On 9/3/2014 6:23 PM, Richard Nute wrote:
such reviews only address how they evaluate
to a standard. The don't address how the cert house
addresses things that are not included in the standard
such as
True story.
A reputable and well run lab once tested an EUT for RF susceptibility
while I
On 9/4/2014 1:09 PM, Richard Nute wrote:
They use the argument that the NRTL must KNOW that the
equipment is safe through their own measurements. They
cannot be held responsible for tests that are done by
another NRTL.
Or liable for another's.Pay for three approvals and use the one
In message 54097f7a.3030...@earthlink.net, dated Fri, 5 Sep 2014, CR
k...@earthlink.net writes:
Pay for three approvals and use the one that's granted? Ouch!
Yes, that's a danger; some test houses (not in USA, of course) would see
a commercial advantage in being a bit lax, so more clients
received this e-mail in error, please contact the
sender and delete it from your system.
From: sudhakar wasnik 008dfaa51ca2-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG,
Date: 09/04/2014 08:31 PM
Subject:Re: [PSES] Battery certification issue
India is a CB scheme
@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Battery certification issue
I do want to chime in here on a few issues to stop any misconceptions about the
NRTL program. First a disclaimer, in my former life, I worked for an NRTL, I
now work for OSHA in the office that oversees the NRTL
Colleagues,
Well, altho my initial question ran far afield I thank
everyone who chimed in to respond.
The discussion has been quite interesting even tho the
initial question is still left somewhat hanging.
The business/cultural/legal
In message 006201cfc938$cf4f3560$6deda020$@cs.com, dated Fri, 5 Sep
2014, Pete Perkins 0061f3f32d0c-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org writes:
. From my perspective the NA Recognition of component safety provides
a unique building block capability for mfgrs in that the same
components do not need to
In message
f0bbd00eaeb04a47b2cd56eace4fb...@blupr02mb116.namprd02.prod.outlook.com
, dated Wed, 3 Sep 2014, Brian Oconnell oconne...@tamuracorp.com
writes:
There is no mutual recognition requirement among NRTLs,
That seems to be a recipe for chaos. Mutual recognition is a very strong
In message 54079132.7070...@ieee.org, dated Wed, 3 Sep 2014, Richard
Nute ri...@ieee.org writes:
The manufacturer hasn't been damaged by the cert house, so there
is nothing that a lawyer can recover on behalf or the manufacturer.
Well, that's arguable. Time has been lost. Dollars have been
In message
49b036a46b7543609a62f14804058...@bn1pr08mb059.namprd08.prod.outlook.com
, dated Wed, 3 Sep 2014, Nyffenegger, Dave
dave.nyffeneg...@bhemail.com writes:
But the NRTLs are accredited and regularly reviewed/inspected by their
accreditation bodies in order to stay on OSHAs NRTL list
but
they have their own criteria on what is required in this case.
-Original Message-
From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2014 5:27 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Battery certification issue
In message
f0bbd00eaeb04a47b2cd56eace4fb
: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk]
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2014 2:25 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Battery certification issue
In message
49b036a46b7543609a62f14804058...@bn1pr08mb059.namprd08.prod.outlook.com
, dated Wed, 3 Sep 2014, Nyffenegger, Dave
: Wednesday, September 03, 2014 5:27 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Battery certification issue
In message
f0bbd00eaeb04a47b2cd56eace4fb...@blupr02mb116.namprd02.prod.outlook.com
, dated Wed, 3 Sep 2014, Brian Oconnell oconne...@tamuracorp.com
writes:
There is no mutual recognition
In message
92dfdeb9614f468a9db0cb3301143...@bn1pr08mb202.namprd08.prod.outlook.com
, dated Thu, 4 Sep 2014, Tyra, John john_t...@bose.com writes:
Brian is 100% correct in that NRTL's are within their right to reject
certifications and or test reports from other NRTL labs.
There is an NRTL
/CBTL expertise varies greatly depending on which lab you choose.
-Original Message-
From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk]
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2014 2:25 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Battery certification issue
In message
...@bose.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2014 8:01 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Battery certification issue
NRTL's are like doctors. Just because someone has a medical degree does not
mean they are good doctors. Same with NRTL's in my experience. Just because
they are accredited
In message
2CF77CABFB3BC045B2724A8EF4182E7310324D46E0@P3PW5EX1MB13.EX1.SECURESERVER
.NET, dated Thu, 4 Sep 2014, jral...@productsafetyinc.com
jral...@productsafetyinc.com writes:
Don't forget we are dealing with Registered Trademarks. The NRTLs have
complete discretion over who is allowed to
Hi John:
On 9/4/2014 8:52 AM, jral...@productsafetyinc.com wrote:
Is it that NRTLs don't trust each other's data? Or is the pink elephant in the
room revenue and market share??
The issue is revenue (profits).
If the NRTL performs ALL of the tests, the revenue is
higher and the profits
: Re: [PSES] Battery certification issue
Hi John:
On 9/4/2014 8:52 AM, jral...@productsafetyinc.com wrote:
Is it that NRTLs don't trust each other's data? Or is the pink elephant in
the room revenue and market share??
The issue is revenue (profits).
If the NRTL performs ALL of the tests
[mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk]
Sent: Thursday, September 4, 2014 9:40 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Battery certification issue
In message
2CF77CABFB3BC045B2724A8EF4182E7310324D46E0@P3PW5EX1MB13.EX1.SECURESERVER
.NET, dated Thu, 4 Sep 2014, jral...@productsafetyinc.com
jral
In message 004e01cfc86b$6490a290$2db1e7b0$@pctestlab.com, dated Thu, 4
Sep 2014, dward dw...@pctestlab.com writes:
But, if you go to one test house in one country and another test house
in that same country, even in Europe, I am sure you will find that they
do not all 'accept' each others
@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Battery certification issue
Hi John:
On 9/4/2014 8:52 AM, jral...@productsafetyinc.com wrote:
Is it that NRTLs don't trust each other's data? Or is the pink elephant in
the room revenue and market share??
The issue is revenue (profits).
If the NRTL performs ALL
to
harmonized interpretations??
-Original Message-
From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org]
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2014 12:10 PM
To: jral...@productsafetyinc.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Battery certification issue
Hi John:
On 9/4/2014 8:52 AM, jral
In message
CADYqxLChbO-RFt2pTTSRP6Am9+SJcRhwgp7iuDmvtyhPCNo8=a...@mail.gmail.com,
dated Thu, 4 Sep 2014, Kevin Robinson kevinrobinso...@gmail.com
writes:
The NRTL Program applies ONLY to end products used in the workplace.
It does not apply to component power supplies, plastic materials
=AFQjCNEzvrstbhagDtDQkLT1HmOlHk3zug
-Original Message-
From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk]
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2014 2:34 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Battery certification issue
In message 004e01cfc86b$6490a290$2db1e7b0$@pctestlab.com, dated Thu
In message
c8bf8e4aa3b145658432b55fa8948...@bn1pr08mb202.namprd08.prod.outlook.com
, dated Thu, 4 Sep 2014, Tyra, John john_t...@bose.com writes:
India is a member if the CB scheme yet they will not accept CB
certifications and reports for the recent mandatory certification
scheme that was
...@ieee.orgmailto:ri...@ieee.org]
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2014 12:10 PM
To: jral...@productsafetyinc.commailto:jral...@productsafetyinc.com;
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Battery certification issue
Hi John:
On 9/4/2014 8:52 AM,
jral
'recognition' to see if the scoped standard was
on the NRTL list.
Brian
From: Kevin Robinson [mailto:kevinrobinso...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2014 12:15 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Battery certification issue
I do want to chime in here on a few issues
@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Battery certification issue
In message
c8bf8e4aa3b145658432b55fa8948...@bn1pr08mb202.namprd08.prod.outlook.com
, dated Thu, 4 Sep 2014, Tyra, John john_t...@bose.com writes:
India is a member if the CB scheme yet they will not accept CB
certifications
]
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2014 12:15 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Battery certification issue
I do want to chime in here on a few issues to stop any misconceptions
about the NRTL program. First a disclaimer, in my former life, I worked
for an NRTL, I now work
India is a CB scheme member, However the Mandatory (Compulsory) registration
of ITE and A/V products is a national registration scheme. As it is the
national scheme, India insist on in-country testing at BIS( Bureau of Indian
Standards) certified labs. The applicable standard is BIS ...
are applied. I think it is just a politics
and money collection.
Best regards,
Bostjan
From: sudhakar wasnik [mailto:008dfaa51ca2-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org]
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2014 3:27 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Battery certification issue
India is a CB scheme
In message 007501cfc6f7$be0b7f40$3a227dc0$@cs.com, dated Tue, 2 Sep
2014, Pete Perkins 0061f3f32d0c-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org writes:
The cert lab enginer, however, wants full pedigree papers for
the
batteries
citing which clause of which standard?
- which the mfgr feels is not
...@jmwa.demon.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 11:11 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Battery certification issue
In message 007501cfc6f7$be0b7f40$3a227dc0$@cs.com, dated Tue, 2 Sep 2014,
Pete Perkins 0061f3f32d0c-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org writes:
The cert lab
In message
b17a1c7235ca48aeb5ff6a4c66495...@blupr02mb116.namprd02.prod.outlook.com
, dated Wed, 3 Sep 2014, Brian Oconnell oconne...@tamuracorp.com
writes:
Welcome to the North American compliance landscape where the
NRTL/SCC/NOM process allows an agency to cite 'internal' policy and the
recognition requirement
among NRTLs, but some individual agencies have had MRAs for some stuff.
Brian
-Original Message-
From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2014 11:31 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Battery certification issue
On 9/3/2014 11:31 AM, John Woodgate wrote:
In message
b17a1c7235ca48aeb5ff6a4c66495...@blupr02mb116.namprd02.prod.outlook.com
, dated Wed, 3 Sep 2014, Brian Oconnell oconne...@tamuracorp.com
writes:
Welcome to the North American compliance landscape where the
NRTL/SCC/NOM process allows an
: Wednesday, September 03, 2014 6:08 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Battery certification issue
On 9/3/2014 11:31 AM, John Woodgate wrote:
In message
b17a1c7235ca48aeb5ff6a4c66495...@blupr02mb116.namprd02.prod.outlook.c
om , dated Wed, 3 Sep 2014, Brian Oconnell oconne
On 9/3/2014 3:16 PM, Nyffenegger, Dave wrote:
But the NRTLs are accredited and regularly reviewed/inspected by their
accreditation bodies in order to stay on OSHAs NRTL list as I am repeatedly
reminded by the NRTLs otherwise their mark becomes worthless.
-Dave
Yes, but such reviews only
: [PSES] Battery certification issue
On 9/3/2014 3:16 PM, Nyffenegger, Dave wrote:
But the NRTLs are accredited and regularly reviewed/inspected by their
accreditation bodies in order to stay on OSHAs NRTL list as I am repeatedly
reminded by the NRTLs otherwise their mark becomes worthless
PSNet,
Working with a client who is caught in a battery certification issue
during a product certification.
This product uses Ni-metal hydride rechargable batteries.
All the certification focus seemed to have moved to Li based
batteries with not a lot of concern for
-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org]
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 2:49 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Battery certification issue
PSNet,
Working with a client who is caught in a battery certification issue
during a product certification.
This product uses Ni-metal
02, 2014 5:49 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Battery certification issue
PSNet,
Working with a client who is caught in a battery certification issue
during a product certification.
This product uses Ni-metal hydride rechargable batteries.
All
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