and is generally bad news.
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navigation.
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On Wed, 14 Jan 2015, Boris Zbarsky wrote:
On 1/14/15 3:17 PM, Ian Hickson wrote:
It's more than that. It's how the HTML spec defines WindowProxy.
The point is, the HTML spec's definition is not expressible in ES terms.
So how do go about bridging this gap?
I don't understand what you
out there.)
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be purely an editorial
change, it wouldn't change the implementations.
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On Mon, 29 Sep 2014, Anne van Kesteren wrote:
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 8:18 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote:
I certainly wouldn't object to the ES spec's event loop algorithms
being turned inside out (search for RunCode on the esdiscuss thread
above for an e-mail where I propose
On Wed, 10 Sep 2014, Rob Sayre wrote:
On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote:
On Fri, 29 Aug 2014, David Herman wrote:
It's still not completely clear to me what your use cases are, so
I'm not sure exactly how much user-visible API you need.
My goal
On Thu, 11 Sep 2014, Brendan Eich wrote:
Ian Hickson wrote:
I must admit though that while I initially assumed that this would be an
obvious goal that browser vendors would all be eager to reach, I have yet
to see anyone indicate that they're interested in this. So maybe it is in
fact
things like
this; it would let me spec a dependency system people are asking for for
subresources of HTML documents without having to worry about integrating
with CSS and ES6. :-)
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. they could just hook into existing CSS style sheet
loads rather than having to do separately load style sheets mentioned in
ES6 modules).
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Things
.
(ServiceWorkers are an important part of the upcoming revolution in
resource loading on the Web, but dependency handling is at a different
level, namely, the ES6 loader level.)
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of a subclass of
in C# and modern Pascals, FWIW. Perl uses isa for this.
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be maintained from earlier in the cycle, and be
mutable (write-only would be fine, assuming you can remove dependencies;
there's no need, IMHO, to expose the actual dependency chain to script).
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-policy=when-needed
/script
...
// in some script or event handler or some such
document.scripts.a.load(); // a is now needed, a and c get fetched in
// parallel with only one RTT.
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to imagine them putting it in an HTML import,
say. Something that would allow them to have the dependency chain, without
blocking the initial page load.
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.
Right. I'm trying to set up the groundwork to add such features to HTML.
I think you are imagining a magical trigger that does not exist.
That more or less summarises my job, yeah. :-)
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On Wed, 20 Aug 2014, John Barton wrote:
On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 3:23 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote:
On Wed, 20 Aug 2014, John Barton wrote:
The reverse case, where a img depends on a script, is not a use
case.
Why not? What if the image has an onmouseover handler
On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 4:06 PM, John Barton johnjbar...@google.com wrote:
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 10:43 AM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote:
This just doens't work.
Suppose the dependency graph looks like this:
Feature A -- Dependency A1 \__\ Dependency\
Feature B
/foo.x;,
CSS}. Regular imports wouldn't key anything, so that in the case of an
inline CSS block followed by an inline ES6 module both importing the same
file, the second import would find the pre-existing CSS import rather than
try to introduce a new one.
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Ian Hickson U+1047E
that decision, since it requires
changes to the ES6 spec if we're going to do it.
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key anything, so that in this case:
style
@import http://example.com/foo.x;;
/style
script type=module
import http://example.com/foo.x;;
/script
...the second import would find the pre-existing CSS import rather than
try to introduce a new one.
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it
could just unblock the execution and immediately have the scripts run.
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On Mon, 18 Aug 2014, John Barton wrote:
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 10:55 AM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote:
On Wed, 13 Aug 2014, Ian Hickson wrote:
One of the problems I'm running into when it comes to trying to
integrate ES6 modules with HTML and new HTML-based dependency
features
On Mon, 18 Aug 2014, John Barton wrote:
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 2:06 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote:
Now, in the main page, you reference the HTML import:
link rel=import href=foo.html
Now how would you refer to the modules? We can't have #b refer
that it depends on ./latter until you've fetched
./former, by which time it's too late.
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built-in registry. If
that's not the same as the ES6 module registry, then we've presumably
failed somewhere since that means you can't get to the ES6 one. :-)
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trigger any code to execute? That would solve my problem, I just wouldn't
call EnsureEvaluated() until I needed the modules.
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Things
, except that I really
need the StyleSheet object to be created earlier than the instantiate
hook since that's the likely place that the Fetch request initialisation
options would be exposed for CSS.
On Fri, 15 Aug 2014, John Barton wrote:
On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 3:06 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch
On Wed, 13 Aug 2014, Ian Hickson wrote:
One of the problems I'm running into when it comes to trying to
integrate ES6 modules with HTML and new HTML-based dependency features
is the way that I can't tell ES about dependencies I know about before
the data is actually fetched
On Mon, 18 Aug 2014, John Barton wrote:
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 10:43 AM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2014, John Barton wrote:
On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 3:41 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2014, John Barton wrote:
The ES Loader does
On Mon, 18 Aug 2014, John Barton wrote:
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 10:43 AM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote:
To avoid overly spamming the list I've coallesced my responses to
various threads over the weekend into this one e-mail.
I really think this makes the discussion more difficult
early).
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url(my-other-stylesheet);
/style
Does this cause my-other-stylesheet to be loaded twice?
But that's probably out of scope for this list.
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Things
.
nothing, throw an exception because the ..s go beyond the domain root
when normalised.
[1]
https://github.com/dherman/web-modules/blob/master/browser-loader/requirements.md
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On Fri, 15 Aug 2014, John Barton wrote:
On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 9:43 AM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote:
On Thu, 14 Aug 2014, John Barton wrote:
But since the only way the client can know that it needs a.js and
jquery.js is if the server tells it [...]
There's at least four ways
things in imports, e.g.
style sheets, images, etc.)
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change a style sheet's dependencies.
Assuming we are implementing all CSS loads through the ES6 module loader
system, what's the appropriate way in which I should spec reactions to
changes to a CSS object's @import rules?
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my
life a lot easier, since I could maintain all the dependency information
outside of the Web's default Loader, without having to worry about
browsers having to implement duplicate logic. So if I have indeed
misinterpreted the spec to that extent, that would be very good to know!)
--
Ian
On Wed, 13 Aug 2014, John Barton wrote:
On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 3:52 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote:
On Wed, 13 Aug 2014, John Barton wrote:
On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 2:59 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote:
Suppose a page has this markup:
script type=module id=jquery
closely enough to
determine if, when ProcessLoadDependencies() is called for a and finds
it needs jquery, it will properly link to the as-yet-not-loaded-but-
already-in-progress-load for jquery.
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On Wed, 13 Aug 2014, John Barton wrote:
On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 2:59 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote:
Suppose a page has this markup:
script type=module id=jquery href=jquery.js whenneeded/script
script type=module id=a href=a.js uses=jquery whenneeded/script
script type
in the object passed in deps in
the normalize hook, that string gets exposed as the module name, which
is rather suboptimal.)
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Things that are impossible
that
those dependencies are also acted upon promptly, rather than only after
fetch has returned).
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On Tue, 12 Aug 2014, David Herman wrote:
On Aug 11, 2014, at 5:06 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote:
So I'm trying to figure out how to spec the HTML spec's Loader.
We should coordinate -- I've been actively working on this (not the spec
per se, but the design) with people engaged
up with the same normalized name for all five?
How many entries in [[Modules]] should this result in?
(I understand that the answer depends on the default loader; what I'm
asking is, what should the default loader's behaviour be.)
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Ian Hickson U+1047E
has historically been problematic (see the history
of usemap= for example), but I don't see a better solution.
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Things that are impossible just take
to be part of it, since this
directly impacts the rest of the work I'm doing on the HTML spec right now.
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On Tue, 12 Aug 2014, John Barton wrote:
On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 2:45 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote:
On Tue, 12 Aug 2014, John Barton wrote:
See the implemention in es6-module-loader:
https://github.com/ModuleLoader/es6-module-loader/blob/master/lib/system.js#L117
Ah
On Tue, 12 Aug 2014, David Herman wrote:
On Aug 12, 2014, at 2:46 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote:
On Tue, 12 Aug 2014, David Herman wrote:
This is part of the design work we're actively working on. I'd ask
you to hold off until we have some more information for you. I'll
keep
On Tue, 12 Aug 2014, Rick Waldron wrote:
On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 8:06 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote:
One of the things that we're likely to add as part of this is a
generic dependency system. Authors have long asked to be able to do
things like define that their scripts depend
. In that the expected behaviour?
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script.
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On Mon, 21 Jul 2014, Allen Wirfs-Brock wrote:
I just added and remove it from the execution context stack to the
text NewJob step 2 to make it explicit that suspending the running
execution context also removes it from the stack.
Cool, thanks. That fixes the problem.
--
Ian Hickson
:
Parsing:
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/webappapis.html#getting-the-current-value-of-the-event-handler
Execution:
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/webappapis.html#the-event-handler-processing-algorithm
How should I map this to ES6?
--
Ian
On Tue, 10 Jun 2014, Ian Hickson wrote:
On Tue, 10 Jun 2014, Allen Wirfs-Brock wrote:
By an ECMAScript Environment (and this is what Ecma-262 defines,
although it doesn't actually use that name) I mean a heap of
ECMAScript objects (and related values) that may directly reference
suspension that actually pops the execution context stack. Am I missing
something?
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Things that are impossible just take longer
On Mon, 21 Jul 2014, Ian Hickson wrote:
On Tue, 10 Jun 2014, Ian Hickson wrote:
On Tue, 10 Jun 2014, Allen Wirfs-Brock wrote:
By an ECMAScript Environment (and this is what Ecma-262 defines,
although it doesn't actually use that name) I mean a heap of
ECMAScript objects
On Mon, 21 Jul 2014, Allen Wirfs-Brock wrote:
On Jul 21, 2014, at 11:23 AM, Ian Hickson wrote:
8.5 Initialization step 4 says Push newContext onto the execution
context stack, and step 8 calls NextTask. 8.4.2 NextTask suspends the
running execution context in step 2, then in step 3
started trying to
trace all the steps between 8.5:5 and NextJob:3 in this e-mail, but that's
a lot of calls so it's probably not worth including here.
Do you have a precise pointer to the actual step that unwinds the stack?
--
Ian Hickson U+1047E
, you still need structured
cloning to tranfser data between realms sometimes, because the Web
platform logically isolates them, as discussed above.
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, since the
second script element won't be in the DOM when the first executes:
http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/3051
Should I just say to invoke that algorithm but skip steps 6-8?
(Also, how could step 6's substeps ever get triggered?)
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. They we will have a list of
operations that a host must define.
That would certainly help, yes.
Cheers,
--
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Things that are impossible just take
an ES task to run the script, and
after each one there's the microtask queue is flushed, before finally
returning back to the main task, and then continuing the event loop.
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implementation- or host-environment-defined processing of /pending/ to
*queue a new task*, where queue a new task is a magic phrase (hook)
that I would then be able to reference in HTML, e.g. by saying When the
ES spec says to *queue a new task*, follow these steps
Cheers,
--
Ian Hickson
, while ones involved in the whole script
lifecycle business can be put on the HTML task queue?
Where in the ES spec are the ES jobs for promises queued up?
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On Wed, 11 Jun 2014, Domenic Denicola wrote:
From: Ian Hickson [mailto:i...@hixie.ch]
Where in the ES spec are the ES jobs for promises queued up?
https://people.mozilla.org/~jorendorff/es6-draft.html#sec-triggerpromisereactions
and
https://people.mozilla.org/~jorendorff/es6
interleave with
non-ES-driven microtasks.
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Things that are impossible just take longer
how to integrate the
module loading stuff with all the other loading and dependency management
that HTML does.
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Things that are impossible just take
, but the underlying model with
load records and so on) something that could be on the table?
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Things that are impossible just take longer
called in the current ES6 logic? As soon as
locate provides a URL?
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On Thu, 29 May 2014, John Barton wrote:
On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 2:31 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2014, Juan Ignacio Dopazo wrote:
- some people want to predeclare a bunch of scripts and their
dependencies, without actually downloading any of them ahead
this
style sheet,
Stylesheets, too? :-)
Anything, ideally.
On Fri, 23 May 2014, Matthew Robb wrote:
On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 5:04 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote:
Could you elaborate on what it would mean for a module to import a
template or style sheet? I'm not super-familiar
I had proposed last year, the URL for a script wasn't
actually used as the identity, what the proposal did was use the URL to
look up the script element and then used the script element as the
target of any deduping.
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therefore like to propose that we integrate these so that we end
up with just one system that manages all three.
What do people think?
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Things
On Fri, 23 May 2014, Ryosuke Niwa wrote:
On May 23, 2014, at 3:14 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote:
- script needs= in HTML
Could someone give me a pointer about this? This is the first time I've
heard of this feature.
It's a work in progress, but the last public post from me about
in the above?
What/where would be the best place to define such a system, and how would
we hook all the specs together to use it?
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an issue for this?
Fixed. (A change that approaches reality more.)
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Things that are impossible just take longer
exceptions) upon a timeout or upon user request, so it wouldn't be a spec
violation either way.
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#killing-scripts
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that the slow-scripts dialog and harsh termination of a tab are not
violations of the HTML spec.
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Things that are impossible just take longer
that, at first glance, seems to explicitly
cause the presence of a use strict directive to be ignored.
This wasn't intentional.
I'm happy to change the spec to more correctly interface with the ES spec.
Let me know what it should say!
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,
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file them as bugs. The easiest way to do that is to use the little
text box at the bottom of the browser window when looking at:
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/browsers.html#the-window-object
Cheers,
--
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to it. ;-)
Ha. Maybe it would be worth putting a note in HTML5. [Replaceable] is
a quirk of history. Do not over-attend to it.
If we start calling out all the quirks of history in HTML5, we'd probably
end up doubling the size of the spec.
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that
the host environment's spec can hook into.
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in implementations as specified herein. [ECMA262]
I'd love to be able to include this requirement without it being a
violation of another spec.
HTH,
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Things
://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#dom-frames
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#accessing-other-browsing-contexts
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Things
with the ECMAScript spec, without consulting TC39. It should not have
been left to you in the role of an implementor to point out the
incompatibility.
I am the editor of the HTML5 spec. My e-mail was an attempt at the
consultation to which you refer.
HTH,
--
Ian Hickson U
On Thu, 19 Feb 2009, David-Sarah Hopwood wrote:
Ian Hickson wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2009, Mark Miller wrote:
On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:03 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote:
Indeed, I noted this earlier. The behavior HTML5 codifies is the
behavior that the majority of browser vendors have
as it unfortunately does now.
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representative to attend.
I really don't have an opinion on this topic. I'm happy to spec whatever
the browser vendors are willing to implement.
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Things
that is), I
would hope the same applies to the ES specs. :-)
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Things that are impossible just take longer
that allowed me to require this without violating the spec, that would be
great.
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Things that are impossible just take longer
. This unfortunately leaves us in the status quo position where HTML5
has to require something that violates the ES specs.
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Things that are impossible just
On Tue, 17 Feb 2009, Mark Miller wrote:
On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 2:02 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote:
Now, if the other page's script calls f() and g(), it will get
different results (2 and 1 respectively, if I didn't screw up the
example code).
For HTML5, this behaviour has
On Tue, 17 Feb 2009, Mark Miller wrote:
On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:03 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote:
Indeed, I noted this earlier. The behavior HTML5 codifies is the
behavior that the majority of browser vendors have asked me to codify.
Majority, huh? Which vendors? How does
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