[Emc-users] linuxcnc-features-master

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings all;

I have, I believe, after going over in "wiring up" procedure in the 
README.md file, done everything it seems to call for.  But linuxcnc 
falls over while initializing.

Heres a paste from the cli:
gene@coyote:~/linuxcnc/configs/sim.axis$ linuxcnc -l
LINUXCNC - 2.7.3
Machine configuration directory is '/home/gene/linuxcnc/configs/sim.axis'
Machine configuration file is 'axis.ini'
Starting LinuxCNC...
Found file(REL): ./core_sim.hal
Note: Using POSIX non-realtime
Found file(REL): ./sim_spindle_encoder.hal
Found file(REL): ./axis_manualtoolchange.hal
Found file(REL): ./simulated_home.hal
Found file(REL): ./check_constraints.hal
task: main loop took 0.011922 seconds
task: main loop took 0.012521 seconds

(gladevcp:14154): libglade-WARNING **: could not find glade 
file 'features.ui'
 GLADE VCP ERROR:With xml file: features.ui : could not create 
GladeXML object
:0: gladevcp exited without becoming ready
Embeded tab command "halcmd loadusr -Wn gladevcp gladevcp -c gladevcp -x 
77594776 -U --catalog=mill features.ui" exited with error: 1
Shutting down and cleaning up LinuxCNC...
task: 1377 cycles, min=0.18, max=0.012521, avg=0.001059, 2 latency 
excursions (> 10x expected cycle time of 0.001000s)
Note: Using POSIX non-realtime
LinuxCNC terminated with an error.  You can find more information in the 
log:
/home/gene/linuxcnc_debug.txt
and
/home/gene/linuxcnc_print.txt
as well as in the output of the shell command 'dmesg' and in the terminal

>From that, can anyone tell me where I might have a typu?  I have gone 
back a second time, finding 2 spelling errors the 2nd time.  But not a 
third time.  Partial problem is that the README.md file appears to be 
stripped from an html encoded file as some surviving evidence of html in 
it.

Does Nick have a web page where I might be able to read it first hand?  
Never mind, I'll google.

It does appear to run ok if ./features.py --catalog=mill is exec'd.  So 
the error is someplace in my "wiring" :)

Thanks everybody.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP

[Bertho Stultiens]

On 01/04/2016 07:34 PM, Mark Johnsen wrote:
> Bertho - What you state about the different power supplies is a fear of
> mine as I have a +-15vdc Power supply for the Op-amps for the West-Amp
> servos, an open frame type 24Vdc power supply, plus the 5vdc power supply I
> added for the 7i77.

Many PSUs just makes it harder and the chances of "doing it wrong" a lot
larger as well as inadvertent (read: potentially disastrous) things
happen when you start to fiddle in the wiring to test one or another
thing...


> Also, I don't have my PC in a PC case, open frame w/ the 5i25 held in by
> friction (i know, I don't like this either -  need to bend a clamp).  But,
> the PC power supply also could factor into the ground loop equation.  I
> have mine mounted to the door of my enclosure.

The PC PSU is almost certainly connecting 0V (DC) to the protective
ground. That almost(*) always means that all other supplies need to be
isolated from protective ground, or you will have a loop.

Anyhow, all the PSUs make it a nightmare to track the 0V (DC) reference
throughout and ensuring it cannot loop. Especially low-power (signal)
connections are hurting badly if you loop it with a high-power (DC)
circuits.


(*) There are some narrow exceptions (ymmv), but don't bet your sanity
on that.



> I feel like it's really hard to trouble shoot because you have the 5vdc to
> power the 7i77 and then limits, relays, etc are presumably run off 24vdc.
> So, plenty of ground loop possibilities, especially w/ the encoders and
> limits being wired up on the original wiring.  Plus the addition of the PC
> to the cabinet...

You hit dead center here... It is a nightmare to troubleshoot. That is
why you usually need to plan very carefully in advance (yeah, I know,
good idea, but time is scarce).

A few design guidelines:
1) keep high-power and low-power systems separated as good as possible
(both AC- and DC-wise);
2) assure, in the low-power system, that you separate the
high-speed-signal and the low-speed-signal parts as much as possible;
3) design using a star-shape. One center and from there to the
peripherals. Interconnects on different star-legs usually/often need to
be galvanically isolated to prevent loops.
4) test incrementally. It is much easier to identify the problem when it
is detected when one (1) single and simple device is added. (However the
cause can still be extremely complex due to interactions.)


-- 
Greetings Bertho

(disclaimers are disclaimed)

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Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP

[Rafael]

  When nothing else works, it's wise to go back to the beginning. After 
so many suggestions, recommendations, and disagreements we have not 
solved this problem since last year.

While grounding could be a major issue, it's not necessarily so in this 
case. As long as there is star wired ground. Besides ground loops don't 
always add up, sometimes they subtract too. Of course, we are not at the 
broken system so troubleshooting is obviously difficult.

On 12/26/2015 07:16 AM, John Thornton wrote:
> I just checked the ground to housing on the VFD filter, VFD, computer,
> and the smaller filter and they are all internally connected to ground.
> The VFD is controlled via modbus so I don't know how to check that cable
> (which is just a phone cable with a phone jack on one end and a DB9 on
> the other end to connect to the computers serial port, it's a Automation
> Direct cable not home made.
>
> Is injection to the mains coming back to the machine somehow?
>
> JT

Troubleshooting was mostly focused on ground and wiring so far. Modbus 
is where the (noisy) action is so it's the most obvious place to start 
troubleshooting.

Not being familiar with modbus I decided to do some reading on it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modbus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RS-232

If I understand it correctly, there are 3 physical means to carry 
modbus: RS-232, RS-485, and ethernet. RS stands for Recommended 
Standard, which never became a real standard as far as I'm concerned. 
I've seen RS-232 implementations for mainframe and PC computer 
peripherals and ham radio ranging from ±25V to ±12V and what's most 
common today, ±5V.

RS-232 is relatively immune to noise, for speeds we are dealing with 
here, as long as one side of shielded cable is grounded. We used to have 
cable runs between mainframe computers and terminals in other buildings 
with (to a degree) different ground and no major issues.

After some search, I ended up reading this document, Modbus For Field 
Technicians:
http://www.modbusbacnet.com/includes/pdf/MODBUS_2010Nov12.pdf
see pages 29 and numerous pages dedicated to RS-485 issues.

I am assuming that your implementation is based on either RS-232 or 
RS-485. At this point it might be worthwhile to look into VFD "black 
box" to see how exactly it connects to the outside world.

Time to check:
- (HW) drivers, ICs, transistors, local caps, voltages [1],
- configuration (parity, etc.),
- use RS-232 breakbox and check signals quality with scope
- try different RS-232 port on PC or replace it if necessary.
- any related jumpers, if any

[1] optical connection protects you from different voltage levels but 
that was not your first try I think so the port on PC side could be 
damaged if the VFD side uses 12V for example. It depends on how old the 
VFD is.

Unknown:
- was VFD/modbus fully functional before rewiring BP?
- What says the VFD maintenance manual?
- Can you run standalone tests on VFD?

How about replacing the DC motors with large resistors and run the 
tests? One by one or all. Are those brushless motors? What's the noise 
around motor wires with a motor or with a resistor?

-- 
Rafael

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Re: [Emc-users] Non-rotary gear cutting Re: Lost fractions of a step - Clock Wheels and Pinions

[Gregg Eshelman]

On 1/4/2016 4:50 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 4 January 2016 at 11:28, Gregg Eshelman  wrote:
>> How much for a 2.5 mod, 10 mm thick with a 35 mm inside diameter?
>
> If you have a CNC mill, a spindle encoder and a CNC rotary axis you
> have all that you need to hob your own gears.
> The rest is just HAL code to feed a scaled spindle position to the rotary 
> axis.

One out of three ain't bad? ;) I have a ProLIGHT PLM2000. It has servos 
on all three axes and its controller only talks to the old DOS software. 
For some reason the company only supported the stepper motor PLM1000 
with their Windows software.

They had an optional, very expensive, HASS 4th axis but only the PLM2000 
mills originally sold with it can use it. There were well under 100 sold 
with the 4th axis option. Without the 4th axis a 3 axis controller was 
installed.

What would be useful is if I could have the firmware in the controller 
dumped. It can be communicated with using a terminal program, one is 
built into the DOS control software. Only a few commands are documented 
and those only because a power setting was incorrect on some of the mills.

If I can ever get my 1920's LeBlond* sold I'll be able to get the 
PLM2000 moved to a better location where I can setup the PC I have for 
it, and a second box set up to log the bi-directional serial 
communication. I tried a DOS logging program, but it failed to record 
anything. The software will almost work in XP but XP periodically says 
"Mine!" to the serial ports and breaks communication with the DOS 
software. I put Windows 95 or 98 on the old box to see if I can get a 
Windows serial logger to run and not interfere with the mill communication.

If the data can be sniffed out, that could make it possible to add 
support to LCNC, then things like a spindle encoder and a 4th axis could 
be added and coordinated with the mill's original control.

For the PLM1000, it's easier just to toss the big box and proprietary 
PCI or ISA card and replace them with something new, especially if the 
card is missing.

*It's an 18" swing by about 25" between centers Rapid Production, fully 
outfitted as an engine lathe with leadscrew, tapered roller bearing 
spindle, gearbox, back gear and standard tailstock instead of a turret. 
No serial number anywhere. Probably a one-off special order. Someone 
wanted this specific configuration with the clutch and brake. It's 
exactly 7 feet long at the chip tray. Would fit crosswise in the back of 
a garage. :)

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[Emc-users] Rewiring the BP

[Mark Johnsen]

John,

Yikes! You mentioned to me to check my shielding on the limit switch
wiring.  It seems that will help, but something else is going.

You had mentioned/requested a picture, so I finally got around to putting
them up here:
http://imgur.com/a/d1jqu
Those pics were during the retro-fit, so the covers are now on the wire
ducts, etc. and it's a little cleaner.  But, still noisy.

Bertho - What you state about the different power supplies is a fear of
mine as I have a +-15vdc Power supply for the Op-amps for the West-Amp
servos, an open frame type 24Vdc power supply, plus the 5vdc power supply I
added for the 7i77.

Also, I don't have my PC in a PC case, open frame w/ the 5i25 held in by
friction (i know, I don't like this either -  need to bend a clamp).  But,
the PC power supply also could factor into the ground loop equation.  I
have mine mounted to the door of my enclosure.

I did buy a rasmi filter off ebay for the GS2 VFD and it should be in end
of the week.

I feel like it's really hard to trouble shoot because you have the 5vdc to
power the 7i77 and then limits, relays, etc are presumably run off 24vdc.
So, plenty of ground loop possibilities, especially w/ the encoders and
limits being wired up on the original wiring.  Plus the addition of the PC
to the cabinet...

Sorry I don't have a good suggestion...  It seems like waiting for micges
and the software update is as good an idea as any...
Mark


> Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2016 17:48:26 +0100
> From: Bertho Stultiens 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> Message-ID: <568aa25a.1040...@vagrearg.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> On 01/04/2016 05:34 PM, John Thornton wrote:
> > Well I grounded X2 to the main ground and when I started LinuxCNC and
> > started to home I got the flurry of sserial errors. So I thought about
> > it for a bit and maybe the ground from the computer case to the ground
> > block was creating a ground loop so I took it off. Started LinuxCNC and
> > immediately go a flurry of sserial errors which locks up LinuxCNC. Mind
> > you this is with the 7i77ISOL card between the 5i25 and the 7i77 which
> > is supposed to block any noise in the sserial communications. The X2 to
> > ground has to go...
> >
> > I do have a 7i92 to test out...
>
> My guess is that you have more than one (ground-)loop. You also need to
> check how the 0V (DC) line interacts with other devices/converters etc.
> wrt. ground and see whether any of them also hook-up to ground somewhere
> along the wiring, PCBs or supplies.
>
> The second type of loops can be (entirely) in the 0V (DC) connection(s)
> where multiple paths, with different impedances, impair the integrity of
> the signal lines. You need to check how the different DC supplies
> interact with the connections as they are. The problem often becomes
> visible when you have both high- and low-power devices connecting and
> running on the same supply and have the 0V (DC) connected so that it
> (can) create(s) a loop.
>
> --
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Non-rotary gear cutting Re: Lost fractions of a step - Clock Wheels and Pinions

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 04 January 2016 01:16:33 Gregg Eshelman wrote:

> On 1/3/2016 10:37 AM, Kirk Wallace wrote:
> > I have been looking at clock gearing off and on for a while. So far,
> > I have found that clock tooth forms are cycloidal, but not really.
> > It seems there is a British standard which is based on the ideal
> > cycloidal form but uses a circular arc for the curved part of a
> > tooth, rather than a cycloid, and clearance is added according to
> > practical experience. I haven't been able to find the contents of
> > the standard, but I'm still looking. My plan was to use a very small
> > diameter (.015") end mill as a universal gear cutting tool for thin
> > wheels from sheet brass. The wheel can be drawn in CAD, converted to
> > g-code then cut in XY without using a rotary axis. I would
> > appreciate any links or information that could get me closer to
> > actually cutting wheels and pinions. Although, pinions are a
> > different kettle of fish.
>
> One way to do it is design the gear in a 2D CAD program then export it
> to DXF to import into a CAM program to convert to G-code.
>
> The free emachineshop software has a gear wizard but it only does
> Diametral Pitch. However it allows for arbitrary input in the DP slot
> so with a calculator like this
> http://www.technobotsonline.com/gear-size-calculator.html you get the
> equivalent number to enter. An issue with it is it creates tooth
> profiles as a lot of short, straight segments.
>
> HEEKS CAD/CAM has a gear generating wizard that only does metric gears
> so to cut a DP gear you have to convert the other way from
> emachineshop. HEEKS' gear wizard uses curves for the teeth and its
> output is adjustable after creation. Select the shape and change the
> numbers. HEEKS costs $10 for the full version, but the only difference
> is the paid version doesn't put a demo notice in the G-Code output.
> That can simply be deleted with any text editor.
>
> FreeCAD's gear wizard is also metric only.
> http://www.freecadweb.org/wiki/index.php?title=PartDesign_InvoluteGear
> IIRC I couldn't get an exported file from it that would import into
> HEEKS.
>
> Why I got into this was a need to repair a 14 DP gear on one end of a
> spool gear in the reverse drive on a 1943 LeBlond Regal 13" 'trainer'
> model metal lathe. Most of the gears in its headstock are only 5/16"
> thick.
>
> Welded up all the teeth on the chewed up gear, put a pointed rod into
> a collet in my PLM2000 mill to center the gear under the spindle,
> clamped it down and set the origin to center. Then I fed it the G-code
> from HEEKS to make a lot of shallow passes with the largest endmills I
> had that were still smaller than the smallest radius in the tooth
> gullets. I made different G-code for different mill diameters.
>
> Ended up going over much of the depth repeatedly, broke all the little
> mills I had, despite using cutting oil, but the job got done.
>
> Other than finding someone with a shaper and either an old 14 pitch
> tooth cutter or the skill to grind one, or a hobber with an extra
> small diameter 14 pitch hob, it was the only way to fix it. The other
> gear on the spool was too close to use normal involute cutters or
> hobs.
>
> LeBlond quoted me $1500 and at least three weeks before they could
> think about making a new gear. (Probably would have to locate a
> retired machinist to come in to do the job!)

You said headstock gears?  Backgears for spindle speed changing? 5/16" 
wide for a lathe swinging a 13" chuck?  In a job shop, that sounds lime 
a recipe to keep LeBlond busy making replacements. That almost sounds 
like a job for a new motor & inverter drive, if a 5HP version can be 
sourced.  Or did you investigate that, finding it would be even more 
sheckles by the time that gearbox was stripped and bypassed to make it 
strong enough?

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Non-rotary gear cutting Re: Lost fractions of a step - Clock Wheels and Pinions

[andy pugh]

On 4 January 2016 at 11:10, Gregg Eshelman  wrote:
> And of course they're 14 pitch and the entire worldwide gear
> industry decided shortly after WW2 that nobody was going to use 14 pitch
> again, ever.

Do you mean 14 DP pitch or 14.5 degree pressure angle?

You can buy 14DP gears from stock
http://www.hpcgears.com/pdf_c33/23.126-23.131.pdf

-- 
atp
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Re: [Emc-users] Has anyone tried this addon to LinuxCNC?

[andy pugh]

On 4 January 2016 at 10:10, Gregg Eshelman  wrote:

> Their tool, dubbed “LinuxCNC-features”, embeds a LinuxCNC-compatible
> graphical gcode programming interface directly into the LinuxCNC native
> user interface.

Yes, it has been "brought in from the cold" and appears in the
"features_preview" branch
http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/features_preview_2

The intention is that it will become part of the standard LinuxCNC
distribution, I think.

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Re: [Emc-users] Non-rotary gear cutting Re: Lost fractions of a step - Clock Wheels and Pinions

[Marcus Bowman]

On 4 Jan 2016, at 06:16, Gregg Eshelman wrote:

> On 1/3/2016 10:37 AM, Kirk Wallace wrote:
> 
>> I have been looking at clock gearing off and on for a while. So far, I
>> have found that clock tooth forms are cycloidal, but not really. It
>> seems there is a British standard which is based on the ideal cycloidal
>> form but uses a circular arc for the curved part of a tooth, rather than
>> a cycloid, and clearance is added according to practical experience. I
>> haven't been able to find the contents of the standard, but I'm still
>> looking. My plan was to use a very small diameter (.015") end mill as a
>> universal gear cutting tool for thin wheels from sheet brass. The wheel
>> can be drawn in CAD, converted to g-code then cut in XY without using a
>> rotary axis. I would appreciate any links or information that could get
>> me closer to actually cutting wheels and pinions. Although, pinions are
>> a different kettle of fish.
> 
> One way to do it is design the gear in a 2D CAD program then export it 
> to DXF to import into a CAM program to convert to G-code.
> 
> The free emachineshop software has a gear wizard but it only does 
> Diametral Pitch. However it allows for arbitrary input in the DP slot so 
> with a calculator like this 
> http://www.technobotsonline.com/gear-size-calculator.html you get the 
> equivalent number to enter. An issue with it is it creates tooth 
> profiles as a lot of short, straight segments.
> 
> HEEKS CAD/CAM has a gear generating wizard that only does metric gears 
> so to cut a DP gear you have to convert the other way from emachineshop.
> HEEKS' gear wizard uses curves for the teeth and its output is 
> adjustable after creation. Select the shape and change the numbers.
> HEEKS costs $10 for the full version, but the only difference is the 
> paid version doesn't put a demo notice in the G-Code output. That can 
> simply be deleted with any text editor.
> 
> FreeCAD's gear wizard is also metric only. 
> http://www.freecadweb.org/wiki/index.php?title=PartDesign_InvoluteGear 
> IIRC I couldn't get an exported file from it that would import into HEEKS.
> 

What about Gearotic? Not free, of course, but might be useful nevertheless.

Marcus

> Why I got into this was a need to repair a 14 DP gear on one end of a 
> spool gear in the reverse drive on a 1943 LeBlond Regal 13" 'trainer' 
> model metal lathe. Most of the gears in its headstock are only 5/16" thick.
> 
> Welded up all the teeth on the chewed up gear, put a pointed rod into a 
> collet in my PLM2000 mill to center the gear under the spindle, clamped 
> it down and set the origin to center. Then I fed it the G-code from 
> HEEKS to make a lot of shallow passes with the largest endmills I had 
> that were still smaller than the smallest radius in the tooth gullets. I 
> made different G-code for different mill diameters.
> 
> Ended up going over much of the depth repeatedly, broke all the little 
> mills I had, despite using cutting oil, but the job got done.
> 
> Other than finding someone with a shaper and either an old 14 pitch 
> tooth cutter or the skill to grind one, or a hobber with an extra small 
> diameter 14 pitch hob, it was the only way to fix it. The other gear on 
> the spool was too close to use normal involute cutters or hobs.
> 
> LeBlond quoted me $1500 and at least three weeks before they could think 
> about making a new gear. (Probably would have to locate a retired 
> machinist to come in to do the job!)
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Non-rotary gear cutting Re: Lost fractions of a step - Clock Wheels and Pinions

[Gregg Eshelman]

On 1/4/2016 3:40 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:

> You said headstock gears?  Backgears for spindle speed changing? 5/16"
> wide for a lathe swinging a 13" chuck?  In a job shop, that sounds lime
> a recipe to keep LeBlond busy making replacements. That almost sounds
> like a job for a new motor & inverter drive, if a 5HP version can be
> sourced.  Or did you investigate that, finding it would be even more
> sheckles by the time that gearbox was stripped and bypassed to make it
> strong enough?

Yup. Gears in the headstock only 5/16" thick, except for the final drive 
to the spindle for high and low range. *Those* helical gears are nigh 
indestructible. The set screw for the high speed gear on the spindle was 
loose, allowing it to slide to the left and chew up the fancy nuts on 
the right end of the two shafts in the gearbox output drive. Luckily the 
OD of that gear cleared the diameter of the shafts enough to leave the 
remains of those nuts as thin threaded sleeves.

LeBlond made the standard/heavy Regal line and the lighter weight 
"trainer" line in the "Roundhead" style. For most of their lathes in the 
WW2 and earlier years they'd design one, then scale it down to make a 
smaller lathe, then scale that one down for a yet smaller model. Thus 
each size of every model of LeBlond before they went to the square 
cornered designs is nearly 100% parts unique to that model/size. It's 
things like this I discovered *after* buying a 17x72" WW2 trainer with 
missing parts. I lucked out, found a guy trying to sell a shorter 17" 
trainer on eBay with a completely shot bed. Took a while to convince him 
the only way he'd ever shift it was to part it out, and give me dibs on 
the pieces I needed. ;) I got it going and sold it to a guy looking for 
a lathe just like it to work on Caterpillar axles.

The 17" trainer got downsized for the 15" and the 15" to the 13". A 13" 
LeBlond Regal roundhead trainer needs a delicate hand at the controls 
and absolutely *never* so much as think about touching any lever on the 
headstock until the lathe is brought to a complete stop.

There's so much empty space inside the headstock, and the gears have to 
shift a long ways... if LeBlond had given things half a thought I bet 
they could easily have fit it with 1/2" or thicker gears. 'Course there 
was wartime steel rationing and costs. Making as many lathes as possible 
from the metal LeBlond was allotted, and getting them to schools to 
train machinists likely had a hand in this model having such thin gears.

I'm only the 3rd owner of this lathe made in 1934. First was the Idaho 
State University in Pocatello. I bought it from a guy who used (and 
likely abused) this lathe as an ISU student in the 70's.

Judging from the tool marks and poor treatment obvious inside the 
headstock, it's a fair bet the reverse gears had been torn up a few 
times. And of course they're 14 pitch and the entire worldwide gear 
industry decided shortly after WW2 that nobody was going to use 14 pitch 
again, ever.

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Re: [Emc-users] Non-rotary gear cutting Re: Lost fractions of a step - Clock Wheels and Pinions

[Gregg Eshelman]

On 1/4/2016 4:23 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 4 January 2016 at 11:10, Gregg Eshelman  wrote:
>> And of course they're 14 pitch and the entire worldwide gear
>> industry decided shortly after WW2 that nobody was going to use 14 pitch
>> again, ever.
>
> Do you mean 14 DP pitch or 14.5 degree pressure angle?
>
> You can buy 14DP gears from stock
> http://www.hpcgears.com/pdf_c33/23.126-23.131.pdf

They're 14 DP and 14.5 degree. If HPC has those I may be tempted to pull 
the headstock apart (again) and send some American $ to the UK.


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Re: [Emc-users] Non-rotary gear cutting Re: Lost fractions of a step - Clock Wheels and Pinions

[andy pugh]

On 4 January 2016 at 11:28, Gregg Eshelman  wrote:
> How much for a 2.5 mod, 10 mm thick with a 35 mm inside diameter?

If you have a CNC mill, a spindle encoder and a CNC rotary axis you
have all that you need to hob your own gears.
The rest is just HAL code to feed a scaled spindle position to the rotary axis.

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[Emc-users] Has anyone tried this addon to LinuxCNC?

[Gregg Eshelman]

http://hackaday.com/2015/12/25/linuxcnc-features-is-the-garage-fabs-missing-cam-tool/

"It takes a long toolchain to take the garage-machinist-to-be through 
all the hoops needed to start cranking out parts. From the choice of CAD 
software to the CAM tools that turn 3D models into gcode, to the gcode 
interpretters that chew up this source code and spit out step and 
direction pulses to turn the cranks of a cnc mill, there’s a multitude 
of open-and-closed source tools to choose from and even an opportunity 
to develop some of our own. That’s exactly what [Nick] and the folks 
over on the cnc-club forums did; they’ve written their own CAM tool that 
enables the end user to design a procedure of cuts and toolpaths that 
can export to gcode compatible with LinuxCNC.

Their tool, dubbed “LinuxCNC-features”, embeds a LinuxCNC-compatible 
graphical gcode programming interface directly into the LinuxCNC native 
user interface. Creating a part is a matter of defining a list of 
sequential cuts along programmable toolpaths. These sequential cuts are 
treatments like drilled holes, square pockets, bolt holes, and lines. 
The native embedding enables the machinist to preview each of the 3D 
toolpaths in LinuxCNC’s live view, giving him-or-her a quick-and-dirty 
check to make sure that their gcode performs as expected before running 
it. [Nick] has a couple of videos to get you up-and running on either 
your mill or lathe.

LinuxCNC-features has been out in the wild for almost two years now, but 
if you’re looking to get started cranking out parts in the garage, look 
no further for a CAM tool that can quickly generate gcode for simple 
projects. In case you’re not familiar with LinuxCNC, it’s one of the 
most mature open-source gcode interpreters designed to turn your PC into 
a CNC controller, and it’s the brains behind some outstanding DIY CNC 
machines like this plasma cutter."

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Re: [Emc-users] Has anyone tried this addon to LinuxCNC?

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 04 January 2016 05:10:45 Gregg Eshelman wrote:

> http://hackaday.com/2015/12/25/linuxcnc-features-is-the-garage-fabs-mi
>ssing-cam-tool/
>
> "It takes a long toolchain to take the garage-machinist-to-be through
> all the hoops needed to start cranking out parts. From the choice of
> CAD software to the CAM tools that turn 3D models into gcode, to the
> gcode interpretters that chew up this source code and spit out step
> and direction pulses to turn the cranks of a cnc mill, there’s a
> multitude of open-and-closed source tools to choose from and even an
> opportunity to develop some of our own. That’s exactly what [Nick] and
> the folks over on the cnc-club forums did; they’ve written their own
> CAM tool that enables the end user to design a procedure of cuts and
> toolpaths that can export to gcode compatible with LinuxCNC.
>
> Their tool, dubbed “LinuxCNC-features”, embeds a LinuxCNC-compatible
> graphical gcode programming interface directly into the LinuxCNC
> native user interface. Creating a part is a matter of defining a list
> of sequential cuts along programmable toolpaths. These sequential cuts
> are treatments like drilled holes, square pockets, bolt holes, and
> lines. The native embedding enables the machinist to preview each of
> the 3D toolpaths in LinuxCNC’s live view, giving him-or-her a
> quick-and-dirty check to make sure that their gcode performs as
> expected before running it. [Nick] has a couple of videos to get you
> up-and running on either your mill or lathe.
>
> LinuxCNC-features has been out in the wild for almost two years now,
> but if you’re looking to get started cranking out parts in the garage,
> look no further for a CAM tool that can quickly generate gcode for
> simple projects. In case you’re not familiar with LinuxCNC, it’s one
> of the most mature open-source gcode interpreters designed to turn
> your PC into a CNC controller, and it’s the brains behind some
> outstanding DIY CNC machines like this plasma cutter."
>
Thank you for reminding me of this tools existence Gregg.

I had downloaded that to this machine last September but a cursory look 
at its contents, failed to find an INSTALL file.  So I didn't.  Turned 
out the installation is in the README.md file, which I just printed.  
Later today when I have one eye open simultaneously, I'll see if I can 
make it work with this 2.7.3-sim install.  Locally its 6:15 am & I need 
more ZZ's.

Thank you Gregg.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
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Re: [Emc-users] Non-rotary gear cutting Re: Lost fractions of a step - Clock Wheels and Pinions

[Gregg Eshelman]

On 1/4/2016 3:46 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 4 January 2016 at 06:16, Gregg Eshelman  wrote:
>> LeBlond quoted me $1500 and at least three weeks before they could think
>> about making a new gear. (Probably would have to locate a retired
>> machinist to come in to do the job!)
>
>
> I would do it for half that :-)

Bet you would. :) I wouldn't be surprised to discover that part of the 
lead time would be for LeBlond to drag an old shaper out of storage and 
fix it up to do the job. Can't be a lot of call for a feed reverse gear 
for a 73 year old 13" lathe.

> Hobs are not that expensive:
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271961374714

But small enough to cut one gear next to a larger gear only about 1" 
away? And of course being 14 pitch the hob would not at all be a stock 
item. I spent $2000 on my CNC mill so I can claim to have saved $1,000 
;P and it's useful for other jobs.

> In your position I would have (depending on the relative hub
> diameters) turned off the existing teeth and pressed on a ring gear or
> pressed the existing partner gear onto the hub of a new smaller gear.

No such thing as 14 pitch stock gears. Or 1.75 mod, or 2.5 mod 10 mm 
face width. A friend of mine is fixing a Takang TK380. Cost him around 
$200 to have the 1.75 mod feed drive output gear cut. First time the 
machinist insisted there was no such thing as 1.75 module and cut it 2 
mod. 1.75 mod is darn close to 14 pitch and like 14 pitch has been 
declared "obsolete", sometime in the 1970's or early 1980's.

For the 2.5 mod 10 mm thick gear, I found one at KHK the day before new 
year's eve and bookmarked it. I showed to my friend that evening and he 
said buy it. So new year's day I went to the page and GONE! All 10 mm 
thick 2.5 mod gears GONE! Can't get them, unobtanium from any stock gear 
company. Only available are 25 mm thick, 30 mm for higher tooth counts - 
or 6 mm thick "thin face" - or 18 mm Delrin. At least I can still get a 
thicker gear and spend a bunch of time and effort to throw away money 
cutting it thinner, then cutting the damaged gear off the spool, boring, 
pressing, drilling and tapping for set screws to pin it. One of the 
larger spool gears in it is factory done like that.

WTH is with the gear industry that it periodically points its collective 
finger at something and banishes it from being made?

> I have actually made a few sets of repair gears for the apron of the
> Rivett 608 for a few people. Rivett made their gear pairs in
> pressed-together pairs originally.
> https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/Rivett#6223123844882670610

How much for a 2.5 mod, 10 mm thick with a 35 mm inside diameter?


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Re: [Emc-users] Non-rotary gear cutting Re: Lost fractions of a step - Clock Wheels and Pinions

[andy pugh]

On 4 January 2016 at 06:16, Gregg Eshelman  wrote:
> LeBlond quoted me $1500 and at least three weeks before they could think
> about making a new gear. (Probably would have to locate a retired
> machinist to come in to do the job!)


I would do it for half that :-)

Hobs are not that expensive:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271961374714

In your position I would have (depending on the relative hub
diameters) turned off the existing teeth and pressed on a ring gear or
pressed the existing partner gear onto the hub of a new smaller gear.

I have actually made a few sets of repair gears for the apron of the
Rivett 608 for a few people. Rivett made their gear pairs in
pressed-together pairs originally.
https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/Rivett#6223123844882670610

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Re: [Emc-users] Resetting rotary movement count

[Chris Radek]

On Mon, Jan 04, 2016 at 11:18:20PM +, Marcus Bowman wrote:
> 
> so the fault message indicates the G10 L20 resets the co-ordinates
> of the selected co-ordinate system, but not the absolute machine
> co-ordinates. This means I do not have a command to prevent
> rotation being cumulative and counting against the Max-Limit for
> that axis. That can't be right??

That's right.  You're setting an offset that makes A=0.

> Is there a way to reset the Max_Limit count (in other words, to do
> the equivalent of G10 L20 for the absolute machine co-ordinates.

Nope, unfortunately.

> Or have I missed something?

Just add some more nines to your MIN and MAX limits.

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Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP

[John Thornton]

I have 3 DC power supplies in the drive side, a 5vdc, a 24vdc, and a 
170vdc.

The 5vdc power supply on the 0v side reads 37.6 ohms with the 0v and 5v 
sides connected to the 7i77 5v plug. The 7i77 is the only thing it 
powers up. When I unplug the 7i77 0v reads open so there is a path 
through the 7i77 5v to ground.

The 24vdc power supply is for the limit switches and push buttons. It 
reads open from 0v to ground.

The 170vdc power supply is a bridge rectifier with a large blue cap and 
a power resistor. See the photo in the link of the current panel. I 
can't tell which side should be 0v but both sides measure 0.65M ohms to 
ground. I don't know if that is reading back through the bridge 
rectifier or the drives. It only powers the three axis drives.

Current panel layout http://gnipsel.com/images/bp-knee-mill/bpel06.jpg

JT

On 1/4/2016 10:48 AM, Bertho Stultiens wrote:
> On 01/04/2016 05:34 PM, John Thornton wrote:
>> Well I grounded X2 to the main ground and when I started LinuxCNC and
>> started to home I got the flurry of sserial errors. So I thought about
>> it for a bit and maybe the ground from the computer case to the ground
>> block was creating a ground loop so I took it off. Started LinuxCNC and
>> immediately go a flurry of sserial errors which locks up LinuxCNC. Mind
>> you this is with the 7i77ISOL card between the 5i25 and the 7i77 which
>> is supposed to block any noise in the sserial communications. The X2 to
>> ground has to go...
>>
>> I do have a 7i92 to test out...
> My guess is that you have more than one (ground-)loop. You also need to
> check how the 0V (DC) line interacts with other devices/converters etc.
> wrt. ground and see whether any of them also hook-up to ground somewhere
> along the wiring, PCBs or supplies.
>
> The second type of loops can be (entirely) in the 0V (DC) connection(s)
> where multiple paths, with different impedances, impair the integrity of
> the signal lines. You need to check how the different DC supplies
> interact with the connections as they are. The problem often becomes
> visible when you have both high- and low-power devices connecting and
> running on the same supply and have the 0V (DC) connected so that it
> (can) create(s) a loop.
>


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Re: [Emc-users] Resetting rotary movement count

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 04 January 2016 18:34:20 andy pugh wrote:

> On 4 January 2016 at 23:18, Marcus Bowman
>
>  wrote:
> > Taking another view, absolute machine co-ordinates should be just
> > that - absolute. In that case, Max_Limit should refer to a count of
> > the co-ordinates within the currently selected co-ordinate system
> > G54 etc so that I can reset that count by resetting the
> > co-ordinates.
>
> No, the max-limit and min-limit are the hard physical limits of the
> axis, and are absolute.
>
> However, there ought to be a way to disable the limits on a rotary
> axis. You could just use much bigger numbers.  degrees is only 27
> full revolutions. I don't know if there is any limit to how big the
> limits can be, it's probably float-max (10^308)

Is my memory acting its 81 year of age Andy?  ISTR reading someplace, 
quite years ago, that setting those limits to 0.0 disabled them.  Or is 
this true of only the linear axis's?

Cheers, Gene Heskett
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[Emc-users] Resetting rotary movement count

[Marcus Bowman]

I created a program to cut a circle from thick steel plate, moving the X axis 
to the radius of the plate, and using the rotary table to rotate the blank. It 
slowly cut its way through until it came to the Max_Limit for the rotary axis 
() then it stopped with an error message saying the next move would exceed 
the limit for that axis.

Here's the puzzling thing, though.

My program repeats the sequence:
do one rotation using G0 A360 Zsomething
then reset the A value using G10 L20 P1 A0

so the fault message indicates the G10 L20 resets the co-ordinates of the 
selected co-ordinate system, but not the absolute machine co-ordinates. This 
means I do not have a command to prevent rotation being cumulative and counting 
against the Max-Limit for that axis. That can't be right??
Is there a way to reset the Max_Limit count (in other words, to do the 
equivalent of G10 L20 for the absolute machine co-ordinates.
Taking one view, I should be able to do this, to prevent this problem.
Taking another view, absolute machine co-ordinates should be just that - 
absolute. In that case, Max_Limit should refer to a count of the co-ordinates 
within the currently selected co-ordinate system G54 etc so that I can reset 
that count by resetting the co-ordinates.

Or have I missed something?

Marcus
   
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Re: [Emc-users] Resetting rotary movement count

[andy pugh]

On 4 January 2016 at 23:18, Marcus Bowman
 wrote:
> Taking another view, absolute machine co-ordinates should be just that - 
> absolute. In that case, Max_Limit should refer to a count of the co-ordinates 
> within the currently selected co-ordinate system G54 etc so that I can reset 
> that count by resetting the co-ordinates.

No, the max-limit and min-limit are the hard physical limits of the
axis, and are absolute.

However, there ought to be a way to disable the limits on a rotary
axis. You could just use much bigger numbers.  degrees is only 27
full revolutions. I don't know if there is any limit to how big the
limits can be, it's probably float-max (10^308)


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Re: [Emc-users] Lost fractions of a step

[Cecil Thomas]

As promised, here is the follow up:

1. After extensive testing of the A axis running a 
non-integer-step-producing angle several thousand iterations it 
appears, just as John K said, that the "leftovers' are dealt with 
within the planer in an intelligent way and there are no measurable 
residual errors.

2. The backlash in the rotary axis is less than .5 degrees.

3. The backlash for the Z axis is less than .002 but had been set to 
.005 in the .ini (it had to be me that put it there since no one else 
has touched the machine)

4. The real culprit was the Z axis.  I put a dial indicator in the 
spindle and zeroed it at Z0 with the spindle traveling down. wrote a 
program to lift the indicator clear of the table and cycle the Z axis 
up and down 1000 times at G00 feed rate then run it back to Z0 moving 
down.  It lost about .010 inches.  I cut the max velocity and max 
acceleration by 25 percent and ran it again.  The step loss was not 
detectable on the indicator.

It would appear that the fat tooth was caused by Z axis step losses 
due to trying to move the axis up faster than it was comfortable 
with. (I can relate to that, It's how I feel sometimes)

So... As the Fonz would say... " I was wrwrwr...wr...wrong" 
about the truncation of fractions of steps and I caused the problem 
by not setting up my max velocity and acceleration carefully enough.

I also noticed that the temperature in my shop this time of year is 
around 50 degrees F while it often runs as warm as 80 in the 
summer.  I'm guessing that I did the testing for the original max vel 
and acc in the summer when the lube was thin and now that it has 
thickened up a little there is more resistance to moving the 
axis.  Guess it would be a good time to check X and Y to see if the 
season has affected them.

Thanks again for the help.

Cecil


Thanks to everyone for their input.  John answered the right question.

The bottom line appears to be that Linuxcnc does "round" both up and 
down to the  "nearest" step as opposed to just dropping the "leftover"

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Re: [Emc-users] Resetting rotary movement count

[Cecil Thomas]

I have a small lathe that I set up to use a servo drive on the 
spindle, essentially making the spindle a rotary axis.  The servo was 
large enough to provide the torque needed to make the cuts and it 
made coordinated spindle moves wonderfully. (think thread cutting, 
cam grinding, milling cutter relief grinding etc.)
The only problem was that there was no simple way to set the spindle 
back to zero degrees WITHIN a program without actually "unwinding 
it".  I searched long and hard for a solution and was finally 
convinced by those who know a lot more about the workings of the 
trajectory planner than I (which would be anything at all) that it 
can't be done for the reasons just explained.

By the way if there have been any changes in LCNC that let you "home" 
or set the rotary axis back to zero without exiting the program or 
actually running the axis back to zero I'd like to know about it 
since I haven't looked into it for over 10 years.

Cecil


At 06:18 PM 1/4/2016, you wrote:

>Or have I missed something?
>
>Marcus
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Active gcode status in custom pyVCP panel

[andy pugh]

On 4 January 2016 at 15:32, Shawn Gano  wrote:

> I would like to have an LED widget or some sort of status indicator if G43 
> (tool length compensation) is active or not.   I can't seem to find a HAL pin 
> or way to get a boolean value if a particular gcode is active or not to 
> connect to an LED.  Is this possible?

Anything is possible, but some things take a lot of effort, and this
might be one of them.

The Axis interface already displays active G-codes in the MDI window.

As you have noticed, there is no HAL pin for G43 state, so you would
have to make a HAL component to create on. This is possible but needs
coding.

A better starting point might be GladeVCP. GladeVCP allows you to
embed code in the widgets, and maybe create your own. I suspect that
that would be a better starting point.
http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui/gladevcp.html

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Re: [Emc-users] Non-rotary gear cutting Re: Lost fractions of a step

[Peter Blodow]

No, Andy, it was a rather coarse thread up to very close to the flange 
of a large (british...) cutting head shaft. A shop man gave it to me 
because they had failed in several attempts to make a mill shaft that 
would fit the head. Apparently, I was the first to find out that it had 
two start threads, after closely examinig it already after the first 
futile attempt.
Besides, the graziano is able of 440 mm diameter threads :-))
Peter

Am 04.01.2016 14:15, schrieb andy pugh:
> On 4 January 2016 at 12:57, Peter Blodow  wrote:
>
>> I have run my Graziano lathe with the frequency converter as low as 5 Hz
>> (for a delicate job of threading) - I wouldn't have liked being the one
>> to stop or slow down the lathe by mechanical load or attempting to brake
>> the chuck even at 8 rev./min!
> Was it a 330mm diameter thread, though?
>


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Re: [Emc-users] Non-rotary gear cutting Re: Lost fractions of a step

[Peter Blodow]

Andy,
I have run my Graziano lathe with the frequency converter as low as 5 Hz 
(for a delicate job of threading) - I wouldn't have liked being the one 
to stop or slow down the lathe by mechanical load or attempting to brake 
the chuck even at 8 rev./min! Only thing is, at length I have to watch 
motor temperature at these low speeds because the built-in fan is not 
much good then.
Peter

Am 04.01.2016 11:54, schrieb andy pugh:
/snip
A 13" lathe would ideally run at no more than 50 rpm at the bottom end 
with a 13" workpiece. even with a modest 1500rpm top speed over-driving 
the motor to 100Hz you would be trying to run the motor at 3Hz at the 
low end. I don't think you would see much torque there.




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Re: [Emc-users] Non-rotary gear cutting Re: Lost fractions of a step

[andy pugh]

On 4 January 2016 at 12:57, Peter Blodow  wrote:

> I have run my Graziano lathe with the frequency converter as low as 5 Hz
> (for a delicate job of threading) - I wouldn't have liked being the one
> to stop or slow down the lathe by mechanical load or attempting to brake
> the chuck even at 8 rev./min!

Was it a 330mm diameter thread, though?

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Re: [Emc-users] Resetting rotary movement count

[Dave Caroline]

I had problems in this area, I think it is not a feature but a bug
that an rotary axis cannot be set to 0 or be infinite in its
rotations, the wrapped rotary docs as an option just seemed wrong for
this when I last read them a few years ago.
Winding back is a very slow operation and should not be needed.

There are rotaries with mechanical limits and rotaries without limits,
an arbitrary large number used as a limit is a kludge waiting to bite
the unsuspecting.

Dave Caroline

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[Emc-users] Active gcode status in custom pyVCP panel

[Shawn Gano]

Hello - I have been tinkering with the Axis interface by adding a custom pyVCP 
panel. 

I would like to have an LED widget or some sort of status indicator if G43 
(tool length compensation) is active or not.   I can't seem to find a HAL pin 
or way to get a boolean value if a particular gcode is active or not to connect 
to an LED.  Is this possible? 

I found this message from a few months ago that seemed to be similar:
http://sourceforge.net/p/emc/mailman/message/34456161/

But it was for connecting or updating a Glade display which seems to allow more 
low level python coding -- this may still be applicable - but I have no clue 
how to use this in relation to the .xml file for the pyVCP panel I am adding or 
the .hal file I use to connect up the display to data.

Any hints of suggestions would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks!
- Shawn


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Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP

[Bertho Stultiens]

On 01/04/2016 05:34 PM, John Thornton wrote:
> Well I grounded X2 to the main ground and when I started LinuxCNC and 
> started to home I got the flurry of sserial errors. So I thought about 
> it for a bit and maybe the ground from the computer case to the ground 
> block was creating a ground loop so I took it off. Started LinuxCNC and 
> immediately go a flurry of sserial errors which locks up LinuxCNC. Mind 
> you this is with the 7i77ISOL card between the 5i25 and the 7i77 which 
> is supposed to block any noise in the sserial communications. The X2 to 
> ground has to go...
> 
> I do have a 7i92 to test out...

My guess is that you have more than one (ground-)loop. You also need to
check how the 0V (DC) line interacts with other devices/converters etc.
wrt. ground and see whether any of them also hook-up to ground somewhere
along the wiring, PCBs or supplies.

The second type of loops can be (entirely) in the 0V (DC) connection(s)
where multiple paths, with different impedances, impair the integrity of
the signal lines. You need to check how the different DC supplies
interact with the connections as they are. The problem often becomes
visible when you have both high- and low-power devices connecting and
running on the same supply and have the 0V (DC) connected so that it
(can) create(s) a loop.

-- 
Greetings Bertho

(disclaimers are disclaimed)

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Re: [Emc-users] Debian Wheezy monitor problem(s), new install

[tom-emc]

Well, I have conquered two of my three problems.  Still need some advice on the 
last one.

First, the suggestion of issuing CTRL-ALT-F1 to get a terminal is useful. Saves 
one from having to reboot into safe mode all the time.

After first trying to create an xorg.conf, a lightdm config, and anything else 
I could think of, I attempted to reinstall (apt-get —reinstall install 
PACKAGE-NAME) nearly every damn thing related to X11, lightdm, and XFCE4.  
While the reinstall was successful ;-) it had no effect on any of my problems.  
After logging in I would still get an XFCE error regarding my panel being saved 
and my monitor would go blank immediately.  

I then dug around to find the xfce configuration and found it in 
~/.config/xfce4/.  I removed all the files under 
~/.config/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/ and ~/.config/xfce4/panel/ figuring 
these would all be regenerated.  And I was right, on reboot and logging in I 
still got the error related to saving my panel but I got the first run message 
in XFCE and had my screen back on.  One battle won.  And there was much 
rejoicing...

Then google lead me to some random advice on clearing the user’s cache.  I 
exited xfce (using CTRL-ALT-F1), logged in there and did:
“rm -R ~/.cache”.  On reboot and logging back in, my error messages were gone.  
Woohoo!  I am now back to where I was when I finished the install yesterday.  
Oh, well, must be thankful for the small victories…

These commands, issued in a terminal, do the right thing to my display. That is 
they put it in the correct resolution.
xrandr —newmode “1920x1080_60.00” 173.0 1920 2048 2248 2576 1080 1083 1088 1120 
-hsync +vsync
xrandr —admode VGA1 1920x1080)60.00
xrandr —output VGA1 —mode 1920x1080_60.00

But I don’t know how to make these commands stick.  I have to issue them every 
time I log in.

Also, according to XFCE I have two displays, one called VGA1 and one called 
LVDS1.  I see these in the Desktop Settings window and XFCE wants to have a 
backgound on each display.  So for VGA1 at the now fixed resolution I have a 
background image and in the upper left corner, the other background image 
defined for LVDS1 (low display res) I have another image.

Any ideas on where to go from here?

-Tom


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Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP

[John Thornton]

Well I grounded X2 to the main ground and when I started LinuxCNC and 
started to home I got the flurry of sserial errors. So I thought about 
it for a bit and maybe the ground from the computer case to the ground 
block was creating a ground loop so I took it off. Started LinuxCNC and 
immediately go a flurry of sserial errors which locks up LinuxCNC. Mind 
you this is with the 7i77ISOL card between the 5i25 and the 7i77 which 
is supposed to block any noise in the sserial communications. The X2 to 
ground has to go...

I do have a 7i92 to test out...

JT

On 1/2/2016 6:26 AM, John Thornton wrote:
> I do have a "control transformer" which can be identified by the three 
> fuses on top. One for X1 (secondary) and one each for L1 and L2. I 
> went back and found out which was X1 and X2 and will correct my wiring 
> today. My question is I have a filter on X1 and X2 should I ground 
> before or after the filter?
>
> JT
>
> On 1/1/2016 6:41 PM, John Kasunich wrote:
>> 120V transformer secondaries (in the USA) need to be grounded on
>> one side, even if they are part of a machine control panel.
>>
>> Such transformers are referred to as "control power transformers"
>> and traditionally powered electro-mechanical control devices such
>> as relays and contactors.  Today they still power those things, and
>> they also power AC-to-DC supplies that run the electronic parts of
>> the control.The low voltage DC power distribution (typically 24V)
>> is sometimes un-grounded, sometimes single-point grounded, for
>> exactly the noise reasons Berthos mentions.  But the 120V "control
>> power" isn't used a the "reference" for anything - it is still "dirty"
>> power, although not as dirty as the main power that might be going
>> to a VFD or whatever.
>
>
>
> --
>
>
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[Emc-users] Debian Wheezy monitor problem(s), new install

[Mark Johnsen]

Tom,

I dug into my notes and this popped up, but not sure it would be of help:
One person had the same issue and he got to this directory:
$HOME/.e/e/config/standard"
and found files such as:
 "e_randr.cfg" plus "e_randr.1.cfg" thru "e_randr.9.cfg"

I'm wondering if those are the config files you could edit?  Not really
sure.

Mark

PS - You did better than I did and I saved your notes incase I come across
this again.  Thanks!


> Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2016 11:53:47 -0500
> From: tom-...@bgp.nu
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Debian Wheezy monitor problem(s), new install
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Well, I have conquered two of my three problems.  Still need some advice
> on the last one.
>
> First, the suggestion of issuing CTRL-ALT-F1 to get a terminal is useful.
> Saves one from having to reboot into safe mode all the time.
>
> After first trying to create an xorg.conf, a lightdm config, and anything
> else I could think of, I attempted to reinstall (apt-get ?reinstall install
> PACKAGE-NAME) nearly every damn thing related to X11, lightdm, and XFCE4.
> While the reinstall was successful ;-) it had no effect on any of my
> problems.  After logging in I would still get an XFCE error regarding my
> panel being saved and my monitor would go blank immediately.
>
> I then dug around to find the xfce configuration and found it in
> ~/.config/xfce4/.  I removed all the files under
> ~/.config/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/ and ~/.config/xfce4/panel/
> figuring these would all be regenerated.  And I was right, on reboot and
> logging in I still got the error related to saving my panel but I got the
> first run message in XFCE and had my screen back on.  One battle won.  And
> there was much rejoicing...
>
> Then google lead me to some random advice on clearing the user?s cache.  I
> exited xfce (using CTRL-ALT-F1), logged in there and did:
> ?rm -R ~/.cache?.  On reboot and logging back in, my error messages were
> gone.  Woohoo!  I am now back to where I was when I finished the install
> yesterday.  Oh, well, must be thankful for the small victories?
>
> These commands, issued in a terminal, do the right thing to my display.
> That is they put it in the correct resolution.
> xrandr ?newmode ?1920x1080_60.00? 173.0 1920 2048 2248 2576 1080 1083 1088
> 1120 -hsync +vsync
> xrandr ?admode VGA1 1920x1080)60.00
> xrandr ?output VGA1 ?mode 1920x1080_60.00
>
> But I don?t know how to make these commands stick.  I have to issue them
> every time I log in.
>
> Also, according to XFCE I have two displays, one called VGA1 and one
> called LVDS1.  I see these in the Desktop Settings window and XFCE wants to
> have a backgound on each display.  So for VGA1 at the now fixed resolution
> I have a background image and in the upper left corner, the other
> background image defined for LVDS1 (low display res) I have another image.
>
> Any ideas on where to go from here?
>
> -Tom
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP

[John Thornton]

What it boils down to is not the VFD but something in the DC or low 
voltage circuits. I don't have a modbus problem but rather a sserial 
problem.

Thanks

On 1/4/2016 3:00 PM, Rafael wrote:
>When nothing else works, it's wise to go back to the beginning. After
> so many suggestions, recommendations, and disagreements we have not
> solved this problem since last year.
>
> While grounding could be a major issue, it's not necessarily so in this
> case. As long as there is star wired ground. Besides ground loops don't
> always add up, sometimes they subtract too. Of course, we are not at the
> broken system so troubleshooting is obviously difficult.
>
> On 12/26/2015 07:16 AM, John Thornton wrote:
>> I just checked the ground to housing on the VFD filter, VFD, computer,
>> and the smaller filter and they are all internally connected to ground.
>> The VFD is controlled via modbus so I don't know how to check that cable
>> (which is just a phone cable with a phone jack on one end and a DB9 on
>> the other end to connect to the computers serial port, it's a Automation
>> Direct cable not home made.
>>
>> Is injection to the mains coming back to the machine somehow?
>>
>> JT
> Troubleshooting was mostly focused on ground and wiring so far. Modbus
> is where the (noisy) action is so it's the most obvious place to start
> troubleshooting.
>
> Not being familiar with modbus I decided to do some reading on it.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modbus
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RS-232
>
> If I understand it correctly, there are 3 physical means to carry
> modbus: RS-232, RS-485, and ethernet. RS stands for Recommended
> Standard, which never became a real standard as far as I'm concerned.
> I've seen RS-232 implementations for mainframe and PC computer
> peripherals and ham radio ranging from ±25V to ±12V and what's most
> common today, ±5V.
>
> RS-232 is relatively immune to noise, for speeds we are dealing with
> here, as long as one side of shielded cable is grounded. We used to have
> cable runs between mainframe computers and terminals in other buildings
> with (to a degree) different ground and no major issues.
>
> After some search, I ended up reading this document, Modbus For Field
> Technicians:
> http://www.modbusbacnet.com/includes/pdf/MODBUS_2010Nov12.pdf
> see pages 29 and numerous pages dedicated to RS-485 issues.
>
> I am assuming that your implementation is based on either RS-232 or
> RS-485. At this point it might be worthwhile to look into VFD "black
> box" to see how exactly it connects to the outside world.
>
> Time to check:
> - (HW) drivers, ICs, transistors, local caps, voltages [1],
> - configuration (parity, etc.),
> - use RS-232 breakbox and check signals quality with scope
> - try different RS-232 port on PC or replace it if necessary.
> - any related jumpers, if any
>
> [1] optical connection protects you from different voltage levels but
> that was not your first try I think so the port on PC side could be
> damaged if the VFD side uses 12V for example. It depends on how old the
> VFD is.
>
> Unknown:
> - was VFD/modbus fully functional before rewiring BP?
> - What says the VFD maintenance manual?
> - Can you run standalone tests on VFD?
>
> How about replacing the DC motors with large resistors and run the
> tests? One by one or all. Are those brushless motors? What's the noise
> around motor wires with a motor or with a resistor?
>


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Re: [Emc-users] Debian Wheezy monitor problem(s), new install

[tom-emc]

Ok, I am 99.9% of the way there….

I created a file called /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/10-monitor.conf (after 
reading the Debian Wheezy has it’s configs in that directory rather then 
/etc/X11).

In 10-monitor.conf I have:
-
Section "Monitor"
Identifier "VGA1"
Modeline  “1920x1080_60.00” 173.0 1920 2048 2248 2576 1080 1083 1088 1120 
-hsync +vsync
   Option "PreferredMode" "1920x1080_60.00”
EndSection

Section "Screen"
Identifier "Screen0"
Monitor "VGA1"
DefaultDepth 24
SubSection "Display"
Modes “1920x1080_60.00"
EndSubSection
EndSection

Section "Device"
Identifier "Device0"
Driver "intel"
EndSection
-

And my monitor resolution is correct on log in.  Yay!  Then in the Display 
Settings I found a checkbox to turn off the LVDS1 screen and so when the log in 
completes I have only one background image.

The 0.1% that isn’t correct is that the login screen has both monitors live 
with the login panel in the upper left of the monitor.   This is bordering on 
“it ain’t worth my time” but…

-Tom


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