Re: [EVDL] What is needed to build a successful practical solar vehicle.
Completely agree with this approach, with one addition: 3D modeling software. Design your vehicle and test it before you build it. EAA can help you there as well. Cheers! Peter On 2/14/15 12:00 AM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote: My father has (a long time ago) built several custom windsurf boards with that method of shaping a light foam core and then skinning it with glassfiber or Kevlar embedded in thin epoxy layers. It is even user-repairable, although never as beautiful as before. Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130 private: cvandewater.info www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Lee Hart via EV Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 9:50 PM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] What is needed to build a successful practical solar vehicle. EVDL Administrator via EV wrote: This is a big assignment. We're talking about a 900lb 2-passenger (or is it 4-passenger?) vehicle that reportedly runs on 55Wh/mi. That's about 2.5 to 3 times my ebike's energy use, but the Stella weighs in at 18 times the bike's mass! It's also rolling on 4 wheels instead of 2. I know a car is more aerodynamic than a bike, but that's going to require some mighty skillful tweaking. Here's how I would approach it: First, you need to build it more like an airplane than a car. Join the other EAA (the Experimental Aircraft Association), and learn how they build modern high-performance airplanes. For example, Burt Rutan is a genius at building high performance aircraft with techniques that can easily be done by a hobbyist. He builds structures out of styrafoam, then skins it with epoxy and cloth (fiberglass, carbon fiber, or kevlar, depending the strength and flexibility needed in each area). Second, look for a successful model, and copy it. It could be Stella, but it depends on a lot of very expensive parts. The Swiss Twike is another possibility, though it's also expensive. Axel Krause of Brusa with the mini-Evergreen EV also comes to mind. An even older example is Bob McKee's Sundancer EV. Third, KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid). Follow the lead of people like Bob Rice, Dave Cloud, and Jerry Dycus, and build your first prototype *really* simple and basic, just to get the hang of it. Bolted angle iron, not aircraft welded chrome-moly tubing. Plywood, not carbon fiber. Get it to work first; then set about improving it. -- We live in a society exquisitely dependent on science and technology, in which hardly anyone knows anything about science and technology. -- Carl Sagan -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeah...@earthlink.net ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] What is needed to build a successful practical solar vehicle.
My father has (a long time ago) built several custom windsurf boards with that method of shaping a light foam core and then skinning it with glassfiber or Kevlar embedded in thin epoxy layers. It is even user-repairable, although never as beautiful as before. Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130 private: cvandewater.info www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Lee Hart via EV Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 9:50 PM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] What is needed to build a successful practical solar vehicle. EVDL Administrator via EV wrote: This is a big assignment. We're talking about a 900lb 2-passenger (or is it 4-passenger?) vehicle that reportedly runs on 55Wh/mi. That's about 2.5 to 3 times my ebike's energy use, but the Stella weighs in at 18 times the bike's mass! It's also rolling on 4 wheels instead of 2. I know a car is more aerodynamic than a bike, but that's going to require some mighty skillful tweaking. Here's how I would approach it: First, you need to build it more like an airplane than a car. Join the other EAA (the Experimental Aircraft Association), and learn how they build modern high-performance airplanes. For example, Burt Rutan is a genius at building high performance aircraft with techniques that can easily be done by a hobbyist. He builds structures out of styrafoam, then skins it with epoxy and cloth (fiberglass, carbon fiber, or kevlar, depending the strength and flexibility needed in each area). Second, look for a successful model, and copy it. It could be Stella, but it depends on a lot of very expensive parts. The Swiss Twike is another possibility, though it's also expensive. Axel Krause of Brusa with the mini-Evergreen EV also comes to mind. An even older example is Bob McKee's Sundancer EV. Third, KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid). Follow the lead of people like Bob Rice, Dave Cloud, and Jerry Dycus, and build your first prototype *really* simple and basic, just to get the hang of it. Bolted angle iron, not aircraft welded chrome-moly tubing. Plywood, not carbon fiber. Get it to work first; then set about improving it. -- We live in a society exquisitely dependent on science and technology, in which hardly anyone knows anything about science and technology. -- Carl Sagan -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeah...@earthlink.net ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] What is needed to build a successful practical solar vehicle.
I don't know if this is still going on, but photos of the minimalist vehicles powered purely by PV mounted to the vehicles may provide ideas. No batteries or any other energy storage devices allowed on vehicle. Official Solar Drag Race Website- http://users.applecapital.net/~jim/solardragrace.htm On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 11:48 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: It is clear that it is possible to build a practical solar vehicle. The formula is 55wh per mile consumption. 1.2kw solar panel. 850 pound weight. 16kw battery pack. Range 500 miles. The vehicle must be aerodynamic. Have the proper motor, wheels carry 4 passengers with a trunk. It's been done at a high cost. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2767806/Meet-Stella-solar-powered-car-drives-500-miles-SINGLE-charge-warns-traffic-lights-change.html What can we do with our stone tools bear skins to copy this in an affordable manner? I think a tube frame to start. Or chop a car? Would it be light enough strong enough? Wheels? Stella uses very esoteric special solar racer tires. Can we afford that What very narrow wheels do the best since we can go with a number of different styles. Tall and narrow is my best guess. Trailer tires? Motorcycle tires wheels? What about side forces? Wheel collapse is a real problem if you get it wrong. What to compromise? EVen if it were possible to get half the results that Stella gets that would be a win. I'd be happy with 200 mile range and an extra 50 from the sun. Fully charge in three days. Average use would still be below what you took in. Any successful solar cars in the group? Where to start? Lawrence Rhodesand don't tell me the best place to solar charge a car is on your house's roof. We are talking autonomous here. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150212/34beb056/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150213/6b893f41/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] What is needed to build a successful practical solar vehicle.
As far as I know the Xof1 car still holds the long distance record, at 35,000 km. Canadian Marcelo Da Luz and numerous volunteers and helpers built a purely solar powered car and drove it all over the U. S. and Canada beginning in 2008. Marcelo drove it from Niagara Falls to Chicago, Bemidji, Winnepeg, Moose Jaw, Edmonton, Dawson City, Inuvik (the furthest north one can go on a road), Anchorage, Whitehorse, Vancouver, Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, Los Angeles, New Orleans, Key West, Baltimore, and Pittsburgh. It retraced its earlier journey back to the Arctic Circle and Inuvik again, in August 2009. The car was very aerodynamic, was quite uncomfortable, weighed 460 pounds, carried 960 watts of PV and approximately 4kWh of Kokams lithium ion batteries. The body tilted up on struts for charging while stopped. It traveled 300 miles one sunny day, and even 130 miles at night. Top speed was 75 mph. Its consumption was 25 Wh per mile, more than ten times my own EV’s efficiency. Marcelo never charged from the grid. Curiously, the province of Ontario where Marcelo lives, prohibited solar cars at the time; maybe it still does. More information is at xof1.com. -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/What-is-needed-to-build-a-successful-practical-solar-vehicle-tp4673799p4673831.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] What is needed to build a successful practical solar vehicle.
I found some of theses Ev scooter used, with just a few k on them, but they have a such a small battery pack . I'd like to know what voltage this pack is, I'm sure I could build a pack with the extra LFP cells, increase my range. Ideas or where I could find this info.?? ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] What is needed to build a successful practical solar vehicle.
On 13 Feb 2015 at 22:27, test model via EV wrote: I found some of theses Ev scooter used, with just a few k on them, but they have a such a small battery pack . I'd like to know what voltage this pack is ... You haven't provided enough info here. Someone might be able to help, if you'd tell us what they are. Brand? Model? Even just a few photos? If they have batteries now, have you disassembled what they have to see how many cells it has, and what type? David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] What is needed to build a successful practical solar vehicle.
It is clear that it is possible to build a practical solar vehicle. The formula is 55wh per mile consumption. 1.2kw solar panel. 850 pound weight. 16kw battery pack. Range 500 miles. The vehicle must be aerodynamic. Have the proper motor, wheels carry 4 passengers with a trunk. It's been done at a high cost. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2767806/Meet-Stella-solar-powered-car-drives-500-miles-SINGLE-charge-warns-traffic-lights-change.html What can we do with our stone tools bear skins to copy this in an affordable manner? I think a tube frame to start. Or chop a car? Would it be light enough strong enough? Wheels? Stella uses very esoteric special solar racer tires. Can we afford that What very narrow wheels do the best since we can go with a number of different styles. Tall and narrow is my best guess. Trailer tires? Motorcycle tires wheels? What about side forces? Wheel collapse is a real problem if you get it wrong. What to compromise? EVen if it were possible to get half the results that Stella gets that would be a win. I'd be happy with 200 mile range and an extra 50 from the sun. Fully charge in three days. Average use would still be below what you took in. Any successful solar cars in the group? Where to start? Lawrence Rhodesand don't tell me the best place to solar charge a car is on your house's roof. We are talking autonomous here. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150212/34beb056/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] What is needed to build a successful practical solar vehicle.
On Feb 12, 2015, at 12:48 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: It is clear that it is possible to build a practical solar vehicle. Not only that, it's downright common. I'd venture to suggest that the majority of EVs on the road today are probably solar powered. At the very least, a significant minority. It's just that the panels stay on the house's rooftop, where they can produce at their optimum output constantly, and can be made much cheaper (and bigger and heavier and more powerful) and can power more than just the car. Putting the panels on the car is a neat gimmick, and I'm sure there are obscure use cases where it makes sense. But those exact same panels will _always_ produce more power in a fixed orientation at a fixed good site -- and that's before you get anywhere near the engineering challenges (and expenses). So, if practical is the goal, forget about putting the panels on the car. Quite simply, it will never ever be even remotely practical, by any common definition of the term. But if nifty is your goal and you're willing to spend insane amounts of time and money (and especially if that's your idea of fun), then go for it. Just don't pretend to fool yourself into thinking it's even remotely related to practicability. Cheers, b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150212/568ea01d/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] What is needed to build a successful practical solar vehicle.
Not going to happen. The 11 x 7 patch on the roof of the solar vehicle stays. I'm not accepting any it can't be done statementsnext. Lawrence Rhodes...I don't care how ugly. I'm making a copy of Stella. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150212/09874b6c/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] What is needed to build a successful practical solar vehicle.
Well the the ratio of panel size to output power for the vehicle does vary upon speed and usage. As a builder of a an on-board solar powered boat I have had great success with it - 4 years worth :-) My Firefly's motors ( http://www.evalbum.com/3432) are only about 800 watts total power from my crude homemade panel is 140 watts. This gives me roughly a 4.:1 ratio of charge to drive during daylight i.e. it take 4 hours of sunlight to allow travel for 1 hour. While that only means 3-4 miles of travel, it's more than enough to travel to the end of the lake and back. The boat was purpose built to fish, cruise and dive off on a small lake so big power or speed wasn't considered but it is still practical. Obviously more speed requires more power and the panel size and weight becomes an issue. I have a larger faster electric boat I plan to convert to solar some day ( http://www.evalbum.com/4767) but I expect the charge ratio to be 30:1 if the boat could maintain full throttle for 1 hour, but likely closer to 10:1 for normal cruising speeds. Dan Baker http://www.evalbum.com/3432 http://www.evalbum.com/4767 http://www.evalbum.com/4544 http://www.evalbum.com/4451 On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 5:54 PM, Michael Ross via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Lawrence, For practicalities sake, I think 77ft^2 (7m^2) is a hard sell for getting much travel done. Just roughing it out, (and a person can take some exception with any of these) a meter squared is good for maybe 1000W of incoming sun. For maybe 8 hours a sunny day and less over a year - call it 6 hours (it was far less than that here in NC this summer). You can get more than 20% efficiency from the panels if they are mounted correctly on a roof. On a car I think you need to cut that in half or more. So that 6kWh (10%) = 600Watt Hours. On a daily basis for a pretty big car compared to what I use with no panels. My daily commute in a pedal assist EV uses about 2kWh. For a round trip of 50 miles. It just would not do for me. My home mounted 5.6KW system is helping much more. Mike On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 4:00 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Not going to happen. The 11 x 7 patch on the roof of the solar vehicle stays. I'm not accepting any it can't be done statementsnext. Lawrence Rhodes...I don't care how ugly. I'm making a copy of Stella. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150212/09874b6c/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 550-2430 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell (919) 513-0418 Desk michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150212/ac0a98c7/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150212/9717ac44/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] What is needed to build a successful practical solar vehicle.
Lawrence, For practicalities sake, I think 77ft^2 (7m^2) is a hard sell for getting much travel done. Just roughing it out, (and a person can take some exception with any of these) a meter squared is good for maybe 1000W of incoming sun. For maybe 8 hours a sunny day and less over a year - call it 6 hours (it was far less than that here in NC this summer). You can get more than 20% efficiency from the panels if they are mounted correctly on a roof. On a car I think you need to cut that in half or more. So that 6kWh (10%) = 600Watt Hours. On a daily basis for a pretty big car compared to what I use with no panels. My daily commute in a pedal assist EV uses about 2kWh. For a round trip of 50 miles. It just would not do for me. My home mounted 5.6KW system is helping much more. Mike On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 4:00 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Not going to happen. The 11 x 7 patch on the roof of the solar vehicle stays. I'm not accepting any it can't be done statementsnext. Lawrence Rhodes...I don't care how ugly. I'm making a copy of Stella. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150212/09874b6c/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 550-2430 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell (919) 513-0418 Desk michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150212/ac0a98c7/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] What is needed to build a successful practical solar vehicle.
Hi Dale and All, With panels so cheap why not use enough to cruise at least 6mph. sunelec , others have them $.50-.80/wt. Or put a full 2-3kw on it and connect it to your home powering it when not motoring would be useful, cool. A new definition of powerboat!! ;^) I'm planning on 1 kw of PV to run my 34' trimaran though mostly to run it's A/C in Fla, cooking pans, light oven, heated bed/seats and everything else. And of course my EV drive but since it is a sailboat it's won't be used that much. Though 4-5 mph for solar should be doable as so easily driven on a ADC k91 from a Crown forklift. Not much reason to have an e controller as simple switching works well. Unless running a PM motor anchored in a current , sailing speed of 3mph or so could recharge the batteries with a good size flat pitched prop. Also experiment with trim like moving weight forward or make transom extensions to bring the water back together more gently can help with wthr/mile if needed. Jerry Dycus From: Dan Baker via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] What is needed to build a successful practical solar vehicle. Well the the ratio of panel size to output power for the vehicle does vary upon speed and usage. As a builder of a an on-board solar powered boat I have had great success with it - 4 years worth :-) My Firefly's motors ( http://www.evalbum.com/3432) are only about 800 watts total power from my crude homemade panel is 140 watts. This gives me roughly a 4.:1 ratio of charge to drive during daylight i.e. it take 4 hours of sunlight to allow travel for 1 hour. While that only means 3-4 miles of travel, it's more than enough to travel to the end of the lake and back. The boat was purpose built to fish, cruise and dive off on a small lake so big power or speed wasn't considered but it is still practical. Obviously more speed requires more power and the panel size and weight becomes an issue. I have a larger faster electric boat I plan to convert to solar some day ( http://www.evalbum.com/4767) but I expect the charge ratio to be 30:1 if the boat could maintain full throttle for 1 hour, but likely closer to 10:1 for normal cruising speeds. Dan Baker http://www.evalbum.com/3432 http://www.evalbum.com/4767 http://www.evalbum.com/4544 http://www.evalbum.com/4451 On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 5:54 PM, Michael Ross via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Lawrence, For practicalities sake, I think 77ft^2 (7m^2) is a hard sell for getting much travel done. Just roughing it out, (and a person can take some exception with any of these) a meter squared is good for maybe 1000W of incoming sun. For maybe 8 hours a sunny day and less over a year - call it 6 hours (it was far less than that here in NC this summer). You can get more than 20% efficiency from the panels if they are mounted correctly on a roof. On a car I think you need to cut that in half or more. So that 6kWh (10%) = 600Watt Hours. On a daily basis for a pretty big car compared to what I use with no panels. My daily commute in a pedal assist EV uses about 2kWh. For a round trip of 50 miles. It just would not do for me. My home mounted 5.6KW system is helping much more. Mike On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 4:00 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Not going to happen. The 11 x 7 patch on the roof of the solar vehicle stays. I'm not accepting any it can't be done statementsnext. Lawrence Rhodes...I don't care how ugly. I'm making a copy of Stella. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150212/09874b6c/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 550-2430 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell (919) 513-0418 Desk michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150212/ac0a98c7/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV
Re: [EVDL] What is needed to build a successful practical solar vehicle.
Lawrence started a similar thread, inspired by the Stella solar vehicle, back in September. http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble-td4671785|a4671794 He received pretty much the same replies then as now. This is a big assignment. We're talking about a 900lb 2-passenger (or is it 4-passenger?) vehicle that reportedly runs on 55Wh/mi. That's about 2.5 to 3 times my ebike's energy use, but the Stella weighs in at 18 times the bike's mass! It's also rolling on 4 wheels instead of 2. I know a car is more aerodynamic than a bike, but that's going to require some mighty skillful tweaking. The other problem is building an EV that light that's reliable enough to be a daily driver. I'm going to disregard the safety issues for now - who wants to build one just to crash test? And hey, while we're dreaming, how about one that can keep on motoring through the midwest's sustained cloud cover? We have a lot of grey skies here in Ohio. ;-) IMO, a self-sustaining solar EV inspired by the Stella isn't impossible for a hobbyist to build, but it's apt to be a lengthy, difficult, and expensive effort. That said, I'd really like to see Lawrence tackle this. I hope to someday be able to go out there and check it out. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] What is needed to build a successful practical solar vehicle.
EVDL Administrator via EV wrote: This is a big assignment. We're talking about a 900lb 2-passenger (or is it 4-passenger?) vehicle that reportedly runs on 55Wh/mi. That's about 2.5 to 3 times my ebike's energy use, but the Stella weighs in at 18 times the bike's mass! It's also rolling on 4 wheels instead of 2. I know a car is more aerodynamic than a bike, but that's going to require some mighty skillful tweaking. Here's how I would approach it: First, you need to build it more like an airplane than a car. Join the other EAA (the Experimental Aircraft Association), and learn how they build modern high-performance airplanes. For example, Burt Rutan is a genius at building high performance aircraft with techniques that can easily be done by a hobbyist. He builds structures out of styrafoam, then skins it with epoxy and cloth (fiberglass, carbon fiber, or kevlar, depending the strength and flexibility needed in each area). Second, look for a successful model, and copy it. It could be Stella, but it depends on a lot of very expensive parts. The Swiss Twike is another possibility, though it's also expensive. Axel Krause of Brusa with the mini-Evergreen EV also comes to mind. An even older example is Bob McKee's Sundancer EV. Third, KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid). Follow the lead of people like Bob Rice, Dave Cloud, and Jerry Dycus, and build your first prototype *really* simple and basic, just to get the hang of it. Bolted angle iron, not aircraft welded chrome-moly tubing. Plywood, not carbon fiber. Get it to work first; then set about improving it. -- We live in a society exquisitely dependent on science and technology, in which hardly anyone knows anything about science and technology. -- Carl Sagan -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeah...@earthlink.net ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] What is needed to build a successful practical solar vehicle.
Lawrence Rhodes wrote: It is clear that it is possible to build a practical solar vehicle. Possible, yes. Practical? That's the hard one. Practical means different things to different people. A solar-powered EV is not going to be a normal car; it will have to be exceedingly light and efficient; more like an enclosed bicycle (velocycle). This is how all the solar cars have been built so far. Now, this sort of vehicle won't appeal to everyone. But it *will* appeal to some people. There are thousands of people that commute every day on bicycles or small scooters. An enclosed solar-powered velocycle could be a welcome step up for these people. Ben Goren via EV wrote: It's just that the panels stay on the house's rooftop, where they can produce at their optimum output constantly, and can be made much cheaper (and bigger and heavier and more powerful) and can power more than just the car. That's the way to build a car of conventional size and weight. Put the solar panels on the roof at home. Put batteries in the car, to make it conventional EV. Use the solar power to recharge the batteries when at home. Putting the panels on the car is a neat gimmick, and I'm sure there are obscure use cases where it makes sense. Well, it would certainly work for a certain minority of situations. For one thing, you may not *have* a home that you can put solar panels on. It's shaded, or is an apartment with no roof area, or you're renting and the landlord won't allow it. My home for example, has too much shade. Another possibility is that you want to keep it cheap. Building a very small car scales down the size of everything -- motor, batteries, and solar panels. For example, a friend of mine had a 3-wheel recumbent trike that was his main source of daily transportation. He added a motor, battery, and a 2' x 4' solar panel to turn it into a solar vehicle. Another possibility: We have a Toyota Prius. It has so many computers that its 12v battery will run dead if it sits for more than a couple weeks. So I added a 12v solar panel just to keep the 12v battery charged. If we go on vacation, this panel keeps the 12v battery charged. -- We live in a society exquisitely dependent on science and technology, in which hardly anyone knows anything about science and technology. -- Carl Sagan -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeah...@earthlink.net ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
