Re: And the 2013 Nobel Prize in Physics goes to…

[John Mikes]

John, thanks for the info, useful, because not having ever run the danger
of being assaulted by a Nobel Prize, I did not study their in depth history.
HOWEVER: in my sentence I meant: the FIRST ONE when he made up his original
listing ("in the ORIGINAL list"), not *later on added* 'as first addition'
 TO the original listing.


On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 1:48 PM, John Clark  wrote:

> On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 2:55 PM, John Mikes  wrote:
>
> > The so called *Peace Prize* (maybe the No.1 as added to Nobel's
>> original list)
>>
>
> The Peace Prizewas in Nobel's will to be given to those who have "done the
> most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or
> reduction of standing armies", its the Economics Prize that was added much
> later.  The reputations of many of the Peace and Literature Prizes have not
> stood the test of time very well, but the science prizes have done much
> better, although there have been some silly choices, like the 1912 physics
> prize to Gustaf Dalén for improving a lighthouse, and some glaring
> omissions, like snubbing Edwin Hubble and nobody getting a prize for the
> polio vaccine.  And there should have been a mathematics Prize.
>
>   John K Clark
>
>
>
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Re: And the 2013 Nobel Prize in Physics goes to…

[John Clark]

On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 2:55 PM, John Mikes  wrote:

> The so called *Peace Prize* (maybe the No.1 as added to Nobel's original
> list)
>

The Peace Prizewas in Nobel's will to be given to those who have "done the
most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or
reduction of standing armies", its the Economics Prize that was added much
later.  The reputations of many of the Peace and Literature Prizes have not
stood the test of time very well, but the science prizes have done much
better, although there have been some silly choices, like the 1912 physics
prize to Gustaf Dalén for improving a lighthouse, and some glaring
omissions, like snubbing Edwin Hubble and nobody getting a prize for the
polio vaccine.  And there should have been a mathematics Prize.

  John K Clark

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Re: And the 2013 Nobel Prize in Physics goes to…

[John Mikes]

Not being prone to any Nobel prizes, I watch them pretty objectively.
Alfred Nobel established it due to his biting conscience: he wanted to
eliminate ALL wars by inventing (and starting to manufacture) the stuff he
deemed too aggressive to let people wage wars in his future: a wholesale
production of nitro glycerin. He observed the failure: HIS stuff made WARS
even more ferocious - so he dedicated his fortune (from nitro) to serve
good humanitarian (v.lc. scientific) achievements. He honored the Swedish
Royal Family with assigning the prizes - a body surely not on top of new
science, but trustable in objectivity and choice of experts.

I don't know much about the *Higgs boson*, according to some scientific
gossip he tried to withdraw it - to no avail, it was already 'too big' to
fall.

I am also quite ignorant about the chemistry choice of the following day's
decision: in *computerized chemistry* (3-way split) which started to unfold
during the time of my retirement when I still 'believed' IN atoms and
molecules. (Lately being washed away into agnosticism as explanatory
figments of a Physical World level)

The so called *Peace Prize* (maybe the No.1 as added to Nobel's original
list) is tricky in a world of constant warring. This year's choice *(the
UN-based - Organization to supervise the annihilation of Assad's chemical
weapons*) - and not the Assad-regime *DOING* the annihilation is again a
joke. It leaves out the AlQaeda and ilk ("rebel"?) parties holding a good
part of such weaponry - mostly conquered earlier from the Syrian forces.

And an agreeing remark to Bruno: IMO: not *Brout "died early"*: the Nobel
Committee was late. Peoples should get celebrated even in 'posthumus'
awards.

John M



On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Bruno Marchal  wrote:

>
> On 09 Oct 2013, at 22:22, meekerdb wrote:
>
>  On 10/9/2013 12:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>
>
>  On 08 Oct 2013, at 23:56, LizR wrote:
>
>
>
> http://www.quantumdiaries.org/2013/10/08/and-the-2013-nobel-prize-in-physics-goes-to/
>
> Today the 2013 Nobel Prize in 
> Physicswas 
> awarded to François Englert (Université Libre de Bruxelles, Belgium)
> and Peter W. Higgs (University of Edinburgh, UK). The official citation is
> “for the theoretical discovery of a mechanism that contributes to our
> understanding of the origin of mass of subatomic particles, and which
> recently was confirmed through the discovery of the predicted fundamental
> particle, by the ATLAS and CMS experiments at CERN’s Large Hadron Collider.”
>
>
>
>  I know him very well. I begun my work in his team, with Robert Brout. He
> asked me how to apply QM in cosmology, and I refer to the MWI. He added
> some footnote in one of his papers, just referring to Everett's original
> work, without any detail. He didn't like this, but somehow understood it is
> hard to make sense of quantum cosmology without it.
> I am happy that after 50 years he is recognized as one the main discover
> of the "Higgs boson". I am happy for Higgs too.
>
>
> The seminal papers suggesting the higgs-field were written independently
> about the same time by Higgs, by Englert and Brout, and also by Kibble,
> Gaulnik, and Hagen.  I've often thought the it came to called the higgs
> boson just because it's a lot easier to say "higgs" than "englert-brout" or
> "kibble-gaulnik-hagen".  I understand that Peter Higgs is a very nice,
> modest man and is a little embarassed by having the particle named after
> him, although he did develop the idea a little more than the others and is
> certainly deserving.
>
>
> But in my view, even more deserving are the thousands of engineers,
> technicians, and physicists who designed and built the LHC and the ATLAS
> and CMS detectors.  Surely the most amazing machine ever built.
>
>
> I agree. In a forum someone asked if the Nobel prize should not be given
> to those who made the LHC, and the answer was that they were too many ...
> I find unfair also that there is no post-mortem Nobel prize, as Robert
> Brout deserves it too, but then he died too early.
> Well, the mathematician's Field medal is worse, you have to be younger
> than 40!
>
> But all this is vanity. François Englert said that he was happy with the
> Nobel prize, but that he was still more happier from having done his
> fundamental research.
>
>
>
>
>
>  Now, the Nobel prize itself has been obscured by "Obama's peace prize",
> like if it was giving him the right to use drones to kill civilians, or to
> sign the NDAA ... Englert should have refuse it, perhaps, like Sartre in
> France or Perelman in Russia, ... I am not really serious, as it seems than
> the scientific Nobel prize is more seriously attributed.
>
>
> Fortunately.
>
> The Nobel Peace Prize has been wielded as a tool of political influence
> and has thereby become almost meaningless.  Obama got it for being a little
> less bellicose that George Bush.
>
>
> ... before his term!   (may be we are 

Re: And the 2013 Nobel Prize in Physics goes to…

[Bruno Marchal]

On 09 Oct 2013, at 22:22, meekerdb wrote:


On 10/9/2013 12:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:


On 08 Oct 2013, at 23:56, LizR wrote:



http://www.quantumdiaries.org/2013/10/08/and-the-2013-nobel-prize-in-physics-goes-to/

Today the 2013 Nobel Prize in Physics was awarded to François  
Englert (Université Libre de Bruxelles, Belgium) and Peter W.  
Higgs (University of Edinburgh, UK). The official citation is “for  
the theoretical discovery of a mechanism that contributes to our  
understanding of the origin of mass of subatomic particles, and  
which recently was confirmed through the discovery of the  
predicted fundamental particle, by the ATLAS and CMS experiments  
at CERN’s Large Hadron Collider.”



I know him very well. I begun my work in his team, with Robert  
Brout. He asked me how to apply QM in cosmology, and I refer to the  
MWI. He added some footnote in one of his papers, just referring to  
Everett's original work, without any detail. He didn't like this,  
but somehow understood it is hard to make sense of quantum  
cosmology without it.
I am happy that after 50 years he is recognized as one the main  
discover of the "Higgs boson". I am happy for Higgs too.


The seminal papers suggesting the higgs-field were written  
independently about the same time by Higgs, by Englert and Brout,  
and also by Kibble, Gaulnik, and Hagen.  I've often thought the it  
came to called the higgs boson just because it's a lot easier to say  
"higgs" than "englert-brout" or "kibble-gaulnik-hagen".  I  
understand that Peter Higgs is a very nice, modest man and is a  
little embarassed by having the particle named after him, although  
he did develop the idea a little more than the others and is  
certainly deserving.



But in my view, even more deserving are the thousands of engineers,  
technicians, and physicists who designed and built the LHC and the  
ATLAS and CMS detectors.  Surely the most amazing machine ever built.


I agree. In a forum someone asked if the Nobel prize should not be  
given to those who made the LHC, and the answer was that they were too  
many ...
I find unfair also that there is no post-mortem Nobel prize, as Robert  
Brout deserves it too, but then he died too early.
Well, the mathematician's Field medal is worse, you have to be younger  
than 40!


But all this is vanity. François Englert said that he was happy with  
the Nobel prize, but that he was still more happier from having done  
his fundamental research.








Now, the Nobel prize itself has been obscured by "Obama's peace  
prize", like if it was giving him the right to use drones to kill  
civilians, or to sign the NDAA ... Englert should have refuse it,  
perhaps, like Sartre in France or Perelman in Russia, ... I am not  
really serious, as it seems than the scientific Nobel prize is more  
seriously attributed.




Fortunately.

The Nobel Peace Prize has been wielded as a tool of political  
influence and has thereby become almost meaningless.  Obama got it  
for being a little less bellicose that George Bush.


... before his term!   (may be we are in a Gödel rotative universe,  
with time loops, in which case they could give the Nobel prize of  
physics, also before the research is done ... :)


Bruno



Brent
"Political satire became obsolete when Henry Kissinger was awarded  
the Nobel Peace Prize."

--- Tom Lehrer



http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/



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Re: And the 2013 Nobel Prize in Physics goes to…

[meekerdb]

On 10/9/2013 12:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:


On 08 Oct 2013, at 23:56, LizR wrote:



http://www.quantumdiaries.org/2013/10/08/and-the-2013-nobel-prize-in-physics-goes-to/

Today the 2013 Nobel Prize in Physics 
 was awarded to 
François Englert (Université Libre de Bruxelles, Belgium) and Peter W. Higgs 
(University of Edinburgh, UK). The official citation is “for the theoretical discovery 
of a mechanism that contributes to our understanding of the origin of mass of subatomic 
particles, and which recently was confirmed through the discovery of the predicted 
fundamental particle, by the ATLAS and CMS experiments at CERN’s Large Hadron Collider.”



I know him very well. I begun my work in his team, with Robert Brout. He asked me how to 
apply QM in cosmology, and I refer to the MWI. He added some footnote in one of his 
papers, just referring to Everett's original work, without any detail. He didn't like 
this, but somehow understood it is hard to make sense of quantum cosmology without it.
I am happy that after 50 years he is recognized as one the main discover of the "Higgs 
boson". I am happy for Higgs too.


The seminal papers suggesting the higgs-field were written independently about the same 
time by Higgs, by Englert and Brout, and also by Kibble, Gaulnik, and Hagen.  I've often 
thought the it came to called the higgs boson just because it's a lot easier to say 
"higgs" than "englert-brout" or "kibble-gaulnik-hagen".  I understand that Peter Higgs is 
a very nice, modest man and is a little embarassed by having the particle named after him, 
although he did develop the idea a little more than the others and is certainly deserving.



But in my view, even more deserving are the thousands of engineers, technicians, and 
physicists who designed and built the LHC and the ATLAS and CMS detectors.  Surely the 
most amazing machine ever built.




Now, the Nobel prize itself has been obscured by "Obama's peace prize", like if it was 
giving him the right to use drones to kill civilians, or to sign the NDAA ... Englert 
should have refuse it, perhaps, like Sartre in France or Perelman in Russia, ... I am 
not really serious, as it seems than the scientific Nobel prize is more seriously 
attributed.




Fortunately.

The Nobel Peace Prize has been wielded as a tool of political influence and has thereby 
become almost meaningless.  Obama got it for being a little less bellicose that George Bush.


Brent
"Political satire became obsolete when Henry Kissinger was awarded the Nobel Peace 
Prize."
--- Tom Lehrer

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Re: And the 2013 Nobel Prize in Physics goes to…

[Bruno Marchal]

On 08 Oct 2013, at 23:56, LizR wrote:



http://www.quantumdiaries.org/2013/10/08/and-the-2013-nobel-prize-in-physics-goes-to/

Today the 2013 Nobel Prize in Physics was awarded to François  
Englert (Université Libre de Bruxelles, Belgium) and Peter W. Higgs  
(University of Edinburgh, UK). The official citation is “for the  
theoretical discovery of a mechanism that contributes to our  
understanding of the origin of mass of subatomic particles, and  
which recently was confirmed through the discovery of the predicted  
fundamental particle, by the ATLAS and CMS experiments at CERN’s  
Large Hadron Collider.”



I know him very well. I begun my work in his team, with Robert Brout.  
He asked me how to apply QM in cosmology, and I refer to the MWI. He  
added some footnote in one of his papers, just referring to Everett's  
original work, without any detail. He didn't like this, but somehow  
understood it is hard to make sense of quantum cosmology without it.
I am happy that after 50 years he is recognized as one the main  
discover of the "Higgs boson". I am happy for Higgs too.


Now, the Nobel prize itself has been obscured by "Obama's peace  
prize", like if it was giving him the right to use drones to kill  
civilians, or to sign the NDAA ... Englert should have refuse it,  
perhaps, like Sartre in France or Perelman in Russia, ... I am not  
really serious, as it seems than the scientific Nobel prize is more  
seriously attributed.


Bruno


http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/



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