Re: [Emc-users] More news & ? from WV.

2016-08-21 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Saturday 20 August 2016 19:33:26 Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Friday 19 August 2016 23:16:47 Gene Heskett wrote:
>
> Had to quit for much of the rest of the weekend, need some steel, and
> TSC doesn't satisfy my hunger with their crappy hot roll.
>
> But I've a question, based on what I know about steppers.
>
> That 1600 oz/in I took off the mill that was falling over at 30 ipm
> going up is being a puzzle.  The 9x0 oz/in I put on in its place has
> no problem with 90 ipm.

Thats a failure at 2.5 RPS, and the other motor is happy as a clam at 7.5 
RPS.
>
> But I wanted to see what might be its limits just laying on the table,
> with the same 60 volt psu, and the same DM860 driver. I hooked it all
> up and drove it with my function generator.  At 100 revs, it could run
> the rotisary spinning this house.  So I cranked up the kilohertz,
> after setting the DM860 for its nameplate rated 3.5 amps. and a /16
> divisor. That label on the DM860 tries to fool you, its minimum
> divisor is 2.
>
> It finally stalled at 150 kilohertz!

[...]

I went out to mount that new apron plate today, and found I needed one 
more cutput in the top edge, to allow the X screw shaft to pass thru it.

So I measure its diameter, and carve a hole that fits it rather 
precisely, so precisely I had to revert to the time honored mill bastard 
an knock off 64 years worth of high spots & dings. That left a mess at 
the top as my tool is getting dull and it was cutting thru the edge of 
an old small threaded screw hole, so I went y=0x-radius, and plowed a 
straight line to the top of the plate.  Went back y0xradius and plowed 
the other side so I can slip the plate into place from the bottom. Done, 
walk back over to the Sheldon to check fit, and found it had hidden 
teeth.  You cannot see it, but from the X feed bearing to the left end 
of the saddle is 5", flip the tape measure to the other side and its 
5.375".  So I said screw it to myself, and made a 3/8" bigger cutout, 
moveing the 0,0 point 3/16" to the left.  And I was doing so good at 
fixing it up with filler that a coat of paint will hide.  To top that 
off, the v cutout for the cross slider overhang is just as far off 
center but it clears anyway. Sigh.  Looks like rank beginner made it.. 
Oh, wait, I am one of those. 

Ordered a nema 34 right angle mount bracket tonight for this big ugly Z 
motor.  It will sit where QCGB was but with things spaced so that the 
screw is as close to the bed and some higher, however far I can lift it 
to keep the swarf off it. The rack will be removed too, which will raise 
it another half inch or more.  Since it won't have weight to lift, just 
inertia and friction, I'll be surprised if I can't get 200 ipm rapids. 
Friction is not that high, with the taper stuff uncoupled, I can push it 
full length of the bed with a 10 lb push once its moving.

Thanks for reading.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
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Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] More news & ? from WV.

2016-08-20 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Friday 19 August 2016 23:16:47 Gene Heskett wrote:

Had to quit for much of the rest of the weekend, need some steel, and TSC 
doesn't satisfy my hunger with their crappy hot roll.

But I've a question, based on what I know about steppers.

That 1600 oz/in I took off the mill that was falling over at 30 ipm going 
up is being a puzzle.  The 9x0 oz/in I put on in its place has no 
problem with 90 ipm.

But I wanted to see what might be its limits just laying on the table, 
with the same 60 volt psu, and the same DM860 driver. I hooked it all up 
and drove it with my function generator.  At 100 revs, it could run the 
rotisary spinning this house.  So I cranked up the kilohertz, after 
setting the DM860 for its nameplate rated 3.5 amps. and a /16 divisor.  
That label on the DM860 tries to fool you, its minimum divisor is 2.

It finally stalled at 150 kilohertz!  By my calculator, that is at least 
20x what it could do as the z drive on the mill.  I did have to sneak up 
on the frequency above 20 kilohertz, but that was way faster than it 
could run on the Z axis of my mill. I suspect a properly configured 
lowpass placed in front of the PID could make quite a difference in its 
ultimately attainable speed. Spinning that yard and a half long 2505 
screw at 1/1 should be a piece of cake.  Just don't expect that the 
saddle and screw are zero inertia.  This is obviously bigger iron. But 
this new apron will weigh, even with the X motor on its rear face, 
likely 10% of what the OEM apron weighed, and that cannot help but help 
overall..

That I expect will seriously cause excess over shoot getting turned 
around when rigid tapping.  A lag in the turn around at spindle reversal 
would I hope, throw a following error.  One might use a rising following 
error to reduce the spindle accel allowing Z to catch up.  That would be 
the ideal I'd think. Just shutting it all down will stop Z ok, but the 
chuck etc will still coast enough to bust the tap, and that is not a 
desirable result.

Question: How will the following error be handled in a G33 or varient 
thereof?  Or is that a never mind given the mass of an 8" chuck to be 
turned around gently enough it won't unscrew itself from the spindle 
nose?  Following error should not uncouple that electronic gear lock

In due time such questions can be answered, but I'd like to head off such 
problems before I get to the "pass" if I can.

Comments?

I should have that induction heater module Monday, its someplace in PA 
when I looked this morning. Which end of PA, I don't know.

Thanks.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] More news & ? from WV.

2016-08-19 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Wednesday 17 August 2016 10:54:44 Gene Heskett wrote:

Some limited progress of the qc 'standoff'.

Its being difficult due to short life of the carbide inserts I am turning 
it with, and I should have contoured it offcenter like Andy did. I get 
about 20mm  down the cyclinder and the end of the workpiece starts 
gnawing on it. I may have to make a t-slot bar so I can mount it on the 
mill & see how far I can get, carving it in an offcenter cone.  So no 
progress today.

I did get started on the apron though, getting the edges cleaned up and 
fairly square, then did a cutout to clear the crossfeed at its max out 
position, and drilled 8 ea .244" holes for 1/4" USS grade 8 bolts as I 
will be putting 4 on each side of the clearance cutout to bolt it to the 
front face of the saddle.  I'll drill the same pattern in another piece 
of alu tomorrow, but with the correct sized tap drill for 1/4x20 
threads. I'll superglue it to the face of the saddle & see if I can hold 
the drill straight enough to both drill the holes to be tapped, and tap 
the holes once I knock the pattern loose again, or maybe even tap right 
thru the first 1/2" of alu. I am looking for a piece of 1/8" hard alu to 
make the motor mount itself, drilling it for both nema 23 and nema 34 
motors in case the 23 isn't stout enough.  Future think?   Me?  I 
probably should log that.

While at TSC this evening picking up a small bag of grade 8 bolts and 
some 6mm flat washers to fill those holes with, I tripped over a tube of 
permatex metal filler that looked like it was powdered alu for filler & 
color, which I will plug all the old holes with in this plate of 1/2", 
and a rattle can of darker grey tractor paint, so I might be able to 
make it look moderately professional.  We shall see.  Plum brown would 
have been a better color match against that antique saddle, but none of 
that jumped off the shelf into my hand. :(

The varic has arrived, or a box of bricks, as I haven't opened the box to 
verify, yet... As has that pair of 50 amp 1kv bridges, and I trucked 
that huge toroid out to start getting all that in one pile, while 
telling my back to STHU, so all I need now is that 1kw induction heater 
module to get started on that.  Found a couple heat sinks too.

Progress, but not too hastily. I have a polo shirt with a sign on 
it. "don't rush me, I get paid by the hour", seems to fit me these days.
I should have bought a dozen so I could use them as a uniform shirt. :)

Cheers everybody, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] More news & ? from WV.

2016-08-17 Thread Ken Strauss 
Link?

> -Original Message-
> From: Gregg Eshelman [mailto:g_ala...@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 7:02 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] More news & ? from WV.
>
> Have a look at this. Wouldn't be surprised to see foundries doing this for 
> low
> volumes of castings. If PLA can be injection, blow or roto molded to make 
> the
> shells, it could be used for high volume production with fewer rejected
> castings since there's no chance of wrecking the sand molds removing
> patterns. Lost foam has been done for quite a while but the surface of the
> parts looks like aluminum styrofoam.
>
>  New 3D Printed Lost Shell Sand Casting Technique Offers Fine Detail in 
> Metal
>
>
> |
> |
> |
> |   ||
>
>|
>
>   |
> |
> |   |
> New 3D Printed Lost Shell Sand Casting Technique Offers Fine Detail in Metal
>  We have the privilege of viewing many action-packed videos from innovators
> showing what their new creations are ...  |   |
>
>   |
>
>   |
>
>
>
>
>
>   From: andy pugh <bodge...@gmail.com>
>  To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
>  Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 3:29 AM
>  Subject: Re: [Emc-users] More news & ? from WV.
>
> On 16 August 2016 at 23:49, Gene Heskett <ghesk...@shentel.net> wrote:
> > The local casting shop seems to be using machined alu forms, and I
> > have seen no evidence they can take a pattern & do all the work to
> > make it sand castable. I haven't toured the whole place, so I've not
> > seen the furnace, just the casting finishing.  Wheels hubs for IH & I
> > believe White truck tractors.
>
> They are probably using match-plate patterns in a continuous line and won't
> be wanting to do one-offs.
>
> However, for any foundry using cope-and-drag there is no difference between
> making 1 and making 100, the process per casting is identical.
>
> Some possibilities here:
> http://wiki.vintagemachinery.org/FoundrySources.ashx
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] More news & ? from WV.

2016-08-17 Thread Gregg Eshelman 
Have a look at this. Wouldn't be surprised to see foundries doing this for low 
volumes of castings. If PLA can be injection, blow or roto molded to make the 
shells, it could be used for high volume production with fewer rejected 
castings since there's no chance of wrecking the sand molds removing patterns. 
Lost foam has been done for quite a while but the surface of the parts looks 
like aluminum styrofoam.

 New 3D Printed Lost Shell Sand Casting Technique Offers Fine Detail in Metal

  
|  
|   
|   
|   ||

   |

  |
|  
|   |  
New 3D Printed Lost Shell Sand Casting Technique Offers Fine Detail in Metal
 We have the privilege of viewing many action-packed videos from innovators 
showing what their new creations are ...  |   |

  |

  |

 


 
  From: andy pugh <bodge...@gmail.com>
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> 
 Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 3:29 AM
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] More news & ? from WV.
   
On 16 August 2016 at 23:49, Gene Heskett <ghesk...@shentel.net> wrote:
> The local casting shop seems to be using machined alu forms, and I have
> seen no evidence they can take a pattern & do all the work to make it
> sand castable. I haven't toured the whole place, so I've not seen the
> furnace, just the casting finishing.  Wheels hubs for IH & I believe
> White truck tractors.

They are probably using match-plate patterns in a continuous line and
won't be wanting to do one-offs.

However, for any foundry using cope-and-drag there is no difference
between making 1 and making 100, the process per casting is identical.

Some possibilities here:
http://wiki.vintagemachinery.org/FoundrySources.ashx

   
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Re: [Emc-users] More news & ? from WV.

2016-08-17 Thread sam sokolik 
I also did a few years back and one of the local foundrys would do 1 
offs..  I don't know if they still do.  it was dollars a pound though.  
(don't remember exactly)

On 8/17/2016 9:25 AM, John Kasunich wrote:
>
> On Tue, Aug 16, 2016, at 01:54 PM, andy pugh wrote:
>> Have you considered having a casting made? You seem to enjoy
>> woodworking, so pattern making shouldn't be too hard for you.
>>
> I think foundries that are willing to do one-off jobs for random
> guys off the street are far less common on this side of the pond.
> I did some searching on that topic a few years back and had
> zero luck.
>
>
>
>John Kasunich
>jmkasun...@fastmail.fm
>
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>


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Re: [Emc-users] More news & ? from WV.

2016-08-17 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Wednesday 17 August 2016 10:07:41 andy pugh wrote:

> On 17 August 2016 at 11:17, Sarah Armstrong
>
>  wrote:
> > but the newer
> > composite form material it's easier to form by cnc
> > and quicker than using wood and then treating the forms with resin
> > or filler and sanding etc .
>
> Yes, though not inexpensive:
> http://www.easycomposites.co.uk/#!/patterns-moulds-and-tooling/pattern
>-making/high-density-polyurethane-foam-block.html

$20-25 for a 10cm by 30cm by 30 cm seems reasonable enough.

> I use it when I can find it in the skip at work, though:
> https://goo.gl/photos/rxtV24TFtkNS62u56
> became:
> https://goo.gl/photos/ivhb9TJeBoC45SFb6

:) I've a block of cast iron for that. Which I will mount using the OEM 
bolts, with an off-center mount hole for the phase-ii, which will let me 
move it around some, basically to get the maximum support and rigidity 
under the tools cutting face.  The bolt pattern in the crossfeed allows 
a full 360 rotation. It will keep the litte monster busy for a while as 
it will be about an inch fatter than the identically thought out piece 
for the little monster, and the mill too, making the centering pin hole 
in the bottom, and the slots in the sides for the hold down bolts.

Question, would I, when facing the bottom, be smart to make it a 
thousandth or 2 hollow ground so that the rim would have some preload, 
making it more rigid?  I've done that with the piece for the little 
monster, but have not yet done the drilling and tapping to finish it.

With the holddown bolt scheme on the Holbrook, about a thou convex in the 
center would be the same thing effectively by preloading the bolts last 
half turn to tight.

Thanks Andy.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] More news & ? from WV.

2016-08-17 Thread John Kasunich 


On Tue, Aug 16, 2016, at 01:54 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> 
> Have you considered having a casting made? You seem to enjoy
> woodworking, so pattern making shouldn't be too hard for you.
> 

I think foundries that are willing to do one-off jobs for random
guys off the street are far less common on this side of the pond.
I did some searching on that topic a few years back and had 
zero luck.



  John Kasunich
  jmkasun...@fastmail.fm

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Re: [Emc-users] More news & ? from WV.

2016-08-17 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Wednesday 17 August 2016 06:17:26 Sarah Armstrong wrote:

> i tend to use aluminium forms when i need to make hundereds and that
> when some tollerance of fit is needed
> more for robustnes , wooden forms are fine for one offs , but the
> newer composite form material it's easier to form by cnc
> and quicker than using wood and then treating the forms with resin or
> filler and sanding etc .

These forms are reusable, or lost in the pour, needing another one made 
for a 2nd casting??  And where can I get this material? I don't believe 
I have encountered such stuff before, so I'll be full of questions about 
how to use it.

Thanks Sarah.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] More news & ? from WV.

2016-08-17 Thread andy pugh 
On 17 August 2016 at 11:17, Sarah Armstrong
 wrote:
> but the newer
> composite form material it's easier to form by cnc
> and quicker than using wood and then treating the forms with resin or
> filler and sanding etc .

Yes, though not inexpensive:
http://www.easycomposites.co.uk/#!/patterns-moulds-and-tooling/pattern-making/high-density-polyurethane-foam-block.html

I use it when I can find it in the skip at work, though:
https://goo.gl/photos/rxtV24TFtkNS62u56
became:
https://goo.gl/photos/ivhb9TJeBoC45SFb6


-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] More news & ? from WV.

2016-08-17 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Wednesday 17 August 2016 05:29:37 andy pugh wrote:

> On 16 August 2016 at 23:49, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > The local casting shop seems to be using machined alu forms, and I
> > have seen no evidence they can take a pattern & do all the work to
> > make it sand castable. I haven't toured the whole place, so I've not
> > seen the furnace, just the casting finishing.  Wheels hubs for IH &
> > I believe White truck tractors.
>
> They are probably using match-plate patterns in a continuous line and
> won't be wanting to do one-offs.
>
> However, for any foundry using cope-and-drag there is no difference
> between making 1 and making 100, the process per casting is identical.
>
> Some possibilities here:
> http://wiki.vintagemachinery.org/FoundrySources.ashx

Marked, although only the last listed site worked today.  Do they have a 
NRE fee for onesies & twosies?

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] More news & ? from WV.

2016-08-17 Thread Sarah Armstrong 
i tend to use aluminium forms when i need to make hundereds and that when
some tollerance of fit is needed
more for robustnes , wooden forms are fine for one offs , but the newer
composite form material it's easier to form by cnc
and quicker than using wood and then treating the forms with resin or
filler and sanding etc .


On 17 August 2016 at 10:29, andy pugh  wrote:

> On 16 August 2016 at 23:49, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > The local casting shop seems to be using machined alu forms, and I have
> > seen no evidence they can take a pattern & do all the work to make it
> > sand castable. I haven't toured the whole place, so I've not seen the
> > furnace, just the casting finishing.  Wheels hubs for IH & I believe
> > White truck tractors.
>
> They are probably using match-plate patterns in a continuous line and
> won't be wanting to do one-offs.
>
> However, for any foundry using cope-and-drag there is no difference
> between making 1 and making 100, the process per casting is identical.
>
> Some possibilities here:
> http://wiki.vintagemachinery.org/FoundrySources.ashx
>
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
> 
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> Emc-users mailing list
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Re: [Emc-users] More news & ? from WV.

2016-08-17 Thread andy pugh 
On 16 August 2016 at 23:49, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> The local casting shop seems to be using machined alu forms, and I have
> seen no evidence they can take a pattern & do all the work to make it
> sand castable. I haven't toured the whole place, so I've not seen the
> furnace, just the casting finishing.  Wheels hubs for IH & I believe
> White truck tractors.

They are probably using match-plate patterns in a continuous line and
won't be wanting to do one-offs.

However, for any foundry using cope-and-drag there is no difference
between making 1 and making 100, the process per casting is identical.

Some possibilities here:
http://wiki.vintagemachinery.org/FoundrySources.ashx


-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] More news & ? from WV.

2016-08-16 Thread Gregg Eshelman 
The latest thing in metal casting is lost PLA sand casting. Have a model 3D 
printed in polylacticacid (PLA) plastic as a thin shell without any infill. All 
the sprues and vents are printed as part of the pattern.
The pattern can be rammed up in a single piece mold. No need to remove the 
pattern, no need to have draft on the pattern and you can do all kinds of funky 
stuff like undercuts and passages through without needing core inserts to cast 
around. Oil sand works better than green sand.

Pour in the molten metal and it burns out the PLA.

Or the PLA pattern can be coated in plaster or ceramic then burned out and cast 
using the same methods as lost wax.
Check out the cast stack of 7 sprockets 
http://depts.washington.edu/open3dp/2014/10/rapid-manufacturing-iteration-and-industry/

I bought a small 3D printer, it will soon have itself paid for with just one 
job making some replacement knobs for a 1940 Graham. I printed them out hollow, 
with ribs and holes inside to ensure the urethane resin filling will hold. I 
also designed and printed fixtures to hold rods in position to form pilot drill 
holes and for the gearshift knob a 3/8-16 bolt. They're in a pressure tank 
right now while the resin cures. That should have the resin forced into every 
little nook and cranny. The buyer will be doing the finish work of priming, 
sanding and painting. Why 3D print? Because the originals were too deteriorated 
to use for making silicone molds.

I also made them some Hudson items and pieces for a 1942 Desoto, including 
replicating the large, clear plastic hood ornament - but all those were done 
with regular silicone molds and casting.



 
  From: andy pugh <bodge...@gmail.com>
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> 
 Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 11:54 AM
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] More news & ? from WV.
   
On 16 August 2016 at 18:21, Gene Heskett <ghesk...@shentel.net> wrote:
> There's only one problem, the Z screw, if mounted where the old on is,
> will be nearly 3.5 inches from the back face, so I'll have to make a big
> long pad for the Z nut to interface with it.

Have you considered having a casting made? You seem to enjoy
woodworking, so pattern making shouldn't be too hard for you.

   
 
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Re: [Emc-users] More news & ? from WV.

2016-08-16 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Tuesday 16 August 2016 13:54:48 andy pugh wrote:

> On 16 August 2016 at 18:21, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > There's only one problem, the Z screw, if mounted where the old on
> > is, will be nearly 3.5 inches from the back face, so I'll have to
> > make a big long pad for the Z nut to interface with it.
>
> Have you considered having a casting made? You seem to enjoy
> woodworking, so pattern making shouldn't be too hard for you.

The local casting shop seems to be using machined alu forms, and I have 
seen no evidence they can take a pattern & do all the work to make it 
sand castable. I haven't toured the whole place, so I've not seen the 
furnace, just the casting finishing.  Wheels hubs for IH & I believe 
White truck tractors.

I got the apron cut out of the main sheet, then went out to get the 
verdict on my weed eater, which is that it will need a whole new 
cylinder, piston and rings.  Fred looked it up, and mine is 7 yo, so its 
2 years out of warranty.  He had some used Stihls he had rebuilt and 
offered a straight across trade for mine, take it home & try it. Nearly 
finished knocking the place down, but I don't like the small spool and 
steel cord re-enforced line, its a round cross section and bounces off 
the grass, running 2" above a straight out stand unless its wound up 
pretty tight for rpms. I'll keep it if we can put my spool on it, which 
is loaded with an even thicker, square, all plastic line that cuts much 
better as it cuts where you point it instead of 1 to 3" higher. 

But after that, my clothes have been condemned to the dirty clothes bin 
and I need a shower, bad.  Whats left I can finish tommorrow in 20 
minutes run time.  I the meantime I'll see about getting this plate 
mounted of the G0704 & the edges cleaned up and a cutaway for the 
crossfeed in the center of the top edge.  Good place for a home switch 
too.

I see nut carriers and spacers can be had on ebay, but I think I'd have 
to stack the spacers somehow.  Getting it screwed down so I can take 
some measurements for Z screw separation is in order after I cut the 
slot for the x motor to live in. 

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] More news & ? from WV.

2016-08-16 Thread andy pugh 
On 16 August 2016 at 18:21, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> There's only one problem, the Z screw, if mounted where the old on is,
> will be nearly 3.5 inches from the back face, so I'll have to make a big
> long pad for the Z nut to interface with it.

Have you considered having a casting made? You seem to enjoy
woodworking, so pattern making shouldn't be too hard for you.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] More news & ? from WV.

2016-08-16 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Tuesday 16 August 2016 11:41:37 andy pugh wrote:

> On 16 August 2016 at 16:02, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > Is that amount of
> > reduction fast enough for the ins and outs of a G76 threading
> > operation?
>
> The 9x20 lathe has a 1:1 geared NEMA23, and actually works fine.
> ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIYMfyf4jDI )
>
> > Thats neat, using the bikes timing chain cut to size.  Is that a
> > servo or a stepper behind the apron?
>
> It's a 900W servo. I decided not to mess about with that lathe :-)
> It's quite quick, and I haven't actually done much tuning yet (It
> probably ought to have cascaded PID as it runs torque-mode)

Well, I am trying to use what I "brung to the party" if I can.
IF I drill & tap the front of the saddle for half a dozen 6mm screws, and 
hang the new apron on the front of the saddle, I have enough room for a 
262 oz stepper if I cut the back shaft off. With a center cutout for the 
crossfeed, iot will come flush with the face of a half inch thick apron.
Projected size of the new apron is 11.5" long, 7" or a bit more high, & 
1/2" thick.  Its weathered quite a bit, so will need painted. Color? 
YTBD. :)

There's only one problem, the Z screw, if mounted where the old on is, 
will be nearly 3.5 inches from the back face, so I'll have to make a big 
long pad for the Z nut to interface with it.  I have an alu block or 2 
that will do that. The X screw handle housing can be cut back to where a 
timing pulley will align with one on the motor.  Do that while I am 
fitting it for bearings. Set a pulley ratio of 2/1 and it should still 
be fast enough for G76 threading.

The new apron will be somewhat ventilated as I'll take it out of the 
relatively clean center area of an ampex VR1200 deck plate which had 
some sort of inserts for screws installed in slightly bigger holes. None 
project above the face of the alu on either face.

So, since everything is being cut to fit, thats the next piece of this 
project. I'll need to plug a few holes where parts were mounted but 
thats NBD.

Everything else has to fit it.

As far as the top cover over the X screw goes, once I am driving it with 
the motor, (and this motor has been spun at 3k rpms on the table with a 
good high voltage supply) I'll run it to the back side limit, and saw 
off the surplus 8" with an angle grinder. Then cover the open top with a 
sheet of 1/8" alu. With a swarf shield hanging down to just below the 
rear end of the screw. I just tried to remove that crossfeed extension, 
but apparently the gibs are one piece so the dog screws have it solidly 
stuck.  Thats adjustable with the angle grinder of course.

Now, where did I stash the hacksaw blades for my saber saw... I'll cut it 
out, then make it neat on the mill. Including an oblong recess in the 
lower face the motor, with a jackscrew to adjust belt tension. Oops, 
that screw will need to be available from the front when its installed.  

Mental redesign of motor mount in progress. How about a total cutout 
1/32" wider than the motor to set a 1/8" thick slider with full length 
holddown strips on the front. A 1/16" deep, 1/4" wider than the cutout 
relief in the front of the cutout, and the 1/8" holdowns cleared 1/16" 
deep & 1/8" wide on the back face to guide the slider.   Slider long 
anough to cover the hole regardless of where the motor is pulled to. 
Fugly but with a draw screw from the bottom, it should work fine.

This will definitely keep me out of the bars for a while. ;-)

Thanks Andy, your pix made me think.  Where did you wind up putting the 
cable chain to carry motor power and limit/home switches?

I like it on the rear, but I'm not in love with carrying them across the 
saddle. But with the inevitable tool collection laying in the chip pan, 
down in front is a disaster waiting to happen, like cracking concrete.
 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] More news & ? from WV.

2016-08-16 Thread andy pugh 
On 16 August 2016 at 16:02, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> Is that amount of
> reduction fast enough for the ins and outs of a G76 threading operation?

The 9x20 lathe has a 1:1 geared NEMA23, and actually works fine.
( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIYMfyf4jDI )

> Thats neat, using the bikes timing chain cut to size.  Is that a servo or
> a stepper behind the apron?

It's a 900W servo. I decided not to mess about with that lathe :-)
It's quite quick, and I haven't actually done much tuning yet (It
probably ought to have cascaded PID as it runs torque-mode)


-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] More news & ? from WV.

2016-08-16 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Tuesday 16 August 2016 05:55:21 andy pugh wrote:

> On 16 August 2016 at 03:36, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > If anyone has links to pix I can steal ideas from, plz post them.
>
> I did have some that were embedded in a cnc-zone post, but it looks
> like that hosting service has disappeared, and taken the images with
> it.
>
> The trick I used on my mini-lathe was to have a relatively small
> toothed-belt pulley that could fit under the cross slide with a
> needle-roller to resist the belt tension, and then put the
> thrust-bearings rather further outboard in the manual-handle
> extension.

Both of these lathes can come out past the front of the carriage, but if 
I restricted that, no biggie. My thrust bearing is in the original shaft 
bearing, a set of ball washers in the little monster. What I haven't 
measured yet in the Sheldon is the room under the z screw to hide a 
short nema 34 motor like you did in that pix.  Is that amount of 
reduction fast enough for the ins and outs of a G76 threading operation?
Thats one of the considerations that made me put the motor on the rear of 
the little monster so I could direct drive a longer nema 23.  Rapids are 
right snappy, even the z with its 2/1 stepdown can make 60 ipm. Thats an 
8 wire, in parallel, 425oz motor, whereas the x is a 272, 8 wire, 
parallel.

> The Holbrook was easier because the cross-slide never came further
> than the front of the apron.
> https://goo.gl/photos/ZA19udQrNAoTnRUv7

Thats neat, using the bikes timing chain cut to size.  Is that a servo or 
a stepper behind the apron?

I need to take some pix so you all can see what I am up against here.  

The x screw was anchored at the far rear, on the taper attachments 
slider. All that is coming off, but unless I rebuild the x handle, 
thrust is not its strong point as it is connected to an extension of the 
X screw by its slotted shaft, with a hardened pin engaging the slot in 
the extension to turn the X screw. It essentially floats in the screwed 
into the saddle edge plain bearing.  With no heavy thrust, it has now 
worn.

I've ordered and have ball thrust washers for that handles shaft, and 
could buld a new shaft running on torrington rollers to take the side 
thrust, and if I build that shaft again, the pin drive and handle would 
leave, and another of my compression couplings could grab the shaft for 
both turn and thrust. And a gear on the inside end that can be driven by 
the gearshift in the apron.  Its very difficult, needing prybars, to 
effect that gear change, and the clutch is very weak, so that whole 
apron will be history. I may as well figure on moving it with the 
computer, or not at all.  If there's room on the back of a new apron for 
the motor, I believe thats what I'll do as it rather handily removes all 
the gingerbread of the taper attachment without creating a motor mount 
nightmare.

I'll go take another look/see as to making room for the torringtons in 
that screw in X handle carrier.  And how much room for a motor if that 
apron is replaced by some 1/2" alu I have.  Thats in the plans since its 
not usefull as is.

Thanks Andy.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] More news & ? from WV.

2016-08-16 Thread andy pugh 
On 16 August 2016 at 03:36, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> If anyone has links to pix I can steal ideas from, plz post them.

I did have some that were embedded in a cnc-zone post, but it looks
like that hosting service has disappeared, and taken the images with
it.

The trick I used on my mini-lathe was to have a relatively small
toothed-belt pulley that could fit under the cross slide with a
needle-roller to resist the belt tension, and then put the
thrust-bearings rather further outboard in the manual-handle
extension.
The Holbrook was easier because the cross-slide never came further
than the front of the apron.
https://goo.gl/photos/ZA19udQrNAoTnRUv7

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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