Re: [PSES] Laboratory Equipment - the forgotten child

2012-06-07 Thread ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen
Some background At http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/policies/european-standards/harmonised-standards/machinery/index_en.htm you will find the list of harmonized standards for the machine directive. Currently listed for electrical safety aspects are 60745 Electrical Tools

[PSES] German Technical Reputation

2012-06-07 Thread Ed Price
I was watching an interesting BBC documentary TV show the other night; it's focus was product quality and the publicly perceived image of quality goods. I had been aware that German consumer goods had at one time been held in poor repute in the British marketplace; recall the Irish song about

Re: [PSES] German Technical Reputation

2012-06-07 Thread John Woodgate
In message 009001cd448d$b4bb6570$1e323050$@cox.net, dated Thu, 7 Jun 2012, Ed Price edpr...@cox.net writes: The BBC explained that German industry (starting with AEG) began a corporate and industrial makeover around 1900, emphasizing a designed-in quality that stretched from the product

Re: [PSES] Laboratory Equipment - the forgotten child

2012-06-07 Thread Charlie Blackham
You need to look at the DIRECTIVE to see whether it applies to your product - Standards are just a way of demonstrating compliance with a directive. The rules/requirements come from the Directive and the National Implementations thereof. For many items that are covered by the machinery

Re: [PSES] German Technical Reputation

2012-06-07 Thread Anthony Thomson
I didn’t see the programme, but will make the effort to do so. However, German quality and reliability is a false perception. ‘German’ consumer goods are generally made in the same Chinese factories using the same components as the rest of the world’s brands and are generally neither more nor

Re: [PSES] German Technical Reputation

2012-06-07 Thread John Woodgate
In message 20120607102558.244...@gmx.com, dated Thu, 7 Jun 2012, Anthony Thomson ton...@europe.com writes: However, German quality and reliability is a false perception. ‘German’ consumer goods are generally made in the same Chinese factories using the same components as the rest of the

Re: [PSES] Laboratory Equipment - the forgotten child

2012-06-07 Thread Kunde, Brian
I agree with you totally. Something like this needs to be done and probably should have been done prior to the last release of the Machinery Directive. Looking at the newest edition of the EN 61010-1 standard, it would appear as if the team is trying to include the necessary Essential Health

Re: [PSES] Laboratory Equipment - the forgotten child

2012-06-07 Thread John Woodgate
In message 64D32EE8B9CBDD44963ACB076A5F6ABB0261EAA6@Mailbox-Tech.lecotech.local, dated Thu, 7 Jun 2012, Kunde, Brian brian_ku...@lecotc.com writes: The LVD is only 10 pages long and says things like, “adequate protection against the danger of physical injury”. Done. Then let the standards

Re: [PSES] Laboratory Equipment - the forgotten child

2012-06-07 Thread John Cotman
This is because the LVD is a New Approach Directive, but the Machinery Directive (like the Automotive Directive) is not. This reply has me completely baffled! -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: 07 June 2012 15:50 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

Re: [PSES] Laboratory Equipment - the forgotten child

2012-06-07 Thread John Woodgate
In message 2CD939E8E14B4A29A69FD97E1970CA80@LENVOR61iJOHN, dated Thu, 7 Jun 2012, John Cotman john.cot...@conformance.co.uk writes: This is because the LVD is a New Approach Directive, but the Machinery Directive (like the Automotive Directive) is not. This reply has me completely baffled!

Re: [PSES] Laboratory Equipment - the forgotten child

2012-06-07 Thread John Woodgate
In message E88BEB31005540B1B1EAF6BE0BBEDE94@LENVOR61iJOHN, dated Thu, 7 Jun 2012, John Cotman john.cot...@conformance.co.uk writes: Standards writers cannot ¡°dictate¡±, that¡¯s for the law, (the Directives), to do. Why are you using the strange encoding ks_c_5601-1987? -- OOO - Own

Re: [PSES] Laboratory Equipment - the forgotten child

2012-06-07 Thread John Cotman
A Google search like this one, for example? http://www.newapproach.org/Directives/DirectiveList.asp -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: 07 June 2012 16:49 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Laboratory Equipment - the forgotten

Re: [PSES] Laboratory Equipment - the forgotten child

2012-06-07 Thread John Woodgate
In message 6F813CE0E7344D93B321BA6FFF3C6A69@LENVOR61iJOHN, dated Thu, 7 Jun 2012, John Cotman john.cot...@conformance.co.uk writes: A Google search like this one, for example? No: a search shows *explanations* of the meaning of new and old approach directives. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only.

Re: [PSES] Laboratory Equipment - the forgotten child

2012-06-07 Thread ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen
It seems that the MD formally IS a New Approach Directive, and that is what I assumed in the first place. But John, you are not completely ignorant in these, so I expect there is something behind your statement. You made me worry (a bit): so now you owe us some explanation other than a

Re: [PSES] Laboratory Equipment - the forgotten child

2012-06-07 Thread John Woodgate
In message FCA549BE3ECF9D4CB8CB8576837EA489140754@ZEUS.cetest.local, dated Thu, 7 Jun 2012, ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen g.grem...@cetest.nl writes: It seems that the MD formally IS a New Approach Directive, and that is what I assumed in the first place. Yes, well, I think

[PSES] Cetecom contact

2012-06-07 Thread Amund Westin
Hi Searching for a contact at Cetecom (Germany) who is involved in Radio testing. Need to discuss a couple of things. Any Cetecom folks out there? . Best regards Amund - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety

Re: [PSES] Laboratory Equipment - the forgotten child

2012-06-07 Thread Dave Heald
Brian, I've faced similar situations when dealing with safety engineers in world areas that tend to take an overly rigid view of requirements. I think the underlying problem is subtleties getting lost in translation - so to be safe (that is their job!), a very literal translation of the

Re: [PSES] Thailand EMC, Safety Regulatory Compliance

2012-06-07 Thread Dave Heald
Hi, I've always done this through a third party agent, but the last time I checked EU reports should suffice. Also, yes, I believe you will need RF Exposure (SAR) reports in your submission package depending on what type of radio(s) are present in your handheld device. My experience on timeframe