Not to mention that he said most of the commute is interstate.  You're only
going  to get rated mileage if you keep it slow.  Going at 70 MPH takes
TWICE the range as going at 45 MPH.  A HUGE difference for the same
distance.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of brucedp5 via EV
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2016 1:31 PM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: [EVDL] Cal's OH EV : Leaf recommendations?



[ref
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Leaf-recommendations-tp4684676.html
]

Cal sez> '42 miles each way (daily to work and back commute is 82 miles)'

IMO an 82mi daily commute in a used EV like the 2013 Leaf SL has pushed
beyond its range limit for a round trip on one charge. Even on the best
days: warm weather, no-wind, and light traffic, it would be a challenge to
be reliable to be on-time at work or home.

No, you are going to need charging before you make it home. Even a L1 outlet
for 8 hours while you are working would give you just enough (~30mi). I am
going to assume there is no EVSE at Cal's new work site. Thus he will depend
on what public L3&2 or private EVSE he finds on plugshare.com .


For those that do not know a GEM e-2 is a nEV (not-highway speed capable, a
short ~30mi range, and has a wimpy L1 charger built-in ( = too slow for an
82+mi daily commute). So, what was an easy (~10mi) bop over to Cal's
82+former
work site each day, has changed to a 82+mi or ~2 hour daily grind to wade
through and fight traffic.

Cal, your post wording sounds like you are excited. So excited that you
might make the mistake of buying before you have spent the time to select
and EV that will fit your needs (it will serve you, not you trying to make
the EV fit your needs).

Others (in temperate west coast areas) have posted the a Leaf is a good EV
and works well for them. But an EV that works well in one part of the world,
may not in another part.

Cal is in OH, not CA. He has to deal with may issues that are not in his
favor to drive a highway speed production EV: not many EV brands/models were
offered and supported in OH, not as much public OH EVSE, thus less OH work
site managers will have EV knowledge on the importance and benefits of
offering EVSE to employees, OH's weather will have a strong affect on Cal's
commute (cold, snow,slush, mud, wind eats range), +more factors.

If I were in Cal's shoes I would do my homework (Aw Bruce, that takes all
the fun out of it!) Else, Cal would be impulse buying (never a good idea
when getting an EV).
Actually, even if Cal were buying an ice, he should do his homework and not
go to a dealership to be 'sold a car' (the wrong car for his actual driving
needs).

In the short term, lets assume he ice'd his way 82 miles to the interview to
secure the new job. So, he has other ways to get to work and back until he
has figured out what his EV options are.
Or if he hasn't access to another car, then rentals can be bagged using
https://www.kayak.com/cars/Cleveland,OH-c4321/2016-11-30/2017-01-30


BTW, the Gem nEV had an on-board L1 charger, so lets assume Cal would need
to buy a home L2 (j1772) EVSE. That cost and the amount of time to recoup
the range for the next day needs to be factored in.

While a 3kW EVSE would work if you came home each day with plenty of time to
charge, IMO a 6kW EVSE @home would be wiser for those rare days when you
have less time to charge (stuff-happens).

Along with that, I recommend that your EV have a 6kW on-board charger. This
will match the above, but also match what is available at public EVSE (a
better bang for the public EVSE use-fee buck$).

As was posted, Cal's EV should also be required to have a L3 DC charging
ability. If Cal's EV was only bopping around in the range of his Gem nEV, he
would not need the above. But now, he has to be on time at work reliably, so
he will need the L3 & L2-6kW charging ability to accomplish that.
IMO, limiting his EV to L2-3kW, and or no L3 is not going to achieve his EV
goals.


It would be best to have L2 EVSE at work, but if not, Cal should use
plugshare.com to know where the available EVSE is at. He should plan on a
daily stop off during lunch or on the way home, to use a L3 EVSE to top off
each day. Or find on plugshare.com a home owner near his work that would let
him charge each day (you need to be able to login to plugshare to get those
private details: its free and easy to do).


Since Cal mentioned a used Leaf, I will assume his wallet is not as full nor
his pockets as deep as Donald's, so a Tesla, or waiting until the 200mi, or
even the 30kWh (100+mi) EVs come out will not be within Cal's budget. Lets
assume Cal's budget will consider an EV that's $10k or less.


Lets talk weather ... take a look at
http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/oberlin-oh/44074/month/340017?monyr=1/01/2015
 while the planet 'is' heating up, where Cal lives January is his coldest
month running at 35° daytime/21°F nighttime.

If Cal has to leave the EV outside at night, figure on starting out at 21°F.
Even if Cal has a garage where he can keep the EV heated, he'll have a
daytime temp of 35° or lower when he goes home in the evening (after the EV
has sat out in the company's parking lot all day).

Cal lives in OH so he knows its weather (I am not in OH). But he is a 2013
report on what is called lake-effect snow, and Cal lives near Lake Erie
http://sabolscience.blogspot.in/2013/01/the-different-flavors-of-lake-erie-lake.html
 Heavy lake effect snow and wind may be more rare, but once a year is all it
takes to disrupt Cal's commute.


From:
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1082048_nissan-leaf-range-how-much-does-it-lose-in-the-cold
Nissan Leaf Range: How Much Does It Lose In The Cold?
Feb 1, 2013

 look at
http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/fleetcarmas-analysis-of-nissan-leaf-driving-range-at-different-temperatures_100417498_l.jpg

 the graph shows a 65 mile max range when it is warm weather and a 50 mile
range @ 25F. That is a 25% difference in range between warm and cold weather
months.
*You have to plan for the worst (the coldest) to ensure you have enough
range.

Plus factor in losing bars (range) during ownership, see
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=4295

http://livingleaf.info/2015/05/lets-talk-about-battery-degradation/

http://www.treehugger.com/cars/life-used-nissan-leaf-first-month.html

https://www.reddit.com/r/leaf/comments/2uro4x/lost_my_3rd_bar_today/

 so, if Cal was three years into ownership, how much range could he lose (be
down to) before the multiple charging method got to be no-good for his
needs?


The Leaf is a good EV, but at its best in the sunshine U.S. states (it works
best if not too hot, nor too cold). Driving a Leaf in OH's cold can be done,
and it is available in Cal's area
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=&formSourceTag=112&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=t49105&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=&zip=44074&distance=200&searchChanged=true&trimNames=SV&trimNames=SL&showNegotiable=false&modelChanged=false&filtersModified=true&sortType=PRICE&sortDirection=ASC

 lets have Cal look at other EV choices:

While the VW e-golf (82mi warm) has OH cold weather range issues like the
Leaf
http://www.myvwegolf.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=755
 The good news is the e-golf is available in his area
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=&formSourceTag=112&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2284&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=&zip=44074&distance=200&searchChanged=true&showNegotiable=false&modelChanged=true&filtersModified=true&sortType=PRICE&sortDirection=ASC

BMW i3 (114mi, w/ or w/o a rex are near the same used price, an i3+rex has
less e-range)
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=&formSourceTag=112&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2263&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=&zip=44074&distance=500&searchChanged=true&showNegotiable=false&modelChanged=false&filtersModified=true&sortType=PRICE&sortDirection=ASC


- EVs not supported, nor available in Cal's area  -

The Spark EV (82mi)
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=&formSourceTag=112&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2205&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=&zip=44074&distance=200&searchChanged=true&showNegotiable=false&maxPrice=20000&modelChanged=false&filtersModified=true&sortType=PRICE&sortDirection=ASC

http://insideevs.com/full-details-released-on-2015-kia-soul-evs-advanced-battery/
The Kia Soul EV (90mi)
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=&formSourceTag=112&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2290&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=&zip=44074&distance=200&searchChanged=true&showNegotiable=false&modelChanged=false&filtersModified=true&sortType=PRICE&sortDirection=ASC


And lastly there is an alternate way of thinking about Cal's new daily
commute:
drive to the train station (30mi) and let them do the driving: saves on wear
and tear on the EV and on Cal (likely they would have on-board wifi so Cal
could get so things done what riding, etc.), it would make his EV commute
shorter so he could drive to and from the train station on one charge.
https://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=am/am2Station/Station_Page&code=ELY

http://locations.greyhound.com/bus-stations/us/ohio/elyria/bus-station-250459


Bottom line: IMO, if Cal can afford a few more $, a BMW i3 EV (his choice w/
or w/o a rex, used they are the same price) would be the best choice his
needs.
Good Luck, and let us know what you decide, and your experiences.






For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
http://evdl.org/evln/


{brucedp.0catch.com}

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