Not to mention that he said most of the commute is interstate. You're only going to get rated mileage if you keep it slow. Going at 70 MPH takes TWICE the range as going at 45 MPH. A HUGE difference for the same distance.
Bob -----Original Message----- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of brucedp5 via EV Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2016 1:31 PM To: ev@lists.evdl.org Subject: [EVDL] Cal's OH EV : Leaf recommendations? [ref http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Leaf-recommendations-tp4684676.html ] Cal sez> '42 miles each way (daily to work and back commute is 82 miles)' IMO an 82mi daily commute in a used EV like the 2013 Leaf SL has pushed beyond its range limit for a round trip on one charge. Even on the best days: warm weather, no-wind, and light traffic, it would be a challenge to be reliable to be on-time at work or home. No, you are going to need charging before you make it home. Even a L1 outlet for 8 hours while you are working would give you just enough (~30mi). I am going to assume there is no EVSE at Cal's new work site. Thus he will depend on what public L3&2 or private EVSE he finds on plugshare.com . For those that do not know a GEM e-2 is a nEV (not-highway speed capable, a short ~30mi range, and has a wimpy L1 charger built-in ( = too slow for an 82+mi daily commute). So, what was an easy (~10mi) bop over to Cal's 82+former work site each day, has changed to a 82+mi or ~2 hour daily grind to wade through and fight traffic. Cal, your post wording sounds like you are excited. So excited that you might make the mistake of buying before you have spent the time to select and EV that will fit your needs (it will serve you, not you trying to make the EV fit your needs). Others (in temperate west coast areas) have posted the a Leaf is a good EV and works well for them. But an EV that works well in one part of the world, may not in another part. Cal is in OH, not CA. He has to deal with may issues that are not in his favor to drive a highway speed production EV: not many EV brands/models were offered and supported in OH, not as much public OH EVSE, thus less OH work site managers will have EV knowledge on the importance and benefits of offering EVSE to employees, OH's weather will have a strong affect on Cal's commute (cold, snow,slush, mud, wind eats range), +more factors. If I were in Cal's shoes I would do my homework (Aw Bruce, that takes all the fun out of it!) Else, Cal would be impulse buying (never a good idea when getting an EV). Actually, even if Cal were buying an ice, he should do his homework and not go to a dealership to be 'sold a car' (the wrong car for his actual driving needs). In the short term, lets assume he ice'd his way 82 miles to the interview to secure the new job. So, he has other ways to get to work and back until he has figured out what his EV options are. Or if he hasn't access to another car, then rentals can be bagged using https://www.kayak.com/cars/Cleveland,OH-c4321/2016-11-30/2017-01-30 BTW, the Gem nEV had an on-board L1 charger, so lets assume Cal would need to buy a home L2 (j1772) EVSE. That cost and the amount of time to recoup the range for the next day needs to be factored in. While a 3kW EVSE would work if you came home each day with plenty of time to charge, IMO a 6kW EVSE @home would be wiser for those rare days when you have less time to charge (stuff-happens). Along with that, I recommend that your EV have a 6kW on-board charger. This will match the above, but also match what is available at public EVSE (a better bang for the public EVSE use-fee buck$). As was posted, Cal's EV should also be required to have a L3 DC charging ability. If Cal's EV was only bopping around in the range of his Gem nEV, he would not need the above. But now, he has to be on time at work reliably, so he will need the L3 & L2-6kW charging ability to accomplish that. IMO, limiting his EV to L2-3kW, and or no L3 is not going to achieve his EV goals. It would be best to have L2 EVSE at work, but if not, Cal should use plugshare.com to know where the available EVSE is at. He should plan on a daily stop off during lunch or on the way home, to use a L3 EVSE to top off each day. Or find on plugshare.com a home owner near his work that would let him charge each day (you need to be able to login to plugshare to get those private details: its free and easy to do). Since Cal mentioned a used Leaf, I will assume his wallet is not as full nor his pockets as deep as Donald's, so a Tesla, or waiting until the 200mi, or even the 30kWh (100+mi) EVs come out will not be within Cal's budget. Lets assume Cal's budget will consider an EV that's $10k or less. Lets talk weather ... take a look at http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/oberlin-oh/44074/month/340017?monyr=1/01/2015 while the planet 'is' heating up, where Cal lives January is his coldest month running at 35° daytime/21°F nighttime. If Cal has to leave the EV outside at night, figure on starting out at 21°F. Even if Cal has a garage where he can keep the EV heated, he'll have a daytime temp of 35° or lower when he goes home in the evening (after the EV has sat out in the company's parking lot all day). Cal lives in OH so he knows its weather (I am not in OH). But he is a 2013 report on what is called lake-effect snow, and Cal lives near Lake Erie http://sabolscience.blogspot.in/2013/01/the-different-flavors-of-lake-erie-lake.html Heavy lake effect snow and wind may be more rare, but once a year is all it takes to disrupt Cal's commute. From: http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1082048_nissan-leaf-range-how-much-does-it-lose-in-the-cold Nissan Leaf Range: How Much Does It Lose In The Cold? Feb 1, 2013 look at http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/fleetcarmas-analysis-of-nissan-leaf-driving-range-at-different-temperatures_100417498_l.jpg the graph shows a 65 mile max range when it is warm weather and a 50 mile range @ 25F. That is a 25% difference in range between warm and cold weather months. *You have to plan for the worst (the coldest) to ensure you have enough range. Plus factor in losing bars (range) during ownership, see http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=4295 http://livingleaf.info/2015/05/lets-talk-about-battery-degradation/ http://www.treehugger.com/cars/life-used-nissan-leaf-first-month.html https://www.reddit.com/r/leaf/comments/2uro4x/lost_my_3rd_bar_today/ so, if Cal was three years into ownership, how much range could he lose (be down to) before the multiple charging method got to be no-good for his needs? The Leaf is a good EV, but at its best in the sunshine U.S. states (it works best if not too hot, nor too cold). Driving a Leaf in OH's cold can be done, and it is available in Cal's area https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=&formSourceTag=112&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=t49105&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=&zip=44074&distance=200&searchChanged=true&trimNames=SV&trimNames=SL&showNegotiable=false&modelChanged=false&filtersModified=true&sortType=PRICE&sortDirection=ASC lets have Cal look at other EV choices: While the VW e-golf (82mi warm) has OH cold weather range issues like the Leaf http://www.myvwegolf.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=755 The good news is the e-golf is available in his area https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=&formSourceTag=112&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2284&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=&zip=44074&distance=200&searchChanged=true&showNegotiable=false&modelChanged=true&filtersModified=true&sortType=PRICE&sortDirection=ASC BMW i3 (114mi, w/ or w/o a rex are near the same used price, an i3+rex has less e-range) https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=&formSourceTag=112&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2263&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=&zip=44074&distance=500&searchChanged=true&showNegotiable=false&modelChanged=false&filtersModified=true&sortType=PRICE&sortDirection=ASC - EVs not supported, nor available in Cal's area - The Spark EV (82mi) https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=&formSourceTag=112&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2205&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=&zip=44074&distance=200&searchChanged=true&showNegotiable=false&maxPrice=20000&modelChanged=false&filtersModified=true&sortType=PRICE&sortDirection=ASC http://insideevs.com/full-details-released-on-2015-kia-soul-evs-advanced-battery/ The Kia Soul EV (90mi) https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=&formSourceTag=112&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2290&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=&zip=44074&distance=200&searchChanged=true&showNegotiable=false&modelChanged=false&filtersModified=true&sortType=PRICE&sortDirection=ASC And lastly there is an alternate way of thinking about Cal's new daily commute: drive to the train station (30mi) and let them do the driving: saves on wear and tear on the EV and on Cal (likely they would have on-board wifi so Cal could get so things done what riding, etc.), it would make his EV commute shorter so he could drive to and from the train station on one charge. https://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=am/am2Station/Station_Page&code=ELY http://locations.greyhound.com/bus-stations/us/ohio/elyria/bus-station-250459 Bottom line: IMO, if Cal can afford a few more $, a BMW i3 EV (his choice w/ or w/o a rex, used they are the same price) would be the best choice his needs. Good Luck, and let us know what you decide, and your experiences. For EVLN EV-newswire posts use: http://evdl.org/evln/ {brucedp.0catch.com} -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Leaf-recommendations-tp4684676p4684688.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)