJkDkDtMHGF_xeQMqQANqIxxnlo/edit

This sounds like a trivial feature, but it would make worlds of difference
and it is not trivial to implement because you need a
FreeDesktop.org-vetted protocol for signalling "show the save button" from
browser to apps, you need support for this workflow in both web browser and
apps, you need to handle legacy apps and be able to tell which are which,
you need the "keep this file" action to be extensible and system-defined so
that we could do things like keeping all viewed files for a week without
altering the apps, and a metric ton of other details.

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] elementary, ubuntu, and debian

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Tristan, it's not that simple and fact is, Debian or even the upstream
projects are unlikely to be NSA-proof. You should really watch the
recording of "NSA operation ORCHESTRA" keynote from FOSDEM as soon as it's
uploaded.

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Anyone coming to FOSDEM 2014?

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

2014-02-05 Tristan Petersen :

> Very nice! I have been looking into firefox OS myself. I'd love to use a
> phone that has open source as its base.
>

Have you looked into Jolla's Sailfish? They haven't released the UI code
yet but they are very open-source-friendly and upstream all their
contributions in the respective projects, mostly Mer and Nemo. The UI will
probably be open-sourced later on.

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Anyone coming to FOSDEM 2014?

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Oh, I also got to toy with ZTE OPEN running Firefox OS. That thing is
impressive for its specs. Can't wait till Firefox OS hits the local market,
Android monopoly on low-end smartphones where it performs even worse than
usual is upsetting.
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Anyone coming to FOSDEM 2014?

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Okay, it's there and back again! I've just arrived home, got only 1 hour of
sleep on the plane, so take everything I say in the next 18 hours with a
grain of salt.

FOSDEM was tons of fun! I've kicked it off by donating to GNOME - "Hey
guys, I'm from elementary, we need you to keep up the good work on the
libraries!", to Libre Graphics Magazine - "Oh, you're from elementary? You
guys have some great designers!" (btw, great magazine, I definitely
recommend it to everyone in here who's interested in design), to TOR just
to get an awesome Snowden
poster,
and finally running into a guy from Jolla totally by accident, finding out
the Jollla schedule for the day and then sieging him with questions - "Y U
NO ship to Russia?!" and so on.

I really look up to the ex-Nokia developers and designers who went on to
found Jolla - Maemo was a-w-e-s-o-m-e and Sailfish is going to be even
better! So I proceeded to attend their talk about libhybris and then their
community roundtable (it seems my experience making distros and poking
security has come in handy) and finally a community dinner, whee! Now I
know everything I ever wanted about their phone, even got to play with one
for a while. Also chatted with the developers (my N900 caused quite some
nostalgia), plus I got a free hat with "Jolla" on it. Fanboy's dream come
true, that!

I kinda missed having an elementary tee, I guess I should have ordered one
in advance. No instant props out of nowhere! Looking back, I don't think I
ever did anything not worthy of a representative of the project (for
once!), so hopefully next year...
Too bad nobody else of ours made it there - or just never told me? I'd love
to meet you guys in person. In your absence I had to hit up random Mozilla
guys and discussing fun stuff like Rust and Serval. When I could find them,
anyway :(

And man, the talks! There were just so many of them! I'll be watching the
ones I missed later on the recordings  for sure.
No way you can attend all the interesting ones in just two days. For the
security- and privacy-concerned like me I especially recommend the "NSA
operation ORCHESTRA" keynote, it's great. Software archeology also, for the
general audience. And "What's cooking in GStreamer" will be interesting to
people who work with it.

By the way, Brussels itself is very nice - amazing sculptures everywhere! A
lot of lions among them, too. The royal square alone can be studied for
hours. Definitely recommended.
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Sample contractor client

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Dunno, looks fine from here. Or maybe my OS instance just fixes itself when
exposed to my questioning gaze.


2014-01-30 Daniel Foré :

> Sergey,
>
> I think it's pretty common knowledge that the daily PPA breaks Luna
> Cheers,
>
> Daniel Foré
> elementaryos.org
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 3:02 AM, Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff <
> ser...@elementaryos.org> wrote:
>
>>  2014-01-30 Heath Paddock :
>>
>>> Does this require libgranite2?
>>>
>>
>> Yes, it does. This is one of the two new symbols I added a while ago; I'm
>> not sure why they're exclusive to libgranite2 - they're just additions, not
>> breaks - but looks like they are. Oh well.
>>
>> libgranite2 should be available on Luna from Daily PPA (or maybe not
>> anymore - Cody was looking to delete them).
>>
>> If you can't get your hands on libgranite2... The required function is
>> trivial, so you can copy-paste it from
>> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~elementary-pantheon/granite/granite/view/head:/lib/Services/ContractorProxy.vala#L227and
>>  toy with the example on libgranite1.
>>
>> Also, the compile line in the comments section at the top of the file
>>> uses the wrong file name.
>>>
>>
>> I'll fix that and add a note about libgranite2 momentarily. On very
>> recent distros it may require gee-0.8 also instead of gee-1.0.
>>
>> --
>> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
>>
>
>


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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Sample contractor client

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

2014-01-30 Heath Paddock :

> Does this require libgranite2?
>

Yes, it does. This is one of the two new symbols I added a while ago; I'm
not sure why they're exclusive to libgranite2 - they're just additions, not
breaks - but looks like they are. Oh well.

libgranite2 should be available on Luna from Daily PPA (or maybe not
anymore - Cody was looking to delete them).

If you can't get your hands on libgranite2... The required function is
trivial, so you can copy-paste it from
http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~elementary-pantheon/granite/granite/view/head:/lib/Services/ContractorProxy.vala#L227and
toy with the example on libgranite1.

Also, the compile line in the comments section at the top of the file uses
> the wrong file name.
>

I'll fix that and add a note about libgranite2 momentarily. On very recent
distros it may require gee-0.8 also instead of gee-1.0.

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Sample contractor client

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

I've also added an example in Python that uses the D-bus API directly. This
should be useful outside Vala/Granite ecosystem.


2014-01-29 Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff 

> Hey guys,
>
> I've noticed we have no example for using the Contractor API via Granite
> wrapper, so I've hacked one together. It's a simple command-line utility
> written in Vala.
>
> The source code is BSD-licensed and can be found at
> https://code.launchpad.net/~elementary-pantheon/contractor/contractor-cli
>
> It has no build system as of yet; I'm not sure if it needs one because
> it's just an example and not something useful in real life. The compilation
> is just one valac line anyway.
>
> I hope this lowers the entry barrier for Contractor adoption.
>
> Cheers,
> --
> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
>



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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Anyone coming to FOSDEM 2014?

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Unfortunately Fabian is busy and won't be able make it.

Corentin, please email me if you're coming, I'll give you some contact info
so we can meet up.

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[Elementary-dev-community] Sample contractor client

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Hey guys,

I've noticed we have no example for using the Contractor API via Granite
wrapper, so I've hacked one together. It's a simple command-line utility
written in Vala.

The source code is BSD-licensed and can be found at
https://code.launchpad.net/~elementary-pantheon/contractor/contractor-cli

It has no build system as of yet; I'm not sure if it needs one because it's
just an example and not something useful in real life. The compilation is
just one valac line anyway.

I hope this lowers the entry barrier for Contractor adoption.

Cheers,
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Anyone coming to FOSDEM 2014?

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Hey guys,

Just a quick update - looks like I won't be giving a talk after all. There
were almost 3 times more applications than slots this year, but I was
oblivious to that and never bothered pitching my talk. Le sigh. But I've
already bought plane tickets and it's too late to back out, so I'll be
attending it anyway if I get the visa.

Looking forward to meeting you guys!
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[Elementary-dev-community] Anyone coming to FOSDEM 2014?

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Hey guys,

I'm going to attend FOSDEM 2014 and give a lightning talk on the
performance optimization work we've been doing in elementary OS.

Is anybody else is going to attend? It'd be sweet to meet you guys in
person!
It's also a great keysigning opportunity for such a geographically
distributed team. Keys have to be submitted in advance though, so make sure
to read https://fosdem.org/2014/keysigning/

See you!
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] GTK 3.10 has landed

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Good news guys! As  pointed out in IRC, GTK 3.10 has landed into
Ubuntu Trusty main repository!

http://www.webupd8.org/2013/12/gtk-310-lands-in-ubuntu-1404-trusty-tahr.html

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Wingpanel and Indicators, future?

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Having indicators post the UI over D-bus and let anything draw them is
actually a pretty good idea, though I dislike the current "dbusmenu +
libido" implementation - it's really hacky. It will allow embedding
indicators in application titlebars in maximized or fullscreen state - I
recall Cassidy mentioning such an idea, is it still pursued?

I doubt indicators will force Upstart dependency on us. Upstart is not a
huge interdependent mess like systemd, it's just a way to start things up
on demand. We have Cerbere to substitute it on non-ubuntu platforms.

Also, some indicator backends are really complex, and I'd rather not
reinvent the wheel yet again... and the same goes for plugs, by the way.

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] GTK 3.10 has landed

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

HAIL RICOTZ!!!


2013/11/27 Cody Garver 

> Rico did the heavy lifting, all hail ricotz
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 11:58 AM, teemperor  wrote:
>
>> Wooho, cody saves the day :)
>>
>> Am Mi, 27. Nov, 2013 um 6:57 ,Daniel Foré 
>> schrieb:
>>
>>  Yo yo yo, dev homies
>>
>> Cody just produced new ISOs that contain GTK 3.10! Most of you probably
>> know what all that entails, so I won't waste your time. But let it be known
>> that we can take advantage of all that goodness in Isis!
>> —
>> Sent from Mailbox <https://www.dropbox.com/mailbox> for iPhone
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Cody Garver
>
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>


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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Media Coverage on elementary OS Luna

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

It's cool to see the more mainstream press finally catching on. We do have
kind of an identity crisis though.

Also, we really should put up the "elementary is never capitalized" rule
somewhere in the website if we want it followed.


2013/11/26 David Gomes 

> Front page of Wired as "New Linux Operating System Is an Open Source Apple
> OS X".
>
> http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/11/elementaryos/
>
> Not the best of an article in my honest opinion, but Wired is Wired
> nonetheless.
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 3:41 PM, Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff <
> ser...@elementaryos.org> wrote:
>
>> Oh look, we made it to MacWorld, and they consider elementary the
>> second-greatest OS out there (which is forgivable for a Mac-centric
>> newsblog):
>>
>> http://www.macworld.com/article/2048021/if-i-had-to-leave-the-mac-id-switch-to-elementary-os.html
>>
>> The popular MakeUseOf also covered Luna recently - according to them,
>> "It’s a great OS that is feature rich, works brilliantly and is super fast."
>>
>> http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/looking-for-a-beautiful-easy-to-use-linux-distro-try-elementary-os-luna/
>>
>> It's good to see that popular websites are finally catching on :)
>>
>
>


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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Saving and restoring app sessions

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

In addition to the client-side mechanism I described above, here's another
facility that may be of interest, called "Checkpoint-Restore":
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=home
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] The elementary documentation weekend!

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

I know of one item I'd really like to see documented because I don't
understand it without docs. It's our CMake commands and config options. I
never knew some projects have "make valadocs" command and nobody seems to
know why it fails and what dependencies it's missing. It'd also be nice to
include -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Debug and related generic trickery in the guide.

Regarding the HIG, it'd be nice to include code examples/templates
implementing the guidelines, where applicable.

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Python API for panel applets?

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Slingshot is not an actual indicator, it's just pretending.

Ubuntu have intentionally limited application indicators to menus only to
force some degree of consistency on them. In time it has backfired and now
Canonical have come up with a library that provides hacks to get arbitrary
widgets into their intentionally constrained menus.

The better idea would be to write a system indicator as opposed to
application indicator. You'd be able to use any GTK widget there. I'm not
sure what kind of embedding is used there, I haven't seen any docs on them,
but I suspect you'll need Vala or C for that, and we strongly prefer Vala.

However, it might be better to check your vision with the design team
first. We're moving away from non-system-wide indicators. Also, we need
some system indicators customized (
http://elementaryos.deviantart.com/gallery/37412343), getting that done
would be stellar.

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Media Coverage on elementary OS Luna

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Oh look, we made it to MacWorld, and they consider elementary the
second-greatest OS out there (which is forgivable for a Mac-centric
newsblog):
http://www.macworld.com/article/2048021/if-i-had-to-leave-the-mac-id-switch-to-elementary-os.html

The popular MakeUseOf also covered Luna recently - according to them, "It’s
a great OS that is feature rich, works brilliantly and is super fast."
http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/looking-for-a-beautiful-easy-to-use-linux-distro-try-elementary-os-luna/

It's good to see that popular websites are finally catching on :)
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Saving and restoring app sessions

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Also I'm not sure that saving state is a good idea for Switchboard in the
first place, let alone a realistic one.

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Saving and restoring app sessions

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

FYI there's an already-in-place mechanism in Glib.Application and therefore
Granite.Application to fully save a state of an application and restore it
later. This can be triggered by e.g. D-bus signal via the Glib.Application
D-bus interfaces provided by any of our apps.

This is a very tempting shortcut at first glance. However, it might save
the state a bit too fully - it serializes everything up to the the widget
states and restores *everything* later, by which time the environment may
have drastically changed and the saved state is no longer relevant.

It might prove useful, but has to be thoroughly investigated and used with
care.

I'll copy-paste this message to the bug report for completeness.


2013/9/27 Daniel Foré 

> Hey everyone,
>
> As this is the second release where we don't have a minimize button, I
> think we really need to make sure we're pushing app state saving by
> default.
>
> I've created a master bug report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1232112
>
> As always, feel free to add any apps here that it applies to.
>
> --
> Best Regards,
>
> Daniel Foré
>
> elementaryos.org
>
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>


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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] This might be a farewell

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

2013/9/26 Cody Garver 

> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rule_of_Two
>
>
Thanks, I'll be on the lookout for murder attempts from my apprentice.

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[Elementary-dev-community] GStreamer 1.2

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Hey guys,

GStreamer 1.2 has been released a few days ago. It is a feature release,
and there some API additions that might interest us, in particular:

 • GL texture upload conversion meta for allowing different
   buffer types to be converted to an OpenGL texture
 • The stream-start even has an optional group-id field now to signal
   all streams that should be played together
 • GstVideoDecoder/Encoder has new ::flush() vfunc to replace the
   ill-defined ::reset() vfunc.
 • The URI query allows to query the redirected URI now.

I expect the first two items to be useful for Audience. Grouping streams
should greatly simplify supporting e.g. external soundtrack files (
https://bugs.launchpad.net/audience/+bug/905307).

The full release announcements can be found here:
http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/gstreamer-devel/2013-September/043124.html
Make sure to at least skim the "Things to look out for" section of it.

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] This might be a farewell

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Just to clarify, I haven't suddenly decided to quit. You're still welcome
to reach out to me if you have any interesting problems you want me to
solve. Emailing this address should be a reliable way to reach me.


Hey guys,
>
> As some (if not most) of you already noticed, I don't frequently do
> elementary-related development or even show up on IRC anymore. I find
> myself more and more out of the loop as time passes, which renders me
> unable to fulfill my self-proclaimed role of OS architect.
>
> Besides, I feel that my job here is done.[1] The project doesn't truly
> need on me anymore, since I have passed on most of the "unique"
> knowledge/experience I possessed, and elementary already has people who
> know any specific area way better than I do anyway.
>
> Finally, turns out it's some boring to be a guru. I do miss the personal
> growth, the process of discovering and mastering the subject and learning
> to solve new kinds of problems.
>
> Thus I'm diverting my efforts to where they're more sorely needed, and
> diving into other fields of IT which I haven't yet mastered.
>
> Also, I figured I'll be looking for opportunities of full-time employment
> in a year's time or so, and I can already imagine myself saying "...and I
> spent a few years in open-source development, but I have no evidence to
> back that statement whatsoever. Also I have no formal reports on the
> quality of my work." So, while the memory of my past deeds is still fresh
> (more or less), anything that might prevent the above scenario is greatly
> appreciated.
>
> Yours faithfully,
> --
> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
> Proud Contributor @ elementary
>
> [1] Okay, there's still a couple of things I want to influence, but
> they're mostly design-related, like FIX SWITCHING BETWEEN THE WINDOWS OF
> THE SAME APP VIA PLANK FOR DANRABBITS SAKE!!!
>

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[Elementary-dev-community] This might be a farewell

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Hey guys,

As some (if not most) of you already noticed, I don't frequently do
elementary-related development or even show up on IRC anymore. I find
myself more and more out of the loop as time passes, which renders me
unable to fulfill my self-proclaimed role of OS architect.

Besides, I feel that my job here is done.[1] The project doesn't truly need
on me anymore, since I have passed on most of the "unique"
knowledge/experience I possessed, and elementary already has people who
know any specific area way better than I do anyway.

Finally, turns out it's some boring to be a guru. I do miss the personal
growth, the process of discovering and mastering the subject and learning
to solve new kinds of problems.

Thus I'm diverting my efforts to where they're more sorely needed, and
diving into other fields of IT which I haven't yet mastered.

Also, I figured I'll be looking for opportunities of full-time employment
in a year's time or so, and I can already imagine myself saying "...and I
spent a few years in open-source development, but I have no evidence to
back that statement whatsoever. Also I have no formal reports on the
quality of my work." So, while the memory of my past deeds is still fresh
(more or less), anything that might prevent the above scenario is greatly
appreciated.

Yours faithfully,
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Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
Proud Contributor @ elementary

[1] Okay, there's still a couple of things I want to influence, but they're
mostly design-related, like FIX SWITCHING BETWEEN THE WINDOWS OF THE SAME
APP VIA PLANK FOR DANRABBITS SAKE!!!
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Gtk.Stock has been deprecated

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

That search turned up some *_stock methods in Granite, e.g.
granite_widgets_tool_button_with_menu_new_from_stock()
I assume we should deprecate them in Granite as well.
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Gtk.Stock has been deprecated

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

I've run a recursive search for "stock" on all 114 branches owned by
~elementary-apps and ~elementary-pantheon so that you don't have to check
them one by one. Here are the results: http://pastebin.com/mU7nQyu6

Here's the script that performs the search, shall you need to run it on
another huge list of branches: http://pastebin.com/YpDb24yn

If you need to search through just one directory, just run
$ grep -ir "stock" "/path/to/directory"
although the search I ran should get most projects covered.

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Bake Build System

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

2013/9/15 Julien 

> sudo apt-get install maki
>

I wonder if you can declare runtime dependencies in Bake, such as Maki in
this case.

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Bake Build System

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

I can confirm that at least the generated .deb's work as expected.
"make install" and "bake install" are evil and you should forget they exist
if you don't like hunting totally mysterious bugs for hours that ultimately
turn out to be stale versions of files you long forgot existed.

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Bake Build System

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Julien, thanks for stepping up to investigate Bake. It had to be done :)

I believe migrating to Bake would be very beneficial since it lowers the
entry barrier and lets developers focus on code. I'd like to hear from
developers on the matter, though.

I do have some gripes with the current state of Bake (e.g.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bake/+bug/1225637), but does look eaier and
better suted for most of our use cases than CMake even in its current form.

Off the top of my head, its built-in .deb package generation is very basic
and incomplete, just like CMake's one. In other words, it will always be
incomplete and buggy if Bake continues to try to do it on its own.
It should instead call upon debhelper that will do the heavy lifting. It
seems the work on this is already started:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bake/+bug/1117755
But we can properly package Bake-powered apps and make daily builds of them
with waaay less hacks than it would be required for e.g. WAF even until
debhelper support is added.
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Bake Build System

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

>
> There are a lot of build system out there. This one seems cool and clean
> but it's probably too bleeding edge. I suggest you to take a look at waf.
> Lots of project are switching to it.
>
We've been through WAF already. Oh, what a nightmare it was!

WAF is very basic and doesn't have even gettext support, so you have to
write that yourself in Python. As your project evolves, you need more and
more custom handling because WAF is so very primitive and your build system
ends up being a bunch of entirely custom Python scripts.

Not only reimplementing the whole build system in Python for every project
is pointlessly time-consuming, but it also means that you have as many
build systems as there are project maintainers evolving in parallel with
little to no code sharing. So each project has to go through the same
pitfalls instead of just using collaboratively-written time-proven shared
code. E.

Oh, and custom WAF-based build system also means that distributors have no
idea how to work with it. Each project requires entirely custom handling.
So your project can't be packaged by an average maintainer because the
distribution's helper scripts won't work with it. You need a guru who *wrote
* the helper scripts just to package your project.

So, been there, done that, not going to return.

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] New switchboard plugin

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

>
> If not, I will try to upload it into the Ubuntu store because an easy (and
> free) disks formatting tool is missing right now.
>

Doesn't Ubuntu ship GNOME Disk Utility aka Palimpsest by default? I'm sure
it used to.

IMHO the plug looks good already and it'd be nice to have in the default
installation.

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[Elementary-dev-community] In case you need GNOME 3.10

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Hey guys,

In case you need GNOME 3.10 on Ubuntu Saucy (13.10), there is a
semi-official PPA with GNOME 3.10 components that are considered stable.
See
http://www.webupd8.org/2013/09/new-gnome-310-ppa-announced-for-ubuntu.htmlfor
more info.

Keep in mind that the state of those packages does not necessarily reflect
the state of GNOME 3.10 in the forthcoming Ubuntu 14.04, because it's not
clear if the PPA packages carry the usual Debian and Ubuntu
distributor-level patches.

Happy hacking!
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] In case you need GNOME 3.10

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

 shnatsel, all distributor patches are ported, with an exception of
an ubuntu specific gtk patch "ubuntu_gtk_custom_menu_items.patch" --
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/+bug/1039476


2013/9/12 Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff 

> Hey guys,
>
> In case you need GNOME 3.10 on Ubuntu Saucy (13.10), there is a
> semi-official PPA with GNOME 3.10 components that are considered stable.
> See
> http://www.webupd8.org/2013/09/new-gnome-310-ppa-announced-for-ubuntu.htmlfor 
> more info.
>
> Keep in mind that the state of those packages does not necessarily reflect
> the state of GNOME 3.10 in the forthcoming Ubuntu 14.04, because it's not
> clear if the PPA packages carry the usual Debian and Ubuntu
> distributor-level patches.
>
> Happy hacking!
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> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
> OS architect @ elementary
>



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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Moving the About dialog of apps to a menu entry in dock launchers

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Libunitu quicklists are only available while the app is running, and
they're not actually standardized. I'm not sure if the additional shortcut
spec in .desktop files is an XDG standard or not (yet), but they seem to be
a better candidate - static, always-there shortcuts that are defined in a
more implementation-independent way.

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Isis Planning

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

2013/9/5 Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff 

> 2013/9/3 Andrea Basso 
>
>> However intriguing discussing these points may be, they're really are
>> *too* many, we should probably split then up in more meetings or hours
>> later we could still be hallway through.
>>
> This is probably true, so I encourage everyone to comment on the agenda
> doc and read existing comments on it before the meeting to save time.
>

In fact, please please please do it because many items on the agenda
require some research for which we don't have the time during the meeting.

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Isis Planning

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

2013/9/3 Andrea Basso 

> However intriguing discussing these points may be, they're really are
> *too* many, we should probably split then up in more meetings or hours
> later we could still be hallway through.
>
This is probably true, so I encourage everyone to comment on the agenda doc
and read existing comments on it before the meeting to save time.

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] about TDD (Test Driven Development)

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

>
> Please make your energy useful in more useful ways
>

Dear TTD proponents, while you keep spending lots of time on writing these
mails and the time of all the other devs on reading them, ~alourie is
looking into Autopilot and experimenting with writing tests using it.

I encourage you to follow his example. Please stop wasting everyone's time
and go read Autopilot
tutorial<http://unity.ubuntu.com/autopilot/tutorial/tutorial.html>and
write some tests instead of emails. You can find existing tests for
GTK
apps 
here<https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-testcase/ubuntu-autopilot-tests/trunk>shall
you need them.

You can meet ~alourie in #elementary-dev if you want to catch up with what
he's found so far. He's online most of the time, just keep in mind he's in
GMT+4 timezone.

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] On compiler warnings

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

So we can suppress C warnings altogether - good!

I hear Midori has moved to CMake (W00T FINALLY!!!), so we could probably
just copy the relevant snippents from its CMakeLists.txt? What are those
snippets exactly?

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] about TDD (Test Driven Development)

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

We don't write backends so we shouldn't have anything to unit test. By far
the most of the code we write deals with GUI and thus should be tested
using Autopilot.

Even if we do have something to *unit* test, the added complexity, higher
entry barrier and the time spent writing first the unit testing framework
and then the tests is unlikely to pay off.

If you disagree with the above, you're welcome to prove me wrong though.
200+ messages to mailing list have not convinced any of the core devs so
far.

You might have better luck convincing people if you come up with a unit
testing framework, cover an app with unit tests (if you manage to find
something to *unit* test in the first place) and demonstrate that it really
actually saves time in a real-life scenario.

But I expect simply helping us figure out Autopilot and write UI-driven
tests to be much more productive. Either way, the choice is yours.

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[Elementary-dev-community] On compiler warnings

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Hey guys,

I've had a look at what our programs output at build time, and turns out
the build output consists of a mix of from gcc and valac warnings, so it's
hard to make out which error comes from which compiler. To make matters
worse, the build output is dominated by "Building some_long_filename -with
-a -terribly -long -list -of -parameters" lines that successfully obscure
any kind of warnings.

It seems you have to look really hard to see any useful compiler warnings.
Obviously, this is not how compiler warnings to be presented to be useful.

Is there any way to separate the warnings from the progress messages and
print it, say, in the end of the build process? I believe this would
enhance readability immensely.

I hear that GCC warnings can be safely ignored in Vala programs, but I
couldn't google up ay prooflinks on that point. Does anybody have any
insight on this point? FYI, GCC warnings (as opposed to valac ones) seem to
make up more than half of warnings in many of our projects.

If they can be safely ignored, perhaps it's a good idea to suppress them in
CMake. If GCC warnings are actually important, it could help if we
separated them from valac ones.

Thoughts?

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Luna on ARM

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

2013/8/28 Albert Palacios Jimenez 

>
> How can we test it?
>
> I want to run Luna on Raspberry and document it, can I install Raspbian
> and then add the elementary ppa?
>

Somewhat. Not directly, because Raspberry Pi CPU has a very old instruction
set, which is not supported by Ubuntu. However, you can still add the PPA
and build the packages from source using tools like apt-build, that should
work for any architecture thanks to Vala and Glib.

I suspect that compilation is going to take several days on the Pi, so you
might prefer to use cross-compilation on x86 or an emulated chroot on x86
using https://wiki.debian.org/QemuUserEmulation, along the lines of
https://wiki.debian.org/ArmHardFloatChroot except you need ARMv4 for the Pi.

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[Elementary-dev-community] Luna on ARM

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Hey guys,

Just a heads-up regarding ARM support in Luna: our stable PPA got armhf
enablement recently and everything (except Pantheon Greeter, see
https://bugs.launchpad.net/pantheon-greeter/+bug/1214833) should run fine
on ARM, at least in theory. You'd need decent GPU drivers though, because
Gala requires hardware acceleration, and software rendering on ARM is in a
pitiful state.

However, our OS-specific patches repository did not get ARM enablement, and
it's unlikely to get it anytime soon because we patched some really
heavyweight things like Qt, which take way more time to build than
Canonical's armhf enablement conditions require. This means we can't make
OS images for ARM, but you can still install the apps on an existing Ubuntu
installation. You'll miss out on the leaner and faster core, which is a
pity (and doubly so on a resource-constrained system), but at least there's
a chance of finding an OS image that works for your ARM hardware in case of
Ubuntu and almost no chance for any other distro.

Enthusiasts can still build ARM images by themselves if they have the
hardware to run the build process or if they know their way around QEMU
chroots (along the lines of https://wiki.debian.org/ArmHardFloatChroot and
https://wiki.debian.org/QemuUserEmulation but for Ubuntu). They'd have to
use something like apt-build to update to later versions of our patched
packages, but such updates will probably be rare and all in all it should
work.

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] [Merge] lp:~elementary-dev-community/wingpanel/bug-fix-1007630 into lp:wingpanel

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

It does fix the bug for me.
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] [Merge] lp:~elementary-dev-community/wingpanel/bug-fix-1007630 into lp:wingpanel

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

How, o how many times shall I tell you to use elementary-test-merge for 
reproducible builds and testing, instead of doing everything manually? Are you 
not bored to do the download-compile-run cycles manually yet?

sudo apt-get install elementary-testing-scripts
elementary-test-merge 
https://code.launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community/wingpanel/bug-fix-1007630/+merge/181999

And it compiles and installs. Please don't bother doing all this manually.
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Future of Wingpanel

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

2013/8/26 Chris Timberlake 

> *First, some indicators (e.g. keyboard and network) are really complex,
> and it took even Canonical over a year to port them to Ayatana API and get
> them more or less right. Moreover, user switching and power indicators deal
> with security, and I'm not sure we have any PolicyKit gurus to audit that.
>
> *
> *Second, we'd be making up *yet another* applet API. Come on! Isn't there
> enough of that out there already? Can we just reuse some API like XFCE
> panel applets or something? Do we really have to reimplement all those
> things yet again?*
>
> I think one of the major issues we encounter is that current AppIndicators
> don't support full widgets. In the case of Ayatana, it only supports
> Gtk.Menu. This means that very advanced and cool indicators would not be
> possible. Take for example GrowlVoice for OSX. http://www.growlvoice.com/ This
> is not something that would be possible in the current Ayatana way of doing
> things. Reinventing the wheel isn't a huge issue if you're improving the
> wheel greatly, imo.
>
> As for Ayatana, I don't see why we don't just make an indicator system,
> then make an indicator that houses Ayatana for backwards compatibility.
> Then we don't have to redo anything. We just have to put the current
> Ayatana system into a new Indicator Plug, and bam.
>

FYI, AppIndicators were introduced exactly for this purpose - make
implementing the deeply misguided design like that GrowlVoice indicator
impractical or impossible, and bring consistency to the indicators. And I'm
all for it, if it kills off junk like that.

GrowlVoice should display its messaging history in a window and the window
should pop up in the dock, with the badge displaying the number of new
messages (or threads, whatever it uses). It doesn't need an indicator *at
all*. Neither do most other apps. So Ayatana limitations are not a bug,
they're a feature, and we might choose to tighten them even more or
eradicate app indicators altogether. The question is not about app
indicators, it's about system indicators.

Voldyman showed off a cool proof of concept for libpeas-based plugs
yesterday, but it's not necessarily the best architecture if we choose to
embed indicators into apps (e.g. sound indicator in Audience). I'd like to
talk to designers first and see what are the use cases for this feature,
and if there's a sufficient number of indicators that should be embedded.
Otherwise we could use the libpeas-based architecture and simply provide
minimal D-bus interfaces to indicators like Sound.

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Luna +1's Name and Some Other Stuff

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Oh God, this is turning into yet another TTD thread!

Please, keep the TTD holywar out of here. You have your own cozy thread
just for that. Three of them, in fact.

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Luna +1's Name and Some Other Stuff

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Yay, bike shedding! Wait for me!

AFAIR the original plan was to use gods from the same pantheon for any
given series, Roman for the 0.x series specifically, hence the name of the
DE - Pantheon. So I looked for suitable Roman deities and I think I've
found a great one.

Continuing the trend, she's a Roman deity and has a celestial body in the
Solar system named after her. What's more, according to a myth that was
very widespread in late antiquity, she eventually moved to Egypt and became
Isis!

Behold Io! The Roman Isis that comes with a celestial body and a domain
name hack!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Io_%28mythology%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Io_%28moon%29

By the way, turns out http://elementary.io is already registered by Cassidy
and currently redirects to elementaryos.org, so I feel like this was the
plan all along.

As for development, we have ~8 months till release, so this is going to be
an iterative cycle. We're obviously not going for Wayland or Mir or
anything equally new and fancy because that technology is not yet baked and
will not be on par with the time-proven base by 14.04. It does look like
we'll have another huge migration on our hands after that, though.

So I'd probably start off by getting rid of all the technical debt we might
have accumulated in the race to release and getting some tools to manage
the increased complexity we're facing, e.g. unifying the way CMake works,
providing better code documentation, adding some automated testing, etc.

Next, since we're making an iterative cycle, I'd stop acting and start
reacting. Like, make a list of things that people have trouble with in Luna
and fix them. I have compiled an [incomplete] list of gripes people seem to
have with Luna. Maybe we should run some user testing and see what causes
issues?

We can't afford organized user testing, but we could reach out to the
community - say, provide people with testing methodology and ask people who
spread elementary OS to carry out the testing and send in the results. Like
run a user testing sprint to identify the issues the target audience has,
and fix them. Sounds like a plan!

Long live Io!

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Future of Wingpanel

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

2013/8/14 Akshay Shekher 

> I wanted to talk about the features to be added in wingpanel for L+1.
> the blueprints that i have in mind are.
> 1. Hide on 
> Maximize<https://blueprints.launchpad.net/wingpanel/+spec/hide-on-maximize>
> 2. Branch 
> Ayatana<https://blueprints.launchpad.net/wingpanel/+spec/branch-ayatana>
>
>
> *Hide on maximize* is easy. we just have to add a d-bus signal to gala
> which will be triggered when a window is maximized, wingpanel will connect
> to this signal when launched and whenever  an event is triggered wingpanel
> will hide.
> for hiding i was thinking of using clutter animations or something similar.
>

This is easy to code but hard to design. I'm not sure it's a good idea
because it could block the close/unmaximize buttons.

There also was talk of including some of the indicators into the titlebar
(e.g. sound volume for Audience, network and sound volume for Midori, etc),
but the doom of the titlebar is uncertain.


> *Branch Ayatana*: this was discussed earlier but no decision was made, we
> could use libpeas to make indicators as plugins. This is easy and good
> reliable indicator/plugins can be made but this creates problems for
> applications that want to show indicators, as for wingpanel to show an
> indicator a plug would have to be made and it would need to enabled from
> dconf.
>
> There are many ways to solve this problem.
> 1. use two libraries. one for system indicators and one for app indicators
> 2. use something similar to switchboard's plugins system.
> 3. don't allow application indicators. (which i think gnome follows)
>

As far as application indicators go, I like the "plug to support
AppIndicators" approach. Such things are already done for GNOME2, XFCE and
maybe LXDE panels. I'm inclined to think that we don't need application
indicators at all, because the dock already gives us everything an
indicator would. We just have to be able to keep the app icon in the dock
and we're good. My design for such things was implemented in Noise and
Birdie, although Noise used minimizing to keep itself in dock which was
ultimately reverted.

If I'm right on this one, we can just keep support for application
indicators in a system indicator (plug) or behind conditional compilation,
for compatibility with e.g. Dropbox on Ubuntu but avoiding a hard
dependency on Ayatana libraries at the same time.

If I'm wrong, i.e. it make sense to adopt application indicators in our
design, then we can just make another system indicator to house
GtkStatusIcon indicators and call the problem solved - we'd support both
existing indicator APIs in that case.

It's not that simple with system indicators though. Last time I checked the
problem with using Ayatana for *system* indicators was that it's a complex
and poorly documented process, to the point when Canonical themselves use
app indicator API for system indicators just to keep it simpler, and this
messes things up. Patching Ubuntu system indicators to look okay is also a
PITA because it's a moving target and the indicators are written in C which
is a bit too low-level for such things.

So we could probably go all "screw this, we're making our own system
indicator framework" and just go for completely custom system indicators
not dependent on the mess Ubuntu got in there. But there are several
problems with this.

First, some indicators (e.g. keyboard and network) are really complex, and
it took even Canonical over a year to port them to Ayatana API and get them
more or less right. Moreover, user switching and power indicators deal with
security, and I'm not sure we have any PolicyKit gurus to audit that.

Second, we'd be making up *yet another* applet API. Come on! Isn't there
enough of that out there already? Can we just reuse some API like XFCE
panel applets or something? Do we really have to reimplement all those
things yet again?

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Just look at all the progress we made!

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Also I want to congratulate everybody who every contributed, but it's
almost 7AM and I haven't slept today at all, so I can't generate anything
more sophisticated than THANK YOU GUYS YOU ROCK!!

Also, somebody please make a list of news coverage and reviews we get! I'd
really want to read it for one, even if in retrospect.

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[Elementary-dev-community] Just look at all the progress we made!

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Hey guys,

I though it'd be fun to look at all the progress we've made for the past
two years of development. So I uploaded a development snapshot of Luna as
we had it on the 19th of July 2011 to SourceForge. Here's the link:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/elementaryos/files/unstable/luna_ANCIENT_snapshot_19Jul2011.iso/download

Just look at all the things we've accomplished since then! It wouldn't be
possible without each of you guys. You're amazing!

Peace, love, and I'm departing to the woods! See you in two weeks!
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[Elementary-dev-community] Fixin' Files

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Hey guys,

So I didn't depart today as it was planned, so I'm up to a little hackathon.

Files has annoyingly crashy for months, and it still IS annoyingly crashy.
I can't order copying a large amount of data and be sure that it gets
copied before Files decides it's time to crash.

And we don't have Apport crash retracer working anymore (
http://pad.lv/1191366) and I'm pretty sure the segfault happens not where
the original bug is, but much later on.

To track down the original bug(s) causing that I'm going to compile it with
ElectricFence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_Fence), run it in GDB,
see where it segfaults and post backtraces.

What I need help with is:

First, I have to add "-lefence" to the C compiler parameters in CMake and I
have little idea how to do that. This will make Files segfault exactly
where the original corruption happens and ease debugging greatly. It's much
more fun than trying to track down the crashes in regular builds!

Second, I totally suck at OOP so I probably won't be able to fix the
crashes even if I track them down. Anyone up for joining me in fixing this?

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Mir Discussion with Jono

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Some perspective on Xmir setup seen in Ubuntu 13.10 and 14.04:
>From Canonical: http://blog.cooperteam.net/2013/07/xmir-performance.html
>From X/Wayland upstreams: http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/26254.html

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Mir Discussion with Jono

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

2013/7/13 Sergio Costas 

> And what about creating a WaylandMir? This is: as there is XMir that
> allows to run X apps over Mir, there should be possible to create a piece
> of code that translates Wayland calls to Mir calls. It should be even
> lighter than XMir because there are a lot of things in X that you must
> implement, even if you don't use them, but Wayland and Mir, conceptually
> are so similar that this should be much easier, and need much less
> resources...
>

In theory it's possible, but I can't see how it would be useful. Also, it's
probably easier to fork the relevant Wayland rendering code and make it
render to Mir than to translate calls dynamically.

Also, it seems there's significant confusion surrounding X compability
layers. What XWayland does is running tiny rootless per-app X servers and
rendering that to Wayland compositor which may or may not forward the
frames to a system compositor. What Xmir currently does is running
full-blown rooted X servers that render frames to Mir system compositor.
Which compability layer scenario are you suggesting?

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Basing elementary on latest and greatest pieces of software

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

>
> what do we need in order to get our own repo and automated build
> infrastructure? Is it a hardware issue?
>

A lot of things I'm afraid. Off the top of my head, the list is as follows:

   1. hardware
   2. pbuilder configuration (mostly done)
   3. some piece of software to accept dput uploads (should exist, but not
   found yet)
   4. some piece of software to create and maintain the repository (should
   exist, but not found yet)
   5. lots of integration scripts to write and secondary systems to set up
   (mailer to report failed builds, etc)
   6. some UI to be able to make sense of all that and manage the setup
   (probably doesn't exist)

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Mir Discussion with Jono

[Sergey "Shnatsel"; Davidoff]

Oh, I forgot: Mir and Mer are totally different things. Not a typo!

http://merproject.org/

FYI, it's with Wayland and Mer-based Sailfish OS is debuting this year's
end. *drools*


2013/7/10 Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff 

> 3. Canonical also has tools built around Mir that could enable us (and
>> others) to easily “flash” our builds onto mobile devices using an
>> Android/Mir base. This is probably the most unique/enticing part about
>> using Mir.
>
>
> Mer also provides this, and more. This is yet another thing that they
> "borrowed" from Mer/Sailfish and now are advertising as their own creation
> ("yet another" because the whole "nextgen display server on Android
> drivers" thing was developed by Sailfish developer for Wayland and Mer).
>
>
>> I think the only thing we know 100% (even if we do have some other
>> opinions) is that X is dying. We need to make an effort to remove any
>> x-specific code from our apps and our shell and to move away from any
>> libraries that we know won’t exist in a post-X world (like BAMF and WNCK).
>>
>
> The problem with this is that we cannot just move *away* and forget about
> the functionality these libraries provide, we have move *to* something
> else as well to provide that functionality. And it's not clear where we
> should move until we make the display server choice.
>
> The thing I'm 100% sure of is that we're sticking to X until at least
> Ubuntu 14.04. It doesn't matter for applications if it will be with or
> without XMir as system compositor, they're still interfacing with X.
>
> We have a conservative and iterative cycle ahead of us. Let's wait and see
> which of the display servers prevails, and make an *educated* decision
> for L+2. We know very little about what either of the display severs will
> be in a year from now, so any decision we make now is not a decision but
> prejudice.
>
> --
> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
> OS architect @ elementary
>



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