You may be right that this is not the intent of the rules. Others replying
to this thread have mentioned many engineering reasons why testing at 10
meters is preferred over 3 meter testing.
I can only speculate why Cispr would allow measurements at both distance.
My first guess is in an attempt
Ron,
I did not mean to suggest that CISPR 24 provides an adequate level of test
for all environments. Heck, my 5 watt 2 m / 70 cm amateur radio handheld
hits my PC with a lot more than 3 V/m when I'm sitting at my computer
talking to someone. I once measured it at 10 meters (on an 80 cm high
no
When I managed EMC during the 1980's, we were fortunate
enough to hire Dr. Paul as a consultant during the summers for
a few years. He taught EMC courses at the local University of
Kentucky.
We learned a good deal more about theory from him, while he
learned a good deal more about EMI from rea
My point about class A and B in CISPR 22 is NOT irrelevant. If a regulatory
body wishes to override the loose definition in CISPR 22 (as Taiwan has
done, for example), they are free to do so. What I stated about CISPR 22
(and EN 55022) is true and still stands. The FCC Rules are specific about
You have quite the library!
Bill Fleury
-Original Message-
From: wojciech_ba...@nmss.com [mailto:wojciech_ba...@nmss.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 1:20 PM
To: Dan Kwok
Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; marti...@appliedbiosystems.com;
owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subj
I read in !emc-pstc that Pettit, Ghery wrote
(in ) about 'New EMC
standards; now CISPR24/EN55024 query', on Wed, 31 Oct 2001:
>CISPR 24 / EN 55024:1998 is the ITE specific immunity standard. It applies
>to ITE, regardless of the installation location. There are no proposals in
>CISPR SC I at th
I read in !emc-pstc that Ron Pickard wrote (in
) about 'New EMC
standards; now CISPR24/EN55024 query', on Wed, 31 Oct 2001:
>Is the CISPR/G committee working on such a revision? Or will they?
No, because CISPR/G and CISPR/E have merged to form CISPR/I.
But your point is well made. For the indu
Hello Group,
I am in search of opinions regarding the acceptable EUT configuration
for radiated emissions testing. If a system is comprised of one or more
independent shelf-level products (e.g. one shelf in a rack or several
racks full), at what level is it acceptable to test? Assume that the
sy
Hi Richard,
You might want to try the following.
Global Engineering Documents:
http://global.ihs.com/
ANSI:
http://web.ansi.org/
Pro's 7 Con's. ANSI is more likely to have separate amendments, documents that
are generally less
expensive, and have more documents in electronic format. Global w
Hello,
I am looking for an NVLAP or A2LA accredited lab which can perform the IEC 60068
series of tests for vibration and environmental (Cold, Dry Heat, Damp Heat
Cyclic). It would be nice if this lab or labs was located on the West Cost.
Please let me know if you know of any.
Regards,
Don
-
Yes, but ...
EN55022:1998 (10.2.1) says measurements at other distances can be made with
Class B ITE "... measurement at 10 m cannot be made because of high ambient
noise levels, or for other reasons, ...".
Are you interpreting the "other reasons" as meaning if one doesn't have a 10
m facil
Here are my favorite:
All of them are good in many areas of PCB design (use many point from all
of them in my designs):
EMC and Signal Integrity Books:
Analysis of Multiconductor Transmission Lines
Clayton R. Paul, John Wiley & Sons, 1994. ISBN 0-471-02080-X
Architectural Electromagnetic S
Where can I obtain an amendment to a CENELEC standard? I am spending a small
fortune having to buy the complete amended standard from BSI every time it
is revised.
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product
There are probably many good books out there but here are my favorites:
Johnson & Graham
High-Speed Digital Design
A Handbook of Black Magic
Prentice Hall
ISBN 0-13-395724-1
Clayton Paul
Introduction to Electromagnetic Compatibility
Wiley Interscience publication
ISBN 0-471-54927-4
Johnson & Gr
Ron,
CISPR 24 / EN 55024:1998 is the ITE specific immunity standard. It applies
to ITE, regardless of the installation location. There are no proposals in
CISPR SC I at this time to create a new version of CISPR 24 for an
industrial location. EN 50082-2 does NOT apply as once a product specifi
Hi Nick et al,
Your email on these standards has poked into the recesses and brought out a
question that I've been
meaning to ask relating to ITE immunity environment applicability.
In the scope of CISPR 24/EN55024, ITE is defined in CISPR 22, which breaks down
ITE into 2 classes
(A & B). Unf
Dear Colleagues,
One year ago I put together some information regarding this subject; (I have
as well the Bibliography for it).
In my opinion, all the participants at this discussion, made very useful
observations.
Respectfully yours,
Constantin
Constantin Bolintineanu P.Eng.
DIGITAL SECURI
Stuart,
It depends on the regulatory body you are dealing with and whether this is a
class B product or not. The note in CISPR 22 that allows testing at
alternate distances applies only to class B products. BSMI in Taiwan is
adamant about wanting 10 meter data. The limits would be about 10 dB
From: Douglas Beckwith@MITEL on 10/31/2001 12:00 PM
I agree with everthing that has been said so far. The trouble comes with what
the agency "deems" to be critical. My experience with approvals agencies has
been that their definition of "Safety Critical" is somewhat unscientific. I have
often f
H, interesting. Sounds to me like I have a competitive advantage with
the blessing of the FCC.
This appears to be a business opportunity . . . think I will open a test
lab and offer approvals for less costly designs considering the apparent
"relaxation".:-)
> --
> From:
George & friends
As I actually said in one of my earlier messages, the metal
enclosure/housing CAN be a "safety critical part" AND can also be a
"compliance critical part", so I think it SHOULD show up on the "critical
parts list".
John Allen
-Original Message-
From: geor...@lexmark.com
Hi Folks
I agree strongly with Oscar's comments and previous approach - "Compliance
critical" is a far better term. It also means that you can have "EN60950
compliance critical", " EMC compliance critical" etc, as you like without
confusion.
However the widespread existing use of "safety critica
I would also recommend "Printed Circuit Board Design Techniques For EMC
Compliance", 2nd Edition, by Mark Montrose.
Well written, easy to follow and many good illustrations.
Regards,
Bill Fleury
-Original Message-
From: John Howard [mailto:jhow...@emcguru.com]
Sent: Tuesday, Octo
Hi Joe,
I would also recommend another book by Mark Montrose:
"Printed Circuit Board Design Techniques for EMC Compliance", 2nd Ed., ISBN
0-7803-5376-5.
IEEE Press
Also, Mark posts errata information for his books on his website.
Good luck in your search.
Best regards,
Ron Pickard
rpick...
I like John's recommendations
Of all the books he lists my favorites are Paul, Ott, and Johnson.
I have not finished Hall, Hall, and McCall yet.
Early on Mardiguian wrote about some good troubleshooting
ideas and techniques that Scott Roleson had also published (I'm not sure who
was first).
Joh
It is a major misconception that SAFETY CRITICAL ITEMS (SCI) must be big or
even tangible - as John so rightly points out ANYTHING that affects safety
is a SCI and must be controlled.
Hence Colour - Language and Size of FONT.
G
Eurolink Ltd. -One Link-199 Countries
P.O. Box 310
Reedville, Virgi
There are at least two possible definitions of this term. Under the
60950 standards, these would be the components listed by an approving
agency deemed to be "safety critical". The other is any part, listed
or not, that contributes to the overall safety of the device. For
example, a metal hou
I agree. The comment was meant to imply the requirement to comply with
whatever instructions that the FCC provided, not that the TCB was free to
interpret. If all instructions were followed, then, as an extension of the
FCC, any testing and approval within the scope of the TCB program is valid.
Gregg brings up a good point.
I haven't followed all of this thread and I hope I'm not repeating someone else;
but, just in case:
Some of the things necessary to comply with the standards have less to do with
safety than they do with compliance to the standard.
Or in some cases the safety implic
Effective January 1, 2002. Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter (AFCI) protection
devices will be required for all 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere
receptacle outlets installed in dwelling unit bedrooms (1999 NEC). The 2002
NEC requires AFCI protection for all 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and
Hi Folks
This is sent separately to my reply regarding IEC 61508 etc., as it
addresses an entirely different issue.
The decision as to what should be classified as a safety critical component
("SCC") in the context of 60950 (etc.) should take into account the overall
construction and use of the
Hi Folks
A few words of warning on the context of the above
Most of the definitions or descriptions for "safety critical component"
given so far are reasonably accurate and straightforward in the context of
strict compliance with IEC/EN/UL EQUIPMENT safety standards such as 60335,
60950 61010
Joe,
I propose Mark I. Montrose: "EMC and the Printed Circuit Board, Design
Theory and Layout Made Simple", ISBN 0-7803-4703-X.
Good luck!
Best regards
Amund Westin, Oslo/Norway
-Opprinnelig melding-
Fra: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
[mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]Pa ve
Hi Joe, and All
I would suggest several excellent texts which will contribute to
the subject. I
use these in the EMC courses which I teach on PCB design.
"Control and Measurement of Unintentional Electromagnetic Radiation"
W. Scott Bennett --- John Wiley & Sons, New York, 1
Sorry the change to HTML was necessary to format the table.
Critical Components will including Paint (colour of the product), Labels and
Instructions. There can be no definitive answer - hazards are in the eye of
the beholder.
The following is a good starting point - use the similarity rule to
Stuart,
Cispr 22:1997 clause 10.2.1 answers your question. The earlier version of
Cispr 22 has similar wording.
For Class B equipment you may use a 20 dB/decade extrapolation to correct
measured data, to compare to the limits, at closer distances. The rules do
not say that the same is allowed
I would think that the NSA would just be a linear extension (same slope) as
below 1 GHz.
--
>From: "KC CHAN [PDD]"
>To:
>Subject: SAC up to 18GHz emission measurement
>Date: Tue, Oct 30, 2001, 6:55 PM
>
>
> Hi all
>
> Recently I heard that one of the test houses in UK has upgraded the
Do not assume that a TCB is an extension of the FCC. Think of a
TCB as a outsourced subcontractor reviewing reports. They are not
allowed to interpret the Rules. If there is a question regarding
interpretation,
they, the TCB, will have recourse to the FCC.
End of Story.
John Shinn, P.E.
Manag
Hi,
As I believe, class B (domestic appliances) are allowed for the 3 M method
whereas Class A may not.
Regards
Patrick Wong
EED
HKSTC
- Original Message -
From: "John Woodgate"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 4:23 AM
Subject: Re: EN 55022 limits
>
> I read in !emc-pstc that S
Hi all
Recently I heard that one of the test houses in UK has upgraded the SAC to 18
GHz(emission measurement).
But since the NSA is only for below 1 GHz so far, what is the criteria that it
would be to prove that it can be used for up to 18 GHz.
Thank You
KC
---
Copies of BS EN 61000-6-1, -6-2, -6-3 and -6-4:2001 dropped through
my letter box today.
I am not, and have never claimed to be, an EMC specialist. I can read
and understand much of the new standards but I don't have the level
of familiarity required to quickly understand how they change the
Definition for Safety Critical ComponentI'll add to Richard's
definition by saying a "Safety Critical Component"
is a component necessary for the safety approval of the product.
It's a component that prevents a person (end user or service person)
from being exposed to a hazardous condition either
To all,
What book would you recommend for designing printed circuit boards for EMI
suppression? Why?
Regards
Joe Martin
---
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