Re: [Emc-users] VFD causing limits to trip. Huh?
On 3/6/2015 6:54 AM, Todd Zuercher wrote: You might be able to get away with just adding a debounce to the limit inputs. That worked for me on a machine that was giving me false trips on the X limit. I suspected mine was a dodgy cable at the time, but it might have been cross talk since it hasn't given any problems since adding the debounce. VFDs are supposed to be directly connected to the 3 phase motors, but I wonder if it's possible to add capacitors or something to smooth out the output. So far no issues running the early 1940's GE 3HP in my Monarch 12CK with a VFD. I never vary the speed from 60Hz. If it fries it *then* I'll figure out how to remove the massive thing from the base. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] VFD causing limits to trip. Huh?
On 3/6/2015 1:52 PM, Bruce Layne wrote: The LCD is on an articulated arm, a little above eye level, mounted to the side of the large nonmetallic enclosure. The VFD is mounted in the steel electrical enclosure about five feet lower. The cables all exit through cable clamps in holes on the bottom of the electrical enclosure. I really need to take the digital storage oscilloscope over there to quantify the noise problem. I mostly designed it with EMI in mind to prevent problems, then did a couple of quick and dirty obvious fixes (better cable routing, ferrite magic beans) that seemed likely to help but didn't. It's time to get serious, figure out the real issue and then fix it. My ears perked up when I saw this thread. I was hoping someone would fix my problem for me. :-) Magnetic interference shouldn't directly bother the LCD panel like it can a cathode ray tube. Inducing currents into the display cable via radio or magnetic interference is where you'll get the problems. The internal electronics of LCD monitors are usually quite well shielded, though more likely to contain interference rather than block it out. Could try a tinfoil hat approach. ;-) Wrap the display cable with aluminum tape then ground the ends to the not sticky side. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] VFD causing limits to trip. Huh?
On 03/06/2015 07:19 PM, Gregg Eshelman wrote: On 3/6/2015 6:54 AM, Todd Zuercher wrote: You might be able to get away with just adding a debounce to the limit inputs. That worked for me on a machine that was giving me false trips on the X limit. I suspected mine was a dodgy cable at the time, but it might have been cross talk since it hasn't given any problems since adding the debounce. VFDs are supposed to be directly connected to the 3 phase motors, but I wonder if it's possible to add capacitors or something to smooth out the output. No, you don't want capacitors directly on the output of the VFD. The sharp, 400V edges will cause high currents, and either pop the capacitors or the output transistors. What you want is a line filter module at the power input, and if that isn't good enough, then a set of 3 inductors on the output to the motor. I found a line filter on the line input cleared up some intermittent problems on my mill. I used a commercial line filter module. Jon -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] VFD causing limits to trip. Huh?
Zuercher, If Gene is right, then there is a really big loop area. Ether the leads to the motor / drive are taking different paths or the is a big ground loop some place. You could try moving the leads around to confirm what Gene is suggesting. If this is the case, check for ground loops. If there aren't any, then you should consider rearranging you wiring. N. Christopher Perry On Mar 6, 2015, at 3:14 PM, Charles Steinkuehler char...@steinkuehler.net wrote: On 3/6/2015 1:43 PM, Todd Zuercher wrote: What sort of screen? and where is it in relation to the VFD? We have a router with 2 VFDs mounted on the outside of a wooden cabinet, and they wreak havoc on the CRT display inside the cabinet when they accelerate/decelerate (about 6 inches away). It is fine while its running, just when stopping and starting. I was thinking I should make some sort of metal shield to mount between them, but its been that way for more than 15 years without any thing more than this aesthetic problem so it hasn't been real high on my to do list. I know this one: You need a Mu-Metal shield. The VFD is throwing enough current around a big enough loop it's generating magnetic fields (*NOT* EMI!) and distorting the video display. It happens on speed changes because you're drawing lots of current. It should also happen if you load the motor with a deep cut and push it close to it's rated power level. Really nice broadcast studio monitors are magnetically shielded to avoid this, but just about any other CRT monitor won't be. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu-metal And yes, a magnetic field _is_ a form of EMI (Electro Magnetic Interference), but it's at a _really_ low frequency and thus is generally not affected by the typical EMI shielding practices that are mostly concerned with very high frequency effects. You might have good luck simply turning the VFD to a different orientation (try rotating it on it's side or back and see if the problem gets any better or worse). -- Charles Steinkuehler char...@steinkuehler.net -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] VFD causing limits to trip. Huh?
Hi Russel, I got exactly the same troubles describes with the VFDs creating a lot of perturbation. Aspiration was also making perturbation for me. Thankfully at my work place we have experts on EMI and Stephen advices are what you need to follow. In my case, to solve it I had to shield the cable between the VFD and the spindle and physically separate them (away from the cable chain in my case). Limits and touch probes are now with shielded cables and ferrites. Also Shields are touching the metallic part of the connectors so as to be linked to the electronic rack. Between electronic rack, VFD generator and the machine I have metallic braids (flat and large). Linking the axis together with this braids might have helped also (and not relaying on the balls from the guiding rails). I also have a metallic plate which shield the control computer from the VFD. Good luck solving this, sometimes it work for 20 minutes without tripping a limit, but there is hope even with Chinese parts, now, for me the setup is reliable. Cheers, -- Yves Watier 2015-03-06 13:36 GMT+01:00 Stephen Dubovsky smdubov...@gmail.com: EMI. VFDs generate lots of it. You're likely getting lots of noise coupled into your limit switch cabling. Shield the vfd wires if possible. Running in a shielded single cable is probably best. Separate the motor and switch cables as much as possible too. On March 6, 2015 6:56:08 AM EST, russ...@lls.lls.com wrote: I've just fitted one of them there 'Chinese' 2.2kW watercooled motors with a Huanyang VFD as a second spindle on my mill. Last night doing some pocketing, when the cutter got into the 'meat' of the cut (6mm carbide 2 flute, 3mm DOC), Linuxcnc (v2.6.7) tripped with Axis 2 limit switch. This was unexpected as I was nowhere near the Z-axis limit switches so I checked the connections and started the job again and it did exactly the same thing again in the same place! Just for fun, I reduced the DOC, tried again and the same thing happened in the same place (about 20 seconds into the job). H The VFD is 1 foot away from the limit switch wiring, and the connection from the VFD to the motor is shielded and grounded at the VFD end. I'm controlling the VFD with hy_vfd over RS485. The limit switches (normal microswitches bolted to the column) are wired to a Mesa 7i76 with 12V field power and have not played up before. I did an 'air-cut' and that ran well past the place it was consistently failing. I commented out: #net both-home-z = axis.2.home-sw-in #net both-home-z = axis.2.neg-lim-sw-in #net both-home-z = axis.2.pos-lim-sw-in in my Mill.hal file and the job ran to the end. Axis 0 and 1 limits were left unchanged. I ran out of time to experiment much further but I'm struggling to see how the VFD could trip a simple limit switch when it's getting a bit loaded up (the spindle was only pulling ~1amp according to hy_vfd and it's rated for 8). I don't think it was simple vibration as I'd been fly cutting with my normal spindle shortly before and that didn't trip anything. Any ideas what might cause this? -- Regards, Russell | Russell Brown | MAIL: russ...@lls.com PHONE: 01780 471800 | | Lady Lodge Systems | WWW Work: http://www.lls.com | | Peterborough, England | WWW Play: http://www.ruffle.me.uk | -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly
Re: [Emc-users] Google Summer of Code students wanted!
someone had started this... http://www.bpuk.org/linuxcnc/ sam On 3/6/2015 7:45 AM, Ed wrote: On 03/05/2015 10:21 PM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote: The LinuxCNC project has been approved for Google Summer of Code, under the BRL-CAD umbrella organization. If you are an eligible student, and you'd like to get paid to work on LinuxCNC this summer, check this out: http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/homepage/google/gsoc2015 Some possible projects are listed on the BRL-CAD GSoC project ideas wiki, but feel free to propose other projects and we can discuss it: http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas To make Linuxcnc more usable by the industrial crowd it needs G70,71,and 72 implemented for the lathe. When I get a complex shape with a lot of metal to be removed I usually go to my Fanuc 6T controlled machine. I prefer Linuxcnc for most things, esp tool setups and part touchoff. Ed. Here's the BRL-CAD student checklist, which describes the next steps to take, if you're interested: http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Checklist -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] VFD causing limits to trip. Huh?
Wiring to the switch is damaged somewhere? On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 6:56 AM, Russell Brown russ...@lls.lls.com wrote: I've just fitted one of them there 'Chinese' 2.2kW watercooled motors with a Huanyang VFD as a second spindle on my mill. Last night doing some pocketing, when the cutter got into the 'meat' of the cut (6mm carbide 2 flute, 3mm DOC), Linuxcnc (v2.6.7) tripped with Axis 2 limit switch. This was unexpected as I was nowhere near the Z-axis limit switches so I checked the connections and started the job again and it did exactly the same thing again in the same place! Just for fun, I reduced the DOC, tried again and the same thing happened in the same place (about 20 seconds into the job). H The VFD is 1 foot away from the limit switch wiring, and the connection from the VFD to the motor is shielded and grounded at the VFD end. I'm controlling the VFD with hy_vfd over RS485. The limit switches (normal microswitches bolted to the column) are wired to a Mesa 7i76 with 12V field power and have not played up before. I did an 'air-cut' and that ran well past the place it was consistently failing. I commented out: #net both-home-z = axis.2.home-sw-in #net both-home-z = axis.2.neg-lim-sw-in #net both-home-z = axis.2.pos-lim-sw-in in my Mill.hal file and the job ran to the end. Axis 0 and 1 limits were left unchanged. I ran out of time to experiment much further but I'm struggling to see how the VFD could trip a simple limit switch when it's getting a bit loaded up (the spindle was only pulling ~1amp according to hy_vfd and it's rated for 8). I don't think it was simple vibration as I'd been fly cutting with my normal spindle shortly before and that didn't trip anything. Any ideas what might cause this? -- Regards, Russell | Russell Brown | MAIL: russ...@lls.com PHONE: 01780 471800 | | Lady Lodge Systems | WWW Work: http://www.lls.com | | Peterborough, England | WWW Play: http://www.ruffle.me.uk | -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Google Summer of Code students wanted!
On 03/05/2015 10:21 PM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote: The LinuxCNC project has been approved for Google Summer of Code, under the BRL-CAD umbrella organization. If you are an eligible student, and you'd like to get paid to work on LinuxCNC this summer, check this out: http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/homepage/google/gsoc2015 Some possible projects are listed on the BRL-CAD GSoC project ideas wiki, but feel free to propose other projects and we can discuss it: http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas To make Linuxcnc more usable by the industrial crowd it needs G70,71,and 72 implemented for the lathe. When I get a complex shape with a lot of metal to be removed I usually go to my Fanuc 6T controlled machine. I prefer Linuxcnc for most things, esp tool setups and part touchoff. Ed. Here's the BRL-CAD student checklist, which describes the next steps to take, if you're interested: http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Checklist -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] VFD causing limits to trip. Huh?
I've just fitted one of them there 'Chinese' 2.2kW watercooled motors with a Huanyang VFD as a second spindle on my mill. Last night doing some pocketing, when the cutter got into the 'meat' of the cut (6mm carbide 2 flute, 3mm DOC), Linuxcnc (v2.6.7) tripped with Axis 2 limit switch. This was unexpected as I was nowhere near the Z-axis limit switches so I checked the connections and started the job again and it did exactly the same thing again in the same place! Just for fun, I reduced the DOC, tried again and the same thing happened in the same place (about 20 seconds into the job). H The VFD is 1 foot away from the limit switch wiring, and the connection from the VFD to the motor is shielded and grounded at the VFD end. I'm controlling the VFD with hy_vfd over RS485. The limit switches (normal microswitches bolted to the column) are wired to a Mesa 7i76 with 12V field power and have not played up before. I did an 'air-cut' and that ran well past the place it was consistently failing. I commented out: #net both-home-z = axis.2.home-sw-in #net both-home-z = axis.2.neg-lim-sw-in #net both-home-z = axis.2.pos-lim-sw-in in my Mill.hal file and the job ran to the end. Axis 0 and 1 limits were left unchanged. I ran out of time to experiment much further but I'm struggling to see how the VFD could trip a simple limit switch when it's getting a bit loaded up (the spindle was only pulling ~1amp according to hy_vfd and it's rated for 8). I don't think it was simple vibration as I'd been fly cutting with my normal spindle shortly before and that didn't trip anything. Any ideas what might cause this? -- Regards, Russell | Russell Brown | MAIL: russ...@lls.com PHONE: 01780 471800 | | Lady Lodge Systems | WWW Work: http://www.lls.com | | Peterborough, England | WWW Play: http://www.ruffle.me.uk | -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] VFD causing limits to trip. Huh?
EMI. VFDs generate lots of it. You're likely getting lots of noise coupled into your limit switch cabling. Shield the vfd wires if possible. Running in a shielded single cable is probably best. Separate the motor and switch cables as much as possible too. On March 6, 2015 6:56:08 AM EST, russ...@lls.lls.com wrote: I've just fitted one of them there 'Chinese' 2.2kW watercooled motors with a Huanyang VFD as a second spindle on my mill. Last night doing some pocketing, when the cutter got into the 'meat' of the cut (6mm carbide 2 flute, 3mm DOC), Linuxcnc (v2.6.7) tripped with Axis 2 limit switch. This was unexpected as I was nowhere near the Z-axis limit switches so I checked the connections and started the job again and it did exactly the same thing again in the same place! Just for fun, I reduced the DOC, tried again and the same thing happened in the same place (about 20 seconds into the job). H The VFD is 1 foot away from the limit switch wiring, and the connection from the VFD to the motor is shielded and grounded at the VFD end. I'm controlling the VFD with hy_vfd over RS485. The limit switches (normal microswitches bolted to the column) are wired to a Mesa 7i76 with 12V field power and have not played up before. I did an 'air-cut' and that ran well past the place it was consistently failing. I commented out: #net both-home-z = axis.2.home-sw-in #net both-home-z = axis.2.neg-lim-sw-in #net both-home-z = axis.2.pos-lim-sw-in in my Mill.hal file and the job ran to the end. Axis 0 and 1 limits were left unchanged. I ran out of time to experiment much further but I'm struggling to see how the VFD could trip a simple limit switch when it's getting a bit loaded up (the spindle was only pulling ~1amp according to hy_vfd and it's rated for 8). I don't think it was simple vibration as I'd been fly cutting with my normal spindle shortly before and that didn't trip anything. Any ideas what might cause this? -- Regards, Russell | Russell Brown | MAIL: russ...@lls.com PHONE: 01780 471800 | | Lady Lodge Systems | WWW Work: http://www.lls.com | | Peterborough, England | WWW Play: http://www.ruffle.me.uk | -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] VFD causing limits to trip. Huh?
You could also put a reactor between the motor and drive. Might be a good idea to put a line filter on the power leads to the drive too. I'm not a fan of shielding, but it's certainly an option as well. N. Christopher Perry On Mar 6, 2015, at 7:36 AM, Stephen Dubovsky smdubov...@gmail.com wrote: EMI. VFDs generate lots of it. You're likely getting lots of noise coupled into your limit switch cabling. Shield the vfd wires if possible. Running in a shielded single cable is probably best. Separate the motor and switch cables as much as possible too. On March 6, 2015 6:56:08 AM EST, russ...@lls.lls.com wrote: I've just fitted one of them there 'Chinese' 2.2kW watercooled motors with a Huanyang VFD as a second spindle on my mill. Last night doing some pocketing, when the cutter got into the 'meat' of the cut (6mm carbide 2 flute, 3mm DOC), Linuxcnc (v2.6.7) tripped with Axis 2 limit switch. This was unexpected as I was nowhere near the Z-axis limit switches so I checked the connections and started the job again and it did exactly the same thing again in the same place! Just for fun, I reduced the DOC, tried again and the same thing happened in the same place (about 20 seconds into the job). H The VFD is 1 foot away from the limit switch wiring, and the connection from the VFD to the motor is shielded and grounded at the VFD end. I'm controlling the VFD with hy_vfd over RS485. The limit switches (normal microswitches bolted to the column) are wired to a Mesa 7i76 with 12V field power and have not played up before. I did an 'air-cut' and that ran well past the place it was consistently failing. I commented out: #net both-home-z = axis.2.home-sw-in #net both-home-z = axis.2.neg-lim-sw-in #net both-home-z = axis.2.pos-lim-sw-in in my Mill.hal file and the job ran to the end. Axis 0 and 1 limits were left unchanged. I ran out of time to experiment much further but I'm struggling to see how the VFD could trip a simple limit switch when it's getting a bit loaded up (the spindle was only pulling ~1amp according to hy_vfd and it's rated for 8). I don't think it was simple vibration as I'd been fly cutting with my normal spindle shortly before and that didn't trip anything. Any ideas what might cause this? -- Regards, Russell | Russell Brown | MAIL: russ...@lls.com PHONE: 01780 471800 | | Lady Lodge Systems | WWW Work: http://www.lls.com | | Peterborough, England | WWW Play: http://www.ruffle.me.uk | -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] VFD causing limits to trip. Huh?
You might be able to get away with just adding a debounce to the limit inputs. That worked for me on a machine that was giving me false trips on the X limit. I suspected mine was a dodgy cable at the time, but it might have been cross talk since it hasn't given any problems since adding the debounce. - Original Message - From: N. Christopher Perry vwpe...@comcast.net To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Friday, March 6, 2015 8:10:55 AM Subject: Re: [Emc-users] VFD causing limits to trip. Huh? You could also put a reactor between the motor and drive. Might be a good idea to put a line filter on the power leads to the drive too. I'm not a fan of shielding, but it's certainly an option as well. N. Christopher Perry On Mar 6, 2015, at 7:36 AM, Stephen Dubovsky smdubov...@gmail.com wrote: EMI. VFDs generate lots of it. You're likely getting lots of noise coupled into your limit switch cabling. Shield the vfd wires if possible. Running in a shielded single cable is probably best. Separate the motor and switch cables as much as possible too. On March 6, 2015 6:56:08 AM EST, russ...@lls.lls.com wrote: I've just fitted one of them there 'Chinese' 2.2kW watercooled motors with a Huanyang VFD as a second spindle on my mill. Last night doing some pocketing, when the cutter got into the 'meat' of the cut (6mm carbide 2 flute, 3mm DOC), Linuxcnc (v2.6.7) tripped with Axis 2 limit switch. This was unexpected as I was nowhere near the Z-axis limit switches so I checked the connections and started the job again and it did exactly the same thing again in the same place! Just for fun, I reduced the DOC, tried again and the same thing happened in the same place (about 20 seconds into the job). H The VFD is 1 foot away from the limit switch wiring, and the connection from the VFD to the motor is shielded and grounded at the VFD end. I'm controlling the VFD with hy_vfd over RS485. The limit switches (normal microswitches bolted to the column) are wired to a Mesa 7i76 with 12V field power and have not played up before. I did an 'air-cut' and that ran well past the place it was consistently failing. I commented out: #net both-home-z = axis.2.home-sw-in #net both-home-z = axis.2.neg-lim-sw-in #net both-home-z = axis.2.pos-lim-sw-in in my Mill.hal file and the job ran to the end. Axis 0 and 1 limits were left unchanged. I ran out of time to experiment much further but I'm struggling to see how the VFD could trip a simple limit switch when it's getting a bit loaded up (the spindle was only pulling ~1amp according to hy_vfd and it's rated for 8). I don't think it was simple vibration as I'd been fly cutting with my normal spindle shortly before and that didn't trip anything. Any ideas what might cause this? -- Regards, Russell | Russell Brown | MAIL: russ...@lls.com PHONE: 01780 471800 | | Lady Lodge Systems | WWW Work: http://www.lls.com | | Peterborough, England | WWW Play: http://www.ruffle.me.uk | -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___
Re: [Emc-users] VFD causing limits to trip. Huh?
VFDs and AC servo drives oftentimes create noise on the incoming AC power lines to the drives.That noise can cause interference issues with system electronics. I recommend you purchase an incoming line filter to keep the noise from backing up into your AC power line. This is a filter I used on a recent installation. Put this as close to the drive/s power input connection as practical. http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Drives/AC_Drive_%28VFD%29_Spare_Parts_-a-_Accessories/GS_EMI_-z-_RF_Filters/EMI_-z-_RF_Filters_%28All_GS_Drives%29/20DRT1W3S There are cheaper filters available but I know that this one works. Dave On 3/6/2015 6:56 AM, Russell Brown wrote: I've just fitted one of them there 'Chinese' 2.2kW watercooled motors with a Huanyang VFD as a second spindle on my mill. Last night doing some pocketing, when the cutter got into the 'meat' of the cut (6mm carbide 2 flute, 3mm DOC), Linuxcnc (v2.6.7) tripped with Axis 2 limit switch. This was unexpected as I was nowhere near the Z-axis limit switches so I checked the connections and started the job again and it did exactly the same thing again in the same place! Just for fun, I reduced the DOC, tried again and the same thing happened in the same place (about 20 seconds into the job). H The VFD is 1 foot away from the limit switch wiring, and the connection from the VFD to the motor is shielded and grounded at the VFD end. I'm controlling the VFD with hy_vfd over RS485. The limit switches (normal microswitches bolted to the column) are wired to a Mesa 7i76 with 12V field power and have not played up before. I did an 'air-cut' and that ran well past the place it was consistently failing. I commented out: #net both-home-z = axis.2.home-sw-in #net both-home-z = axis.2.neg-lim-sw-in #net both-home-z = axis.2.pos-lim-sw-in in my Mill.hal file and the job ran to the end. Axis 0 and 1 limits were left unchanged. I ran out of time to experiment much further but I'm struggling to see how the VFD could trip a simple limit switch when it's getting a bit loaded up (the spindle was only pulling ~1amp according to hy_vfd and it's rated for 8). I don't think it was simple vibration as I'd been fly cutting with my normal spindle shortly before and that didn't trip anything. Any ideas what might cause this? --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] VFD causing limits to trip. Huh?
On 6 Mar 2015, at 12:56, Russell Brown russ...@lls.lls.com wrote: Any ideas what might cause this? Almost certainly EMI. An input filter for the VFD can help. Check eBay for Rasmi they are not expensive. If your mill is not downstream of an RCD then I have one spare you can have. Otherwise make sure you get one with 3mA leakage current. (This point is why I have a spare) Note that these go on the input to the VFD to keep noise out of the mains wiring. But the really simple solution is likely to be the HAL debounce component. 20mS delay in a limit switch isn't critical. -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] VFD causing limits to trip. Huh?
My 2'X4' CNC router has a 2.2 KW water cooled spindle and VFD - the typical Chinese kit off eBay. http://www.ebay.com/itm/221354796303 I'm getting noise on the video signal that usually causes annoying screen jitter but sometimes blanks out the screen entirely, which can be a bit disconcerting when running a CNC machine. That sounds like RFI, but I used good shielded cable between the VFD and spindle motor. The shield is grounded at the VFD, and I think I upgraded to a better quality shielded video cable, so I then assumed the noise was leaking out as conducted (as opposed to radiated) interference on the VFD's power leads, although I haven't verified that with the digital storage oscilloscope. I installed some toroids as RF chokes on the incoming VFD power leads and it seemed to help a tiny bit. I almost never use that machine, so this problem wasn't high on my To Do list, but I'm building a 2'X2' CNC router for me (the larger machine was mostly for my brother), and I'd like to avoid replicating the problem on the second CNC router build. I just ordered a 14A Rasmi power line input filter on eBay for the VFD. It cost US$16 delivered. http://www.ebay.com/itm/290958532530 Hat tip to Andy for the recommendation. On 03/06/2015 12:43 PM, Andy Pugh wrote: Almost certainly EMI. An input filter for the VFD can help. Check eBay for Rasmi they are not expensive. -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] VFD causing limits to trip. Huh?
What sort of screen? and where is it in relation to the VFD? We have a router with 2 VFDs mounted on the outside of a wooden cabinet, and they wreak havoc on the CRT display inside the cabinet when they accelerate/decelerate (about 6 inches away). It is fine while its running, just when stopping and starting. I was thinking I should make some sort of metal shield to mount between them, but its been that way for more than 15 years without any thing more than this aesthetic problem so it hasn't been real high on my to do list. - Original Message - From: Bruce Layne linux...@thinkingdevices.com To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Friday, March 6, 2015 1:58:09 PM Subject: Re: [Emc-users] VFD causing limits to trip. Huh? My 2'X4' CNC router has a 2.2 KW water cooled spindle and VFD - the typical Chinese kit off eBay. http://www.ebay.com/itm/221354796303 I'm getting noise on the video signal that usually causes annoying screen jitter but sometimes blanks out the screen entirely, which can be a bit disconcerting when running a CNC machine. That sounds like RFI, but I used good shielded cable between the VFD and spindle motor. The shield is grounded at the VFD, and I think I upgraded to a better quality shielded video cable, so I then assumed the noise was leaking out as conducted (as opposed to radiated) interference on the VFD's power leads, although I haven't verified that with the digital storage oscilloscope. I installed some toroids as RF chokes on the incoming VFD power leads and it seemed to help a tiny bit. I almost never use that machine, so this problem wasn't high on my To Do list, but I'm building a 2'X2' CNC router for me (the larger machine was mostly for my brother), and I'd like to avoid replicating the problem on the second CNC router build. I just ordered a 14A Rasmi power line input filter on eBay for the VFD. It cost US$16 delivered. http://www.ebay.com/itm/290958532530 Hat tip to Andy for the recommendation. On 03/06/2015 12:43 PM, Andy Pugh wrote: Almost certainly EMI. An input filter for the VFD can help. Check eBay for Rasmi they are not expensive. -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] VFD causing limits to trip. Huh?
That's the big brother of the one I picked. N. Christopher Perry On Mar 6, 2015, at 12:34 PM, Dave Cole linuxcncro...@gmail.com wrote: VFDs and AC servo drives oftentimes create noise on the incoming AC power lines to the drives.That noise can cause interference issues with system electronics. I recommend you purchase an incoming line filter to keep the noise from backing up into your AC power line. This is a filter I used on a recent installation. Put this as close to the drive/s power input connection as practical. http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Drives/AC_Drive_%28VFD%29_Spare_Parts_-a-_Accessories/GS_EMI_-z-_RF_Filters/EMI_-z-_RF_Filters_%28All_GS_Drives%29/20DRT1W3S There are cheaper filters available but I know that this one works. Dave On 3/6/2015 6:56 AM, Russell Brown wrote: I've just fitted one of them there 'Chinese' 2.2kW watercooled motors with a Huanyang VFD as a second spindle on my mill. Last night doing some pocketing, when the cutter got into the 'meat' of the cut (6mm carbide 2 flute, 3mm DOC), Linuxcnc (v2.6.7) tripped with Axis 2 limit switch. This was unexpected as I was nowhere near the Z-axis limit switches so I checked the connections and started the job again and it did exactly the same thing again in the same place! Just for fun, I reduced the DOC, tried again and the same thing happened in the same place (about 20 seconds into the job). H The VFD is 1 foot away from the limit switch wiring, and the connection from the VFD to the motor is shielded and grounded at the VFD end. I'm controlling the VFD with hy_vfd over RS485. The limit switches (normal microswitches bolted to the column) are wired to a Mesa 7i76 with 12V field power and have not played up before. I did an 'air-cut' and that ran well past the place it was consistently failing. I commented out: #net both-home-z = axis.2.home-sw-in #net both-home-z = axis.2.neg-lim-sw-in #net both-home-z = axis.2.pos-lim-sw-in in my Mill.hal file and the job ran to the end. Axis 0 and 1 limits were left unchanged. I ran out of time to experiment much further but I'm struggling to see how the VFD could trip a simple limit switch when it's getting a bit loaded up (the spindle was only pulling ~1amp according to hy_vfd and it's rated for 8). I don't think it was simple vibration as I'd been fly cutting with my normal spindle shortly before and that didn't trip anything. Any ideas what might cause this? --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] VFD causing limits to trip. Huh?
On 3/6/2015 1:43 PM, Todd Zuercher wrote: What sort of screen? and where is it in relation to the VFD? We have a router with 2 VFDs mounted on the outside of a wooden cabinet, and they wreak havoc on the CRT display inside the cabinet when they accelerate/decelerate (about 6 inches away). It is fine while its running, just when stopping and starting. I was thinking I should make some sort of metal shield to mount between them, but its been that way for more than 15 years without any thing more than this aesthetic problem so it hasn't been real high on my to do list. I know this one: You need a Mu-Metal shield. The VFD is throwing enough current around a big enough loop it's generating magnetic fields (*NOT* EMI!) and distorting the video display. It happens on speed changes because you're drawing lots of current. It should also happen if you load the motor with a deep cut and push it close to it's rated power level. Really nice broadcast studio monitors are magnetically shielded to avoid this, but just about any other CRT monitor won't be. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu-metal And yes, a magnetic field _is_ a form of EMI (Electro Magnetic Interference), but it's at a _really_ low frequency and thus is generally not affected by the typical EMI shielding practices that are mostly concerned with very high frequency effects. You might have good luck simply turning the VFD to a different orientation (try rotating it on it's side or back and see if the problem gets any better or worse). -- Charles Steinkuehler char...@steinkuehler.net signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] A shot in the dark
Hi all, I will close this thread out. I was able to get the manuals through BK. Apparently what you have to do (I won't get a chance to try it until Monday) is hold two buttons on controller boot, which will put it into program mode. Eric Just a shot in the dark to see if anyone has run into one of these controllers. I am in the process of re-controlling several machines using AMC controllers (from Burny Kalikburn, not Advanced Motion Control), starting with one using the AMC3C controller. Unfortunately, another machine uses the AMC-B controller (see: http://www.burny.com/amc-b.shtml) and has stopped working. It will be a couple of months before we can get to this one. As best I can tell, it looks like it has lost its configuration, because all of the hardware (encoders, motors, wiring, etc.) checks out, and does in some fashion work, just not properly. PID values are way off, it does not home in the correct direction, etc. Thus it seems like the controller needs to have the configuration flashed. I have the doc on how to do this on the 3C controller, which is a pedestal controller and has a switch to put it into program mode for flashing. I do not see an analogous switch on the AMC-B controller. I have found the flash program, the required ini and hex files, have a serial connection, etc. but it will not flash. There seems to be one guy in the world who still supports this controller and he does not seem to answer his phone or email. Any chance anyone here has ever run into one of these and knows the secret sauce to flashing it, or better yet, know where I can find a manual for it? I have not as yet been successful with Burny Kaliburn in getting a manual. I saw a post on CNC Zone about someone else having a similar problem, but with a different controller. Thanks, Eric http://t.signalequattro.com/e1t/o/5/f18dQhb0S7ks8dDMPbW2n0x6l2B9gXrN7sKj6v4 LCQRN7fcnk8RJ6s6N8rBF7Rd3_yKW18Chwm1k1H6H0?si=6453247850577920pi=2e907301-4 f9e-4bc1-906a-4f90d1e18f37 -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] VFD causing limits to trip. Huh?
On 03/06/2015 02:43 PM, Todd Zuercher wrote: What sort of screen? 20 LCD. Dell, I think. Where is it in relation to the VFD? The LCD is on an articulated arm, a little above eye level, mounted to the side of the large nonmetallic enclosure. The VFD is mounted in the steel electrical enclosure about five feet lower. The cables all exit through cable clamps in holes on the bottom of the electrical enclosure. I really need to take the digital storage oscilloscope over there to quantify the noise problem. I mostly designed it with EMI in mind to prevent problems, then did a couple of quick and dirty obvious fixes (better cable routing, ferrite magic beans) that seemed likely to help but didn't. It's time to get serious, figure out the real issue and then fix it. My ears perked up when I saw this thread. I was hoping someone would fix my problem for me. :-) -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] ProLight 1000 mill refit.
Anyone done a refit on a Light Machines Corporation ProLight 1000 mill? Looks like it won't be coming with the big, black controller box so a control upgrade is in order. Hopefully the motor drivers are separate and in the mill itself. Then there's the spindle speed control, which ran on a separate cable from the control card in the PC. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
