Hi Lauren:
There are different definitions for "safety-critical
component" based on the different needs for identification
of such components. I'd like to list a few, and then
offer yet a different definition of a safety-critical
component.
1. A safety-critical component is a component w
Hello Stuart,
Visit the Safety Link , then, using your browser's
FIND function (Control F for IE or NetScape), input the term "New Approach
(Cooperative site"
This will take you to a link that delivers your query to the EU New
Approach site.
Upon arrival there, click on the link titled, "Direct
David,
On a similar note I had heard that an EUT shelter might demonstrate a 6 dB
variation between wet and dry conditions, or dirty vs. clean (pressure
cleaned) condition.
Did the papers comment on wood properties? Perhaps identifying soft wood
vs. hard wood, minerals absorbed during growth,
Hi,
One metric that is missing is the cost of over-design. As we all know
EMC design is not quite a precise science :) but it is relatively easy
to make anything comply first time if cost, and size are ignored!
Depending upon the cost sensitivity of the product you might not want to
pass cleanl
I read in !emc-pstc that Ken Javor wrote
(in <20011101170447.RTSO12020.femail23.sdc1.sfba.home.com@[65.11.150.27]
>) about 'Have we lost something? was John Woodgate - RE: New EMC
standards; now CISPR24/EN55024 query', on Thu, 1 Nov 2001:
>My opinion only.
No, it is shared by a significant nu
I read in !emc-pstc that Pettit, Ghery wrote
(in ) about 'New EMC
standards; now CISPR24/EN55024 query', on Thu, 1 Nov 2001:
>I feel that immunity is
>a product quality issue and is best left to a manufacturer as a customer
>satisfaction issue and should not be a regulatory matter.
A lot of pe
CENELE lists the scope, or part of it, on its site http://www.cenelec.org/
For example, here is what they say about EN 55022:
This standard applies to ITE as defined in 3.1. Procedures are given for the
measurement of the levels of spurious signals generated by the lTE and
limits are specified f
I read in !emc-pstc that POWELL, DOUG wrote (in
) about 'EMC
test table construction plans', on Thu, 1 Nov 2001:
>1) I will be testing products that weight up to 200 Lbs (91 kg).
No problem
>
>2) I want to minimize metalic fastners.
No problem
>
>3) I would like to make it a pivoting table (not
Doug,
For emissions and immunity you should not use any wood in the table. It will
significantly (+/-2 dB up to 1 GHz for emissions , more above, +/-10 dB for
immunity up to 1 GHz) change the test result. My experience has shown that
Styrofoam is basicly the best material. There are a couple of p
If I have product xyz (generic) how do I go about finding the relevant
standards that it must comply with for EN-BS/IEC/ETSI (European)?
Of course, simply by looking at the list of standards titles I can get
somewhat of an idea if they are relevant. However, I cannot view their scope
without buyi
A . . . naiveté! I remember those days . . .
Break it to him/her gently.
John Juhasz
Fiber Options
Bohemia, NY
-Original Message-
From: CE-test - Ing. Gert Gremmen - ce-marking and more...
[mailto:cet...@cetest.nl]
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 2:54 PM
To: Ken Javor; Gregg Kerv
Hi Doug,
The following expresses some of my experiences.
>I plan to construct my own insulated EMC test table for a 5 meter chamber.
>Seems simple enough to do and I could easily come up with something. I
>thought I might first ask for input from those of you in the discussion
>group who have
My management is asking each engineering group to devise and apply metrics
to our department operations. I have struggled for a couple of years to
devise meaningful metrics as applied to EMC and product safety compliance
testing and certification , but with little success. Some ideas have been:
*
All,
Thanks for the many inputs on the idea of Safety Critical Components.
For those that are interested, here is a general summary of the input I
recieved.
Safety vs. Compliance
=
A key issue that should be brought into the analysis of safety critical
parts is that many p
I believe the philosophical debate is whether industry can take care of
itself (a free market) or whether gov't must step in and take control.
Regardless of the technical issues, dense spectrum
occupancy/safety/whatever, industry standards can solve the issue. For
instance, EN 55022 comes from C
Hmmm,
Interesting point. I agree with Ken's assesment for the most part.
Setting a minimum level for marketability levels the playing field
(which governments like). But they lend the same customer credibility
to the minimally compliant as the super compliant (which consumers may
or may not lik
Gert,
You are absolutely correct. 1/R does not work between 3 and 10 meters and
testing a product at 3 meters using this factor can lead to unpleasant
surprises at 10 meters. However, good, bad or indifferent, CISPR 22 uses it
when testing at distances other than 10 meters. Caveat engineer.
G
What are some of the most cost effective CISRP 16 compliant receivers/SAs
available today?
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
-Original Message-
From: Sundstrom Michael (NMP-RD/Dallas)
[mailto:michael.sundst...@nokia.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 2:08 PM
To: 'Ken Javor'; Mur
You are right ???
May I add the following quoted part of an email inquiry we received
today from one "reputable" USA manufacturer I received today in my mail box
:
QUOTE
I apologize for the delay in responding back to you, but my boss is
informing me that we simply have to
University of Missouri, Rolla has a post graduate EMC program, as well.
For a credential, try the NARTE EMC Engineer and Technician certification
programs.
Ghery S. Pettit, NCE
-Original Message-
From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk]
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 8:58
Doug,
I am not sure what you mean by pivoting.
We created a table that has the features listed below and include knock-down
for flat storage. For a small square table, we used 3/4" plywood for top
and legs. The legs were slotted and hollowed, and fit together in a
perpendicular slot to slot fas
I guess the most significant difference is that analyzers normally don't
have a Quasipeak detector which is required for this measurements
Best Regards
Lothar Schmidt
Technical Manager EMC/Radio
BQB
CETECOM Inc.
411 Dixon Landing Road
Milpitas, CA 95035
* +1 408 586 6214
* +1 408 586 6299
--
I read in !emc-pstc that Gregg Kervill wrote (in
<002f01c162e8$ca3f3800$7300a8c0@MENHADEN>) about 'Have we lost
something? was John Woodgate - RE: New EMC standards; now
CISPR24/EN55024 query', on Thu, 1 Nov 2001:
>Is there a need for a recognized EMC or safety credential?
York University in UK
I don't know about Part 18, but because the modem connects to the
telecom network, it would have to comply with Part 68.
John P. Wagner
Regulatory Compliance & Mandatory Standards
AVAYA Strategic Standards.
1300 W. 120th Ave, Room B3-D16
Phone/Fax: (303) 538-4241
johnwag...@avaya.com
> ---
Can anyone point me in the direction of vendors/labs that can calibrate a
Schaffner receiver?
Best Regds
Bayode
---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.
Visit our web site at: http://www
Most analyzers are not CISPR 16 compliant. Receivers are always easer to
read QP and Avg. directly. If you can pass the CISPR limits with a peak
reading (analyzer), you can most definitely pass the QP / Avg. limits
with a receiver.
For official testing a compliant (CISPR 16) device is always nee
Doug,
You might want to look at a paper that was presented at the Montreal IEEE
EMC Symposium by HP on measurements that they made on a table when starting
to test above 1 GHz. As you know, the FCC (ANSI C63.4) and CISPR 22
requirements simply call out that the table should be non-conducting.
Th
I did find a lower cost alternative - IEC. At least when the CENELEC
standard is identical with the IEC standard. The cost of the amendments are
about half that of what I could find elsewhere and they are downloadable.
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
-Original Message-
From: Ron
Hi Ghery,
>CISPR 24 / EN 55024:1998 is the ITE specific immunity standard. It applies
to ITE, regardless of the installation location.
So, an ITE would then be designed for all intended environments when testing to
the single set of
limits of CISPR 24 /EN55024?
>There are no proposals in CIS
Hello all,
I plan to construct my own insulated EMC test table for a 5 meter chamber.
Seems simple enough to do and I could easily come up with something. I
thought I might first ask for input from those of you in the discussion
group who have experience or maybe even construction plans. Here a
My opinion only. There was a time when the reputation of a manufacturer or
business in general was a very important part of the success of that
company, and the honesty and integrity of that company, extending to high
quality products, was the major part of a good reputation. That is part of
a f
John,
I believe that is a major part of the reason. It certainly was one of the
arguments that was used to kill a recent proposal in CISPR to create
specific limits at 3 meters for both class A and class B devices. The
proposal had a size limit for the EUT, but died anyway.
Ghery
-Origina
I meant 22. The last sentence might have been clearer had it read "To bring
the FCC Rules into a discussion about CISPR 22 compliance levels is
irrelevant." However, changing 22 to 24 still makes a true statement in my
opinion. That would agree with your statement about emissions and immunity
r
John,
I have no argument with you on that point. A product that will not function
in its intended environment is rather useless. However, as an anarchist
Yank (well, that might be putting it a bit too strongly, but I do believe in
limited government - a topic for some other forum), I feel that
Muriel,
Unless your spectrum analyzer is equipped with a tracking pre-selector, or a
high pass filter, you run the risk of high level emissions at frequencies
below 150 kHz desensitizing the front end. This will result in readings
that are lower than the actual levels. I remember seeing this a
Does a medical device that connects to a blood pressure unit and sends info
over the phone lines need to be tested under part 18. I think not, however,
it is a medical device. Please comment.
Sincerely,
Stuart Lopata
---
This message is from the IEEE
Assuming 50/60 Hz power and CE measurements made at a CISPR 16 LISN EMI
port, the only possible difference I can think of is increased probability
of 50/60 Hz overload with a spectrum analyzer capable of measurements that
low. If your spectrum analyzer doesn't tune below 9 kHz, that shouldn't be
Howdy all,
I hate to ask this loaded question. But, I must.
For accredited EMC labs how are you addressing uncertainty?
I've read NIS 81, NIST TN 1297, a few papers published in the IEEE Symposium
Notes, and my Statistics text book.
My basic question, is there an "easy", step-by-step method
Hello Group,
I am also looking at the lab accreditation process and would appreciate your
opinions on NVLAP compared to A2LA.
Please email me directly. Responses will be kept confidential.
Regards,
Don MacArthur
--
This e-mail may contai
I agree whole heartedly with John's point.And while deliberation may not
always be a bad thing, a lack of immunity in an industrial computer must
always be a bad thing, and very possibly a BAD THING!
--
However it is not so much a lack of standards but a lack of will and
commitment to Quality
My opinion only. The reason for not allowing the 3 m test for Class A is
that the limit is higher than for Class B so the rationale for moving in to
3 m separation and raising the limit is not as persuasive.
--
>From: John Woodgate
>To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
>Subject: Re: EN 5502
Hello Group,
What are the differences that result using:
1. A Spectrum Analyzer (SA)
or
2. A Receiver
When I make measurements of conducted emissions of an equipment??
Best Regards
Muriel
---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
I read in !emc-pstc that Pettit, Ghery wrote
(in ) about 'EN
55022 limits', on Wed, 31 Oct 2001:
>The note in CISPR 22 that allows testing at
>alternate distances applies only to class B products.
What is the justification for not allowing it for Class A? Is it assumed
that Class A products mi
I read in !emc-pstc that Pettit, Ghery wrote
(in ) about 'New EMC
standards; now CISPR24/EN55024 query', on Wed, 31 Oct 2001:
>Even then, changes in CISPR
>documents occur at glacial speed. This isn't always a bad thing, either.
Things are changing, even in CISPR. And while deliberation may not
I read in !emc-pstc that Scott Lemon wrote
(in <3be064c5.e48c3...@caspiannetworks.com>) about 'Radiated Emissions
EUT Config', on Wed, 31 Oct 2001:
>I am in search of opinions regarding the acceptable EUT configuration
>for radiated emissions testing. If a system is comprised of one or more
>inde
I read in !emc-pstc that Pettit, Ghery wrote
(in ) about 'New EMC
standards; now CISPR24/EN55024 query', on Wed, 31 Oct 2001:
>My point about class A and B in CISPR 22 is NOT irrelevant. If a regulatory
>body wishes to override the loose definition in CISPR 22 (as Taiwan has
>done, for example),
I read in !emc-pstc that Cook, Jack wrote
(in <966d119da042d21193780001fa8719c60605d...@caxmail.cax.es.xerox.com>)
about 'EN 55022 limits', on Wed, 31 Oct 2001:
>Are you interpreting the "other reasons" as meaning if one doesn't have a 10
>m facility, then it's ok to test at 3 m? I'm a tiny bit
Dear All,
Anyone one knows what CE-IIA or CE-IIB mean? I assume Class IIA or Class
IIB. Is this from the Pressure Equipment Directive? The product in question
is an automatic hydraulic control valve.
Regards,
This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If
you are not
I read in !emc-pstc that wo...@sensormatic.com wrote (in <846BF526A205F8
4BA2B6045BBF7E9A6ABC4DF5@flbocexu05>) about 'CENELEC Ammendments', on
Wed, 31 Oct 2001:
>Where can I obtain an amendment to a CENELEC standard? I am spending a small
>fortune having to buy the complete amended standard from B
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