Re: [Emc-users] Tool Shape

2014-04-22 Thread Mark Wendt
On Mon, Apr 21, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Marius Liebenberg
mar...@mastercut.co.zawrote:

 Andy
 Have a look at this work. Maybe a good solution.
 https://github.com/bitsnbytes7c8/MegatronDB



What's wrong with using proven, production-style databases that work well
large or small?  MySQL and postgresql are bullet-proof, have a large user
base, and great support.  And are easier to backup than just about any
other free database.  There are software utilities out there to hot backup
both MySQL and postgresql.

Mark
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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Shape

2014-04-22 Thread Mark Wendt
On Mon, Apr 21, 2014 at 2:02 PM, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote:


 Possibly.

 The real work is in working out everywhere that tool data is used, and
 when changes get committed back to the DB.

 The details of the storage can be decided later (if sqlite proves to
 be not ideal).

 --
 atp


Why not leave the choice up to the end user as to which database they'd
prefer to use?

Mark
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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Shape

2014-04-22 Thread andy pugh
On 22 April 2014 10:20, Mark Wendt wendt.m...@gmail.com wrote:

 Why not leave the choice up to the end user as to which database they'd
 prefer to use?

This would work if the query language was 100% identical. I don't know
if it is.

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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Shape

2014-04-22 Thread John Thornton
With MySql you need to install LAMP and with postgresql it looks like 
you have to have a server running and create a user that can log into 
the server or something like that. Sqlite requires non of that. I've 
used MySql for web based PHP applications and Sqlite for local Python 
applications. Sqlite is far more portable IMHO than the other two. I 
don't recall having to do more than have import sqlite3 in the header 
of my python file to use Sqlite. The only catch with Sqlite is how it 
handles numbers and I've used text fields for number entries to work 
around that.

JT

On 4/22/2014 4:19 AM, Mark Wendt wrote:
 On Mon, Apr 21, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Marius Liebenberg
 mar...@mastercut.co.zawrote:

 Andy
 Have a look at this work. Maybe a good solution.
 https://github.com/bitsnbytes7c8/MegatronDB


 What's wrong with using proven, production-style databases that work well
 large or small?  MySQL and postgresql are bullet-proof, have a large user
 base, and great support.  And are easier to backup than just about any
 other free database.  There are software utilities out there to hot backup
 both MySQL and postgresql.

 Mark
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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Shape

2014-04-22 Thread Mark Wendt
On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 6:36 AM, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 22 April 2014 10:20, Mark Wendt wendt.m...@gmail.com wrote:

  Why not leave the choice up to the end user as to which database they'd
  prefer to use?

 This would work if the query language was 100% identical. I don't know
 if it is.

 --
 atp



SQL is SQL.  MySQL. postgresql and SQLite all use, SQL.  The only
differences between the three are in the database engine code and how it
maintains and operates the database.

Mark
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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Shape

2014-04-22 Thread kqt4at5v
On Tue, 22 Apr 2014, Mark Wendt wrote:

 On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 6:36 AM, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 22 April 2014 10:20, Mark Wendt wendt.m...@gmail.com wrote:

 Why not leave the choice up to the end user as to which database they'd
 prefer to use?

 This would work if the query language was 100% identical. I don't know
 if it is.

 --
 atp



 SQL is SQL.  MySQL. postgresql and SQLite all use, SQL.  The only
 differences between the three are in the database engine code and how it
 maintains and operates the database.


MySQL and PostgreSQL are heavy weight rdbm. SQLite is an embedded rdbm. 
There a many of the SQL standards and each of these rdbm attempt to adhere
to parts of one of these standards. None of them are 100% compliant. I 
work with all of these rdbm on a daily basic.

Richard


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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Shape

2014-04-22 Thread Gene Heskett
On Tuesday 22 April 2014 11:22:14 John Thornton did opine:

 With MySql you need to install LAMP and with postgresql it looks like
 you have to have a server running and create a user that can log into
 the server or something like that. Sqlite requires non of that. I've
 used MySql for web based PHP applications and Sqlite for local Python
 applications. Sqlite is far more portable IMHO than the other two. I
 don't recall having to do more than have import sqlite3 in the header
 of my python file to use Sqlite. The only catch with Sqlite is how it
 handles numbers and I've used text fields for number entries to work
 around that.
 
 JT

What sort of contortions are required to fully recover a number stored in 
SQLite as text?  Seems like the unwary, me, could be bitten pretty easily.
 
 On 4/22/2014 4:19 AM, Mark Wendt wrote:
  On Mon, Apr 21, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Marius Liebenberg
  
  mar...@mastercut.co.zawrote:
  Andy
  Have a look at this work. Maybe a good solution.
  https://github.com/bitsnbytes7c8/MegatronDB
  
  What's wrong with using proven, production-style databases that work
  well large or small?  MySQL and postgresql are bullet-proof, have a
  large user base, and great support.  And are easier to backup than
  just about any other free database.  There are software utilities out
  there to hot backup both MySQL and postgresql.
  
  Mark
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Cheers, Gene
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[Emc-users] Motion Synchronization to ext. trigger? (BeagleBone Back + Mesa 7I39, Machinekit?)

2014-04-22 Thread Florian Rist
Hi,
I'm facing a slightly unusual problem and before I head forward into the
wrong direction I'd like to hear what you think about it:

I have to pan a laser scanner (a single rotary axis), so I thought about
using a BLDC (which I happen to have already), a MESA 7I39 BLDC
controller and a BeagleBone Black.

So, first question: Can I hook up the 7I39 to a BeagleBone Black. Well
of course I can, but is this somehow supported already, so that it is
simple to do? Any other driver suggestions?

The bigger problem is that I need to synchronise the motion with a high
'frequency trigger' signal (about 50 Hz). The motion pattern needed is
cyclic an has to look something like his:

 0. move to home position (0°)
 1. wait for low frequency trigger, a hardware or a software signal
 2. within say 10° accelerate and synchronises to the 50Hz trigger
so that the 10° position is reached 20ms after the last trigger
and at a given speed (specified in degree per trigger pulse,
not in seconds as the pulse rate of the trigger may change slightly)
 3. keep on moving at the give speed (in sync with the trigger) for 100°
 4. decelerate an move to a safe position

 5. goto 1. and repeat the process in reverse direction


How could I use LiuxCNC/Machinekit to synchronise the motion to the
external trigger signal and ensure a specific position is reached at a
specific speed in sync with the trigger?

The reason why I want this is to make sure the scanner captures lines at
the same angular positions. The trigger comes from the scanner an
indicates the start of a line capture.

Unfortunately the scan process can not be trigger externally, this would
be much easier, but I only get a signal each time a scan line starts.

Hmm, well. What do you think. Is LiuxCNC right for the job or not.


See you
Flo

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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Shape

2014-04-22 Thread Mark Wendt
On Tuesday 22 April 2014 11:22:14 John Thornton did opine:

 With MySql you need to install LAMP and with postgresql it looks like
 you have to have a server running and create a user that can log into
 the server or something like that. Sqlite requires non of that. I've
 used MySql for web based PHP applications and Sqlite for local Python
 applications. Sqlite is far more portable IMHO than the other two. I
 don't recall having to do more than have import sqlite3 in the header
 of my python file to use Sqlite. The only catch with Sqlite is how it
 handles numbers and I've used text fields for number entries to work
 around that.

 JT_

LAMP is only required  with MySQL if you are running MySQL in conjunction
with a web server and PHP.

Mark
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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Shape

2014-04-22 Thread andy pugh
On 22 April 2014 16:23, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:

 What sort of contortions are required to fully recover a number stored in
 SQLite as text?

Why would you need to?

-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] Motion Synchronization to ext. trigger? (BeagleBone Back + Mesa 7I39, Machinekit?)

2014-04-22 Thread andy pugh
On 22 April 2014 17:24, Florian Rist fr...@fs.tum.de wrote:

 So, first question: Can I hook up the 7I39 to a BeagleBone Black. Well
 of course I can, but is this somehow supported already, so that it is
 simple to do? Any other driver suggestions?

The problem here is that the 7i39 expects a three-phase PWM signal,
and I don't think that the BBB PWM code (if there even is any for the
PRU) has a three-phase mode.

You would have a simpler task either using something that drives Mesa
cards (PCI or parallel) and a Mesa FPGA card, or using the BBB
ethernet to drive a 7i90 (I am not sure this works).

Alternatively the Pico PWM brushless servo amp only needs a single
channel of PWM:
http://www.pico-systems.com/acservo.html

Any number of off-the-shelf drives from the likes of AMC are likely to
be able to drive your motor

Both the Pico and AMC drives are likely to need Hall sensors on the
motor. If you need to you may be able to fake these with the bldc
HAL component.

  0. move to home position (0°)
  1. wait for low frequency trigger, a hardware or a software signal
  2. within say 10° accelerate and synchronises to the 50Hz trigger
 so that the 10° position is reached 20ms after the last trigger
 and at a given speed (specified in degree per trigger pulse,
 not in seconds as the pulse rate of the trigger may change slightly)
  3. keep on moving at the give speed (in sync with the trigger) for 100°
  4. decelerate an move to a safe position

This sounds like fun. It might just work with a G33 or G33.1
synchronised move, or it might need an elaborate system of PIDs and
PLLs.

-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Shape

2014-04-22 Thread Gene Heskett
On Tuesday 22 April 2014 12:38:24 andy pugh did opine:

 On 22 April 2014 16:23, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:
  What sort of contortions are required to fully recover a number stored
  in SQLite as text?
 
 Why would you need to?

Something in the back of my mind, possibly from a past life, tells me there 
are often rounding errors in the recovery unless it is stored as the 
fprintf %ld format.  But the memory is faint, goes back to writing an 
eclipse finder in C probably 20 years back up the log.  I think, but cannot 
prove that when using the julian calendar, the backwards math chokes and 
upchucks all over itself somewhere around may or june 4713 BC.

The original truebasic program I translated it from also suffered a similar 
fate IIRC, as was noted in the BYTE magazine article giving the truebasic 
code listing.  That is apparently the origin time of that calendar, equ to 
the unix 1/1/1970, but it doesn't do negative numbers at all well.

Possible moot for this application if enough digits are stored.  AT least a 
double double (16 or 17 digits) stored as a double float should be ok.

Cheers, Gene
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Re: [Emc-users] Motion Synchronization to ext. trigger? (BeagleBone Back + Mesa 7I39, Machinekit?)

2014-04-22 Thread Florian Rist
Hi Andy,
thanks for you comments.

 Alternatively the Pico PWM brushless servo amp only needs a single
 channel of PWM:
 http://www.pico-systems.com/acservo.html

Ah, I see that would make thinks much easier. And I'm not forced to use
the Beaglbone I could was well you a micro/nanoATX board and a MESA FPGA
card. I'm jut flowing the Beagelbone news with interest and one day I'd
like to use it - this might not be the right project.

 Any number of off-the-shelf drives from the likes of AMC are likely to
 be able to drive your motor
 
 Both the Pico and AMC drives are likely to need Hall sensors on the
 motor. If you need to you may be able to fake these with the bldc
 HAL component.

Oh, the motor has HAL sensors and 1000 CPR encoder and a 1:50 or so
gearbox.


  0. move to home position (0°)
  1. wait for low frequency trigger, a hardware or a software signal
  2. within say 10° accelerate and synchronises to the 50Hz trigger
 so that the 10° position is reached 20ms after the last trigger
 and at a given speed (specified in degree per trigger pulse,
 not in seconds as the pulse rate of the trigger may change slightly)
  3. keep on moving at the give speed (in sync with the trigger) for 100°
  4. decelerate an move to a safe position
 
 This sounds like fun. 

Hmm, not sure if its fun for me... :-)


 It might just work with a G33 or G33.1 synchronised move,

Oh, good idea, instead of syncing to a spindle speed I use my scanner
signal. I'll think about it and see if I understand the idea and can map
my problem to rigid taping.

 or it might need an elaborate system of PIDs and PLLs.

This is what I am afraid of and is even more complicated than a PLL as
not only the phase (in this case speed) has to be correct but also a
position. Is there something like a PLL component in LinuxCNC


See you
Flo

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Re: [Emc-users] Motion Synchronization to ext. trigger? (BeagleBone Back + Mesa 7I39, Machinekit?)

2014-04-22 Thread Dave Caroline
I think this could be done as a geared solution, if you could work
from a phase locked (to 50hz) clock at some higher rate, and use that
as the encoder signal, and the 50hz as a trigger to g76 with suitable
parameters it would then be synchronised and have a flyback (gate the
laser off then), or use g33 or play with the gearing that can be used
with hobbing, see http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Hobbing
(add any logic to suit).

Dave Caroline

On 22/04/2014, Florian Rist fr...@fs.tum.de wrote:
 Hi,
 I'm facing a slightly unusual problem and before I head forward into the
 wrong direction I'd like to hear what you think about it:

 I have to pan a laser scanner (a single rotary axis), so I thought about
 using a BLDC (which I happen to have already), a MESA 7I39 BLDC
 controller and a BeagleBone Black.

 So, first question: Can I hook up the 7I39 to a BeagleBone Black. Well
 of course I can, but is this somehow supported already, so that it is
 simple to do? Any other driver suggestions?

 The bigger problem is that I need to synchronise the motion with a high
 'frequency trigger' signal (about 50 Hz). The motion pattern needed is
 cyclic an has to look something like his:

  0. move to home position (0°)
  1. wait for low frequency trigger, a hardware or a software signal
  2. within say 10° accelerate and synchronises to the 50Hz trigger
 so that the 10° position is reached 20ms after the last trigger
 and at a given speed (specified in degree per trigger pulse,
 not in seconds as the pulse rate of the trigger may change slightly)
  3. keep on moving at the give speed (in sync with the trigger) for 100°
  4. decelerate an move to a safe position

  5. goto 1. and repeat the process in reverse direction


 How could I use LiuxCNC/Machinekit to synchronise the motion to the
 external trigger signal and ensure a specific position is reached at a
 specific speed in sync with the trigger?

 The reason why I want this is to make sure the scanner captures lines at
 the same angular positions. The trigger comes from the scanner an
 indicates the start of a line capture.

 Unfortunately the scan process can not be trigger externally, this would
 be much easier, but I only get a signal each time a scan line starts.

 Hmm, well. What do you think. Is LiuxCNC right for the job or not.


 See you
 Flo

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Re: [Emc-users] Motion Synchronization to ext. trigger? (BeagleBone Back + Mesa 7I39, Machinekit?)

2014-04-22 Thread andy pugh
On 22 April 2014 18:20, Florian Rist fr...@fs.tum.de wrote:

  Is there something like a PLL component in LinuxCNC

Not as far as I know.
Or perhaps the better answer is not yet.

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Re: [Emc-users] Motion Synchronization to ext. trigger? (BeagleBone Back + Mesa 7I39, Machinekit?)

2014-04-22 Thread Florian Rist
Hi Dave

 I think this could be done as a geared solution,

Of couse, I forgot to mention, there will be a reduction gear about 1:50
or 1:100, the motor is not very strong and the scanner ways about 5 kg
and will be mounted eccentrically, so it will create quite some torque
and inertial mass.

 if you could work from a phase locked (to 50hz) clock at some 
 higher rate,

I guess I could build a external PLL to generate more or less any
frequency from the 50 Hz, yes.

 and use that as the encoder signal, and the 50hz 
 as a trigger to g76 with suitable parameters it would then be
 synchronised and have a flyback (gate the laser off then),

I'll look into G76 (I never worked on a CNC lathe, so I haven't used it
yet), but I think I don't get the 'flyback' part.

 or use g33

By the way, can the starting angular position of the thread be specified
in LinuxCNC? The machines here running LinuxCNC do not support rigid
taping (no spindle feedback), so I never used G33.1. On Sinumeric
controls it is possible to set the starting angle of the thread.

 or play with the gearing that can be used
 with hobbing, see http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Hobbing
 (add any logic to suit).

The video link in the Wiki article is broken, I guess it refers to this
video, if so I'll update the articel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhICrb0Tbn4


See you
Flo




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Re: [Emc-users] Motion Synchronization to ext. trigger? (BeagleBone Back + Mesa 7I39, Machinekit?)

2014-04-22 Thread andy pugh
On 22 April 2014 18:38, Florian Rist fr...@fs.tum.de wrote:
 By the way, can the starting angular position of the thread be specified
 in LinuxCNC?

Not directly. For multi-start threads you offset the starting position.

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Re: [Emc-users] Motion Synchronization to ext. trigger? (BeagleBone Back + Mesa 7I39, Machinekit?)

2014-04-22 Thread Florian Rist
Hi Andy

 Not directly. For multi-start threads you offset the starting position.

So two G33.1 calls at the same position and with the same parameters or a Z 
offset of an integer  multiple of the pitch will cut the same thread. In a way 
the thread starts always at 0°.

See you
Flo
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Re: [Emc-users] Motion Synchronization to ext. trigger? (BeagleBone Back + Mesa 7I39, Machinekit?)

2014-04-22 Thread Jon Elson
On 04/22/2014 12:20 PM, Florian Rist wrote:
 Hi Andy,
 thanks for you comments.

 Alternatively the Pico PWM brushless servo amp only needs a single
 channel of PWM:
 http://www.pico-systems.com/acservo.html
 Ah, I see that would make thinks much easier.
You COULD, in theory, run it with just the Direction signal in
synchronous antiphase mode, but this may cause the
filter inductors (and maybe the motor, too) to run hot.
Our servo amp was designed to run in sign-magnitude mode.
That only takes TWO signals, PWM and Direction.

Jon

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