On Tue, May 10, 2005 at 04:44:21PM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>
> Goldblatt (see ref in my thesis) has made also a startling modal
> analysis of Minkowsky space time through an old greek Diodorean
> modality, which I wish to extract in the arithmetical frame imposed by
> comp, but I don't even
Hi Danny,
First there is a basic notion of TIME which is taken as primitive (and
perhaps related to the TIME hypothesis of Russell Standish, I don't
know) and which is just the (first order logic) notion of successive
natural numbers. This TIME is fixed and lives atemporally in Platonia,
and co
Bruno,
You've probably already addressed this recently, but given the number of
posts and my work load I have not been able to read the much of the list
recently. What does comp make of time? Is it merely some measure of
the relationships among bitstrings in platonia?
Danny
Bruno Marchal wro
Le 09-mai-05, à 19:39, Brent Meeker a écrit :
In what sense does "the program" exist if not as physical tokens? Is
it
enough
that you've thought of the concept? The same "program", i.e.
bit-string,
does
different things on different computers. So how can the program
instantiate
reality indepe
Le 10-mai-05, à 08:10, Hal Finney a écrit :
I'm not sure how to interpret the "z" in "x represents y to z". If a
computer generates string y from string x, is the computer the z?
And as for Chaitin's algorithmic complexity, I am afraid that you have
it backward, that it does apply to finite string
list@eskimo.com
> >Subject: RE: FW: Everything Physical is Based on Consciousness
> >
> >
> >Brent Meeker writes:
> >> >>From: "Hal Finney" [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> >Yes, I think it is enough that I have thought of the concept! Or mor
Brent Meeker writes:
> >>From: "Hal Finney" [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Yes, I think it is enough that I have thought of the concept! Or more
> >accurately, I think it is enough that the concept is thinkable-of.
>
> Why bother with the computer at all. Since you're just conceptualizing the
> com
>-Original Message-
>From: "Hal Finney" [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 4:12 AM
>To: everything-list@eskimo.com
>Subject: Re: FW: Everything Physical is Based on Consciousness
>
>
>>From: "Hal Finney" [mailto:[EMAIL
>From: "Hal Finney" [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Another way to think of it is that all bit strings
>exist, timelessly; and some of them implicitly specify computer programs;
>and some of those computer programs would create universes with observers
>just like us in them. You don't necessarily need
-Original Message-
> >-Original Message-
> >From: "Hal Finney" [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 8:12 PM
> >To: everything-list@eskimo.com
> >Subject: Re: Everything Physical is Based on Consciousness
> >
>
Le 09-mai-05, à 01:38, Russell Standish a écrit :
The simplest description can be found in Max Tegamark's paper "Is an
Ensemble theory the ultimate TOE?". He uses the term "frog
perspective" for 1st person, and "bird perspective" for 3rd person.
I agree more or less. Tegmark, like many physicists f
oment/ whatever you want to call it.
-- Stathis Papaioannou
From: "Brent Meeker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Stathis Papaioannou" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Everything Physical is Based on Consciousness
Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 22:57:22 -
There are many things
The simplest description can be found in Max Tegamark's paper "Is an
Ensemble theory the ultimate TOE?". He uses the term "frog
perspective" for 1st person, and "bird perspective" for 3rd person.
Bruno Marchal has also written quite a bit about it in Chapter 5 of
his (Lille) thesis. This is unfort
ome links that could help me better
understand these perspectives as they apply to the discussions.
Thank you.
Jeanne
- Original Message -
From: Stephen Paul King
To:
everything-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: Everything Physical is based on Consciousness
to some links
that could help me better understand these perspectives as they apply to the
discussions. Thank you.
Jeanne
- Original Message -
From:
Stephen
Paul King
To: everything-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: Everything Physica
Dear Stephen,I have no doubt that your critique of my
two statements is correct according to your understanding of what I
said. However, I think that I was unsuccessful in conveying what
I meant. Let me try again. (Effective communication is, for me
at least, very difficult in this forum.
27;t know yet. ;-)
Stephen
- Original Message -
From:
Norman Samish
To: everything-list@eskimo.com
Cc: everything-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 3:14 AM
Subject: Everything Physical is based on
Consciousness
Gentlemen,I think that we all must be
&
es to>answer questions is in doubt.> There
must be always some way for independent observers to agree upon>the
falsifiable implications of a theory. Here we are considering a theory>of
observers themselves...>>Stephen>>- Original
Message - From: "Stathis P
alas, there is nothing we can do about it.
--Stathis Papaioannou
From: "Stephen Paul King" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Stathis Papaioannou" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
CC:
Subject: Re: Everything Physical is Based on Consciousness
Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 10:27:45 -0400
Dear Stathis,
ange and permanence in change
possible.
Stephen
- Original Message - From: "Brian Scurfield"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: ; "'Stephen Paul King'"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 6:25 AM
Subject: The Sim'
Paul King'"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 6:25 AM
Subject: The Sim's of Platonia ( was: Everything Physical is Based on
Consciousness)
snip
OK, let's suppose we are sim's of Platonia. In particular, let's suppose
that us and the world ar
vers themselves...
Stephen
- Original Message -
From: "Stathis Papaioannou" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc:
Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 9:13 AM
Subject: Re: Everything Physical is Based on Consciousness
snip
OK, I agree. AI research is an experimental sc
of my adolescence heaping scorn on religion and other faith-based
belief systems, but I can't do anything about it.
--Stathis Papaioannou
- Original Message - From: "Stathis Papaioannou"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
C
Charles wrote:
> > [Stephen]
> > The perpetual question I have (about the epiphenomena problem that
> > any form of Idealism has), regarding this notion of a Platonic
> > Reality, is that IF all possible Forms of existence *exist* a
> > priori - "from the beginning" - what necessitates any form of
Dear Lee,
- Original Message -
From: "Lee Corbin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 5:51 PM
Subject: RE: Everything Physical is Based on Consciousness
Stephen writes
The perpetual question I have (about the epiphenomena pr
t;[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc:
Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 11:20 AM
Subject: RE: Everything Physical is Based on Consciousness
This is a wonderfully clear explanation of Bruno's UDA. Perhaps Bruno
could confirm that it is what he intended.
A
Stephen Paul King writes:
> I think that your characterization would be accurate if you could
> somehow substitute each and every verb, such as "generate", "execute",
> "compare", "detect", "create", which depend on some form of transitional
> temporality with nouns that have a non-temporal
tent; if we postulate a timeless realm then we are
eliminating any notion that depends of change. Time is, after all, the
measure of change.
Stephen
- Original Message -
From: ""Hal Finney"" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 12:40 PM
Subject: R
Bruno Marchal writes:
> The problem is that from the first person point of view, the arbitrary
> delays, introduced by the UD, cannot be taken into account, so that
> big programs cannot be evacuated so easily. This does not mean little
> programs, or some little programs, does not win in the limit
ED]>
To: "'Stephen Paul King'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
CC: everything-list@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: Everything Physical is Based on Consciousness
Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 18:04:45 +1200
In reply to Lee Corbin on the Fabric of Reality List
r, you
can say this, and the UDA still holds.
--Stathis Papaioannou
From: Brian Scurfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Stephen Paul King'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
CC: everything-list@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: Everything Physical is Based on Consciousness
Date: Fri, 06
In reply to Lee Corbin on the Fabric of Reality List
Lee,
You gave us some wonderful examples of totally ridiculous Turing Machines
that are nevertheless possible (I would at this point ask somebody to take
away Charles' keyboard). You have not
OTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 10:47 AM
Subject: Rép : Everything Physical is Based on Consciousness
snip
Brian wrote also this to Stephen:
We need to be very careful that we are not elevating our internally
generated abstraction of being able to "peek into the world from the
outsi
Dear Brian,
- Original Message -
From: "Brian Scurfield" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 7:36 AM
Subject: RE: Everything Physical is Based on Consciousness
Stephen wrote:
The perpetual question I have (about the epiphen
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