Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What must the perceiver be like?
Hey, I didn't know either until I looked it up just now. I just know that there are good and bad people everywhere, under every form of government and ideology, religion and secular category. On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:43:45 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: > > Hi Craig Weinberg > > OK, yuh got me. > > > Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net > 9/11/2012 > Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him > so that everything could function." > > - Receiving the following content - > *From:* Craig Weinberg > *Receiver:* everything-list > *Time:* 2012-09-11, 10:36:50 > *Subject:* Re: Re: Re: Re: What must the perceiver be like? > > > > On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:06:18 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: >> >> Hi Craig Weinberg >> >> You're certainly welcome to your beliefs. >> >> OK, I was wrong about forgiving your neighbor, >> but I don't think that the Koran asks you to love your neighbor. >> > > "Worship Allah and join none with him (in worship); and do good to > parents, kinsfolk, orphans, the poor, the neighbor who is near of kin, the > neighbor who is stranger, the companion by your side, ... "[ Quran, chapter > 4, verse 36] > > Loving your neighbor is not about sending Valentines to strangers, it's > just about not being prejudiced. It's the timeless wisdom of the Golden > Rule - 'don't forget that other people are just like you and you are just > like them.'. It's basically a summary of Liberal Socialism. > > Craig > > >> >> Yes, I've travelled a lot. >> >> >> Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net >> 9/11/2012 >> Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him >> so that everything could function." >> >> - Receiving the following content - >> *From:* Craig Weinberg >> *Receiver:* everything-list >> *Time:* 2012-09-11, 09:48:04 >> *Subject:* Re: Re: Re: What must the perceiver be like? >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 9:10:46 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: >>> >>> Hi Craig Weinberg >>> >>> But the universe IS created. >>> >> >> I can say that God IS created too. Here goes: God IS created. >> >> Whatever created the universe would have to also be the universe, or an >> arbitrary conceptual partition thereof. >> >> >>> >>> I believe that Satan wrote the Koran, but not the Bible, >>> >> >> Hahahaha. Well that works out nicely for you then. No cognitive bias >> there. >> >> >> >>> for the Bible asks us to love and forgive each other. >>> Writing that would burn the Devil's fingers. >>> >> >> Haha, why, because malicious predators aren't allowed to suggest that >> their prey be meek and mild? You don't think this message would come in >> handy in Bronze Age societies for establishing political order under a >> priesthood class on behalf of military leaders? Is the Devil a wolf that is >> forbidden to wear sheep's clothing? You think that the Devil could tempt >> and lie to people by announcing that he is the Devil? If I were the Devil, >> I would be most interested in recruiting priests, police, judges, teachers, >> politicians, businessmen, etc. What would be the point of tempting >> degenerate sinners who I already own? >> >> >>> So the koran seems to omit the part about loving >>> and forgiving each other. >>> >> >> Does it? I haven't read the Koran. A brief Googling reveals: >> >> >> 锟斤拷. But if you pardon and exonerate and forgive, Allah is >> Ever-Forgiving, Most Merciful. [Qur锟�n, 64: 14] >> >> 锟�old to forgiveness, command what is right, and turn away from the >> ignorant. [Qur锟� n, 7:199] >> >> 锟斤拷 They should rather pardon and overlook. Would you not love Allah to >> forgive you? Allah is Ever-Forgiving, Most Merciful. [Qur锟� n, 24:22] >> >> Have you traveled much Roger? I think it makes it easier to see how >> biased our minds are by default just from being in the same place around >> the same kinds of people. >> >> Craig >> >> >>> >>> >>> Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net >>> 9/11/2012 >>> Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him >>> so that everything could function." >>> >>> - R
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What must the perceiver be like?
Hi Craig Weinberg OK, yuh got me. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 9/11/2012 Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so that everything could function." - Receiving the following content - From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-11, 10:36:50 Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: What must the perceiver be like? On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:06:18 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg You're certainly welcome to your beliefs. OK, I was wrong about forgiving your neighbor, but I don't think that the Koran asks you to love your neighbor. "Worship Allah and join none with him (in worship); and do good to parents, kinsfolk, orphans, the poor, the neighbor who is near of kin, the neighbor who is stranger, the companion by your side, ... "[ Quran, chapter 4, verse 36] Loving your neighbor is not about sending Valentines to strangers, it's just about not being prejudiced. It's the timeless wisdom of the Golden Rule - 'don't forget that other people are just like you and you are just like them.'. It's basically a summary of Liberal Socialism. Craig Yes, I've travelled a lot. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 9/11/2012 Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so that everything could function." - Receiving the following content ----- From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-11, 09:48:04 Subject: Re: Re: Re: What must the perceiver be like? On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 9:10:46 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg But the universe IS created. I can say that God IS created too. Here goes: God IS created. Whatever created the universe would have to also be the universe, or an arbitrary conceptual partition thereof. I believe that Satan wrote the Koran, but not the Bible, Hahahaha. Well that works out nicely for you then. No cognitive bias there. for the Bible asks us to love and forgive each other. Writing that would burn the Devil's fingers. Haha, why, because malicious predators aren't allowed to suggest that their prey be meek and mild? You don't think this message would come in handy in Bronze Age societies for establishing political order under a priesthood class on behalf of military leaders? Is the Devil a wolf that is forbidden to wear sheep's clothing? You think that the Devil could tempt and lie to people by announcing that he is the Devil? If I were the Devil, I would be most interested in recruiting priests, police, judges, teachers, politicians, businessmen, etc. What would be the point of tempting degenerate sinners who I already own? So the koran seems to omit the part about loving and forgiving each other. Does it? I haven't read the Koran. A brief Googling reveals: ???. But if you pardon and exonerate and forgive, Allah is Ever-Forgiving, Most Merciful. [Qur? n, 64: 14] ? old to forgiveness, command what is right, and turn away from the ignorant. [Qur? n, 7:199] ??? They should rather pardon and overlook. Would you not love Allah to forgive you? Allah is Ever-Forgiving, Most Merciful. [Qur? n, 24:22] Have you traveled much Roger? I think it makes it easier to see how biased our minds are by default just from being in the same place around the same kinds of people. Craig Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 9/11/2012 Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so that everything could function." - Receiving the following content - From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-11, 08:52:16 Subject: Re: Re: What must the perceiver be like? Hi Roger, On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 8:36:47 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg The Creator is not created. So no problem. Why not just say The Universe is not created. So no problem? What does the idea of an uncreated Creator add that has any explanatory power? Would the idea of a Creator seem obvious if the Bible didn't exist? What if you found out that the Bible was actually written by people's demons who mixed truth with lies over centuries to cause confusion, oppression, and cruelty. If I were Satan, why wouldn't I tell people that I am God and make them write a book which causes fear, superstition, and misery (even if the cost is that it has some very good side effects as well)? Not to suggest that you doubt your faith, but logically, the idea of a Bible seems contrary to the purposes of a Creator who endows his creations with direct capacities to make sense of his creation (including themselves). Does he want us to know he exists or doesn't he? If so, why write a bunch of crazy ambiguous scriptures that vary from place to place? If not, why allow such blasphemous confusions to thrive? Craig -- You received this message bec
Re: Re: Re: Re: What must the perceiver be like?
On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:06:18 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: > > Hi Craig Weinberg > > You're certainly welcome to your beliefs. > > OK, I was wrong about forgiving your neighbor, > but I don't think that the Koran asks you to love your neighbor. > "Worship Allah and join none with him (in worship); and do good to parents, kinsfolk, orphans, the poor, the neighbor who is near of kin, the neighbor who is stranger, the companion by your side, ... "[ Quran, chapter 4, verse 36] Loving your neighbor is not about sending Valentines to strangers, it's just about not being prejudiced. It's the timeless wisdom of the Golden Rule - 'don't forget that other people are just like you and you are just like them.'. It's basically a summary of Liberal Socialism. Craig > > Yes, I've travelled a lot. > > > Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net > 9/11/2012 > Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him > so that everything could function." > > - Receiving the following content ----- > *From:* Craig Weinberg > *Receiver:* everything-list > *Time:* 2012-09-11, 09:48:04 > *Subject:* Re: Re: Re: What must the perceiver be like? > > > > On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 9:10:46 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: >> >> Hi Craig Weinberg >> >> But the universe IS created. >> > > I can say that God IS created too. Here goes: God IS created. > > Whatever created the universe would have to also be the universe, or an > arbitrary conceptual partition thereof. > > >> >> I believe that Satan wrote the Koran, but not the Bible, >> > > Hahahaha. Well that works out nicely for you then. No cognitive bias there. > > > >> for the Bible asks us to love and forgive each other. >> Writing that would burn the Devil's fingers. >> > > Haha, why, because malicious predators aren't allowed to suggest that > their prey be meek and mild? You don't think this message would come in > handy in Bronze Age societies for establishing political order under a > priesthood class on behalf of military leaders? Is the Devil a wolf that is > forbidden to wear sheep's clothing? You think that the Devil could tempt > and lie to people by announcing that he is the Devil? If I were the Devil, > I would be most interested in recruiting priests, police, judges, teachers, > politicians, businessmen, etc. What would be the point of tempting > degenerate sinners who I already own? > > >> So the koran seems to omit the part about loving >> and forgiving each other. >> > > Does it? I haven't read the Koran. A brief Googling reveals: > > > 锟斤拷. But if you pardon and exonerate and forgive, Allah is Ever-Forgiving, > Most Merciful.� [Qur锟�n, 64: 14] > > 锟�old to forgiveness, command what is right, and turn away from the > ignorant.� [Qur锟�n, 7:199] > > 锟斤拷 They should rather pardon and overlook. Would you not love Allah to > forgive you? Allah is Ever-Forgiving, Most Merciful.� [Qur锟�n, 24:22] > > Have you traveled much Roger? I think it makes it easier to see how biased > our minds are by default just from being in the same place around the same > kinds of people. > > Craig > > >> >> >> Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net >> 9/11/2012 >> Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him >> so that everything could function." >> >> - Receiving the following content - >> *From:* Craig Weinberg >> *Receiver:* everything-list >> *Time:* 2012-09-11, 08:52:16 >> *Subject:* Re: Re: What must the perceiver be like? >> >> Hi Roger, >> >> On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 8:36:47 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: >>> >>> Hi Craig Weinberg >>> >>> The Creator is not created. So no problem. >>> >> >> Why not just say The Universe is not created. So no problem? >> >> What does the idea of an uncreated Creator add that has any explanatory >> power? Would the idea of a Creator seem obvious if the Bible didn't exist? >> >> What if you found out that the Bible was actually written by people's >> demons who mixed truth with lies over centuries to cause confusion, >> oppression, and cruelty. If I were Satan, why wouldn't I tell people that I >> am God and make them write a book which causes fear, superstition, and >> misery (even if the cost is that it has some very good side effects as >> well)? Not to suggest that you doubt your faith, but logic
Re: Re: Re: Re: What must the perceiver be like?
Hi Craig Weinberg You're certainly welcome to your beliefs. OK, I was wrong about forgiving your neighbor, but I don't think that the Koran asks you to love your neighbor. Yes, I've travelled a lot. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 9/11/2012 Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so that everything could function." - Receiving the following content - From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-11, 09:48:04 Subject: Re: Re: Re: What must the perceiver be like? On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 9:10:46 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg But the universe IS created. I can say that God IS created too. Here goes: God IS created. Whatever created the universe would have to also be the universe, or an arbitrary conceptual partition thereof. I believe that Satan wrote the Koran, but not the Bible, Hahahaha. Well that works out nicely for you then. No cognitive bias there. for the Bible asks us to love and forgive each other. Writing that would burn the Devil's fingers. Haha, why, because malicious predators aren't allowed to suggest that their prey be meek and mild? You don't think this message would come in handy in Bronze Age societies for establishing political order under a priesthood class on behalf of military leaders? Is the Devil a wolf that is forbidden to wear sheep's clothing? You think that the Devil could tempt and lie to people by announcing that he is the Devil? If I were the Devil, I would be most interested in recruiting priests, police, judges, teachers, politicians, businessmen, etc. What would be the point of tempting degenerate sinners who I already own? So the koran seems to omit the part about loving and forgiving each other. Does it? I haven't read the Koran. A brief Googling reveals: ?. But if you pardon and exonerate and forgive, Allah is Ever-Forgiving, Most Merciful.? [Qur?n, 64: 14] ?old to forgiveness, command what is right, and turn away from the ignorant.? [Qur?n, 7:199] ? They should rather pardon and overlook. Would you not love Allah to forgive you? Allah is Ever-Forgiving, Most Merciful.? [Qur?n, 24:22] Have you traveled much Roger? I think it makes it easier to see how biased our minds are by default just from being in the same place around the same kinds of people. Craig Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 9/11/2012 Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so that everything could function." - Receiving the following content - From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-11, 08:52:16 Subject: Re: Re: What must the perceiver be like? Hi Roger, On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 8:36:47 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg The Creator is not created. So no problem. Why not just say The Universe is not created. So no problem? What does the idea of an uncreated Creator add that has any explanatory power? Would the idea of a Creator seem obvious if the Bible didn't exist? What if you found out that the Bible was actually written by people's demons who mixed truth with lies over centuries to cause confusion, oppression, and cruelty. If I were Satan, why wouldn't I tell people that I am God and make them write a book which causes fear, superstition, and misery (even if the cost is that it has some very good side effects as well)? Not to suggest that you doubt your faith, but logically, the idea of a Bible seems contrary to the purposes of a Creator who endows his creations with direct capacities to make sense of his creation (including themselves). Does he want us to know he exists or doesn't he? If so, why write a bunch of crazy ambiguous scriptures that vary from place to place? If not, why allow such blasphemous confusions to thrive? Craig -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/s2L3GTGAPpgJ. To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/81MGgWxT2k0J. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to t
Re: Re: Re: What must the perceiver be like?
On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 9:10:46 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: > > Hi Craig Weinberg > > But the universe IS created. > I can say that God IS created too. Here goes: God IS created. Whatever created the universe would have to also be the universe, or an arbitrary conceptual partition thereof. > > I believe that Satan wrote the Koran, but not the Bible, > Hahahaha. Well that works out nicely for you then. No cognitive bias there. > for the Bible asks us to love and forgive each other. > Writing that would burn the Devil's fingers. > Haha, why, because malicious predators aren't allowed to suggest that their prey be meek and mild? You don't think this message would come in handy in Bronze Age societies for establishing political order under a priesthood class on behalf of military leaders? Is the Devil a wolf that is forbidden to wear sheep's clothing? You think that the Devil could tempt and lie to people by announcing that he is the Devil? If I were the Devil, I would be most interested in recruiting priests, police, judges, teachers, politicians, businessmen, etc. What would be the point of tempting degenerate sinners who I already own? > So the koran seems to omit the part about loving > and forgiving each other. > Does it? I haven't read the Koran. A brief Googling reveals: “…. But if you pardon and exonerate and forgive, Allah is Ever-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” [Qur’an, 64: 14] “Hold to forgiveness, command what is right, and turn away from the ignorant.” [Qur’an, 7:199] “… They should rather pardon and overlook. Would you not love Allah to forgive you? Allah is Ever-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” [Qur’an, 24:22] Have you traveled much Roger? I think it makes it easier to see how biased our minds are by default just from being in the same place around the same kinds of people. Craig > > > Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net > 9/11/2012 > Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him > so that everything could function." > > - Receiving the following content - > *From:* Craig Weinberg > *Receiver:* everything-list > *Time:* 2012-09-11, 08:52:16 > *Subject:* Re: Re: What must the perceiver be like? > > Hi Roger, > > On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 8:36:47 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: >> >> Hi Craig Weinberg >> >> The Creator is not created. So no problem. >> > > Why not just say The Universe is not created. So no problem? > > What does the idea of an uncreated Creator add that has any explanatory > power? Would the idea of a Creator seem obvious if the Bible didn't exist? > > What if you found out that the Bible was actually written by people's > demons who mixed truth with lies over centuries to cause confusion, > oppression, and cruelty. If I were Satan, why wouldn't I tell people that I > am God and make them write a book which causes fear, superstition, and > misery (even if the cost is that it has some very good side effects as > well)? Not to suggest that you doubt your faith, but logically, the idea of > a Bible seems contrary to the purposes of a Creator who endows his > creations with direct capacities to make sense of his creation (including > themselves). Does he want us to know he exists or doesn't he? If so, why > write a bunch of crazy ambiguous scriptures that vary from place to place? > If not, why allow such blasphemous confusions to thrive? > > Craig > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/s2L3GTGAPpgJ. > To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com > . > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-li...@googlegroups.com . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/81MGgWxT2k0J. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: Re: What must the perceiver be like?
Hi Craig Weinberg But the universe IS created. I believe that Satan wrote the Koran, but not the Bible, for the Bible asks us to love and forgive each other. Writing that would burn the Devil's fingers. So the koran seems to omit the part about loving and forgiving each other. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 9/11/2012 Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so that everything could function." - Receiving the following content - From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-11, 08:52:16 Subject: Re: Re: What must the perceiver be like? Hi Roger, On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 8:36:47 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg The Creator is not created. So no problem. Why not just say The Universe is not created. So no problem? What does the idea of an uncreated Creator add that has any explanatory power? Would the idea of a Creator seem obvious if the Bible didn't exist? What if you found out that the Bible was actually written by people's demons who mixed truth with lies over centuries to cause confusion, oppression, and cruelty. If I were Satan, why wouldn't I tell people that I am God and make them write a book which causes fear, superstition, and misery (even if the cost is that it has some very good side effects as well)? Not to suggest that you doubt your faith, but logically, the idea of a Bible seems contrary to the purposes of a Creator who endows his creations with direct capacities to make sense of his creation (including themselves). Does he want us to know he exists or doesn't he? If so, why write a bunch of crazy ambiguous scriptures that vary from place to place? If not, why allow such blasphemous confusions to thrive? Craig -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/s2L3GTGAPpgJ. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
