Re: Stenger on Initial Low Entropy

2020-10-18 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 3:31 PM Jason Resch wrote: > On Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 10:33 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 1:09 PM Jason Resch wrote: >> >>> On Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 8:47 PM Bruce Kellett >>> wrote: >>> Remember that entropy is basically related to the

Re: Stenger on Initial Low Entropy

2020-10-18 Thread Jason Resch
On Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 10:33 PM Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 1:09 PM Jason Resch wrote: > >> On Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 8:47 PM Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> >>> Remember that entropy is basically related to the volume of phase space, >>> not of ordinary space. And phase space

Re: Stenger on Initial Low Entropy

2020-10-18 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 1:09 PM Jason Resch wrote: > On Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 8:47 PM Bruce Kellett wrote: > >> >> Remember that entropy is basically related to the volume of phase space, >> not of ordinary space. And phase space relates to the number of particles >> (hence mass-energy). Spatial

Re: Stenger on Initial Low Entropy

2020-10-18 Thread Jason Resch
On Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 8:47 PM Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 12:07 PM Jason Resch wrote: > >> On Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 7:31 PM Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 11:21 AM Jason Resch >>> wrote: >>> On Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 6:53 PM Bruce Kellett wrote:

Re: Stenger on Initial Low Entropy

2020-10-18 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 12:07 PM Jason Resch wrote: > On Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 7:31 PM Bruce Kellett wrote: > >> On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 11:21 AM Jason Resch >> wrote: >> >>> On Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 6:53 PM Bruce Kellett >>> wrote: >>> On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 3:33 AM Jason Resch wrote:

Re: Stenger on Initial Low Entropy

2020-10-18 Thread Jason Resch
On Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 7:31 PM Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 11:21 AM Jason Resch wrote: > >> On Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 6:53 PM Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 3:33 AM Jason Resch >>> wrote: >>> On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 6:19 AM Bruce Kellett wrote:

Re: Stenger on Initial Low Entropy

2020-10-18 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 11:21 AM Jason Resch wrote: > On Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 6:53 PM Bruce Kellett wrote: > >> On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 3:33 AM Jason Resch wrote: >> >>> On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 6:19 AM Bruce Kellett >>> wrote: >>> On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 5:49 PM Jason Resch wrote:

Re: Stenger on Initial Low Entropy

2020-10-18 Thread Lawrence Crowell
On Sunday, October 18, 2020 at 10:11:15 AM UTC-5 agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > On Sunday, October 18, 2020 at 6:09:39 AM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: >> >> On Sun, Oct 18, 2020 Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> *> If the very early universe is a hot photon gas, wouldn't that be a >>> very high entropy

Re: Stenger on Initial Low Entropy

2020-10-18 Thread Jason Resch
On Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 6:53 PM Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 3:33 AM Jason Resch wrote: > >> On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 6:19 AM Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 5:49 PM Jason Resch >>> wrote: >>> On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 6:07 PM Bruce Kellett

Re: Stenger on Initial Low Entropy

2020-10-18 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 3:33 AM Jason Resch wrote: > On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 6:19 AM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 5:49 PM Jason Resch wrote: >> >>> On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 6:07 PM Bruce Kellett >>> wrote: >>> On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 9:51 AM Jason Resch wrote:

Re: Stenger on Initial Low Entropy

2020-10-18 Thread John Clark
On Sun, Oct 18, 2020 at 12:33 PM Jason Resch wrote: *> But according to the Bekenstein bound, the maximum possible entropy of a > system is bound by its mass/enegy AND its volume. * The problem with the Bekenstein Bound Is that it assumes General Relativity will never need to be modified

Re: Stenger on Initial Low Entropy

2020-10-18 Thread John Clark
On Sun, Oct 18, 2020 at 11:11 AM Alan Grayson wrote: *> In Boltzmann's formula for entropy, gravity isn't a parameter.* Gravity can be Ignored in some situations, such as those Boltzmann could have performed in his lab, but not in other situations, such as in the very early universe, or in the

Re: Evidence for, and implications of, fine-tuning

2020-10-18 Thread Jason Resch
On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 6:44 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 15 Oct 2020, at 04:38, Jason Resch wrote: > > I just finished an article on all the science behind fine-tuning, and how > the evidence suggests an infinite, and possibly complete reality. I thought > others on this list might

Re: Evidence for, and implications of, fine-tuning

2020-10-18 Thread Jason Resch
On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 3:54 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > > On 10/15/2020 12:46 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 1:56 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < > everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > >> You should

Re: Stenger on Initial Low Entropy

2020-10-18 Thread Jason Resch
On Sun, Oct 18, 2020 at 3:12 AM Alan Grayson wrote: > > > On Friday, October 16, 2020 at 1:42:25 AM UTC-6, Jason wrote: >> >> >> >> On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 1:47 AM Alan Grayson wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Thursday, October 15, 2020 at 4:51:13 PM UTC-6, Jason wrote: I noticed that Victor

Re: Stenger on Initial Low Entropy

2020-10-18 Thread Jason Resch
On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 6:53 AM Lawrence Crowell < goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Friday, October 16, 2020 at 6:19:14 AM UTC-5 Bruce wrote: > >> On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 5:49 PM Jason Resch wrote: >> >>> On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 6:07 PM Bruce Kellett >>> wrote: >>> On Fri, Oct

Re: Stenger on Initial Low Entropy

2020-10-18 Thread Jason Resch
On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 6:19 AM Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 5:49 PM Jason Resch wrote: > >> On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 6:07 PM Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 9:51 AM Jason Resch >>> wrote: >>> I noticed that Victor Stenger's position on entropy, as

Re: Stenger on Initial Low Entropy

2020-10-18 Thread Jason Resch
On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 5:37 AM Lawrence Crowell < goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Thursday, October 15, 2020 at 5:51:13 PM UTC-5 Jason wrote: > >> I noticed that Victor Stenger's position on entropy, as described here: >> https://arxiv.org/pdf/1202.4359.pdf on page 7, appears to be

Re: Stenger on Initial Low Entropy

2020-10-18 Thread Alan Grayson
On Sunday, October 18, 2020 at 6:09:39 AM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: > > On Sun, Oct 18, 2020 Alan Grayson > > wrote: > > *> If the very early universe is a hot photon gas, wouldn't that be a very >> high entropy initial condition?* > > > That would be true if gravity was not an important factor

Re: Stenger on Initial Low Entropy

2020-10-18 Thread John Clark
On Sun, Oct 18, 2020 Alan Grayson wrote: *> If the very early universe is a hot photon gas, wouldn't that be a very > high entropy initial condition?* That would be true if gravity was not an important factor as is the case for most experiments we can produce in the lab where gravity can be

Re: Penrose - Is Mathematics Invented or Discovered?

2020-10-18 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 17 Oct 2020, at 00:21, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Friday, October 16, 2020 at 12:58:43 AM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > " Is Mathematics Invented or Discovered?" is the same as " Is Programming > Invented or Discovered?" > > > Arche-programming >

Re: Penrose - Is Mathematics Invented or Discovered?

2020-10-18 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 15 Oct 2020, at 06:20, Alan Grayson wrote: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujvS2K06dg4 Not much time to look at the video, but from his book, despite its notorious misunderstanding of Gödel’s incompleteness theorem, Penrose seems quite reasonable on mathematical realism. I met

Re: Trump's new super spreader event

2020-10-18 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 14 Oct 2020, at 23:22, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, October 14, 2020 at 2:41:36 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > On 10/14/2020 3:27 AM, John Clark wrote: >> On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 6:10 PM > wrote: >> >> > the democrat riots, arson, looting, violent protests. shootings, etc.

Re: Stenger on Initial Low Entropy

2020-10-18 Thread Alan Grayson
On Friday, October 16, 2020 at 1:42:25 AM UTC-6, Jason wrote: > > > > On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 1:47 AM Alan Grayson > wrote: > >> >> >> On Thursday, October 15, 2020 at 4:51:13 PM UTC-6, Jason wrote: >>> >>> I noticed that Victor Stenger's position on entropy, as described here: >>>