Re: [EVDL] Include in events: "EV to power your home"

2021-10-05 Thread Jay Summet via EV 
In Florida with Duke Energy we just got notified that starting Jan 1 
2022 there will be a $30 minimum bill amount (in addition to the current 
$11.45 connection fee).


I would prefer they raise the connection fee on everybody as opposed to 
just charging solar people, part year residents, and people who use very 
little power a minimum amount each month.


Jay

On 10/5/21 6:11 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:

This from one EVDL member remindign me of how bad some utilities
are at progress.  I removed his info since I didnt wait for permission
to repost:

In Maryland it costs me $8/mo to be grid tied.
His cost is more like $70/mo or more!
I agree, I woiuld be buldozing a path to "off grid" designs there.
--

Actually, it's even worse than that.  When I originally came up
with the $70 a month figure my wife wasn't working.  Now she
volunteers at the  5 days a week.  That uses about 10kwh
per day EV charging and, she has to charge mostly when the
sun isn't shining.

The new 'Solar Customer' pricing is $50 a month for grid
connection plus about $15 a month for taxes and other fees,
plus now instead of banking power for free, I get paid
wholesale for each kWh I push and charged retail for every
kwh I pull from the grid.  The difference is about 8 cents per kwh.

So next year when this goes into effect I'll pay on average
$36 a month for banking power, plus the $65 mentioned above.
SO closer to $100 a month even though I'm net zero (well
surplus actually) on power.

I'm building a 10kwh solar charging station to offset most
EV charging costs and then, I'm going off-grid.

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Re: [EVDL] Include in events: "EV to power your home"

2021-10-05 Thread Robert Bruninga via EV 
This from one EVDL member remindign me of how bad some utilities
are at progress.  I removed his info since I didnt wait for permission
to repost:

In Maryland it costs me $8/mo to be grid tied.
His cost is more like $70/mo or more!
I agree, I woiuld be buldozing a path to "off grid" designs there.
--
> Actually, it's even worse than that.  When I originally came up
> with the $70 a month figure my wife wasn't working.  Now she
> volunteers at the  5 days a week.  That uses about 10kwh
> per day EV charging and, she has to charge mostly when the
> sun isn't shining.
>
> The new 'Solar Customer' pricing is $50 a month for grid
> connection plus about $15 a month for taxes and other fees,
> plus now instead of banking power for free, I get paid
> wholesale for each kWh I push and charged retail for every
> kwh I pull from the grid.  The difference is about 8 cents per kwh.
>
> So next year when this goes into effect I'll pay on average
> $36 a month for banking power, plus the $65 mentioned above.
> SO closer to $100 a month even though I'm net zero (well
> surplus actually) on power.
>
> I'm building a 10kwh solar charging station to offset most
> EV charging costs and then, I'm going off-grid.
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Re: [EVDL] Include in events: "EV to power your home"

2021-10-03 Thread Robert Bruninga via EV 
I believe we have discussed this and that you do have some kinda
justification for "going off grid", but for others, it makes no economic
sense to me.If I generate all my power, I am still perfectly happy to
pay $8 a month for keeping the grid accouint.  Kinda like
insurance..

The last thing I want to do in life is maintain batteries for the
rest of my life.   Out of the blue I took a life changing hit in my
health and cannot possibly maintain all the special "features"
I have built into the house for "fun" but now, impossible to
maintain by my wife.  I am an ardent DIY guy, but now am
a CDIMA (Cant do it myself Anymore). - Bob

On Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 12:58 PM Peter VanDerWal via EV
 wrote:
>
> > I said that. Lost power for three days back in the 90's when a tornado blew 
> > through. Not worth
> > investing a lot of money for 3 days every 25 years.
>
> I agree it's not worth buying an EV JUST to use it as a backup power source.  
> However, most people buy EVs to drive.  When deciding which EV to buy, one 
> that has the capability of powering your house in an emergency situation 
> might just be a deciding factor for many people.
>
> FWIW I moved my critical loads (Fridge/Freezer, HVAC, etc.) to a new subpanel 
> with a transfer switch so that I could power my critical loads from my EVs 
> during a power outage.
> Once we go off-grid this setup will allow me to get by with a smaller house 
> battery. Even if we get an extended period of low sunshine, either of my EVs 
> could power my critical loads for a week or two, which is more than long 
> enough wait out the stormy weather.
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Re: [EVDL] Include in events: "EV to power your home"

2021-10-03 Thread Peter VanDerWal via EV 
> I said that. Lost power for three days back in the 90's when a tornado blew 
> through. Not worth
> investing a lot of money for 3 days every 25 years.

I agree it's not worth buying an EV JUST to use it as a backup power source.  
However, most people buy EVs to drive.  When deciding which EV to buy, one that 
has the capability of powering your house in an emergency situation might just 
be a deciding factor for many people.

FWIW I moved my critical loads (Fridge/Freezer, HVAC, etc.) to a new subpanel 
with a transfer switch so that I could power my critical loads from my EVs 
during a power outage.
Once we go off-grid this setup will allow me to get by with a smaller house 
battery. Even if we get an extended period of low sunshine, either of my EVs 
could power my critical loads for a week or two, which is more than long enough 
wait out the stormy weather.
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Re: [EVDL] Include in events: "EV to power your home"

2021-09-30 Thread EVDL Administrator via EV 
On 30 Sep 2021 at 19:13, paul dove via EV wrote:

>  Yes I am because that's the logical conclusion based on life experience. 

Good grief.  That's YOUR "life experience," not anyone else's.

For *YOU*, an EV that can provide backup power may not be a good investment.

Fair enough.  That much is fine.

But then you said, "I doubt very seriously if that´s a significant selling 
point."

If you have market research data that shows that, let's see it. Otherwise 
you're just spitballing.

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

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Re: [EVDL] Include in events: "EV to power your home"

2021-09-30 Thread Robert Bruninga via EV 
The Ioniq -5 comes with a 2 kW 120v outlet capability.
The ford has 9.6 kW.  More will follow.  Let me know and
I will maintain a list.

Its not just power outages.  I have used mine to mow my rental
property lawn, to cut a downed tree off the road, and many dozens
of times I am working in the driveway and it is easier to plug into
the car thn fuss with a 100' extension cord.. Also, picnicking and
camping
bob

On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 8:03 AM paul dove  wrote:
>
> I doubt very seriously if that’s a significant selling point. My power went 
> out maybe 5 times in 40 years. Besides why would I use my car that I would 
> need to drive. It’s trying to solve a non-existent problem.
>
>
> Sent from AT Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
> On Wednesday, September 29, 2021, 3:33 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV 
>  wrote:
>
> > EV owners should consider encouraging people to demonstrate how
> > any EV or plugin can be used to power one's house critical needs during
> > a power outage for days or a week.  This is a real selling point for EV's
> > that has not been mentioned for ten years of EV's.  But finally the
> > Ford F150 Lightening is including it in their advertising.
> >
> > Please see the photo of our National Drive Electric demo last weekend
> > of home power at: http://aprs.org/FrankenVolt.html
> >
> > Thanks
> > Bob Bruninga, PE,
> > Author http://aprs.org/Energy-Choices.html
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Re: [EVDL] Include in events: "EV to power your home"

2021-09-30 Thread paul dove via EV 
 I said that. Lost power for three days back in the 90's when a tornado blew 
through. Not worth investing a lot of money for 3 days every 25 years.

On Thursday, September 30, 2021, 2:28:47 PM CDT, Robert Bruninga 
 wrote:  
 
 Tell that to the millions who lost power for weeks a while back.
Everyone's local grid has its own vulnerabilities.

People that need it should be aware of this value of EV's to
their situation.
bob

On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 8:03 AM paul dove  wrote:
>
> I doubt very seriously if that’s a significant selling point. My power went 
> out maybe 5 times in 40 years. Besides why would I use my car that I would 
> need to drive. It’s trying to solve a non-existent problem.
>
>
> Sent from AT Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
> On Wednesday, September 29, 2021, 3:33 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV 
>  wrote:
>
> > EV owners should consider encouraging people to demonstrate how
> > any EV or plugin can be used to power one's house critical needs during
> > a power outage for days or a week.  This is a real selling point for EV's
> > that has not been mentioned for ten years of EV's.  But finally the
> > Ford F150 Lightening is including it in their advertising.
> >
> > Please see the photo of our National Drive Electric demo last weekend
> > of home power at: http://aprs.org/FrankenVolt.html
> >
> > Thanks
> > Bob Bruninga, PE,
> > Author http://aprs.org/Energy-Choices.html
> -- next part --
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Re: [EVDL] Include in events: "EV to power your home"

2021-09-30 Thread Robert Bruninga via EV 
Tell that to the millions who lost power for weeks a while back.
Everyone's local grid has its own vulnerabilities.

People that need it should be aware of this value of EV's to
their situation.
bob

On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 8:03 AM paul dove  wrote:
>
> I doubt very seriously if that’s a significant selling point. My power went 
> out maybe 5 times in 40 years. Besides why would I use my car that I would 
> need to drive. It’s trying to solve a non-existent problem.
>
>
> Sent from AT Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
> On Wednesday, September 29, 2021, 3:33 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV 
>  wrote:
>
> > EV owners should consider encouraging people to demonstrate how
> > any EV or plugin can be used to power one's house critical needs during
> > a power outage for days or a week.  This is a real selling point for EV's
> > that has not been mentioned for ten years of EV's.  But finally the
> > Ford F150 Lightening is including it in their advertising.
> >
> > Please see the photo of our National Drive Electric demo last weekend
> > of home power at: http://aprs.org/FrankenVolt.html
> >
> > Thanks
> > Bob Bruninga, PE,
> > Author http://aprs.org/Energy-Choices.html
> -- next part --
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Re: [EVDL] Include in events: "EV to power your home"

2021-09-30 Thread paul dove via EV 
 Yes I am because that's the logical conclusion based on life experience. If 
worried I would get a powerwall or a generator but it's not worth the 
investment for the majority of the people.

On Thursday, September 30, 2021, 1:45:08 PM CDT, Willie McKemie via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 You are assuming that your grid will be as reliable in the future as it has
been in the past.


On Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 12:06 PM paul dove via EV  wrote:

> I doubt very seriously if that’s a significant selling point. My power
> went out maybe 5 times in 40 years. Besides why would I use my car that I
> would need to drive. It’s trying to solve a non-existent problem.
>
>
> Sent from AT Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Wednesday, September 29, 2021, 3:33 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV <
> ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
>
> > EV owners should consider encouraging people to demonstrate how
> > any EV or plugin can be used to power one's house critical needs during
> > a power outage for days or a week.  This is a real selling point for EV's
> > that has not been mentioned for ten years of EV's.  But finally the
> > Ford F150 Lightening is including it in their advertising.
> >
> > Please see the photo of our National Drive Electric demo last weekend
> > of home power at: http://aprs.org/FrankenVolt.html
> >
> > Thanks
> > Bob Bruninga, PE,
> > Author http://aprs.org/Energy-Choices.html
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Re: [EVDL] Include in events: "EV to power your home"

2021-09-30 Thread EVDL Administrator via EV 
On 30 Sep 2021 at 12:03, paul dove via EV wrote:

> I doubt very seriously if thatTMs a significant selling point. My power went
> out maybe 5 times in 40 years.

Don't assume that your experience is the same as everyone else's.  That 
careless error has tripped up no small number of business owners and 
managers.  :-\

There are plenty of rural areas in the US - and elsewhere - where power cuts 
aren't rare events at all.  

That in fact was the case for the area where I live, up until a few years 
ago.  It worthwhile to add a changeover panel and inverter for backup power 
to some circuits.

If an EV buyer lived in such an area, and (for example) had a freezer full 
of expensive food, he might very well choose an EV with backup power 
capability over a similarly priced one that didn't have it.

IMO, we should welcome that kind of competition in the EV business.

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
 It is well known (Potts, 2014; Catcher, 2014) that the internet
 is made of cats. The net is a series of tubes (Stevens, 2006) 
 through which cats carry information in packets (Butterworth, 
 2011). The failure modes have been less well studied. Several 
 exist, but to date the most researched are fracture, disjunc-
 tion, and joule-based disruption. FRACTURE causes complete 
 regional internet failure. It occurs when construction or other 
 human activity severs or collapses an underground tunnel through 
 which the cats travel. The symptom of DISJUNCTION is high lat-
 ency; the usual cause is hooligans placing containers of tuna or 
 cream at tunnel junctions. Data corruption results from JOULE-
 BASED DISRUPTION, caused by the static charge that accumulates
 as long-haired cats speed through the tunnels. This shocks the 
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Re: [EVDL] Include in events: "EV to power your home"

2021-09-30 Thread Willie McKemie via EV 
You are assuming that your grid will be as reliable in the future as it has
been in the past.


On Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 12:06 PM paul dove via EV  wrote:

> I doubt very seriously if that’s a significant selling point. My power
> went out maybe 5 times in 40 years. Besides why would I use my car that I
> would need to drive. It’s trying to solve a non-existent problem.
>
>
> Sent from AT Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Wednesday, September 29, 2021, 3:33 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV <
> ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
>
> > EV owners should consider encouraging people to demonstrate how
> > any EV or plugin can be used to power one's house critical needs during
> > a power outage for days or a week.  This is a real selling point for EV's
> > that has not been mentioned for ten years of EV's.  But finally the
> > Ford F150 Lightening is including it in their advertising.
> >
> > Please see the photo of our National Drive Electric demo last weekend
> > of home power at: http://aprs.org/FrankenVolt.html
> >
> > Thanks
> > Bob Bruninga, PE,
> > Author http://aprs.org/Energy-Choices.html
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Re: [EVDL] Include in events: "EV to power your home"

2021-09-30 Thread Peri Hartman via EV 
I'm wondering how V2G will work out, too. If you have a 100kWh battery, 
you certainly could use some of that to power your home and still have 
plenty left to drive the vehicle around.


But, I think people will fear that power might be out for a while and 
that there will be long lines to recharge their vehicle at public 
stations, assuming that power isn't out, too. In other words, they'll 
want to conserve the battery energy in case they aren't able to recharge 
in a reasonable amount of time.


Peri

<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>

-- Original Message --
From: "paul dove via EV" 
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: "paul dove" 
Sent: 30-Sep-21 05:03:22
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Include in events: "EV to power your home"


I doubt very seriously if that’s a significant selling point. My power went out 
maybe 5 times in 40 years. Besides why would I use my car that I would need to 
drive. It’s trying to solve a non-existent problem.


Sent from AT Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, September 29, 2021, 3:33 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV 
 wrote:


 EV owners should consider encouraging people to demonstrate how
 any EV or plugin can be used to power one's house critical needs during
 a power outage for days or a week.  This is a real selling point for EV's
 that has not been mentioned for ten years of EV's.  But finally the
 Ford F150 Lightening is including it in their advertising.

 Please see the photo of our National Drive Electric demo last weekend
 of home power at: http://aprs.org/FrankenVolt.html

 Thanks
 Bob Bruninga, PE,
 Author http://aprs.org/Energy-Choices.html

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Re: [EVDL] Include in events: "EV to power your home"

2021-09-30 Thread paul dove via EV 
I doubt very seriously if that’s a significant selling point. My power went out 
maybe 5 times in 40 years. Besides why would I use my car that I would need to 
drive. It’s trying to solve a non-existent problem.


Sent from AT Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, September 29, 2021, 3:33 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV 
 wrote:

> EV owners should consider encouraging people to demonstrate how
> any EV or plugin can be used to power one's house critical needs during
> a power outage for days or a week.  This is a real selling point for EV's
> that has not been mentioned for ten years of EV's.  But finally the
> Ford F150 Lightening is including it in their advertising.
>
> Please see the photo of our National Drive Electric demo last weekend
> of home power at: http://aprs.org/FrankenVolt.html
>
> Thanks
> Bob Bruninga, PE,
> Author http://aprs.org/Energy-Choices.html
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Re: [EVDL] Include in events: "EV to power your home"

2021-09-29 Thread Alan Brinkman via EV 
The Nissan Leaf in Japan has been able to supply power for some time now.
In the US, standards are being worked on for safety. The Wallbox Quasar is
almost ready for market for vehicles with DC output connections.

I would like a vehicle to take camping or park at a cabin where power is
not available, to avoid thinking about a generator. My son in law is
getting into solar, that may be the ticket.

Alan

On Wed, Sep 29, 2021, 1:34 PM Robert Bruninga via EV 
wrote:

> > EV owners should consider encouraging people to demonstrate how
> > any EV or plugin can be used to power one's house critical needs during
> > a power outage for days or a week.  This is a real selling point for EV's
> > that has not been mentioned for ten years of EV's.  But finally the
> > Ford F150 Lightening is including it in their advertising.
> >
> > Please see the photo of our National Drive Electric demo last weekend
> > of home power at: http://aprs.org/FrankenVolt.html
> >
> > Thanks
> > Bob Bruninga, PE,
> > Author http://aprs.org/Energy-Choices.html
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[EVDL] Include in events: "EV to power your home"

2021-09-29 Thread Robert Bruninga via EV 
> EV owners should consider encouraging people to demonstrate how
> any EV or plugin can be used to power one's house critical needs during
> a power outage for days or a week.  This is a real selling point for EV's
> that has not been mentioned for ten years of EV's.  But finally the
> Ford F150 Lightening is including it in their advertising.
>
> Please see the photo of our National Drive Electric demo last weekend
> of home power at: http://aprs.org/FrankenVolt.html
>
> Thanks
> Bob Bruninga, PE,
> Author http://aprs.org/Energy-Choices.html
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