Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

2015-04-15 5:12 GMT+02:00 meekerdb : > On 4/14/2015 9:47 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > 2015-04-14 18:40 GMT+02:00 meekerdb : > >> On 4/13/2015 11:31 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >> >> Le 14 avr. 2015 08:04, "Stathis Papaioannou" a >> écrit : >> >> > Certainly some theories of consciousne

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

2015-04-15 4:53 GMT+02:00 meekerdb : > On 4/14/2015 12:48 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > No, a miracle cannot be logically contradictory. God cannot make a >> married bachelor. >> > > Yes it can.. that's the whole point of what is a miracle and God. God is > not bound to logic, what you can't co

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

On 4/14/2015 6:22 PM, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 Stathis Papaioannou > wrote: >> Whenever somebody says X is an illusion the first question that should be asked is how would things be different if X were not an illusion; so how

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

On 4/14/2015 4:19 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 15 April 2015 at 02:47, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2015-04-14 18:40 GMT+02:00 meekerdb : On 4/13/2015 11:31 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: Le 14 avr. 2015 08:04, "Stathis Papaioannou" a écrit : Certainly some theories of consciousness might not

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

On 4/14/2015 9:47 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2015-04-14 18:40 GMT+02:00 meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>>: On 4/13/2015 11:31 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: Le 14 avr. 2015 08:04, "Stathis Papaioannou" mailto:stath...@gmail.com>> a écrit : > Certainly some theories of consciou

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

On 4/14/2015 9:39 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: There is, however, an interesting parallel to be made with Shannon's entropy, which is a measure of information content and not just a statistical effect. Once in the realm of digital physics, it becomes questionable if physical entropy and information

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

On 4/14/2015 6:56 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Tuesday, April 14, 2015, Quentin Anciaux > wrote: 2015-04-14 12:55 GMT+02:00 Stathis Papaioannou >: On 14 April 2015 at 17:48, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > 2015-04-14 9:40

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

On 4/14/2015 3:55 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 14 April 2015 at 17:48, Quentin Anciaux > wrote: > > > 2015-04-14 9:40 GMT+02:00 Stathis Papaioannou >: >> >> On 14 April 2015 at 17:05, Quentin Anciaux > wrote: >> >> >> I don't see any difference between a metaphysical theory saying >> >> c

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

On 4/14/2015 12:48 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: No, a miracle cannot be logically contradictory. God cannot make a married bachelor. Yes it can.. that's the whole point of what is a miracle and God. God is not bound to logic, what you can't conceive is your prejudice... and using miracl

Re: It's possible dark energy isn't as powerful as we thought

On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 spudboy100 via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > Yes, but the WMAP nobelists in 1997 claimed that it proved an increased > acceleration. > In 2003 Adam Riess presented observational evidence that although the universe is 13.8 billion years old for

Re: It's possible dark energy isn't as powerful as we thought

On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 LizR wrote: > I have been given the impression that the universe is "flat" - I assume > this means in the sense of having no (or at least too small to measure) > overall curvature. Hence, if there is no acceleration, whether it's open or > closed is, as it were, an open ques

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 Stathis Papaioannou wrote: >> Whenever somebody says X is an illusion the first question that should be >> asked is how would things be different if X were not an illusion; so how >> would things be different if persisting through time were not an >> illusion? > > > > If b

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

Bruno Marchal wrote: On 14 Apr 2015, at 03:26, Bruce Kellett wrote: It's stubborn, even if an illusion, eh? If you were duplicated, would you be prepared to kill your duplicate? Who would you kill? It can be shown that, indeed, "killing" someone with comp is equivalent with an amnesia. Dyin

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 15 April 2015 at 02:36, John Clark wrote: Whenever somebody says X is an illusion the first question that should be asked is how would things be different if X were not an illusion; so how would things be different if persisting through time were not an illusion?

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

On 15 April 2015 at 02:36, John Clark wrote: > On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > >> > If I commit suicide the illusion of persisting through time is >> > destroyed. > > > Whenever somebody says X is an illusion the first question that should be > asked is how would things be diff

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

On 15 April 2015 at 02:47, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > 2015-04-14 18:40 GMT+02:00 meekerdb : >> >> On 4/13/2015 11:31 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >> >> Le 14 avr. 2015 08:04, "Stathis Papaioannou" a écrit >> : >> >> > Certainly some theories of consciousness might not allow copying, but >> > t

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 Telmo Menezes wrote: > I predict that I will win 1 million dollar by tomorrow. I know my > prediction is correct because this will happen in one of the branches of > the multiverse. Do you agree with this statement? > No I do not agree because matter duplicating machines do

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 12:39 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: >> My problem with any view based on entropy is that entropy doesn't appear >> to be fundamental to physics; it is the statistically likely result when >> objects are put in a certain configuration and allowed to evolve randomly. >> > > > The

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 12:44 AM, John Clark wrote: > On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 , Telmo Menezes wrote: > > >> >I have this crazy idea to remove the supposed ambiguity: ask a specific >> Telmo if his prediction was correct or not. >> > > If Telmo were logical then that would be a good idea, a randomly

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 Quentin Anciaux wrote: > God is not bound to logic Yes I've noticed, or to say the same thing with different words, God is stupid. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from th

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > Consciousness could be linked for example by an invisible force to your > body by an unknown and unknowable and unmeasurable link > But we know for a fact that the link between matter and consciousness, including the matter in your body, is not un

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

2015-04-14 18:40 GMT+02:00 meekerdb : > On 4/13/2015 11:31 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > Le 14 avr. 2015 08:04, "Stathis Papaioannou" a > écrit : > > > Certainly some theories of consciousness might not allow copying, but > > that cannot be a logical requirement. To claim that something is >

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

On 4/13/2015 11:31 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: Le 14 avr. 2015 08:04, "Stathis Papaioannou" > a écrit : > Certainly some theories of consciousness might not allow copying, but > that cannot be a logical requirement. To claim that something is > logically impossible i

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

Hi Liz, > Ok. I have an idea about that, it is probably not original. Tell me what >> you think: >> The universe was not created. All possible states just exist. The moment >> of the big bang is one of the many possible states. What we call the past >> is a sequence of steps in the state graph th

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > If I commit suicide the illusion of persisting through time is destroyed. > Whenever somebody says X is an illusion the first question that should be asked is how would things be different if X were not an illusion; so how would things be differ

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

2015-04-14 15:56 GMT+02:00 Stathis Papaioannou : > > > On Tuesday, April 14, 2015, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > >> >> >> 2015-04-14 12:55 GMT+02:00 Stathis Papaioannou : >> >>> >>> >>> On 14 April 2015 at 17:48, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > 2015-04-14 9:40 GMT+02:00 Stathis Papaioannou :

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

On Tuesday, April 14, 2015, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > 2015-04-14 12:55 GMT+02:00 Stathis Papaioannou >: > >> >> >> On 14 April 2015 at 17:48, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> > >> > >> > 2015-04-14 9:40 GMT+02:00 Stathis Papaioannou : >> >> >> >> On 14 April 2015 at 17:05, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >

Re: Klara and Olimpia!

On 14 Apr 2015, at 00:41, LizR wrote: http://www.lostateminor.com/2015/04/10/these-18th-century-dolls-may-be-the-worlds-oldest-examples-of-the-modern-computer/ Not sure if they're really computers in the modern sense, as claimed. Any thoughts? Those are superb constructions, but most plau

Re: The MGA revisited

On 14 Apr 2015, at 04:05, meekerdb wrote: On 4/13/2015 4:35 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: LizR wrote: On 14 April 2015 at 00:42, Bruce Kellett mailto:bhkell...@optusnet.com.au>> wrote: The expansion of the wave function in the einselected basis of the measurement operator has certain

Re: Life in the Islamic State for women

John, here is a grammatical explanation of why God is referred to as He: Why Does the Quran Refer to Allah as “He”? by Nouman Ali Khan https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=626545717478174&set=vb.185523868247030&type=2&theater Samiya On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 12:05 PM, Samiya Illias wrote: > John,

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

2015-04-14 12:55 GMT+02:00 Stathis Papaioannou : > > > On 14 April 2015 at 17:48, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > > > 2015-04-14 9:40 GMT+02:00 Stathis Papaioannou : > >> > >> On 14 April 2015 at 17:05, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > >> > >> >> I don't see any difference between a metaphysical theory s

Re: It's possible dark energy isn't as powerful as we thought

Yes, but the WMAP nobelists in 1997 claimed that it proved an increased acceleration. My head is flat so based on that... -Original Message- From: LizR To: everything-list Sent: Mon, Apr 13, 2015 7:25 pm Subject: Re: It's possible dark energy isn't as powerful as we thought I have

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

On 14 April 2015 at 17:48, Quentin Anciaux > wrote: > > > 2015-04-14 9:40 GMT+02:00 Stathis Papaioannou >: >> >> On 14 April 2015 at 17:05, Quentin Anciaux > wrote: >> >> >> I don't see any difference between a metaphysical theory saying >> >> consciousness is not duplicable and one saying bananas

Re: For Bruce

> On 14 Apr 2015, at 11:24 am, LizR wrote: > > "This makes quanta into a particular case of qualia, being somehow sharable, > and making physical reality a first person plural reality" > > So what would happen if everyone died in some cataclysm, except for one > person? Then that person

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

2015-04-14 9:40 GMT+02:00 Stathis Papaioannou : > On 14 April 2015 at 17:05, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > >> I don't see any difference between a metaphysical theory saying > >> consciousness is not duplicable and one saying bananas are not > >> duplicable: it is still coherent and non-contradictor

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

On 14 April 2015 at 17:05, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> I don't see any difference between a metaphysical theory saying >> consciousness is not duplicable and one saying bananas are not >> duplicable: it is still coherent and non-contradictory to imagine >> either entity being duplicated. > > > No i

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

On 14 Apr 2015, at 00:21, Telmo Menezes wrote: Even if some protocol is used to keep both copies experiencing exactly the same stimuli, there are still two first person views. I don't think that a first person view and a personal identity are the same thing. In the math part, the 3-self

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

On 13 Apr 2015, at 14:55, Bruce Kellett wrote: Bruno Marchal wrote: On 13 Apr 2015, at 05:31, Bruce Kellett wrote: The philosophical literature is full of extended discussions on this, and it is widely understood that ideas such as brain transplants and duplicating machines play merry havo

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

On 14 Apr 2015, at 03:26, Bruce Kellett wrote: Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 14 April 2015 at 09:52, Bruce Kellett wrote: Stathis Papaioannou wrote: My body disintegrates yet I feel that I persist. I say this means personal identity is an illusion; you can disagree about use of the word

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

On 13 Apr 2015, at 22:16, meekerdb wrote: On 4/13/2015 7:39 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: Comp does not specify a substitution level. Maybe it's the brain, maybe the whole body or the entire planet. The duplication machines assume the body, but then this restriction is removed. If no substitut

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

On 14 Apr 2015, at 02:48, meekerdb wrote: On 4/13/2015 2:56 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Tuesday, April 14, 2015, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2015-04-13 23:08 GMT+02:00 Stathis Papaioannou : On Tuesday, April 14, 2015, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2015-04-13 19:50 GMT+02:00 Stathis P

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

On 14 Apr 2015, at 05:03, Bruce Kellett wrote: Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 14 April 2015 at 12:18, Bruce Kellett wrote: Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 14 April 2015 at 11:26, Bruce Kellett wrote: It's an illusion even in a dualist model, because dualism does not logically rule out c

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

2015-04-14 8:44 GMT+02:00 Stathis Papaioannou : > On 14 April 2015 at 16:31, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > >> > Some sort of dualisms could allow duplication others don't. Saying you > >> > can > >> > whatever methaphysical axioms is false. Consciousness could be linked > >> > for > >> > example by