Re: Re: Re: A rat brain robot
Hi Stathis Papaioannou I don't think so, because the robot rat seems to keep running into things. A real rat would skidaddle out of there. Roger , rclo...@verizon.net 8/18/2012 Leibniz would say, If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so everything could function. - Receiving the following content - From: Stathis Papaioannou Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-08-18, 09:32:31 Subject: Re: Re: A rat brain robot On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 8:04 AM, Roger rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Hi Stathis Papaioannou It would be useful if the ratbrain robot scientists would try to do some kind of biological imaging (magnetic resonance ? who knows ?) to verify that the segment of rat brain isn't just acting as an electrical conductor (or resistor or capacitor or inductor). Maybe they could just mo9nitor some of those functions during its operations. Neurons have resistance and capacitance, and if you changed these variables the neurons would malfunction. But the question was about the behaviour of the rat: do you think the robot rat could behave just like a biological rat given a certain environment or not? -- Stathis Papaioannou -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: Re: A rat brain robot
On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 10:48 AM, Roger rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Hi Stathis Papaioannou I don't think so, because the robot rat seems to keep running into things. A real rat would skidaddle out of there. This experiment is not quite what you think. It used only 60,000 rat neurons (equivalent to the brain of a fruit fly), whereas a whole rat brain has 1,000,000. Also, it interacts with the chip through a small number of electrodes (I think as few as 60, but it could be more). That it runs into things could also be a consequence of limited sensory data and/or poor motor control. Jason -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: A rat brain robot
Hi meekerdb why not what ? Roger , rclo...@verizon.net 8/17/2012 Leibniz would say, If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so everything could function. - Receiving the following content - From: meekerdb Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-08-14, 14:25:31 Subject: Re: A rat brain robot On 8/14/2012 10:38 AM, Roger wrote: Hi meekerdb ? ? No, Why not? except in case anyone's interested, there is a hybrid, which might have a future, the Rat Brain Robot ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QPiF4-iu6g So the neurons of a rat's brain can constitute a mind, but computer chips with the same functionality can't? Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: A rat brain robot
On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 11:24 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: It's begging the question to say the computer chips have 'the same functionality' as a rat's brain and then presume to claim that demonstrates functional equivalence. The whole question is what is meant by functionality. Do the computer chips metabolize oxygen? Do they produce antibodies to rat viruses? Again I point to my cymatics example. I can generate cymatic patterns on a monitor screen using computer chips without there being any sound associated with their production at all. There is no reason whatsoever to assume that any computer chip could ever have 'the same function' as a living cell. Function is a transactional relation, it is necessary but not sufficient to assure awareness. We're not interested in those other functions. What we're interested in, essentially, is whether the robot rat controlled by the computer chips moves in similar manner to a biological rat. You look at the robot rat and the biological rat for an arbitrary length of time and try to guess which is which. Do you think you could guess correctly? What aspects of the robot rat's movements do you think would give it away? -- Stathis Papaioannou -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
A rat brain robot
Hi meekerdb No, except in case anyone's interested, there is a hybrid, which might have a future, the Rat Brain Robot http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QPiF4-iu6g Roger , rclo...@verizon.net 8/14/2012 - Receiving the following content - From: meekerdb Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-08-11, 11:55:23 Subject: Re: The question of self. Dennet is here expanded through the use ofLeibniz and Kant On 8/11/2012 3:33 AM, Roger wrote: The question of self. Dennet is here expanded through the use of Leibniz's monads as Kant's categories with self as a supercategory logically including all of Kant's categories. ? Dennet has painted himself into a corner by following?he?aterialistic view of mind. Do you agree with Dennett that we can make a machine that has a mind? Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: A rat brain robot
On 8/14/2012 10:38 AM, Roger wrote: Hi meekerdb No, Why not? except in case anyone's interested, there is a hybrid, which might have a future, the Rat Brain Robot http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QPiF4-iu6g So the neurons of a rat's brain can constitute a mind, but computer chips with the same functionality can't? Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: A rat brain robot
On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 2:25:31 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: So the neurons of a rat's brain can constitute a mind, but computer chips with the same functionality can't? Brent It's begging the question to say the computer chips have 'the same functionality' as a rat's brain and then presume to claim that demonstrates functional equivalence. The whole question is what is meant by functionality. Do the computer chips metabolize oxygen? Do they produce antibodies to rat viruses? Again I point to my cymatics example. I can generate cymatic patterns on a monitor screen using computer chips without there being any sound associated with their production at all. There is no reason whatsoever to assume that any computer chip could ever have 'the same function' as a living cell. Function is a transactional relation, it is necessary but not sufficient to assure awareness. Craig -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/ohmyFXgb2O0J. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: A rat brain robot
On 8/14/2012 6:24 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 2:25:31 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: So the neurons of a rat's brain can constitute a mind, but computer chips with the same functionality can't? Brent It's begging the question to say the computer chips have 'the same functionality' as a rat's brain and then presume to claim that demonstrates functional equivalence. The whole question is what is meant by functionality. Do the computer chips metabolize oxygen? Do they produce antibodies to rat viruses? Do they make the little cybot do the same things? Again I point to my cymatics example. I can generate cymatic patterns on a monitor screen using computer chips without there being any sound associated with their production at all. There is no reason whatsoever to assume that any computer chip could ever have 'the same function' as a living cell. Function is a transactional relation, it is necessary but not sufficient to assure awareness. And you know this how? Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
