Re: [EVDL] JDPower paid to poo-poo EV-sales> more paid4-koch-kool-aid

[Lee Hart via EV]

Larry Gales via EV wrote:

Those sound like real world solutions to me



EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

I totally agree!  You're describing a Tesla.

But that's my perspective and yours, not the average US vehicle buyer's.
...  To sum up, here is why Americans bought 817% more Cherokees than
Model Xs in 2018.

38% more cargo space
17% more interior volume
108% - 158% more range (that is, 2.1 to 2.6 times as far between stops)
57% cheaper



That's a great summary of the situation, David. To your list I would add:

 - because it's what everyone else is buying (i.e. stay with the herd).


But a lot of things could change in the next few years.  The US is on the
verge of starting another shooting war in the Mideast, which would probably
cause oil prices to jump.  Especially if it affected the QUANTITY of fuel
available, that might suddenly make EVs a real world solution for lots more
people.

Chinese and/or Indian EV manufacturers could flood the US with decent,
affordable EVs.  That could further expand EV sales, in the same way that
the Japanese automakers expanded small, fuel-efficient ICEV sales during the
mid-1970s Mideast oil crunch..


Yes, these are possible scenarios.


The mainstream automakers might even get serious about selling EVs,
regardless of foreign competition.  I don't think that's very likely,
though.


More likely, they would get more serious about *stopping* EVs from 
further eroding their market. Impose tariffs or bans on inported EVs. 
Buy out companies like Tesla that dare to build them in the US. Lobby to 
get laws to penalize EVs and favor ICEs.


--
In software development, there are two kinds of error: Conceptual
errors, implementation errors, and off-by-one errors. (anonymous)
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] JDPower paid to poo-poo EV-sales> more paid4-koch-kool-aid

[paul dove via EV]

However, if you compare the the luxury SUV’s Tesla is competing with the 
picture is vastly different. 

It is considered a luxury car. Competing with the Mercedes GLE 580, BMW X3, 
Ford Expedition, GMC Yukon and the Toyota Land Cruiser. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 3, 2019, at 5:49 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV  
> wrote:
> 
>> On 2 Aug 2019 at 20:24, Larry Gales via EV wrote:
>> 
>> Those sound like real world solutions to me 
> 
> I totally agree!  You're describing a Tesla.  
> 
> But that's my perspective and yours, not the average US vehicle buyer's.
> 
> The problem is that Americans overwhelmingly buy SUVs and crossovers, partly 
> because that's what Americans overwhelmingly buy.  :-\
> 
> They also buy them because Americans buy, collect, and move around a heck of 
> a lot of stuff, and SUVs and crossovers can carry a lot of stuff.  
> 
> Now Tesla has the Model X for them.  Are Americans buying Model Xs?
> 
> An X has 26 cubic feet of cargo capacity with all 5 seats in place, and an 
> EPA interior volume volume of 120 cubic feet.  It will go 238 miles (75D) or 
> 295 miles (100D) between charging stops..
> 
> A typical Model X price (100D) is $96k, though maybe if you twisted both 
> Musk's arms he'd deign to sell you the cheap model (75D) at ~$80k.  
> 
> In 2018, Americans bought 26,100 Model Xs.
> 
> A Jeep Cherokee, in about the same size class as an X,  has 36 cubic feet of 
> cargo capacity with all 5 seats in place, and an EPA interior volume of 
> 140.5 cubic feet.  It will go 615 miles between refueling stops.
> 
> A typical Cherokee price is $41,200, but you can buy a basic model for 
> $34,245.
> 
> In 2018, Americans bought 239,437 Cherokees.
> 
> To sum up, here is why Americans bought 817% more Cherokees than Model Xs in 
> 2018.
> 
> 38% more cargo space
> 17% more interior volume
> 108% - 158% more range (that is, 2.1 to 2.6 times as far between stops)
> 57% cheaper
> 
> That's the stuff that Americans care about.  They don't give a hoot about 
> MPG or CO2 emissions.  By their standards, their big, overstuffed ICE-SUVs 
> are comfortable enough, safe enough, and quiet enough.  They handle well 
> enough, and accelerate briskly enough.  And the total cost of ownership just 
> isn't something they think much about when they're sitting in the auto 
> dealer listening to the salesman's pitch.
> 
> A Tesla offers lots more prestige than a Jeep.  That appeals to certain 
> kinds of wealthy people.  But then, so does a Range Rover.  
> 
> A Tesla offers way more advanced technology than a Jeep.  That appeals to 
> people like us, and to highly educated people in the high-tech world. 
> 
> For the average suburban family with an average income and average 
> education, the Jeep (or a Ford Escape, or Chevy Traverse, or Hyundai Santa 
> Fe, or you name it) is good enough, and it costs less - a lot less.  
> 
> That's the bottom line.
> 
> EVs are mechanically simpler, so IMO they SHOULD cost less to buy for a 
> given level of utiity and appointments.  They don't yet.  
> 
> Maybe someday the manufacturers will get serious about selling EVs and do 
> what they do with newly introduced ICEVs:  sell them at a loss until they 
> get popular.  When that happens, maybe Americans will start to buy more Evs 
> than they do ICEVs.  We're not there yet.  
> 
> But a lot of things could change in the next few years.  The US is on the 
> verge of starting another shooting war in the Mideast, which would probably 
> cause oil prices to jump.  Especially if it affected the QUANTITY of fuel 
> available, that might suddenly make EVs a real world solution for lots more 
> people.
> 
> Chinese and/or Indian EV manufacturers could flood the US with decent, 
> affordable EVs.  That could further expand EV sales, in the same way that 
> the Japanese automakers expanded small, fuel-efficient ICEV sales during the 
> mid-1970s Mideast oil crunch..
> 
> The mainstream automakers might even get serious about selling EVs, 
> regardless of foreign competition.  I don't think that's very likely, 
> though.
> 
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
> 
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Re: [EVDL] JDPower paid to poo-poo EV-sales> more paid4-koch-kool-aid

[Larry Gales via EV]

How about a car that is much more fun to drive, that costs 2-5 times less
to fuel, half the cost for maintenance, is much safer (e.g., Tesla 3 crash
tests), lasts much longer, is totally quiet, smooth, and clean, etc.  Those
sound like real world solutions to me

On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 7:22 PM EVDL Administrator via EV 
wrote:

> This survey result shouldn't surprise anybody.  Right now the US is awash
> in
> petroleum.  To be blunt, at the moment EVs don't solve any problems or
> provide any advantages that the average person in the US cares much
> about.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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>
>
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>
>

-- 
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Re: [EVDL] JDPower paid to poo-poo EV-sales> more paid4-koch-kool-aid

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

This survey result shouldn't surprise anybody.  Right now the US is awash in 
petroleum.  To be blunt, at the moment EVs don't solve any problems or 
provide any advantages that the average person in the US cares much about.  

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
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reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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Re: [EVDL] JDPower paid to poo-poo EV-sales> more paid4-koch-kool-aid

[Alan Arrison via EV]

Who is claiming the survey was paid for?


On 8/2/2019 4:03 PM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:


https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/motoring/motoring-news/buyers-resist-the-move-to-new-tech/news-story/f8d4de909774103baf6c1afaa779eb53
Buyers resist the move to new tech
July 31, 2019  Toby Hagon

[image
https://images.carscoops.com/2019/06/f6548caf-charging-station-1-768x512.jpg
]

Car makers are spending billions of dollars every year developing this new
technology but it appears that buyers simply don’t want it.

Driven: The world's most popular electric car

Drivers aren’t convinced about the future of motoring, according to the
latest JD Power survey.



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Re: [EVDL] JDPower paid to poo-poo EV-sales> more paid4-koch-kool-aid

[paul dove via EV]

In the mean time Tesla motors is selling like hot cakes.

Funny story: I visited a friend of mine, a car guy and long time electric 
vehicle basher, and let home drive my model S. He drove it for 2 hours. He 
tried autopilot, we had to take his wife for a ride, we went and gave two of 
his friends a ride. He got phone calls while driving and had to tell each 
person what he was driving. He had a million questions then when we got back he 
said that was the best car he ever drove, the fastest street car he ever drove 
bar none and it was going to be boring to drive his gasoline cars now. 

I agree they don’t know but when they do know they jump in with both feet.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 2, 2019, at 3:03 PM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/motoring/motoring-news/buyers-resist-the-move-to-new-tech/news-story/f8d4de909774103baf6c1afaa779eb53
> Buyers resist the move to new tech
> July 31, 2019  Toby Hagon
> 
> [image  
> https://images.carscoops.com/2019/06/f6548caf-charging-station-1-768x512.jpg
> ]
> 
> Car makers are spending billions of dollars every year developing this new
> technology but it appears that buyers simply don’t want it.
> 
> Driven: The world's most popular electric car
> 
> Drivers aren’t convinced about the future of motoring, according to the
> latest JD Power survey.
> 
> The inaugural Mobility Confidence Index Study found consumers lacked
> confidence in autonomous and electric vehicles, the focus of car makers
> around the world and the two technologies soaking up tens of billions of
> dollars of research and development budgets.
> 
> Using the global online survey company SurveyMonkey, respected research and
> analytics company JD Power polled 5749 people about self-driving cars and
> 5270 on electric vehicles, in turn uncovering major issues for the
> automotive industry as it undergoes major transformation.
> 
> [image]  Tesla charges customers $8500 for its “Full Self Driving” package
> that only has semi-autonomous functions.Source:Supplied
> 
> “Out of the box, these scores are not encouraging,” said Kristin Kolodge,
> executive director, driver interaction & human machine interface research at
> JD Power. “As automakers head down the developmental road to self-driving
> vehicles and greater electrification, it’s important to know if consumers
> are on the same road — and headed in the same direction. That doesn’t seem
> to be the case right now.”
> 
> Kolodge suggested car makers need to work harder to sell the benefits of
> upcoming technology that some are calling the biggest change in more than
> 100 years of motoring.
> 
> “Manufacturers need to learn where consumers are in terms of comprehending
> and accepting new mobility technologies — and what needs to be done.”
> 
> [image]  The Nissan Leaf is the most popular electric car in the
> world.Source:Supplied
> 
> JD Power found the Mobility Confidence Index for self-driving cars was just
> 36 out of 100, considered “low”. The biggest concern was that people weren’t
> comfortable with being on the road in or around a driverless car.
> 
> The study concluded that “serious concerns exist with the development of
> self-driving vehicles”.
> 
> JD Power said 71 per cent of people surveyed were most worried about tech
> failures, while 57 per cent were concerned the autonomous vehicle could be
> hacked.
> 
> Despite early iterations of semi-autonomous technology becoming widely
> available, 66 per cent of those surveyed said that had “little to no
> knowledge about self-driving vehicles”.
> 
> The results weren’t quite as disastrous for electric vehicles, with the
> Mobility Confidence set at 55.
> 
> While charging infrastructure and battery range were listed as “critical
> challenges which must be addressed”, it’s perhaps no surprise that the price
> of electric vehicles ranked as the highest concern.
> 
> [image]  The Hyundai Ioniq is one of the most affordable electric cars in
> Australia.Source:Supplied
> 
> The cheapest electric vehicle in Australia is the Hyundai Ioniq, at about
> $49,000 drive-away.
> 
> “Consumer affordability and trust remain among the top challenges for
> electric vehicle adoption,” the JD Power survey said.
> 
> Crucial to EV interest is experience with the product, according to the JD
> Power survey. Of 32 per cent of respondents who had experienced an EV,
> three-quarters said they would consider purchasing one.
> 
> However, of more than two-thirds of respondents who had no experience with
> an electric vehicle, just 40 per cent said they would consider purchasing or
> leasing one.
> [© news.com.au]
> ...
> https://www.google.com/search?q=electric+vehicle+"jd+power;
> search electric vehicle "jd power"
> 
> 
> + (brewery's steam turbine electricity 2recharge Solo EVs)
> https://www.burnabynow.com/business/steamworks-burnaby-brewery-to-power-electric-cars-with-beer-1.23902070
> Steamworks' Burnaby brewery to power electric cars with
> beer
> 

[EVDL] JDPower paid to poo-poo EV-sales> more paid4-koch-kool-aid

[brucedp5 via EV]

https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/motoring/motoring-news/buyers-resist-the-move-to-new-tech/news-story/f8d4de909774103baf6c1afaa779eb53
Buyers resist the move to new tech
July 31, 2019  Toby Hagon

[image  
https://images.carscoops.com/2019/06/f6548caf-charging-station-1-768x512.jpg
]

Car makers are spending billions of dollars every year developing this new
technology but it appears that buyers simply don’t want it.

Driven: The world's most popular electric car

Drivers aren’t convinced about the future of motoring, according to the
latest JD Power survey.

The inaugural Mobility Confidence Index Study found consumers lacked
confidence in autonomous and electric vehicles, the focus of car makers
around the world and the two technologies soaking up tens of billions of
dollars of research and development budgets.

Using the global online survey company SurveyMonkey, respected research and
analytics company JD Power polled 5749 people about self-driving cars and
5270 on electric vehicles, in turn uncovering major issues for the
automotive industry as it undergoes major transformation.

[image]  Tesla charges customers $8500 for its “Full Self Driving” package
that only has semi-autonomous functions.Source:Supplied

“Out of the box, these scores are not encouraging,” said Kristin Kolodge,
executive director, driver interaction & human machine interface research at
JD Power. “As automakers head down the developmental road to self-driving
vehicles and greater electrification, it’s important to know if consumers
are on the same road — and headed in the same direction. That doesn’t seem
to be the case right now.”

Kolodge suggested car makers need to work harder to sell the benefits of
upcoming technology that some are calling the biggest change in more than
100 years of motoring.

“Manufacturers need to learn where consumers are in terms of comprehending
and accepting new mobility technologies — and what needs to be done.”

[image]  The Nissan Leaf is the most popular electric car in the
world.Source:Supplied

JD Power found the Mobility Confidence Index for self-driving cars was just
36 out of 100, considered “low”. The biggest concern was that people weren’t
comfortable with being on the road in or around a driverless car.

The study concluded that “serious concerns exist with the development of
self-driving vehicles”.

JD Power said 71 per cent of people surveyed were most worried about tech
failures, while 57 per cent were concerned the autonomous vehicle could be
hacked.

Despite early iterations of semi-autonomous technology becoming widely
available, 66 per cent of those surveyed said that had “little to no
knowledge about self-driving vehicles”.

The results weren’t quite as disastrous for electric vehicles, with the
Mobility Confidence set at 55.

While charging infrastructure and battery range were listed as “critical
challenges which must be addressed”, it’s perhaps no surprise that the price
of electric vehicles ranked as the highest concern.

[image]  The Hyundai Ioniq is one of the most affordable electric cars in
Australia.Source:Supplied

The cheapest electric vehicle in Australia is the Hyundai Ioniq, at about
$49,000 drive-away.

“Consumer affordability and trust remain among the top challenges for
electric vehicle adoption,” the JD Power survey said.

Crucial to EV interest is experience with the product, according to the JD
Power survey. Of 32 per cent of respondents who had experienced an EV,
three-quarters said they would consider purchasing one.

However, of more than two-thirds of respondents who had no experience with
an electric vehicle, just 40 per cent said they would consider purchasing or
leasing one.
[© news.com.au]
...
https://www.google.com/search?q=electric+vehicle+"jd+power;
 search electric vehicle "jd power"


+ (brewery's steam turbine electricity 2recharge Solo EVs)
https://www.burnabynow.com/business/steamworks-burnaby-brewery-to-power-electric-cars-with-beer-1.23902070
Steamworks' Burnaby brewery to power electric cars with
beer
July 31, 2019  Currently relying on regular B.C. Hydro power to fuel the
fully electric vehicles, the company says it will soon be installing a steam
turbine at the brewery ... Steamworks’ Burnaby brewery is going green with
their new, orange electric car, the single-passenger Solo by Vancouver-based
Electra Meccanica ...
https://images.glaciermedia.ca/polopoly_fs/1.23902077.1564605107!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_804/solo.jpg




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
 http://evdl.org/archive/


{brucedp.neocities.org}

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