Re: Equipment with External Antenna Connections
Hi All, The vatican recently had a runin with the Italian government over radiated emissions. Jim Freeman John Woodgate wrote: 2D1037012914D4118DB8204C4F4F50202D5C18@ITLLTD01, Peter Merguerian pmerguer...@itl.co.il inimitably wrote: Are there any European code or installation requirements similar to the North American requirements? What are they? There is nothing Europe-wide, but there are national requirements in Germany and some other countries. There are only recommendations from industry bodies and a BS Code of Practice in UK, and they are not widely observed, particularly about earthing the antenna structure. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk This message and its contents are not confidential, privileged or protected by law. Access is only authorised by the intended recipient - this means YOU! The contents may be disclosed to, or used by, anyone and stored or copied in any medium. If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender yesterday at the latest. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
RE: TV nostalgia
I have noticed several responses related to the smell of the old equipment. I had been thinking the very same thing. You could trouble-shoot by the type of smell a failed component produced (cap vs. resistor, vs choke, etc.) Ever notice how connected one's memory and smells are connected? Think about the number of things, both good and bad, that particular smells recall. Fresh cut grass, a certain type of perfume, a new or old car, fresh paint, burning leaves, foods, etc. rbusche%es@interlock.lexmark.com on 08/03/2001 05:02:21 PM Please respond to rbusche%es@interlock.lexmark.com To: emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: RE: TV nostalgia How about the reported X-Ray emissions from the old high voltage regulators and the 25-35KV anode voltages? Those old color sets were beasts. It is interesting to note that the process of keeping the CRT filaments warm, (instant on) was the cause of numerous TV fires. But you know, there's something pleasant (or nostalgic) about the smell of a tube type radio or TV. Perhaps it's just my age. Rick Busche -Original Message- From: Ehler, Kyle [mailto:keh...@lsil.com] Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 2:38 PM To: 'Ralph Cameron'; 'EMC and Safety list' Subject: RE: TV nostalgia Which reminds me of other oddball video contraptions. A few years back I had to dispose of a Heathkit GR-2000 25 TV w/onscreen digital clock option. Alas, it worked great, but the digital matrix tuner did not like CATV (ch. 2-13 only). Its entire chassis was copper plated steel. All pcb's were 94V0 and, typical of Heath products, documented more than thoroughly. Very well made! kyle -Original Message- From: Ralph Cameron [mailto:ral...@igs.net] Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 2:41 PM To: Ehler, Kyle; 'Rich Nute'; 'EMC and Safety list' Subject: Re: TV nostalgia And lest we forget the Hallicrafters electrostatic deflection systems. You could sure get a poke off those. Ralph Cameron - Original Message - From: Ehler, Kyle mailto:keh...@lsil.com To: 'Rich Nute' mailto:ri...@sdd.hp.com ; 'EMC and Safety list' mailto:emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 9:23 AM Subject: RE: TV nostalgia My experience was with the Packard-Bell transistorized models. I think the aversion I have was prejudiced by the fellow who mentored me. I had little reason to doubt, but then the sets I worked on, had a callback history that may have been created by my mentor. -kyle -Original Message- From: Rich Nute [ mailto:ri...@sdd.hp.com mailto:ri...@sdd.hp.com ] Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 5:36 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org mailto:emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: TV nostalgia Okay... more nostalgia and a bit on safety back in those days... so that we don't stray too far from the subject matter of this forum. My first TV was a Motorola 7-inch round in a Bakelite cabinet. The speaker was the same size as the CRT. My second was the famous RCA 10-inch round chassis with 32 tubes. I could pull out 15 tubes and still have a usable picture. Kyle mentions Packard Bell, which I considered a straight-forward, good product. It used the Standard Coil turret tuner. The one that won my respect was Muntz TV. It was CHEAP! When you looked inside the chassis, there was nothing there compared to the other TVs. They really knew how to take the cost out of the TV! Amazingly enough, its picture was among the best, and its reliability was indeed the best -- no parts to go bad! The company was owned by Mad Man Muntz, the classic Los Angeles used car dealer. In the mid-fifties, GE came out with a transformerless 17-inch TV. One side of the power line was tied to the chassis (2-wire plug back in those days). The only protection was the plastic knob on the shafts of the various controls. When servicing this TV, you quickly learned never to touch the chassis! The power supply was a simple full-wave rectified power line. The tube heaters were connected in a series-parallel arrangement. These sets were the initiation of UL's investigation into antenna coupling capacitors. These capacitors provided the isolation between the TV antenna terminals and the mains voltage. TV sets of those days consumed between 400 and 600 watts. When they were turned on, the cold filaments were a very low impedance, so the turn-on current was very high. The off-on switch was often mounted on the back of the volume control. Eventually, the contact resistance of the switch would grow to the point where the I**2*R power would melt the solder and the power wires would come loose. It was common to have a customer report that his TV was dead, and it was due to the lack of a good connection to the switch. At one company, we had metal bat-handle toggles blow out of the switch due to the cold filament load. Out of this experience, UL developed the requirements for the TV-rated switch, which had
RE: TV nostalgia
I had the GR-2050, which was the 21 inch version of that set. Worked great until the picture tube faded off into the sunset (actually, sunsets didn't look so good as it was the red gun that was dying). Real radios (and TVs) glow in the dark! Ghery Pettit, N6TPT -Original Message- From: Ehler, Kyle [mailto:keh...@lsil.com] Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 1:38 PM To: 'Ralph Cameron'; 'EMC and Safety list' Subject: RE: TV nostalgia Which reminds me of other oddball video contraptions. A few years back I had to dispose of a Heathkit GR-2000 25 TV w/onscreen digital clock option. Alas, it worked great, but the digital matrix tuner did not like CATV (ch. 2-13 only). Its entire chassis was copper plated steel. All pcb's were 94V0 and, typical of Heath products, documented more than thoroughly. Very well made! kyle -Original Message- From: Ralph Cameron [mailto:ral...@igs.net] Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 2:41 PM To: Ehler, Kyle; 'Rich Nute'; 'EMC and Safety list' Subject: Re: TV nostalgia And lest we forget the Hallicrafters electrostatic deflection systems. You could sure get a poke off those. Ralph Cameron - Original Message - From: Ehler, Kyle mailto:keh...@lsil.com To: 'Rich Nute' mailto:ri...@sdd.hp.com ; 'EMC and Safety list' mailto:emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 9:23 AM Subject: RE: TV nostalgia My experience was with the Packard-Bell transistorized models. I think the aversion I have was prejudiced by the fellow who mentored me. I had little reason to doubt, but then the sets I worked on, had a callback history that may have been created by my mentor. -kyle -Original Message- From: Rich Nute [ mailto:ri...@sdd.hp.com mailto:ri...@sdd.hp.com ] Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 5:36 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org mailto:emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: TV nostalgia Okay... more nostalgia and a bit on safety back in those days... so that we don't stray too far from the subject matter of this forum. My first TV was a Motorola 7-inch round in a Bakelite cabinet. The speaker was the same size as the CRT. My second was the famous RCA 10-inch round chassis with 32 tubes. I could pull out 15 tubes and still have a usable picture. Kyle mentions Packard Bell, which I considered a straight-forward, good product. It used the Standard Coil turret tuner. The one that won my respect was Muntz TV. It was CHEAP! When you looked inside the chassis, there was nothing there compared to the other TVs. They really knew how to take the cost out of the TV! Amazingly enough, its picture was among the best, and its reliability was indeed the best -- no parts to go bad! The company was owned by Mad Man Muntz, the classic Los Angeles used car dealer. In the mid-fifties, GE came out with a transformerless 17-inch TV. One side of the power line was tied to the chassis (2-wire plug back in those days). The only protection was the plastic knob on the shafts of the various controls. When servicing this TV, you quickly learned never to touch the chassis! The power supply was a simple full-wave rectified power line. The tube heaters were connected in a series-parallel arrangement. These sets were the initiation of UL's investigation into antenna coupling capacitors. These capacitors provided the isolation between the TV antenna terminals and the mains voltage. TV sets of those days consumed between 400 and 600 watts. When they were turned on, the cold filaments were a very low impedance, so the turn-on current was very high. The off-on switch was often mounted on the back of the volume control. Eventually, the contact resistance of the switch would grow to the point where the I**2*R power would melt the solder and the power wires would come loose. It was common to have a customer report that his TV was dead, and it was due to the lack of a good connection to the switch. At one company, we had metal bat-handle toggles blow out of the switch due to the cold filament load. Out of this experience, UL developed the requirements for the TV-rated switch, which had specially-designed contacts that would not overheat when used in a TV or similar application. Best regards, Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All
RE: TV nostalgia
How about the reported X-Ray emissions from the old high voltage regulators and the 25-35KV anode voltages? Those old color sets were beasts. It is interesting to note that the process of keeping the CRT filaments warm, (instant on) was the cause of numerous TV fires. But you know, there's something pleasant (or nostalgic) about the smell of a tube type radio or TV. Perhaps it's just my age. Rick Busche -Original Message- From: Ehler, Kyle [mailto:keh...@lsil.com] Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 2:38 PM To: 'Ralph Cameron'; 'EMC and Safety list' Subject: RE: TV nostalgia Which reminds me of other oddball video contraptions. A few years back I had to dispose of a Heathkit GR-2000 25 TV w/onscreen digital clock option. Alas, it worked great, but the digital matrix tuner did not like CATV (ch. 2-13 only). Its entire chassis was copper plated steel. All pcb's were 94V0 and, typical of Heath products, documented more than thoroughly. Very well made! kyle -Original Message- From: Ralph Cameron [mailto:ral...@igs.net] Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 2:41 PM To: Ehler, Kyle; 'Rich Nute'; 'EMC and Safety list' Subject: Re: TV nostalgia And lest we forget the Hallicrafters electrostatic deflection systems. You could sure get a poke off those. Ralph Cameron - Original Message - From: Ehler, Kyle mailto:keh...@lsil.com To: 'Rich Nute' mailto:ri...@sdd.hp.com ; 'EMC and Safety list' mailto:emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 9:23 AM Subject: RE: TV nostalgia My experience was with the Packard-Bell transistorized models. I think the aversion I have was prejudiced by the fellow who mentored me. I had little reason to doubt, but then the sets I worked on, had a callback history that may have been created by my mentor. -kyle -Original Message- From: Rich Nute [ mailto:ri...@sdd.hp.com mailto:ri...@sdd.hp.com ] Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 5:36 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org mailto:emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: TV nostalgia Okay... more nostalgia and a bit on safety back in those days... so that we don't stray too far from the subject matter of this forum. My first TV was a Motorola 7-inch round in a Bakelite cabinet. The speaker was the same size as the CRT. My second was the famous RCA 10-inch round chassis with 32 tubes. I could pull out 15 tubes and still have a usable picture. Kyle mentions Packard Bell, which I considered a straight-forward, good product. It used the Standard Coil turret tuner. The one that won my respect was Muntz TV. It was CHEAP! When you looked inside the chassis, there was nothing there compared to the other TVs. They really knew how to take the cost out of the TV! Amazingly enough, its picture was among the best, and its reliability was indeed the best -- no parts to go bad! The company was owned by Mad Man Muntz, the classic Los Angeles used car dealer. In the mid-fifties, GE came out with a transformerless 17-inch TV. One side of the power line was tied to the chassis (2-wire plug back in those days). The only protection was the plastic knob on the shafts of the various controls. When servicing this TV, you quickly learned never to touch the chassis! The power supply was a simple full-wave rectified power line. The tube heaters were connected in a series-parallel arrangement. These sets were the initiation of UL's investigation into antenna coupling capacitors. These capacitors provided the isolation between the TV antenna terminals and the mains voltage. TV sets of those days consumed between 400 and 600 watts. When they were turned on, the cold filaments were a very low impedance, so the turn-on current was very high. The off-on switch was often mounted on the back of the volume control. Eventually, the contact resistance of the switch would grow to the point where the I**2*R power would melt the solder and the power wires would come loose. It was common to have a customer report that his TV was dead, and it was due to the lack of a good connection to the switch. At one company, we had metal bat-handle toggles blow out of the switch due to the cold filament load. Out of this experience, UL developed the requirements for the TV-rated switch, which had specially-designed contacts that would not overheat when used in a TV or similar application. Best regards, Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Heald
RE: TV nostalgia
Which reminds me of other oddball video contraptions. A few years back I had to dispose of a Heathkit GR-2000 25 TV w/onscreen digital clock option. Alas, it worked great, but the digital matrix tuner did not like CATV (ch. 2-13 only). Its entire chassis was copper plated steel. All pcb's were 94V0 and, typical of Heath products, documented more than thoroughly. Very well made! kyle -Original Message- From: Ralph Cameron [mailto:ral...@igs.net] Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 2:41 PM To: Ehler, Kyle; 'Rich Nute'; 'EMC and Safety list' Subject: Re: TV nostalgia And lest we forget the Hallicrafters electrostatic deflection systems. You could sure get a poke off those. Ralph Cameron - Original Message - From: Ehler, Kyle mailto:keh...@lsil.com To: 'Rich Nute' mailto:ri...@sdd.hp.com ; 'EMC and Safety list' mailto:emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 9:23 AM Subject: RE: TV nostalgia My experience was with the Packard-Bell transistorized models. I think the aversion I have was prejudiced by the fellow who mentored me. I had little reason to doubt, but then the sets I worked on, had a callback history that may have been created by my mentor. -kyle -Original Message- From: Rich Nute [ mailto:ri...@sdd.hp.com mailto:ri...@sdd.hp.com ] Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 5:36 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org mailto:emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: TV nostalgia Okay... more nostalgia and a bit on safety back in those days... so that we don't stray too far from the subject matter of this forum. My first TV was a Motorola 7-inch round in a Bakelite cabinet. The speaker was the same size as the CRT. My second was the famous RCA 10-inch round chassis with 32 tubes. I could pull out 15 tubes and still have a usable picture. Kyle mentions Packard Bell, which I considered a straight-forward, good product. It used the Standard Coil turret tuner. The one that won my respect was Muntz TV. It was CHEAP! When you looked inside the chassis, there was nothing there compared to the other TVs. They really knew how to take the cost out of the TV! Amazingly enough, its picture was among the best, and its reliability was indeed the best -- no parts to go bad! The company was owned by Mad Man Muntz, the classic Los Angeles used car dealer. In the mid-fifties, GE came out with a transformerless 17-inch TV. One side of the power line was tied to the chassis (2-wire plug back in those days). The only protection was the plastic knob on the shafts of the various controls. When servicing this TV, you quickly learned never to touch the chassis! The power supply was a simple full-wave rectified power line. The tube heaters were connected in a series-parallel arrangement. These sets were the initiation of UL's investigation into antenna coupling capacitors. These capacitors provided the isolation between the TV antenna terminals and the mains voltage. TV sets of those days consumed between 400 and 600 watts. When they were turned on, the cold filaments were a very low impedance, so the turn-on current was very high. The off-on switch was often mounted on the back of the volume control. Eventually, the contact resistance of the switch would grow to the point where the I**2*R power would melt the solder and the power wires would come loose. It was common to have a customer report that his TV was dead, and it was due to the lack of a good connection to the switch. At one company, we had metal bat-handle toggles blow out of the switch due to the cold filament load. Out of this experience, UL developed the requirements for the TV-rated switch, which had specially-designed contacts that would not overheat when used in a TV or similar application. Best regards, Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: TV nostalgia
95fbd8b0830ed511b7720002a51363f1319...@exw-ks.ks.lsil.com, Ehler, Kyle keh...@lsil.com inimitably wrote: If they were'nt 'hand wired' who/what would have wired the chassis? robots? chimpanzees? Chimpanzees have hands - four of them, really. The implication was that sets that were not hand-wired were assembled by trained turnips. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk This message and its contents are not confidential, privileged or protected by law. Access is only authorised by the intended recipient - this means YOU! The contents may be disclosed to, or used by, anyone and stored or copied in any medium. If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender yesterday at the latest. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
RE: Medical devices in Japan
Hi Nick, To assist you in determining the applicable standards you should contact a representative from JAAME or MHLW at the following address: Japan External Trade Organization (JETRO) New York Health, Labor and Welfare Department McGraw- Hill Building 44th Floor 1221 Avenue of the Americas New York, New York 10020-1060 (212) 997 6471 or 212 997 6472 Fax 212 869 4750 This url doesn't have much info but here it is: http://www.jaame.or.jp/english/index.html Good luck, I wish I could be of more assistance. Mark -Original Message- From: Nick Williams [mailto:nick.willi...@conformance.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 10:02 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject:Medical devices in Japan I've been asked if I know what the regime is for medical devices in Japan. I don't know anything about this, but if there's anyone out there who can give me a brief idea or possibly even some URLs to look at, I'd be grateful. Anyone in the business of providing consultancy in this area please let me know and I'll likely put the enquirer in touch direct. Thanks and regards Nick. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: Does anyone have any information on Rendar in England?
Rendar were taken over a couple of years back by Schurter. The traded for a while as Rendar - Schurter but have now dropped the Rendar part of the name and are just Schurter UK Ltd. They are still operating from the same factory in Bognor and still making the same products such as IEC320 plugs and sockets Their address is :- Schurter Ltd. Durban Rd. Bognor Regis West Sussex PO92 9RX U.K. Their Web Site is www.schurter.co.uk phone number form abroad +44 1243 810810 Schurter have a US subsidiary Schurter Inc. PO Box 750158 Petaluma CA 94975-158 Phone 707 778 6311 - Original Message - From: mkel...@es.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 4:12 PM Subject: Does anyone have any information on Rendar in England? I'm looking for contact information for a company named Rendar in England or for their rep or distributor in the U.S. Thanks in Advance, Max Kelson Evans Sutherland --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: TV nostalgia
RE: TV nostalgiaAnd lest we forget the Hallicrafters electrostatic deflection systems. You could sure get a poke off those. Ralph Cameron - Original Message - From: Ehler, Kyle To: 'Rich Nute' ; 'EMC and Safety list' Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 9:23 AM Subject: RE: TV nostalgia My experience was with the Packard-Bell transistorized models. I think the aversion I have was prejudiced by the fellow who mentored me. I had little reason to doubt, but then the sets I worked on, had a callback history that may have been created by my mentor. -kyle -Original Message- From: Rich Nute [mailto:ri...@sdd.hp.com] Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 5:36 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: TV nostalgia Okay... more nostalgia and a bit on safety back in those days... so that we don't stray too far from the subject matter of this forum. My first TV was a Motorola 7-inch round in a Bakelite cabinet. The speaker was the same size as the CRT. My second was the famous RCA 10-inch round chassis with 32 tubes. I could pull out 15 tubes and still have a usable picture. Kyle mentions Packard Bell, which I considered a straight-forward, good product. It used the Standard Coil turret tuner. The one that won my respect was Muntz TV. It was CHEAP! When you looked inside the chassis, there was nothing there compared to the other TVs. They really knew how to take the cost out of the TV! Amazingly enough, its picture was among the best, and its reliability was indeed the best -- no parts to go bad! The company was owned by Mad Man Muntz, the classic Los Angeles used car dealer. In the mid-fifties, GE came out with a transformerless 17-inch TV. One side of the power line was tied to the chassis (2-wire plug back in those days). The only protection was the plastic knob on the shafts of the various controls. When servicing this TV, you quickly learned never to touch the chassis! The power supply was a simple full-wave rectified power line. The tube heaters were connected in a series-parallel arrangement. These sets were the initiation of UL's investigation into antenna coupling capacitors. These capacitors provided the isolation between the TV antenna terminals and the mains voltage. TV sets of those days consumed between 400 and 600 watts. When they were turned on, the cold filaments were a very low impedance, so the turn-on current was very high. The off-on switch was often mounted on the back of the volume control. Eventually, the contact resistance of the switch would grow to the point where the I**2*R power would melt the solder and the power wires would come loose. It was common to have a customer report that his TV was dead, and it was due to the lack of a good connection to the switch. At one company, we had metal bat-handle toggles blow out of the switch due to the cold filament load. Out of this experience, UL developed the requirements for the TV-rated switch, which had specially-designed contacts that would not overheat when used in a TV or similar application. Best regards, Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: TV nostalgia
John Woodgate wrote: Rich Nute wrote: In the mid-fifties, GE came out with a transformerless 17-inch TV. One side of the power line was tied to the chassis (2-wire plug back in those days). The only protection was the plastic knob on the shafts of the various controls. When servicing this TV, you quickly learned never to touch the chassis! We had transformerless sets earlier in Europe, around 1951 IIRC, because we could get at least 200 V B-plus (see, I can speak American!) from a half-wave rectifier. Wasn't there a transformerless set accomplished by caps somewhere in the distant past? - Doug McKean --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
RE: FCC - radiated emission up to 10th harmonic
Amund, If you do manage to get through, please ask about signals that never leave the silicon of an ASIC (described by Andy others). A strict interpretation of the FCC wording clearly includes all such signals, but it causes us a lot of pain, especially as frequencies continue to climb. As an example, a micro-processor we have used here has as an input, a 66 MHz clock. It then multiplies that up, to say 866 MHz (memory is fuzzy here). That output is immediately divided by 2 (presumably for a good square wave). It's that 433 MHz that's actually used for internal clocking and is published as the operating speed of that particular processor. I have no problem considering the 433 MHz as the highest fundamental even though it never gets onto an IC pin. Harmonics of that will still possibly/likely be on all the bus lines which do go out to pins and PWB etch. However, the 866 MHz is technically the highest frequency signal used even though it presumably is used only to toggle the one internal divider. Regards, Jack Xerox EMC -Original Message- From: am...@westin.org [mailto:am...@westin.org] Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 8:23 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: FCC - radiated emission up to 10th harmonic Hi all! Thanks for responding. I have tried to get in touch with some folks at FCC today, if I manage to get through, I will return with their information / interpretations. Have a nice weekend! Best regards Amund Westin, Oslo/Norway On Fri, 3 Aug 2001 00:29:23 -0700 Don Rhodes don.rho...@infocus.com wrote: I second Jack's thoughts on the wording from part 15, the wording generated or used is very clear. Furthermore, it seems obvious that a PLL generates a new fundamental frequency when multiplying its input frequency. This in turn, of course, creates a new set of harmonics and subharmonics related to the PLL's output frequency. Unfortunately, the FCC's rules do not make exceptions for generated signals which are only used internal to an IC. I know, anyone who's ever struggled with the emissions from a noisy PLL, like myself, has wished for such a break in the rules. Regards, Don EMC Engineering InFocus Corp. -- From:Cook, Jack[SMTP:jack.c...@cax.usa.xerox.com] Reply To:Cook, Jack Sent:Thursday, August 02, 2001 10:27 PM To: 'John Harrington'; Gary McInturff Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: FCC - radiated emission up to 10th harmonic So far, I haven't seen anyone quote the actual wording in FCC Part 15. Here it is, from the table in para. 15.33 (4). Highest frequency generated or used in the device or on which the device operates or tunes (MHz) It doesn't appear to concern itself with *how* the signal is generated (ocillator, PLL, etc.) or whether it's a fundamental or not. So, it seems clear enough to me. Or maybe I'm missing something. Regards, Jack Xerox EMC --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: ESD - time between successive discharges
Greetings, Let me add something to Joe's position (which I agree with entirely) based upon my experience at a former job. Some products with no ground or not so great grounds will need time (one sec or sometimes more) between discharges to ensure that there is no build up of charge on the system. Not only does charge buildup reduce the effect of same polarity discharges, but just think of the discharge level when a unit with a few kV of charge suddenly gets hit with a -XkV event after the polarity change. The effective net discharge is way over the spec and can often cause perceived failures. For the case of no ground (say a handheld battery powered device), a high impedance drain should be used to remove the charge. Ever pick up a handheld device charged to around 8kV? Best regards Dave Heald Joe Finlayson wrote: Amund, My experience has been that the labs would prefer to perform the ESD tests at a rate of 1 pulse/second (pps) for the sake of efficiency. If the product passes then it was completed in the least amount of time and everyone's happy. If the product fails at 1 pps, then you are allowed to decrease the pulse rate until the product passes. If it still fails at lower rates (say 0.1 pps - one ESD event every 10 seconds), then you probably have problems. I've had products fail at 1 pps and pass at 0.5 pps. It took longer to run the test, but it passed and met the requirements of the standard(s). My interpretation of the requirements is that there is no maximum limit between ESD discharges. Thx, Joe -Original Message- From: am...@westin.org [mailto:am...@westin.org] Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 4:07 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: ESD - time between successive discharges Dear members, From IEC61000-4-2 and several EN-product standards, they specify the time between successive discharges to be at least 1 second. But what is the maximum time between each pulse ? I can not see that it is stated in any standards. I guess the test labs use 1 pulse pr second. I feel that the pulse rate can have influences on the EUT performance, so 1 second compared to 3-5 seconds might be the difference between PASS and FAIL. Any suggestions ? Best regards Amund Westin Oslo, Norway -- Get your firstname@lastname email for FREE at http://Nameplanet.com/?su --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
RCIC Hacked again?
I was attempting to search the message board archives and I get a page that states Welcome to http://www.worm.com ! Hacked By Chinese! Anyone else seeing this? Mike Morrow Senior Compliance Engineer Ucentric Systems, LLC 978-823-8166 mi...@ucentric.com
RE: NEMA versus UL type - enviromental ratings
concerning -48vdc systems approved to UL 1950. Are thee any Field Approved quick disconnect connectors ( 2 position ) such as a Amp or Molex mate n'lock? does anyone know exact requirements to make this mate n' lock a field approved connector on -48vdc inputs? thanks Richard, -Original Message- From: Chris Wells [mailto:cdwe...@stargate.net] Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 10:53 PM To: 'emc-pstc' Subject: NEMA versus UL type - enviromental ratings I'm looking for some feedback on NEMA versus UL type - environmental ratings for faceplates of panel mounted components. * First reality check - Are NEMA housing ratings = UL type, number by number? * Second - Can one self certify compliance to NEMA ratings? * Third - What is the difference between NEMA and UL type? I think of the NEMA rating as a proof of design test = rating while the UL type wants design verification at a deeper level? * Forth - Do any of you care about UL types? Our sister divisions design assemblies that use our components and use UL to inspect the design. That is where the pressure is coming from over NEMA. Our product line consists of components mounted to the door of an industrial type enclosure. A pollycarbonate faceplate frames an overlay that contains membrane pushbuttons, embedded LEDs and a window to see our alpha numeric or grahpic display. Between the faceplate and the enclosure panel is a gasket to help keep out moisture, dust etc. We can meet NEMA 1, 12, 3, 3R and for some designs 4 as long as the user installs the component in an enclosure of equal protection. We have tested our design at environmental extremes and it works well. Where it gets difficult is when UL wants an adhesive for the overlay that is specifically qualified to our particular plastic over the range of specified environmental withstand. They want more than a type test and follow up construction inspection but a rather lengthy performance test that goes beyond what we are prepared to do - as if we were the overlay manufactures. Part of the problem is that we have a special additive to the PC plastic - stainless steel fibers for ESD control. This is making for special combinations. So what do others do? Do you have overlay vendors that have coordinated recipe of components/adhesive etc. that works with pollycarbonate from -40 to 60C and comply to UL types (NEMA) types 1, 12, 3, 3R, or 4? Thanks for any FB you can give ! Chris Wells Sen. Des Eng. Cutler-Hammer Pittsburgh Pa well...@ch.etn.com mailto:well...@ch.etn.com
RE: FCC - radiated emission up to 10th harmonic
Hi all! Thanks for responding. I have tried to get in touch with some folks at FCC today, if I manage to get through, I will return with their information / interpretations. Have a nice weekend! Best regards Amund Westin, Oslo/Norway On Fri, 3 Aug 2001 00:29:23 -0700 Don Rhodes don.rho...@infocus.com wrote: I second Jack's thoughts on the wording from part 15, the wording generated or used is very clear. Furthermore, it seems obvious that a PLL generates a new fundamental frequency when multiplying its input frequency. This in turn, of course, creates a new set of harmonics and subharmonics related to the PLL's output frequency. Unfortunately, the FCC's rules do not make exceptions for generated signals which are only used internal to an IC. I know, anyone who's ever struggled with the emissions from a noisy PLL, like myself, has wished for such a break in the rules. Regards, Don EMC Engineering InFocus Corp. -- From:Cook, Jack[SMTP:jack.c...@cax.usa.xerox.com] Reply To:Cook, Jack Sent:Thursday, August 02, 2001 10:27 PM To: 'John Harrington'; Gary McInturff Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: FCC - radiated emission up to 10th harmonic So far, I haven't seen anyone quote the actual wording in FCC Part 15. Here it is, from the table in para. 15.33 (4). Highest frequency generated or used in the device or on which the device operates or tunes (MHz) It doesn't appear to concern itself with *how* the signal is generated (ocillator, PLL, etc.) or whether it's a fundamental or not. So, it seems clear enough to me. Or maybe I'm missing something. Regards, Jack Xerox EMC --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, -- Get your firstname@lastname email for FREE at http://Nameplanet.com/?su --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
RE: TV nostalgia
If they were'nt 'hand wired' who/what would have wired the chassis? robots? chimpanzees? Its funny how the public is led to believe that accepted status quo is somehow better than an emerging technology, but then as Jack points out, paper/phenolic was the best the technology had to offer at acceptable cost until a better understanding of the applications caused the development of improved standards, materials, and processes. Cheers, Kyle LSI Logic Inc. -Original Message- From: Cook, Jack [mailto:jack.c...@cax.usa.xerox.com] Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 2:51 PM To: 'Rich Nute' Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Creepage dist. for more than 1000V ? Rich, Not really absurd given the quality of some of the board construction materials I saw in those early days. For one thing, the materials did not suffer heat well for very long (paper/phenolic?) - remember they were still using tubes or later a mix of tubes semi's. I also worked in TV shops during school and can remember thoroughly cooked PCB materials. Regards, Jack Xerox EMC -Original Message- From: Rich Nute [mailto:ri...@sdd.hp.com] Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 10:45 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Creepage dist. for more than 1000V ? Hi Terry: I don't recall the Sony but do recall the Philco and that Zenith held out with the `hand wired' chassis. Now that you mention it... I do indeed recall that campaign. But, I did not -- then -- realize the context. Today, looking back, that campaign was really quite absurd! But it worked! Best regards, Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: Mains fusing - Purchase specifications
999c839e7e27d41185ec00d0b7473692024cd...@norway.int.rdel.co.uk, Allen, John john.al...@uk.thalesgroup.com inimitably wrote: Kyle make a very valid and serious point in his last paragraph = re-engineering of vendors' products. CE Marking of a vendor's product is a minimum requirement - suitability for the intended application in YOUR system is at least as important. This means preparing an adquate purchasing specification - and demanding proof that it has been met. The OP had a *CB* certification, not 'CE'. This is important. An OEM product's CB certification can be (or ought to be able to be!) relied on by the OEM, but a 'CE' mark CANNOT. For electronic equipment, CE + CE does NOT equal CE. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk This message and its contents are not confidential, privileged or protected by law. Access is only authorised by the intended recipient - this means YOU! The contents may be disclosed to, or used by, anyone and stored or copied in any medium. If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender yesterday at the latest. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: Equipment with External Antenna Connections
2D1037012914D4118DB8204C4F4F50202D5C18@ITLLTD01, Peter Merguerian pmerguer...@itl.co.il inimitably wrote: Are there any European code or installation requirements similar to the North American requirements? What are they? There is nothing Europe-wide, but there are national requirements in Germany and some other countries. There are only recommendations from industry bodies and a BS Code of Practice in UK, and they are not widely observed, particularly about earthing the antenna structure. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk This message and its contents are not confidential, privileged or protected by law. Access is only authorised by the intended recipient - this means YOU! The contents may be disclosed to, or used by, anyone and stored or copied in any medium. If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender yesterday at the latest. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
RE: Does anyone have any information on Rendar in England?
Useful resource: http://www.apgate.com Name I believe changed at one point to Rendar-Schurter but now just known as Schurter: UK: SCHURTER Ltd. Durban Road Bognor Regis West Sussex PO22 9RX Phone: ++44 +1243 810 810 Fax: ++44 +1243 810 800 E-Mail: sa...@schurter.co.uk www.schurter.co.uk USA: SCHURTER Inc. P.O. Box 750 158 Petaluma, USA CA 94975-0158 Phone: ++1 +707 - 778-6311 Fax: ++1 +707 - 778-6401 E-Mail: i...@schurterinc.com www.schurterinc.com -Original Message- From: mkel...@es.com [mailto:mkel...@es.com] Sent: 02 August 2001 16:12 To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Does anyone have any information on Rendar in England? I'm looking for contact information for a company named Rendar in England or for their rep or distributor in the U.S. Thanks in Advance, Max Kelson Evans Sutherland --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
RE: Mains fusing - Purchase specifications
Hi Folks Kyle make a very valid and serious point in his last paragraph = re-engineering of vendors' products. CE Marking of a vendor's product is a minimum requirement - suitability for the intended application in YOUR system is at least as important. This means preparing an adquate purchasing specification - and demanding proof that it has been met. If you make this type of purchase regularly then it is probably worth putting together a generic set of requirements which cover your customers requirements. You might also need a set of internal design guidelines for incorporating the purchased items into your own systems. We get these problems all the time as we design AC mains-powered communications/ITE fits for road/off-road vehicles (often using on-board 230V diesel generators). What is suitable for office use is rarely suitable for these fits without a lot of additional work (shock mounting, extra grounding, additional temperature/humidity control to name but a few areas). In particular, IEC/EN/UL 60950 equipment may well not be suitable for rough environments as there is generally absolutely no environmental testing involved in most evaluations. A couple of years ago we vibrated an industrial PC (admitted for a long time!) and most of the large capacitors in the PSU fell off the PCB's . Also, a large amount of aluminium (I am English - that's how we spell it!) dust was caused by a capactor rubbing on a heatsink, and this finished up all over the primary AC tracks on the PCB's. It still worked but it was very dangerous! It is thus very important to specify exactly what you want of the products you buy - and to make any installations/usage limitations clear in the documents you supply to your customers. Conditions of Acceptability again (and again!). Regards John Allen Thales Defence Communications Bracknell, UK. -Original Message- From: Ehler, Kyle [mailto:keh...@lsil.com] Sent: 02 August 2001 20:57 To: 'Rich Nute'; 'EMC and Safety list' Subject: RE: Mains fusing Thank You so much Rich, Patricia, Mike, Jim, Ed, et al; Please do continue to contribute your wisdom to this forum. I spoke with my LES engineer and good friend at UL. [a good friend at UL is a handy thing!] Someday I should expound on the usefulness of proper care and feeding of your agency engineer.. In our discussions, I pointed out the grey area in 1950 2.6.2 2.7.4 [B] related to the conditions of applicability (PAG), and that this modular product is deployed in a rack mount environment where the mains cord is terminated in a polarized coupler (and disconnect device) making it nearly impossible to reverse the mains. In addition, the rack mount cabinet provides mains distribution to this module through double side breakers. I built my case on these two items and believe I can get an approval upon review. I'm told the remaining problem with this UPS is it fails 61000-4-5 in our lab, although it passes 801-5, and that it also fails conducted emissions when using QP-Avg techniques. I could be in for engineering a fire enclosure to contain wiring, coupler, filter, suppressor, and while in the area, a double side breaker -and of course, the attendant investigative redo. Normally, this would be good reason for vendor rejection, or at least a public drubbing in this forum, but we are committed for the short term to use this vendor's product and I cannot afford to risk any relationships -for now. The decision was never mine to make. And now we are in a familiar loop where the lab is used to re-engineer a vendor's product that is CE marked. Doh!! Statue today, pigeon yesterday... Thanks again, kyle my words, my opinions/mania...etc. -Original Message- From: Rich Nute [ mailto:ri...@sdd.hp.com mailto:ri...@sdd.hp.com ] Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 4:30 PM To: keh...@lsil.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Mains fusing Hi Kyle: I have a new product that includes an off the shelf UPS that is rated for 230V ac operation and has an internal single pole circuit breaker on the mains inlet. We want to target this product world-wide. The UPS presently is CB and certified to EN60950 european only. For North America we want it to have UL1950, and to obtain this, UL is demanding the breaker be double pole. This is an unusual situation. On the one hand, the UPS, with single-pole overcurrent protection, has a CB to EN 60950 for use in Europe where most mains supply plug configurations are non-polar. There is no control that the overcurrent protection will be in the live conductor. On the other hand, the UPS, with single-pole overcurrent protection, is denied UL certification for use in the North America where UL requires polarization of both the UPS overcurrent protection and the mains supply plug configuration. There is a reasonable control that the overcurrent protection will be in the live conductor.
RE: FCC - radiated emission up to 10th harmonic
I second Jack's thoughts on the wording from part 15, the wording generated or used is very clear. Furthermore, it seems obvious that a PLL generates a new fundamental frequency when multiplying its input frequency. This in turn, of course, creates a new set of harmonics and subharmonics related to the PLL's output frequency. Unfortunately, the FCC's rules do not make exceptions for generated signals which are only used internal to an IC. I know, anyone who's ever struggled with the emissions from a noisy PLL, like myself, has wished for such a break in the rules. Regards, Don EMC Engineering InFocus Corp. -- From: Cook, Jack[SMTP:jack.c...@cax.usa.xerox.com] Reply To: Cook, Jack Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 10:27 PM To: 'John Harrington'; Gary McInturff Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: FCC - radiated emission up to 10th harmonic So far, I haven't seen anyone quote the actual wording in FCC Part 15. Here it is, from the table in para. 15.33 (4). Highest frequency generated or used in the device or on which the device operates or tunes (MHz) It doesn't appear to concern itself with *how* the signal is generated (ocillator, PLL, etc.) or whether it's a fundamental or not. So, it seems clear enough to me. Or maybe I'm missing something. Regards, Jack Xerox EMC --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Equipment with External Antenna Connections
Dear All, For equipment with means for connection to an outdoor antenna, Section 810 of the US National Electrical Code, ANSI/NFPA 70, provides information with regard to proper grounding of the mast and supporting structure, grounding of the lead-in wire to an antenna discharge unit, size of grounding conductors, location of antenna-discharge unit, connection to grounding electrodes and requirements for the grounding electrode”. What is the equivalent Section in the Canadian Electrical Code? Unfortunately, I do not have a copy of the CEC! Are there any European code or installation requirements similar to the North American requirements? What are they? PETER S. MERGUERIAN Technical Director I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. 26 Hacharoshet St., POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: + 972-(0)3-5339022 Fax: + 972-(0)3-5339019 Mobile: + 972-(0)54-838175 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: EMC Directives and Norway
3b69ca2b.b9380...@intetron.com, Dan Kwok dk...@intetron.com inimitably wrote: Is there a different set of rules for placing radio transmitters in Norway, Liechtenstein and Iceland? These countries, and Switzerland, are not in the EU. Generally, their technical requirements are the same, but the administrative procedures are different. For Liechtenstein, you almost certainly need to satisfy the requirements for Switzerland. The Commercial Attachés staffs at the relevant Embassies or Legations may be prepared to advise, otherwise you may need to go to a technical export adviser. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co..uk This message and its contents are not confidential, privileged or protected by law. Access is only authorised by the intended recipient - this means YOU! The contents may be disclosed to, or used by, anyone and stored or copied in any medium. If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender yesterday at the latest. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: FCC - radiated emission up to 10th harmonic
ofcfeade86.1b04c8bc-on87256a9c.0075f...@us.datex-ohmeda.com, brent.dew...@us.datex-ohmeda.com inimitably wrote: During a previous life running a test house, we used yet another interpretation. The highest fundamental was the highest frequency brought out of any chip. If a separate VCO distributed 10x of the crystal to other chips, 10x was the number. If the multiplier was purely internal to a part like a lot of CPUs and display chips, the crystal frequency was the highest. What about the emissions from the LEDs? (;-) -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk This message and its contents are not confidential, privileged or protected by law. Access is only authorised by the intended recipient - this means YOU! The contents may be disclosed to, or used by, anyone and stored or copied in any medium. If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender yesterday at the latest. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: FCC - radiated emission up to 10th harmonic
966d119da042d21193780001fa8719c60605c...@caxmail.cax.es.xerox.com, Cook, Jack jack.c...@cax.usa.xerox.com inimitably wrote: So far, I haven't seen anyone quote the actual wording in FCC Part 15. Here it is, from the table in para. 15.33 (4). Highest frequency generated or used in the device or on which the device operates or tunes (MHz) It doesn't appear to concern itself with *how* the signal is generated (ocillator, PLL, etc.) or whether it's a fundamental or not. So, it seems clear enough to me. Or maybe I'm missing something. Yes, the OP quoted FCC as well: QUOTE FCC 2.1057 is about radiated emission. They say :If the equipment operates below 10GHz: to the tenth harmonic of the highest fundamental frequency or to 40 GHz, whichever is lower. UNQUOTE Pale administrative face speak with forked tongue! (;-) -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk This message and its contents are not confidential, privileged or protected by law. Access is only authorised by the intended recipient - this means YOU! The contents may be disclosed to, or used by, anyone and stored or copied in any medium. If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender yesterday at the latest. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: TV nostalgia
200108022235.paa26...@epgc196.sdd.hp.com, Rich Nute ri...@sdd.hp.com inimitably wrote: In the mid-fifties, GE came out with a transformerless 17-inch TV. One side of the power line was tied to the chassis (2-wire plug back in those days). The only protection was the plastic knob on the shafts of the various controls. When servicing this TV, you quickly learned never to touch the chassis! We had transformerless sets earlier in Europe, around 1951 IIRC, because we could get at least 200 V B-plus (see, I can speak American!) from a half-wave rectifier. The power supply was a simple full-wave rectified power line. How could you full-wave rectify the 120 V supply? A bridge rectifier? Or was it a voltage-doubler? The tube heaters were connected in a series-parallel arrangement. Another problem we didn't have. In fact, some sets had a 100 mA heater chain, using peculiarly British (Mazda) valves with B8A bases. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk This message and its contents are not confidential, privileged or protected by law. Access is only authorised by the intended recipient - this means YOU! The contents may be disclosed to, or used by, anyone and stored or copied in any medium. If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender yesterday at the latest. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: Creepage dist. for more than 1000V ?
95fbd8b0830ed511b7720002a51363f1319...@exw-ks.ks.lsil.com, Ehler, Kyle keh...@lsil.com inimitably wrote: Ah yes, the blissful aroma of hot tubes, ozone and fried flybacks..those were the days.. Didn't you have selenium rectifiers, too.? Inhaling selenium dioxide in small amounts can be good for throat infections, but don't overdose! -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk This message and its contents are not confidential, privileged or protected by law. Access is only authorised by the intended recipient - this means YOU! The contents may be disclosed to, or used by, anyone and stored or copied in any medium. If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender yesterday at the latest. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: Machinery Directive Requirements beginning 2002?
There is no such new directive, nor is there any particular change in the status of standards harmonised under the machinery directive. The points listed in your message are all good ideas, but in no way are they immutable mandatory requirements of either the machinery or any other directive. Ask your contact for documentary evidence of the requirement they are quoting, or at least a citation to such evidence. If you get any worthwhile response, let us (the list) know and doubtless we can advise further. Regards Nick. At 16:36 -0500 1/8/2001, rick_hokan...@datacard.com wrote: Hello: I received an email from one of my European Associates today stating the following, in regards to equipment installed in Europe: The changes that are to take effect in Jan 2002 is nothing new but they are going to strictly apply the relevant standards that came into force on Jan 2001. This covered a multitude of sins. Safe working practices, mains safety test before and after repairs. The length of cable from a mains outlet to the system. If it is greater than six foot the cable must be protected (armour cable is the best option, but not the only option) and it must have a separate earth cable as well as the standard within the supply lead. Central earth point which all earth leads must go back to. Inter-locks must fail safe (broken). To name but a few. Has anyone heard of any new Machinery Directive or other safety requirements that will be enforced on January 1st, 2002? Or what requirements may have came into effect on Jan. 1st 2001? Thank you in advance, Rick Hokanson Agency Engineer --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
TV nostalgia
Okay... more nostalgia and a bit on safety back in those days... so that we don't stray too far from the subject matter of this forum. My first TV was a Motorola 7-inch round in a Bakelite cabinet. The speaker was the same size as the CRT. My second was the famous RCA 10-inch round chassis with 32 tubes. I could pull out 15 tubes and still have a usable picture. Kyle mentions Packard Bell, which I considered a straight-forward, good product. It used the Standard Coil turret tuner. The one that won my respect was Muntz TV. It was CHEAP! When you looked inside the chassis, there was nothing there compared to the other TVs. They really knew how to take the cost out of the TV! Amazingly enough, its picture was among the best, and its reliability was indeed the best -- no parts to go bad! The company was owned by Mad Man Muntz, the classic Los Angeles used car dealer. In the mid-fifties, GE came out with a transformerless 17-inch TV. One side of the power line was tied to the chassis (2-wire plug back in those days). The only protection was the plastic knob on the shafts of the various controls. When servicing this TV, you quickly learned never to touch the chassis! The power supply was a simple full-wave rectified power line. The tube heaters were connected in a series-parallel arrangement. These sets were the initiation of UL's investigation into antenna coupling capacitors. These capacitors provided the isolation between the TV antenna terminals and the mains voltage. TV sets of those days consumed between 400 and 600 watts. When they were turned on, the cold filaments were a very low impedance, so the turn-on current was very high. The off-on switch was often mounted on the back of the volume control. Eventually, the contact resistance of the switch would grow to the point where the I**2*R power would melt the solder and the power wires would come loose. It was common to have a customer report that his TV was dead, and it was due to the lack of a good connection to the switch. At one company, we had metal bat-handle toggles blow out of the switch due to the cold filament load. Out of this experience, UL developed the requirements for the TV-rated switch, which had specially-designed contacts that would not overheat when used in a TV or similar application. Best regards, Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: Does anyone have any information on Rendar in England?
1d0833cb3b1d7244b617a0dc8399c27e01c19...@vega.corp.es.com, mkel...@es.com inimitably wrote: I'm looking for contact information for a company named Rendar in England or for their rep or distributor in the U.S. Neutrik (USA), I think. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk This message and its contents are not confidential, privileged or protected by law. Access is only authorised by the intended recipient - this means YOU! The contents may be disclosed to, or used by, anyone and stored or copied in any medium. If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender yesterday at the latest. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: ESD - time between successive discharges
6bd67ffb937fd411a04f00d0b74fe878026ee...@xrose06.rose.hp.com, HALL,KEN (HP-Roseville,ex1) ken_h...@hp.com inimitably wrote: We believe that the probability of identifying an ESD susceptible product is increased dramatically when subjecting the product to continuous discharges. What you mean is that the result depends on the repetition rate, which is not specified in the standard, so that the test results are not repeatable? -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk This message and its contents are not confidential, privileged or protected by law. Access is only authorised by the intended recipient - this means YOU! The contents may be disclosed to, or used by, anyone and stored or copied in any medium. If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender yesterday at the latest. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: Creepage dist. for more than 1000V ?
sb695074@accusort.com, Terry Meck tjm...@accusort.com inimitably wrote: I don't recall the Sony but do recall the Philco and that Zenith held out with the `hand wired' chassis. ITT-KB went back to 'hand-wired' as a marketing point in 1963 (IIRC), because of overheating problems with the previous all-printed designs. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk This message and its contents are not confidential, privileged or protected by law. Access is only authorised by the intended recipient - this means YOU! The contents may be disclosed to, or used by, anyone and stored or copied in any medium. If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender yesterday at the latest. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: Creepage dist. for more than 1000V ?
sb69402e@accusort.com, Terry Meck tjm...@accusort.com inimitably wrote: You can't change the facts. So yes! In the Middle to late 50's. :-) John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk 08/01/01 03:16PM sb67c5fe@accusort.com, Terry Meck tjm...@accusort.com inimitably wrote: I saw the first PCB show up in TVs, Would you care to put a date on that? Well, I asked because in Britain, Kolster-Brandes (part of ITT) TVs had printed boards (just part of the circuit, of course) from 1956. Snap? -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk This message and its contents are not confidential, privileged or protected by law. Access is only authorised by the intended recipient - this means YOU! The contents may be disclosed to, or used by, anyone and stored or copied in any medium. If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender yesterday at the latest. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
