Re: [Emc-users] OT: Linux Security

2016-04-05 Thread Dave Cole 
I have two Windows XP PCs that are on 24x7 and live behind a 
firewall/router that has NAT.
I run Avast Antivirus on both of them.
I get a minor infection on each machine about once per year but between 
Avast and Malwarebytes that is quickly fixed.
By far most of the infected items I get are via email.   Just need to be 
careful what I click on.  Some of the spoof emails are getting to be 
pretty good.
I also have a Linux Server that runs a few webpages that has port 80 
open to the internet.I've never had a problem with that machine
for two years now.   It replaced a Windows Server box that was plagued 
by Virus'.

As far as backup goes;  Unless your files are in more than one place, 
you really don't have them secured.
Online backup is ok.  Google drive is pretty cheap.  But unless you have 
a really big hose to the interne, bandwidth may be a problem (it is for me).
Personally I think that plugging in a portable HD periodically and doing 
a backup and then depositing that hard drive into an offsite location 
(like a bank vault or different building) is
probably your best bet for mass data backup.   Don't keep the drive 
powered up all of the time.   What if you have a lightning hit  ??

Think worse case;  Like fire, flood, theft, tornado, lightning, etc.   
How would you recover from that??

Data loss has put many companies out of business.I have a friend who 
has a large sheetmetal shop and he was hit by a ransomware virus.   He 
thought he was screwed.
Fortunately he had everything backed up on Google drive and Google drive 
refused to sync the encrypted files.

Dave


On 4/5/2016 1:09 PM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 12:09:14 -0400
> tom-...@bgp.nu wrote:
>
>>> On Apr 5, 2016, at 11:52 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi  wrote:
>>>
>>> On Mon, 2016-04-04 at 14:00 -0400, Tom Easterday wrote:
 Always good to have a local backup as well, but offsite backup is 
 essential if you really care about the data.  With CrashPlan there is an 
 option, I believe, where they hold the key as well and can therefore 
 decrypt data if you happen to lose the key.
>>> I am not sure how to take this. It appears to me that if they hold the
>>> key, they hold your power, and I am not sure how this is good for your
>>> data security allowing them to look at your data.
>> Agreed, and that is why I choose to hold the key myself.  But, if you are 
>> willing to trust the company with your key (and hence data) and are afraid 
>> you will lose your key then that is an option for you.  You can think of the 
>> company hosting your data like a bank.  You are willing to give your money 
>> to a bank.  They could choose to steal your money at any moment (and it has 
>> happened), but that isn’t the normal course of business.
> Bank lend your money to other and the part not protected by government is 
> legally gone then bank get bankrupt.
>
> For me it would be of greater concern to lose key than for others to get a 
> copy. Illegal copies may be a concern but legal competition is worse.
>
>
> Nicklas Karlsson
>
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Linux Security

2016-04-05 Thread Nicklas Karlsson 
On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 12:09:14 -0400
tom-...@bgp.nu wrote:

> 
> > On Apr 5, 2016, at 11:52 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi  wrote:
> > 
> > On Mon, 2016-04-04 at 14:00 -0400, Tom Easterday wrote:
> >> Always good to have a local backup as well, but offsite backup is 
> >> essential if you really care about the data.  With CrashPlan there is an 
> >> option, I believe, where they hold the key as well and can therefore 
> >> decrypt data if you happen to lose the key.  
> > 
> > I am not sure how to take this. It appears to me that if they hold the
> > key, they hold your power, and I am not sure how this is good for your
> > data security allowing them to look at your data.
> 
> Agreed, and that is why I choose to hold the key myself.  But, if you are 
> willing to trust the company with your key (and hence data) and are afraid 
> you will lose your key then that is an option for you.  You can think of the 
> company hosting your data like a bank.  You are willing to give your money to 
> a bank.  They could choose to steal your money at any moment (and it has 
> happened), but that isn’t the normal course of business.

Bank lend your money to other and the part not protected by government is 
legally gone then bank get bankrupt.

For me it would be of greater concern to lose key than for others to get a 
copy. Illegal copies may be a concern but legal competition is worse.


Nicklas Karlsson

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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Linux Security

2016-04-05 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi 
On Tue, 2016-04-05 at 12:09 -0400, tom-...@bgp.nu wrote:
> > On Apr 5, 2016, at 11:52 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi  wrote:
> > 
> > On Mon, 2016-04-04 at 14:00 -0400, Tom Easterday wrote:
> >> Always good to have a local backup as well, but offsite backup is 
> >> essential if you really care about the data.  With CrashPlan there is an 
> >> option, I believe, where they hold the key as well and can therefore 
> >> decrypt data if you happen to lose the key.  
> > 
> > I am not sure how to take this. It appears to me that if they hold the
> > key, they hold your power, and I am not sure how this is good for your
> > data security allowing them to look at your data.
> 
> Agreed, and that is why I choose to hold the key myself.  But, if you are 
> willing to trust the company with your key (and hence data) and are afraid 
> you will lose your key then that is an option for you.  You can think of the 
> company hosting your data like a bank.  You are willing to give your money to 
> a bank.  They could choose to steal your money at any moment (and it has 
> happened), but that isn’t the normal course of business.

well ok, but I am more obligated than willing to give my money to a
bank, so I can understand if you chose that option,


> >> However, making sure you don't lose the key is not that difficult.  I have 
> >> the key in three locations (devices) so losing the key would be extremely 
> >> unlikely.
> > 
> > but it can also be stolen in 3 different places :-)
> 
> True that, if they can figure out the sentence that locks my password manager 
> :-)
> 
> -Tom

Beware about that, password managers get cracked too :-)




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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Linux Security

2016-04-05 Thread tom-emc 

> On Apr 5, 2016, at 11:52 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 2016-04-04 at 14:00 -0400, Tom Easterday wrote:
>> Always good to have a local backup as well, but offsite backup is essential 
>> if you really care about the data.  With CrashPlan there is an option, I 
>> believe, where they hold the key as well and can therefore decrypt data if 
>> you happen to lose the key.  
> 
> I am not sure how to take this. It appears to me that if they hold the
> key, they hold your power, and I am not sure how this is good for your
> data security allowing them to look at your data.

Agreed, and that is why I choose to hold the key myself.  But, if you are 
willing to trust the company with your key (and hence data) and are afraid you 
will lose your key then that is an option for you.  You can think of the 
company hosting your data like a bank.  You are willing to give your money to a 
bank.  They could choose to steal your money at any moment (and it has 
happened), but that isn’t the normal course of business.

>> However, making sure you don't lose the key is not that difficult.  I have 
>> the key in three locations (devices) so losing the key would be extremely 
>> unlikely.
> 
> but it can also be stolen in 3 different places :-)

True that, if they can figure out the sentence that locks my password manager 
:-)

-Tom


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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Linux Security

2016-04-05 Thread Mark 
On 04/05/2016 11:20 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
> On 04/05/2016 06:47 AM, Mark wrote:
>> On 04/04/2016 12:50 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
>>> At least Ubuntu is set up so that root cannot login from the
>>> net. Only user accounts can log in via the net, then you can
>>> use su or sudo to get the required privilege.
>>>
>>> Jon
>> If you really, really, really want to log in as root over the network
>> (not that I'd recommend it) all you need to do is uncomment the
>> "CONSOLE" variable in /etc/login.defs file
>>
>>
> Well, I sure WON'T, as many of the hacking attacks focus on
> that user ID.
>
> Jon
Me neither.  Just saying it can be done. ;-)

Mark

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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Linux Security

2016-04-05 Thread Jon Elson 
On 04/05/2016 06:47 AM, Mark wrote:
> On 04/04/2016 12:50 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
>>
>> At least Ubuntu is set up so that root cannot login from the
>> net. Only user accounts can log in via the net, then you can
>> use su or sudo to get the required privilege.
>>
>> Jon
> If you really, really, really want to log in as root over the network
> (not that I'd recommend it) all you need to do is uncomment the
> "CONSOLE" variable in /etc/login.defs file
>
>
Well, I sure WON'T, as many of the hacking attacks focus on 
that user ID.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Linux Security

2016-04-05 Thread Mark 
On 04/04/2016 12:50 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
> On 04/04/2016 09:54 AM, Jeff Epler wrote:
>> I don't think any of the common web or e-mail threats have payloads that
>> work on Linux anyway.  But if you have an open ssh port and your root
>> password is "root", you will end up with unwanted software installed,
>> such as an IRC server to control somebody's botnet...
>>
>>
> At least Ubuntu is set up so that root cannot login from the
> net. Only user accounts can log in via the net, then you can
> use su or sudo to get the required privilege.
>
> Jon
If you really, really, really want to log in as root over the network 
(not that I'd recommend it) all you need to do is uncomment the 
"CONSOLE" variable in /etc/login.defs file

Mark

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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Linux Security

2016-04-05 Thread Rick Lair 
This is all good info,

I do know we have a firewall setup on the router, much more than that, 
I'm not sure, and I don't really mess with that aspect of or system, I'm 
just responsible for the Linux machines,

As for the actual cnc machines, they are internet connected, but the 
operators do not do ANY browsing on them at all, they simply don't have 
the time, nor are allowed for that matter. My PC in the office is mainly 
what I was asking about, but all the conversation shed some light for me 
on the whole subject in general. The reason for being connected, was to 
simplify the programming aspect of things, now we don't have to worry 
about thumb drives for all of the machines laying around, we have 4 
Linuxcnc machines running daily, along with roughly a dozen other CNC's, 
and only 1 person doing the programming. So being "connected" allows him 
to sit at his desk, make the program, drop it in the respective nc_files 
folder for whatever machine he is making the program for, and move on to 
his next program,

Now that I built a PC using Mint, I have the only Linux based PC in the 
shop, that will be used for my daily computer, and that was the reason 
for asking about what safeguards I should worry about in regards to 
security. That and the fact that I like the Mint OS using Mate, so much, 
that I am going to build a PC for my home personal use, and am concerned 
about security for that as well, but that is a different animal all 
together, because at home we use our Blackberry smartphones as wifi 
hotspots to access the net on our laptop. So I don't use a router at 
home, and will need to figure out how to setup a firewall for that when 
I get to that point.


-- 
Thanks


Rick Lair
Superior Roll & Turning LLC
399 East Center Street
Petersburg MI, 49270
PH: 734-279-1831
FAX: 734-279-1166
www.superiorroll.com


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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Linux Security

2016-04-04 Thread Jack Coats 
It isn't that Linux isn't a target.  It is.  Just not as 'popular' a
target.  There are antivirus that can be run on Linux, but they tend to
focus on PC virus, partly because Linux is used often as storage server,
and scanning the users files is a reasonable thing to do.

In my experience, Linux is more likely hacked if it is used 'open' with
access to the internet.  Good admins will firewall it (internally at a
minimum) and only allow ports and services to run that are known and
understood.  Yes, I got caught with an to-open server (when I was first
getting into Linux/UNIX)  and hacker got in.  It wasn't a 'virus' or
'malware', it was un-configured ports/services that were not closed down
that allowed them to get in.  ...  Formatting the disk and re-installing
with network access nailed down solved my problems, but I didn't have much
on that machine at the time, so all was good ... it was painful, but good.

The hacks I have had that have been successful since then are basically
users allowing malware malware in by going to 'bad' web sites.

Windows is still the most popular target.  Apple equipment next, and yes,
there have been found one or two virus found that target Linux.  Thankfully
the Linux virus don't seem to spread as fast.  Malware, especially web
based, is more prevalent that anything else I have found.

Still, air gapped machines (not internet connected) are more secure from
outside attacks than others.  If not going that far, put a good firewall or
two in the way before getting to the internet.  But you still need to
configure the firewalls well and maintain them.

Will this make for 'perfect' solutions?  No.  But it is better than most.
I am sure there are others with better ideas, but doing this won't be
totally wrong, but most solutions have problems somewhere in them, whether
the problem is easily or currently known or not.

Just my suggestions. ... Now back to your regularly scheduled program.
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Linux Security

2016-04-04 Thread Tom Easterday 
This is the same argument often heard in regards to MacOS in the late 90s and 
early 00s when Windows was rife with viruses.  In fact the reason MacOS was 
more secure then and Linux is (still) secure has more to do with the CERT and 
the development model of Unix itself (from whence MacOS 10 came) than it does 
with the shear number of people hacking.  Of course the more hacking on a 
specific platform the more likely a bug is uncovered but security through 
obscurity is not a reason to feel secure and never has been.  Open models of 
bugs being uncovered and reported along with constant updating of OSes is what 
has kept Unix (Linux and MaOS) in the "less frequently hacked" or "more quickly 
remedied hack" compared with Windows overall.  It is a good idea no matter what 
OS you run to use precautions as have already been mentioned in this thread 
then to believe you are safe because you are running Linux.
-Tom

> On Apr 4, 2016, at 7:06 PM, Jack Coats  wrote:
> 
> I have used Linux for a long time.  If you don't go 'trolling' un-trusted
> web sites and using email on the same computer you use for EMC,
> there is no need to worry.
> 
> Why?  Linux is a 'less valuable' target for hackers than commodity windows
> and even Apple machines.  There are also fewer of them in general use by
> individuals.  The number of servers or specialty computers is pretty high
> (embedded systems, machine control, servers, 'background' data center
> machines, web servers, even routers and firewalls) but tend to be a little
> harder to hack if set up well.
> 
> I would suggest not using your EMC machine for general web surfing or
> email.  Use the browser for needed updates or reporting problems, but keep
> non-EMC use off.
> 
> I DO suggest to have it behind a firewall.  If you can live with it, think
> about removing the ethernet attachment (unplug the wire) unless it is
> absolutely needed for a short time (i.e. maintenance, etc).
> 
> Let us know what you decide.
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Linux Security

2016-04-04 Thread Jack Coats 
I have used Linux for a long time.  If you don't go 'trolling' un-trusted
web sites and using email on the same computer you use for EMC,
there is no need to worry.

Why?  Linux is a 'less valuable' target for hackers than commodity windows
and even Apple machines.  There are also fewer of them in general use by
individuals.  The number of servers or specialty computers is pretty high
(embedded systems, machine control, servers, 'background' data center
machines, web servers, even routers and firewalls) but tend to be a little
harder to hack if set up well.

I would suggest not using your EMC machine for general web surfing or
email.  Use the browser for needed updates or reporting problems, but keep
non-EMC use off.

I DO suggest to have it behind a firewall.  If you can live with it, think
about removing the ethernet attachment (unplug the wire) unless it is
absolutely needed for a short time (i.e. maintenance, etc).

Let us know what you decide.
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Linux Security

2016-04-04 Thread Tom Easterday 
Then don't encrypt or select the option to allow the company to hold the key as 
well...

> On Apr 4, 2016, at 2:51 PM, Nicklas Karlsson  
> wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 4 Apr 2016 14:00:42 -0400
> Tom Easterday  wrote:
> 
>> Always good to have a local backup as well, but offsite backup is essential 
>> if you really care about the data.  With CrashPlan there is an option, I 
>> believe, where they hold the key as well and can therefore decrypt data if 
>> you happen to lose the key.  
>> 
>> However, making sure you don't lose the key is not that difficult.  I have 
>> the key in three locations (devices) so losing the key would be extremely 
>> unlikely.
> 
> Most if not all of my data is of very limited value for others so for me the 
> risk of a lost key is of great concern.
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Linux Security

2016-04-04 Thread Nicklas Karlsson 
On Mon, 4 Apr 2016 14:00:42 -0400
Tom Easterday  wrote:

> Always good to have a local backup as well, but offsite backup is essential 
> if you really care about the data.  With CrashPlan there is an option, I 
> believe, where they hold the key as well and can therefore decrypt data if 
> you happen to lose the key.  
> 
> However, making sure you don't lose the key is not that difficult.  I have 
> the key in three locations (devices) so losing the key would be extremely 
> unlikely.

Most if not all of my data is of very limited value for others so for me the 
risk of a lost key is of great concern.

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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Linux Security

2016-04-04 Thread Tom Easterday 
Always good to have a local backup as well, but offsite backup is essential if 
you really care about the data.  With CrashPlan there is an option, I believe, 
where they hold the key as well and can therefore decrypt data if you happen to 
lose the key.  

However, making sure you don't lose the key is not that difficult.  I have the 
key in three locations (devices) so losing the key would be extremely unlikely.
-Tom

> On Apr 4, 2016, at 11:30 AM, Nicklas Karlsson  
> wrote:
> 
> I would consider lost key quite a serious risk. I have copy of files I worked 
> on the last months on CD/DVD or whatever they name the disks nowaday.
> 
> If computer break down or does not work for other reason i install the 
> software again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, 4 Apr 2016 11:00:35 -0400
> Tom Easterday  wrote:
> 
>> For offsite backup I would highly recommend of CrashPlan.  It works on Mac, 
>> Win, and Linux.  It allows for strong private key encryption of all data 
>> during backup and on the servers.   Recovery of files is easy and since you 
>> are downloading it is usually quite fast assuming you have fast internet 
>> access.   It takes a while (days or even weeks) for the initial backup to 
>> complete but once there incrementals happens in the background.
>> 
>> -Tom
>> 
>>> On Apr 4, 2016, at 10:49 AM, Rick Lair  wrote:
>>> 
>>> So what would you recommend on my desktop PC in my office, that I do 
>>> everything on, that I just converted over to Linux Mint?
>>> 
>>> Rick
>>> 
 On 04/04/2016 10:43 AM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
 A backup of important files stored at other location or other place not 
 likely to be affected by the same misshap is always good.
 
 
 On Mon, 4 Apr 2016 07:33:21 -0700
 Jerry Scharf  wrote:
 
> Rick,
> 
> The family of software you mentioned are there to try to protect you when
> you bring new things onto the machine.
> 
> Anti-virus is for finding bad programs that have been added to the 
> machine.
> If you stick to only installing things that are downloaded from the debian
> distro and things you can vouch for yourself, then this becomes a
> non-issue. If you are loading up many random tools on the machine, then it
> may become an issue.
> 
> Now comes the bad news about anti-virus. They offer marginal protection at
> best. It's not that they don't work, it's that its a complex target and
> there is only so much that can be found in file signatures.
> 
> The best safety comes from caution. Don't load anything on the linux-cnc
> machine that doesn't need to be there. Don't have a browser on that
> machine. Do minimal development on the machine and only with well trusted
> tools. Vet everything extra you load onto the machines and keep up with 
> the
> disrto security patches. Don't stick a thumb drive into the machine unless
> you personally formatted it on a clean machine.
> 
> FWIW, I don't run ant-virus on my machines.
> 
> jerry
> 
> 
>> On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 6:55 AM, Rick Lair  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Guys,
>> 
>> Is there any need for any anti-virus/malware/spyware software on my
>> linux machines, I have never thought about, but last week I switched my
>> desktop over to Mint from XP, and wasn't sure what security measures are
>> needed, I wasn't ever really concerned about the CNC's, but now with my
>> desktop, it got me wondering.
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> Rick
>> 
>> 
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> 
> -- 
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> 650.279.7017 m
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>>> 
>>> 
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Linux Security

2016-04-04 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Monday 04 April 2016 10:43:10 Nicklas Karlsson wrote:

> A backup of important files stored at other location or other place
> not likely to be affected by the same misshap is always good.
>
>
I'll second that.  amanda grabs the lcnc related stuff from all of my 
machines, and all of this machine, nightly.  Peace of mind you can't get 
out of a pill bottle.

> On Mon, 4 Apr 2016 07:33:21 -0700
>
> Jerry Scharf  wrote:
> > Rick,
> >
> > The family of software you mentioned are there to try to protect you
> > when you bring new things onto the machine.
> >
> > Anti-virus is for finding bad programs that have been added to the
> > machine. If you stick to only installing things that are downloaded
> > from the debian distro and things you can vouch for yourself, then
> > this becomes a non-issue. If you are loading up many random tools on
> > the machine, then it may become an issue.
> >
> > Now comes the bad news about anti-virus. They offer marginal
> > protection at best. It's not that they don't work, it's that its a
> > complex target and there is only so much that can be found in file
> > signatures.
> >
> > The best safety comes from caution. Don't load anything on the
> > linux-cnc machine that doesn't need to be there. Don't have a
> > browser on that machine. Do minimal development on the machine and
> > only with well trusted tools. Vet everything extra you load onto the
> > machines and keep up with the disrto security patches. Don't stick a
> > thumb drive into the machine unless you personally formatted it on a
> > clean machine.
> >
> > FWIW, I don't run ant-virus on my machines.
> >
> > jerry
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 6:55 AM, Rick Lair  
wrote:
> > > Hello Guys,
> > >
> > > Is there any need for any anti-virus/malware/spyware software on
> > > my linux machines, I have never thought about, but last week I
> > > switched my desktop over to Mint from XP, and wasn't sure what
> > > security measures are needed, I wasn't ever really concerned about
> > > the CNC's, but now with my desktop, it got me wondering.
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Rick
> > >
> > >
> > > --
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> >
> > --
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> > 
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Linux Security

2016-04-04 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Monday 04 April 2016 09:55:16 Rick Lair wrote:

> Hello Guys,
>
> Is there any need for any anti-virus/malware/spyware software on my
> linux machines, I have never thought about, but last week I switched
> my desktop over to Mint from XP, and wasn't sure what security
> measures are needed, I wasn't ever really concerned about the CNC's,
> but now with my desktop, it got me wondering.
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Rick
>
I long since offloaded the security stuff to my router, which has a 
generous sized flash memory, a Netgear something or other 3500 box.  Its 
running the best guard dog ever, as its been reflashed to DD-WRT.  
Nothing from the outside comes in except what has been asked for, or 
access to my web page which is in its own sandbox on what most would 
think is an odd port number. I've been using DD-WRT in some box or other 
for close to a decade and have not been bothered. My web page hasn't 
been touched while it has generated nearly 20Gb a month in traffic for 
the last several months. In house, aka this side of the router, selinux 
and its ilk has been nuked.  I have sshfs shares to the other 4 
machines, replacing the troublesome NFS shares, which beat samba/cifs 
like a white mouthed mule, and an ssh -Y login session to each of them 
running. No login, but ssh key sharing.  And the only other sharp teeth 
running is portsentry.  But no one has gotten close enough to make that 
dog bark in about 3 years since I installed it.  It Just Works(TM).

How much of that would, or could be made to work with windows I can't say  
as there are no windows running machines on the premises. But I'd think 
a windows box would be safe, depending of course on some common sense as 
to what was clicked on.  I do run the clamav suite, over incoming email 
all the time, and over the other 3 most active directories daily.

Incoming scan has nuked one of undefined purpose, 2 adverts from my bank 
that had what I think is an FP, and 2 messages from the clamav list that 
carried the same FPs as attachments. 76k, last updated on the 31st of 
March.  Shrug.  Its working 99.9% of the time. And I like DD-WRT, it's a 
good guard dog that only needs 25 cents worth of electricity as its 
monthly feeding.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Linux Security

2016-04-04 Thread Chris Albertson 
You certainly do not need to BUY any additional software.  But you do need
to set up the Linux machine reasonably.  Mostly this means

1.  Never use an admin login account for normal work.  Set yourself up as a
normal user then use "su" or whatever to do what you need.

2. use good passwords on all your accounts

3. keep current backups that are disconnected and at least one off site
backup

4. the built-in firewall is good, enable it or learn how to deny access to
services from computers not on your local network.  If you have a fire wall
built into your router that is even better as it works for your entire home
network

If you were running a Linux server that is exposed to the Internet directly
(say a public web server) there is a lot more you could do





On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 6:55 AM, Rick Lair  wrote:

> Hello Guys,
>
> Is there any need for any anti-virus/malware/spyware software on my
> linux machines, I have never thought about, but last week I switched my
> desktop over to Mint from XP, and wasn't sure what security measures are
> needed, I wasn't ever really concerned about the CNC's, but now with my
> desktop, it got me wondering.
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Rick
>
>
> --
> ___
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>



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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Linux Security

2016-04-04 Thread Jon Elson 
On 04/04/2016 10:00 AM, Tom Easterday wrote:
> For offsite backup I would highly recommend of CrashPlan.  It works on Mac, 
> Win, and Linux.  It allows for strong private key encryption of all data 
> during backup and on the servers.   Recovery of files is easy and since you 
> are downloading it is usually quite fast assuming you have fast internet 
> access.   It takes a while (days or even weeks) for the initial backup to 
> complete but once there incrementals happens in the background.
>
>
If you are totally down, a cloud backup with forgotten 
passwords might be useless.  A local backup on DVDs can be 
useful when you need to go back many months to find a file 
that was deleted or altered.  And, DVDs really don't take up 
much space.  Looks like I may have to go to blu-ray pretty 
soon, the volume of accumulated stuff seems to be expanding.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Linux Security

2016-04-04 Thread Jon Elson 
On 04/04/2016 09:54 AM, Jeff Epler wrote:
>
> I don't think any of the common web or e-mail threats have payloads that
> work on Linux anyway.  But if you have an open ssh port and your root
> password is "root", you will end up with unwanted software installed,
> such as an IRC server to control somebody's botnet...
>
>
At least Ubuntu is set up so that root cannot login from the 
net. Only user accounts can log in via the net, then you can 
use su or sudo to get the required privilege.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Linux Security

2016-04-04 Thread Jon Elson 
On 04/04/2016 09:49 AM, Rick Lair wrote:
> So what would you recommend on my desktop PC in my office, that I do
> everything on, that I just converted over to Linux Mint?
>
>
Is it behind a firewall?  Does it use NAT, so the desktop 
has no WAN address?  That's the best security.
Use good passwords, and only have one user account on the 
machine. If you never need to get into it from other 
machines, turn off sshd.

Now, for the firewall machine, the best thing in the world 
is denyhosts.  I used to get 1000+ ssh login attempts a 
day!  Then, I put in denyhosts, which watches the log for 
login failures.  i set it quite restrictively, so that 3 
failed logins from any specific IP within a month causes 
that IP to be added to the hosts.deny file, and stay there 
for a year.  Very interestingly, exactly, TO THE HOUR, 2 
weeks after I set this up, the attacks dropped from 1000 a 
day to 3!  So, they used a wide range of compromised botnet 
nodes to find out what the time horizon of hosts.deny was 
set to.  When it was seen to be over 2 weeks, they sent out 
the word somehow that my IP was not worth expending any 
effort on.

Then, on the firewall machine, also have an absolute minimum 
number of user accounts, and make sure none of them have 
names like bob or alice.  Names like this are the things 
they try.

That's how I'm doing it.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Linux Security

2016-04-04 Thread Jon Elson 
On 04/04/2016 08:55 AM, Rick Lair wrote:
> Hello Guys,
>
> Is there any need for any anti-virus/malware/spyware software on my
> linux machines, I have never thought about, but last week I switched my
> desktop over to Mint from XP, and wasn't sure what security measures are
> needed, I wasn't ever really concerned about the CNC's, but now with my
> desktop, it got me wondering.
>
Is there a need to enable sshd?  Probably, if you want to 
transfer .ngc files to it.
But, just have one user ID able to log in remotely, and keep 
it behind a firewall with NAT.
That should be pretty secure.

I don't have any anti-virus software here, not sure any of 
that stuff actually works against a code that would actually 
affect a Linux system.  Searching against tables of Windows 
virus' seems pointless.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Linux Security

2016-04-04 Thread Nicklas Karlsson 
I would consider lost key quite a serious risk. I have copy of files I worked 
on the last months on CD/DVD or whatever they name the disks nowaday.

If computer break down or does not work for other reason i install the software 
again.




On Mon, 4 Apr 2016 11:00:35 -0400
Tom Easterday  wrote:

> For offsite backup I would highly recommend of CrashPlan.  It works on Mac, 
> Win, and Linux.  It allows for strong private key encryption of all data 
> during backup and on the servers.   Recovery of files is easy and since you 
> are downloading it is usually quite fast assuming you have fast internet 
> access.   It takes a while (days or even weeks) for the initial backup to 
> complete but once there incrementals happens in the background.
> 
> -Tom
> 
> > On Apr 4, 2016, at 10:49 AM, Rick Lair  wrote:
> > 
> > So what would you recommend on my desktop PC in my office, that I do 
> > everything on, that I just converted over to Linux Mint?
> > 
> > Rick
> > 
> >> On 04/04/2016 10:43 AM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> >> A backup of important files stored at other location or other place not 
> >> likely to be affected by the same misshap is always good.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On Mon, 4 Apr 2016 07:33:21 -0700
> >> Jerry Scharf  wrote:
> >> 
> >>> Rick,
> >>> 
> >>> The family of software you mentioned are there to try to protect you when
> >>> you bring new things onto the machine.
> >>> 
> >>> Anti-virus is for finding bad programs that have been added to the 
> >>> machine.
> >>> If you stick to only installing things that are downloaded from the debian
> >>> distro and things you can vouch for yourself, then this becomes a
> >>> non-issue. If you are loading up many random tools on the machine, then it
> >>> may become an issue.
> >>> 
> >>> Now comes the bad news about anti-virus. They offer marginal protection at
> >>> best. It's not that they don't work, it's that its a complex target and
> >>> there is only so much that can be found in file signatures.
> >>> 
> >>> The best safety comes from caution. Don't load anything on the linux-cnc
> >>> machine that doesn't need to be there. Don't have a browser on that
> >>> machine. Do minimal development on the machine and only with well trusted
> >>> tools. Vet everything extra you load onto the machines and keep up with 
> >>> the
> >>> disrto security patches. Don't stick a thumb drive into the machine unless
> >>> you personally formatted it on a clean machine.
> >>> 
> >>> FWIW, I don't run ant-virus on my machines.
> >>> 
> >>> jerry
> >>> 
> >>> 
>  On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 6:55 AM, Rick Lair  wrote:
>  
>  Hello Guys,
>  
>  Is there any need for any anti-virus/malware/spyware software on my
>  linux machines, I have never thought about, but last week I switched my
>  desktop over to Mint from XP, and wasn't sure what security measures are
>  needed, I wasn't ever really concerned about the CNC's, but now with my
>  desktop, it got me wondering.
>  
>  
>  Thanks
>  
>  Rick
>  
>  
>  --
>  ___
>  Emc-users mailing list
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> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> -- 
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> >>> FINsix IT
> >>> 650.285.6361 w
> >>> 650.279.7017 m
> >>> --
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> >>> Emc-users mailing list
> >>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
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> > 
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Linux Security

2016-04-04 Thread Tom Easterday 
For offsite backup I would highly recommend of CrashPlan.  It works on Mac, 
Win, and Linux.  It allows for strong private key encryption of all data during 
backup and on the servers.   Recovery of files is easy and since you are 
downloading it is usually quite fast assuming you have fast internet access.   
It takes a while (days or even weeks) for the initial backup to complete but 
once there incrementals happens in the background.

-Tom

> On Apr 4, 2016, at 10:49 AM, Rick Lair  wrote:
> 
> So what would you recommend on my desktop PC in my office, that I do 
> everything on, that I just converted over to Linux Mint?
> 
> Rick
> 
>> On 04/04/2016 10:43 AM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
>> A backup of important files stored at other location or other place not 
>> likely to be affected by the same misshap is always good.
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, 4 Apr 2016 07:33:21 -0700
>> Jerry Scharf  wrote:
>> 
>>> Rick,
>>> 
>>> The family of software you mentioned are there to try to protect you when
>>> you bring new things onto the machine.
>>> 
>>> Anti-virus is for finding bad programs that have been added to the machine.
>>> If you stick to only installing things that are downloaded from the debian
>>> distro and things you can vouch for yourself, then this becomes a
>>> non-issue. If you are loading up many random tools on the machine, then it
>>> may become an issue.
>>> 
>>> Now comes the bad news about anti-virus. They offer marginal protection at
>>> best. It's not that they don't work, it's that its a complex target and
>>> there is only so much that can be found in file signatures.
>>> 
>>> The best safety comes from caution. Don't load anything on the linux-cnc
>>> machine that doesn't need to be there. Don't have a browser on that
>>> machine. Do minimal development on the machine and only with well trusted
>>> tools. Vet everything extra you load onto the machines and keep up with the
>>> disrto security patches. Don't stick a thumb drive into the machine unless
>>> you personally formatted it on a clean machine.
>>> 
>>> FWIW, I don't run ant-virus on my machines.
>>> 
>>> jerry
>>> 
>>> 
 On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 6:55 AM, Rick Lair  wrote:
 
 Hello Guys,
 
 Is there any need for any anti-virus/malware/spyware software on my
 linux machines, I have never thought about, but last week I switched my
 desktop over to Mint from XP, and wasn't sure what security measures are
 needed, I wasn't ever really concerned about the CNC's, but now with my
 desktop, it got me wondering.
 
 
 Thanks
 
 Rick
 
 
 --
 ___
 Emc-users mailing list
 Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Jerry Scharf
>>> FINsix IT
>>> 650.285.6361 w
>>> 650.279.7017 m
>>> --
>>> ___
>>> Emc-users mailing list
>>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>> --
>> ___
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> 
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Linux Security

2016-04-04 Thread Jeff Epler 
Here are the security measures I use on my Linux machines:

 * Have a back-up plan so that you can restore your computer after
   a problem (not limited to finding malware, but more likely problems
   such as a failed disk/SSD)
 * Firewall that allows incoming connections only on specific
   whitelisted TCP ports (and all outgoing traffic)
 * For me, one of those ports is ssh, so strong passwords on all
   accounts.  Other ssh hardening options include allowing only a
   restricted list of users to ssh, and requiring the use of ssh public
   key authentication. (man sshd_config)
 * Keep packages up to date with security updates, particularly the web
   browser
 * Browser:
- stay up to date (I use release channel from http://mozilla.debian.net/)
- Use ad blocking software (I favor ublock0, choose your own filter
  preferences)
- Set flash plugins to not play by default
- consider a browser add-on that can enable/disable javascript per
  site (this helps more with web nuisances like pop-up "sign up for
  our mailing list" than with avoiding malware installation)
- If you're on a system that is out of support, don't browse the web
  on it
 * E-mail:
- Use aggressive spam filtering
- disable any functionality to auto-show attachments, auto-load
  remote images, etc
- use a text-mode e-mail client for extra geek cred
- If you're on a system that is out of support, don't read e-mail
  on it
 * Don't allow untrusted machines on the local network / WIFI
- Some WIFI access points can create multiple separate networks, so
  you can have a trusted wifi + ethernet and an un-trusted wifi

I don't think any of the common web or e-mail threats have payloads that
work on Linux anyway.  But if you have an open ssh port and your root
password is "root", you will end up with unwanted software installed,
such as an IRC server to control somebody's botnet...

Jeff

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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Linux Security

2016-04-04 Thread Rick Lair 
So what would you recommend on my desktop PC in my office, that I do 
everything on, that I just converted over to Linux Mint?

Rick

On 04/04/2016 10:43 AM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> A backup of important files stored at other location or other place not 
> likely to be affected by the same misshap is always good.
>
>
> On Mon, 4 Apr 2016 07:33:21 -0700
> Jerry Scharf  wrote:
>
>> Rick,
>>
>> The family of software you mentioned are there to try to protect you when
>> you bring new things onto the machine.
>>
>> Anti-virus is for finding bad programs that have been added to the machine.
>> If you stick to only installing things that are downloaded from the debian
>> distro and things you can vouch for yourself, then this becomes a
>> non-issue. If you are loading up many random tools on the machine, then it
>> may become an issue.
>>
>> Now comes the bad news about anti-virus. They offer marginal protection at
>> best. It's not that they don't work, it's that its a complex target and
>> there is only so much that can be found in file signatures.
>>
>> The best safety comes from caution. Don't load anything on the linux-cnc
>> machine that doesn't need to be there. Don't have a browser on that
>> machine. Do minimal development on the machine and only with well trusted
>> tools. Vet everything extra you load onto the machines and keep up with the
>> disrto security patches. Don't stick a thumb drive into the machine unless
>> you personally formatted it on a clean machine.
>>
>> FWIW, I don't run ant-virus on my machines.
>>
>> jerry
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 6:55 AM, Rick Lair  wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Guys,
>>>
>>> Is there any need for any anti-virus/malware/spyware software on my
>>> linux machines, I have never thought about, but last week I switched my
>>> desktop over to Mint from XP, and wasn't sure what security measures are
>>> needed, I wasn't ever really concerned about the CNC's, but now with my
>>> desktop, it got me wondering.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Rick
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ___
>>> Emc-users mailing list
>>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Jerry Scharf
>> FINsix IT
>> 650.285.6361 w
>> 650.279.7017 m
>> --
>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> --
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Linux Security

2016-04-04 Thread Nicklas Karlsson 
A backup of important files stored at other location or other place not likely 
to be affected by the same misshap is always good.


On Mon, 4 Apr 2016 07:33:21 -0700
Jerry Scharf  wrote:

> Rick,
> 
> The family of software you mentioned are there to try to protect you when
> you bring new things onto the machine.
> 
> Anti-virus is for finding bad programs that have been added to the machine.
> If you stick to only installing things that are downloaded from the debian
> distro and things you can vouch for yourself, then this becomes a
> non-issue. If you are loading up many random tools on the machine, then it
> may become an issue.
> 
> Now comes the bad news about anti-virus. They offer marginal protection at
> best. It's not that they don't work, it's that its a complex target and
> there is only so much that can be found in file signatures.
> 
> The best safety comes from caution. Don't load anything on the linux-cnc
> machine that doesn't need to be there. Don't have a browser on that
> machine. Do minimal development on the machine and only with well trusted
> tools. Vet everything extra you load onto the machines and keep up with the
> disrto security patches. Don't stick a thumb drive into the machine unless
> you personally formatted it on a clean machine.
> 
> FWIW, I don't run ant-virus on my machines.
> 
> jerry
> 
> 
> On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 6:55 AM, Rick Lair  wrote:
> 
> > Hello Guys,
> >
> > Is there any need for any anti-virus/malware/spyware software on my
> > linux machines, I have never thought about, but last week I switched my
> > desktop over to Mint from XP, and wasn't sure what security measures are
> > needed, I wasn't ever really concerned about the CNC's, but now with my
> > desktop, it got me wondering.
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Rick
> >
> >
> > --
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jerry Scharf
> FINsix IT
> 650.285.6361 w
> 650.279.7017 m
> --
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Linux Security

2016-04-04 Thread Jerry Scharf 
Rick,

The family of software you mentioned are there to try to protect you when
you bring new things onto the machine.

Anti-virus is for finding bad programs that have been added to the machine.
If you stick to only installing things that are downloaded from the debian
distro and things you can vouch for yourself, then this becomes a
non-issue. If you are loading up many random tools on the machine, then it
may become an issue.

Now comes the bad news about anti-virus. They offer marginal protection at
best. It's not that they don't work, it's that its a complex target and
there is only so much that can be found in file signatures.

The best safety comes from caution. Don't load anything on the linux-cnc
machine that doesn't need to be there. Don't have a browser on that
machine. Do minimal development on the machine and only with well trusted
tools. Vet everything extra you load onto the machines and keep up with the
disrto security patches. Don't stick a thumb drive into the machine unless
you personally formatted it on a clean machine.

FWIW, I don't run ant-virus on my machines.

jerry


On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 6:55 AM, Rick Lair  wrote:

> Hello Guys,
>
> Is there any need for any anti-virus/malware/spyware software on my
> linux machines, I have never thought about, but last week I switched my
> desktop over to Mint from XP, and wasn't sure what security measures are
> needed, I wasn't ever really concerned about the CNC's, but now with my
> desktop, it got me wondering.
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Rick
>
>
> --
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> Emc-users mailing list
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Linux Security

2016-04-04 Thread Nicklas Karlsson 
For spyware I guess it depend. If you market the machined parts they could it 
see them in the broschure or wherever you put them anyway.

On Mon, 4 Apr 2016 09:55:16 -0400
Rick Lair  wrote:

> Hello Guys,
> 
> Is there any need for any anti-virus/malware/spyware software on my 
> linux machines, I have never thought about, but last week I switched my 
> desktop over to Mint from XP, and wasn't sure what security measures are 
> needed, I wasn't ever really concerned about the CNC's, but now with my 
> desktop, it got me wondering.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Rick
> 
> --
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