Re: Irreducible randomness in QM

2020-12-25 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Sat, Dec 26, 2020 at 4:02 PM Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > On Sat, 26 Dec 2020 at 14:14, Bruce Kellett wrote: > >> On Sat, Dec 26, 2020 at 2:08 PM Stathis Papaioannou >> wrote: >> >>> On Sat, 26 Dec 2020 at 13:01, Bruce Kellett >>> wrote: >>> On Sat, Dec 26, 2020 at 12:32 PM Stathis

Re: Irreducible randomness in QM

2020-12-25 Thread Alan Grayson
*You could have omitted your snotty second sentence. Why is it OK for you to use the List to mentally jerk off about the applicability of Born's rule in the context of an interpretation you know is false, the MWI, than not for me to ask a question which might have a simple answer, or path to

Re: Irreducible randomness in QM

2020-12-25 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Sat, 26 Dec 2020 at 14:14, Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Sat, Dec 26, 2020 at 2:08 PM Stathis Papaioannou > wrote: > >> On Sat, 26 Dec 2020 at 13:01, Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> On Sat, Dec 26, 2020 at 12:32 PM Stathis Papaioannou >>> wrote: >>> On Sat, 26 Dec 2020 at 09:02, Bruce

Re: Irreducible randomness in QM

2020-12-25 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Sat, Dec 26, 2020 at 2:08 PM Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > On Sat, 26 Dec 2020 at 13:01, Bruce Kellett wrote: > >> On Sat, Dec 26, 2020 at 12:32 PM Stathis Papaioannou >> wrote: >> >>> On Sat, 26 Dec 2020 at 09:02, Bruce Kellett >>> wrote: >>> On Fri, Dec 25, 2020 at 11:29 PM Stathis

Re: Irreducible randomness in QM

2020-12-25 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Sat, 26 Dec 2020 at 13:01, Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Sat, Dec 26, 2020 at 12:32 PM Stathis Papaioannou > wrote: > >> On Sat, 26 Dec 2020 at 09:02, Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> On Fri, Dec 25, 2020 at 11:29 PM Stathis Papaioannou >>> wrote: >>> On Fri, 25 Dec 2020 at 22:17, Bruce

Re: Irreducible randomness in QM

2020-12-25 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Sat, Dec 26, 2020 at 12:32 PM Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > On Sat, 26 Dec 2020 at 09:02, Bruce Kellett wrote: > >> On Fri, Dec 25, 2020 at 11:29 PM Stathis Papaioannou >> wrote: >> >>> On Fri, 25 Dec 2020 at 22:17, Bruce Kellett >>> wrote: >>> It can be a metaphysical truth

Re: Irreducible randomness in QM

2020-12-25 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Sat, 26 Dec 2020 at 09:02, Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Fri, Dec 25, 2020 at 11:29 PM Stathis Papaioannou > wrote: > >> On Fri, 25 Dec 2020 at 22:17, Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> >>> It can be a metaphysical truth without there being any dualist >>> underpinnings. The problem, as you point

Re: Irreducible randomness in QM

2020-12-25 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Fri, Dec 25, 2020 at 11:29 PM Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > On Fri, 25 Dec 2020 at 22:17, Bruce Kellett wrote: > >> >> It can be a metaphysical truth without there being any dualist >> underpinnings. The problem, as you point out, is when there are multiple >> copies of you extant at a single

Re: Irreducible randomness in QM

2020-12-25 Thread 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List
On 12/25/2020 3:17 AM, Bruce Kellett wrote: On Fri, Dec 25, 2020 at 9:41 PM Stathis Papaioannou mailto:stath...@gmail.com>> wrote: On Fri, 25 Dec 2020 at 21:32, Bruce Kellett mailto:bhkellet...@gmail.com>> wrote: On Fri, Dec 25, 2020 at 6:27 PM Stathis Papaioannou

Re: Irreducible randomness in QM

2020-12-25 Thread John Clark
On Thu, Dec 24, 2020 at 10:55 AM wrote: *> There are three possible ways out this problem of course. One is to say > these string must be finite and thus the set of them enumerable. The other > is to abandon the axiom of choice which permits the ordering I mention > above. The third would be to

Re: Irreducible randomness in QM

2020-12-25 Thread John Clark
On Thu, Dec 24, 2020 at 11:37 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: * >That the Born rule doesn't derive from the Schroedinger equation doesn't > bother me. * > We don't need to derive the Born Rule from the Schroedinger equation or from anything else

Re: Irreducible randomness in QM

2020-12-25 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Fri, 25 Dec 2020 at 22:17, Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Fri, Dec 25, 2020 at 9:41 PM Stathis Papaioannou > wrote: > >> On Fri, 25 Dec 2020 at 21:32, Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> On Fri, Dec 25, 2020 at 6:27 PM Stathis Papaioannou >>> wrote: >>> On Fri, 25 Dec 2020 at 12:29, Bruce

Re: Irreducible randomness in QM

2020-12-25 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Fri, Dec 25, 2020 at 9:41 PM Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > On Fri, 25 Dec 2020 at 21:32, Bruce Kellett wrote: > >> On Fri, Dec 25, 2020 at 6:27 PM Stathis Papaioannou >> wrote: >> >>> On Fri, 25 Dec 2020 at 12:29, Bruce Kellett >>> wrote: >>> On Fri, Dec 25, 2020 at 12:13 PM Stathis

Re: Irreducible randomness in QM

2020-12-25 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Fri, 25 Dec 2020 at 21:32, Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Fri, Dec 25, 2020 at 6:27 PM Stathis Papaioannou > wrote: > >> On Fri, 25 Dec 2020 at 12:29, Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> On Fri, Dec 25, 2020 at 12:13 PM Stathis Papaioannou >>> wrote: >>> One is the probability that a

Re: Irreducible randomness in QM

2020-12-25 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Fri, Dec 25, 2020 at 6:27 PM Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > On Fri, 25 Dec 2020 at 12:29, Bruce Kellett wrote: > >> On Fri, Dec 25, 2020 at 12:13 PM Stathis Papaioannou >> wrote: >> >>> >>> One is the probability that a certain branch exists, the other is the >>> subjective probability that a

Re: Irreducible randomness in QM

2020-12-25 Thread Alan Grayson
*FY interest and information, the two prior links you supplied are within my pay grade and have high priority on my reading to-do list. The same hopefully applies to your links below. Also, of course, I will be studying the no-go theorems suggested by Bruce. TY, AG* On Friday, December 25,

Re: Irreducible randomness in QM

2020-12-25 Thread Alan Grayson
*In fact, if you could set your arrogance and ego aside for a moment, you'd see that I am raising a serious issue, albeit INDIRECTLY. Even if no FTL signaling is possible in QM according to the no-signaling theorems (and thereby saving relativity), this is "guaranteed" by assuming "intrinsic