Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Menacing Copper-Theives A 'Cut Steal'EVSEScourge
tomw via EV wrote: EVSE availability varies greatly with area of the country. That's for sure. Where we live, there's an EVSE at the Nissan dealer in St. Cloud MN (about 10 miles away). Beyond that, the next one is in Brooklyn Park MN, (65 miles away). When we test drove a Nissan Leaf, 2/3 of the charging stations they showed aren't actually present or available to the general public. None beyond the two I listed are within range of the Leaf. Pretty slim pickings! -- If you would not be forgotten When your body's dead and rotten Then write of great deeds worth the reading Or do these great deeds, worth repeating. -- Ben Franklin, from Poor Richard's Almanac -- Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Menacing Copper-Theives A 'Cut Steal'EVSEScourge
EVSE availability varies greatly with area of the country. I use public EVSE's regularly and in the last few years have only had one time when one was not available, and it was marked as unavailable due to construction on the Chargepoint website. I replaced my PFC20 this year with an EMW 10kW charger and did more trips further from home as a result. I can add about 30 - 35 miles per hour charge at a 240V EVSE (my car only uses about 1/5 kWh/mile on average). Still not as convenient as an ice powered car of course, but enables me to drive a bit over 100 miles round trip stopping for a 1 hour charge. I can charge at up to 50 miles per hour from a NEMA 14-50 outlet at home or an RV park. That put quite a few more hiking and biking areas within my range. I usually leave the car parked at an EVSE while I bike and leave a note that it is ok to unplug after such and such time, typically less than 2 hours from when I plug in. I also charge on the way to my destination while I walk to a cafe and have breakfast, or charge on my way home while I walk to a restaurant and have dinner. I do prefer sites that have 2 to 4 stations in case one is in use, and that will have to increase as the number of ev's does - already an issue in some areas in CA it seems. Charging at home at night is more than sufficient for around town use. If that is my only use I only need to charge every second to fourth day typically (75 mile range on full charge). I agree most people think they drive much further than they do. Many times people react with surprise when I tell them the car has about 75 mile range, and I can easily drive to such and such town and back without stopping to charge. The town is a bit under 30 miles away. -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-EVLN-Menacing-Copper-Theives-A-Cut-Steal-EVSEScourge-tp4671354p4671418.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Menacing Copper-Theives A 'Cut Steal'EVSEScourge
Has this happened to anyone? Has anyone seen a cut off cable? I had a storage shed with rolls of #6 wire and about ten new J1772 cables that was broken into. They took the #6 wire and left the cables. The EV cables are too difficult to strip for not much copper, look at the present cable construction. There are plenty of other issues: what if the EVSE was out of service or what if the power was out? I don't believe there is any guarantee a charge will be available when you need one any place but at home. David Kerzel Modular EV Power LLC ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Menacing Copper-Theives A 'Cut Steal'EVSEScourge
On Thu, 4 Sep 2014, David Kerzel via EV wrote: There are plenty of other issues: what if the EVSE was out of service or what if the power was out? I don't believe there is any guarantee a charge will be available when you need one any place but at home. Exactly why I only use my EV for round trips within range of my home. All the emphasis on public charging is a red herring in my opinion. I think it convinces more people that EV's aren't yet appropriate than it convinces people to buy an EV. I have noticed that most people think they drive much further than they do. I drive my car about 1000 miles a month and never use opportunity charging. I talk to people who also drive about 1000 miles per month taking the same number of trips as I take and think they would need to spend hours waiting for their car to charge everywhere they go. I admit to spending hours waiting for my car to charge (it takes about 5.5 hours to charge from the very low battery warning to 100%), but I sleep during this time. I think we could do more to increase the popularity of EVs by showing people just how seldom they would need to use their second car. Out here in Silicon Valley, I have noticed that many people have purchased electric cars for access to the carpool lane. It seems as though all of these people have discovered that they use the EV for all their weekend errands as well as their daily commute. The other family car gets parked on weekends. Ed ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Menacing Copper-Theives A 'Cut Steal'EVSEScourge
Note that using steel cable and even getting somewhat close to the same resistance would make the cable several times heavier and stiffer, so much more difficult to handle. (using steel cable) That is why I suggest the steel wire be used only for the signal wires which only have milliamperes of current so that is not a problem. The power conductors made of stranded aluminum with copper coating is actually lighter than pure copper, and being stranded, it is as flexible as the insulating sheath covering all the wires as a cable. The several extra strands of steel cable are to impede cutting the cables to make the thief take longer, perhaps a sign advising the EVSE cable is the internally armored type and contains no pure copper wire suitable for salvage. (Applying the same concept as advertising to inhibit burglary used by 'Alarm companies with their 'yard signs' and 'window stickers' stating the home or business are protected by alarms.) On 9/1/14, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On Sep 1, 2014, at 12:53 PM, Cor van de Water via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Note that using steel cable and even getting somewhat close to the same resistance would make the cable several times heavier and stiffer, so much more difficult to handle. First, this isn't at all a problem limited to EV charging. Anybody know what's done in other situations to stop copper theft? Next, what about alloys that contaminate the copper or reduce its content in ways that make it undesirable? Or, steel-clad copper that's presumably resistant to cutting? And, of course, much of this is because of the value in scrap copper combined with the anonymity of recycling operations. Some sort of regulation might be called for, but I don't know how to pull that off. A part of me likes the idea of energizing the wires, but, fortunately, I'm old enough to keep my ten-year-old inner child out of the decision-making process? b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140901/815dbf5f/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- Dennis Lee Miles (*evprofes...@evprofessor.com evprofes...@evprofessor.com)* * Founder:**EV Tech. Institute Inc.* *Phone #* *(863) 289-0690 (12 noon to 12 midnight Eastern US Time)* *Educating yourself, does not mean you were **stupid; it means, you are intelligent enough, **to know, that there is plenty left to learn!* * You Tube Video link: http://youtu.be/T-FVjMRVLss http://youtu.be/T-FVjMRVLss * ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Menacing Copper-Theives A 'Cut Steal'EVSEScourge
And, of course, much of this is because of the value in scrap copper combined with the anonymity of recycling operations. Some sort of regulation might be called for, but I don't know how to pull that off. I recently made trip yo a recycling yard where I was photographed, the transaction video recorded, and my drivers license photographed. They can match me to every item I brought in that day. This helps prevent large scale ripoffs of construction material and disassembling old homes. However, a cable is pretty anonymous and any sort of enforcement is going to require a solid (no reasonable doubt) connection to the actual theft. Which is how it should be. I don't see further regulation making anything but a larger mess than I would like to see. I also don't see this current level of regulation helping at all. I think Cu filled Al wire make a lot of sense. Having seen the effects of weather on connections to aluminum wire I wonder how one makes a reliable connection to this sort of wire for high current applications? Aluminum also hates to be bent and rebent, making work hardening and fracture a realistic failure mode. What strategies prevent this? On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 4:05 PM, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On Sep 1, 2014, at 12:53 PM, Cor van de Water via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: SNIP And, of course, much of this is because of the value in scrap copper combined with the anonymity of recycling operations. Some sort of regulation might be called for, but I don't know how to pull that off. SNIP A Michael E. Ross (919) 550-2430 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell (919) 513-0418 Desk michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140901/fb2cedfc/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Menacing Copper-Theives A 'Cut Steal'EVSEScourge
Having seen the effects of weather on connections to aluminum wire I wonder how one makes a reliable connection to this sort of wire for high current applications? Aluminum also hates to be bent and rebent, making work hardening and fracture a realistic failure mode. What strategies prevent this? The aluminum is not loaded with copper, it is coated with copper in a process similar to 'Dip' Galvanizing with zinc on steel. The cable is a bundle of small flexible conductors thus it is flexible. Not a single rod of aluminum which would cause work hardening and fracture, a realistic failure mode. The copper makes weather corrosion of the aluminum unlikely. And when using for home wiring the copper coating improves the connection reliability. On 9/1/14, Michael Ross via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: And, of course, much of this is because of the value in scrap copper combined with the anonymity of recycling operations. Some sort of regulation might be called for, but I don't know how to pull that off. I recently made trip yo a recycling yard where I was photographed, the transaction video recorded, and my drivers license photographed. They can match me to every item I brought in that day. This helps prevent large scale ripoffs of construction material and disassembling old homes. However, a cable is pretty anonymous and any sort of enforcement is going to require a solid (no reasonable doubt) connection to the actual theft. Which is how it should be. I don't see further regulation making anything but a larger mess than I would like to see. I also don't see this current level of regulation helping at all. I think Cu filled Al wire make a lot of sense. Having seen the effects of weather on connections to aluminum wire I wonder how one makes a reliable connection to this sort of wire for high current applications? Aluminum also hates to be bent and rebent, making work hardening and fracture a realistic failure mode. What strategies prevent this? On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 4:05 PM, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On Sep 1, 2014, at 12:53 PM, Cor van de Water via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: SNIP And, of course, much of this is because of the value in scrap copper combined with the anonymity of recycling operations. Some sort of regulation might be called for, but I don't know how to pull that off. SNIP A Michael E. Ross (919) 550-2430 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell (919) 513-0418 Desk michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140901/fb2cedfc/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- Dennis Lee Miles (*evprofes...@evprofessor.com evprofes...@evprofessor.com)* * Founder:**EV Tech. Institute Inc.* *Phone #* *(863) 289-0690 (12 noon to 12 midnight Eastern US Time)* *Educating yourself, does not mean you were **stupid; it means, you are intelligent enough, **to know, that there is plenty left to learn!* * You Tube Video link: http://youtu.be/T-FVjMRVLss http://youtu.be/T-FVjMRVLss * ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
