Re: Powerful antibiotics discovered using AI

[Bruno Marchal]

> On 22 Feb 2020, at 09:26, Philip Thrift  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Example:
> 
> 
> Here is the code for the Standard Model. What if it were 1 times bigger?

It would be 1 times more an indication that we miss the theory, or it could 
mean that the history measure in arithmetic is very complicated. But whatever 
physical theory you imagine true, if you assume Mechanism (artificial digital  
brain survival), then that Lagrangian has been to be extracted from elementary 
arithmetic, or even just from the theory of combinator, which is basically only 
the axiom Kxy = x, and Sxyz = xz(yz).

There are already some derivation of quantum mechanics and relativity from 
quantum logic (like Finkelstein, see the book by S. A. Selesnick on this 
“Quanta, Logic and Space-time”, World Scientific, 1998).

I work below, deriving quantum logic from number (and their self-reference 
abilities).

Bruno



> 
> 
> Lagrangian standard model
> 
> 
> 
> @philipthrift
> 
> On Saturday, February 22, 2020 at 1:53:28 AM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote:
> 
> Name one thing that is explained by science.
> 
> Same thing: Name one thing that is explained (by science or) any (other) 
> profession.
> 
> @philipthrift
> 
> On Friday, February 21, 2020 at 5:14:53 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote:
> Science has always aimed at understanding.  Using ML to solve a problem is 
> more a matter of technology and engineering.  But this is nothing new.  
> Technology has often led and science followed.   Very good stone arches were 
> built long before stress analysis was developed.  And as Oliver Heaviside 
> quipped, "I'll not refuse my dinner because I don't understand the digestive 
> process."
> 
> Brent
> 
> On 2/21/2020 12:58 PM, Philip Thrift wrote:
>> 
>> A Deep Learning Approach to Antibiotic Discovery
>> https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(20)30102-1 
>> 
>> 
>> This could legitimately called a paradigm shift in scientific methodology.
>> 
>> @philipthrift
>> 
>> 
>> On Friday, February 21, 2020 at 12:57:30 PM UTC-6, John Clark wrote:
>> Powerful antibiotics discovered using AI 
>> 
>> 
>> John K Clark
> 
> 
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>  
> .

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Re: Powerful antibiotics discovered using AI

[Philip Thrift]

On Saturday, February 22, 2020 at 2:30:45 PM UTC-6, John Clark wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 2:31 PM Philip Thrift  > wrote:
>
>>
>>  
>> A theory T_b in a language L_b can be explained in terms of a theory  T_a 
>> in a language L_a if T_b/L_b can be *translated into* or *compiled to* 
>> or *interpreted by* or *derived from* T_a/T_b.
>
>  
>
That's not you own words and it's not as useful as my meaning because your 
> quotation allows for the possibility the explanation could make things more 
> complex not simpler, and if that were true then explanations wouldn't have 
> any point, Apparently even you don't agree with that quotation because you 
> indicated science can't explain anything, and that is obviously untrue 
> under either meaning of the word. And next time let's hear your own words 
> rather than some quotation you found on Google 30 seconds ago.
>
> John K Clark
>



That which I typed above is *my own words* as I typed them originally this 
morning out of my own head!

Your problem us that you have a serious reading comprehension problem.

@phiipthrift

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Re: Powerful antibiotics discovered using AI

[John Clark]

On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 2:31 PM Philip Thrift  wrote:

>
>
> On Saturday, February 22, 2020 at 1:20:28 PM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, February 22, 2020 at 9:00:08 AM UTC-6, John Clark wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 2:53 AM Philip Thrift 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > *Name one thing that is explained by science.*
>>>
>>>
>>> Explain what you mean by explain. I'll tell you what I mean by the word,
>>> describing something complex in terms of something simpler so well that
>>> accurate predictions can be made.
>>>
>>> *> Here is the code for the Standard Model.* [lots of math follows]
>>>
>>>
>>> There is no doubt about it, that is one hell of a lot of complex stuff,
>>> but it's not nearly as complex as all the stuff the Standard Model can
>>> "explain" as I define the word in the above.
>>>
>>> > *What if it were 1 times bigger?*
>>>
>>>
>>> It would still be cheap at twice the price.
>>>
>>> John K Clark
>>>
>>

Explain what you mean by explain. I'll tell you what I mean by the word,
>> describing something complex in terms of something simpler so well that
>> accurate predictions can be made.
>
>
>
> A theory T_b in a language L_b can be explained in terms of a theory  T_a
> in a language L_a if T_b/L_b can be *translated into* or *compiled to* or 
> *interpreted
> by* or *derived from* T_a/T_b.


That's not you own words and it's not as useful as my meaning because your
quotation allows for the possibility the explanation could make things more
complex not simpler, and if that were true then explanations wouldn't have
any point, Apparently even you don't agree with that quotation because you
indicated science can't explain anything, and that is obviously untrue
under either meaning of the word. And next time let's hear your own words
rather than some quotation you found on Google 30 seconds ago.

John K Clark

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Re: Powerful antibiotics discovered using AI

['Brent Meeker' via Everything List]

On 2/21/2020 11:53 PM, Philip Thrift wrote:


Name one thing that is explained by science.


Why you can't build a perpetual motion machine.  Why the Sun comes up in 
the morning.  Why cyanide will kill you.  Why radiation causes mutations


Brent



Same thing: Name one thing that is explained (by science or) any 
(other) profession.


@philipthrift

On Friday, February 21, 2020 at 5:14:53 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote:

Science has always aimed at understanding.  Using ML to solve a
problem is more a matter of technology and engineering.  But this
is nothing new.  Technology has often led and science followed.  
Very good stone arches were built long before stress analysis was
developed.  And as Oliver Heaviside quipped, "I'll not refuse my
dinner because I don't understand the digestive process."

Brent

On 2/21/2020 12:58 PM, Philip Thrift wrote:


*A Deep Learning Approach to Antibiotic Discovery*
https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(20)30102-1


This could legitimately called a paradigm shift in scientific
methodology.

@philipthrift


On Friday, February 21, 2020 at 12:57:30 PM UTC-6, John Clark wrote:

Powerful antibiotics discovered using AI



John K Clark



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Re: Powerful antibiotics discovered using AI

[Philip Thrift]

On Saturday, February 22, 2020 at 1:20:28 PM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote:
>
>
>
> On Saturday, February 22, 2020 at 9:00:08 AM UTC-6, John Clark wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 2:53 AM Philip Thrift  wrote:
>>
>> > *Name one thing that is explained by science.*
>>
>>
>> Explain what you mean by explain. I'll tell you what I mean by the word, 
>> describing something complex in terms of something simpler so well that 
>> accurate predictions can be made.
>>
>> *> Here is the code for the Standard Model.* [lots of math follows]
>>
>>
>> There is no doubt about it, that is one hell of a lot of complex stuff, 
>> but it's not nearly as complex as all the stuff the Standard Model can 
>> "explain" as I define the word in the above. 
>>
>> > *What if it were 1 times bigger?*
>>
>>
>> It would still be cheap at twice the price.
>>
>> John K Clark
>>
>
>
> A theory T_b in a language L_b can be explained in terms of a theory  T_a 
> in a language L_a if T_b/L_b can be *translated into* or *compiled to* or 
> *interpreted 
> by* or *derived from* T_a/T_b.
>
> For b = chemistry and a = physics there's a problem:
>
> Moreover, Arriaga, Fortin and Lombardi argue that while the QTAIM [Quantum 
> Theory of Atoms In Molecules] manages to ‘provide a rigorous definition of 
> the chemical bond and of atoms in a molecule, it appeals to concepts that 
> are unacceptable in the quantum-chemical context’, thus failing to 
> sufficiently support the reduction of chemistry to quantum mechanics 
> (Arriaga et al. 2019: 125). Van Brakel makes a similar point, arguing that 
> the QTAIM works only after postulating facts from chemistry (van Brakel 
> 2014: 32), thus rendering it insufficient for the support of chemistry’s 
> reduction to quantum mechanics.
>
> https://www.iep.utm.edu/red-chem/#SH3a
>
> @philipthrift
>



The whole article is very good:

Reduction and Emergence in Chemistry
Vanessa A. Seifert (https://www.vanessa-seifert.com/)
https://www.iep.utm.edu/red-chem/

@philipthrift 

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Re: Powerful antibiotics discovered using AI

[Philip Thrift]

On Saturday, February 22, 2020 at 9:00:08 AM UTC-6, John Clark wrote:
>
> On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 2:53 AM Philip Thrift  > wrote:
>
> > *Name one thing that is explained by science.*
>
>
> Explain what you mean by explain. I'll tell you what I mean by the word, 
> describing something complex in terms of something simpler so well that 
> accurate predictions can be made.
>
> *> Here is the code for the Standard Model.* [lots of math follows]
>
>
> There is no doubt about it, that is one hell of a lot of complex stuff, 
> but it's not nearly as complex as all the stuff the Standard Model can 
> "explain" as I define the word in the above. 
>
> > *What if it were 1 times bigger?*
>
>
> It would still be cheap at twice the price.
>
> John K Clark
>


A theory T_b in a language L_b can be explained in terms of a theory  T_a 
in a language L_a if T_b/L_b can be *translated into* or *compiled to* or 
*interpreted 
by* or *derived from* T_a/T_b.

For b = chemistry and a = physics there's a problem:

Moreover, Arriaga, Fortin and Lombardi argue that while the QTAIM [Quantum 
Theory of Atoms In Molecules] manages to ‘provide a rigorous definition of 
the chemical bond and of atoms in a molecule, it appeals to concepts that 
are unacceptable in the quantum-chemical context’, thus failing to 
sufficiently support the reduction of chemistry to quantum mechanics 
(Arriaga et al. 2019: 125). Van Brakel makes a similar point, arguing that 
the QTAIM works only after postulating facts from chemistry (van Brakel 
2014: 32), thus rendering it insufficient for the support of chemistry’s 
reduction to quantum mechanics.

https://www.iep.utm.edu/red-chem/#SH3a

@philipthrift

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Re: Powerful antibiotics discovered using AI

[John Clark]

On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 2:53 AM Philip Thrift  wrote:

> *Name one thing that is explained by science.*


Explain what you mean by explain. I'll tell you what I mean by the word,
describing something complex in terms of something simpler so well that
accurate predictions can be made.

*> Here is the code for the Standard Model.* [lots of math follows]


There is no doubt about it, that is one hell of a lot of complex stuff, but
it's not nearly as complex as all the stuff the Standard Model can
"explain" as I define the word in the above.

> *What if it were 1 times bigger?*


It would still be cheap at twice the price.

John K Clark

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Re: Powerful antibiotics discovered using AI

[John Clark]

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 Brent Meeker' via Everything List <
everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:

*> this is nothing new.*


And so just before he was vaporized the last surviving human turned to the
Jupiter Brain and said "I still think I'm smarter than you".

John K Clark

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Re: Powerful antibiotics discovered using AI

[Philip Thrift]

Example:


Here is the code for the Standard Model. What if it were 1 times bigger?

[image: Equations image]

Lagrangian standard model


@philipthrift

On Saturday, February 22, 2020 at 1:53:28 AM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote:
>
>
> Name one thing that is explained by science.
>
> Same thing: Name one thing that is explained (by science or) any (other) 
> profession.
>
> @philipthrift
>
> On Friday, February 21, 2020 at 5:14:53 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote:
>>
>> Science has always aimed at understanding.  Using ML to solve a problem 
>> is more a matter of technology and engineering.  But this is nothing new.  
>> Technology has often led and science followed.   Very good stone arches 
>> were built long before stress analysis was developed.  And as Oliver 
>> Heaviside quipped, "I'll not refuse my dinner because I don't understand 
>> the digestive process."
>>
>> Brent
>>
>> On 2/21/2020 12:58 PM, Philip Thrift wrote:
>>
>>
>> *A Deep Learning Approach to Antibiotic Discovery*
>> https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(20)30102-1
>>
>> This could legitimately called a paradigm shift in scientific methodology.
>>
>> @philipthrift
>>
>>
>> On Friday, February 21, 2020 at 12:57:30 PM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: 
>>>
>>> Powerful antibiotics discovered using AI 
>>> 
>>>
>>> John K Clark
>>>
>>
>>

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Re: Powerful antibiotics discovered using AI

[Philip Thrift]

Name one thing that is explained by science.

Same thing: Name one thing that is explained (by science or) any (other) 
profession.

@philipthrift

On Friday, February 21, 2020 at 5:14:53 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote:
>
> Science has always aimed at understanding.  Using ML to solve a problem is 
> more a matter of technology and engineering.  But this is nothing new.  
> Technology has often led and science followed.   Very good stone arches 
> were built long before stress analysis was developed.  And as Oliver 
> Heaviside quipped, "I'll not refuse my dinner because I don't understand 
> the digestive process."
>
> Brent
>
> On 2/21/2020 12:58 PM, Philip Thrift wrote:
>
>
> *A Deep Learning Approach to Antibiotic Discovery*
> https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(20)30102-1
>
> This could legitimately called a paradigm shift in scientific methodology.
>
> @philipthrift
>
>
> On Friday, February 21, 2020 at 12:57:30 PM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: 
>>
>> Powerful antibiotics discovered using AI 
>> 
>>
>> John K Clark
>>
>
>

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Re: Powerful antibiotics discovered using AI

[Lawrence Crowell]

This is pretty remarkable. Blood from mice is being taken to see if this 
has indeed removed a bacteria. 

LC

On Friday, February 21, 2020 at 12:57:30 PM UTC-6, John Clark wrote:
>
> Powerful antibiotics discovered using AI 
> 
>
> John K Clark
>

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Re: Powerful antibiotics discovered using AI

['Brent Meeker' via Everything List]

Science has always aimed at understanding.  Using ML to solve a problem 
is more a matter of technology and engineering.  But this is nothing 
new.  Technology has often led and science followed.   Very good stone 
arches were built long before stress analysis was developed.  And as 
Oliver Heaviside quipped, "I'll not refuse my dinner because I don't 
understand the digestive process."


Brent

On 2/21/2020 12:58 PM, Philip Thrift wrote:


*A Deep Learning Approach to Antibiotic Discovery*
https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(20)30102-1

This could legitimately called a paradigm shift in scientific methodology.

@philipthrift


On Friday, February 21, 2020 at 12:57:30 PM UTC-6, John Clark wrote:

Powerful antibiotics discovered using AI



John K Clark

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Re: Powerful antibiotics discovered using AI

[Philip Thrift]

*A Deep Learning Approach to Antibiotic Discovery*
https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(20)30102-1

This could legitimately called a paradigm shift in scientific methodology.

@philipthrift


On Friday, February 21, 2020 at 12:57:30 PM UTC-6, John Clark wrote:
>
> Powerful antibiotics discovered using AI 
> 
>
> John K Clark
>

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Re: Powerful antibiotics discovered using AI

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

I have been waiting for this for a long time. Machine intel actually 
discovering and more importantly, innovating new things. I prefer Narrow Ai 
over Minsky's guy in a box. I'd rather have better energy systems, medicines, 
and space ships, than go all aquiver over smart algorithms, and HAL-9000. 


-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, Feb 21, 2020 1:56 pm
Subject: Powerful antibiotics discovered using AI

Powerful antibiotics discovered using AI

John K Clark-- 
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