Re: [EVDL] Cal's OH EV : Leaf recommendations?

[Peri Hartman via EV]

Cal,

Great that you are considering an EV !

You have detailed this pretty well. If you are buying a used Leaf, say 
2011 model, it will probably be down to 9 bars capacity or will be soon. 
I suspect, in winter, you might see your range drop below 50 or less 
miles on a full charge. Still should be adequate, considering you have 
41 miles. But you will need to ensure a complete, full charge before 
your return trip. It sounds like that is doable. Just want to point it 
out.


I'm basing this on my 2011 Leaf experience. Since I'm doing mostly 
hilly, stop & go city driving my range is likely less than what you will 
get at 70mph on the freeway. The power consumption gage is usually 
around 2.5 miles / kwh in winter. We have more modest temps than you. 
So, in that respect, you would get poorer mileage.


Also, you need to take into account power used for the heat and defrost.

I recommend doing some more research to see what other people get in 
your area. How many miles / kwh. Maybe even how many kw the heater and 
defrost take once up to temp.


Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "Cal Frye via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
To: "Cal Frye" <c...@calfrye.com>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
<ev@lists.evdl.org>

Cc:
Sent: 24-Feb-17 11:05:32 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Cal's OH EV : Leaf recommendations?


UPDATE

[as reported last November to the list, my new job is taking me from 
Oberlin to Case Western Reserve University, a one-way distance of 41.5 
miles. This is, of course, NE Ohio, so weather is a concern. A used 
Leaf can be obtained for around $10-11,000. Is this possible?]


I have test-driven a 2015 Leaf S on my commute today. Arrived at the 
office with 44 miles remaining range on the guessometer. This model 
displays all the battery capacity bars, a consideration in my 
selection. This works for me. I believe I'm about to have a new EV 
grin.

Caveats and considerations:

There are five level 2 charging spaces, offering 3kW, available 
convenient to my office. There are two charging spaces near my home in 
Oberlin, unmarked but at least 3kW, possibly 6kW. Both ends of the trip 
are adequately supplied, so the distance requirement is easily within 
the Leaf's capacity. Further, there are DC charging spots offered at 
random Walmarts between the two endpoints, should one have to hunt for 
backup or extra range. This model does have the 6kW charger.


Today, while February, the temperature starting out was 54F. No cabin 
heat or defrost was necessary, and the seat heater was determined to 
be, if anything, too warm. I might need warmer socks. I recognize the 
climate will have an impact, but I believe I can afford to lose range 
for comfort and still make the trip work.


I did not feel terribly inconvenienced by selecting both the 
regenerative braking and eco modes when I set out. I did drive for 
perhaps 20 miles at 70mph, while being passed on the left by folks at 
even higher speeds. I can learn to live with that ;-)


There was exactly one BMW i3 available on the used market within 250 
miles of me, and for rather more money than the Leaf. A couple months 
of looking didn't turn up a single VW e-golf. For the difference in 
price, I can easily afford to instal a 240v outlet in my garage and 
have the convenience charger modified for 240v operation or install 
some other charger at home.


Plus, my wife drives a Honda ICE and has a shorter commute, so if 
conditions suggest range is too short, we can swap. I will strive to 
keep this from happening too often ;-)



 Cal Frye

c...@calfrye.com
Oberlin, OH 44074


"In physics the truth is rarely perfectly clear, and that is certainly 
universally the case in human affairs. Hence, what is not surrounded by 
uncertainty cannot be the truth." -- Richard Feynmann (1918 - 1988).





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Re: [EVDL] Cal's OH EV : Leaf recommendations?

[Cal Frye via EV]

UPDATE

[as reported last November to the list, my new job is taking me from 
Oberlin to Case Western Reserve University, a one-way distance of 41.5 
miles. This is, of course, NE Ohio, so weather is a concern. A used Leaf 
can be obtained for around $10-11,000. Is this possible?]


I have test-driven a 2015 Leaf S on my commute today. Arrived at the 
office with 44 miles remaining range on the guessometer. This model 
displays all the battery capacity bars, a consideration in my selection. 
This works for me. I believe I'm about to have a new EV grin.

Caveats and considerations:

There are five level 2 charging spaces, offering 3kW, available 
convenient to my office. There are two charging spaces near my home in 
Oberlin, unmarked but at least 3kW, possibly 6kW. Both ends of the trip 
are adequately supplied, so the distance requirement is easily within 
the Leaf's capacity. Further, there are DC charging spots offered at 
random Walmarts between the two endpoints, should one have to hunt for 
backup or extra range. This model does have the 6kW charger.


Today, while February, the temperature starting out was 54F. No cabin 
heat or defrost was necessary, and the seat heater was determined to be, 
if anything, too warm. I might need warmer socks. I recognize the 
climate will have an impact, but I believe I can afford to lose range 
for comfort and still make the trip work.


I did not feel terribly inconvenienced by selecting both the 
regenerative braking and eco modes when I set out. I did drive for 
perhaps 20 miles at 70mph, while being passed on the left by folks at 
even higher speeds. I can learn to live with that ;-)


There was exactly one BMW i3 available on the used market within 250 
miles of me, and for rather more money than the Leaf. A couple months of 
looking didn't turn up a single VW e-golf. For the difference in price, 
I can easily afford to instal a 240v outlet in my garage and have the 
convenience charger modified for 240v operation or install some other 
charger at home.


Plus, my wife drives a Honda ICE and has a shorter commute, so if 
conditions suggest range is too short, we can swap. I will strive to 
keep this from happening too often ;-)



 Cal Frye

c...@calfrye.com
Oberlin, OH 44074


"In physics the truth is rarely perfectly clear, and that is certainly universally 
the case in human affairs. Hence, what is not surrounded by uncertainty cannot be the 
truth." -- Richard Feynmann (1918 - 1988).

 




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Re: [EVDL] Cal's OH EV : Leaf recommendations?

[Cal Frye via EV]

Thanks, Bruce, for the truly exhaustive analysis.
You guessed rather accurately from the meagre information I gave you.

Leaves (Leafs?) of the 2013-2014 vintage, SL or SV (I dislike leather
seats, but that's a personal problem) seem to be in the $13-15,000
range, which is attractive.

But yes, the weather is a concern. There are non-freeway routes
available, and a much shorter drive to the light rail station is also an
option. I am eager, but not in such a hurry that I will stint on the
homework. Part of that homework is to poll you all, especially those
with hands-on experience with the Leaf, for advice.

I will be working at Case Western Reserve University, and there are
several EVSE's available on campus, but I'm also warned that parking is
marginally adequate and competition for spaces is fierce. L1 might be
more widely available, but not advertised so I need to reconnoiter
before committing to a vehicle.

For that matter, the Democratic People's Republic of Oberlin provides,
through our municipal utility, a pair of 5-6kW charging stations
downtown, only a mile from the house.

I especially thank you for the vehicle research you provided -- I will
indeed investigate the other options. We do somewhat long for the
options you folks on the west coast enjoy.

The approval process for even placing a deposit on a Tesla is taking
years, but again, that's a personal problem ;-)

Thanks very much!
Cal
> *From:* brucedp5 via EV 
> *Date:* November 29, 2016 at 1:30 PM
> *To:* ev@lists.evdl.org
> *Subject:* [EVDL] Cal's OH EV : Leaf recommendations?
>
> [ref
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Leaf-recommendations-tp4684676.html
> ]
>
> Cal sez> '42 miles each way (daily to work and back commute is 82 miles)'
>
> IMO an 82mi daily commute in a used EV like the 2013 Leaf SL has pushed
> beyond its range limit for a round trip on one charge. Even on the best
> days: warm weather, no-wind, and light traffic, it would be a challenge to
> be reliable to be on-time at work or home.
>
> No, you are going to need charging before you make it home. Even a L1
> outlet
> for 8 hours while you are working would give you just enough (~30mi). I am
> going to assume there is no EVSE at Cal's new work site. Thus he will
> depend
> on what public L3&2 or private EVSE he finds on plugshare.com .
>
>
> For those that do not know a GEM e-2 is a nEV (not-highway speed
> capable, a
> short ~30mi range, and has a wimpy L1 charger built-in ( = too slow for an
> 82+mi daily commute). So, what was an easy (~10mi) bop over to Cal's
> former
> work site each day, has changed to a 82+mi or ~2 hour daily grind to wade
> through and fight traffic.
>
> Cal, your post wording sounds like you are excited. So excited that you
> might make the mistake of buying before you have spent the time to select
> and EV that will fit your needs (it will serve you, not you trying to make
> the EV fit your needs).
>
> Others (in temperate west coast areas) have posted the a Leaf is a good EV
> and works well for them. But an EV that works well in one part of the
> world,
> may not in another part.
>
> Cal is in OH, not CA. He has to deal with may issues that are not in his
> favor to drive a highway speed production EV: not many EV
> brands/models were
> offered and supported in OH, not as much public OH EVSE, thus less OH work
> site managers will have EV knowledge on the importance and benefits of
> offering EVSE to employees, OH's weather will have a strong affect on
> Cal's
> commute (cold, snow,slush, mud, wind eats range), +more factors.
>
> If I were in Cal's shoes I would do my homework
> (Aw Bruce, that takes all the fun out of it!)
> Else, Cal would be impulse buying (never a good idea when getting an EV).
> Actually, even if Cal were buying an ice, he should do his homework
> and not
> go to a dealership to be 'sold a car' (the wrong car for his actual
> driving
> needs).
>
> In the short term, lets assume he ice'd his way 82 miles to the
> interview to
> secure the new job. So, he has other ways to get to work and back until he
> has figured out what his EV options are.
> Or if he hasn't access to another car, then rentals can be bagged using
> https://www.kayak.com/cars/Cleveland,OH-c4321/2016-11-30/2017-01-30
>
>
> BTW, the Gem nEV had an on-board L1 charger, so lets assume Cal would need
> to buy a home L2 (j1772) EVSE. That cost and the amount of time to recoup
> the range for the next day needs to be factored in.
>
> While a 3kW EVSE would work if you came home each day with plenty of
> time to
> charge, IMO a 6kW EVSE @home would be wiser for those rare days when you
> have less time to charge (stuff-happens).
>
> Along with that, I recommend that your EV have a 6kW on-board charger.
> This
> will match the above, but also match what is available at public EVSE (a
> better bang for the public EVSE use-fee buck$).
>
> As was posted, Cal's EV should also be required to have a L3 DC charging
> 

Re: [EVDL] Cal's OH EV : Leaf recommendations?

[Robert Bruninga via EV]

Not to mention that he said most of the commute is interstate.  You're only
going  to get rated mileage if you keep it slow.  Going at 70 MPH takes
TWICE the range as going at 45 MPH.  A HUGE difference for the same
distance.

Bob

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of brucedp5 via EV
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2016 1:31 PM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: [EVDL] Cal's OH EV : Leaf recommendations?



[ref
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Leaf-recommendations-tp4684676.html
]

Cal sez> '42 miles each way (daily to work and back commute is 82 miles)'

IMO an 82mi daily commute in a used EV like the 2013 Leaf SL has pushed
beyond its range limit for a round trip on one charge. Even on the best
days: warm weather, no-wind, and light traffic, it would be a challenge to
be reliable to be on-time at work or home.

No, you are going to need charging before you make it home. Even a L1 outlet
for 8 hours while you are working would give you just enough (~30mi). I am
going to assume there is no EVSE at Cal's new work site. Thus he will depend
on what public L3&2 or private EVSE he finds on plugshare.com .


For those that do not know a GEM e-2 is a nEV (not-highway speed capable, a
short ~30mi range, and has a wimpy L1 charger built-in ( = too slow for an
82+mi daily commute). So, what was an easy (~10mi) bop over to Cal's
82+former
work site each day, has changed to a 82+mi or ~2 hour daily grind to wade
through and fight traffic.

Cal, your post wording sounds like you are excited. So excited that you
might make the mistake of buying before you have spent the time to select
and EV that will fit your needs (it will serve you, not you trying to make
the EV fit your needs).

Others (in temperate west coast areas) have posted the a Leaf is a good EV
and works well for them. But an EV that works well in one part of the world,
may not in another part.

Cal is in OH, not CA. He has to deal with may issues that are not in his
favor to drive a highway speed production EV: not many EV brands/models were
offered and supported in OH, not as much public OH EVSE, thus less OH work
site managers will have EV knowledge on the importance and benefits of
offering EVSE to employees, OH's weather will have a strong affect on Cal's
commute (cold, snow,slush, mud, wind eats range), +more factors.

If I were in Cal's shoes I would do my homework (Aw Bruce, that takes all
the fun out of it!) Else, Cal would be impulse buying (never a good idea
when getting an EV).
Actually, even if Cal were buying an ice, he should do his homework and not
go to a dealership to be 'sold a car' (the wrong car for his actual driving
needs).

In the short term, lets assume he ice'd his way 82 miles to the interview to
secure the new job. So, he has other ways to get to work and back until he
has figured out what his EV options are.
Or if he hasn't access to another car, then rentals can be bagged using
https://www.kayak.com/cars/Cleveland,OH-c4321/2016-11-30/2017-01-30


BTW, the Gem nEV had an on-board L1 charger, so lets assume Cal would need
to buy a home L2 (j1772) EVSE. That cost and the amount of time to recoup
the range for the next day needs to be factored in.

While a 3kW EVSE would work if you came home each day with plenty of time to
charge, IMO a 6kW EVSE @home would be wiser for those rare days when you
have less time to charge (stuff-happens).

Along with that, I recommend that your EV have a 6kW on-board charger. This
will match the above, but also match what is available at public EVSE (a
better bang for the public EVSE use-fee buck$).

As was posted, Cal's EV should also be required to have a L3 DC charging
ability. If Cal's EV was only bopping around in the range of his Gem nEV, he
would not need the above. But now, he has to be on time at work reliably, so
he will need the L3 & L2-6kW charging ability to accomplish that.
IMO, limiting his EV to L2-3kW, and or no L3 is not going to achieve his EV
goals.


It would be best to have L2 EVSE at work, but if not, Cal should use
plugshare.com to know where the available EVSE is at. He should plan on a
daily stop off during lunch or on the way home, to use a L3 EVSE to top off
each day. Or find on plugshare.com a home owner near his work that would let
him charge each day (you need to be able to login to plugshare to get those
private details: its free and easy to do).


Since Cal mentioned a used Leaf, I will assume his wallet is not as full nor
his pockets as deep as Donald's, so a Tesla, or waiting until the 200mi, or
even the 30kWh (100+mi) EVs come out will not be within Cal's budget. Lets
assume Cal's budget will consider an EV that's $10k or less.


Lets talk weather ... take a look at
http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/oberlin-oh/44074/month/340017?monyr=1/01/2015
 while the planet 'is' heating up, where Cal lives January is his coldest
month running at 35° daytime/21°F nighttime.

If Cal has to leave the EV outside at