Re: R/ASSA query

2010-01-18 Thread Rex Allen
On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 1:05 AM, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.com wrote: Rex Allen wrote: So I'm just trying to understand my situation here. To me, my existence seems quite perplexing. An explanation is in order. But you never say what would count as an explanation - which makes me

Re: on consciousness levels and ai

2010-01-18 Thread silky
On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 6:57 PM, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.com wrote: silky wrote: On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 6:08 PM, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.com wrote: silky wrote: I'm not sure if this question is appropriate here, nevertheless, the most direct way to find out is to ask

Re: on consciousness levels and ai

2010-01-18 Thread Brent Meeker
silky wrote: On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 6:57 PM, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.com wrote: silky wrote: On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 6:08 PM, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.com wrote: silky wrote: I'm not sure if this question is appropriate here, nevertheless, the most

Re: R/ASSA query

2010-01-18 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 17 Jan 2010, at 09:11, Brent Meeker wrote: Brent The reason that there is Something rather than Nothing is that Nothing is unstable. -- Frank Wilczek, Nobel Laureate, phyiscs 2004 So, why is Nothing unstable? Because there are so many ways to be something and only one way to be

Re: R/ASSA query

2010-01-18 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 18 Jan 2010, at 00:37, Rex Allen wrote: The patterns I've observed don't explain my conscious experience. There's nothing in my concept of patterns which would explain how it might give rise to conscious experience. So I fully buy the idea that patterns (physical or platonic) can be used

Re: R/ASSA query

2010-01-18 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
2010/1/18 Nick Prince m...@dtech.fsnet.co.uk: If you had to guess you would say that your present OM is a common rather than a rare one, because you are more likely to be right. However, knowledge trumps probability. If you know that your present OM is common and your successor OM a minute

Re: on consciousness levels and ai

2010-01-18 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
2010/1/18 silky michaelsli...@gmail.com: It would be my (naive) assumption, that this is arguably trivial to do. We can design a program that has a desire to 'live', as desire to find mates, and otherwise entertain itself. In this way, with some other properties, we can easily model simply

Re: on consciousness levels and ai

2010-01-18 Thread John Mikes
Dear Brent, is it your 'conscious' position to look at things in an anthropocentric limitation? If you substitute consistently 'animal' for 'pet', you can include the human animal as well. In that case your #1: would you consider 'distress' a disturbed mental state only, or include organisational

Re: on consciousness levels and ai

2010-01-18 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 18 Jan 2010, at 16:35, John Mikes wrote: Is a universal mchine 'live'? I would say yes, despite the concrete artificial one still needs humans in its reproduction cycle. But we need plants and bacteria. I think that all machines, including houses and garden are alive in that sense.

Re: R/ASSA query

2010-01-18 Thread Brent Meeker
Bruno Marchal wrote: On 17 Jan 2010, at 09:11, Brent Meeker wrote: Brent The reason that there is Something rather than Nothing is that Nothing is unstable. -- Frank Wilczek, Nobel Laureate, phyiscs 2004 So, why is Nothing unstable? Because there are so many ways to be something

Re: R/ASSA query

2010-01-18 Thread Brent Meeker
Bruno Marchal wrote: On 18 Jan 2010, at 00:37, Rex Allen wrote: The patterns I've observed don't explain my conscious experience. There's nothing in my concept of patterns which would explain how it might give rise to conscious experience. So I fully buy the idea that patterns (physical or

Re: on consciousness levels and ai

2010-01-18 Thread silky
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:24 AM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/1/18 silky michaelsli...@gmail.com: It would be my (naive) assumption, that this is arguably trivial to do. We can design a program that has a desire to 'live', as desire to find mates, and otherwise

Re: on consciousness levels and ai

2010-01-18 Thread Brent Meeker
silky wrote: On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:24 AM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/1/18 silky michaelsli...@gmail.com: It would be my (naive) assumption, that this is arguably trivial to do. We can design a program that has a desire to 'live', as desire to find mates, and

Re: on consciousness levels and ai

2010-01-18 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
2010/1/19 silky michaelsli...@gmail.com: On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:24 AM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/1/18 silky michaelsli...@gmail.com: It would be my (naive) assumption, that this is arguably trivial to do. We can design a program that has a desire to 'live', as

Re: on consciousness levels and ai

2010-01-18 Thread silky
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.com wrote: silky wrote: On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:24 AM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/1/18 silky michaelsli...@gmail.com: It would be my (naive) assumption, that this is arguably trivial to do. We

Re: R/ASSA query

2010-01-18 Thread Nick Prince
On Jan 18, 2:11 pm, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/1/18 Nick Prince m...@dtech.fsnet.co.uk: If you had to guess you would say that your present OM is a common rather than a rare one, because you are more likely to be right. However, knowledge trumps probability.

Re: on consciousness levels and ai

2010-01-18 Thread silky
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/1/19 silky michaelsli...@gmail.com: On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:24 AM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/1/18 silky michaelsli...@gmail.com: It would be my (naive) assumption, that this

Re: on consciousness levels and ai

2010-01-18 Thread Brent Meeker
silky wrote: On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.com wrote: silky wrote: On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:24 AM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/1/18 silky michaelsli...@gmail.com: It would be my (naive) assumption, that

Re: on consciousness levels and ai

2010-01-18 Thread silky
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.comwrote: silky wrote: On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.com wrote: silky wrote: On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:24 AM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/1/18 silky

Re: on consciousness levels and ai

2010-01-18 Thread Brent Meeker
silky wrote: On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/1/19 silky michaelsli...@gmail.com: On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:24 AM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/1/18 silky michaelsli...@gmail.com: It would be my

Re: on consciousness levels and ai

2010-01-18 Thread silky
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:49 PM, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.comwrote: silky wrote: On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/1/19 silky michaelsli...@gmail.com: On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:24 AM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com

Re: on consciousness levels and ai

2010-01-18 Thread Brent Meeker
silky wrote: On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.com mailto:meeke...@dslextreme.com wrote: silky wrote: On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.com mailto:meeke...@dslextreme.com wrote: silky

Re: on consciousness levels and ai

2010-01-18 Thread silky
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 2:19 PM, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.comwrote: silky wrote: On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.commailto: meeke...@dslextreme.com wrote: silky wrote: On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Brent Meeker

Re: on consciousness levels and ai

2010-01-18 Thread Brent Meeker
silky wrote: On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 2:19 PM, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.com mailto:meeke...@dslextreme.com wrote: silky wrote: On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.com mailto:meeke...@dslextreme.com

Re: on consciousness levels and ai

2010-01-18 Thread silky
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 3:02 PM, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.comwrote: silky wrote: [...] Here we disagree. I don't see (not that I have experience in AI-programming specifically, mind you) how I can write a program and not have the results be deterministic. I wrote it; I know,