Re: Re: Maxwell on Metaphysics and Theology
On Sunday, October 7, 2012 8:58:53 AM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: > > On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 11:44 PM, Roger Clough > > > wrote: > > Hi Evgenii Rudnyi > > > > I know that, but his theory of electromagnetism is a physical theory, > > even if it's hard to pin down the extension property. > > > > Physical theories can tell us nothing about philosophy or mind or God, > > since they cannot deal with meaning. Physics is meaningless. > You are ideologically committed to say this. Another position is that > physics is the source of mind and hence all meaning. > To me the obvious solution is that the capacity to discern between subjective and objective sense is clearly more primitive than either physics or God. Physics or Arithmetic alone has no reason to make a mind, and God alone has no manifestation without some manner of experiencing his own awareness and will. Maxwell was right, he just was ahead of his time. His quote "‘*There is action and reaction between body and soul, but it is not of a kind in which energy passes from the one to the other,—as when a man pulls a trigger it is the gunpowder that projects the bullet, or when a pointsman shunts a train it is the rails that bear the thrust*.’" Is precisely, and I mean exactly what my model suggests. "*not of a kind in which energy passes from the one to the other"*. What he was reaching for here, I am certain, is what I have found in the anomalous symmetry of sense modalities. Electromagnetism is the extended view from the outside in - public orientation which is indirect, while sensorimotor phenomenology is the intended view from the inside out - private orientation which is direct. To understand how subjectivity and objectivity work together, we have to work both from the outside in and the inside out, starting from the middle, which is the event horizon where time 'folds' into space and the personal folds into the impersonal. Perception. The obstacles to this are that we mistake the impersonal (functions of bodies in space, cells, molecules) for the personal (feelings, experiences, qualia) so that we are compelled to explain one in terms of the other rather than seeing them as the simultaneous juxtapositions of each other. We conflate our lack of awareness of sub-personal experiences with the complexity of micro-impersonal functions. We think that the cell is producing the qualia that we see, or that the ideal of the qualia is meaninglessly represented by the functions of the cell, but the truth is that qualia is not produced, it is experienced. We aren't the experience of our brain any more than these words are the experience of your screen pixels. We are the experience *through *the human brain, body, family, species, planet, cells, molecules, etc. It's a completely other side of the universe and it works in exactly the opposite way of 'physics' or mathematics but at the same time physics and mathematics are only the impersonal, extended version of it. Physics and mathematics are logical, generic, universal, mechanistic, public, spatiotemporal. Subjectivity is trans-rational, signifying, proprietary, animistic, private. Can't anyone see that they are clearly juxtaposed as perpendicular conjugates? Craig > > > -- > Stathis Papaioannou > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/9oz63FSY-5sJ. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: Re: Maxwell on Metaphysics and Theology
Hi Stathis Papaioannou An atheist with any intelligence would agree with me because it's just logic. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 10/8/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Stathis Papaioannou Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-07, 08:58:22 Subject: Re: Re: Maxwell on Metaphysics and Theology On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 11:44 PM, Roger Clough wrote: > Hi Evgenii Rudnyi > > I know that, but his theory of electromagnetism is a physical theory, > even if it's hard to pin down the extension property. > > Physical theories can tell us nothing about philosophy or mind or God, > since they cannot deal with meaning. Physics is meaningless. You are ideologically committed to say this. Another position is that physics is the source of mind and hence all meaning. -- Stathis Papaioannou -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: Maxwell on Metaphysics and Theology
Hi Evgenii Rudnyi Yes. But alone, the equations have no human meaning. Each individual will invent that for himself. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 10/8/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Evgenii Rudnyi Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-07, 09:14:18 Subject: Re: Maxwell on Metaphysics and Theology On 07.10.2012 14:44 Roger Clough said the following: > Hi Evgenii Rudnyi > > I know that, but his theory of electromagnetism is a physical > theory, even if it's hard to pin down the extension property. > > Physical theories can tell us nothing about philosophy or mind or > God, since they cannot deal with meaning. Physics is meaningless. I am working with engineers and they simulate Maxwell equations to develop even better products. Hence physics brings meaning to minds of engineers. Evgenii -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Maxwell on Metaphysics and Theology
On 07 Oct 2012, at 15:14, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 07.10.2012 14:44 Roger Clough said the following: Hi Evgenii Rudnyi I know that, but his theory of electromagnetism is a physical theory, even if it's hard to pin down the extension property. Physical theories can tell us nothing about philosophy or mind or God, since they cannot deal with meaning. Physics is meaningless. I am working with engineers and they simulate Maxwell equations to develop even better products. Hence physics brings meaning to minds of engineers. Come on! Then you can say that porn gives mind to sex amateur. It was clearly not the sense asked by Roger. The question is how physics can explain the mind. A priori, with comp, physics can do that, as physics can explain the Turing universality of some system, and so can use the comp explanation for the mind. But then such an explanation prevent physics to explain matter, and it is matter which becomes the complex problem, as we have to justify the laws of physics by the statistic on the dreams in arithmetic. Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Maxwell on Metaphysics and Theology
On 07 Oct 2012, at 14:44, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Evgenii Rudnyi I know that, but his theory of electromagnetism is a physical theory, even if it's hard to pin down the extension property. Physical theories can tell us nothing about philosophy or mind or God, since they cannot deal with meaning. Physics is meaningless. This is not necessarily the case, as physics is Turing universal. The problem is that physics has to be derived from comp. Bruno Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 10/7/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Evgenii Rudnyi Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-07, 08:38:14 Subject: Re: Maxwell on Metaphysics and Theology On 07.10.2012 14:04 Roger Clough said the following: Hi Evgenii Rudnyi He's got it all mixed up. Physics deals with objects extended in space. Things. Metaphysics deals with inextended objects. Ideas. Yet, he was able to develop the theory of electromagnetism. Evgenii -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Maxwell on Metaphysics and Theology
On 07.10.2012 14:44 Roger Clough said the following: Hi Evgenii Rudnyi I know that, but his theory of electromagnetism is a physical theory, even if it's hard to pin down the extension property. Physical theories can tell us nothing about philosophy or mind or God, since they cannot deal with meaning. Physics is meaningless. I am working with engineers and they simulate Maxwell equations to develop even better products. Hence physics brings meaning to minds of engineers. Evgenii -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: Maxwell on Metaphysics and Theology
On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 11:44 PM, Roger Clough wrote: > Hi Evgenii Rudnyi > > I know that, but his theory of electromagnetism is a physical theory, > even if it's hard to pin down the extension property. > > Physical theories can tell us nothing about philosophy or mind or God, > since they cannot deal with meaning. Physics is meaningless. You are ideologically committed to say this. Another position is that physics is the source of mind and hence all meaning. -- Stathis Papaioannou -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: Maxwell on Metaphysics and Theology
Hi Evgenii Rudnyi I know that, but his theory of electromagnetism is a physical theory, even if it's hard to pin down the extension property. Physical theories can tell us nothing about philosophy or mind or God, since they cannot deal with meaning. Physics is meaningless. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 10/7/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Evgenii Rudnyi Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-07, 08:38:14 Subject: Re: Maxwell on Metaphysics and Theology On 07.10.2012 14:04 Roger Clough said the following: > Hi Evgenii Rudnyi > > He's got it all mixed up. > > Physics deals with objects extended in space. Things. Metaphysics > deals with inextended objects. Ideas. > Yet, he was able to develop the theory of electromagnetism. Evgenii -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Maxwell on Metaphysics and Theology
On 07.10.2012 14:04 Roger Clough said the following: Hi Evgenii Rudnyi He's got it all mixed up. Physics deals with objects extended in space. Things. Metaphysics deals with inextended objects. Ideas. Yet, he was able to develop the theory of electromagnetism. Evgenii -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Maxwell on Metaphysics and Theology
Hi Evgenii Rudnyi He's got it all mixed up. Physics deals with objects extended in space. Things. Metaphysics deals with inextended objects. Ideas. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 10/7/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Evgenii Rudnyi Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-06, 13:25:53 Subject: Maxwell on Metaphysics and Theology I have read a nice paper Jordi Cat Into the ?egions of physical and metaphysical chaos?: Maxwell? scientific metaphysics and natural philosophy of action (agency, determinacy and necessity from theology, moral philosophy and history to mathematics, theory and experiment) Studies in History and Philosophy of Science 43 (2012) 91?104 It was interesting to see how questions discussed at this list (physics, theology, mind and body) have been answered by Maxwell. The abstract of the paper: "Maxwell? writings exhibit an enduring preoccupation with the role of metaphysics in the advancement of science, especially the progress of physics. I examine the question of the distinction and the proper relation between physics and metaphysics and the way in which the question relies on key notions that bring together much of Maxwell? natural philosophy, theoretical and experimental. Previous discussions of his attention to metaphysics have been confined to specific issues and polemics such as conceptions of matter and the problem of free will. I suggest a unifying pattern based on a generalized philosophical perspective and varying expressions, although never a systematic or articulated philosophical doctrine, but at least a theme of action and active powers, natural and human, intellectual and material, with sources and grounds in theology, moral philosophy and historical argument. While science was developing in the direction of professional specialization and alongside the rise of materialism, Maxwell held on to conservative intellectual outlook, but one that included a rich scientific life and held science as part of a rich intellectual, cultural and material life. His philosophical outlook integrated his science with and captured the new Victorian culture of construction and work, political, economic, artistic and engineering." Evgenii -- http://blog.rudnyi.ru/2012/10/maxwell-on-metaphysics-and-theology.html -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Maxwell on Metaphysics and Theology
Hi Evgenii Rudnyi Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 10/7/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Evgenii Rudnyi Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-06, 13:25:53 Subject: Maxwell on Metaphysics and Theology I have read a nice paper Jordi Cat Into the ?egions of physical and metaphysical chaos?: Maxwell? scientific metaphysics and natural philosophy of action (agency, determinacy and necessity from theology, moral philosophy and history to mathematics, theory and experiment) Studies in History and Philosophy of Science 43 (2012) 91?104 It was interesting to see how questions discussed at this list (physics, theology, mind and body) have been answered by Maxwell. The abstract of the paper: "Maxwell? writings exhibit an enduring preoccupation with the role of metaphysics in the advancement of science, especially the progress of physics. I examine the question of the distinction and the proper relation between physics and metaphysics and the way in which the question relies on key notions that bring together much of Maxwell? natural philosophy, theoretical and experimental. Previous discussions of his attention to metaphysics have been confined to specific issues and polemics such as conceptions of matter and the problem of free will. I suggest a unifying pattern based on a generalized philosophical perspective and varying expressions, although never a systematic or articulated philosophical doctrine, but at least a theme of action and active powers, natural and human, intellectual and material, with sources and grounds in theology, moral philosophy and historical argument. While science was developing in the direction of professional specialization and alongside the rise of materialism, Maxwell held on to conservative intellectual outlook, but one that included a rich scientific life and held science as part of a rich intellectual, cultural and material life. His philosophical outlook integrated his science with and captured the new Victorian culture of construction and work, political, economic, artistic and engineering." Evgenii -- http://blog.rudnyi.ru/2012/10/maxwell-on-metaphysics-and-theology.html -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
