Re: [PSES] The NPR news quiz

[Scott Douglas]

7/11. Good-ish


On Fri, Nov 10, 2023, 5:38 PM Richard Nute  wrote:

>
> *Final score: 5/11.* Lackluster.
>
>
> *https://www.npr.org/2023/11/10/1211700159/donald-trump-election-debate-gop-animals-npr-news-quiz?utm_source=npr_newsletter_medium=email_content=20231110_term=9074533_campaign=news_id=61871060=151_att1=*
> 
>
>
>
>
> --
>
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[PSES] 50Hz Product and the EMC Directive

[Scott Douglas]

Hello List Experts,

We have a product that operates at line frequency (50 or 60 Hz). It is a 
power conditioner which includes filtering, surge suppression, and 
extreme voltage shut down. It is purely analog and contains nothing more 
complex than transistors.


We believe the EU EMC Directive does not apply to the product because it 
does not operate any higher than 60 Hz and cannot generate EMI whether 
radiated or conducted.


FromEU Directive 2014/30/EU, Article 2 (2 (d)):


2. This Directive shall not apply to:

(d) equipment the inherent nature of the physical characteristics of 
which is such that:


(i) it is incapable of generating or contributing to electromagnetic 
emissions which exceed a level allowing radio and telecommunication 
equipment and other equipment to operate as intended; and
(ii) it operates without unacceptable degradation in the presence of the 
electromagnetic disturbance normally consequent upon its intended use;


I am not aware of any EMI standards that cover this type of product, 
most conducted EMI starts at 9kHz or 150 kHz, and radiated EMI typically 
starts at 30 MHz.


There is an inspector in an EU country that believes the EMC Directive 
does apply. Their letter makes these statements:


The EU Declaration of Conformity (DoC) is incorrect or incomplete 
(Article 15; Annex IV; etc. of EU Directive 2014/30/EU).


A conformity assessment procedure seems to be incomplete (Article 14) to 
demonstrate that the apparatus meets the essential requirements set out 
in Article 6 and Annex I of EU Directive 2014/30/EU. EU Directive 
2014/30/EU is missing.



Our DofC does not list the EMC Directive, specifically because we think 
it does not apply. It also does not list any EMI/EMC standards as we 
find none that apply.


Is there a Harmonized Standard that would cover this type of product for 
the EMC Directive?


Is it normal to list a directive in a DofC if that directive does not 
apply?


How does one convince the inspector that the directive does not apply?

 Looking forward to any and all comments.

Scott

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[PSES] EMC-PSTC List Admin Wanted

[Scott Douglas]

Hello All,

I have decided to retire from my position as a List Admin for the 
EMC-PSTC List. Been doing this for a few years and figured it was about 
time someone else got a chance to take on this role.


If anyone on the list is interested, please contact Dan Roman 
 or myself.


Happy Summer!

Scott

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Re: [PSES] Multiple Power cord-sets bundled with product

[Scott Douglas]

Chuck,

We ship up to 4 power cords with plenty of products without any issues. The
only complaint is from product managers trying to squeeze every last bit of
margin out of products. Those extra $6 or so get thrown out in most cases.

In past lives we did what Doug suggested. Made the power cord a separate
line on the customer order. That worked well for us. Only issue there was
the power cord was not packed in the box with the product.

Scott




On Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 11:19 AM Douglas E Powell  wrote:

> Chuck,
>
> My experience has been that sometimes it works, other times not.  I
> understand the desire ensure the end user get the cord set they actually
> need, but I've also seen where there is backlash.  Some recipients simply
> throw away the cord they don't need.
>
> The best solution I've seen, is to structure top-level BOMs with a generic
> product BOM as one of the "components" and then add country specific
> sub-assemblies, labels, translated user manuals, etc. I've even seen where
> top-level BOMs will have the 2-letter ISO 3166 country code baked into the
> part number.  Keeping in mind, the ISO 639 language codes are not the same
> as country codes.
>
> Best of luck,  Doug
>
> Douglas E Powell
> Laporte, Colorado USA
> doug...@gmail.com
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 21, 2021 at 12:01 PM Charles Jackson <
> 156eedbcc0fd-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> wrote:
>
>> Hello
>>
>> I’m wondering if anyone has experience and/or specific information on
>> legal/customs requirements that restrict the bundling of multiple region
>> power cord-sets with a product.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks in advance
>>
>> Chuck
>> -
>> 
>>
>> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
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>> emc-p...@ieee.org
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>
>
> --
>
> Douglas E Powell
>
> doug...@gmail.com
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01
> -
> 
>
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Re: [PSES] Rejected posting to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

[Scott Douglas]

Hi Robert,

I looked over your email and viewed the message headers. Did not see 
anything that might give a clue. Then I logged in to List management 
tonight and tried to search for your name or email address including 
partial variants. Your address was not on the list. This explains why 
you could not post.


So, I subscribed you to the list and you should get an email from the 
list very shortly.


Once you receive that email, try to send to the list again and let me 
know what happens.


I will try and see if I can figure out why you were not on the list tonight.

Regards,
Scott


On 2/4/2021 8:57 AM, Robert Kado wrote:

Test




Robert Kado
EMC Engineering & Laboratories
Sr Manager & Sr Technical Fellow

800 E. Chrysler Drive
CIMS 481-47-20
Auburn Hills, MI, USA

Telephone: (248) 576 - 6915
Mobile: (248) 467 - 0639
robert.k...@stellantis.com <mailto:robert.k...@stellantis.com>

On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 11:50 AM Scott Douglas <mailto:sdouglas...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Robert,

I checked the list and your new email address is there. Please
send a test message to the list and cc Mike and I. I want to look
at the message header to see  if there is anything that may block you.

Regards,
Scott


On Tue, Feb 2, 2021, 6:49 AM Robert Kado
mailto:robert.k...@stellantis.com>>
wrote:

Can someone help with this?  I sent a note a few weeks
back...multiple attempts to change it on my own do not seem to
have worked.

Thank you.

*Robert Kado*

*EMC Engineering & Laboratories*

Sr Manager & Sr Technical Fellow

800 E. Chrysler Drive

CIMS 481-47-20

Auburn Hills, MI, USA

Telephone: (248) 576 - 6915

Mobile: (248) 467 - 0639

robert.k...@stellantis.com <mailto:robert.k...@stellantis.com>



-- Forwarded message -
From: *IEEE LISTSERV Server (16.5)*
mailto:lists...@listserv.ieee.org>>
Date: Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 9:48 AM
Subject: Rejected posting to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
To: mailto:robert.k...@stellantis.com>>


You  are  not  authorized  to  send   mail  to the  EMC-PSTC 
list  from  your
robert.k...@stellantis.com <mailto:robert.k...@stellantis.com>
account. You might be authorized to post to the list
from another account, or perhaps when  using another mail
program configured to
use a different  email address. However, LISTSERV has no  way
to associate this
other account or address with yours. If  you need assistance
or if you have any
questions regarding  the policy of the  EMC-PSTC list, please
contact  the list
owners at emc-pstc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org
<mailto:emc-pstc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>.



-- Forwarded message --
From: Robert Kado mailto:robert.k...@stellantis.com>>
To: "James Pawson (U3C)" mailto:ja...@unit3compliance.co.uk>>
Cc: "EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>"
mailto:EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org>>
Bcc:
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 09:47:48 -0500
Subject: Re: [PSES] ISO 7637-3 (automotive)
We created the document specific to the transportation
industry so predominantly automotive but I am also aware of
agriculture, truck & bus, and even avionics/aerospace
referencing it or utilizing it at times.

Thank you.

*Robert Kado*

*EMC Engineering & Laboratories*

Sr Manager & Sr Technical Fellow

800 E. Chrysler Drive

CIMS 481-47-20

Auburn Hills, MI, USA

Telephone: (248) 576 - 6915

Mobile: (248) 467 - 0639

robert.k...@stellantis.com <mailto:robert.k...@stellantis.com>



On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 9:45 AM James Pawson (U3C)
mailto:ja...@unit3compliance.co.uk>> wrote:

Hello experts,

Does anyone know what standards call up or mandate the use
of the automotive standard ISO 7637-3 (coupling of noise
onto non-supply lines)?

There is nothing in R10.06 or ISO 7637-2 that I can see.

Thanks in advance

James

James Pawson

*Unit 3 Compliance Ltd*

www.unit3compliance.co.uk
<http://www.unit3compliance.co.uk/> // +44(0)7811 139957

2 Wellington Business Park, New Lane, Bradford, BD4 8AL

Registered in England and Wales # 10574298

-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering
Society emc-pstc discus

Re: [PSES] ROHS and DoC

[Scott Douglas]

I used to get complaints I was not up to date when I said 2011/65/EU as
amended. Now I say 2011/65/EU as amended by 2015/863. No more complaints.



On Sat, Nov 21, 2020, 12:57 PM Charlie Blackham <
char...@sulisconsultants.com> wrote:

> Amund
>
> Whilst 2015/863 updates 2011/65/EU, you do not CE mark to it.
> The DoC must be to 2011/65/EU
>
> Some people concentrate a lot on 2015/863 but there have been far more
> Delegated Directives dealing with exemptions than just this one dealing
> with substances  (
> https://ec.europa.eu/environment/waste/rohs_eee/legis_en.htm)
>
> Best regards
> Charlie
>
> Charlie Blackham
> Sulis Consultants Ltd
> Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
> Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/
> Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Amund Westin 
> Sent: 21 November 2020 10:01
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: [PSES] ROHS and DoC
>
> For EU compliance, I assume Directive 2011/65/EU is still the correct
> reference to use?
> I see several parties who is referring to 2015/863 in their DoC, but isn't
> that reference just a replacement for Annex II in 2011/65/EU?
>
> Best regards
> Amund
>
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <
> emc-p...@ieee.org>
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> -
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Re: [PSES] Low Voltage Products and EN 62368-1 and -3

[Scott Douglas]

Gentlemen,

Thank you for your replies to my query.

First,  I do realize that the standards cannot require compliance but 
that the directives or regulations of local authorities do. It was just 
my poor writing that does not make that clear.


Second, there is no radio involved in these products so the RED would 
not apply. I should have mentioned that in my original post.


Now off to write that risk analysis.

Thank you again for your help.

Scott


On 10/1/2020 2:09 AM, Charlie Blackham wrote:


Bernd

>So you may either create your own exhaustive risk analysis for your 
products, or claim compliance with the applicable product safety 
standard EN 62368-1, to demonstrate that your complete product does 
not present a risk and complies with the safety objectives of the LVD


A Risk assessment is required whether or not a Harmonised Standard is used

Just because a Standard is Harmonised, it does not mean that it will 
always cover the risks of a product that you have chosen to assess 
against it.


This is explained in more detail in § 61 of the LVD Guide, 
https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/31221 :


The technical documentation shall include an adequate analysis and 
assessment of the risk(s). In this respect, the Blue Guide presupposes 
a good evaluation of the risks of the product and a match between the 
risks analyses and risks covered by the standards. But the fact that 
harmonised standards are chosen to address the product risks, does not 
mean that a previous risk assessment of the product is not necessary.


A HS may well cover all this risks presented by a product, but it 
cannot be assumed – in part because standards always lag the 
development of new technologies and new applications.


Best regards

Charlie

**

*Charlie Blackham*

*Sulis Consultants Ltd*

*Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317*

*Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ *

Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

*From:*Dürrer Bernd 
*Sent:* 30 September 2020 08:35
*To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
*Subject:* [PSES] AW: [PSES] Low Voltage Products and EN 62368-1 and -3

Hi Scott,

please note that Annex III of the EU LVD requires a risk analysis as 
part of the technical documentation 
(https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32014L0035=EN#d1e32-370-1). 
So you may either create your own exhaustive risk analysis for your 
products, or claim compliance with the applicable product safety 
standard EN 62368-1, to demonstrate that your complete product does 
not present a risk and complies with the safety objectives of the LVD. 
If your products include a wireless interface or other radio function, 
it is in the scope of the RED which does not have a minimum voltage 
limit in Article 3, 1(a) 
(https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32014L0053=EN#d1e975-62-1). 
Therefore, for equipment powered by extra-low voltage the RED requires 
compliance with the safety objectives of the LVD and the applicable 
product safety standards.


Kind regards,

Bernd

*Von:*Scott Douglas <mailto:sdouglas...@gmail.com>>

*Gesendet:* Dienstag, 29. September 2020 22:52
*An:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
*Betreff:* [PSES] Low Voltage Products and EN 62368-1 and -3

Esteemed colleagues,

Question on EN 62368-1 and -3 related to low voltage products.

Products are ITE equipment with power requirement of 5v or 12v DC and 
less than 4 amps, sometimes they are powered by PoE. We ship some of 
these products with an external power supply 120/230 V~ input and 5 or 
12 VDC output. The EPS always have full certifications to normal 
safety standards including 62368-1. Other times we do not include an 
EPS with the product.


One of our factories is trying to tell us that under IEC/EN 62368-1 or 
-3, our products are required to have safety certifications, that 
having just the EPS certified to 62368-1 is not enough.


We have always said that since these are low voltage products (even 
the PoE ones) that safety certifications are not required for the 
products themselves.


Has something changed where these type products are now required to 
have safety approvals for the EU or US/Canada markets? Or since they 
are not directly connected to the AC Mains, they do not need safety 
approvals?


Looking for someone to either confirm my sanity or teach me a new 
lesson. All comments welcome.


Scott

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[PSES] Low Voltage Products and EN 62368-1 and -3

[Scott Douglas]

Esteemed colleagues,

Question on EN 62368-1 and -3 related to low voltage products.

Products are ITE equipment with power requirement of 5v or 12v DC and less
than 4 amps, sometimes they are powered by PoE. We ship some of these
products with an external power supply 120/230 V~ input and 5 or 12 VDC
output. The EPS always have full certifications to normal safety standards
including 62368-1. Other times we do not include an EPS with the product.

One of our factories is trying to tell us that under IEC/EN 62368-1 or -3,
our products are required to have safety certifications, that having just
the EPS certified to 62368-1 is not enough.

We have always said that since these are low voltage products (even the PoE
ones) that safety certifications are not required for the
products themselves.

Has something changed where these type products are now required to have
safety approvals for the EU or US/Canada markets? Or since they are not
directly connected to the AC Mains, they do not need safety approvals?

Looking for someone to either confirm my sanity or teach me a new lesson.
All comments welcome.

Scott

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This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
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[PSES] Excess Equipment Available

[Scott Douglas]

Fellow List Persons,

Our site is being down-sized into a smaller footprint office. As a result
we have some equipment that will no longer fit in our space.

I wanted to make it available to the members of this list before we have to
turn it over to Facilities and they send it to be recycled.

Here is what we have to offer:


   1. Thermotron Temperature / Humidity chamber, model SE-300-2.
   2. HP 8591A Spectrum Analyzer.
   3. Com-Power Biconical EMC antenna (model AB-900) and wooden tripod.


We are located in Petaluma, California (just north of San Francisco). You
will need to come and pick it up or pay for the shipping.

I realize these are older equipment, but last I used them they were all
still working ok.

The equipment is available first come, first served. No reasonable offer
will be refused. We need to arrange to move it before December 18th. Actual
move date can be a bit later if needed.

Please contact me off-list at scott.doug...@nortekcontrol.com with any
questions or offers.

Best regards,
Scott Douglas

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[PSES] Auto-Deletion of 558 Subscribers to EMC-PSTC

[Scott Douglas]

To all members,

Last night Listserv, following list rules, deleted 558 (of 632) subscribers
from the EMC-PSTC Email List. All subscribers haev been added back to the
list.

Since I only had email addresses to import back, 37 subscribers had their
first and last names changed to be empty fields. I apologize if you had
already re-subscribed this morning and now had your name information
deleted. But your email address is definitely there. If you want to enter
your name back in, please let me know and I can do that for you (if you
can't do it yourself).

The deletion happened because we have an auto-delete setting turned on in
our list management rule set. This was turned on years ago bcause we were
getting too many warnings and errors related to bounce messages and mail
loops. All of these had to be dealt with manually one at a time so the rule
was enabled.

Scott Douglas
List Admin

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Re: [PSES] KDB 896810

[Scott Douglas]

Derek,

Try here: *http://tinyurl.com/y8lgbzmy

*Scott

On 1/17/2019 5:47 PM, DEREK WALTON wrote:

Good day folks,

does anyone have a copy of this KDB they can forward please. I made the mistake 
of relying on the US government to host the information.

Thanks,

Derek.

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[PSES] Fwd: Permanent / Direct Hire Opportunity for Product Safety Engineers

[Scott Douglas]

Forwarded to the list at the request of the sender. Please reply 
directly to the originator and not to me.

Scott


 Forwarded Message 
Subject:Permanent / Direct Hire Opportunity for Product Safety Engineers
Date:   Mon, 12 Nov 2018 16:17:54 +
From:   Arvi Abellana 
To: sdouglas , mcantwell 



Good morning, gentlemen!

I am with Juno Group...we help candidates find employment/their dream 
job and companies find the ideal resource for their requirement.


We currently have multiple openings for Product Safety Engineers for a 
third-party testing laboratory and Jim Bacher, an IEEE Life Senior 
Member and regular presenter at IEEE symposiums said you may be able to 
help pass the opportunity and my contact information along to your 
members. Here's more information about the position:


   We are looking for*Product Safety Engineers*to conduct
   testing/evaluation and certify electrical and mechanical products.
   The position is available in three (3) locations:*Washington D.C.
   Metro - Damascus, MD; Greater Cleveland - Middlefield, OH; and
   Indianapolis, IN*.

   **

   *Duties:*

 * Utilize knowledge of electrical engineering to conduct safety
   and performance testing and evaluation of electrical and
   mechanical products including, but not limited to, medical
   devices, laboratory devices, industrial machinery and household
   appliances for commercial or governmental application
 * Use knowledge of electrical engineering to perform testing and
   certification using published safety standards such as UL, CSA,
   IEC, EN, FCC, CE, etc.
 * Create and implement test procedures and test plans
 * Prepare certification/test reports presenting findings and
   results of testing for submission to certifying bodies in the
   United States, Canada and Europe
 * Communicate with customer’s engineering staff regarding the
   project, including explanation of findings, status, requests for
   documentation
 * Report to Safety Technical Manager (bi-weekly)
 * Work in conjunction with other Electrical Engineers including
   Senior Safety Engineer, Senior Project Engineer and Safety Lab
   Coordinator
 * Review test report work that is prepared by other engineers
 * Participate in Continuing Education in the area of product
   safety standards and certification testing, as standards are
   revised from time to time, in-house and outside training venues


   *Requirements:*

 * Education - BS Electrical Engineering
 * Electrical Engineer - must have background in
   Testing/Evaluating/Certifying electrical (and mechanical) products
 * Product Safety - 2+ years experience performing Safety
   Evaluations to Regulatory Standards

And assistance would be highly appreciated. Thank you so much in advance 
and I wish you both a great week ahead!


All the best,



*Arvi Abellana*

*Juno Group, Inc.*

Phone: (303) 502-5573 | Fax: (877) 752-4131

a...@junogroup.net <mailto:a...@junogroup.net> | Juno Hot Jobs 
<http://track.junogroup.net/y.z?l=https%3a%2f%2fcareers.junogroup.net%2frecruit%2fPortal.na=11774957075=23891=1=h>


Connect with me on LinkedIn 
<http://track.junogroup.net/y.z?l=https%3a%2f%2fwww.linkedin.com%2fin%2farviabellana%2f=11774957075=23891=1=h>




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Re: [PSES] Does incorporated barcode scanner result in a new laser product?

[Scott Douglas]

Lauren,

My question is - is the laser scanner permanently attached/connected 
(built-in) to the larger product? If it is, then the combination is 
probably a new product. But if all you do is connect a hand held 
scanner, for example, and that connection is detachable (USB or RS-232 
or some such connector) then I submit the laser scanner is stand-alone 
and no further laser product is created. Would not even need to be a 
hand-help scanner either. A desk top  scanner that is user unpluggable 
is still a separate stand-alone product with its own certifications.


Regards,
Scott



On 10/8/2018 1:03 PM, Lauren Crane wrote:


I’ve gotten some direct replies such that I think some additional 
perspective might be helpful.


Correct application of the US laser regs requires some significant 
attention to fine points. Particularly in light of certified* laser 
products available ‘off the shelf’ that are incorporated into another 
product to form a new laser product. In addition to the laser 
‘standard’ (21CFR1040.10/11) there have been many Laser Notices 
published by FDA/CDRH that provide what are effectively exemptions 
(scenarios to which they “will not object”). There are particularly 
many reliefs for inherently Class I laser products (which may contain 
higher classes of embedded lasers) which are themselves then embedded 
in another product. Consider the Class III laser in a Class I DVD 
drive incorporated into a computer – (which itself is interpreted as 
an non-classified laser product, but not completely out of scope since 
some of the administrative obligations remain).


So the case I am puzzling over is an appropriately certified* Class II 
laser product (the scanner), essentially being bundled with an 
industrial machine, but otherwise not modified. As I’ve said, my first 
reaction is that a new laser product is being manufactured…. But 
perhaps there are some, for example, laser notice fine points I am not 
recalling.


*certified in this context means self-declared as compliant to the US 
Federal Laser ‘Standard’… it is not related to any sort of electrical 
safety certifications.


So if anyone has walked this road before, thanks in advance for 
thoughts and guidance, particularly if you think I’ve got it wrong.


Regards,

Lauren Crane

Tokyo Electron

*From:* Nyffenegger, Dave 
*Sent:* Monday, October 08, 2018 12:08 PM
*To:* TEH EHS Crane, Lauren ; 
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
*Subject:* RE: Does incorporated barcode scanner result in a new laser 
product?


Yes, I think it’s an appropriate question for this forum.

We’ve followed the CDRH requirements for our products containing class 
IV lasers.  But now that you raise the question we’ve not followed the 
CDRH requirements for our products that contain only Class I and II 
lasers and after a quick scan of 21 CFR 1040.10 it appears we should be.


-Dave

*From:*Lauren Crane [mailto:lauren.cr...@us.tel.com]
*Sent:* Monday, October 08, 2018 11:49 AM
*To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
*Subject:* [PSES] Does incorporated barcode scanner result in a new 
laser product?


I’m not sure this is the correct forum for this question….

Does incorporating a barcode scanner (that happens to be a class II 
laser product) into a piece of industrial machinery (e.g., for the 
purpose of reading identification tags on work pieces) that otherwise 
does not contain a laser result in a new, reportable laser product 
under US CDRH requirements?


I’m leaning towards ‘yes’, but I cannot find much guidance on the issue.

Regards,

Lauren Crane

Tokyo Electron

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Re: [PSES] Messages Not Getting Through

[Scott Douglas]

Thanks everyone for the replies. Funny the list did not echo my messages
back to me.

Test concluded.


On Mon, Aug 6, 2018, 8:16 PM Scott Aldous  wrote:

> I got at least 2 of them, including this one.
>
> On Mon, Aug 6, 2018 at 8:10 PM Scott Douglas 
> wrote:
>
>> This is my third attempt at getting a message through to the list.
>> -
>> 
>>
>> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
>> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
>> emc-p...@ieee.org
>>
>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
>> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
>>
>> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site
>> at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
>> well-used formats), large files, etc.
>>
>> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
>> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
>> unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html>
>> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
>>
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>> Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org
>>
>> For policy questions, send mail to:
>> Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org
>> David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Program Manager |
> scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994
>
>

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[PSES] Messages Not Getting Through

[Scott Douglas]

This is my third attempt at getting a message through to the list.

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[PSES] Test Message - Please disregard

[Scott Douglas]

Just a test message to see if anyone is still awake out there in list 
land. Okay, go back to sleep now.


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[PSES] Test Message - Please disregard

[Scott Douglas]

Just a test message to see if anyone is still awake out there in list 
land. Okay, go back to sleep now.


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Re: [PSES] Neat Funny Stories regarding EMI

[Scott Douglas]

Hi Charles,

My story is somewhat similar. When I was a young lad living in Wisconsin 
I got hooked on CB radio (before the Hey Good Buddy craze ruined it). I 
had a 5 channel Johnson Messenger I with a whole 5 watts output and a 
1/4 wave dipole on the garage roof. Not satisfied with talking to the 
locals, I bought a 1 kW linear amp for it. Very early one Sunday morning 
I was talking skip to some guys in Louisiana. Apparently it woke up the 
neighbors across the street. The father came over complained to my 
mother. Asked what he was talking about, he explained that they could 
hear me on their console stereo/record player in their living room. And 
it was turned off! I was booming into their living room loud enough to 
get them out of bed. And telling tall stories about something or other. 
Don't recall the details of my skip talk but surely still remember my 
first encounter with EMI. Been playing at EMI ever since.


Scott


On 3/23/2018 5:12 PM, Pat Lawler wrote:

Hi Charles,

One Sunday when my dad was young & attending church with his family, 
he heard a ragged voice came over the church PA (public address) 
system saying something to the effect of "Car 54, where are you?"  
Without breaking a beat, the pastor said "That may be the voice of 
God, but I sincerely doubt it."


--

All,

I want to take a moment to thank the members of the listserver for the 
questions and responses given. Although I rarely post, I've been 
following this mailing list for almost 20 years.  It's always been an 
interesting mix of practical, theoretical, and legal/political 
issues.  My EMC learning curve has been accelerated greatly.  
Participation in the listserver should get you 'Continuing Education' 
credits.  ;)


Thanks,
Pat

On Mar 23, 2018 7:54 AM, "Grasso, Charles" <charles.gra...@dish.com 
<mailto:charles.gra...@dish.com>> wrote:


Hi all,

I am writing a column internal to my company about the topic
of EM emissions.  Considering the topic(!) I would like to
add some humor to keep the reader engaged.

I would be grateful if any of you that have humerous stories
related to EMI that you would share them with me!

Thanks

Charles Grasso

(w) 303-706-5467 <tel:%28303%29%20706-5467>

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All 

Re: [PSES] CE Marking HDMI Cables

[Scott Douglas]

Ted,

I sent the the RoHS FAQ and they agree the cables need to be RoHS. They 
resist CE Marking because the cables have UL approvals for use inside 
walls (read flammability). They claim there are "matching" safety 
requirements in the EU and these were not tested for. So they cannot 
apply the CE Mark. I contend that those "matching" EU safety 
requirements are not CE Marking requirements so do not apply.


Is anyone aware of any CE Marking requirements for cables used inside 
walls? Possibly under Construction Products or General Safety?


Thanks again for all comments.

Scott


On 1/4/2018 6:55 PM, Ted Eckert wrote:


Hello Scott,

There are U.S. and Canadian national differences to many safety 
standards that mandates flame resistance for cables such as this. 
Cables under 3.05 meter in length must be VW-1 or FT-1 or better in 
flame rating. (Longer cables are subject to stricter requirements.) 
This is why you can find UL approvals on cables, but not necessarily 
other international safety certifications for HDMI, USB and other data 
cables. The LVD would not apply to an HDMI cable sold on its own as it 
is below the lower voltage limit of the scope.


Generally, if the cable is bundled with a product, the cable does not 
need the CE marking. If the cable is sold on its own, the CE mark is 
required for RoHS. See pages 15 and 16 in the European Commission 
guidance document.


http://ec.europa.eu/environment/waste/rohs_eee/pdf/faq.pdf

Ted Eckert

Microsoft Corporation

The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those 
of my employer.


*From:*Scott Douglas [mailto:sdouglas...@gmail.com]
*Sent:* Thursday, January 4, 2018 6:42 PM
*To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
*Subject:* Re: [PSES] CE Marking HDMI Cables

My opinion is only the RoHS Directive should apply. But my last email 
from the ODM tonight says the cables have UL Approvals too, on the 
cable, on the connector and then flammability on the assembly. So they 
think that there must be some safety directive that applies (and was 
not tested for). They are checking with their factory (again).


On 1/4/2018 6:27 PM, Brent DeWitt wrote:

Hi Scott,

Which Directives do you think should apply?

*From:* Scott Douglas [mailto:sdouglas...@gmail.com]
*Sent:* Thursday, January 04, 2018 7:00 PM
*To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
*Subject:* [PSES] CE Marking HDMI Cables

I am going around with an ODM making a HDMI cable for us. Standard
cable just has our brand logo molded in the connector shell. Cable
is to be used with Category 4 (ITE) Equipment and is sold separately.

The question is CE Marked or not CE Marked. I say it must be CE
Marked and they say not required. I have been through the
directives and FAQ more than a few times and it seems black and
white to me.

They say they talked to three different compliance labs, at least
one of which is familiar to a lot of us on the west coast, and all
say not required. They say their compliance engineers all went to
the required training and they all say not required.

Am I the only one that thinks these HDMI cables need to be CE
Marked? Or am I missing something? Like maybe not required today
but required to be marked at some future date like 2019 maybe?

Last, assuming I am not on some good psychedelics and CE Marking
is required on or for HDMI cables, can I get away with putting the
CE Mark on the single unit package, like a label on the poly bag
it is sealed in?

I thank everybody that helps answer the question and keeps me from
consuming more of those pink pills.

Happy New Year to all.

Scott

-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities
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can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/

<ht

Re: [PSES] CE Marking HDMI Cables

[Scott Douglas]

My opinion is only the RoHS Directive should apply. But my last email 
from the ODM tonight says the cables have UL Approvals too, on the 
cable, on the connector and then flammability on the assembly. So they 
think that there must be some safety directive that applies (and was not 
tested for). They are checking with their factory (again).


On 1/4/2018 6:27 PM, Brent DeWitt wrote:


Hi Scott,

Which Directives do you think should apply?

*From:* Scott Douglas [mailto:sdouglas...@gmail.com]
*Sent:* Thursday, January 04, 2018 7:00 PM
*To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
*Subject:* [PSES] CE Marking HDMI Cables

I am going around with an ODM making a HDMI cable for us. Standard 
cable just has our brand logo molded in the connector shell. Cable is 
to be used with Category 4 (ITE) Equipment and is sold separately.


The question is CE Marked or not CE Marked. I say it must be CE Marked 
and they say not required. I have been through the directives and FAQ 
more than a few times and it seems black and white to me.


They say they talked to three different compliance labs, at least one 
of which is familiar to a lot of us on the west coast, and all say not 
required. They say their compliance engineers all went to the required 
training and they all say not required.


Am I the only one that thinks these HDMI cables need to be CE Marked? 
Or am I missing something? Like maybe not required today but required 
to be marked at some future date like 2019 maybe?


Last, assuming I am not on some good psychedelics and CE Marking is 
required on or for HDMI cables, can I get away with putting the CE 
Mark on the single unit package, like a label on the poly bag it is 
sealed in?


I thank everybody that helps answer the question and keeps me from 
consuming more of those pink pills.


Happy New Year to all.

Scott

-


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emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your 
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities 
site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for 
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-

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[PSES] CE Marking HDMI Cables

[Scott Douglas]

I am going around with an ODM making a HDMI cable for us. Standard cable
just has our brand logo molded in the connector shell. Cable is to be used
with Category 4 (ITE) Equipment and is sold separately.

The question is CE Marked or not CE Marked. I say it must be CE Marked and
they say not required. I have been through the directives and FAQ more than
a few times and it seems black and white to me.

They say they talked to three different compliance labs, at least one of
which is familiar to a lot of us on the west coast, and all say not
required. They say their compliance engineers all went to the required
training and they all say not required.


Am I the only one that thinks these HDMI cables need to be CE Marked? Or am
I missing something? Like maybe not required today but required to be
marked at some future date like 2019 maybe?

Last, assuming I am not on some good psychedelics and CE Marking is
required on or for HDMI cables, can I get away with putting the CE Mark on
the single unit package, like a label on the poly bag it is sealed in?

I thank everybody that helps answer the question and keeps me from
consuming more of those pink pills.

Happy New Year to all.
Scott

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
<emc-p...@ieee.org>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

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David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>

Re: [PSES] Marking on Remote Controls

[Scott Douglas]

Received only a few replies to this question, but thank you to those 
that did respond. I am inclined to agree with JW and put just the CE 
Mark and Wheelie Bin on the remote and leave off everything else.



On 9/23/2017 3:02 PM, John Woodgate wrote:


I agree; remote control units are seldom extensively marked. Annex F 
of IEC/EN 62368-1 is very comprehensive but silent on this subject. 
Safety marking is probably not required in Europe because the voltage 
is too low for the LVD to apply, But the CE mark (for EMCD and RoHS) 
and the recycling bin mark appear to be necessary.


With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only

www.jmwa.demon.co.uk <http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk/> J M Woodgate and 
Associates Rayleigh England


UK is a sovereignty, not a Zollverein-ty

*From:*Scott Douglas [mailto:sdouglas...@gmail.com]
*Sent:* Thursday, September 21, 2017 11:00 PM
*To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
*Subject:* [PSES] Marking on Remote Controls

Hi All,

We have a dilemma. We are making a new high-end remote control similar 
to those used with your TV or cable box or DVR, etc. I am asked what 
compliance markings are required to be on the outside of the remote 
control. The case is textured a bit and pad printing will be 
problematic. Thinking the usual ITE kind of stuff I said the model 
name, FCC and IC ID, company name, address, CE Mark, wheelie bin, and 
so on.


But I just surveyed 8 or 10 remotes in our PV lab from the big names 
in TV's and blue-ray players, etc. The markings ran the gamut from 
nothing to company name and model number, just a wheelie bin, one had 
a CE mark and wheelie bin. None had FCC orIC ID's, none had safety 
agency logos, and none had sticky labels with this kind of info.


We are willing to put all of this in a manual or paper insert in 
the box if necessary. But what can we legally get away without 
printing on the remote?


Looking forward to the interesting replies from this august body. And 
many thanks in advance for your comments.


Scott

-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society 
emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your 
e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org <mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>


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http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html


Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities 
site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for 
graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.


Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
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For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>>
David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com <mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>>




-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion 
list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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Re: [PSES] Marking on Remote Controls

[Scott Douglas]

We don't consider it an accessory. We don't ship it inside any product 
packaging, It is boxed separately and sold either separately, or with 
other products on a larger order.



On 9/22/2017 11:13 AM, Nyffenegger, Dave wrote:


If the remote is an accessory to the primary product I’d think the 
certification labeling would be on the primary product and not needed 
on the accessory.


-Dave

*From:*Scott Douglas [mailto:sdouglas...@gmail.com]
*Sent:* Thursday, September 21, 2017 6:25 PM
*To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
*Subject:* Re: [PSES] Marking on Remote Controls

We are located in the US but market primarily in the US, Canada, EU, 
Australia, New Zealand. We sell in other countries too, but those 
listed here are the main concern.


I did lift battery covers. Most only had information about the 
batteries (after removing them). One or two had what I call full 
compliance labels under the battery cover. But our remote has a very 
small battery cover and no place for any markings at all.


On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 3:05 PM, Michael Derby <micha...@acbcert.com 
<mailto:micha...@acbcert.com>> wrote:


Hi Scott,

Did you try removing the battery cover, taking the batteries out, and 
looking for a label under the batteries?


That would be a ‘permanent’ part of the product (the battery cover 
itself would not), and as long as the remote control is shipped 
without the batteries in it, then it’s ok to have the label in there.


Also, where are you?   For example, if you’re in the USA, it’s 
possible the manufacturer chose not to include the IC number, CE Mark, 
etc.


(We’re assuming it uses RF communication, not infra-red, of course)

Michael.

*From:*Scott Douglas [mailto:sdouglas...@gmail.com 
<mailto:sdouglas...@gmail.com>]

*Sent:* 21 September 2017 23:00
*To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
*Subject:* [PSES] Marking on Remote Controls

Hi All,

We have a dilemma. We are making a new high-end remote control similar 
to those used with your TV or cable box or DVR, etc. I am asked what 
compliance markings are required to be on the outside of the remote 
control. The case is textured a bit and pad printing will be 
problematic. Thinking the usual ITE kind of stuff I said the model 
name, FCC and IC ID, company name, address, CE Mark, wheelie bin, and 
so on.


But I just surveyed 8 or 10 remotes in our PV lab from the big names 
in TV's and blue-ray players, etc. The markings ran the gamut from 
nothing to company name and model number, just a wheelie bin, one had 
a CE mark and wheelie bin. None had FCC orIC ID's, none had safety 
agency logos, and none had sticky labels with this kind of info.


We are willing to put all of this in a manual or paper insert in 
the box if necessary. But what can we legally get away without 
printing on the remote?


Looking forward to the interesting replies from this august body. And 
many thanks in advance for your comments.


Scott

-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society 
emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your 
e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org <mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html


Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities 
site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for 
graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.


Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ <http://www.ieee-pses.org/>
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
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List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
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For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>>
David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com <mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>>

-


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All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
<http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html>


Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities 
site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
<http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/> can be used for graphics (in 
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Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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unsubscribe)

List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrat

Re: [PSES] Marking on Remote Controls

[Scott Douglas]

We are located in the US but market primarily in the US, Canada, EU,
Australia, New Zealand. We sell in other countries too, but those listed
here are the main concern.

I did lift battery covers. Most only had information about the batteries
(after removing them). One or two had what I call full compliance labels
under the battery cover. But our remote has a very small battery cover and
no place for any markings at all.

On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 3:05 PM, Michael Derby <micha...@acbcert.com> wrote:

> Hi Scott,
>
>
>
> Did you try removing the battery cover, taking the batteries out, and
> looking for a label under the batteries?
>
>
>
> That would be a ‘permanent’ part of the product (the battery cover itself
> would not), and as long as the remote control is shipped without the
> batteries in it, then it’s ok to have the label in there.
>
>
>
> Also, where are you?   For example, if you’re in the USA, it’s possible
> the manufacturer chose not to include the IC number, CE Mark, etc.
>
>
>
> (We’re assuming it uses RF communication, not infra-red, of course)
>
>
>
>
>
> Michael.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Scott Douglas [mailto:sdouglas...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* 21 September 2017 23:00
> *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> *Subject:* [PSES] Marking on Remote Controls
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
>
>
> We have a dilemma. We are making a new high-end remote control similar to
> those used with your TV or cable box or DVR, etc. I am asked what
> compliance markings are required to be on the outside of the remote
> control. The case is textured a bit and pad printing will be problematic.
> Thinking the usual ITE kind of stuff I said the model name, FCC and IC ID,
> company name, address, CE Mark, wheelie bin, and so on.
>
>
>
> But I just surveyed 8 or 10 remotes in our PV lab from the big names in
> TV's and blue-ray players, etc. The markings ran the gamut from nothing to
> company name and model number, just a wheelie bin, one had a CE mark and
> wheelie bin. None had FCC orIC ID's, none had safety agency logos, and none
> had sticky labels with this kind of info.
>
>
>
> We are willing to put all of this in a manual or paper insert in the box
> if necessary. But what can we legally get away without printing on the
> remote?
>
>
>
> Looking forward to the interesting replies from this august body. And many
> thanks in advance for your comments.
>
>
>
> Scott
>
>
>
> -
> 
>
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <
> emc-p...@ieee.org>
>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
>
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
>
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
> unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html>
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
>
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org>
> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org>
>
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org>
> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com>
>

-

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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
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Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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[PSES] Marking on Remote Controls

[Scott Douglas]

Hi All,

We have a dilemma. We are making a new high-end remote control similar to
those used with your TV or cable box or DVR, etc. I am asked what
compliance markings are required to be on the outside of the remote
control. The case is textured a bit and pad printing will be problematic.
Thinking the usual ITE kind of stuff I said the model name, FCC and IC ID,
company name, address, CE Mark, wheelie bin, and so on.

But I just surveyed 8 or 10 remotes in our PV lab from the big names in
TV's and blue-ray players, etc. The markings ran the gamut from nothing to
company name and model number, just a wheelie bin, one had a CE mark and
wheelie bin. None had FCC orIC ID's, none had safety agency logos, and none
had sticky labels with this kind of info.

We are willing to put all of this in a manual or paper insert in the box if
necessary. But what can we legally get away without printing on the remote?

Looking forward to the interesting replies from this august body. And many
thanks in advance for your comments.

Scott

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
<emc-p...@ieee.org>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
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Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
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[PSES] Job Opening for an International RF Regulatory Engineer.

[Scott Douglas]

Forwarding for Mark Luksich at gogo...

gogo Commercial Aviation has a job opening for an International RF 
Regulatory Engineer.


*Key Responsibilities:*

 * Working with regulatory and/or legal staff, analyze rules and
   regulations to determine technical compliance requirements for
   licensing Gogo networks in both domestic and international jurisdictions
 * Work cooperatively with National regulatory bodies world-wide to
   ensure that Gogo services comply with any local, national or
   regional regulations based on an understanding of technical
   requirements.
 * Manage the accurate and complete preparation and submission of any
   regulatory reporting’s or filings related to the technical aspects
   of Gogo service worldwide.
 * Interface with regulatory authorities to clarify and/or negotiate
   regulatory compliance requirements
 * Coordinate development of Gogo technical documentation required to
   support regulatory processes.

*Qualifications:*

 * Bachelor’s degree in engineering or related technical performance
   experience.
 * A minimum of 7-10 years of relevant experience in global RF approvals.
 * Knowledge of EU, China, Japan, Brazil, and Mexico - RF/EMC/Safety
   regulations pertinent to Gogo, including WLAN and satellite
   telecommunications certification, testing and approvals.
 * Knowledge of FCC rules and regulations pertinent to Gogo, including
   Parts 15, 22 and 25
 * Demonstrated Project Management skills

For more details, or to apply, please see http://jobs.jobvite.com/gogo/jobs

Best Regards,
-David Heald

-

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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
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Re: [PSES] [Commercial] [PSES] Labeling - battery operated products

[Scott Douglas]

Not every product with lithium batteries requires these labels. Some 
battery types are exempt. For example, a product with one or two CR2032 
type button cells would be exempt regardless whether the batteries are 
installed in the product or packed (properly) separately in the product 
package. It all depends on the battery type, size, content, and quantity.


Some airlines are refusing any product with a lithium battery, 
regardless if exempt or not.  So best is talk with your shipping carrier 
and have them guide you. Tell them what you need to ship, how many, how 
packed, what method (air, ground, water). They can be very helpful.


And yes, these labels are aimed directly at the carriers, mostly air, 
but also ground so on the transportation packaging  as mentioned in 
another post.


Scott


On 9/8/2017 5:35 AM, Schmidt, Mark wrote:


This is mandatory for any shipment of lithium Ion batteries. If UPS, 
USPS, DHL, Fedex or any other shipping company was aware that your 
product has li-on Batteries in it they would not accept it until all 
the necessary labeling and paperwork was properly completed. All these 
previously mentioned companies have links on their websites to assist 
you in labeling correctly. There are different procedures for 
batteries shipped in a product or outside a product (such as a spare 
battery or battery pack). Not to mention the fact yet another 
procedure if you are just shipping batteries to a distributor or 
another office or branch of your company. This is not easily done and 
very complicated, I am not an expert talk to your shipping company.


Mark

*From:*Amund Westin [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no]
*Sent:* Friday, September 08, 2017 12:35 AM
*To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
*Subject:* [Commercial] [PSES] Labeling - battery operated products

At least for CE marking purposes, there are no requirements for any 
battery related information on the product label.


But then I came into this web-site / document:

http://www.iata.org/whatwedo/cargo/dgr/Documents/lithium-battery-guidance-document-2017-en.pdf 
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.iata.org_whatwedo_cargo_dgr_Documents_lithium-2Dbattery-2Dguidance-2Ddocument-2D2017-2Den.pdf=DwMFaQ=9mghv0deYPYDGP-W745IEdQLV1kHpn4XJRvR6xMRXtA=RsvNGGiEXp8Wa3AN0R9oJL3JV5vFvlTsmxQpMmBLBIw=xcQgfyviA_BjuqZY1XT9nT6SwuFq4KAgP0pK1FChq68=KPw4EYyrY--AyfiOK0e35w-F9ir9E9RpL6HU7rJFJnk=>


Should a product (with batteries incorporated) have such battery 
information on its label or is this IATA requirements only for 
shipment packages?


Any IATA specialists here?

BR
Amund

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Re: [PSES] EN 55020

[Scott Douglas]

Same goes for EN 55013!

It is also missing from the Harmonized Standards lists!

Scott


On May 15, 2017 11:47 AM, "Sundstrom, Mike" <mike.sundst...@garmin.com>
wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> It has been suggested to me that EN 55020 is withdrawn.
>
> I have searched the standards of these directives:
>
> 2014/53/EU  RE_D
>
> 2014/30/EU  EMC
>
> 2014/35/EU  LVD
>
> and I cannot find it listed so does this mean it is gone?
>
>
>
> Thanks for any and all help,
>
>
>
> Michael Sundstrom
>
> Garmin Compliance Engineer
>
> 2-2606
>
> (913) 440-1540
>
> KB5UKT
>
>
>
> *“Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to
> accomplish it.*
>
> *The time will pass anyway.”*
>
> Earl Nightingale
>
>
>
> --
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any attachments are for the sole
> use of the intended recipient(s) and contain information that may be Garmin
> confidential and/or Garmin legally privileged. If you have received this
> email in error, please notify the sender by reply email and delete the
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> 
>
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[PSES] EU Certifications Required for Surge PRotectors?

[Scott Douglas]

Hello All,

We have three products that we sell in USA. We are looking at getting these
approved for sale in the EU. Our famous certification house says they do
not create CB Reports for this kind of product. We are unfamiliar with any
type of standards in the ROW for these products.

So, we are looking to find out what standards would apply, either EU-wide,
or are there specific country requirements for these kinds of products?

Here is a brief explanation of the three products:

1.   POTS telephone surge protector.  The current model is a passive
device with a pair of RJ-11 jacks for telephone in & out and a ground wire
terminal.  Listed by UL to UL497A, Standard for Protectors for
Communication Circuits.

2.   CATV/Antenna surge protector.  The current model is a passive
device with a pair of F-connectors and a ground wire terminal. Listed by UL
to UL497B, Standard for Protectors for Data Communications and Fire Alarm
Circuits

3.   LAN / Ethernet surge protector.  The current model is a passive
device with a pair of RJ-45 jacks for Ethernet (CAT5) in & out and a ground
wire terminal.  Listed by UL to UL497B.

These are all passive devices, no power supply required.

We are in California and would appreciate any comments related to what EU
standards would apply and what test houses might be a good choice to
getting these approvals.

Your comments and advice will be well appreciated.

Thank you.

Scott

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[PSES] Test Message - Please Disregard

[Scott Douglas]

Test Message - Please Disregard

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Re: [PSES] IEEE PSES email distribution

[Scott Douglas]

My apologies to Dave and the List for letting this administrative 
message escape into the wild. Funny thing is, I never got a copy of that 
message from Listserv either. Somefin' fishy goin' on here.



On 9/28/2016 11:48 PM, ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen wrote:

This happens all the time..
I find myself often reading under the pagefold to
find out what the original question was.

This very mail is an example, unless it was intended to  ;<)

As Jim wrote

The best and fastest responses will be on this email list

The responses arrive even before the question


Regards,

Ing. Gert Gremmen
Approvals manager



+ ce marking of electrical/electronic equipment
+ Independent Consultancy Services
+ Compliance Testing and Design for CE marking
  according to EC-directives:
 - Electro Magnetic Compatibility 2004/108/EC
 - Electrical Safety 2006/95/EC
 - Medical Devices 93/42/EC
 - Radio & Telecommunication Terminal Equipment 99/5/EC
+ Improvement of Product Quality and Reliability testing
+ Education

Web:www.cetest.nl (English)
Phone :  +31 10 415 24 26
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please notify the sender either by telephone or by e-mail and
delete the material from any computer.
Thank you for your co-operation.

From: Scott Douglas [mailto:sdouglas...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday 29 September 2016 04:04
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] IEEE PSES email distribution

Hi Dave,
Not sure why that is happening. Quite possibly your ISP is blocking them 
somehow?  I checked your list subscription and find no problems there. Your 
subscription is set Regular (meaning full emails sent individually), And you 
are set to receive a copy of your own postings. And there are no restrictions.
I am going to change you from getting copy of your own postings to getting a 
short message confirming receipt. If you send to the list and you receive this 
acknowledgment, then I will change you back to receiving a copy of your 
postings. Maybe that might jog Listserv's memory and start sending the as it 
should do. Let me know when yo get the notification from Listserv. Then try a 
test post to the list and see if you get the ACK.
Let me know how it goes.
Scott
On 9/28/2016 7:32 AM, Nyffenegger, Dave wrote:
Scott,  it used to be I would receive a copy of any email I sent to the forum 
address (EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG) but that stopped several months ago..  I 
receive posts from others but never a copy of a post I send to the group (and 
of course nothing in SPAM or JUNK) since it stopped.  Is something broken for 
me or was there a change made to not send copies of email to the originator?
  
Thanks

-Dave
  
David P. Nyffenegger, PMP, SM-IEEE

Product Development Manager
Bell and Howell
3791 South Alston Avenue
Durham, NC 27713
Phone: 919.767.6419
Web: www.bellhowell.net
  


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list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.

Re: [PSES] IEEE PSES email distribution

[Scott Douglas]

Hi Dave,

Not sure why that is happening. Quite possibly your ISP is blocking them 
somehow?  I checked your list subscription and find no problems there. 
Your subscription is set Regular (meaning full emails sent 
individually), And you are set to receive a copy of your own postings. 
And there are no restrictions.


I am going to change you from getting copy of your own postings to 
getting a short message confirming receipt. If you send to the list and 
you receive this acknowledgment, then I will change you back to 
receiving a copy of your postings. Maybe that might jog Listserv's 
memory and start sending the as it should do. Let me know when yo get 
the notification from Listserv. Then try a test post to the list and see 
if you get the ACK.


Let me know how it goes.

Scott

On 9/28/2016 7:32 AM, Nyffenegger, Dave wrote:


Scott,  it used to be I would receive a copy of any email I sent to 
the forum address (EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG) but that stopped 
several months ago..  I receive posts from others but never a copy of 
a post I send to the group (and of course nothing in SPAM or JUNK) 
since it stopped.  Is something broken for me or was there a change 
made to not send copies of email to the originator?


Thanks

-Dave

*David P. Nyffenegger, PMP, SM-IEEE
*Product Development Manager

Bell and Howell
3791 South Alston Avenue

Durham, NC 27713

Phone: 919.767.6419
Web: www.bellhowell.net <http://www.bellhowell.net/>




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Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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Re: [PSES] Safety requirements in US

[Scott Douglas]

 24, 2016 8:26 PM
> *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> *Subject:* Re: [PSES] Safety requirements in US
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Scott:
>
>
>
> For consumer and household products, compliance with CPSC requirements is
> required.
>
>
>
> No.  Only products considered “substantial product hazards” such as hair
> dryers need comply with CPSC requirements.  However, any consumer product
> that injures someone is subject to CPSC recall order.
>
>
>
> What about OSHA?
>
>
>
> Electrical products that are used by employees are required to be NRTL
> certified.
>
>
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Rich
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> 
>
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <
> emc-p...@ieee.org>
>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
>
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
>
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
> unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html>
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
>
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org>
> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org>
>
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org>
> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com>
>
> -
> 
>
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <
> emc-p...@ieee.org>
>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
>
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
>
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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> unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html>
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>
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>
> -
> 
>
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <
> emc-p...@ieee.org>
>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
>
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
>
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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>
> -
> 
>
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> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <
> emc-p...@ieee.org>
>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
>
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
>
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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>
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Re: [PSES] NEC 2017

[Scott Douglas]

ay or may not be currently
> acceptable.
>
>
>
> Now that the 2017 NEC specifies NRTL, it will be interesting to see how
> the local and state AHJs accept specific NRTLs, or NRTLs by standards (as
> does OSHA), or blanket all NRTLs.  Note that AHJs have different objectives
> than OSHA, who runs the NRTL program.
>
>
>
>
>
> Rich
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> 
>
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> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> emc-p...@ieee.org
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>
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>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> Douglas E Powell
>
> doug...@gmail.com
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01
>
> -
> 
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Re: [PSES] Safety requirements in US

[Scott Douglas]

And not to confuse the issue even more, but then there is the N.E.S.C. - 
National Electrical Safety Code (or nowadays ANSI Standard C2) published 
by IEEE. Adopted in most states in some fashion, except for California 
which does its own thing. I think this one is primarily aimed at 
utilities though. Dates back to 1913.



On 7/25/2016 6:34 PM, Brian O'Connell wrote:


Correct, National Electric Code is pro forma NFPA70, or at least per 
administrative laws of each U.S. state.



But the reader should understand that there are state and municipal 
regulations that also specifically and formally refer to NFPA79 and 
NFPA99 as national building codes.



And the NFPA itself refers to 99 as a national 'Code'.


The scope of the thread was OSHA per the NEC and associated test 
standards, where my premise is that 'code' and standards evolve and 
are contrived via various circular references.



And Mr. Nute pointed to the problem of the various NEC versions 
enacted locally (most, but not all, have adopted 2014) vs the 
referenced product safety standard that would be used to verify 
compliance by the AHJ. And the OSHA cannot affect any force for an 
organizing change as their statue scopes only workplace safety.



Brian




*From:* msherma...@comcast.net <msherma...@comcast.net>
*Sent:* Monday, July 25, 2016 6:02 PM
*To:* Brian O'Connell; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
*Subject:* Re: [PSES] Safety requirements in US
NEC is specifically NFPA 70, otherwise known as the National 
Electrical Code.


Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App


-- Original Message --

*From: *Brian O'Connell
*To: *EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
*Sent: *July 25, 2016 at 7:26 PM
*Subject: *Re: [PSES] Safety requirements in US

By 'NEC", will assume that the reference is something like NFPA70
or 79. There are, as we all know, many other elements of NFPA
construction requirements . NFPAs can reference ANSI, IEC, NEMA,
ASME, IEEE, and other standards; and many ANSI, NEMA, and IEEE
standards reference one or more NFPA elements in the scope
statements. So the references are intended to be circular.


Brian


*From:* Richard Nute <ri...@ieee.org>
*Sent:* Monday, July 25, 2016 2:15:11 PM
*To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
*Subject:* Re: [PSES] Safety requirements in US

“Each NRTL has a scope of test standards that they are recognized
for…”

https://www.osha.gov/dts/otpca/nrtl/

Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratories (NRTLs)
<https://www.osha.gov/dts/otpca/nrtl/>
www.osha.gov
OSHA's Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory (NRTL) Program.
Recognizes private sector organizations to perform certification
for certain products to ensure that ...


NRTL certification for OSHA purposes is limited to its scope of
test standards.  Check out your favorite NRTL for its OSHA test
standards.

We don’t yet know whether the NEC is limited to the OSHA NRTL
scope test standards or is open to all test standards the NRTL
certifies products to. (Awful English, but understandable.)

And, we don’t yet know whether the locally-adopted NEC will be the
OSHA NRTL scope test standards or will be open to all test
standards the NRTL certifies products to.

Rich



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[PSES] ErP Test Reports

[Scott Douglas]

Fellow List Persons,

I have been telling our suppliers that we need to have 3rd party test
reports to show compliance with energy efficiency requirements (ErP). One
is pushing back now saying they only do internal testing. I have been
searching for where it is written that test reports must be from 3rd party
labs, but cannot seem to find it today. I am sure I read it once and kept a
copy, but don't recall where I read it or where I filed it. So, was I
dreaming or is it really written? And would someone please send the
reference, or at least tell me what entity makes that requirement?

Thank you in advance for your always helpful replies.

Scott

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[PSES] Not Our Area Question

[Scott Douglas]

I know this is not the RoHS forum, but I am having trouble with a simple
question and hope someone here can point me in the right direction. Have
not been able to get a clear reading from "RoHS" web sites.

We make ITE/AV equipment, category 3 and 4 in RoHS Directive Annex I.

At what date must our product be compliant with RoHS 2.0 ( the added 4
substances restrictions)? I say immediately on publication of the first
country legislation implementing Directive (EU) 2015/863 or 31 December
2016. One of our factories is arguing that the additional 4 substance
restrictions do not apply to our products until 22 July 2019.

Which of us is correct? (If you feel generous, please cite page, paragraph,
rule where you base your comment on.)

Thank you one and all for your comments.

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[PSES] Plenum Rated Speakers in the EU and Canada

[Scott Douglas]

Fellow List Persons,

Given audio speakers Listed to the following standards to be used in
plenum, air handling, commercial spaces:



UL 2043Standard for Fire Test for Heat and Visible Smoke Release
for Discrete Products and Their Accessories Installed in Air-Handling Spaces

UL 1480Speakers for Fire Alarm and Signaling Systems, Including
Accessories

UL1480A   Standard for Speakers for Commercial and Professional Use.


Is there a Canadian equivalent rating/listing/standard for same?


Is there an EU equivalent rating/listing/standard for same?


Thank you in advance for your help.


Scott

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[PSES] Position Opening - Director of Global Regulatory Compliance

[Scott Douglas]

Submitted to the list for the agency by Scott Douglas - List Admin. 
Please contact the agency directly for further information.


We are currently recruiting for a Director of Global Regulatory 
compliance for an international Mobile device manufacturer.


Leading a global team of 30, you will provide regulatory direction, 
guidance and technical expertise to ensure the organization is in 
compliance with regulatory reporting requirements.



Regulatory Director

Provides regulatory direction, guidance and technical expertise to 
ensure the organization is in compliance with regulatory reporting 
requirements. Conducts investigations into compliance issues and 
responds to inquiries from government regulatory agencies. Navigates 
approval processes for new products / technologies that require 
government sanction.  Lead a world wide Regulatory team to ensure all 
requirements and schedules are achieved.


*Responsibilities:*

Primary responsibilities include developing and implementing regulatory 
strategy/tactics and ensuring alignment of regulatory strategy to 
business strategy in order to accelerate the development and 
commercialization of Company's products. Candidate will additionally 
provide regulatory insight (raising potential issues/concerns) on 
business matters, liaise with regulatory bodies, ensure regulatory 
compliance, and manage global regulatory submissions and registrations.



<>

Stephen Jack
step...@huntech.com
416-730-9188 x232

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[PSES] Fwd: EMC TEST ENGINEER/Manager - Direct

[Scott Douglas]

Forwarded to the list for the recruiter by Scott Douglas. Please contact 
the recruiter directly.


Message:

We are actively recruiting an *_EMC TEST ENGINEER/Manager _*for a 
*_Direct Hire_*  with a Tier 1 Supplier in *_SOUTHFIELD, MI_**.*


Please review the description below and respond with:

1.Word Formatted Resume

2.Your Interest in the position, Salary requirements

3.Summary of your capabilities as they pertain to this position

Thank you,

*Description: *
EMC Test Engineer/ Manager capable of starting up a EMC Laboratory from 
scratch, with the intention of becoming A2LA accredited to ISO 17025.  
Must be able to perform various EMC and EMC related tests, write 
reports, and assist PCB Design Engineering teams with design and debug.  
Responsible for managing, tracking, and performing (basic) equipment 
maintenance and calibrations.  Should be able to schedule testing in the 
most efficient manner, and manage less senior engineers.


***Position Responsibilities:*

·EMC and EMC related testing

·Laboratory Startup

·A2LA System Support/Startup

·Test Development

·Product Design Assistance/Recommendations

*Qualifications:*

 * iNARTE Engineering Certification
 * 4 Year Degree
 * 7 years of EMC test experience
 * Experience using and setting up tests with ETS Lindgren’s TILE! software
 * A2LA experience preferred

Albert Haddad

ahad...@catscompany.com <mailto:ahad...@catscompany.com>

(248) 816-2287 ext 138

(248) 765-9192 Cell

(248) 816-2297 Fax





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Re: [PSES] Is your company doing enough to ensure adequate EMC complia nce?

[Scott Douglas]

nd outside counsel can measure the company's behavior
> against those words, and argue why an enforcement action isn't warranted.
> Public accountability of the DOJ and SEC and how they make decisions to
> bring FCPA enforcement actions just increased.
> Beyond that, Caldwell and Ceresney last week gave companies more reasons
> to have strong compliance programs. And they gave compliance officers more
> tools to work with, and more authority. Those are the same objectives of a
> compliance defense.
> Last week was a good one for the compliance profession.
> - See more at:
> http://www.fcpablog.com/blog/2015/11/11/feds-as-thought-leaders-a-back-door-compliance-defense-takes.html#sthash.vw9uPoS1.dpuf
>
>
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[PSES] Level VI EPS

[Scott Douglas]

Merry Christmas to all,

We are looking for a Level VI EPS that is 120 V~ input and 16 V~, 1.0 A 
output. We have two, one is Level V with 3.5 mm 2 contact pin plug. The 
other is Level IV with the output cable stripped and tinned.


Has anyone had any luck finding Level VI efficient AC-AC wall mount 
adapters (EPS)? We have been searching the web and contacting 
manufacturers and so far, we have not found any that are Level VI or any 
companies that are willing to make one Level VI (most likely due to low 
annual volumes (<1k each).


So how does one make a simple and small step-down transformer be Level 
VI efficient anyway? Is it possible?


Any and all comments appreciated and I thank you in advance for them.

Best as always,
Scott

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[PSES] IEEE Oregon and SW Washington EMC CHAPTER MEETING ANNOUCEMENT

[Scott Douglas]

*Forwarded by S. Douglas for Dave Britton.

*

*Final Notice for 11/17.  We have plenty of room left.  RSVP before 
Monday 11/16/2015, Noon please.*




*_Our__Fall__2015 Program_**:*

*IEEE Oregon and SW Washington EMC CHAPTER MEETING ANNOUCEMENT*



*Tuesday, November 17, 2015*

*Topic:_IEEE PSES / EMC Joint  Meeting_*

*Abstract:*

*Passing Class B Conducted EMI can be an arduous task that is often 
mitigated by using brute-force filtering, transformer shielding and 
other “conventional wisdom” approaches that add cost, size and parts. 
However, options are limited if no AC ground (2-wire input) is used, if 
50-60Hz leakage current to the output is problematic, if space is a 
problem, and/or if a cheaper solution is desired. This inexpensive EMI 
reduction method attacks the lowest frequency common-mode EMI at one of 
the notorious sources. The method described here is shown effective in a 
single positive output flyback power supply although other 
implementations may be possible.***


*Speaker:**/Randall Elliot/*

*Bio: *

*Randall Elliott has spent over forty years in electronics starting as a 
Comm Tech for the USFS in 1973 during High School. Recruited by 
Tektronix from Idaho State University in 1978, Randy has explored many 
different positions in high-tech companies throughout the Portland area, 
often involving unusual analog and power designs with EMI suppression.  
Randy worked at Tektronix Power Supply Design, designed motor drivers at 
Synektron, test and mechanical control systems at Precision 
Interconnect, hardware for a portable Optical Spectrum Analyzer at 
Photon Kinetics, CCD Camera Systems at SiTE/PixelVision, /_Power Supply 
FAE for Delta Electronics (Taiwan), Fitness Equipment with Nautilus,_/ 
Lighting Controls for Leviton, Energy Meters at Veris/Schneider, and 
assorted side jobs through his entity Randoid LLC.  Randy is a licensed 
Professional Engineer since 1999 and Amateur Radio Extra Class since 
2006.  His involvement with CERT (Community Emergency Response Teams) 
led him into various renewable energy, water treatment and Amateur Radio 
with antenna and balun projects.  Randy is an IEEE Senior Member of the 
Power Electronics, EMC, Product Safety, Circuits and Systems, Antennas 
and Propagation, and Magnetics Societies.*


*Location:*University of Portland -ShileyHall Room 301. Map located 
athttp://www.up.edu/about/default.aspx?cid=8307=3177


*Time:*6:30 PM - Food, 7:00 PM - Meeting and Presentation

Please*RSVP*if you plan to attend. (Dave Britton 
<mailto:david.brit...@ieee.org?subject=IEEE%20EMC%20Chapter%20Meeting%20-%20RSVP>)




*Tuesday, December 08, 2015**(SEE Attached Flyer for Gift Swipe Info)*

·*Winter Social Event 
<https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=463436AFACC83B63%211137=%21AOFvdvRA9I38fvs=file%2cpdf>*-*_Christmas 
Dinner at Who Song and Larry’s_*


·*Location*:Who Songs and Larry's Restaurant 
<http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q=s_q=en==who+songs+and+larry=37.0625,-95.677068=46.764446,92.021484=UTF8=45.621714,-122.670346=0.04058,0.089865=14>- 
(upstairs room with a view of the river)


·111 SE Columbia Way, Vancouver, WA 98661 (360) 695-1198

·*Cost:*$10 per person

·*Time:*6:00 PM - 9:00 PM – (social hour 6:00 – 7:00 pm)

·Special Entertainment: TheChristmas Ship Fleet 
<http://www.christmasships.org/>is scheduled to parade directly in front 
of the restaurant that evening.


·*/_Pictures_/*taken at the event will be available on ourSkydrive 
<https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=463436AFACC83B63%211096>.


·Please*RSVP*if you plan to attend. (Dave Britton 
<mailto:david.brit...@ieee.org?subject=IEEE%20EMC%20Christmas%20Dinner%20-%20RSVP>)


David Britton
IEEE EMC Society
Oregon and SW Washington Chapter
Communications Director 2015 http://www.ewh.ieee.org/r6/oregon/emc/

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Re: [PSES] PoE Injectors

[Scott Douglas]

Thank you to all for the comments on PoE Injectors. Good to know of some 
of the pitfalls when using (re:supplying) these with a product. Not sure 
I want to sign up for the extra workload.



On 10/20/2015 1:09 PM, Richard Jones wrote:
I have also seen emission failures with IP devices using POE 
Injectors, if I remember correctly the emission margin dropped as you 
went up 10MHz, 100MHz to 1GHz. I would think that you would need to 
try a few different types to find a good one and of course unless 
you're working closely with the manufacturer there is no guarantee 
that what you test today will still pass tomorrow :-)


Rich

On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 6:06 PM, Doug Smith <d...@emcesd.com 
<mailto:d...@emcesd.com>> wrote:


Hi Chas and the group,

It was the design layout of the PCB of the POE, and it was easy to
see (no PHY used). The magnetics may have played a part but the
layout is terrible in some of these devices. They are not designed
by engineers of any competence. In my article, I was very careful
to make sure the end points of the Ethernet connection and cable
were not a factor, described in the article.

There is no PHY in this case, just inductors to inject the DC onto
the Ethernet connection. No active circuitry was involved as I
remember.

Doug

Department for Continuing Education

Oxford, Oxfordshire, United Kingdom

--

Doug Smith

P.O. Box 60941

Boulder City, NV 89006-0941

TEL/FAX: 702-570-6108 /570-6013

Mobile: 408-858-4528 

Email: d...@dsmith.org <mailto:d...@dsmith.org>

Web: http://www.dsmith.org

--




On Mon, 19 Oct 2015 21:29:14 +, "Grasso, Charles"
<charles.gra...@echostar.com <mailto:charles.gra...@echostar.com>>
wrote:

Hello Doug – in your tidbit you indicated that the pwb layout
was (likely) responsible for the
increased emissions at the below 100MHz range.  It has been my
experience that when
the magnetics are placed inside a connector, that the
emissions are more influenced from
the imbalance in the cores and assembly that the layout.
Nowadays there is literally
no ambiguity in the layout – the traces go from the phy in the
SoC to the connector -
that’s it!  [I am assuming that the design guidelines from the
connector/phy manufacturer
are being followed] Also how do you isolate the influence of
the cable in your measurements?

After all the internal signal wires could be twisted
differently as you move the cable... Y/N??

Best Regards

Charles Grasso

Compliance Engineer

Echostar Communications

(w) 303-706-5467 

(c) 303-204-2974 

(t) 3032042...@vtext.com <mailto:3032042...@vtext.com>

(e) charles.gra...@echostar.com
<mailto:charles.gra...@echostar.com>

(e2) chasgra...@gmail.com <mailto:chasgra...@gmail.com>

*From:*Doug Smith [mailto:d...@emcesd.com
<mailto:d...@emcesd.com>]
*Sent:* Sunday, October 18, 2015 1:49 PM
*To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
*Subject:* Re: [PSES] PoE Injectors

Hi Bill,

Keep in mind that many POE adapters on the market will cause
an emissions problem because they are poorly designed and
unbalance the Ethernet pairs creating common mode currents.

See my Technical Tidbit at
http://www.emcesd.com/tt2011/tt080111.htm

When you open some of them and look at the design, it is
obvious they were not designed by engineers.

Doug

Department for Continuing Education

Oxford, Oxfordshire, United Kingdom

--

Doug Smith

P.O. Box 60941

Boulder City, NV 89006-0941

TEL/FAX: 702-570-6108 /570-6013

Mobile: 408-858-4528 

Email: d...@dsmith.org <mailto:d...@dsmith.org>

Web: http://www.dsmith.org <http://www.dsmith.org>

--




On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 18:50:30 +, Bill Owsley
<00f5a03f18eb-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org
<mailto:00f5a03f18eb-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org>> wrote:

Somewhere in the references at the end, you might find
which devices that these standards apply to.

There are number of exceptions.  And there may have been
changes since doc was published.

In the past I have emailed Victor with questions.

- Bill




----

*From:*Scott Do

[PSES] Level VI Efficient EPS

[Scott Douglas]

Looking for suppliers of Level VI efficient External Power Supplies 
(wall-warts, adapters, etc.).


Perfect world is a wall-wart with snap-on AC pins, 12 VDC, 2.5A output 
and Level VI efficiency marked. (Of course with world-wide approvals too.)


Does anyone know of any manufacturers with product already on the market?

Any suggestions or comments welcome, online or off.

Regards to all,
Scott

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[PSES] PoE Injectors

[Scott Douglas]

Hello All,

I am wondering if PoE injectors need to be ErP compliant? If so, what 
efficiency level? Does anyone know of any such injectors that are compliant?


The injector would be used to power a product and not a switch, router, 
or access point.


Any and all comments appreciated.

Regards,
Scott

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Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] Stricter limits than legal (CISPR11, IEC, etc,) Where?

[Scott Douglas]

On 10/14/2015 4:40 PM, Dan Roman wrote:

The other Brian wrote:


Does anyone have first-hand experience dealing with EMC failures  in the field? 
If you fail by 1db, are you dragged
through the mud, fined, banned, prosecuted, black helicopters circle your 
house, masked men drag you out of bed in
the middle of the night? Or is action taken only on severe non-compliances?  
What's the likely scenario?


Three short stories. Customer complains they are having problems with 
our very large format flat bed laser scanner. Trip to Buffalo, NY in 
January with analyzer, antennas, etc. Found significant "noise" in the 
very quiet RF amplifier circuits. Much chin scratching, head shaking, 
hand wringing later, I found I could listen to a local radio station in 
the video path of our product. Tracking it down was a bear but finally 
found it when I let a scope probe drop and it contacted the metal 
chassis of the product. Zero span was a wonderful tool to let me listen 
to 5 different radio stations on the product and all at frequencies 
below 100 MHz. On the chassis. Then I found it on the power lines. And 
then I found it on the steel column supporting the roof of the metal 
building. The final culprit was a radio station 3 blocks north and 7 
stories up in the air. With a very large antenna on the roof. Made the 
entire building hot and resonant at various frequencies. Fixes to the 
product were difficult, but we eventually succeeded.


Second story was when some government inspector stopped in at a 
customer's store in The Netherlands. Took a sample of our product back 
to the government lab for testing. 9 dB over the limit at 48 MHz. 
Product was a high end DVD player. Just not possible according to my 
test lab reports. Pulled two units from our EU warehouse and had them 
tested in Germany. Made sure the serial numbers bracketed the one the 
government lab said was bad. Not a peep. 4+ dB margin on both units. I 
called a contact at our EU office and she was able to work her way into 
the lab and ask lots of questions for me. She had no electronics 
knowledge, but worked the customs side of things. So she knew a bit 
about handling bureaucrats. Through her, I was able to show the lab had 
a bad test set up. The lab manager re-tested according to my 
configuration "suggestions" and found the unit was compliant after all. 
The original test engineer did not work there shortly thereafter.


Last story just recently. Israeli customer bought some products (AV 
gear) and as we normally do, we allowed them to submit for local country 
approvals. Conducted EMI failed by 12 dB at 4 MHz. Very helpful customer 
took lots of photographs for me. Contacted the factory (in Asia) and 
they suggested an "improvement" that might fix the problem. There was a 
large ferrite core on the AC Mains just in from the appliance inlet that 
fed up to the front of the box where the switching power supply was 
located. The factory "improvement" was to move the ferrite an inch to 
the left and mount it to the side of the chassis and to add several more 
twists to the discrete line/neutral conductor pair. Customer reworked 
the product and it passed. Then the Israeli test lab required them to 
rework the remaining 9  units same way, selected two more for testing 
and all passed. Case closed. Almost. Looked back at the photos in the 
original EMC test reports and the ferrite was in different location from 
the production models Much closer to the inlet and much closer to the 
side of the product keeping it away from the digital audio amplifier  
modules. It looks like the production line was getting sloppy in the 
placement of the ferrite and wire and caused the failure. We added more 
inspection criteria to our factory inspection checklist after that one.


So one customer reported problem and two government gotcha's. 
Fortunately I was able to work the three problems and find solutions 
that did not involve recalls, prohibitions, or fines. And I never had to 
leave the comforts of home. Except for the month I spent in Buffalo one 
winter week in January.


Scott

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Re: [PSES] RF Common Mode Immunity Test Question

[Scott Douglas]

a-m.com 
<mailto:robert.dunker...@s-a-m.com%0b%3cmailto:robert.dunker...@s-a-m.com>> 
> writes:




>Would this not imply that nearly all types of signal cables (most are

>screened this way?) would be exempt from this test, or is my

>understanding totally wrong? (probably the case!)



Not all products have a metal case. Not all ports meet the definition of
'screened port'. Not all cables have braided screens/shields.

--

OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk 
<http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk>

<http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk> When I turn my back on the sun, it's to
look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh,
Essex UK



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[PSES] Off Topic - Warranty Question

[Scott Douglas]

Hello People,

This is not a compliance type question (at least I don't think so).

Question comes up, is there anywhere written into law or regulation that 
a manufacturer of electronic product must provide a warranty on a 
product? More specifically, is there any term associated with such a 
requirement?


One of our international sales guys thought the EU had a minimum two 
year warranty requirement. But we can't find that in writing anywhere we 
have looked. Any input from the group will be much appreciated.


Thank you in advance for your comments.

Regards,
Scott

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[PSES] Energy Efficiency, ErP, and PoE

[Scott Douglas]

Hi All,

The product is a wall mounted touch panel and the question relates to ErP,
specifically for the EU and California. The display is only 4 big. The
unit is powered by two possible means. One is by Power over Ethernet, the
other is a barrel connector for plugging in a wall-wart. We do not sell or
ship the wall-wart with the product. Our installation instructions show
both methods of powering the panel however.

We required ErP testing on the product. The manufacturer is pushing back
saying ErP is not required for this product. They cite two points making
that claim. First is Regulation 1275/2008, Article 1.(c). is dependent on
energy input from the mains power source in order to work as intended;
and

Second point they cite is from the Guidelines accompanying Commission
Regulation (EC) No 1275/2008... page 5 (decision tree) and page 9, Article
2, point 1c:

Examples for energy input other than from the mains power source:
· power over Ethernet
· power over a telephone land-line
· DC-powered products, and power over USB
· non-rechargeable batteries.

I know guidelines carry no legal weight, so my question  is - is such a
device required to meet ErP and have a 3rd party test lab report? They say
no because it is not powered by AC Mains. But we have had other products
powered by wall-warts and was told that we had to test the product and the
EPS together under 1275/2008. In addition, we had to test the EPS
separately under 278/2009. So I have never gotten a clear definition
whether these kinds of product need ErP test as a product. (I always
expected to have to get 278/2009 testing done for the EPS itself if we sold
the EPS.)

Hoping someone can provide more clarity on this one. Thanks for any
comments in advance.

Scott

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[PSES] Commission Regulation 1275/2008 and Product Information

[Scott Douglas]

To All

We just submitted a product to a famous name test lab in the UK to get a 
Verification of Conformity of the product to Commission Regulation 
1275/2008. We are being told by this test lab that we must provide them 
the URL of our web site where power consumption is published. We have 
not gotten the data in the report yet so do not really know the numbers 
at this point and so cannot post them on a web site. Isn't that why we 
sent it to the lab?


I am curious, is anyone else getting such a demand from their ErP test 
laboratory to actually review the web site before completing their task?


On the same note - Annex II, Section 7 states As of 1 January 2015, the 
following information for networked equipment shall be visibly displayed 
on manufacturers’ freely accessible websites:...


So if I add the required information to a datasheet and said datasheet 
must be opened or downloaded (as in a PDF file) in order to read the 
numbers, does this comply with the above? Or are they speaking 
literally, enter a URL and see the numbers immediately without having to 
open files or whatnot?


And, just being cantankerous, are they going to pay for a company to 
set up a web site where said information can be displayed? What if a 
company does not even have a web site? Or does not have a place on a web 
site where this data can be displayed? Unfunded mandates I say...


Thank you for any comments sent my way, or to the list.

Regards,
Scott

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Re: [PSES] ErP and Control Question

[Scott Douglas]

Steve,

Answers:
1.International AC Mains fed for the product.
2.External brick or POE for the controller.
3.Controller is sold alone or it might be sold with the product.
4.Product does not function without an external controller of 
some sort. The specific version of product in question cannot work 
without our controller.


Regards,
Scott


On 1/23/2015 10:09 PM, Steven Brody wrote:


Scott,

Questions:

1.What is the power source for the product – internal mains fed power 
supply or external brick


2.What is the power source for the controller – internal mains fed 
power supply or external brick


3.Is the product sold alone or is the external controller sold with it?

4.Can it be assumed the product does not function without the external 
controller?


/Steve Brody/

/sgbr...@comcast.net mailto:sgbr...@comcast.net/

//

*From:*Scott Douglas [mailto:sdouglas...@gmail.com]
*Sent:* Friday, January 23, 2015 6:20 PM
*To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
*Subject:* [PSES] ErP and Control Question

Fellow List Peoples,

I have a product that takes in various signals and connects these to 
output ports, something like an Ethernet switch (but does not meet the 
definitions of the regulation for that). The product was not designed 
to monitor traffic on any of the ports so it cannot know when the 
port/path is not being used.


The product is configured and controlled only by an external 
controller. When a path is not being used, the external controller 
sets the output ports to null.


The controller is in constant communication with the product, much 
like a ping on the network.


The product will go automatically into standby on power up if no 
controller is connected.


The product is smart enough to know when all ports are set null and 
will go into standby when it senses that.


The product will also go into standby if it loses communication with 
the controller. But it cannot know if traffic is passing.


The key question here is, can we use the external controller to 
determine when the product should go into standby? Is that a fair 
means to address the ...must automatically go into a mode... 
requirement? Does that meet the requirements of the regulation?


What else am I not telling? Or I am missing?

I look forward to your comments on any side of the equation. And thank 
you in advance to for them.


Best regards,

Scott

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[PSES] ErP and Control Question

[Scott Douglas]

Fellow List Peoples,

I have a product that takes in various signals and connects these to output
ports, something like an Ethernet switch (but does not meet the definitions
of the regulation for that). The product was not designed to monitor
traffic on any of the ports so it cannot know when the port/path is not
being used.

The product is configured and controlled only by an external controller.
When a path is not being used, the external controller sets the output
ports to null.

The controller is in constant communication with the product, much like a
ping on the network.

The product will go automatically into standby on power up if no controller
is connected.

The product is smart enough to know when all ports are set null and will go
into standby when it senses that.

The product will also go into standby if it loses communication with the
controller. But it cannot know if traffic is passing.

The key question here is, can we use the external controller to determine
when the product should go into standby? Is that a fair means to address
the ...must automatically go into a mode... requirement? Does that meet
the requirements of the regulation?

What else am I not telling? Or I am missing?

I look forward to your comments on any side of the equation. And thank you
in advance to for them.

Best regards,
Scott

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[PSES] Symbols for CCC Approval

[Scott Douglas]

Hello all,

I am being asked to add two symbols to my product silkscreen for CCC
Approvals.

One symbol is a not circle with waves at the bottom (water) and curled
lines above (moisture I guess). This is to signify not for use in tropical
regions.

The second symbol is a circle with mountains and =2000m inside it. This
signifies use only below 2,000 meters in altitude.

Can anyone tell me where these two symbols come from (standards reference)
and where one can get vector artwork for same?

Thank you in advance for any help provided.

Scott

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[PSES] FCC EMI Test and Ferrites on Cables

[Scott Douglas]

I want to thank all who have been contributing to this thread. Thanks, 
too, for the reference to the FCC regulation section that backs up what 
we all know.


And just to close this loop, I provided the rule part to the designer 
and he changed his mind and said he would ship the product with the HDMI 
cables with ferrites installed. Then the next day, he tells us the box 
is still failing even with the ferrites. So it ain't over yet, and we 
may end up with a proper fix instead of the ferrite solution.


Thanks again for all the comments.

Scott
.

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[PSES] FCC EMI Test and Ferrites on Cables

[Scott Douglas]

Fellow List persons...

Please help refresh a tired brain. A designer of a product tells us that 
he passes FCC emissions testing if he puts ferrite sleeves (beads?) on 
the four HDMI cables connected at the rear panel of the product.


He tells us that all he needs to do is add a statement in the user 
manual to the effect that the HDMI output cables must have ferrite 
sleeves (beads?) on them.


He says he does not need to specify manufacturer name and part number of 
the ferrites.


He says he does not need to provide the ferrites with the product.

He also does not plan to include the HDMI output cables with the product 
because every installation will have different length HDMI cables needed.


Now, my old brain thinks the above is not acceptable and that the FCC 
says that anything special needed to pass FCC testing must be provided 
with the product. And I am thinking that ferrites are special as you 
can't get them at Walmart or Radio Shack or Ace Hardware. And not all 
ferrites are the same.


Can anyone confirm my memory and maybe give a pointer to the part of the 
FCC Rules that clarify this? Or have the rules changed over the years 
and I just missed that part?


Thank you in advance for any and all comments, on list or off.

Best regards,
Scott

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[PSES] Wake Up Test - Please Disregard

[Scott Douglas]

This is a test message to wake up the list. It seems to have been asleep 
for the past 5 or 6 days. You can just delete it please.


Scott Douglas
EMC-PSTC List Admin

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Re: [PSES] Multiple power sources

[Scott Douglas]

I recall some standards require a warning label at each power entry 
point something to the effect that there are more than one power entry 
for this product. And I think that the rating label at a given power 
entry point is just for that particular entry point. Don't ask me where 
I got all that from, my old brain cannot see that far.


Scott


On 7/1/2014 10:15 PM, Nyffenegger, Dave wrote:

The standard reads for each supply .  I was assuming this was 
referring/allowing for multiple concurrent supplies on the same machine.  You think it 
was referring to different options for a single supply?  For example ratings for 1 single 
phase 60Hz supply or 1 single phase 50Hz supply or 1 3 phase supply?

My first thought before reading the standard was to put everything required on 
one nameplate only including only the primary power supply ratings located 
adjacent the primary power input.  A secondary rating plate would go adjacent 
the second power input with only the supply ratings on it.  Duplicating the 
serial number and CE mark seemed wrong to me at first but after thinking about 
it I guess it would be OK.  I could not find anything regarding whether or not 
multiple CE marks were OK for the same product.

-Dave

-Original Message-
From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2014 12:54 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Multiple power sources

In message
f3d590e5d0f24f56b4539e9d93d57...@bn1pr08mb059.namprd08.prod.outlook.com
, dated Tue, 1 Jul 2014, Nyffenegger, Dave
dave.nyffeneg...@bhemail.com writes:


Does this mean for a machine with two incoming supplies (separated by
some distance) a nameplate containing the ratings for both power
supplies needs to be on both nameplates adjacent both supplies?  Or
only the rating for the supply adjacent the nameplate should be on the
nameplate (each nameplate would have the rating for one supply)?  Seems
like the former.

It appears that the standard does not consider the case of multiple supplies in 
this clause (if at all). So you have to consider what to do and document your 
decision in the safety assessment document.

If you can put everything about both supplies on both nameplates, you could 
hardly be criticized.
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Quid 
faciamus nisi sit?
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

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Re: [PSES] Safety Interlock Switches

[Scott Douglas]

Many moons ago I went through this exact same cycle. VDE did not like 
our refrigerator switch so we went hunting. We eventually settled on a 
Cherry F82A series switch that calmed the VDE engineer down.  These may 
not be available any more. They were rated 50,000 operations.


http://tinyurl.com/lrbspbn

Then later this was changed out to use a Micro Switch WW1K05D-D9. These 
were rated 100,000 operations.


http://tinyurl.com/nkaaye4


What I liked about this switch is that is has this little plastic I 
shaped piece that can be inserted to cheat the interlock. But if you 
try to close the cover with that in place, you either can't or more 
likely the cover will dislodge the cheat and cause normal operation to 
be restored.


Just a little something from the way-back machine.


On 6/11/2014 8:49 AM, CR wrote:

On 6/10/2014 11:39 PM, Nyffenegger, Dave wrote:
  EN 60950-1 says that interlocks must be designed to prevent 
inadvertent reactivation and that the ability to operate the 
interlock with a test finger is considered likely to cause 
inadvertent reactivation of the hazard.


How do they expect the equipment to powered up for troubleshooting?

The  300 Kg office copier; it has a combination safe holding the 
interlock.


Cortland Richmond

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[PSES] Fwd: IEEE Listserv Maintenance Planned Next Wednesday Evening

[Scott Douglas]

This maintenance will take place one week from today.


 Original Message 
Subject:IEEE Listserv Maintenance Planned Next Wednesday Evening
Date:   Wed, 5 Mar 2014 15:45:45 -0500
From:   IEEE Postmaster postoff...@ieee.org
To: all-requ...@listserv.ieee.org



Dear IEEE List Owner,

On March 12th from 5 - 9 pm ET, The  IEEE Listserv servers will be 
undergoing maintenance to improve stability and availability of the 
service. There are no changes to the service. Access to the mailing list 
management interface and functionality will remain the same.



During the maintenance window you will experience the following:

 *

   The management interface to manage  mailing lists will be unavailable

 *

   Email sent to any Listserv mailing lists will experience delayed
   delivery of up to 4 hours.

 *

   All messages will remain queued until they can be delivered, no
   email loss is expected


After the maintenance work is completed List owners will be notified by 
email of the completion. If you have any questions or concerns, please 
contact IEEE E-Mail Support Team.




Regards,
listserv-h...@ieee.org mailto:listserv-h...@ieee.org
Email Support Team

http://www.ieee.org http://www.ieee.org/ ; https://listserv.ieee.org
~
IEEE: Fostering technological innovation and excellence for the benefit 
of humanity.




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[PSES] Coin Cell Batteries in Remote Controls

[Scott Douglas]

Good day All,

I have two products. One is ITE equipment (60950-1). The other is 
Audio/Video Equipment (60065). Both have credit card remote controls 
powered by coin cell batteries.


Given recent amendments to the standards regarding these types of 
batteries and the ability to remove them (by small persons), I have to ask.


Since the remote controls are battery operated, are they covered by 
either 60950-1 or 60065 and thus these new requirements? Are they 
covered because they are shipped in the same box as the product (which 
are AC Mains powered)? Are they covered even if they are only sold 
separately?


My first choice is sold separately are not covered by the standards. But 
if packaged with the products (which are covered), then they are covered 
(and must comply)?


I hope you all have good news for me...

Thanks in advance for your comments.

Regards,
Scott

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[PSES] Repair Parts

[Scott Douglas]

Hypothetical Question.

A company sells a product to a customer in a foreign country. That 
product may or may not have been compliant to the destination country's 
requirements at the time of sale.


Question is, can repair parts for the product be shipped to that country 
without concerns?


Looking forward to the arguments on both sides.

Regards,
Scott

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[PSES] Standards Dates

[Scott Douglas]

For Harmonized standards in the EU, you can get a list of the standards, 
their various versions, and which expires when.


For UL or CSA standards, how does one tell or determine when a 
particular version of a standard is no longer usable to show compliance?


Example - I have legacy product approved to UL 60065, 7th Edition but 
the approval was in 2004 or 2005. Then I have new products approved in 
2012. I have seen various ways of listing the standard in different reports.


Typical is this:  UL 60065:2003  R04.04 or UL 60065:2003 R11.06

I have tried to get a straight answer from UL but so far not much help.

Can anyone explain, does UL have expiration dates on standards or a 
point where they are n o longer usable? I know they send out letters 
about changes and updates and such, but those never seem to help much 
and often come at the cost of a file review.


Likewise for CSA. Take CAN/CSA-C22.2 NO. 60065-03 (R2012). Just on their 
web site and see they show it as:  CAN/CSA-C22.2 NO. 60065A-03 (R2012) - 
Amendment 1:2006 to CAN/CSA-C22.2 NO. 60065-03.


But I don't find anyway to know when my legacy products to older 
versions of the standards need to be submitted for update.


Kevlar on - I suppose you will tell me I need to review each change and 
determine it's impact on my product to see if it needs submitted to the 
agency again. I try to do that, but when you inherit dozens and dozens 
of legacy products all at once, it can be daunting at the least.


I'm just hoping someone can put a simple explanation to this or that 
there is an easier way.


All input appreciated and thank you.
Scott

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[PSES] ErP and Inappropriate for Intended Use

[Scott Douglas]

For ErP requirements, Commission Regulation 1275/2008 has these two points:

(c) Availability of off mode and/or standby mode
Equipment shall, except where this is inappropriate for the intended 
use, provide off mode and/or standby mode, and/or another condition...


and

(d) Power management
When equipment is not providing the main function, or when other 
energy-using product(s) are not dependent on its functions, equipment 
shall, unless inappropriate for the intended use, offer a power 
management function, or a similar function...


Who determines and how does one justify inappropriate for the intended 
use option?


I have two cases. One involves a touch panel for user input. Marketing 
types say they cannot sell a touch panel that takes more than a second 
to respond. The second case involves a wireless (2.4 GHz) function. 
Again the marketeers say that they cannot sell something that takes 20 
seconds to wake from standby. So where or how does one justify that? And 
how does one get that justification approved?


Continuing, how does one write the DofC? Do you include the 
Directive/standard used to show compliance and add a statement that ErP 
is inappropriate? Or does one just leave the ErP Directive/standard out 
of the DofC completely?


In a variation of the wireless case, consider wireless audio. The 
receiver never knows when a user will send audio to the receiver. So the 
receiver must be on all the time to be able to play that incoming audio 
whenever the user requests it. But when the wireless is on, the unit 
cannot consume less than the proscribed 0.5W. Close, but no cigar. So in 
this case, can we say the unit is on all the time and we have a manual 
(means to go standby or off)? And that there is no automatic means to go 
standby or off because the radio is always listening for the incoming 
signal? Is that compliant with Phase 2?


This years development cycle seems to be all about gray places. We are 
not computers, servers, set top boxes or anything like that. But they 
are adding wireless to a bunch of stuff that never had it before so 
going to sleep has been vetoed by the marketeers. How does one make 
compliant product in these type of cases?


As always, looking forward to your creative replies. And as always, 
thanks in advance for your comments.


Regards,
Scott

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Re: [PSES] EMC Required?

[Scott Douglas]

Grace and Bill,

Here is an excerpt from the FCC Rules:

15.3  Definitions

(k) Digital device. (Previously defined as a computing device). An 
unintentional radiator (device or system) that generates and uses timing 
signals or pulses at a rate in excess of 9,000 pulses (cycles) per 
second and uses digital techniques;



Semantic argument coming. My device previously described does not 
generate the pulses. It may transform these pulses but does not generate 
(create) them. Reading the sentence above the operative terms are 
generates AND uses. And, because of the AND, since we do not generate 
then it makes no difference if we use the signals. My translation is we 
do not generate therefore Part 15 does not apply to this specific product.


Okay, Kevlar donned, looking for arguments.

Best to all,
Scott





On 7/15/2013 4:38 AM, Grace Lin wrote:

Bill and Scott,
Since the operating frequency is higher than 9 kHz, FCC Part 15, 
Subpart B-Unintentional Radiators applies.  It is my understanding 
that an IR device doesn't need certification.

I hope this helps.
Best regards,
Grace Lin


On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 9:51 PM, Bill Owsley wdows...@yahoo.com 
mailto:wdows...@yahoo.com wrote:


For the USA, any electrical signal above 9 kHz meets the
requirement to be tested.
I think we will find similar for the EU.
EN 300 330, or 300 440, or something like that.
It has power and a switch and generates frequencies above the
lower limit - it gets tested.
ps. that means the device will need to be activated into its
operating condition for testing.
But if there is an exclusion list... I'm very interested!


*From:* Scott Douglas sdoug...@radiusnorth.net
mailto:sdoug...@radiusnorth.net
*To:* emc-p...@ieee.org mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org
emc-p...@ieee.org mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org
*Sent:* Friday, July 12, 2013 9:47 AM
*Subject:* EMC Required?

Hi folks,

Consider a simple circuit. IR diode, a transistor or two, some
resistors
and caps. Receives input from IR remote, converts to
electrical and
sends down a wire. No clock in the thing so you could call is
passive.
But does it need EMC testing for US or EU? The IR signal will
be in the
35-50 kHz range so pulses down the wire will be the same. Does
this make
it fit within the realm of EMC required? The device is sold by
itself
without other products, but is always connected to something
else in
use. Something else could be a wide variety of anything. I
think of it
like a stand-alone audio speaker. Purely a passive device that
is driven
by signals that fall within the EMC required realm. So do you
do EMC or not?

Looking forward to your opinions on this.

Scott

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[PSES] EMC Required?

[Scott Douglas]

Hi folks,

Consider a simple circuit. IR diode, a transistor or two, some resistors 
and caps. Receives input from IR remote, converts to electrical and 
sends down a wire. No clock in the thing so you could call is passive. 
But does it need EMC testing for US or EU? The IR signal will be in the 
35-50 kHz range so pulses down the wire will be the same. Does this make 
it fit within the realm of EMC required? The device is sold by itself 
without other products, but is always connected to something else in 
use. Something else could be a wide variety of anything. I think of it 
like a stand-alone audio speaker. Purely a passive device that is driven 
by signals that fall within the EMC required realm. So do you do EMC or not?


Looking forward to your opinions on this.

Scott

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Re: [PSES] EMC Required?

[Scott Douglas]

Thanks to all for the comments. Your stories reminded me of an audio amp 
oscillating in the 20 MHz range caused by PCB layout. A cap here and a 
cap there fixed it. But that was a product that expected and needed EMC 
testing. This passive thing may not be as passive as I thought. And 
thanks to John who reminded that immunity testing will also be required.


As always, the list comes through to remind of things forgotten. Thank you.

Scott

On 7/12/2013 8:26 AM, Russell Beattie wrote:

Scott
I have also had the same experience with a similar simple circuit 
going into oscillation on a vehicle and causing all sorts of problems 
- at around the 60 to 70 MHz range.

Russ Beattie

*From:* Derek Walton lfresea...@aol.com
*To:* don_borow...@selinc.com; emc-p...@ieee.org
*Cc:* sdoug...@radiusnorth.net
*Sent:* Friday, July 12, 2013 11:12 AM
*Subject:* Re: EMC Required?

HI Scott,

I'd like to reinforce what Don has said. I flew to Scotland in the 
early days of CE with a product that should have aced emissions and we 
were worried about susceptibility. It failed emissions and passed 
susceptibility. The 3 transistor circuit was singing away around 70 MHz.


I'm always reminded of the old saying we test to confirm our design 
is good


Cheers,

Derek.


-Original Message-
From: Don_Borowski don_borow...@selinc.com
To: emc-pstc emc-p...@ieee.org
Cc: Scott Douglas sdoug...@radiusnorth.net
Sent: Fri, Jul 12, 2013 9:16 am
Subject: Re: EMC Required?

Scott-

I have seen some really simple circuits using common, cheap 
transistors that had unwanted oscillations in the range of 100 to 200 
MHz, which failed radiated emissions.


The most recent one was similar to your circuit, though in the 
opposite direction -- a simple circuit with a few transistors driving 
the LED of an optocoupler for low speed digital data. The fix was 
simple (a small resistor in series with the base lead of the bipolar 
transistor driving the LED), but the test was essential, as the 
circuit otherwise performed without a problem.


Don Borowski
EMC Compliance Engineer
Schweitzer Engineering Labs
Pullman, WA, USA



From: Scott Douglas sdoug...@radiusnorth.net 
mailto:sdoug...@radiusnorth.net
To: emc-p...@ieee.org mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org emc-p...@ieee.org 
mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org

Date: 07/12/2013 06:46 AM
Subject: EMC Required?
Sent by: emc-p...@ieee.org mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org



Hi folks,

Consider a simple circuit. IR diode, a transistor or two, some resistors
and caps. Receives input from IR remote, converts to electrical and
sends down a wire. No clock in the thing so you could call is passive.
But does it need EMC testing for US or EU? The IR signal will be in the
35-50 kHz range so pulses down the wire will be the same. Does this make
it fit within the realm of EMC required? The device is sold by itself
without other products, but is always connected to something else in
use. Something else could be a wide variety of anything. I think of it
like a stand-alone audio speaker. Purely a passive device that is driven
by signals that fall within the EMC required realm. So do you do EMC 
or not?


Looking forward to your opinions on this.

Scott
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Scott Douglas emcp

Re: [PSES] California Prop 65

[Scott Douglas]

When I first came to California to interview for a job, my hotel had 
these signs displayed prominently at each entrance door.  Made me wonder 
why I wanted to stay in a hotel that had so much evil stuff in it. And 
also made me wonder why anyone would want to live in a state with so 
much nasty stuff hanging around. Yet, here I am, living and working 
here. Now I never see the signs except at the gas pump.




On 7/11/2013 12:31 PM, Richard Nute wrote:

Hi Ed:


The signs don't tell us which carcinogens, or their location
within the site.  Without this information, how can I make
informed decisions to protect myself from those carcinogens
that might be harmful to me other than avoid the site?  So,
I shouldn't go into and shop at Home Depot?  (Of course, I
am no longer in California so I can continue to shop at
Home Depot!)

And, of course, as you have so eloquently said, warnings that
are repeated over and over lose their impact.


Rich



On 7/11/2013 12:09 PM, Ed Price wrote:
Proposition 65 requires businesses to notify Californians about 
significant

amounts of chemicals in the products they purchase, in their homes or
workplaces, or that are released into the environment. By providing this
information, Proposition 65 enables Californians to make informed 
decisions

about protecting themselves from exposure to these chemicals.

This is why we are flooded with silly signs which warn about known
carcinogens in this building, in this location, associated with this
product, etc Every gas station, paint store, home improvement 
center, auto
parts store, garden center, machine shop, welding shop have these 
signs. The
signs adorn construction sites and landfills, and are so prevalent 
that they
fade into the background noise and have become meaningless. About the 
only
time you notice it is when you go somewhere and you happen to notice 
that
they DON'T have a sign. The natural assumption then is that the 
company has
a strict compliance officer, and he couldn't find a non-toxic source 
for his
sign order. California is, in many ways, a very advanced nanny state. 
BTW

(and I couldn't find this before I tired of searching), I will bet that
every California State entity is exempt from compliance with this
regulation.

Seriously, look at the list of 800 or so things on the California 
list. Then

parse the meaning of significant amount when you can detect parts per
billion of everything; you will find the exercise quite 
disheartening. OTOH,

just put up the signs or warning stickers, and almost nobody will notice
them.

Ed Price
WB6WSN
Chula Vista, CA  USA


-Original Message-
From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 10:04 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] California Prop 65

Google/Bing/Yahoo are your friend. They only want your brain.

http://oehha.ca.gov/prop65/background/p65plain.html

Brian

-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Moshe 
Henig

Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 5:19 AM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG;
emc-pstc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org
Subject: California Prop 65

Hello team,

I am looking for California Prop 65 requirements and on which 
equipment or

when it is applied.

Can you please advise

Thanks

Moshe




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[PSES] Test Message

[Scott Douglas]

This is a test. This is only a test. Do not adjust the controls of your 
TV set. This is only a test.


Checking to see if the latest changes at IEEE are still sending list 
messages out to us all.


Scott Douglas
EMC-PSTC List admin

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[PSES] Test Equipment for Sale

[Scott Douglas]

Forwarded to the list for a subscriber by Scott Douglas. Please respond 
directly to the subscriber and not to the list.


Fellow Listserver members of long standing!

By degrees, I will be placing my inventory of test lab equipment onto 
the *http://www.labmerchant.com* website. The first batch went live today.


I have ran test labs for over 30 years including DEC UK who helped me 
establish my own lab, INTERTest Systems (UK), which I operated for 14 yrs.


Putting all that experience to good use, I have transitioned into 
Technical Assessment of test laboratories and my own lab is now surplus 
to requirements.


It's difficult to put a price on equipment you've looked after but I've 
tried to value it conservatively, and I'm open to offers. Much of the 
equipment was bought for its quality, regardless of cost by 'you-know-who'.


More applicable to UK based organisations with the ability to refurbish 
climatic chambers. I have two Fisons/Gallencamp/Sanyo walk-in 
environmental chambers. They are dis-mantled and ready to go. One is 2.4 
x 2.4 x 2.4M and a smaller one. Details, specs and User manuals 
available (email me).


I hope I have captured your interest.

Eric.

eric.m...@emtas.co.uk



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Re: [PSES] Test Report Forms for IEC/EN/UL/CSA 61010-1 3rd Edition

[Scott Douglas]

It used to be that you could buy a certain CB Bulletin which contained 
all of the countries that are members of the IEC, what product 
categories they were covered in and that the national deviations were 
for those countries. I subscribed once upon a time but have not for years.


You can start here:
http://webstore.iec.ch/webstore/webstore.nsf/mysearchajax?Openformkey=CB%20Bulletinsorting=start=1onglet=1

Is this maybe somewhat close to what you are looking for? Not a TRF with 
differences, but close?


On 4/11/2013 8:41 AM, Kunde, Brian wrote:

Dan,

Thanks for the information.

We do not use UL for an NRTL but I will check with our NRTL to see if they can 
provide us with this information. I've asked them about this and at first they 
told me they would provide us with this information, but then said the IEC 
would provide it if we purchase their TRF, which would now seem not to be 
correct (unless I was an IEC member).

The Other Brian

-Original Message-
From: Dan Roman [mailto:danp...@verizon.net]
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 7:23 PM
To: Kunde, Brian; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] Test Report Forms for IEC/EN/UL/CSA 61010-1 3rd Edition

Brian,

I believe UL customers can download the national deviations for free (well it 
is not really free if you are a UL client I guess) using the SCCL even if you 
have not purchased the standard itself from UL.  Do not know if CSA or the 
others provide the same service.

__
Dan Roman, N.C.E.
mailto:dan.ro...@ieee.org


-Original Message-
From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 1:01 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Test Report Forms for IEC/EN/UL/CSA 61010-1 3rd Edition

Thanks for the information but I'm getting different answers from different 
people.

Our local TUV:SUD office told me if I order the TRF from IEC that it will 
include all available national deviations provided in a separate document.

I emailed the IEC off their website to ask them but no reply after several days.


I purchased a copy of the IEC 61010-1 3rd Ed several years ago. Now that UL and 
CSA has published their version, is there a way I can get just a list of their 
National Differences without having to buy their Tri-National version and go 
through it line by line?

There must be an easier way that I'm just not aware of. Please help.

Thanks,
The Other Brian



-Original Message-
From: Boštjan Glavič [mailto:bostjan.gla...@siq.si]
Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2013 11:47 PM
To: Kunde, Brian; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: Test Report Forms for IEC/EN/UL/CSA 61010-1 3rd Edition

Dear Brian,

You cannot buy a prepared test report form with all national deviations. You 
can only buy a basic IEC TRF on iec web page. TRFs are available free of charge 
if your laboratory is a member of CB scheme. You can ask your certification 
body for support.


Each certification body and CBTL has access to on-line CB Bulletin on CB scheme 
web page, where are published all national deviations. Therefore each 
laboratory is including national deviations into IEC TRF.

I hope it helps.

Best regards,
Bostjan


-Original Message-
From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2013 9:24 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Test Report Forms for IEC/EN/UL/CSA 61010-1 3rd Edition

Where can I purchase the Test Report Form for the IEC 61010-1 3rd Edition which 
includes all the National Deviations for Eruope, US, Canada, Australia, etc.??  
I've found some for the 2nd edition but not yet for the 3rd edition.

Thanks,
The Other Brian




LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential 
information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by 
mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you.

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[PSES] Question on FCC Part 15C Transmitter Approvals

[Scott Douglas]

We make a product that has a wireless receiver in it, 2.4 GHz band. I 
know we'll need to test  for and get FCC Part 15C Certification on this 
product (and apply FCC ID, etc.).


The supplier of our wireless receiver component also sells a matching 
transmitter. This transmitter is complete and self-contained and can be 
plugged into a USB port on a laptop for example. Data from the laptop is 
sent to our product via the wireless link.


This transmitter has its own FCC ID obtained by the manufacturer. 
Remember it plugs into some other product (like the laptop) and is not 
hidden. This is much like the transmitter for a wireless mouse.


Question is, do we need to get another FCC ID for this transmitter if:
1. We sell it with our product but do not alter the transmitter 
labeling in any way?
2. We sell it with our product and have the manufacturer print our 
brand name on the transmitter (but leave their FCC ID showing)?
3. We sell the transmitter separately from our product in generic 
packaging not altering the labeling on the transmitter?
4. We sell the transmitter separately but have the manufacturer 
print our brand name on the transmitter (but leave their FCC ID showing)?


This apparently does not meet the criteria for a modular approval and 
the transmitter FCC ID Grant does not have modular in it anywhere.


Can anyone make sense of this and explain please?

Your wisdom is much appreciated.

Scott Douglas

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Re: [PSES] laptop - house fire

[Scott Douglas]

Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can
be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.

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Re: [PSES] Recast of RTTE directive

[Scott Douglas]

I can tell you that trying to make a unique DofC for each individual 
unit serial number is absolutely unworkable. Not to mention a 
documentation and logistics nightmare.


So who do we complain to about having a unique DofC for each specific 
product? How do we get our voices heard?


Scott

On 2/25/2013 8:30 AM, John Woodgate wrote:
In message 
617eb8c8634c9149aa66c853d7b8ac53040e3...@by2prd0310mb389.namprd03.prod.o
utlook.com, dated Mon, 25 Feb 2013, Crane, Lauren 
lauren.cr...@kla-tencor.com writes:



John, since you ask...(but perhaps you only meant the re-scoping)...


I did mean the re-scoping.


The RTTE recast is also be stepping forward with the unique 
equipment number requirement in the DoC which seems to require 1 DoC 
per unit (rather than 1 DoC per model line).


AARGH!!!


As I've mentioned in a previous post, this is also appearing in the 
LVD recast, though 1 parliamentarian (Zuzana Roithová) is trying to 
change the impact of this DoC requirements point 1 to be a unique 
identifier for the DoC document itself.


I hope that industry in ALL countries will strongly object to this 
impractical AND ineffective provision.


A non-compliant product can just as easily be supplied with a DoC 
carrying a serial number as a compliant product can (even though that 
is not at all easy in practice).


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[PSES] EuP Questions

[Scott Douglas]

 Fellow List Persons...

I think I know the answer to these two questions, but would appreciate a 
confirmation from the group.


1. If a A/V or ITE product in full operation consumes less than 0.5W, 
and the EPS that supplies this product consumes less than 0.3 W no load 
with efficiency above the calculated requirement, does this product need 
to meet EuP for CE market? Or do you claim compliance or exemption from 
that requirement?


2. Is there any legal requirement anywhere in the world where the energy 
efficiency number (Roman numerals IV or V) shall be marked on an EPS 
(external power supply)?


Thank you in advance for any and all comments.

Best,
Scott Douglas

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[PSES] Job Posting - Manager, Product Engineering Compliance - Westminster, CO

[Scott Douglas]

Posted at the request of a subscriber. Please respond as directed and do 
not respond to me.

Scott Douglas EMC-PSTC List Admin

*Manager, Product Engineering Compliance - Westminster, CO*
HID Global is the trusted source for secure identity solutions for 
millions of customers around the world.
Recognized for robust quality, innovative designs and industry 
leadership, HID Global is the supplier of choice for OEMs, system 
integrators, and application developers serving a variety of markets. 
These markets include physical and logical access control, including 
strong authentication and credential management; card printing and 
personalization; highly secure government ID; and identification 
technologies used in animal ID and industry and logistics applications. 
The company's primary brands include HID®, ActivIdentity^(TM), Fargo®, 
and LaserCard®. Headquartered in Irvine, California, HID Global has over 
2,100 employees worldwide and operates international offices that 
support more than 100 countries. HID Global is an ASSA ABLOY Group 
brand. For more information, visit _www.hidglobal.com_ 
http://www.hidglobal.com


*Summary:*

   Influence the development of International Technical Standards that
   HID Global products must comply with. Standards include EMC, Safety,
   and functionality.  Membership, previous experience, or credentials
   to become a member of Standards Development Committees is required.

   Experience or knowledge of Environmental regulations, worldwide, is
   desirable.

   The qualified candidate will be a team player who will work with
   Regulatory Agencies, Laboratories, the Compliance Team, Management,
   Customers, and Engineering. 



*Essential Duties and Responsibilities:*

   · Influence the development of new or changed standards that affect
   HID Global products in the worldwide marketplace.
   · Membership in standards development committees such as UL STP,
   USTAG, USNC, and IEC
   · Knowledge of the CENELEC standards development process is desired,
   but not mandatory.
   · Knowledge of Standards, worldwide, that apply to HID Global products
   · RoHS, REACH, and Conflict Minerals Environmental Compliance in the
   EU and Environmental Compliance in other countries
   · International Import/Export requirements to allow HID Global to be
   imported into countries worldwide
   · International travel that requires a passport or the ability to
   obtain one
   · BIS ECCN determination and Certificates
   · MTBF determination 


*Required Knowledge / Experience: *

   § Membership experience or credentials to join standard development
   committees
   § International standards.  Those that relate to Access Control are
   a plus.
   § ITE EMC, and Safety
   § Radio transmitter Type Approval is a plus, but not required.
   § Knowledge of standards such as EN 300 330, EN 50130-4, EN 301
   489-1, IEC 60950, FCC Part 15, and UL 294
   § Ability to provide specific details regarding past experience that
   demonstrates versatile and diverse technical skills
   § Ability to tactfully negotiate in committee meeting settings
   § Minimum of Bachelors Degree in Electrical Engineering or other
   Technical Degree
   § Minimum of 8 to 10 years experience
   § Must be legally eligible to work in the United States
   § Must be available to work at the HID Global office located in
   Westminster, CO
   § No relocation package is offered for this position 



If you are interested in this position, please follow the link and 
submit your resume along with salary history to: 
https://home.eease.com/recruit/?id=2482021


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[PSES] Certification Engineer job posting - Carrollton, GA

[Scott Douglas]

Forwarded to the list for a non-member by Scott Douglas. Please contact 
the agent directly and not on the list or to me.



Candidate is to be a standards-certification management resource for the 
corporation in terms of compliance and technical support of new and 
existing products across multiple divisions.  Duties include 
professional communication with international standards organizations, 
standards committees, legal counsel, and internal engineering staff as 
well as manufacturing to ensure product adheres to appropriate 
approvals. Responsible for analyzing, comprehending, and interpreting 
complex certification standards, such as, UL, CSA, ANCE, ASTM, MIL, SAE, 
ABS, FAA,  ICEA, IEC, EN, and other qualification requirements based on 
customer, design, or division specifications.   Candidate will be 
responsible for data submissions for certifications as well as product 
knowledge with the ability to relate it to certifications providing 
technical, testing, and design guidance for bringing new products to 
market or adding product ratings to existing products.  The Candidate 
must have great tenacity, perseverance, and integrity -- setting an 
example of leadership and direction in matters of product compliance. 
Must be self-motivated, results oriented, and must be able to function 
in a team environment while staying focused on individual 
responsibilities.  Candidate must be able to multi-task and prioritize 
with limited supervision and have the ability to perform independently 
to achieve results.  Critical thinking is a must in order to arrange a 
multitude of information into a presentable form for certification 
submissions.  Candidate must be a creative, aggressive problem solver, 
but must be flexible with the ability to adapt quickly to changes in 
projects, deadlines, and company direction.  Candidate must have the 
perspective to understand what is important and the ability to work with 
others at all levels throughout the corporation.  Candidate must have 
technical writing skills to support the type of communication expected 
between the company and the certifying entity. Candidate will integrate 
new testing capability into the satellite testing scope of the RD 
Center as well as support company staff with the necessary information 
to keep products currents with certifying entities.  Candidate is 
expected to be extremely organized, focused, and detail oriented. The 
role of the Certification Engineer will require reviewing test data for 
certification as well as ensuring that all tests are properly 
completed.  This will include the creation of final reports for review 
by the standards organizations.  Since product development leads the 
company into various areas around the world, being able to develop 
professional contacts and creating business relationships with global 
standards entities is also necessary.


__

_Qualifications and Experience Preference:_

Three to five years of experience with a regulatory compliance 
background, though more would be preferable. Bachelor of Science in 
Chemical Engineering or related field is recommended. The ability to 
read and interpret technical standards, certifications, drawings, 
catalog sheets, and test data is required. Experience in technical 
report development is a must. Experience with UL, CSA, IEC and the 
National Electric Code (NEC) would be useful.  Must be able to travel up 
to 25% of the time, and skill and experience in statistics and 
statistical measurement analysis would be a plus.


Interested candidates please send resume to gi...@cliftonconsulting.org 
mailto:gi...@cliftonconsulting.org or visit www.cliftonconsulting.org 
http://www.cliftonconsulting.org for further details.





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[PSES] Job Posting - Manager, Product Engineering Compliance,Westminster, CO

[Scott Douglas]

Posted by Scott Douglas, EMC-PSTC Admin for the requester. Please 
respond as directed in the positing. Do not reply to me.


Manager, Product Engineering Compliance
Westminster, CO

HID Global is the trusted source for secure identity solutions for millions of 
customers around the world.
Recognized for robust quality, innovative designs and industry leadership, HID 
Global is the supplier of choice for OEMs, system integrators, and application 
developers serving a variety of markets. These markets include physical and 
logical access control, including strong authentication and credential 
management; card printing and personalization; highly secure government ID; and 
identification technologies used in animal ID and industry and logistics 
applications. The company's primary brands include HID®, ActivIdentity™, 
Fargo®, and LaserCard®. Headquartered in Irvine, California, HID Global has 
over 2,100 employees worldwide and operates international offices that support 
more than 100 countries. HID Global is an ASSA ABLOY Group brand. For more 
information, visitwww.hidglobal.com

Summary:

The qualified candidate will represent HID Global and its parent company, Assa 
Abloy, on various domestic and international technical standards bodies for the 
purposes of influencing, understanding, and disseminating HID’s obligations 
with respect to these standards to product development and product management 
teams.

Standards include Radio, EMC, and Safety.

Membership, previous experience, or credentials to become a member of Standards 
Development Committees is essential.

Experience or knowledge of Environmental regulations, worldwide, is desirable.

Essential Duties and Responsibilities:

* Influence the development of new or changed standards that affect HID Global 
products in the worldwide marketplace.
* Membership in standards development committees such as UL STP, USTAG, USNC, 
and IEC
* Knowledge of the CENELEC standards development process is desired, but not 
mandatory
* Knowledge of Standards, worldwide, that apply to HID Global products
* RoHS, REACH, and Environmental Compliance internationally
* International travel that requires a passport or the ability to obtain one
* BIS ECCN determination and Certificates
* MTBF determination

Required Knowledge / Experience:

* Membership experience or credentials to join standard development committees
* International standards.  Those that relate to Access Control or Security are 
a plus
* EMC and Safety Approvals
* Radio transmitter Type Approval
* Knowledge of standards such as EN 300 330, EN 50130-4, EN 301 489-1, IEC 
60950, FCC Part 15, and UL 294
* Ability to tactfully negotiate in committee meeting settings
* Minimum of Bachelors Degree in Electrical Engineering or other Technical 
Degree
* Minimum of 8 to 10 years experience
* Must be legally eligible to work in the United States
* Must be available to work at the HID Global office located in Westminster, CO
* No relocation package is offered for this position


If you are interested in this position, please follow the link and submit your 
resume along with salary history to:https://home.eease.com/recruit/?id=2482021


HID Global is a Equal Opportunity Employer, M/F/D/V
If you have a disability which limits your ability to apply online, please call 
(303) 404-6868, or emailmcro...@hidglobal.com  to express your interest in this 
position.

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Re: [PSES] wireless approvals matrix

[Scott Douglas]

Bob,

The IEEE Servers have been experiencing problems with power outages and 
what not since super storm Sandy roared through New York and New Jersey. 
It may be a while before order is restored and all is back online. 
Please have patience while IEEE works to get things working again.


Regards,

Scott Douglas
EMC-PSTC List Admin


On 11/1/2012 10:07 AM, Sykes, Bob wrote:


Worldly Experts,

Some time ago a few members of this list compiled a list of global 
wireless approval requirements.


Foolishly I did not save any emails containing the link to that 
document and now it would be extremely to me.


It seems the list archives are not working, or the at least the link 
to them in the email footers doesn't work.


Can anyone point me to the wireless approval document?

adTHANKSvance,

Bob Sykes


Please be advised that this email may contain confidential 
information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us 
by email by replying to the sender and delete this message. The sender 
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[PSES] Job Posting - Manager, Product Engineering Compliance

[Scott Douglas]

Posted at request of a list subscriber. Please do not contact me about 
this. Instead follow the directions below.

Scott Douglas, EMC-PSTC Email List Admin
---
Manager, Product Engineering Compliance
Westminster, CO

HID Global is the trusted source for secure identity solutions for 
millions of customers around the world.
Recognized for robust quality, innovative designs and industry 
leadership, HID Global is the supplier of choice for OEMs, system 
integrators, and application developers serving a variety of markets. 
These markets include physical and logical access control, including 
strong authentication and credential management; card printing and 
personalization; highly secure government ID; and identification 
technologies used in animal ID and industry and logistics applications. 
The company's primary brands include HID®, ActivIdentity^(TM), Fargo®, 
and LaserCard®. Headquartered in Irvine, California, HID Global has over 
2,100 employees worldwide and operates international offices that 
support more than 100 countries. HID Global is an ASSA ABLOY Group 
brand. For more information, visit www.hidglobal.com


Summary:

Influence the development of International Technical Standards that HID 
Global products must comply with. Standards include EMC, Safety, and 
functionality.  Membership, previous experience, or credentials to 
become a member of Standards Development Committees is required.


Experience or knowledge of Environmental regulations, worldwide, is 
desirable.


The qualified candidate will be a team player who will work with 
Regulatory Agencies, Laboratories, the Compliance Team, Management, 
Customers, and Engineering.


Essential Duties and Responsibilities:

* Influence the development of new or changed standards that affect HID 
Global products in the worldwide marketplace.
* Membership in standards development committees such as UL STP, USTAG, 
USNC, and IEC
* Knowledge of the CENELEC standards development process is desired, but 
not mandatory.

* Knowledge of Standards, worldwide, that apply to HID Global products
* RoHS, REACH, and Conflict Minerals Environmental Compliance in the EU 
and Environmental Compliance in other countries
* International Import/Export requirements to allow HID Global to be 
imported into countries worldwide

* International travel that requires a passport or the ability to obtain one
* BIS ECCN determination and Certificates
* MTBF determination

Required Knowledge / Experience:

* Membership experience or credentials to join standard development 
committees

* International standards.  Those that relate to Access Control are a plus.
* ITE EMC, and Safety
* Radio transmitter Type Approval is a plus, but not required.
* Knowledge of standards such as EN 300 330, EN 50130-4, EN 301 489-1, 
IEC 60950, FCC Part 15, and UL 294
* Ability to provide specific details regarding past experience that 
demonstrates versatile and diverse technical skills

* Ability to tactfully negotiate in committee meeting settings
* Minimum of Bachelors Degree in Electrical Engineering or other 
Technical Degree

* Minimum of 8 to 10 years experience
* Must be legally eligible to work in the United States
* Must be available to work at the HID Global office located in 
Westminster, CO

* No relocation package is offered for this position


If you are interested in this position, please follow the link and 
submit your resume along with salary history to: 
https://home.eease.com/recruit/?id=2482021



HID Global is a Equal Opportunity Employer, M/F/D/V
If you have a disability which limits your ability to apply online, 
please call (303) 404-6868, or email mcro...@hidglobal.com to express 
your interest in this position.



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[PSES] Job Opening - 1 Yr Contract - Compliance Engineer

[Scott Douglas]

Posted at the request of the sender. Please contact him directly and not 
on the list. Scott Douglas, EMC-PSTC Admin


*_Job Description_*

*__*

Basic Qualifications:

.BSEE

.Minimum 10 to 15 years engineering experience

.Experience with design for *EMC  - Electro Magnetic Capability* 
(mitigating radiating emissions  cross talk) and *EMI - Electro 
Magnetic Interference (*electrical rotating equipment or high powered 
equipment) -- omit radiated emissions


.Management/Coordination with 3^rd party testing agencies

.Proven ability to work with manufacturing and sourcing to expediently 
resolve technical issues


.Minimum 5 to 10 year prior working with specific Regulatory Compliance 
agencies- CSA (Canadian), UL (US), ETL-Semko (Australia), CE, GOST (Russia)


.Project Management skills

Regards,

*Chris DeBrew***

*ACCOUNT RECRUITING MANAGER ***


*Phone**: (864) 607-9057***

*Email: **cdeb...@aerotek.com mailto:sst...@aerotek.com*



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Re: [PSES] Interview Questions

[Scott Douglas]

110 V~ 50 Hz countries:

Jamaica
Lebanon

Some selected areas in some countries may have 110 V~ even though that 
is not the norm for the rest of the country.




On 7/3/2012 3:43 PM, IBM Ken wrote:
Not sure this is what you are looking for; but the 110-230V unit is 
rated as a range, so the tolerance would be below 110 and above 230.  
The 110/230 V has two distinct rating ranges, so the tolerances would 
be above and below 110 AND above and below 230VAC.  That's the first 
thing that pops into mind, anyway.

PS: Who operates at 110VAC 50Hz?

On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Nick Williams 
nick.willi...@conformance.co.uk 
mailto:nick.willi...@conformance.co.uk wrote:


This has the makings of an extremely esoteric pub quiz, if we're
not careful!

Here is one, adapted from a phone enquiry I dealt with this
morning this morning:

You have two appliances. One is marked 110 - 230V ~50Hz and the
other is marked 110/230V ~50Hz. What do you look for on one
which is missing from the other?

I'll let the group answer.

Nick.

On 3 Jul 2012, at 19:38, Kevin Robinson wrote:


Hello All,

I have recently been tasked with writing a set of questions that job
candidates would need to answer at the same time they apply for a
position requiring  knowledge of product safety evaluation, testing
and practices.  These questions would serve as an automated pre
screening mechanism.  Questions like What does the term creepage
distance mean? would be perfect , however the challenge that I am
facing is finding questions that the answers are not easily found
using Google.  If anyone has any product safety related questions
that
they would not mind sharing, I would greatly appreciate it.

Kevin Robinson

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Nick Williams
Director
Direct line: +44 1298 873811 tel:%2B44%201298%20873811
Mobile: +44 7702 995135 tel:%2B44%207702%20995135
email: nick.willi...@conformance.co.uk
mailto:nick.willi...@conformance.co.uk

-

Conformance Ltd - Product safety, approvals and CE-marking consultants
The Old Methodist Chapel, Great Hucklow, Buxton, SK17 8RG England
Tel. +44 1298 873800 tel:%2B44%201298%20873800, Fax. +44 1298
873801 tel:%2B44%201298%20873801, www.conformance.co.uk
http://www.conformance.co.uk/
Registered in England, Company No. 3478646

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Attachments

[PSES] Job Opening Microsoft - Senior (Director Level) Product Safety Engineer

[Scott Douglas]

To All,

Posted by Scott Douglas at the request of the sender. Please reply 
directly to the sender and not to me or the list.



We currently have an opening in our Safety, Compliance  Sustainability 
organization seeking qualified candidates for a Senior (Director Level) 
Product Safety Engineer for safety design review, analysis and 
verification of Microsoft hardware products. This position will work 
cross-functionally with a diverse cross-section of Microsoft business 
groups including design and software development teams, Legal, Quality, 
Reliability, Supply Chain Operations and Manufacturing to ensure the 
safety of our products.


Required Management Skills/Abilities Technical Skills/Knowledge:
- Expertise with Risk Assessment and Hazard Based Safety Engineering 
with understanding of product safety lifecycle, including system failure 
analysis methodologies such as Fault Tree, or Failure Mode and Effects 
Analysis (FMEA).
- Demonstrated ability with quality, Design for Experiment, and/or Six 
Sigma methodologies.
- Identify, assess and/or develop product safety technologies including 
inherent fail safes that innovate and meet defined safety risk levels.
- Understand material characteristics as they apply to safety critical 
performance and familiarity with other physical disciplines such as 
mechanical or chemical engineering.
- Deep knowledge of high reliability and/or power circuitry design and 
potential ignition sources.

- Establish scientific test processes to support safety requirements.
- Understand and clearly communicate mechanisms of safety failures
- Viewed as a program expert and is proactively sought out for as such 
by development team


Industry Skills/Knowledge:
- Interface with standards bodies, certification bodies, and industry 
groups on international standards and safety engineering best practices 
development.
- Anticipate future complex products/feature areas or releases and 
relationship to potential safety, rather than primarily focusing on 
present complex products/feature areas
- Create positive brand equity for Microsoft through publication of 
papers and leadership in product safety organizations.


Process and Management Skills/Knowledge:
- Provide clear direction on company and group product safety initiatives.
- Oversee product safety related field campaigns and recalls
- Draft safety-related guidelines and specifications
- Handle multiple design issues simultaneously with attention to detail 
and facts.
- Train engineering and manufacturing teams and management regarding 
safety design issues with supporting details on requirements.
- Develop and maintain strong relationships with engineering development 
and compliance engineering teams, legal department and management.
- Demonstrate effective presentation and communication skills regarding 
complex technical issues in front of executives and peers.
- Provide litigation assistance including case preparation and strategy 
support, as well as execution of company defense strategies, including 
deposition and trial testimony.


The following minimum experience and education:
- Bachelors/Master's Degree in Electrical Engineering or equivalent
- 12+ years industry work experience including involvement in the new 
product development process, experience leading and coordinating 
projects, and proven track record of developing successful products on 
time.

- Excellent communication, interpersonal and organizational skills
- Professional Engineer certification preferred

GARRETT HALLMARK
Talent Sourcer
Microsoft | IEB Interactive Entertainment Business
*EMAIL: v-gah...@microsoft.com
 http://www.linkedin.com/in/garrettandrewhallmark 
/redirect?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Elinkedin%2Ecom%2Fin%2Fgarrettandrewhallmarkurlhash=aQaT_t=mbox_prop 






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Re: [PSES] Safety cost and ESD

[Scott Douglas]

 roll around pedestal on rubber wheels. When they
send it to a lab and test it this way there is a problem. I don't have the
pedestal so I'm trying to simulate with my table and removing the 1 mohm
bleeder resistor. Between discharges to the table, I ground a braided strap
attached to the table top to my reference plane below. I get very similar
results then. What should the braid really look like - should it just be a
short, should it have some bleed resistance in it. I chose none since the
discharge is going to be people touching the pedestal or other furniture
that is grounded.

What does the standard say about  the VCP and HCP?

Gary McInturff
Reliability/Compliance Engineer

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[PSES] Color of Mains Wiring

[Scott Douglas]

For ITE (60950-1) and A/V (60065) products a question of color came up 
today.


I told an ODM they had to use Brown (Line), Blue (Neutral), and 
Green/Yellow (PE) colors for AC Mains wiring inside the product. They 
replied that the current standard does not require Brown and Blue. I 
looked in my several years old copies of the standards (UL, CSA, IEC) 
and the only color I can find is Green/Yellow for Protective Earth.


For years I have been requiring and getting AC Mains within a product to 
be Brown, Blue, Green/Yellow. For whatever reason, this just that way it 
was and everybody knew it and used those colors.


Since I cannot find that requirement in either of the standards, can 
anyone tell my why I have been insisting on them all these years? Where 
does the requirement come from? BFIF, I also recall that UL accepts 
Brown, Blue, and Green/Yellow within domestic products. So where does 
that that allowance/acceptance come from?


This is not for external power cords, but hook-up wire inside the product.

I am looking for page, paragraph, and rule - something in writing just 
so I know that I have not been on the happy wagon all these years.


Here's to hoping someone can tell me I have not been dreaming all this time.

Regards,
Scott

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[PSES] Wireless Telephone and Wireless Internet Clash - Follow-up #1

[Scott Douglas]

 First follow-up to the original post. Let me thank everyone for their 
interesting responses so far. As always an education.


I can tell you it is NOT the 900 MHz wireless phones. We disconnected 
both of them from AC Mains and telco. We also turned off the outside 
motion sensing lights. Neither one solved the problem.


We have one digital timer that turns on a light about 5 pm and off about 
11 pm. This light is a CFL. We are going to replace it today with an 
incandescent to see if that helps. We have two other CFL in the kitchen 
but they aren't used very often. We also have another digital timer that 
turns on an incandescent light at random times. It is usually manually 
turned off when somebody gets home from work in the evening. So two more 
tests would be to replace the other two CFL just to be sure and to 
remove the digital timers.


We can think of no other time dependent gizmos that operate only during 
the 6-10 pm window in our house. There are things that maybe could cause 
the issue, but they are just as likely to operate at other times as 
during the problem time.


Does anybody think this could be a conducted EMI issue (on the AC Mains 
getting through the little wall-warts that power either the router or 
radio)? Or does it seem more likely a to be a radiated issue, as in 
messing with the modulated RF between our radio and the access point? Or 
maybe radiated into some cabling or wiring in the house? Still trying to 
narrow the mechanism down.


Somebody asked why is the antenna in the tree. The AP is down by the 
lake, maybe 150-200 feet lower elevation. And there are hills and tons 
of trees between us. The ISP brought a bucket truck to move the antenna 
around and see where he could get the best signal. And it was not from 
on or around the house. We have seen no power issues on the radio at any 
time of the year (except when we have ice storms). The AP relays to the 
main system antennas on top of a local mountain. An ice storm in 
January 2011 coated the main system antennas with 6 inches of ice. The 
tower was so coated it was too dangerous to climb so we had to wait 
until they melted. Otherwise weather has not been an issue.


I am not aware of any local radio operators within a mile of our house. 
There are some dish users that may have communications over the power 
lines, but they are at least a distribution transformer or two away from us.


The saga continues.

Scott

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[PSES] Wireless Telephone and Wireless Internet Clash

[Scott Douglas]

Hello All,

We have a situation in our house. Two years ago our cable system went 
Chapter 7. So we signed up with an ISP that provides a wireless Internet 
connection. Radio and antenna are 40 feet up in the big tree out front 
of the house and operates at 915 MHz. The radio is connected to our 
router (in the basement wiring cabinet) via shielded CAT-5. The house is 
wired with CAT-5 in every room and all terminate at the wiring cabinet. 
The external power supply feeding power to the radio (POE) is located in 
the basement wiring cabinet right next to the routers EPS.


We regularly have Internet problems, losing connection, extremely slow 
transfer rates, etc. It seems particularly bad between 6 and 10 pm 
(usually a few hours in that block of time). It is pretty consistent 
(almost daily). Our ISP pings every radio in the system every 15 seconds 
and plots the return time. Normally we run in the 10 to 20 msec range. 
But when it goes bad, ping times can exceed 3-5 SECONDS! Or sometimes it 
just cannot talk at all. Our radio power levels are always quite strong 
(-59 to -63 dBm), even when we cannot ping or pass data. The ISP 
compares my return response to another radio less than a mile away from 
me. Theirs is always rock steady, nary a ping over 30 msec. He showed me 
plots of both radio power levels and ping response times and it is very 
clear to me that my system is falling down a lot, to the point of not 
even being able to use it.


The router is only a year old, the laptop is only 3 months old. We had 
these same problems with the old router and the old desktop too. The 
mains wiring is all less than 10 years old and mechanically screwed down 
rather than stripped and poked into the outlet, etc. I even went around 
to check connections and tightened some loose screws in the old part of 
the house two years ago. When I wired the house, I took extra care to 
keep good routing and separation of AC, CAT-5, and RF. All network and 
RF connectors are good quality and poor crimp connections were not 
tolerated. Everything is tight and in good order.


The ISP says it is not the radio, but somehow the data is getting hosed 
before it can be modulated onto the carrier. He thinks it is something 
in my house causing the problem. He said he has seen problems before 
with wireless telephones, Blackberry's, motion detectors, and some other 
things. We do have a 900 MHz wireless telephone that is 5-7 years old. 
After my most recent conversation with the ISP, I decided to disconnect 
the 900 MHz wireless phone. I had not told the ISP and tonight he 
emailed me and asked what we had done. He said the system graphs had 
improved dramatically. Next week we are going to plug the phone back in 
and see if the problem repeats.


My question(s) to the list are how do you explain this? Is it radiated 
as in two radios beating against each other or your more normal radiated 
EMI getting in the system hardware? Is it conducted on the mains or the 
network wiring? Where is the ingress occurring? Can the phone make 
enough EMI to trash the data getting into the radio? I will also be 
looking for a solution (besides trashing the phone).


I have my ideas and opinions but will hold those for now. As always, I 
will be looking forward to the interesting comments, ideas, and 
solutions that come from you all.


Thanks in advance for your replies.

Best,
Scott

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[PSES] UL to Propose Suspension Withdrawal of UL 6500

[Scott Douglas]

To the List,

For those of you with legacy A/V products certified to UL 6500, this may 
be welcome news. I learned in a phone call from UL today that a proposal 
to suspend the withdrawal of UL 6500 (and maybe some other standards 
too) will be mailed out to their clients in the next week or so. UL 6500 
was planned to be withdrawn May 1, 2012. As I understand it, they will 
propose to suspend that withdrawal and to allow new product to continue 
to be certified to UL 6500 until May 1, 2013. Clients will have four 
weeks to provide UL comments. After that time, UL will have to decide if 
they actually suspend the withdrawal or not. Clients should look for 
that letter from UL soon.


Regards,
Scott

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Re: [PSES] Rating Label Nomenclature for Auto Voltage Select Devices

[Scott Douglas]

 
list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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[PSES] Power Supply Inside Wall Cavity

[Scott Douglas]

Fellow List People,

A Product Manager came to me with a new design concept. They want to 
install a product inside a wall. Okay I said, no big deal, its been done 
before. Then they tell me they also want to install the mains connected 
power supply inside the wall cavity too. They mentioned a wall-wart type 
of supply as one possibility. But the supply needs to be in a different 
housing from the product for whatever reason.


For the US market, my NEC bells start clanging loudly. Then they add 
that this is a product for world-wide application. I can't even begin to 
guess what the local / national electrical codes would say about this 
concept.


Anyone have any comments, pointers, or warnings to share about the idea?

As always, thanks for any and all comments.

Best regards,
Scott

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[PSES] CE Authorization of Products Using RF for Aesthetic Skin Treatments

[Scott Douglas]

Sent to the list for the subscriber by Scott Douglas, EMC-PSTC List Admin.


Hello,

1.One of our customers manufactures products for aesthetic skin 
treatments using RF for their functions.


2.The RF transmission is at non-ISM frequency bands.

3.Can such devices be approved under CISPR 11, Group 2?

4.Any opinions will be appreciated.



Please respond directly to the originator:

*David Shidlowsky***

itl...@itl.co.il

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list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org

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[PSES] Subscriber Headcount History

[Scott Douglas]

To All,

Somebody had to do it. They just had to ask the question

2004-10-06
* Total number of concealed subscribers:   1
* Total number of users subscribed to the list:910  (non-concealed 
only)
* Total number of local host users on the list:  0  (non-concealed 
only)


2004-11-22
* Total number of users subscribed to the list:895
* Total number of local host users on the list:  0

2005-04-21
* Total number of concealed subscribers:   1
* Total number of users subscribed to the list:895
* Total number of local host users on the list:  0

2005-10-25
* Total number of concealed subscribers:   4
* Total number of users subscribed to the list:878
* Total number of local host users on the list:  0

2006-01-29
* Total number of concealed subscribers:   6
* Total number of users subscribed to the list:872
* Total number of local host users on the list:  0

2006-03-06
* Total number of concealed subscribers:   6
* Total number of users subscribed to the list:876
* Total number of local host users on the list:  0

2006-10-14
* Total number of concealed subscribers:  18
* Total number of users subscribed to the list:808
* Total number of local host users on the list:  0

2007-01-30
* Total number of concealed subscribers:  28
* Total number of users subscribed to the list:806
* Total number of local host users on the list:  0

2007-02-24
* Total number of concealed subscribers:  25
* Total number of users subscribed to the list:798
* Total number of local host users on the list:  0

2007-03-20
* Total number of concealed subscribers:  24
* Total number of users subscribed to the list:791
* Total number of local host users on the list:  0

2007-03-21
* Total number of concealed subscribers:  22
* Total number of users subscribed to the list:769
* Total number of local host users on the list:  0

2007-08-31
* Total number of concealed subscribers: 26
* Total number of users subscribed to the list:764
* Total number of local host users on the list: 0

2007-10-07
* Total number of concealed subscribers: 26
* Total number of users subscribed to the list:763
* Total number of local host users on the list:  0

2007-10-27
* Total number of concealed subscribers:  26
* Total number of users subscribed to the list:764
* Total number of local host users on the list:  0

2008-01-19
* Total number of concealed subscribers:  27
* Total number of users subscribed to the list:762
* Total number of local host users on the list:  0

2008-04-07
* Total number of concealed subscribers:  27
* Total number of users subscribed to the list:763
* Total number of local host users on the list:  0

2009-01-05
* Total number of concealed subscribers:  24
* Total number of users subscribed to the list:739  (non-concealed 
only)
* Total number of countries represented: 26   
(non-concealed only)

* Total number of local host users on the list: 0

2009-02-13
* Total number of concealed subscribers:  24
* Total number of users subscribed to the list:768
* Total number of local host users on the list:  0

2009-07-24
* Total number of concealed subscribers: 22
* Total number of users subscribed to the list:729 (non-concealed 
only)
* Total number of countries represented: 24  
(non-concealed only)
* Total number of local host users on the list: 0   (non-concealed 
only)


2010-01-01
* Total number of concealed subscribers: 22
* Total number of users subscribed to the list:719 (non-concealed 
only)
* Total number of local host users on the list:  0   
(non-concealed only)


2010-09-18
* Total number of users subscribed to the list:735

2011-03-17
* Total number of concealed subscribers:  20
* Total number of users subscribed to the list:735   (23 were then 
deleted during housekeeping)

* Total number of local host users on the list:  0

2012-01-04
* Total number of concealed subscribers:  19
* Total number of users subscribed to the list:668  (non-concealed 
only)
* Total number of countries represented: 22
(non-concealed only)
* Total number of local host users on the list:  0 
(non-concealed only)


In the first quarter of 2007 we performed a house keeping of the 
subscriber list, removing dead email addresses and duplicate accounts.


I'm not going to do the math or correlate to the whims of the bean 
counters that control our destinies. I leave that to someone else with 
no life


Happy New Year To All.

Scott Douglas
EMC-PSTC List Admin

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Re: [PSES] new std - UL2747

[Scott Douglas]

/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net
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For policy questions, send mail to:
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David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com

[PSES] EMC-PSTC Email List Subscriber Status as of January 4, 2012

[Scott Douglas]

To All,

Here is a brief summary of EMC-PSTC Email List subscribers by country. 
This list was collected January 4, 2012.


*  Country  Subscribers
*  ---  ---
*  Argentina  1
*  Australia  5
*  Belgium1
*  Canada14
*  China  2
*  Denmark6
*  France 1
*  Germany   10
*  India  1
*  Ireland1
*  Israel 5
*  Italy  3
*  Japan  3
*  Luxembourg 1
*  Netherlands2
*  Norway 2
*  Poland 1
*  Singapore  2
*  Spain  3
*  Taiwan 3
*  United Kingdom25
*  United States576
*
* Total number of concealed subscribers:  19
* Total number of users subscribed to the list:668  (non-concealed only)
* Total number of countries represented:22  (non-concealed only)


Best regards,

Scott Douglas
EMC-PSTC List Admin

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This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion 
list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org

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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
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[PSES] Fwd: Exciting Global Product Safety and Regulatory Compliance Manager opportunity

[Scott Douglas]

Forwarded to the list by Scott Douglas, EMC-PSTC Admin.

Please respond directly to the recruiter and not to the list.

 Original Message 
Subject: 	Exciting Global Product Safety and Regulatory Compliance 
Manager opportunity

Date:   Tue, 13 Dec 2011 13:20:34 -0500
From:   Quagliozzi, Kristen (Consultant) kristen.quaglio...@brooks.com



My name is Kristen Quagliozzi and I am a Recruiter with Brooks 
Automation (www.brooks.com http://www.brooks.com/) in Chelmsford, MA.


I am currently networking for a Product Safety and Regulatory Compliance 
Manager opportunity.  This position will ensure that the company's 
products are designed, tested, and documented to satisfy the health and 
safety regulatory and standards requirements and by providing design 
guidance and overseeing product compliance.  This professional will act 
in an oversight role and develop/improve, implement and oversee 
product EHS compliance for the global Brooks organization.  This 
individual must have at least seven years of product safety experience 
with a core understanding of electrical product safety.


Please let me know if you know of anyone who would be interested in 
exploring this exceptional opportunity.


Thank you in advance for any assistance you can provide.

Kindest regards,

Kristen Quagliozzi

Recruiting Consultant

Brooks Automation

Office: 401.855.0624

Fax: 978.262.7615

www.brooks.com http://www.brooks.com

_
This email message, including any attachments, may contain confidential and
proprietary information for the sole use of the intended recipient.  If you are
not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, copying or
dissemination of this message is strictly prohibited.  If you received this
message in error, please notify Brooks Automation, Inc. immediately by reply
email or by calling Brooks US Headquarters at +1 978-262-2400. Then delete this
message from your system, without making any copy or distribution.  Thank you.


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Re: Does CE Apply to Infrared Emitter Probes

[Scott Douglas]

Wouldn't the EN 60825 (lasers, LED's) series also be applicable?

Scott Douglas

John Woodgate wrote:
 In message 
 2a93eb060901301019n32b26229g5af6e9ae007fb...@mail.gmail.com, dated 
 Fri, 30 Jan 2009, Grace Lin graceli...@gmail.com writes:

 Does CE apply to infrared emitter probes?  The probe is designed 
 adhere directly over the sensor window of TV providing a 1-way IR 
 control interface to the TV.

 'CE' doesn't really mean anything. The EMC and Low Voltage Directives 
 apply. I suspect that in fact such a product is below the voltage 
 bound of the LVD. For EMC, EN 55013 and EN 55020 would appear to 
 apply, but there are no relevant requirements, I think, for an IR 
 emitter, even though the remote controls of TVs and VCRs use 
 infra-red. I suggest applying EN 55022 and 55024.

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Reminder about List Rules

[Scott Douglas]

To All,

This is a gentle reminder that posting messages to the EMC-PSTC Email 
List where the contents are considered advertising is a violation of the 
list rules. If you have any questions whether an email would be 
considered advertising, please contact one of the List Administrators 
for guidance.

A copy of the list rules is located here:

http://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html

Your cooperation will be appreciated by all.

-- 
Best Regards,

Scott Douglas
EMC-PSTC Administrator
email:  emcp...@ptcnh.net

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.org

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List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

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Re: WEEE statements in user manuals?

[Scott Douglas]

So that's kind of like design validation by the customer, right? Build 
it, ship it, let the customer figure out what works and how? I know a 
few companies that work like that, why not the EU Commission?

Scott Douglas

John Woodgate wrote:
 In message 
 f51035525f51b14d9b6e90f85793591324ea5...@pysxmb02.dialogic.com, 
 dated Thu, 15 Jan 2009, Daniel Roman dan.ro...@dialogic.com writes:

 And while the Directive applies to household and professional 
 equipment, Article 10 states in part ?Member States shall ensure that 
 users of electrical and electronic equipment in private households 
 are given the necessary information? so does that mean B2B or 
 professional equipment does not require user instructions because it 
 is assumed non-household users will already know the proper way to 
 recycle the equipment?

 Not uniquely, the WEEE Directive is a mess at the detail level. So 
 don't ask!

 This mess in accordance with the Commission policy of introducing 
 Directives half-baked, if they can't be fully-baked within some 
 arbitrary time-scale, and sorting out the problems later - a policy 
 that used to exasperate M Thatcher.

 The Automotive Products Directive is another example.

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EMC-PSTC Archive for 2008

[Scott Douglas]

To All,

We have closed out the EMC-PSTC Active Archive for 2008 and moved it to 
the Archive folder on the EMC-PSTC Forum web site. If you want to search 
for messages for last year, it will be just like searching for messages 
for earlier years. Note that the 2008 archive actually runs from January 
19, 2008 through January 5, 2009. If you have any questions or comments, 
please let us know.

Best Regards,

Scott Douglas
EMC-PSTC Administrator
email:  emcp...@ptcnh.net

-- 
Best Regards,

Scott Douglas
EMC-PSTC Administrator
email:  emcp...@ptcnh.net

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
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Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL.

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List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
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EMC-PSTC 2008 Year End Statistics

[Scott Douglas]

For calendar year 2008 the EMC-PSTC list posted 2,862 email messages. 
All messages are archived at the IEEE EMC-PSTC Forum on the IEEE Virtual 
Communities web site. You must be a member of the Forum in order to view 
and search the archives. The Active Archive contains messages from the 
current year. The Archive contains the mailing list messages from past 
years 1996 through 2007. We will shortly transfer the Active Archive to 
the past and start a new current year archive.

As always, a big thank you to all of our members for your participation, 
consideration, cooperation. Most of all thank you for sharing your 
knowledge or asking the hard questions to get the rest of us thinking.

Happy New Year!
EMC-PSTC List Admins

EMC-PSTC Subscriber Count by Country

*
*  Country  Subscribers
*  ---  ---
*  Argentina  1
*  Australia  7
*  Canada  11
*  China  2
*  Denmark  5
*  Finland  1
*  France  1
*  Germany  10
*  India  4
*  Ireland  1
*  Israel  3
*  Italy  4
*  Japan  3
*  Luxembourg  1
*  Netherlands  4
*  New Zealand  1
*  Norway  1
*  Poland  2
*  Republic of Korea  2
*  Singapore  3
*  Spain  4
*  Taiwan  5
*  Thailand  1
*  Turkey  1
*  United kingdom  28
*  United states  633


*
* Total number of concealed subscribers:  24
* Total number of users subscribed to the list:739  (non-concealed 
only)
* Total number of countries represented: 26  
(non-concealed only)
* Total number of local host users on the list: 0  
(non-concealed only)
*

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
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Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL.

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