Re: Bruno List continued

2011-10-02 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 01 Oct 2011, at 21:05, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Oct 1, 10:13 am, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 01 Oct 2011, at 03:39, Craig Weinberg wrote: The singularity is all the matter that there is, was, and will be, but it has no exterior - no cracks made of space or time, it's

Re: Interesting paper on consciousness, computation and MWI

2011-10-02 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 01 Oct 2011, at 22:23, meekerdb wrote: On 10/1/2011 8:15 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Oct 2011, at 09:31, Russell Standish wrote: On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 07:02:28PM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote: OK. But note that in this case you are using the notion of 3-OM (or computational state),

BOI Chapter 8 vs Schmidhuber

2011-10-02 Thread Russell Standish
In David Deutsch's Beginning of Infinity chapter 8, he criticises Schmidhuber's Great Programmer idea by saying that it is giving up on explanation in science, as the hardware on which the Great Program runs is unknowable. David, why do you say that? Surely, the question of what hardware is

Re: BOI Chapter 8 vs Schmidhuber

2011-10-02 Thread Bruno Marchal
Hi Russell, On 02 Oct 2011, at 11:37, Russell Standish wrote: In David Deutsch's Beginning of Infinity chapter 8, he criticises Schmidhuber's Great Programmer idea by saying that it is giving up on explanation in science, Actually I did address this point on the FOR list years ago. Somehow,

Re: Bruno List continued

2011-10-02 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Oct 1, 8:52 pm, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 5:35 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: I'm afraid the analogies you use don't help, at least for me. Does an ion channel ever open in the absence of an observable cause? It's a simple

Re: Bruno List continued

2011-10-02 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Oct 2, 5:01 am, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 01 Oct 2011, at 21:05, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Oct 1, 10:13 am, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 01 Oct 2011, at 03:39, Craig Weinberg wrote: The singularity is all the matter that there is, was, and will be, but

Re: Bruno List continued

2011-10-02 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 10:58 PM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: On Oct 1, 8:52 pm, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 5:35 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: I'm afraid the analogies you use don't help, at least for me. Does an ion

Re: David Eagleman on CHOICE

2011-10-02 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 3:01 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: It's a strange, almost paradoxical result but I think observer moments can be sub-conscious. If we say the minimum duration of a conscious moment is 100ms then 99ms and the remaining 1ms of this can occur at different times,

Re: David Eagleman on CHOICE

2011-10-02 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 4:16 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: It's a strange, almost paradoxical result but I think observer moments can be sub-conscious. If we say the minimum duration of a conscious moment is 100ms then 99ms and the remaining 1ms of this can occur at different

Re: Bruno List continued

2011-10-02 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Oct 2, 9:28 am, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: So you do believe that ion channels will open without an observable cause, since thoughts are not an observable cause. A neuroscientist would see neurons firing apparently for no reason, violating physical laws. Thoughts are

Re: David Eagleman on CHOICE

2011-10-02 Thread meekerdb
On 10/2/2011 7:13 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 3:01 AM, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.net wrote: It's a strange, almost paradoxical result but I think observer moments can be sub-conscious. If we say the minimum duration of a conscious moment is 100ms then 99ms and the

Re: Bruno List continued

2011-10-02 Thread meekerdb
On 10/2/2011 10:14 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Oct 2, 9:28 am, Stathis Papaioannoustath...@gmail.com wrote: So you do believe that ion channels will open without an observable cause, since thoughts are not an observable cause. A neuroscientist would see neurons firing apparently for no

Re: Bruno List continued

2011-10-02 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Oct 2, 7:00 pm, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 10/2/2011 10:14 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Oct 2, 9:28 am, Stathis Papaioannoustath...@gmail.com  wrote: So you do believe that ion channels will open without an observable cause, since thoughts are not an observable cause. A

Re: BOI Chapter 8 vs Schmidhuber

2011-10-02 Thread Russell Standish
On Sun, Oct 02, 2011 at 01:42:19PM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote: Hi Russell, On 02 Oct 2011, at 11:37, Russell Standish wrote: In David Deutsch's Beginning of Infinity chapter 8, he criticises Schmidhuber's Great Programmer idea by saying that it is giving up on explanation in science,

Re: [foar] BOI Chapter 8 vs Schmidhuber

2011-10-02 Thread Kim Jones
You could simply point to Goedel's Incompleteness Theorem which kind of mandates that not everything in a universe is explicable from *within* that universe. This is not to give up on explanation. This *is* the explanation. It is neither good nor bad as an explanation - but it does require an