My departure
As a result of representations from one of the administrators, which I consider totally unjustified, I am leaving the group. I regret having to break contact with those that responded favourably to my input. You are free to e-mail me if you wish. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Eat mink and be dreary! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: Conducted emisions - frequencies lower than 150kHz
Why not eat mink? What do they do with the meat from the minks raised for their fur? Although, I speak without first hand knowledge, I've heard the only part of the pig they don't use is the squeal! (in particular on farms) Daren A. Nerad EMC Engineer Consultant at Hamilton Sundstrand 815.226.6123 -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 2:34 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Conducted emisions - frequencies lower than 150kHz I read in !emc-pstc that bogdan matoga bogda...@pacbell.net wrote (in 3bf31b67.a7262...@pacbell.net) about 'Conducted emisions - frequencies lower than 150kHz', on Wed, 14 Nov 2001: John: Why would you want to eat mink? The tag is a false Spoonerism (rearrangement of initial letters for humorous (?) effect) of 'Eat, drink and be merry!' Time for a new tag, I think. Watch the space below.(;-) -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Eat mink and be dreary! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: Tetanization
The disease tetanus used to be called lock jaw, if I remember correctly. So, if that implies a real symptom of the disease (I have no idea), then the word tetanus may have a common meaning with the can't let go symptom discussed here. // Jack Cook, Xerox EMC -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 12:39 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Tetanization I read in !emc-pstc that Price, Ed ed.pr...@cubic.com wrote (in b78135310217d511907c0090273f5190d0b...@curly.ds.cubic.com) about 'Tetanization', on Wed, 14 Nov 2001: I was discussing tetanus with my wife. She checked some of her old textbooks and found the attached explanation of tetanus and a very good graphic. In the field of electric shock, tetanus is the technical term describing what we commonly refer to as can't let go. Tetanus occurs in the range of 7 to 50 mA. It seems to me that the actual word 'tetanus' is not used for this in Britain, maybe because of the risk of confusion with the infection. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Eat mink and be dreary! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: Tetanization
Hi John: It seems to me that the actual word 'tetanus' is not used for this in Britain, maybe because of the risk of confusion with the infection. Reilly uses the word tetanus. Guyton uses the word tetanization. Tetanization would seem a better choice of word to describe the electrically-induced phenomenon as it avoids confusion with the disease. Tetanization (Guyton) is the general term describing uncontrollable muscle contraction caused by multiple stimuli in rapid succession. Can't-let-go, as we use it in product safety, describes a specific tetanization situation where a body part is caused to continuously grip an object due to the tetanization. The danger of can't-let-go tetanization is that the object being gripped is one of the electrical conductors providing the current for tetanization. Best regards, Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: Components connected to PE
Hi Chris, In answer to your question, I would think not. Whatever you use you must consider the single fault condition of the component bridging the input and ground, e.g. short. Also consider other aspects like the material flammability rating. One nice thing about approved caps is that most if not all, the safety issues are already addressed. If it is a low volume product you might well consider just using these approved components, but for high volume, where the great big dragon called Cost* is breathing fire, you may want to look at the alternatives. Is component size an issue? Enci * Also known as: The Boss, Accountant, Bank Manager, Customer. :) At 14:49 15/11/01 -, Chris wrote: Hi Group, I have one of those scenarios where EMC meets product safety. For the purpose of RFI, I have a requirement to connect RF bypass capacitors from the input lines of a Low voltage DC (30V max, SELV) piece of equipment to PE. As I recall when I worked in ac voltage converters, we used to connect Y-rated capacitors between phase and PE. Is it still a requirement that I need a Y-rated capacitor for this LV product or can I get away with a much smaller capacitor with a varistor in parallel? All comments welcome. I trust the wording is clear but please let me know if a sketch in word is required. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: Components connected to PE
I read in !emc-pstc that Chris Chileshe chris.chile...@ultronics.co.uk wrote (in 01c16de4.bf0918a0.chris.chile...@ultronics.co.uk) about 'Components connected to PE', on Thu, 15 Nov 2001: I have one of those scenarios where EMC meets product safety. For the purpose of RFI, I have a requirement to connect RF bypass capacitors from the input lines of a Low voltage DC (30V max, SELV) piece of equipment to PE. As I recall when I worked in ac voltage converters, we used to connect Y-rated capacitors between phase and PE. Is it still a requirement that I need a Y-rated capacitor for this LV product or can I get away with a much smaller capacitor with a varistor in parallel? The answer depend on what over-voltage transients you expect on your 30 V supply. SELV circuits are usually assumed to have very low transients unless the contrary is known to be the case (e.g. if there are lots of inductive loads present). If the transients are limited in amplitude to 300 V, for example, you can use ordinary capacitors rated at over 300 V because they will survive the transients. It would not be a good idea to use varistors to limit the transients, though, because they fail to short-circuit, and an SELV circuit must not be earthed. Of course, there may be no reason why you can't change your SELV circuit to PELV (= SELV but with one pole earthed). -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Eat mink and be dreary! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: Conducted emisions - frequencies lower than 150kHz
I read in !emc-pstc that douglas_beckw...@mitel.com wrote (in 85256b05.00503287...@kanmta01.software.mitel.com) about 'Conducted emisions - frequencies lower than 150kHz', on Thu, 15 Nov 2001: From: Douglas Beckwith@MITEL on 11/15/2001 09:38 AM I can't take these roonerspisims any more! Doug Noted. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk After swimming across the Hellespont, I felt like a Hero. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: AW: Define Continuous DC Voltage
Hi John: Also consider that the rectifier will very probably fail due to excessive reverse voltage under the fault condition, thus allowing fault current to flow through the transformer winding. Will the rectifier fail open or short? This SELV grounding scheme certainly doesn't fit the conventional safety model for predictability and reliability. Best regards, Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: CE-mark compliance
I read in !emc-pstc that i...@uk.tuv.com wrote (in OF47447D6C.F0A6BF4C- on80256b05.00425...@jpn.tuv.com) about 'CE-mark compliance', on Thu, 15 Nov 2001: Test houses generally do not accept a Declaration of Conformity for any product unless further proof is available in the form of acceptable test results (from a 3rd party laboratory or approved in-house laboratory). There is normally no reason for a test house to be asked to 'accept' a DOC, unless the manufacturer commissions it to use the DOC to support a claim of conformity to some other requirements, such as Australian. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Eat mink and be dreary! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Components connected to PE
Hi Group, I have one of those scenarios where EMC meets product safety. For the purpose of RFI, I have a requirement to connect RF bypass capacitors from the input lines of a Low voltage DC (30V max, SELV) piece of equipment to PE. As I recall when I worked in ac voltage converters, we used to connect Y-rated capacitors between phase and PE. Is it still a requirement that I need a Y-rated capacitor for this LV product or can I get away with a much smaller capacitor with a varistor in parallel? All comments welcome. I trust the wording is clear but please let me know if a sketch in word is required. Thanx in advance. Regards - Chris _ This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp or alternatively call Star Internet for details on the Virus Scanning Service. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: Conducted emisions - frequencies lower than 150kHz
From: Douglas Beckwith@MITEL on 11/15/2001 09:38 AM I can't take these roonerspisims any more! Doug John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk on 11/15/2001 03:33:44 AM Please respond to John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc:(bcc: Douglas Beckwith/Kan/Mitel) Subject: Re: Conducted emisions - frequencies lower than 150kHz I read in !emc-pstc that bogdan matoga bogda...@pacbell.net wrote (in 3bf31b67.a7262...@pacbell.net) about 'Conducted emisions - frequencies lower than 150kHz', on Wed, 14 Nov 2001: John: Why would you want to eat mink? The tag is a false Spoonerism (rearrangement of initial letters for humorous (?) effect) of 'Eat, drink and be merry!' Time for a new tag, I think. Watch the space below.(;-) -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Eat mink and be dreary! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re:RE: Pre-amps
Keep in mind that the location of the pre-amp can make a big difference too. If you are trying to make up for cable loss, the best place to put the pre-amp is near the antenna, before the loss occurs. Some labs mount one of those small amp-modules right on the antenna but you have to run DC power to it. We mount our amp where the antenna coax meets the floor. We gain several db in the noise floor over mounting it near the receiver. Brian Reply Separator Subject:RE: Pre-amps Author: marti...@appliedbiosystems.com List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: 11/14/01 8:06 PM John and all, I am looking for a pre-amp to connect to our receiver/antenna for performing radiated emissions testing from 30-1000MHz. It has been recommended that the gain be approximately 20-22dB with low noise. I am guessing that most people on this forum that have EMC labs use a similar type pre-amp for their radiated emissions set up. Please excuse me for not providing this information in my initial question. As always, your responses are greatly appreciated. Joe Martin John Shinn john.shinn@saTo: marti...@appliedbiosystems.com, emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org nmina.comcc: Subject: RE: Pre-amps 11/14/01 01:03 PM Please respondto john.shinn What is the frequency range needed. Is this Audio (10 Hz to 40 kHz)? RF (0.1 MHz to 1000 MHz)? Above 1 GHz? What transducer is feeding the input? Microphone, antenna, etc.? Output Z requirements? Do you need a specific gain, such as between 20 to 22 dB? or can you live with something greater such as 25 dB? Does it need to be adjustable? That information would be helpful. Regards, John Shinn, P.E. Manager, Lab Operations Sanmina -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of marti...@appliedbiosystems.com Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 10:15 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Pre-amps I am having some difficulties locating manufacturers that provide preamps with a 20-22dB gain. What manufacturer/model do you recommend? Why? Your assistance is appreciated. Regards Joe Martin Applied Biosystems --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: Tetanization
I believe that both conditions (the electric stimulation and the disease) exhibit the same final result: 'fusion' (rigidity) of the muscle/s see also http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/tettoxpi.htm (click on tetanus for the explanation of the disease). Regards, Naftali Shani, Catena Networks (www.catena.com) 307 Legget Drive, Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2K 3C8 613.599.6430/866.2CATENA (X.8277); C 295.7042; F 599.0445 E-mail: nsh...@catena.com -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 3:39 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject:Re: Tetanization I read in !emc-pstc that Price, Ed ed.pr...@cubic.com wrote (in b78135310217d511907c0090273f5190d0b...@curly.ds.cubic.com) about 'Tetanization', on Wed, 14 Nov 2001: I was discussing tetanus with my wife. She checked some of her old textbooks and found the attached explanation of tetanus and a very good graphic. In the field of electric shock, tetanus is the technical term describing what we commonly refer to as can't let go. Tetanus occurs in the range of 7 to 50 mA. It seems to me that the actual word 'tetanus' is not used for this in Britain, maybe because of the risk of confusion with the infection. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Eat mink and be dreary! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: Tetanization
This observation has probably been made many times, but isn't it ironic that the peak muscle clamping strength straddles European and US mains frequencies? Timothy J. Christman Test Engineer Tel 651.582.3141 Fax 651.582.7599 timothy.christ...@guidant.com Guidant Corporation 4100 Hamline Ave. N. St. Paul, MN 55112 USA www.guidant.com Opinions are mine, not my employer, I am not a lawyer, nor am I Diane Sawyer, etc. etc. -Original Message- From: Price, Ed [mailto:ed.pr...@cubic.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 9:33 PM To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org' Subject: Tetanization NOTE: Small, safe Adobe attachment included. -Original Message- From: NUTE,RICHARD (HP-SanDiego,ex1) [mailto:richard_n...@am.exch.hp.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 4:19 PM To: Price, Ed Subject: Tetanization I was discussing tetanus with my wife. She checked some of her old textbooks and found the attached explanation of tetanus and a very good graphic. In the field of electric shock, tetanus is the technical term describing what we commonly refer to as can't let go. Tetanus occurs in the range of 7 to 50 mA. Best regards, Rich Richard Nute Hewlett-Packard Company San Diego Note: Since I am unable to post attachments from my subscribed address, I've asked Ed Price to post this on my behalf. Please send replies to me at ri...@ieee.org. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: Pre-amps
On the amps: For emissions there are the following electrical criteria: - Noise figure expect about 4 dB for a broadband amp 30 MHz - 2 GHz. The noise figure is often larger at the lower frequencies if the amplifier goes up to many GHz. - Input SWR. This is important. Most broadband amps (especially if they go up to many GHz) have a bad input match at low frequencies. As the log-per antennas have a bad mismatch too, you will have multiple reflections on the cable between the antenna and the pre-amp. This reflections will influence your measurement and cannot be corrected for by the antenna factor. They may be as large as a few dB below 100 MHz. For that reason, you may be forced to add a 3 dB attenuatore at the antenna. This increases your noise figure by 3 dB. - Gain. Of course, you need only as much gain as is needed to overcome the cable loss (cable to the spectrum analyzer) and the noise figure of the spectrum analyzer. More gain will not help you. David Pommerenke -Original Message- From: Ravinder Ajmani [mailto:ajm...@us.ibm.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 1:27 PM To: marti...@appliedbiosystems.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Pre-amps Joe, HP (Agilent) make good Pre-amps for different frequency ranges. If you are looking for an economical solution then you may try Com Power Corp. at (949) 587-9800. Regards, Ravinder PCB Development and Design Department IBM Corporation Email: ajm...@us.ibm.com *** Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. Mark Twain MartinJP@appliedbiosyst ems.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent by: cc: owner-emc-pstc@majordom Subject: Pre-amps o.ieee.org 11/14/2001 10:14 AM Please respond to MartinJP I am having some difficulties locating manufacturers that provide preamps with a 20-22dB gain. What manufacturer/model do you recommend? Why? Your assistance is appreciated. Regards Joe Martin Applied Biosystems --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: CE-mark compliance
Look in the archives of this discussion forum and you will see instances of occassions where no testing has been conducted. Test houses generally do not accept a Declaration of Conformity for any product unless further proof is available in the form of acceptable test results (from a 3rd party laboratory or approved in-house laboratory). This is not because they want more testing and more money but because it is well known that the CE marking process is abused by a large number of companies to different degrees. It is not uncommon for products to have a CE label attached but no documentation at all and these products are frequently found to be unsafe or to not comply with the EMC Directive. Some companies do the minimum possible i.e. make a quick assessment (not necessarily by a knowledgable person) and write a Declaration of conformity, other companies will do more in house testing, for example, hi-pot, leakage current and earth bond. Some companies employ safety engineers to perform testing and others use external test houses. For EMC it is more likely that nothing has been done as a large number of companies know that they will only get caught if their equipment is causing serious interference. There is a sliding scale of testing that companies do, at one end nothing is done, costs are low and risks are high, at the other end full third party testing is conducted therefore costs are high but risks are low. It is up to buyers to decide where they want their end product to lie on that scale and to buy from companies that are at a similar position or better. They should request documentation to ensure that the equipment is suitably assessed to that level of risk. Some years ago before most of us knew what EMC meant, I came across a company that did not employ a safety engineer and did not use a test lab at all since it was cheaper to employ a lawyer with the knowledge to get them off any charges if their equipment was found to be unsafe! My advice, decide on your level of risk and choose your suppliers carefully. Glenn Moffat TUV International UK Tel: +44 121 634 8000 Fax: +44 121 634 8080 Hi all, Do all manufactures fulfill the EU-directives with testing in their own facilities or by an independent test lab? I guess the answer must be No. From my time working in a test lab, my experience is that big companies like Alcatel, Siemens and so on, do the required testing according to relevant requirements. I also got the feeling that small companies (I do not generalize) where a bit laid-back and often put the CE-mark into the products without any tests or with a very limited test process. Should a system builder trust a Declaration of Conformity from a big manufacturer, without asking for test reports in order to verify compliance with relevant directives ? Would you sleep well at night, if you only trusted the CE-mark 100% and build a large broadband telecom system only based on the CE-mark without any further documentation? What is your opinion? Best regards Amund Westin, Oslo/Norway --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: RCIC Website?
In message 001501c16d4d$38f87180$5b4ffea9@pryor Pryor McGinnis writes: What happened to the RCIC Website? Pryor Pryor, Perhaps you missed Rich Nute's announcement of 6 Aug - see below? Bill -- Bill Lyons - b...@lyons.demon.co.uk / w.ly...@ieee.org -Original Message- List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 15:29:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Rich Nute ri...@sdd.hp.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org (Product Safety Technical Committee) Subject: emc-pstc archive and RCIC The RCIC archive for emc-pstc messages will be shut down, permanently, some time this week. The archive itself is preserved. We are working on a new web site for the archive. We expect to announce the new web site along with a number of other web-based features some time this Fall. We apologize that there is a gap in access to the emc-pstc archives. However, in the long run, we believe you will like the new site. At this new site, you will be able to access all emc-pstc messages, and you will be able to post messages from that site. You will be able to customize your subscription for the topics and authors of interest to you. You will be able to read the messages at the new site, or have them sent to your regular e-mail address. And, we have a number of other features that will enhance the value of this forum. If you are attending the IEEE EMC Symposium in Montreal, you will have an opportunity to preview our new web site. Check the bookmarks on the PCs in the Internet Cafe or look for Jim Bacher. If you have any questions, please contact me or Jim Bacher off-line. Best regards, Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: Tetanization
I read in !emc-pstc that Price, Ed ed.pr...@cubic.com wrote (in b78135310217d511907c0090273f5190d0b...@curly.ds.cubic.com) about 'Tetanization', on Wed, 14 Nov 2001: I was discussing tetanus with my wife. She checked some of her old textbooks and found the attached explanation of tetanus and a very good graphic. In the field of electric shock, tetanus is the technical term describing what we commonly refer to as can't let go. Tetanus occurs in the range of 7 to 50 mA. It seems to me that the actual word 'tetanus' is not used for this in Britain, maybe because of the risk of confusion with the infection. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Eat mink and be dreary! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: Conducted emisions - frequencies lower than 150kHz
I read in !emc-pstc that bogdan matoga bogda...@pacbell.net wrote (in 3bf31b67.a7262...@pacbell.net) about 'Conducted emisions - frequencies lower than 150kHz', on Wed, 14 Nov 2001: John: Why would you want to eat mink? The tag is a false Spoonerism (rearrangement of initial letters for humorous (?) effect) of 'Eat, drink and be merry!' Time for a new tag, I think. Watch the space below.(;-) -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Eat mink and be dreary! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: AW: Define Continuous DC Voltage
I read in !emc-pstc that Rich Nute ri...@sdd.hp.com wrote (in 20042313.paa09...@epgc196.sdd.hp.com) about 'AW: Define Continuous DC Voltage', on Wed, 14 Nov 2001: When the fault occurs between the mains and the ungrounded SELV pole, 240 volts will appear across the aggregate 1.25-ohm resistance. There is no single component with an impedance of 1.25 ohms. Clearly, the aggregate current is sufficiently low to easily operate the 3-amp mains fuse, E/R or 192 amps. However, not a wire or PWB trace could carry 192 amps. So, this scenario is impossible. Absolutely not. The 3 A fuse will open in less than 10 ms at 192 A (published time/current curves don't go as high as 64 times rated current, even for HBC fuses) and any reasonable conductor will carry 192 A for that period (not necessarily undamaged). Current-carrying capacity is a peculiar concept. The standard or conventional values for wires and cables are very low, because these currents can flow for years. Consider the currents that flow through the very thin lead wires in semiconductors, and the inrush currents that flow through PCB traces to power supply filter capacitors. Also consider that the rectifier will very probably fail due to excessive reverse voltage under the fault condition, thus allowing fault current to flow through the transformer winding. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Eat mink and be dreary! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Tetanization
NOTE: Small, safe Adobe attachment included. -Original Message- From: NUTE,RICHARD (HP-SanDiego,ex1) [mailto:richard_n...@am.exch.hp.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 4:19 PM To: Price, Ed Subject: Tetanization I was discussing tetanus with my wife. She checked some of her old textbooks and found the attached explanation of tetanus and a very good graphic. In the field of electric shock, tetanus is the technical term describing what we commonly refer to as can't let go. Tetanus occurs in the range of 7 to 50 mA. Best regards, Rich Richard Nute Hewlett-Packard Company San Diego Note: Since I am unable to post attachments from my subscribed address, I've asked Ed Price to post this on my behalf. Please send replies to me at ri...@ieee.org. tetanus_1.pdf Description: Binary data
Re: Conducted emisions - frequencies lower than 150kHz
When I am not mistaken, then VDE0871 required testing starting at 9 kHz. When EMI requirements hit our shores, two tests were run (by some smart manufacturers) one per VDE0871 with a European Line Filter and another with a cheaper FCC Filter. In one particular equipment, there was a peak at 120 kHz, which required that the VDE filter be used (for export), and the local configuration started testing at 150 kHz, all legit. The problem came up when several units were installed in the US, and the remote control of the lights went crazy (the control used 120 kHz as carrier frequency), until the quantity of units was reduced to the original one unit. Well, the fix was to install VDE filters, and everything was quiet. This exercise was quite expensive and helped me to convince management to test and verify that there were no - or not too much - emissions below 150 kHz, and a decent filter was used in the future when necessary for domestic and export products. Bogdan. John: Why would you want to eat mink? John Woodgate wrote: I read in !emc-pstc that gunter_j_ma...@embraco.com.br wrote (in offe76605a.acd9696b-on83256b04.00537...@embraco.com.br) about 'Conducted emisions - frequencies lower than 150kHz', on Wed, 14 Nov 2001: List Nowadays, we run conducted EMI tests according to EN55014-1 to household appliances. The frequency range is 150kHz up to 30MHz. Is there any standard or project to impose limits to lower frequencies ? There is a general *trend* to extend control of emissions down to 9 kHz and up from 2/2.4 kHz to 9 kHz. But this involves a revision or amendment of the standard, so an adequate transition period will be given. To get an idea of what *might* be added, see CISPR15/EN55015. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Eat mink and be dreary! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: Argentina's Frequency Allocation Table
http://oasforum.oas.org/citelituv3.nsf/5251d4eedd16b13285256919007e38dd/df68 655663c1382e85256924004ed6e7/$FILE/allocationE11.rtf John, The above link is through the CITEL Website and will take you directly to the Argentine Allocation table. It starts at 10GHz but if you just scroll down the page you'll get to the range you're looking for. The link below is to the Home Page for CITEL. http://www.citel.oas.org/citel_i.asp I hope that these are helpful. Best Regards, Barbara ___ Barbara L. Judge Vice President Compliance Certification Services Designated TCB and CAB 561F Monterey Road Morgan Hill, CA 95037 408-463-0885 ext.104 Fax: 408-463-0888 e-mail: bju...@ccsemc.com http://www.ccsemc.com -Original Message- From: Geis, John [mailto:john.g...@attws.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 3:55 PM To: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' Subject: Argentina's Frequency Allocation Table Does anyone know where I can find a copy of Argentina's Frequency Allocation Table and their guide for the types of devices allowed to operate at 1800-2000MHz. I am unable to find any documention on their regulatory website. Any help would greatly be appreciated. Sincerely, John Geis --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: Pre-amps
Most use the HP (Agelent) 8447D pre-amp, or one of its family members. John -Original Message- From: marti...@appliedbiosystems.com [mailto:marti...@appliedbiosystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 4:25 PM To: john.sh...@sanmina.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Pre-amps John and all, I am looking for a pre-amp to connect to our receiver/antenna for performing radiated emissions testing from 30-1000MHz. It has been recommended that the gain be approximately 20-22dB with low noise. I am guessing that most people on this forum that have EMC labs use a similar type pre-amp for their radiated emissions set up. Please excuse me for not providing this information in my initial question. As always, your responses are greatly appreciated. Joe Martin John Shinn john.shinn@saTo: marti...@appliedbiosystems.com, emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org nmina.comcc: Subject: RE: Pre-amps 11/14/01 01:03 PM Please respond to john.shinn What is the frequency range needed. Is this Audio (10 Hz to 40 kHz)? RF (0.1 MHz to 1000 MHz)? Above 1 GHz? What transducer is feeding the input? Microphone, antenna, etc.? Output Z requirements? Do you need a specific gain, such as between 20 to 22 dB? or can you live with something greater such as 25 dB? Does it need to be adjustable? That information would be helpful. Regards, John Shinn, P.E. Manager, Lab Operations Sanmina -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of marti...@appliedbiosystems.com Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 10:15 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Pre-amps I am having some difficulties locating manufacturers that provide preamps with a 20-22dB gain. What manufacturer/model do you recommend? Why? Your assistance is appreciated. Regards Joe Martin Applied Biosystems --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: Grounding Continuity Testers for UL 60950
Arc Welder works better. John -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of John Woodgate Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 10:25 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Grounding Continuity Testers for UL 60950 I read in !emc-pstc that Loop, Robert rl...@hnt.wylelabs.com wrote (in 81a0ea0cd2a23f439f43a64d24db7d8d08f...@hnt.wylelabs.com) about 'Grounding Continuity Testers for UL 60950', on Wed, 14 Nov 2001: Where in the world can we get a tester that would go up to 200 amps with a 12 V output? Vehicle starter/boost charger? -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Eat mink and be dreary! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
