[EUG-LUG:3315] Re: Windows Networking traffic...

2001-10-19 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Tim, If you've got the router or firewall set to drop these packets, that should do it. There isn't anything you need to do on the clients. I would try a test on a client to make sure the router/firewall is configured properly. Kahli Tim Howe wrote: I currently prevent traffic on

[EUG-LUG:3459] Re: red hat questions

2001-10-26 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Justin, You can run netcfg (in X) that will let you set up hosts, names, routing, etc. This utility modifies the files in /etc/sysconfig/, namely network and other files in network-scripts/, so you could modify them by hand too. I don't believe red carpet comes with redhat, at

[EUG-LUG:3527] Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: November PLUG Meeting

2001-10-29 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Anyone planning on attending this? The presentation sounds interesting. If a few people are going, we should set up a car-pool so everyone's not driving...

[EUG-LUG:3529] AMD Tech Tour

2001-10-29 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Mr. O, Can you elaborate on the tech tour of give us a link? Kahli

[EUG-LUG:3545] Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: November PLUG Meeting

2001-10-30 Thread Kahli R. Burke
I will plan on driving up to this then, Ben you can get a ride with me, and I'll have room for one or two more if anyone's interested. We can either find a central place to meet and pick people up, or I could pick people up at their houses if that's easier. I'm guessing we'd have to leave

[EUG-LUG:3550] Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: November PLUG Meeting

2001-10-30 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Ok, My car is full now. It sounds like we should leave around 4 to give us a big enough buffer. Ben, Seth, Justin, why don't we take this off the list, mail me directly to coordinate our plans... Kahli oh, i'd like to go, too. :) -Original Message- From: Kahli R. Burke

[EUG-LUG:3618] Re: Keymapping question

2001-11-04 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Garl, This may be more than you want to get yourself into :)...The approach you are thinking of sounds to me like a good way to go, however it's not the only way. I recommend you take a look at: http://www.ibb.net/~anne/keyboard/keyboard.html This is probably more than you ever

[EUG-LUG:42] Re: RFC 2410

2001-11-11 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Bob Miller wrote: I just discovered RFC 2410. This is surely one of the more important specs for the security-conscious. ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc2410.txt Read it -- it's short. This is just the thing I've been waiting for. I've been trying to implement RFC 1149: A Standard for

[EUG-LUG:105] Re: patches

2001-11-20 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Rob Hudson wrote: I know how to apply a patch to the kernel tree, but how do you apply a 2nd patch? I'm running 2.4.15-pre5, and if I want to patch my tree to -pre7, do I need to start from 2.4.14 again or can I patch over an already patched tree? Can you undo a patch? Thanks, Rob -- Rob

[EUG-LUG:3282] Klingon Software Development

2001-10-16 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Top 12 Things Likely To Be Overheard If You Had A Klingon On Your Programming Team Specifications are for the weak and timid! This machine is a piece of GAGH! I need dual Pentium processors if I am to do battle with this code! You cannot really appreciate Dilbert

[EUG-LUG:358] Us @Home (no more) people

2001-12-01 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Well, I'm happy to say that although the transition was not seamless, I'm back up on my cable connection today. I had to change everything that was pointing to home.com to attbi.com. If any of you have my email address, its now [EMAIL PROTECTED] If any of the list admins are reading,

[EUG-LUG:419] PPTP, VPN, routing, firewalls

2001-12-04 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Alright, I am new to doing VPN setup, and am trying to get my network set up properly. Since I'm starting to confuse myself, I though I'd see if anyone out there has done this before. I've read a bunch of stuff (HOWTOs) on the net on how to get this set up, which haven't helped me

[EUG-LUG:434] Re: PPTP, VPN, routing, firewalls

2001-12-06 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Bob Miller wrote: PPTP is not a secure protocol. Here's a good reference. http://www.counterpane.com/pptp.html Yeah I know, I found that link while looking for HOWTOs. However, it's what they are using at my office, and I don't think I'll be able to talk them into something better

[EUG-LUG:439] Re: PPTP, VPN, routing, firewalls

2001-12-06 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Kahli R. Burke wrote: So, my remaining problem is getting the routes set up. There are a couple class C subnets (206.163.164.0 and 192.68.202.0)behind the VPN, so I figured if I just set routes for those networks to go through ppp0, I'd be fine. This seems to work for the 192.68.202

[EUG-LUG:554] Re: TCP/IP port list

2001-12-13 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Tim Howe wrote: I used to have a link to a large comprehensive list of ports and what they were used for, but I seem to have lost it. I can find lots of lists, but none as full as this one. Anybody have a link to a great list of ports, what they are used for, and what protocols? TimH I'm

[EUG-LUG:699] RE: What application is it?

2001-12-26 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Justin Bengtson wrote: uhm, was it ethereal for the console? or maybe nmap? Nope and nope. Tethereal is the console based ethereal, and it just writes to stdout, something you'd pipe to 'less'. This app actually had a GUI of sorts, it was just a text based GUI (is that an oxymoron?). And

[EUG-LUG:702] RE: What application is it?

2001-12-26 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Garl Grigsby wrote: was it netwatch? I took a look at this and I don't think it's the same thing, although i'll play with netwatch and see what it can do.

[EUG-LUG:760] Re: folding files

2001-12-30 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Mr O wrote: Also, package uninstallation. Apparently to remove an RPM package you just type 'rpm -u or -e (package name) and that's all right? Seems the computer wants to tell me these packages aren't installed. Is there a work around for that? Tar.gz files are just drop into the directory

[EUG-LUG:768] Happy new year!

2002-01-01 Thread Kahli R. Burke
I just wanted to have the first post with the year 2002 on it. :) Kahli

[EUG-LUG:788] Re: Thursday trip to PDX

2002-01-02 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Larry Price wrote: I'm planning on going to portland tomorrow, in fact I plan to ride with Seth. See you all tomorrow. OK, Well apparently Seth will be driving then. Are you two going to meet the rest of us at the LL (16th and Willamette) 4:30 tomorrow? We may have 5 again, so I may

[EUG-LUG:836] Re: ATT cable modem issue

2002-01-05 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Horst Lueck wrote: Mandrake 8.1; RCA 'Broadband' modem w/o obvious model#, CAT5-to-NIC To those of you who went to Portland last night instead of coming to the clinic: I recently got ATT cable; the service guy got it all running on my Win98 partition, but w/o leaving any documentation. The only

[EUG-LUG:1045] Re: network questions

2002-01-15 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Bob Miller wrote: Ben Barrett wrote: When a process starts that uses a port, say apache httpd, and then it bombs out badly or quits unexpectedly, how can one recover the locked port(s)? The kernel cleans up automatically. When the process exits (voluntarily or not), the kernel closes all

[EUG-LUG:1050] Re: network questions: further, uh, understanding

2002-01-16 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Jacob Meuser wrote: On Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 01:42:14PM -0800, Ben Barrett wrote: [root@benBox /etc]# telnet localhost 6667 Trying 127.0.0.1... Connected to localhost (127.0.0.1). Escape character is '^]'. Connection closed by foreign host. portsentry actually binds to the list of ports in

[EUG-LUG:1155] Re: USB keyboards

2002-01-21 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Mr O wrote: Anybody have experience with them? Are they an issue? I know my BIOS supports them and I think that may be the only requirement. Where to get one and/or who uses them with what opinions. Thanks y'all. Mr O _ Do You Yahoo!?

[EUG-LUG:1157] Re: USB keyboards

2002-01-21 Thread Kahli R. Burke
justin bengtson wrote: --- Kahli R. Burke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As far as opinions, well it doesn't really make any difference to me, I can type on it the same either way. i would have to ask what the point would be, aside from changing standards. do you really need all that bandwidth

[EUG-LUG:1208] Re: Folding@home woes

2002-01-23 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Ben Barrett wrote: - Error: Getwork failed -1, and no other work to do Sleeping for about 5 minutes then retrying and then it keeps failing like this so far, I cannot get a WU )-; does it take many many tries? Ben, I've seen this before and haven't been able to pin it down

[EUG-LUG:1209] Re: Folding@home woes

2002-01-23 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Kahli R. Burke wrote: Ben Barrett wrote: - Error: Getwork failed -1, and no other work to do Sleeping for about 5 minutes then retrying and then it keeps failing like this so far, I cannot get a WU )-; does it take many many tries? Ben, I've seen this before and haven't

[EUG-LUG:1214] Re: Jukebox woes

2002-01-23 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Bob Miller wrote: As most of you are aware (and are really tired of hearing about), I'm building this mp3 jukebox. Currently, it's running on a server and streaming out over Icecast to the PC on my desk. That works, mostly, but the ultimate goal is to be able to feed the same audio stream into

[EUG-LUG:1350] Re: Crazy DSL/Cable combo idea - Advanced Network Routing

2002-01-31 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Jacob Meuser wrote: On Thu, Jan 31, 2002 at 09:19:47AM -0800, Ben Barrett wrote: In the original post, all that was wanted iirc was to host ports 21 and 80 over one interface (dsl?) No, he wanted outbound port 21 80 traffic to go through the cable line and everything else to go out the dsl

[EUG-LUG:1391] Re: iptables help

2002-02-01 Thread Kahli R. Burke
justin bengtson wrote: the real dilema, and what i can't puzzle out and/or visualize, is how to route to a dynamic IP. especially when i only have one NIC in the router. setting up a gateway is simple (for me) when all of the IP's are static and i have two NICs. i need to route inside traffic

[EUG-LUG:1410] Re: let's finalize

2002-02-02 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Mark Bigler wrote: On Saturday 02 February 2002 10:34, Mr O wrote: ...we'd all be a happy as clams to leave our usage of linux as is. Is this agreed upon by the majority?? I'm not a member, but I did note that RMS took some exception in regard to the issue of EUGLUG being a true GLUG, since

[EUG-LUG:1413] Re: let's finalize

2002-02-02 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Mark Bigler wrote: RMS pointed out the inconsistency, and suggested EUGLUG wasn't a true GLUG. I was just offering a kludge fix. It's OK, I wasn't getting angry with you, I'm just feeling like too much energy is being put into picking at nits. I don't think there is a GLUG certification

[EUG-LUG:1508] Re: Web site redesign

2002-02-06 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Rob Hudson wrote: I think arsdigita.com has potential and would make a good starting point. I've also been a fan of linux.com, but agree with justin about the triple columns. I was playing with a design from oswd.org, and threw this up a few days ago. Not sure about it but have a look...

[EUG-LUG:1555] Re: Info Request

2002-02-08 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Dennis Eberl wrote: Could somebody tell me who the president (or whatever) of EUGLUG is and how to reach him by phone? I have items I want to donate and need to get it done before the end of this month. Thanks. Dennis Bob Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] is our acting grand poohbah. I think

[EUG-LUG:1556] Re: Folding@home: Team EUGLUG stumbles

2002-02-08 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Bob Miller wrote: Last night's storm affected Team EUGLUG's Folding@home efforts. We lost power at our house, and it's still not back. I moved the two Athlons to Anne's office, though, and they were folding away until we had a half second power glitch this morning, which sent them back into

[EUG-LUG:1560] Re: Info Request

2002-02-08 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Dennis Eberl wrote: Sure. They're plastic. The deal is it _all_ has to go; then you can pick out what you want. Thanks for the reply. Dennis I'm assuming you live in Eugene or Springfield or a close outlying area? If so I'll volunteer to pick them up and bring them to a clinic to

[EUG-LUG:1684] Re: A programming question.

2002-02-19 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Robert M. Solovay wrote: I want to write a program to automate my login process. How do I get the program to do the login and then release the terminal for my use. Explanation: To log in to my berkeley account, I need to use the Opie program. This gives me a challenge and I have to run a

[EUG-LUG:1708] Re: Firewall Configuration

2002-02-21 Thread Kahli R. Burke
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am going to be running a mail server. I want to set it up with 2 network cards. One will be inside of my firewall and I will need to allow access to ports 22, 25, 110, and 389. On the card outside on the firewall I only want to allow access to port 25. Is this

[EUG-LUG:1741] Re: Folding

2002-02-24 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Bob Miller wrote: I'd still like to know why there are two kahliburke's on our team. That's because I gave an incorrect email address when I first started folding and completed a work unit with it. I discovered my mistake, and changed it. It just slices the username off the front of the

[EUG-LUG:1742] Re: Many novice questions

2002-02-24 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Jacob covered most of these, I thought I'd pitch in on the things he didn't answer... I still can't mount a floppy. .fstab says /dev/fd0 /floppy auto defaults,user,noauto 0 0. But mount says mount: can't find floppy in /etc/fstab or /etc/mtab. A similar statement for CD works fine.

[EUG-LUG:1743] Re: Port Scans

2002-02-24 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Bob Miller wrote: Bob Crandell wrote: I found out that telnet was open. It's closed now. What mechanisim does one use to scan ports from someone else's computer? nmap is the canonical port scanner. http://www.insecure.org/nmap/ Just a note that nmap can be used by non root users for the

[EUG-LUG:1753] Re: Many novice questions

2002-02-24 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Bob Miller wrote: In LS, Less or More (pagers) apparently prevent color format. Is there a way around that? No. alias ls='ls --color=always' works for me Piping it to more works, but less prints out weird characters due to the color codes. Kahli

[EUG-LUG:1818] Re: DOJ M$ comments online...

2002-03-02 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Seth Cohn wrote: Kbob's is online at http://wwwusdojgov/atr/cases/ms_tuncom/public/18/mtc-00017012htm Hats off to those who expressed their views It appears that we are being taken seriously so far http://wwwusdojgov/atr/cases/ms_tuncom/public/18/mtc-00017614htm Kahli

[EUG-LUG:1821] Mailing list summaries

2002-03-03 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Here's a request It would be nice to get a periodic summary of all of the euglug lists (wearables, activism, tech lunch, etc) posted to the main list (maybe the web site too) At the minimum, a posting listing all of the mailing list addresses and instructions on how to subscribe A nice

[EUG-LUG:1942] Re: perl: tr/$before/$after/?

2002-03-11 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Cory Petkovsek wrote: How can I use a variable as a search or replace selection using tr//? $_ = be!happy; $before=!; $after= ; tr/$before/$after/; print $_; Pulled from the perlop man page: Because the transliteration table is built at compile time, neither the SEARCHLIST nor the

[EUG-LUG:1972] Re: Shell one-liner poser

2002-03-13 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Larry Price wrote: What I'm seeking: the bit of syntax that will let me use the output of a command as the input to mail obviously, but more generally $ command1 ?command2? I was trying this using /bin/sh on OpenBSD but a good solution would work on most POSIX'ly compliant shells.

[EUG-LUG:1977] Re: bash loops

2002-03-13 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Rob Hudson wrote: I was just trying to search for a domain name of a friend's website. I have an idea of the block number he is in, so I wanted to do a quick bash look with nslookup to find the domain. But I'm stumped on the number range part. Can bash to a range [1-254] or 1..254 like perl?

[EUG-LUG:1978] Re: More on shell scripts.

2002-03-13 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Bob Crandell wrote: mysql -u root -p mysql create database phpgroupware ; mysql grant all on phpgroupware.* to phpgroupware@localhost identified by 'password'; mysql quit These are the lines to create a database and set a password. How would I put this in a shell script? I want it to run

[EUG-LUG:2027] Re: Revolution OS - documentary on Open Source/Linux

2002-03-19 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Seth Cohn wrote: --- Bob Crandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This Thursday at River Road Parks and Recreation? That is what I was thinking. Would there be enough chairs, etc? 1 1/2 hours is a long time to be watching something if it's not comfortable. Seth I seem to remember that Ben's

[EUG-LUG:2093] Re: dumb terminal and thin clients

2002-03-27 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Timothy Bolz wrote: I have the Dorio dumb terminal and was using a null modem cable to connect it to my box. I was thinking about connecting it to a hub. I know I would need a serial to cat5 connector. Does anyone have a spare one? I know the terminals which stan gave away had them

[EUG-LUG:2096] Re: dumb terminal and thin clients

2002-03-27 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Kahli R. Burke wrote: Timothy Bolz wrote: I have the Dorio dumb terminal and was using a null modem cable to connect it to my box. I was thinking about connecting it to a hub. I know I would need a serial to cat5 connector. Does anyone have a spare one? I know the terminals which

[EUG-LUG:2250] Re: Sharp Zaurus SL-5000 Linux based PDA

2002-04-08 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Jim K wrote: I just got back from Office Depot. While I was there I played with the Zaurus. Cool! 64MB ram, 16 MB Rom, TFT screen Opera web browser Intel 206 StrongArm Processor, built in keyboard, various goodies like an office suite and games like snake and go. I am impressed, but no built

[EUG-LUG:2284] Re: c#?

2002-04-11 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Rob Hudson wrote: Anyone know much about C-pound? ;) I know it's a Microsoft thing, but what is their agenda? I haven't seen any C# code so don't know too much about why it exists, etc. My reason for asking is that Ximian is working on a C# language binding to GTK called GTK#, as seen in

[EUG-LUG:2384] Re: USB Mouse

2002-04-23 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Rob Hudson wrote: I've got one of those mice with a USB end (and USB 2 PS2 connector). Anyone know what's involved in getting a USB mouse working on Linux? (Kernel 2.4.18) Thanks, Rob Assuming the device is set up correctly by the kernel, you can usually point your XF86Config file at

[EUG-LUG:2405] Re: Mandrake Linux install

2002-04-25 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Dexter Graphic wrote: Ben, a number of us have Mandrake 8.2 CD's that we're happy to share; the software is free, you pay for packaging, harcopy manuals (not very useful IMO), and sometimes support... One very important thing you forgot to mention is that buying the boxed set helps support

[EUG-LUG:2437] Re: C++ and Linux

2002-04-26 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Christopher Maujean wrote: read regexp.h :P then theres cplusplus.com which has lots of cool documentation --Christopher On Thursday 25 April 2002 11:51 am, Rob Hudson wrote: Probing for resources... When coding C/C++ on a Linux machine, what are some good resources to find examples on how

[EUG-LUG:2453] Re: multi gnome terminal

2002-04-28 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Timothy Bolz wrote: I found this on freshmeat and thought it was the greatest idea. A terminal with Tabs. Instead of having four terminal windows open you can have one and tab between them. This would be a great idea to add to a browser. When I saw it I said That's a good idea.

[EUG-LUG:2456] Re: asynchronous file access: ? use chattr +S ?

2002-04-28 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Linux Rocks ! wrote: I do have a question about grep and stuff... I would like to replace text with different text (like change alt= tags to title= or duplicate alt tags to title tags... so, If i have something like and I want a href=www.rocksolidnetworks.comimg src=rock.jpg

[EUG-LUG:2459] Re: KDE/GNOME programming

2002-04-28 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Ben Huot wrote: Are there any books that teach programming from the very basics under X for KDE or GNOME? I would like to develop a GUI frontend for the Bible program BRS that use to come with Linux. Or I could use one of the more modern free versions online. Ben [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maybe:

[EUG-LUG:2460] Re: asynchronous file access: ? use chattr +S ?

2002-04-28 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Linux Rocks ! wrote: Sometime just before Sunday 28 April 2002 04:30 pm Kahli R. Burke Wrote about:[EUG-LUG:2456] Re: asynchronous file access: ? use chattr +S ? Kahli, Thanks! Ill give the perl a try... Im alergic to vi, I use Emacs, but very little... Perl looks interesting... I

[EUG-LUG:2469] Re: asynchronous file access: ? use chattr +S ?

2002-04-28 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Linux Rocks ! wrote: Sometime just before Sunday 28 April 2002 05:13 pm Bob Miller Wrote about:[EUG-LUG:2461] Re: asynchronous file access: ? use chattr +S ? : *The easiest* way it to say, Hey, Seth, can you change some web pages : for me? That's not very fast -- it may take several weeks,

[EUG-LUG:2470] Re: KDE/GNOME programming

2002-04-28 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Ben Huot wrote: I have written a program launcher with Perl and I tried to write a program in C++, but it didn't do object oriented programming the way I thought it worked. Ben [EMAIL PROTECTED] I believe that the KDE libraries are C++ and the GNOME ones are C (or do I have that backwards?).

[EUG-LUG:2582] Re: BIG FILES

2002-05-09 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Bob Miller wrote: Bob Crandell wrote: I'm talking to a guy about a new workstation running Redhat. It might have a striped, mirrored set of drives totaling 320 gigs for capacity and throughput. He does some heavy arithmatic and uses most of this to hold temporary files that could be 5 - 10

[EUG-LUG:2703] Re: Defunct

2002-05-23 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Bob Crandell wrote: Hi, I have a server with a growing number of these: 20344 ?Z 0:00 [sh defunct] 20354 ?Z 0:00 [sh defunct] 20355 ?Z 0:00 [sh defunct] 20363 ?Z 0:00 [sh defunct] How do I get rid if them? How do I find out what's causing

[EUG-LUG:3167] Re: Missing sound libraries with Mandrake 8.2

2002-06-29 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Gordon Johnson wrote: I've installed Mandrake 82. Trying to compile a program I get... libtool: link: cannot find the library '/usr/lib/libasound.la' libalsa1 is installed but it contains libasound.so.1 - not libasound.la Any thoughts? There is a libalsa1-devel package that contains

Re: [Eug-lug]En Ateli Siteler

2002-09-01 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Wow, Do you think they use linux to generate this spam? :) Kahli ___ Eug-lug mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug

Re: [Eug-lug]PHP rocks!

2002-09-19 Thread Kahli R. Burke
Bob Miller wrote: Here is The _Perl_Review_ Suckatude Index. It shows that under two different studies, PHP is the most rocking language considered. http://www.theperlreview.com/at_a_glance.html Perl and Python both give a good showing, but C++ and Visual Basic suck jackal farts. It's

Re: [Eug-lug]We Blog

2002-11-27 Thread Kahli R. Burke
I was Bob's post about Eclipse and wanted to chime in. Can you add me? Is this an appropriate way to be using the weblog? Kahli ___ Eug-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug

Re: [Eug-lug]Borrow Applied Crypto?

2003-02-15 Thread Kahli R. Burke
I have a copy you can borrow. Why don't you email off the list and we can arrange the drop. Wait a minute...are we in some spy movie? Me (aka 003): I like the cheescake at this joint... Bob (aka 0775): Yeah, *strawberry* is my favorite flavor. Me: Alright, you know the password, I guess you

Re: [Eug-lug]Borrow Applied Crypto?

2003-02-17 Thread Kahli R. Burke
The handoff has already taken place... Robert M. Solovay wrote: Bob, I also have a copy of the Schneier I could lend if the other offer didn't work out. --Bob Solovay [based in Eugene despite the email domain] On Sat, 15 Feb 2003, Bob Miller wrote: