Re: [Emc-users] Face Milling

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 22 May 2020 12:17:30 John Dammeyer wrote:

> Thanks for catching the spelling mistake.  I'll fix that when I add
> the photos of the Spindle Motor mount plate and motor mount.
>
> I really regret not buying the larger X axis (and horizontal mill)
> version of the G3617.  But at the time it looked like it would take up
> too much space and the extra cost couldn't be justified.  Looking back
> now the $3616 Cdn. (all taxes in) price I paid for it wasn't very
> much.  At least compared to what I'd have to pay now to replace it.
> https://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-9-x-39-2-HP-Horizontal-Vertic
>al-Mill-with-Power-Feed/G0757
>
> It's about $6K US yet for some reason they convert that to almost $11K
> Cdn.
>
> My project #42 is to add an R8 Spindle into the column where there is
> one on the G0757 and an AC Servo to turn it.  And cast up the other
> end to hold the horizontal spindle.   There's no reason I couldn't add
> the horizontal mill feature since the table pivots the same way it
> does on the horizontal mill version.
>
> image of product G0757
>
> Although, with CNC, is a pivoting table even needed for helical gear
> cutting? John

Within the Y table motion limits, no. An if one motorizes the indexer, 
and knows his math better than I do, even that limit may vanish. But it 
would involve actively driveing the indexer in sync with everything 
else.  And that, using the indexer as the helix generator, would be 
difficult with std cutters as the top of the tooth would get cut too 
narrow.  Easier by far on a cnc'd shaper with the motorized indexer. 

I don't personally know how to do it only that in the hands of a creative 
mind ONLY the machine mechanics determine what you cab do, linuxcnc has 
no limits.

> > -Original Message-
> > From: James Isaac [mailto:whirl...@live.com]
> > Sent: May-22-20 8:26 AM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Face Milling
> >
> > Hello John.
> >
> > You have a better mill than I do.
> >
> > Within > 
> > <http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/Mill_CNC%3chttp:/www.autoartisans.
> >com/mill/Mill_CNC>
> > www.autoartisans.com/mill/Mill_CNC<http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/
> >Mill_CNC>  , I noticed RS522.
> > Since the predecessor networking protocol was RS485, and wondering
> > if the RS522 was a mis spelled RS422, I googled RS522.
> >
> > /(Start of dream application)
> > Did you put an RFID chip on all of your cutters and drills?
> > /(End of dream application)
Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>


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Re: [Emc-users] Face Milling

[John Dammeyer]

Thanks for catching the spelling mistake.  I'll fix that when I add the photos 
of the Spindle Motor mount plate and motor mount.
 
I really regret not buying the larger X axis (and horizontal mill) version of 
the G3617.  But at the time it looked like it would take up too much space and 
the extra cost couldn't be justified.  Looking back now the $3616 Cdn. (all 
taxes in) price I paid for it wasn't very much.  At least compared to what I'd 
have to pay now to replace it.
https://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-9-x-39-2-HP-Horizontal-Vertical-Mill-with-Power-Feed/G0757
 
It's about $6K US yet for some reason they convert that to almost $11K Cdn.
 
My project #42 is to add an R8 Spindle into the column where there is one on 
the G0757 and an AC Servo to turn it.  And cast up the other end to hold the 
horizontal spindle.   There's no reason I couldn't add the horizontal mill 
feature since the table pivots the same way it does on the horizontal mill 
version.  
 
image of product G0757
 
Although, with CNC, is a pivoting table even needed for helical gear cutting?
John
 
 
> -Original Message-
> From: James Isaac [mailto:whirl...@live.com]
> Sent: May-22-20 8:26 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Face Milling
> 
> Hello John.
> 
> You have a better mill than I do.
> 
> Within >  
> <http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/Mill_CNC%3chttp:/www.autoartisans.com/mill/Mill_CNC>
>  
> www.autoartisans.com/mill/Mill_CNC<http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/Mill_CNC> 
>  ,
> I noticed RS522.
> Since the predecessor networking protocol was RS485, and wondering if the 
> RS522 was a mis spelled RS422, I googled RS522.
> 
> /(Start of dream application)
> Did you put an RFID chip on all of your cutters and drills?
> /(End of dream application)
> 
> 
> James Isaac.
> 
> From: John Dammeyer < <mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com> jo...@autoartisans.com>
> Sent: May 21, 2020 12:07 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' < 
> <mailto:emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Face Milling
> 
> It's fairly robust.  Like a Grizzly G3616.
>  <http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/Mill_CNC> 
> http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/Mill_CNC
> 
> But it's got a poor excuse for an ACME feed not on the X axis with about 
> 0.024" backlash.  Climb milling in the X direction with slow
> RPM and a large cutter causes the table to shake.  So once the spindle speed 
> control system is in place the whole thing is coming
> apart for a ball screw retrofit.  And belt guards and covers etc.
> 
> So with the current backlash it may not be robust enough for round cutters.
> 
> John
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: dave engvall [ <mailto:dengv...@charter.net> 
> > mailto:dengv...@charter.net]
> > Sent: May-21-20 7:04 AM
> > To:  <mailto:emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> 
> > emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Face Milling
> >
> > Round inserts are nice if you have the power and stiffness to use them.
> > Only in desperation would I use a fly cutter simple because of the
> > unbalanced load.
> > Because of their radius the round inserts will give a nice finish.
> > Have fun.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > On 5/20/20 9:56 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > > I've been surfacing a casting that is larger than my machine envelope.   
> > > Not only that although pattern was 5/8" thick MDF the
> > casting ended up with thicker and thinner parts.   With it shimmed and 
> > moving clamps around I managed to flatten the bottom
> and
> > then clamp it down and surface the top.  But it took a long time.
> > >
> > > I found LinuxCNC easy enough to use for this.  Just kept resetting x or y 
> > > home and restarting the G_code.
> > >
> > > Anyone used one of these?
> > >  <https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000890081459.html> 
> > > https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000890081459.html
> > >
> > > Or with the round carbide inserts
> > >  <https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32952847637.html> 
> > > https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32952847637.html
> > >
> > > Alternatively since I use the Tormach Tooling at a much higher price 
> > > there is this flycutter.
> > >  <https://tormach.com/tts-superfly-cutter-kit-33031.html> 
> > > https://tormach.com/tts-superfly-cutter-kit-33031.html
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >

Re: [Emc-users] Face Milling

[James Isaac]

Hello John.

You have a better mill than I do.

Within > 
www.autoartisans.com/mill/Mill_CNC<http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/Mill_CNC>  ,
I noticed RS522.
Since the predecessor networking protocol was RS485, and wondering if the RS522 
was a mis spelled RS422, I googled RS522.

/(Start of dream application)
Did you put an RFID chip on all of your cutters and drills?
/(End of dream application)


James Isaac.

From: John Dammeyer 
Sent: May 21, 2020 12:07 PM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Face Milling

It's fairly robust.  Like a Grizzly G3616.
http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/Mill_CNC

But it's got a poor excuse for an ACME feed not on the X axis with about 0.024" 
backlash.  Climb milling in the X direction with slow RPM and a large cutter 
causes the table to shake.  So once the spindle speed control system is in 
place the whole thing is coming apart for a ball screw retrofit.  And belt 
guards and covers etc.

So with the current backlash it may not be robust enough for round cutters.

John


> -Original Message-
> From: dave engvall [mailto:dengv...@charter.net]
> Sent: May-21-20 7:04 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Face Milling
>
> Round inserts are nice if you have the power and stiffness to use them.
> Only in desperation would I use a fly cutter simple because of the
> unbalanced load.
> Because of their radius the round inserts will give a nice finish.
> Have fun.
>
> Dave
>
> On 5/20/20 9:56 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > I've been surfacing a casting that is larger than my machine envelope.   
> > Not only that although pattern was 5/8" thick MDF the
> casting ended up with thicker and thinner parts.   With it shimmed and moving 
> clamps around I managed to flatten the bottom and
> then clamp it down and surface the top.  But it took a long time.
> >
> > I found LinuxCNC easy enough to use for this.  Just kept resetting x or y 
> > home and restarting the G_code.
> >
> > Anyone used one of these?
> > https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000890081459.html
> >
> > Or with the round carbide inserts
> > https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32952847637.html
> >
> > Alternatively since I use the Tormach Tooling at a much higher price there 
> > is this flycutter.
> > https://tormach.com/tts-superfly-cutter-kit-33031.html
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Face Milling

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 21 May 2020 21:46:50 John Dammeyer wrote:

> So I popped over to a friends to borrow a carbide 3 cutter face mill. 
> Alas the MORSE Taper draw bar fitting wouldn't work with my R8 to MT3
> adaptor.  But the more rounded cutters gave me the idea to use my
> green wheel on the carbide brazed cutter I was usingin the mid size
> fly cutter holder.
>
> No difference really other than the cast aluminium tended to melt onto
> the tip more easily.  I had clamped a failed casting into a large
> vise.
>
> Having seen my friends fly cutter bits (modified carbide inserts) I
> started thinking about the amount the 1/4" shank cutter protruded.  I
> found a 5/16" HSS tool bit and touched up the tip.  Then screwed it in
> place.  Ultimately I ended up using a set screw (long story) but all I
> can say is Wow!
>
> http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/TestFlycut_1.jpg
>
> http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/TestFlycut_2.jpg
>
> Silky smooth.   No light past a straight edge laid across it.  With my
> eyes closed dragging fingernail across it I can't feel the pass
> transitions.  Milling done by moving X axis.  Last pass was 0.003"
> DOC, 390 RPM, 2.1 IPM.  About 2"diameter fly cutter.  Overlap about
> 0.2" between passes.
>
> So I suspect the 1/4" tool bit vibrated like heck as it grabbed and
> cut the work and that's what did much of the scratching on the
> retreating edge.
>
> John

More than likely the 1/4" tool was borderline dull, and flexing sideways, 
tipping its face.

I have also found, when doing alu, that an HSS bit can be made much 
sharper than carbide on the powered rouge waterstone I sharpen wood 
plane blades with giving a much smoother finishing cut than carbide 
inserts ever thought of.  Carbide inserts can be sharpened but take a 
huge toll on the rouge if not using a feather touch, taking a long time 
to get the mirror edge that HSS can be done to in just a few minutes.

But you absolutely must have active coolant flow, mist working better 
than a liquid dribble, to keep the air away from your just cut surface 
to reduce the alox formation behind the cutters passage, which in turn 
eats the edge off your tool as it comes back around on thenext 
revolution.  Its that quick if left dry, even with carbide as the alox 
from burning alu is harder than your carbide. That alox formation behind 
the cutting edge in less than a thousandth of a second is also the 
majority of the heat generated when cutting alu, far more than the 
friction of the cut, that heat is carried away by the chip being 
removed.  Alu, in the presence of the 21% airborn oxygen is a very 
active metal, keep it sealed with a mist directed at the back face of 
your cutting tool so its wetted and sealed as quickly as possible behind 
the edge of your cutting tools passage.

So I do roughing passes with carbide, but finishing passes with HSS.

Another alu cooling method might be done by boxing the machine up in an 
air tight enclosure, and flooding the enclosure with dry nitrogen.

That of course has its problems with operator safety, and doesn't work as 
well for steel though, due to nitrogen embrittlement and the flooding 
gas costs lots more. I probably should not have mentioned it except I've 
been around it since the '60's as its used to pressurize transmission 
lines on broadcast towers.  Dried air is cheaper, but 50 yo copper still 
looks brand new when nitrogen is used in it, and the connection failure 
rates are vanishingly smaller.
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Face Milling

[John Dammeyer]

So I popped over to a friends to borrow a carbide 3 cutter face mill.  Alas the 
MORSE Taper draw bar fitting wouldn't work with my R8 to MT3 adaptor.  But the 
more rounded cutters gave me the idea to use my green wheel on the carbide 
brazed cutter I was usingin the mid size fly cutter holder.  

No difference really other than the cast aluminium tended to melt onto the tip 
more easily.  I had clamped a failed casting into a large vise.

Having seen my friends fly cutter bits (modified carbide inserts) I started 
thinking about the amount the 1/4" shank cutter protruded.  I found a 5/16" HSS 
tool bit and touched up the tip.  Then screwed it in place.  Ultimately I ended 
up using a set screw (long story) but all I can say is Wow!

http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/TestFlycut_1.jpg

http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/TestFlycut_2.jpg

Silky smooth.   No light past a straight edge laid across it.  With my eyes 
closed dragging fingernail across it I can't feel the pass transitions.  
Milling done by moving X axis.  Last pass was 0.003" DOC, 390 RPM, 2.1 IPM.  
About 2"diameter fly cutter.  Overlap about 0.2" between passes.

So I suspect the 1/4" tool bit vibrated like heck as it grabbed and cut the 
work and that's what did much of the scratching on the retreating edge.  

John




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Re: [Emc-users] Face Milling

[John Dammeyer]

Good idea.  I'll have to try that.
John


> -Original Message-
> From: Jon Elson [mailto:el...@pico-systems.com]
> Sent: May-21-20 3:44 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Face Milling
> 
> On 05/21/2020 11:39 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > This was a year ago but based on the latest fly cutting results I'm getting 
> > slight ridges so either the fly cutter isn't exactly turning a
> perfect horizontal arc or I need to tram again.
> > http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/TrammedVertical.jpg
> >
> >
> Tramming the head-spindle to the table surface is not what
> you want, especially on an older (worn) mill.
> What I do is have a program that mills a circular path on a
> piece of scrap.  Step down a little at a time until it cuts
> all the way around.  Then, move to the center, and put in
> the dial indicator and sweep the circle.
> This allows you to tram to the actual X-Y plane of motion of
> the machine, which may NOT be parallel to the surface of the
> table.  My 1938 Bridgeport cuts a kind of saddle shape that
> moves up and down a few thousandths of an inch over about a
> 7" sweep.  This way, I can tram the head to be as close to
> perpendicular to that as possible.
> 
> Jon
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Face Milling

[Stuart Stevenson]

Use a lathe face plate with 3 adjustable supports and an indicator in the
the center of the spindle, move the machine to dial in the face plate to
the machine motion. Then use a bar in the spindle to swing the indicator to
sweep the face plate. Same as Jon's procedure but without machining.

On Thu, May 21, 2020, 5:46 PM Jon Elson  wrote:

> On 05/21/2020 11:39 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > This was a year ago but based on the latest fly cutting results I'm
> getting slight ridges so either the fly cutter isn't exactly turning a
> perfect horizontal arc or I need to tram again.
> > http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/TrammedVertical.jpg
> >
> >
> Tramming the head-spindle to the table surface is not what
> you want, especially on an older (worn) mill.
> What I do is have a program that mills a circular path on a
> piece of scrap.  Step down a little at a time until it cuts
> all the way around.  Then, move to the center, and put in
> the dial indicator and sweep the circle.
> This allows you to tram to the actual X-Y plane of motion of
> the machine, which may NOT be parallel to the surface of the
> table.  My 1938 Bridgeport cuts a kind of saddle shape that
> moves up and down a few thousandths of an inch over about a
> 7" sweep.  This way, I can tram the head to be as close to
> perpendicular to that as possible.
>
> Jon
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Face Milling

[Jon Elson]

On 05/21/2020 11:39 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:

This was a year ago but based on the latest fly cutting results I'm getting 
slight ridges so either the fly cutter isn't exactly turning a perfect 
horizontal arc or I need to tram again.
http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/TrammedVertical.jpg


Tramming the head-spindle to the table surface is not what 
you want, especially on an older (worn) mill.
What I do is have a program that mills a circular path on a 
piece of scrap.  Step down a little at a time until it cuts 
all the way around.  Then, move to the center, and put in 
the dial indicator and sweep the circle.
This allows you to tram to the actual X-Y plane of motion of 
the machine, which may NOT be parallel to the surface of the 
table.  My 1938 Bridgeport cuts a kind of saddle shape that 
moves up and down a few thousandths of an inch over about a 
7" sweep.  This way, I can tram the head to be as close to 
perpendicular to that as possible.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Face Milling

[Stuart Stevenson]

If you are getting mismatch from one pass to another your spindle is not
perpendicular to the plane of motion you have the workpiece clamped to. The
only other thing I can think of is if are cutting with the Y axis and
indexing the X axis for the passes across the workpiece. If the table
extends far past the Y axis ways you will have table droop because of
weight transfer. You cannot avoid it unless you have outriggers to support
the table.
Heh, on a knee mill if you use the X axis to cut and index the Y axis you
will end up with a convex surface you just faced.

hth
Stuart

On Thu, May 21, 2020, 11:42 AM John Dammeyer  wrote:

> This was a year ago but based on the latest fly cutting results I'm
> getting slight ridges so either the fly cutter isn't exactly turning a
> perfect horizontal arc or I need to tram again.
> http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/TrammedVertical.jpg
>
> Or it's something to do with the backlash.
>
> John
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Jon Elson [mailto:el...@pico-systems.com]
> > Sent: May-21-20 9:25 AM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Face Milling
> >
> > On 05/20/2020 11:56 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > >
> > > Anyone used one of these?
> > > https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000890081459.html
> > >
> > >
> > Years ago, we had CNC meetings at Roland Friestad's shop
> > near Galesburg, IL.  He made CNC retrofits to sell to tech
> > schools, and apparently made some of his own tooling.  I
> > found a bunch of very similar
> > small face mills with R-8 taper, and I think we bought all
> > he had. I'm still using them for this type
> > of face milling work.  The bigger the face mill, the more
> > accurately you need to have your machine trammed.
> >
> > Jon
> >
> >
> > ___
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>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Face Milling

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 21 May 2020 12:07:42 John Dammeyer wrote:

> It's fairly robust.  Like a Grizzly G3616.
> http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/Mill_CNC
>
I almost bought one of those off the showroom floor at Lycoming Mall up 
in PA when grizzly had a facility there, but couldn't figure out how to 
get it home 350 miles to WV with my 99 GMC half ton surviving the trip, 
Too tall for a cargo van from uhaul, and IIRC its about 8k lbs.  
Trucking would have added to the price, a lot I thought.  Sigh.

> But it's got a poor excuse for an ACME feed not on the X axis with
> about 0.024" backlash.

Yikes!

> Climb milling in the X direction with slow RPM 
> and a large cutter causes the table to shake.  So once the spindle
> speed control system is in place the whole thing is coming apart for a
> ball screw retrofit.  And belt guards and covers etc.
>
> So with the current backlash it may not be robust enough for round
> cutters.
>
> John
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: dave engvall [mailto:dengv...@charter.net]
> > Sent: May-21-20 7:04 AM
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Face Milling
> >
> > Round inserts are nice if you have the power and stiffness to use
> > them. Only in desperation would I use a fly cutter simple because of
> > the unbalanced load.
> > Because of their radius the round inserts will give a nice finish.
> > Have fun.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > On 5/20/20 9:56 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > > I've been surfacing a casting that is larger than my machine
> > > envelope.   Not only that although pattern was 5/8" thick MDF the
> >
> > casting ended up with thicker and thinner parts.   With it shimmed
> > and moving clamps around I managed to flatten the bottom and then
> > clamp it down and surface the top.  But it took a long time.
> >
> > > I found LinuxCNC easy enough to use for this.  Just kept resetting
> > > x or y home and restarting the G_code.
> > >
> > > Anyone used one of these?
> > > https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000890081459.html
> > >
> > > Or with the round carbide inserts
> > > https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32952847637.html
> > >
> > > Alternatively since I use the Tormach Tooling at a much higher
> > > price there is this flycutter.
> > > https://tormach.com/tts-superfly-cutter-kit-33031.html
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>


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Re: [Emc-users] Face Milling

[John Dammeyer]

This was a year ago but based on the latest fly cutting results I'm getting 
slight ridges so either the fly cutter isn't exactly turning a perfect 
horizontal arc or I need to tram again.  
http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/TrammedVertical.jpg

Or it's something to do with the backlash.

John


> -Original Message-
> From: Jon Elson [mailto:el...@pico-systems.com]
> Sent: May-21-20 9:25 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Face Milling
> 
> On 05/20/2020 11:56 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> >
> > Anyone used one of these?
> > https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000890081459.html
> >
> >
> Years ago, we had CNC meetings at Roland Friestad's shop
> near Galesburg, IL.  He made CNC retrofits to sell to tech
> schools, and apparently made some of his own tooling.  I
> found a bunch of very similar
> small face mills with R-8 taper, and I think we bought all
> he had. I'm still using them for this type
> of face milling work.  The bigger the face mill, the more
> accurately you need to have your machine trammed.
> 
> Jon
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Face Milling

[Sam Sokolik]

one of the small ones... :)  Bigger ones do increase your work area ;)



On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:27 AM Jon Elson  wrote:

> On 05/20/2020 11:56 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> >
> > Anyone used one of these?
> > https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000890081459.html
> >
> >
> Years ago, we had CNC meetings at Roland Friestad's shop
> near Galesburg, IL.  He made CNC retrofits to sell to tech
> schools, and apparently made some of his own tooling.  I
> found a bunch of very similar
> small face mills with R-8 taper, and I think we bought all
> he had. I'm still using them for this type
> of face milling work.  The bigger the face mill, the more
> accurately you need to have your machine trammed.
>
> Jon
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Face Milling

[Jon Elson]

On 05/20/2020 11:56 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:


Anyone used one of these?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000890081459.html


Years ago, we had CNC meetings at Roland Friestad's shop 
near Galesburg, IL.  He made CNC retrofits to sell to tech 
schools, and apparently made some of his own tooling.  I 
found a bunch of very similar
small face mills with R-8 taper, and I think we bought all 
he had. I'm still using them for this type
of face milling work.  The bigger the face mill, the more 
accurately you need to have your machine trammed.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Face Milling

[John Dammeyer]

Thanks.  That's a lot of inserts if you have a collision.
John


> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: May-21-20 9:03 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Face Milling
> 
> On Thu, 21 May 2020 at 16:55, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> >
> > How many cutting bits and what type and R8 or straight shaft or some other 
> > quick change?
> 
> Mine is a standard shell-mill mount, and I mount it on a BT30 adaptor.
> I think it has 8 inserts.
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Face Milling

[John Dammeyer]

It's fairly robust.  Like a Grizzly G3616. 
http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/Mill_CNC

But it's got a poor excuse for an ACME feed not on the X axis with about 0.024" 
backlash.  Climb milling in the X direction with slow RPM and a large cutter 
causes the table to shake.  So once the spindle speed control system is in 
place the whole thing is coming apart for a ball screw retrofit.  And belt 
guards and covers etc.

So with the current backlash it may not be robust enough for round cutters.

John


> -Original Message-
> From: dave engvall [mailto:dengv...@charter.net]
> Sent: May-21-20 7:04 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Face Milling
> 
> Round inserts are nice if you have the power and stiffness to use them.
> Only in desperation would I use a fly cutter simple because of the
> unbalanced load.
> Because of their radius the round inserts will give a nice finish.
> Have fun.
> 
> Dave
> 
> On 5/20/20 9:56 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > I've been surfacing a casting that is larger than my machine envelope.   
> > Not only that although pattern was 5/8" thick MDF the
> casting ended up with thicker and thinner parts.   With it shimmed and moving 
> clamps around I managed to flatten the bottom and
> then clamp it down and surface the top.  But it took a long time.
> >
> > I found LinuxCNC easy enough to use for this.  Just kept resetting x or y 
> > home and restarting the G_code.
> >
> > Anyone used one of these?
> > https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000890081459.html
> >
> > Or with the round carbide inserts
> > https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32952847637.html
> >
> > Alternatively since I use the Tormach Tooling at a much higher price there 
> > is this flycutter.
> > https://tormach.com/tts-superfly-cutter-kit-33031.html
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Face Milling

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 21 May 2020 at 16:55, John Dammeyer  wrote:
>
> How many cutting bits and what type and R8 or straight shaft or some other 
> quick change?

Mine is a standard shell-mill mount, and I mount it on a BT30 adaptor.
I think it has 8 inserts.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Face Milling

[John Dammeyer]

How many cutting bits and what type and R8 or straight shaft or some other 
quick change?
John


> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: May-21-20 1:22 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Face Milling
> 
> On Thu, 21 May 2020 at 05:59, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
> > https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000890081459.html
> 
> I have a 100mm dia face mill that I use for facing off castings. I
> bought it used from eBay.
> 
> But my milling machine has an excess of torque and a dearth of speed.
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Face Milling

[dave engvall]

Round inserts are nice if you have the power and stiffness to use them. 
Only in desperation would I use a fly cutter simple because of the 
unbalanced load.

Because of their radius the round inserts will give a nice finish.
Have fun.

Dave

On 5/20/20 9:56 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:

I've been surfacing a casting that is larger than my machine envelope.   Not only 
that although pattern was 5/8" thick MDF the casting ended up with thicker and 
thinner parts.   With it shimmed and moving clamps around I managed to flatten the 
bottom and then clamp it down and surface the top.  But it took a long time.

I found LinuxCNC easy enough to use for this.  Just kept resetting x or y home 
and restarting the G_code.

Anyone used one of these?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000890081459.html

Or with the round carbide inserts
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32952847637.html

Alternatively since I use the Tormach Tooling at a much higher price there is 
this flycutter.
https://tormach.com/tts-superfly-cutter-kit-33031.html

John




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Re: [Emc-users] Face Milling

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 21 May 2020 at 05:59, John Dammeyer  wrote:

> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000890081459.html

I have a 100mm dia face mill that I use for facing off castings. I
bought it used from eBay.

But my milling machine has an excess of torque and a dearth of speed.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Face Milling

[andrew beck]

john

I sell these in new zealand all the time.  they work perfectly.  I even run
them in my cnc.  there are much better cutters of course but these
definitely work

make sure you buy alloy inserts for them they are polished and razor
sharp.  I would think a apkt insert would be much better than a round
insert as the large radius might cause chatter

if you want toolholders this company in china makes tts toolholders

they are also a authorised haas supplier lol

https://igstool.com/

I am buying some holders from them at the moment

regards

Andrew

On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 4:59 PM John Dammeyer 
wrote:

> I've been surfacing a casting that is larger than my machine envelope.
>  Not only that although pattern was 5/8" thick MDF the casting ended up
> with thicker and thinner parts.   With it shimmed and moving clamps around
> I managed to flatten the bottom and then clamp it down and surface the
> top.  But it took a long time.
>
> I found LinuxCNC easy enough to use for this.  Just kept resetting x or y
> home and restarting the G_code.
>
> Anyone used one of these?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000890081459.html
>
> Or with the round carbide inserts
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32952847637.html
>
> Alternatively since I use the Tormach Tooling at a much higher price there
> is this flycutter.
> https://tormach.com/tts-superfly-cutter-kit-33031.html
>
> John
>
>
>
>
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