Re: General Relativity and Noether's theorem

2020-05-14 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 10:09 AM Alan Grayson wrote: > On Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 6:03:51 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> On Monday, May 11, 2020 at 12:42:03 AM UTC-6, Bruce wrote: >>> >>> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 4:24 PM Alan Grayson >>> wrote: >>> Thinking further about this, I

Re: General Relativity and Noether's theorem

2020-05-14 Thread Alan Grayson
On Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 6:03:51 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Monday, May 11, 2020 at 12:42:03 AM UTC-6, Bruce wrote: >> >> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 4:24 PM Alan Grayson wrote: >> >>> >>> Thinking further about this, I prefer my original hypothesis above, that >>> the cosmologica

Re: General Relativity and Noether's theorem

2020-05-14 Thread Alan Grayson
On Monday, May 11, 2020 at 12:42:03 AM UTC-6, Bruce wrote: > > On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 4:24 PM Alan Grayson > wrote: > >> >> Thinking further about this, I prefer my original hypothesis above, that >> the cosmological red-shift doesn't imply real loss of energy. It's just an >> apparent effect

Re: General Relativity and Noether's theorem

2020-05-11 Thread Alan Grayson
On Monday, May 11, 2020 at 12:42:03 AM UTC-6, Bruce wrote: > > On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 4:24 PM Alan Grayson > wrote: > >> >> Thinking further about this, I prefer my original hypothesis above, that >> the cosmological red-shift doesn't imply real loss of energy. It's just an >> apparent effect

Re: General Relativity and Noether's theorem

2020-05-11 Thread Alan Grayson
On Monday, May 11, 2020 at 6:45:12 AM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > > On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 10:51:09 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 2:27:51 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >>> >>> On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 9:59:14 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: >

Re: General Relativity and Noether's theorem

2020-05-11 Thread Lawrence Crowell
On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 10:51:09 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 2:27:51 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >> >> On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 9:59:14 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: >>> >>> On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 10:46 AM Alan Grayson >>> wrote: >>> >>> > *Haven't

Re: General Relativity and Noether's theorem

2020-05-11 Thread Alan Grayson
On Monday, May 11, 2020 at 12:42:03 AM UTC-6, Bruce wrote: > > On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 4:24 PM Alan Grayson > wrote: > >> >> Thinking further about this, I prefer my original hypothesis above, that >> the cosmological red-shift doesn't imply real loss of energy. It's just an >> apparent effect

Re: General Relativity and Noether's theorem

2020-05-10 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 4:24 PM Alan Grayson wrote: > > Thinking further about this, I prefer my original hypothesis above, that > the cosmological red-shift doesn't imply real loss of energy. It's just an > apparent effect due to relative motion, the usual Doppler shift. AG > The cosmologist T

Re: General Relativity and Noether's theorem

2020-05-10 Thread Alan Grayson
On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 11:51:59 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 9:51:09 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 2:27:51 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >>> >>> On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 9:59:14 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: >

Re: General Relativity and Noether's theorem

2020-05-10 Thread Alan Grayson
On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 9:51:09 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 2:27:51 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >> >> On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 9:59:14 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: >>> >>> On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 10:46 AM Alan Grayson >>> wrote: >>> >>> > *Haven't

Re: General Relativity and Noether's theorem

2020-05-10 Thread Alan Grayson
On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 2:27:51 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > > On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 9:59:14 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: >> >> On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 10:46 AM Alan Grayson >> wrote: >> >> > *Haven't you heard? Energy has mass equivalence, so one can ask how >>> the energy/mass

Re: General Relativity and Noether's theorem

2020-05-10 Thread Lawrence Crowell
On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 9:59:14 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 10:46 AM Alan Grayson > wrote: > > > *Haven't you heard? Energy has mass equivalence, so one can ask how >> the energy/mass "vanished". AG* >> > > And the answer you imbecile is that on the cosmological sc

Re: General Relativity and Noether's theorem

2020-05-10 Thread Alan Grayson
On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 8:59:14 AM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: > > On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 10:46 AM Alan Grayson > wrote: > > > *Haven't you heard? Energy has mass equivalence, so one can ask how >> the energy/mass "vanished". AG* >> > > And the answer you imbecile is that on the cosmological

Re: General Relativity and Noether's theorem

2020-05-10 Thread smitra
On 10-05-2020 16:46, Alan Grayson wrote: On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 8:40:29 AM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 10:30 AM Alan Grayson wrote: ___All our experience indicates that energy is conserved,_ Your knowledge is 91 years out of date, all our experience does NOT indica

Re: General Relativity and Noether's theorem

2020-05-10 Thread John Clark
On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 10:46 AM Alan Grayson wrote: > *Haven't you heard? Energy has mass equivalence, so one can ask how the > energy/mass "vanished". AG* > And the answer you imbecile is that on the cosmological scale energy/mass is *NOT* conserved, so just like everything else that is *NOT*

Re: General Relativity and Noether's theorem

2020-05-10 Thread Alan Grayson
On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 8:40:29 AM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: > > On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 10:30 AM Alan Grayson > wrote: > > > *All our experience indicates that energy is conserved,* > > > Your knowledge is 91 years out of date, all our experience does *NOT* > indicate energy is conserved. Ed

Re: General Relativity and Noether's theorem

2020-05-10 Thread John Clark
On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 10:30 AM Alan Grayson wrote: > *All our experience indicates that energy is conserved,* Your knowledge is 91 years out of date, all our experience does *NOT* indicate energy is conserved. Edwin Hubble discovered the cosmological redshift in 1929. John K Clark -- You r

Re: General Relativity and Noether's theorem

2020-05-10 Thread Alan Grayson
On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 6:56:35 AM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: > > On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 7:42 AM Alan Grayson > wrote: > > > Of course, if I ask the question, it implies conservation of energy. > > > Then why do you imply conservation of energy when we specifically said > energy is not conse

Re: General Relativity and Noether's theorem

2020-05-10 Thread Alan Grayson
On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 6:56:35 AM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: > > On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 7:42 AM Alan Grayson > wrote: > > > Of course, if I ask the question, it implies conservation of energy. > > > Then why do you imply conservation of energy when we specifically said > energy is not conse

Re: General Relativity and Noether's theorem

2020-05-10 Thread John Clark
On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 7:42 AM Alan Grayson wrote: > Of course, if I ask the question, it implies conservation of energy. Then why do you imply conservation of energy when we specifically said energy is not conserved? Nobody thinks Entropy is conserved so it would be silly to ask where it came

Re: General Relativity and Noether's theorem

2020-05-10 Thread Bruno Marchal
gt; > there is then no general symmetry rule for energy conservation. > > General Relativity and Noether's theorem were both found in 1916, and so > physicists knew that there was not a law of conservation of energy, so they > must have known the distant past and distant future

Re: General Relativity and Noether's theorem

2020-05-10 Thread Alan Grayson
On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 4:54:12 AM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: > > On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 10:31 PM Alan Grayson > wrote: > > >> *> Now, assuming energy is not conserved, it's still a reasonable >> question about where the lost energy goes,* >> > > No, that is NOT a reasonable question, that is

Re: General Relativity and Noether's theorem

2020-05-10 Thread John Clark
On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 10:31 PM Alan Grayson wrote: > *> Now, assuming energy is not conserved, it's still a reasonable question > about where the lost energy goes,* > No, that is NOT a reasonable question, that is not even close to being a reasonable question! If the lost energy actually went

Re: General Relativity and Noether's theorem

2020-05-09 Thread Alan Grayson
local translations of vectors >>> etc, there is then no general symmetry rule for energy conservation. >> >> >> General Relativity and Noether's theorem were both found in 1916, and so >> physicists knew that there was not a law of conservation of energy,

Re: General Relativity and Noether's theorem

2020-05-09 Thread Lawrence Crowell
servation. > > > General Relativity and Noether's theorem were both found in 1916, and so > physicists knew that there was not a law of conservation of energy, so they > must have known the distant past and distant future must be very different > from how things are now. So why didn

General Relativity and Noether's theorem

2020-05-09 Thread John Clark
On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 7:49 AM Lawrence Crowell < goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> wrote: > since GR is a local principle, based on local translations of vectors > etc, there is then no general symmetry rule for energy conservation. General Relativity and Noether's theorem w