Re: Is the Turing machine like a tabla rasa ?
OK, thanks. I do appreciate him, but I am not versed in semiotics vocabulary. In fact I am collaborating with him, and have recently published some collective work on biomathematics with him and others. It is too early to really see the connection with comp. Work in progress. Bruno On 16 Aug 2012, at 20:08, meekerdb wrote: On 8/16/2012 9:36 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 16 Aug 2012, at 16:59, William R. Buckley wrote: Bruno: Are you reading Stanley Salthy? Know of his work in hierarchy theory? I don't find references. Please give a link, or do a summary, if possible explaining why that would be relevant. Thanks. Bruno He has some papers on his website. The name is Salthe though,not Salthy. Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
RE: Is the Turing machine like a tabla rasa ?
Bruno: Are you reading Stanley Salthy? Know of his work in hierarchy theory? wrb From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bruno Marchal Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 12:56 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Is the Turing machine like a tabla rasa ? On 14 Aug 2012, at 17:59, Roger wrote: Hi Bruno Marchal What is it that Locke and Hume claimed ? That we can think nothing that did not come through our senses, that is, from experience. But Turing machines cannot experience life. They can only experience 0s and 1s. See my preview answer on this, and Jason's comment. You are flattening the many possible hierarchies and loop possible for virtual universal entities. Bruno Roger , mailto:rclo...@verizon.net rclo...@verizon.net 8/14/2012 - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be Receiver: everything-list mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com Time: 2012-08-12, 05:06:41 Subject: Re: Definitions of intelligence possibly useful to computers in AI ordescribing life On 11 Aug 2012, at 10:30, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 10.08.2012 00:55 Russell Standish said the following: The point being that life need not be intelligent. In fact 999.9% of life (but whatever measure, numbers, biomass etc) is unintelligent. The study of artificial life by the same reason need not be a study of artitificial intelligence, although because of a biases as an intelligent species, a significantly higher fraction of alife research is about AI. What does intelligence means in this context that life is unintelligent? Let us compare for example a bacterium and a rock. Where there is more intelligence? Bacteria are provably Turing complete, rocks are not. You might remind us what you mean by intelligent. I tend to oppose it to competence and learning. Intelligence is needed for making competence capable of growing and diversified, but competence has a negative feedback on intelligence. I use intelligence in a sense closer to free-will and consciousness than an ability to solve problems. IQ tests concerns always form of competence (very basic one: they have been invented to detect mental disability). Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. mailto:%20everything-l...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. mailto:%20unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Is the Turing machine like a tabla rasa ?
On 16 Aug 2012, at 16:59, William R. Buckley wrote: Bruno: Are you reading Stanley Salthy? Know of his work in hierarchy theory? I don't find references. Please give a link, or do a summary, if possible explaining why that would be relevant. Thanks. Bruno wrb From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com ] On Behalf Of Bruno Marchal Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 12:56 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Is the Turing machine like a tabla rasa ? On 14 Aug 2012, at 17:59, Roger wrote: Hi Bruno Marchal What is it that Locke and Hume claimed ? That we can think nothing that did not come through our senses, that is, from experience. But Turing machines cannot experience life. They can only experience 0s and 1s. See my preview answer on this, and Jason's comment. You are flattening the many possible hierarchies and loop possible for virtual universal entities. Bruno Roger , rclo...@verizon.net 8/14/2012 - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-08-12, 05:06:41 Subject: Re: Definitions of intelligence possibly useful to computers in AI ordescribing life On 11 Aug 2012, at 10:30, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 10.08.2012 00:55 Russell Standish said the following: The point being that life need not be intelligent. In fact 999.9% of life (but whatever measure, numbers, biomass etc) is unintelligent. The study of artificial life by the same reason need not be a study of artitificial intelligence, although because of a biases as an intelligent species, a significantly higher fraction of alife research is about AI. What does intelligence means in this context that life is unintelligent? Let us compare for example a bacterium and a rock. Where there is more intelligence? Bacteria are provably Turing complete, rocks are not. You might remind us what you mean by intelligent. I tend to oppose it to competence and learning. Intelligence is needed for making competence capable of growing and diversified, but competence has a negative feedback on intelligence. I use intelligence in a sense closer to free-will and consciousness than an ability to solve problems. IQ tests concerns always form of competence (very basic one: they have been invented to detect mental disability). Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Is the Turing machine like a tabla rasa ?
On 8/16/2012 9:36 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 16 Aug 2012, at 16:59, William R. Buckley wrote: Bruno: Are you reading Stanley Salthy? Know of his work in hierarchy theory? I don't find references. Please give a link, or do a summary, if possible explaining why that would be relevant. Thanks. Bruno He has some papers on his website. The name is Salthe though,not Salthy. Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Is the Turing machine like a tabla rasa ?
On 14 Aug 2012, at 17:59, Roger wrote: Hi Bruno Marchal What is it that Locke and Hume claimed ? That we can think nothing that did not come through our senses, that is, from experience. But Turing machines cannot experience life. They can only experience 0s and 1s. See my preview answer on this, and Jason's comment. You are flattening the many possible hierarchies and loop possible for virtual universal entities. Bruno Roger , rclo...@verizon.net 8/14/2012 - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-08-12, 05:06:41 Subject: Re: Definitions of intelligence possibly useful to computers in AI ordescribing life On 11 Aug 2012, at 10:30, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 10.08.2012 00:55 Russell Standish said the following: The point being that life need not be intelligent. In fact 999.9% of life (but whatever measure, numbers, biomass etc) is unintelligent. The study of artificial life by the same reason need not be a study of artitificial intelligence, although because of a biases as an intelligent species, a significantly higher fraction of alife research is about AI. What does intelligence means in this context that life is unintelligent? Let us compare for example a bacterium and a rock. Where there is more intelligence? Bacteria are provably Turing complete, rocks are not. You might remind us what you mean by intelligent. I tend to oppose it to competence and learning. Intelligence is needed for making competence capable of growing and diversified, but competence has a negative feedback on intelligence. I use intelligence in a sense closer to free-will and consciousness than an ability to solve problems. IQ tests concerns always form of competence (very basic one: they have been invented to detect mental disability). Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Is the Turing machine like a tabla rasa ?
On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 Roger rclo...@verizon.net wrote: What is it that Locke and Hume claimed ? Who cares? Today a bright high school physics or biology student understands far more about the inter workings of the universe than either Locke or Hume. Turing machines cannot experience life. They can only experience 0s and 1s. And you can only experience the firings of the neurons in your brain and Shakespeare only produced a sequence of ASCII characters. Do you fine anything a bit simplistic in this worldview? John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
