Re: [EVDL] Where 20 amp receptacles are required

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 22 Jan 2016 at 18:41, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:

> Already one of the outlets of the power strip has failed, but it has 6

Manufacturers such as Hammond and Tripp-Lite make good industrial quality 
power strips, but you won't find them at your local orange or blue big box 
store.  Folks who shop there wouldn't pay what they cost - typically $50-75 
for a 4 or 6 receptacle strip.   (Medical grade strips go for double that 
and more, but I'm not sure they're really worth the extra cost.)

What you WILL find there is mostly junk.  The manufacturers, some of them 
big names, use the absolute cheapest components available and have them 
slapped together in China or Vietnam.  The one you have probably has 3 
duplex receptacles similar to (or even cheaper than) the ones you can get in 
the 50-cents-each boxes on the same store's bottom shelf.

The receptacles installed in new homes, even very expensive ones, aren't 
much better.  If the builder can save 10 cents on each one, that can easily 
add up to many thousands of dollars per year in additional profit.  All they 
have to do is last for the term of the home warranty.  

These receptacles don't make very good contact to begin with.  It gets worse 
over the years as they get less springy and corrode.  As the contact 
resistance increases, heat builds up, making things worse.  I've had 15-20 
year old builder-grade switches and receptacles fall apart in my hands when 
I took them out of the wall.  The plastic just cracked apart, probably 
because it got hot and degraded.

There's no point in trying to salvage that junk.  If you're going to pull 
out a recept to clean up the wire and put it under the terminal screw, don't 
even put it back into the box.  Replace it and the others with better new 
ones.  With a little careful shopping, you can get industrial- or hospital-
grade receptacles for 6 or 7 bucks each, sometimes less.  

It shouldn't take more than a half-hour to change the first recept, and less 
than that for succeeding ones.

You can tell the better recepts because it takes markedly more force to 
insert the plug.  They have better quality spring brass contacts so they'll 
carry on gripping plugs solidly for much longer.  You can plug and unplug 
your EV thousands of times and still have good, low-resistance contact.  

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] Where 20 amp receptacles are required

[Cor van de Water via EV]

In my garage I have marginal quality outlets: over 30 years old so prone
to corrosion. In fact, I have already opened one outlet and scraped the
gunk off of the wire which was stabbed in the back of that outlet which
became hot while charging from an outlet further down the string, and
re-attached that wire under the screw as it is supposed to be.
The actual 12 gauge wiring appears not to be the problem, even though it
is about 80 ft from service panel to the outlet that I am charging from,
but my concern with the quality and durability with the outlets have led
me to use a short heavy duty power strip/extension cord that stays
plugged into the outlet permanently and I plug and unplug my EV from the
power strip.
Already one of the outlets of the power strip has failed, but it has 6
so I have some time to go before wearing them out and then I can always
get another power strip and repeat - without wearing out the wall
outlet.
Oh and the power strip is a metal box with 3 standard duplex outlets, so
I can even replace those outlets in the power strip if I want.

Cor van de Water 
Chief Scientist 
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 

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-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of EVDL
Administrator via EV
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2016 8:35 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Where 20 amp receptacles are required

On 21 Jan 2016 at 9:36, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:

>  I wonder if there is a PLUG-IN heavier duty plug/socket combo.  You
> plug it in once and then do your plugging and unplugging from it. 

That's an interesting idea.  It would probably be more expensive that
just 
changing the receptacle when it starts to wear, but more convenient in
some 
cases.

I don't object to changing worn receptacles.  However, my experience is
that 
the only ones I've had to change are the cheapies.  Good quality
receptacles 
can take thousands of connection cycles, and still support 16 amps for
EV 
charging.

The key is "good quality."  Commercial, industrial, or hospital grade is
the 
way to go.  If you watch Ebay, often you can get a box lot of these
better 
recepts for little more than what you'd pay for "specification grade"
(about 
one notch above the 50 cent bin stuff) at the Big Orange or Blue Box.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] Where 20 amp receptacles are required

[Robert Bruninga via EV]

Although daisy changing outlets is usually not a good idea, I wonder if
there is a PLUG-IN heavier duty plug/socket combo.  You plug it in once
and then do your plugging and unplugging from it.

In the space industry we have what we call pin-savers.  These are
back-to-back male female connectors that go on to all satellite systems
during the integration and test phases so that all of thepllugging and
unplugging is not from the actual pins until flight.  Then these are
removed and the cables are plugged in directly.

Maybe there is an opportunity here for someone make one.  Easier than
replacing an outlet.  But again, it would only work if done before the
original outlet gets too worn.

Bob, WB4APR


-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Ben Apollonio via
EV
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 8:10 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Where 20 amp receptacles are required


On Jan 20, 2016, at 11:13 AM, Bill Dube via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
> If you are planning on plugging in an EV daily into a 120 volt outlet,
you would likely want to eventually change it out for a "hospital grade"
type receptacle. These are really designed to take constant, daily,
disconnection and reconnection use and are constructed of _far_ better
materials than a standard receptacle. They cost at least 5 times as much
as a standard receptacle, of course.

I second that!!  Although the availability of "hospital grade" outlets is
news to me, I have overheated/burnt/melted too many 120V outlets trying to
charge my EV at just 12A.  I use a heavy duty 12AWG cord too.  I have
found that the more industrial-looking plugs at your hardware store tend
to fit tighter into the outlets and have fewer overheating problems.

I'm actually seriously considering adding some sort of temperature sensor
to the plug.  I think Tesla did this in response to their melted
connectors issue.

-Ben

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Re: [EVDL] Where 20 amp receptacles are required

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 21 Jan 2016 at 9:36, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:

>  I wonder if there is a PLUG-IN heavier duty plug/socket combo.  You
> plug it in once and then do your plugging and unplugging from it. 

That's an interesting idea.  It would probably be more expensive that just 
changing the receptacle when it starts to wear, but more convenient in some 
cases.

I don't object to changing worn receptacles.  However, my experience is that 
the only ones I've had to change are the cheapies.  Good quality receptacles 
can take thousands of connection cycles, and still support 16 amps for EV 
charging.

The key is "good quality."  Commercial, industrial, or hospital grade is the 
way to go.  If you watch Ebay, often you can get a box lot of these better 
recepts for little more than what you'd pay for "specification grade" (about 
one notch above the 50 cent bin stuff) at the Big Orange or Blue Box.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not 
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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Re: [EVDL] Where 20 amp receptacles are required

[Ben Apollonio via EV]

On Jan 20, 2016, at 11:13 AM, Bill Dube via EV  wrote:
> If you are planning on plugging in an EV daily into a 120 volt outlet, you 
> would likely want to eventually change it out for a "hospital grade" type 
> receptacle. These are really designed to take constant, daily, disconnection 
> and reconnection use and are constructed of _far_ better materials than a 
> standard receptacle. They cost at least 5 times as much as a standard 
> receptacle, of course.

I second that!!  Although the availability of "hospital grade" outlets is news 
to me, I have overheated/burnt/melted too many 120V outlets trying to charge my 
EV at just 12A.  I use a heavy duty 12AWG cord too.  I have found that the more 
industrial-looking plugs at your hardware store tend to fit tighter into the 
outlets and have fewer overheating problems.

I'm actually seriously considering adding some sort of temperature sensor to 
the plug.  I think Tesla did this in response to their melted connectors issue.

-Ben

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Re: [EVDL] Where 20 amp receptacles are required (was: Leaf Chargers)

[Mike Nickerson via EV]

If everyone is following the rules, you shouldn't need that. From the outlet, 
you should be able to assume the wiring behind it.  You could have a 15A outlet 
with 20A wiring, but I wouldn't try to draw 16A from it.  While the wiring 
could take it, the outlet isn't rated for it.

Tesla has a system kind of what you describe.  Their charging cord has 
changeable ends.  From the plug installed, they know the voltage and current 
capability they should expect.  They draw 80% of the rated  current.

While ramping up the current, they watch the voltage.  If it drops too much, 
they back off the current and warn that the wiring has a problem or an 
extension cord is being used.  It then remembers that maximum current for the 
next time it charges at that location.

Mike



On January 20, 2016 7:43:06 AM MST, Seth Rothenberg via EV  
wrote:
>I have been thinking (dangerous I know)
>Is there a way for an instrument (live ohmmeter / ammeter)
>or an electronic circuit to recognize the gauge (and surmise
>the amperage protection likely in place) ?
>
>eg, measuring ohms from neutral to ground,
>(for 120 circuits) or doing a millisecond high-load
>test to see voltage drop?
>
>(I'm not an Electrician or an EE, but I have faith
>in their ingenuity :-)
>
>
>Where would i need this?
>For example, I got permission to charge from an inside outlet
>at a small building under construction.   no idea at this time
>if it is 20a.(In this case, I could bring my circuit ID tool
>and look in the panel but don't need to at level 1 :-)
>(I got my EVSE cable yesterday ! :-)
>
>
>
>On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 3:28 AM, Bill Dube via EV 
>wrote:
>> Paul,
>>
>> There are a number of places in your home that are _required_ by the
>> national electrical code to have dedicated 20 amp circuits for the
>120V
>> receptacles.
>> There are at a minimum five (5) 20 amp 120V receptacle circuits in a
>modern
>> house:
>>
>https://dbs.idaho.gov/programs/electrical/publications/2014_Homeowner_guide_brochure.pdf
>> Sometimes, in a low-cost tract house without a garage there are less,
>(and
>> in older homes there could be fewer) but typically there are quite a
>few
>> more. The places that you will find additional dedicated 20 amp
>receptacles
>> for; the microwave, the garbage disposal, occasionally the
>dishwasher, etc.
>> Often, the savvy custom home builder will call for upgrades on 20 amp
>120V
>> receptacles for the patio, pool, workshop area, green house, deck,
>workout
>> area, home entertainment area, basement, etc.
>>
>> You will notice that the code requires a 20 amp circuit for the
>garage, were
>> your EV is likely to be parked.
>>
>> In commercial buildings, typically _all_ of the 120V receptacles are
>20 amp.
>>
>> I used to be an electrician, many years ago. I wired (and rewired)
>> _countless_ houses. :-)
>>
>> Bill D.
>>
>>
>> On 1/19/2016 2:56 PM, dovepa via EV wrote:
>>>
>>> A 120volt outlet is usually only rated for 15 amps.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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Re: [EVDL] Where 20 amp receptacles are required

[dovepa via EV]

One can measure the diameter of the wire to determine gauge 
http://www.daycounter.com/Calculators/AWG.phtml

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message 
From: Rick Beebe via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> Date: 1/20/2016  11:16 AM  
(GMT-06:00) To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org> Subject: 
Re: [EVDL] Where 20 amp receptacles are required 
On 01/20/2016 11:33 AM, Bill Dube via EV wrote:
> Keep in mind that there is nothing to prevent someone from replacing the
> 15 amp receptacle on a 15 amp circuit with a 20 amp receptacle. You can
> still only draw 12 amps. The circuit capacity is what you care about,
> not so much the style of receptacle.
>
> The only method I am aware of to determine the ampacity of the circuit
> is to identify the breaker. There are all sorts of nifty electronic
> devices to aid you in doing this, but that is the bottom line.

Actually the only sure way is to examine the gauge of the wire attached 
to said receptacle and breaker. 14 gauge is 15amp, 12 gauge is 20amp 
(subject to distance limitations). I've seen panels where someone put a 
30amp breaker on a 14gauge wire.

Since Katrina I've done a lot of volunteer work rewiring houses in 
Biloxi, Mississippi. After the hurricane they made a code change 
requiring all the circuits to be wired with 12 gauge wire. It's a pain 
to work with but really does remove the question asked here.

The easiest way to identify a breaker is to plug something into the 
outlet and flip breakers until it goes out. A loud radio works if you 
can hear that far. If not, a second person on a cell phone is ideal. If 
you're alone, turn off all the 120v breakers on one side of the box then 
run and check the outlet. That helps cut the search time to one side of 
the box or the other.

--Rick
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Re: [EVDL] Where 20 amp receptacles are required

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 20 Jan 2016 at 11:32, dovepa via EV wrote:

> One can measure the diameter of the wire to determine gauge 

True.  Also, once you've worked with solid #12 and #14 wire a few times, 
you'll know by looking at it and/or bending it which size it is.  Stranded, 
it's a little harder to tell.

One warning, if you find #12 wire on a 15a breaker, don't assume you can 
change the breaker to a 20a.  It's dicey as far as code, depends on your 
AHJ's interpretation, but sometimes #12 is used to extend a circuit fully or 
partially wired with #14 and protected at 15a.  

All that said, if you can get a 20a recept for charging, it's 33% more 
"charging mph," and so IMO it's worth the effort.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] Where 20 amp receptacles are required

[Bill Dube via EV]

Keep in mind that there is nothing to prevent someone from replacing the 
15 amp receptacle on a 15 amp circuit with a 20 amp receptacle. You can 
still only draw 12 amps. The circuit capacity is what you care about, 
not so much the style of receptacle.


The only method I am aware of to determine the ampacity of the circuit 
is to identify the breaker. There are all sorts of nifty electronic 
devices to aid you in doing this, but that is the bottom line.


Here is a link to a typical circuit breaker identifier:
http://www.tequipment.net/Extech/CB20/Circuit-Breaker-Tracers/
Plug in the transmitter into the receptacle and then run the "sniffer" 
over each breaker in the panel. It will light up and beep when it is 
over the specific breaker for that particular circuit. No need to 
disrupt power. Very slick.


Bill D.

On 1/20/2016 8:48 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

On 20 Jan 2016 at 8:03, Mike Nickerson via EV wrote:


You could have a 15A
outlet with 20A wiring, but I wouldn't try to draw 16A from it.  While the
wiring could take it, the outlet isn't rated for it.

If you take two "commercial duty" receptacles apart, one rated 15a and the
other 20a, you won't see any difference in them.

I haven't tried this with the 15a recepts from the 50 cent baskets at the
big box stores, however.  My suspicion is that with new ones you can draw 16
amps all day.  With 20 or 30 year old cheapo receptacles, I wouldn't
recommend it.

Broadly speaking, if the left slot (with ground pin down) is T-shaped, it's
a 20a rated 120v recept, and you can use up to 16a for charging.  Otherwise,
limit your charging to 12a.

I can't think of any way to determine the receptacle's capacity
electronically, without tripping the breaker or blowing the fuse.  I'm not
an engineer, though.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] Where 20 amp receptacles are required (was: Leaf Chargers)

[dovepa via EV]

You should not exceed the rating on your breaker in the circuit. It is sized 
for the wire installed in the walls.


Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message 
From: Seth Rothenberg via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> Date: 1/20/2016  8:43 
AM  (GMT-06:00) To: Bill Dube <billd...@killacycle.com>, Electric Vehicle 
Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Where 20 amp 
receptacles are required (was: Leaf
Chargers) 
I have been thinking (dangerous I know)
Is there a way for an instrument (live ohmmeter / ammeter)
or an electronic circuit to recognize the gauge (and surmise
the amperage protection likely in place) ?

eg, measuring ohms from neutral to ground,
(for 120 circuits) or doing a millisecond high-load
test to see voltage drop?

(I'm not an Electrician or an EE, but I have faith
in their ingenuity :-)


Where would i need this?
For example, I got permission to charge from an inside outlet
at a small building under construction.   no idea at this time
if it is 20a.    (In this case, I could bring my circuit ID tool
and look in the panel but don't need to at level 1 :-)
(I got my EVSE cable yesterday ! :-)



On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 3:28 AM, Bill Dube via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
> Paul,
>
> There are a number of places in your home that are _required_ by the
> national electrical code to have dedicated 20 amp circuits for the 120V
> receptacles.
> There are at a minimum five (5) 20 amp 120V receptacle circuits in a modern
> house:
> https://dbs.idaho.gov/programs/electrical/publications/2014_Homeowner_guide_brochure.pdf
> Sometimes, in a low-cost tract house without a garage there are less, (and
> in older homes there could be fewer) but typically there are quite a few
> more. The places that you will find additional dedicated 20 amp receptacles
> for; the microwave, the garbage disposal, occasionally the dishwasher, etc.
> Often, the savvy custom home builder will call for upgrades on 20 amp 120V
> receptacles for the patio, pool, workshop area, green house, deck, workout
> area, home entertainment area, basement, etc.
>
> You will notice that the code requires a 20 amp circuit for the garage, were
> your EV is likely to be parked.
>
> In commercial buildings, typically _all_ of the 120V receptacles are 20 amp.
>
> I used to be an electrician, many years ago. I wired (and rewired)
> _countless_ houses. :-)
>
> Bill D.
>
>
> On 1/19/2016 2:56 PM, dovepa via EV wrote:
>>
>> A 120volt outlet is usually only rated for 15 amps.
>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [EVDL] Where 20 amp receptacles are required

[John Lussmyer via EV]

On Wed Jan 20 09:16:02 PST 2016 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>The easiest way to identify a breaker is to plug something into the
>outlet and flip breakers until it goes out. A loud radio works if you
>can hear that far. If not, a second person on a cell phone is ideal. If
>you're alone, turn off all the 120v breakers on one side of the box then
>run and check the outlet. That helps cut the search time to one side of
>the box or the other.

Then continue with your binary search.
Turn on 1/2 the breakers, check again, etc...


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Re: [EVDL] Where 20 amp receptacles are required

[Bill Dube via EV]

It is true that 20 amp circuits typically have 15 amp receptacles 
installed.


The difference is that 15 amp receptacles have two plain straight slots 
(plus the round ground opening) and the 20 amp receptacle has a neutral 
slot (right hand slot) with an additional horizontal slit added to 
accommodate a 20 amp only plug.


You can go to the panel and simply check the breaker to determine if the 
circuit is 15 or 20 amps. They are required to be labeled as to "garage" 
or "bedrooms" etc. Plug a light into the outlet and test if you can 
switch it off with the corresponding breaker.


Aside from the extra horizontal slot, I have not noticed a significant 
difference in 20 amp and 15 amp receptacles. I have plugged in chargers, 
heaters, welders, compressors, air conditioners, and other heavy loads 
into 15 amp receptacles on 20 amp circuits with no noticeable ill 
effects for decades. They seem to take the full 20 amps without harm. It 
may be that the only difference is the additional horizontal slot, but I 
haven't fully investigated. I would think that if there were any danger 
of over heating, etc. that the standard practice of installing 15 amp 
120V receptacles on a 20 amp circuit would not be allowed, or at least 
strongly discouraged at least in in some localities, but it is not. 
Fires and the like tend to get the electrical regulation board's attention.


If you are planning on plugging in an EV daily into a 120 volt outlet, 
you would likely want to eventually change it out for a "hospital grade" 
type receptacle. These are really designed to take constant, daily, 
disconnection and reconnection use and are constructed of _far_ better 
materials than a standard receptacle. They cost at least 5 times as much 
as a standard receptacle, of course.


Bill D.

On 1/20/2016 7:20 AM, Mike Nickerson wrote:

While the circuit in the garage is probably 20A, it may be wired with 15A 
outlets.  They are pretty easy to change, though.

If I were going to charge an EV on a 120V outlet regularly, I would probably 
change it anyway.  Most home construction uses light duty outlets that aren't 
built to take the load for hours per day.  Change it to a good heavy duty 
outlet and it will work much better.

Mike


On January 20, 2016 1:28:43 AM MST, Bill Dube via EV  wrote:

Paul,

There are a number of places in your home that are _required_ by the
national electrical code to have dedicated 20 amp circuits for the 120V

receptacles.
There are at a minimum five (5) 20 amp 120V receptacle circuits in a
modern house:
https://dbs.idaho.gov/programs/electrical/publications/2014_Homeowner_guide_brochure.pdf
Sometimes, in a low-cost tract house without a garage there are less,
(and in older homes there could be fewer) but typically there are quite

a few more. The places that you will find additional dedicated 20 amp
receptacles for; the microwave, the garbage disposal, occasionally the
dishwasher, etc. Often, the savvy custom home builder will call for
upgrades on 20 amp 120V receptacles for the patio, pool, workshop area,

green house, deck, workout area, home entertainment area, basement,
etc.

You will notice that the code requires a 20 amp circuit for the garage,

were your EV is likely to be parked.

In commercial buildings, typically _all_ of the 120V receptacles are 20
amp.

I used to be an electrician, many years ago. I wired (and rewired)
_countless_ houses. :-)

Bill D.


On 1/19/2016 2:56 PM, dovepa via EV wrote:

A 120volt outlet is usually only rated for 15 amps.




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Re: [EVDL] Where 20 amp receptacles are required (was: Leaf Chargers)

[dovepa via EV]

Better check the wire and breaker before changing outlets.


Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message 
From: Mike Nickerson via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> Date: 1/20/2016  8:20 
AM  (GMT-06:00) To: Bill Dube <billd...@killacycle.com>, Electric Vehicle 
Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Where 20 amp 
receptacles are required (was: Leaf
Chargers) 
While the circuit in the garage is probably 20A, it may be wired with 15A 
outlets.  They are pretty easy to change, though.

If I were going to charge an EV on a 120V outlet regularly, I would probably 
change it anyway.  Most home construction uses light duty outlets that aren't 
built to take the load for hours per day.  Change it to a good heavy duty 
outlet and it will work much better.

Mike


On January 20, 2016 1:28:43 AM MST, Bill Dube via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
>Paul,
>
>There are a number of places in your home that are _required_ by the 
>national electrical code to have dedicated 20 amp circuits for the 120V
>
>receptacles.
>There are at a minimum five (5) 20 amp 120V receptacle circuits in a 
>modern house:
>https://dbs.idaho.gov/programs/electrical/publications/2014_Homeowner_guide_brochure.pdf
>Sometimes, in a low-cost tract house without a garage there are less, 
>(and in older homes there could be fewer) but typically there are quite
>
>a few more. The places that you will find additional dedicated 20 amp 
>receptacles for; the microwave, the garbage disposal, occasionally the 
>dishwasher, etc. Often, the savvy custom home builder will call for 
>upgrades on 20 amp 120V receptacles for the patio, pool, workshop area,
>
>green house, deck, workout area, home entertainment area, basement,
>etc.
>
>You will notice that the code requires a 20 amp circuit for the garage,
>
>were your EV is likely to be parked.
>
>In commercial buildings, typically _all_ of the 120V receptacles are 20
>amp.
>
>I used to be an electrician, many years ago. I wired (and rewired) 
>_countless_ houses. :-)
>
>Bill D.
>
>
>On 1/19/2016 2:56 PM, dovepa via EV wrote:
>> A 120volt outlet is usually only rated for 15 amps.
>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [EVDL] Where 20 amp receptacles are required (was: Leaf Chargers)

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 20 Jan 2016 at 8:03, Mike Nickerson via EV wrote:

> You could have a 15A
> outlet with 20A wiring, but I wouldn't try to draw 16A from it.  While the
> wiring could take it, the outlet isn't rated for it.

If you take two "commercial duty" receptacles apart, one rated 15a and the 
other 20a, you won't see any difference in them.  

I haven't tried this with the 15a recepts from the 50 cent baskets at the 
big box stores, however.  My suspicion is that with new ones you can draw 16 
amps all day.  With 20 or 30 year old cheapo receptacles, I wouldn't 
recommend it.

Broadly speaking, if the left slot (with ground pin down) is T-shaped, it's 
a 20a rated 120v recept, and you can use up to 16a for charging.  Otherwise, 
limit your charging to 12a.

I can't think of any way to determine the receptacle's capacity 
electronically, without tripping the breaker or blowing the fuse.  I'm not 
an engineer, though.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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[EVDL] Where 20 amp receptacles are required (was: Leaf Chargers)

[Bill Dube via EV]

Paul,

There are a number of places in your home that are _required_ by the 
national electrical code to have dedicated 20 amp circuits for the 120V 
receptacles.
There are at a minimum five (5) 20 amp 120V receptacle circuits in a 
modern house:

https://dbs.idaho.gov/programs/electrical/publications/2014_Homeowner_guide_brochure.pdf
Sometimes, in a low-cost tract house without a garage there are less, 
(and in older homes there could be fewer) but typically there are quite 
a few more. The places that you will find additional dedicated 20 amp 
receptacles for; the microwave, the garbage disposal, occasionally the 
dishwasher, etc. Often, the savvy custom home builder will call for 
upgrades on 20 amp 120V receptacles for the patio, pool, workshop area, 
green house, deck, workout area, home entertainment area, basement, etc.


You will notice that the code requires a 20 amp circuit for the garage, 
were your EV is likely to be parked.


In commercial buildings, typically _all_ of the 120V receptacles are 20 amp.

I used to be an electrician, many years ago. I wired (and rewired) 
_countless_ houses. :-)


Bill D.


On 1/19/2016 2:56 PM, dovepa via EV wrote:

A 120volt outlet is usually only rated for 15 amps.





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Re: [EVDL] Where 20 amp receptacles are required (was: Leaf Chargers)

[Seth Rothenberg via EV]

I have been thinking (dangerous I know)
Is there a way for an instrument (live ohmmeter / ammeter)
or an electronic circuit to recognize the gauge (and surmise
the amperage protection likely in place) ?

eg, measuring ohms from neutral to ground,
(for 120 circuits) or doing a millisecond high-load
test to see voltage drop?

(I'm not an Electrician or an EE, but I have faith
in their ingenuity :-)


Where would i need this?
For example, I got permission to charge from an inside outlet
at a small building under construction.   no idea at this time
if it is 20a.(In this case, I could bring my circuit ID tool
and look in the panel but don't need to at level 1 :-)
(I got my EVSE cable yesterday ! :-)



On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 3:28 AM, Bill Dube via EV  wrote:
> Paul,
>
> There are a number of places in your home that are _required_ by the
> national electrical code to have dedicated 20 amp circuits for the 120V
> receptacles.
> There are at a minimum five (5) 20 amp 120V receptacle circuits in a modern
> house:
> https://dbs.idaho.gov/programs/electrical/publications/2014_Homeowner_guide_brochure.pdf
> Sometimes, in a low-cost tract house without a garage there are less, (and
> in older homes there could be fewer) but typically there are quite a few
> more. The places that you will find additional dedicated 20 amp receptacles
> for; the microwave, the garbage disposal, occasionally the dishwasher, etc.
> Often, the savvy custom home builder will call for upgrades on 20 amp 120V
> receptacles for the patio, pool, workshop area, green house, deck, workout
> area, home entertainment area, basement, etc.
>
> You will notice that the code requires a 20 amp circuit for the garage, were
> your EV is likely to be parked.
>
> In commercial buildings, typically _all_ of the 120V receptacles are 20 amp.
>
> I used to be an electrician, many years ago. I wired (and rewired)
> _countless_ houses. :-)
>
> Bill D.
>
>
> On 1/19/2016 2:56 PM, dovepa via EV wrote:
>>
>> A 120volt outlet is usually only rated for 15 amps.
>>
>>
>>
>
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