Thanks, Bruce, for the truly exhaustive analysis. You guessed rather accurately from the meagre information I gave you.
Leaves (Leafs?) of the 2013-2014 vintage, SL or SV (I dislike leather seats, but that's a personal problem) seem to be in the $13-15,000 range, which is attractive. But yes, the weather is a concern. There are non-freeway routes available, and a much shorter drive to the light rail station is also an option. I am eager, but not in such a hurry that I will stint on the homework. Part of that homework is to poll you all, especially those with hands-on experience with the Leaf, for advice. I will be working at Case Western Reserve University, and there are several EVSE's available on campus, but I'm also warned that parking is marginally adequate and competition for spaces is fierce. L1 might be more widely available, but not advertised so I need to reconnoiter before committing to a vehicle. For that matter, the Democratic People's Republic of Oberlin provides, through our municipal utility, a pair of 5-6kW charging stations downtown, only a mile from the house. I especially thank you for the vehicle research you provided -- I will indeed investigate the other options. We do somewhat long for the options you folks on the west coast enjoy. The approval process for even placing a deposit on a Tesla is taking years, but again, that's a personal problem ;-) Thanks very much! Cal > *From:* brucedp5 via EV <[email protected]> > *Date:* November 29, 2016 at 1:30 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* [EVDL] Cal's OH EV : Leaf recommendations? > > [ref > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Leaf-recommendations-tp4684676.html > ] > > Cal sez> '42 miles each way (daily to work and back commute is 82 miles)' > > IMO an 82mi daily commute in a used EV like the 2013 Leaf SL has pushed > beyond its range limit for a round trip on one charge. Even on the best > days: warm weather, no-wind, and light traffic, it would be a challenge to > be reliable to be on-time at work or home. > > No, you are going to need charging before you make it home. Even a L1 > outlet > for 8 hours while you are working would give you just enough (~30mi). I am > going to assume there is no EVSE at Cal's new work site. Thus he will > depend > on what public L3&2 or private EVSE he finds on plugshare.com . > > > For those that do not know a GEM e-2 is a nEV (not-highway speed > capable, a > short ~30mi range, and has a wimpy L1 charger built-in ( = too slow for an > 82+mi daily commute). So, what was an easy (~10mi) bop over to Cal's > former > work site each day, has changed to a 82+mi or ~2 hour daily grind to wade > through and fight traffic. > > Cal, your post wording sounds like you are excited. So excited that you > might make the mistake of buying before you have spent the time to select > and EV that will fit your needs (it will serve you, not you trying to make > the EV fit your needs). > > Others (in temperate west coast areas) have posted the a Leaf is a good EV > and works well for them. But an EV that works well in one part of the > world, > may not in another part. > > Cal is in OH, not CA. He has to deal with may issues that are not in his > favor to drive a highway speed production EV: not many EV > brands/models were > offered and supported in OH, not as much public OH EVSE, thus less OH work > site managers will have EV knowledge on the importance and benefits of > offering EVSE to employees, OH's weather will have a strong affect on > Cal's > commute (cold, snow,slush, mud, wind eats range), +more factors. > > If I were in Cal's shoes I would do my homework > (Aw Bruce, that takes all the fun out of it!) > Else, Cal would be impulse buying (never a good idea when getting an EV). > Actually, even if Cal were buying an ice, he should do his homework > and not > go to a dealership to be 'sold a car' (the wrong car for his actual > driving > needs). > > In the short term, lets assume he ice'd his way 82 miles to the > interview to > secure the new job. So, he has other ways to get to work and back until he > has figured out what his EV options are. > Or if he hasn't access to another car, then rentals can be bagged using > https://www.kayak.com/cars/Cleveland,OH-c4321/2016-11-30/2017-01-30 > > > BTW, the Gem nEV had an on-board L1 charger, so lets assume Cal would need > to buy a home L2 (j1772) EVSE. That cost and the amount of time to recoup > the range for the next day needs to be factored in. > > While a 3kW EVSE would work if you came home each day with plenty of > time to > charge, IMO a 6kW EVSE @home would be wiser for those rare days when you > have less time to charge (stuff-happens). > > Along with that, I recommend that your EV have a 6kW on-board charger. > This > will match the above, but also match what is available at public EVSE (a > better bang for the public EVSE use-fee buck$). > > As was posted, Cal's EV should also be required to have a L3 DC charging > ability. If Cal's EV was only bopping around in the range of his Gem > nEV, he > would not need the above. But now, he has to be on time at work > reliably, so > he will need the L3 & L2-6kW charging ability to accomplish that. > IMO, limiting his EV to L2-3kW, and or no L3 is not going to achieve > his EV > goals. > > > It would be best to have L2 EVSE at work, but if not, Cal should use > plugshare.com to know where the available EVSE is at. He should plan on a > daily stop off during lunch or on the way home, to use a L3 EVSE to > top off > each day. Or find on plugshare.com a home owner near his work that > would let > him charge each day (you need to be able to login to plugshare to get > those > private details: its free and easy to do). > > > Since Cal mentioned a used Leaf, I will assume his wallet is not as > full nor > his pockets as deep as Donald's, so a Tesla, or waiting until the > 200mi, or > even the 30kWh (100+mi) EVs come out will not be within Cal's budget. Lets > assume Cal's budget will consider an EV that's $10k or less. > > > Lets talk weather ... take a look at > http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/oberlin-oh/44074/month/340017?monyr=1/01/2015 > while the planet 'is' heating up, where Cal lives January is his coldest > month running at 35° daytime/21°F nighttime. > > If Cal has to leave the EV outside at night, figure on starting out at > 21°F. > Even if Cal has a garage where he can keep the EV heated, he'll have a > daytime temp of 35° or lower when he goes home in the evening (after > the EV > has sat out in the company's parking lot all day). > > Cal lives in OH so he knows its weather (I am not in OH). But he is a 2013 > report on what is called lake-effect snow, and Cal lives near Lake Erie > http://sabolscience.blogspot.in/2013/01/the-different-flavors-of-lake-erie-lake.html > Heavy lake effect snow and wind may be more rare, but once a year is > all it > takes to disrupt Cal's commute. > > > From: > http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1082048_nissan-leaf-range-how-much-does-it-lose-in-the-cold > Nissan Leaf Range: How Much Does It Lose In The Cold? > Feb 1, 2013 > > look at > http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/fleetcarmas-analysis-of-nissan-leaf-driving-range-at-different-temperatures_100417498_l.jpg > > the graph shows a 65 mile max range when it is warm weather and a 50 mile > range @ 25F. That is a 25% difference in range between warm and cold > weather > months. > *You have to plan for the worst (the coldest) to ensure you have enough > range. > > Plus factor in losing bars (range) during ownership, see > http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=4295 > > http://livingleaf.info/2015/05/lets-talk-about-battery-degradation/ > > http://www.treehugger.com/cars/life-used-nissan-leaf-first-month.html > > https://www.reddit.com/r/leaf/comments/2uro4x/lost_my_3rd_bar_today/ > > so, if Cal was three years into ownership, how much range could he > lose (be > down to) before the multiple charging method got to be no-good for his > needs? > > > The Leaf is a good EV, but at its best in the sunshine U.S. states (it > works > best if not too hot, nor too cold). Driving a Leaf in OH's cold can be > done, > and it is available in Cal's area > https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=&formSourceTag=112&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=t49105&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=&zip=44074&distance=200&searchChanged=true&trimNames=SV&trimNames=SL&showNegotiable=false&modelChanged=false&filtersModified=true&sortType=PRICE&sortDirection=ASC > > lets have Cal look at other EV choices: > > While the VW e-golf (82mi warm) has OH cold weather range issues like the > Leaf > http://www.myvwegolf.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=755 > The good news is the e-golf is available in his area > https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=&formSourceTag=112&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2284&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=&zip=44074&distance=200&searchChanged=true&showNegotiable=false&modelChanged=true&filtersModified=true&sortType=PRICE&sortDirection=ASC > > BMW i3 (114mi, w/ or w/o a rex are near the same used price, an i3+rex has > less e-range) > https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=&formSourceTag=112&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2263&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=&zip=44074&distance=500&searchChanged=true&showNegotiable=false&modelChanged=false&filtersModified=true&sortType=PRICE&sortDirection=ASC > > > - EVs not supported, nor available in Cal's area - > > The Spark EV (82mi) > https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=&formSourceTag=112&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2205&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=&zip=44074&distance=200&searchChanged=true&showNegotiable=false&maxPrice=20000&modelChanged=false&filtersModified=true&sortType=PRICE&sortDirection=ASC > > http://insideevs.com/full-details-released-on-2015-kia-soul-evs-advanced-battery/ > The Kia Soul EV (90mi) > https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=&formSourceTag=112&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2290&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=&zip=44074&distance=200&searchChanged=true&showNegotiable=false&modelChanged=false&filtersModified=true&sortType=PRICE&sortDirection=ASC > > > And lastly there is an alternate way of thinking about Cal's new daily > commute: > drive to the train station (30mi) and let them do the driving: saves > on wear > and tear on the EV and on Cal (likely they would have on-board wifi so Cal > could get so things done what riding, etc.), it would make his EV commute > shorter so he could drive to and from the train station on one charge. > https://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=am/am2Station/Station_Page&code=ELY > > http://locations.greyhound.com/bus-stations/us/ohio/elyria/bus-station-250459 > > > Bottom line: IMO, if Cal can afford a few more $, a BMW i3 EV (his > choice w/ > or w/o a rex, used they are the same price) would be the best choice his > needs. > Good Luck, and let us know what you decide, and your experiences. > > > > > > > For EVLN EV-newswire posts use: > http://evdl.org/evln/ > > > {brucedp.0catch.com} > > -- > View this message in context: > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Leaf-recommendations-tp4684676p4684688.html > Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > *From:* Cal Frye via EV <[email protected]> > *Date:* November 28, 2016 at 10:05 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* [EVDL] Leaf recommendations? > Hi, folks, > > I just got a new job, which is going to have me making changes. > So far, my commute has been adequately met by my GEM e2. > > Now I'm looking at 42 miles one way, mainly freeway with a bit of stop > and go at the end. > I'm thinking that, while this might be pushing it a bit, a 2013+ Nissan > Leaf SL might just make it, and I'm liking the pricing I see on used > ones with under 30k miles. > > Am I being foolish? What else should I be careful to observe should I > try to buy one? > > Thanks! > > Best regards, > -- Cal Frye, > www.calfrye.com <http://www.touchstonehumanists.org/> > > "As business replaces civil society, advertising is taking over the > cultural functions that used to be filled by the left. . . . We used to > have movements for change; now we have products." -- Thomas Frank. > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20161128/293753c8/attachment.html> > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20161129/6b32867e/attachment.htm> _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
