Judy, this book looks controversial by its title...
There's probably nothing in either of these two books
that proves that Jesus was a Gnostic or that any of
the Gnostic texts came before the Markan document.
authfriend:
Don't believe anybody suggested either.
Hyam Maccoby?
...look at the possible political motivations behind
the creation of a historical Jesus, and then we'll
talk.
tartbrain:
Paul was criticized by the traditional jewish community
for being at odds with much jewish tradition...
tartbrain:
Paul was criticized by the traditional jewish
--- On Fri, 12/31/10, John jr_...@yahoo.com wrote:
From: John jr_...@yahoo.com
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Was Jesus Really Born on December 25th?
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, December 31, 2010, 12:20 AM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
authfriend jst
Er, Peter, Maccoby's book doesn't suggest that Jesus
never existed, or even that he wasn't a great big
deal. He's not saying Paul invented Jesus but that he
invented *Christianity* as it has come down to us.
When you jump into a thread without having read the
other posts, you're likely to make
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff roryg...@... wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff rorygoff@ wrote:
Josephus and his school were the ones who wrote the gospels and created
the historical Jesus as a Roman state religion for the Flavians to
emptybill:
...Paul's view of women, though inconsistent,
reflects his Gnosticism in its misogynist aspects.
If Paul had been a Gnostic, then we could infer that
somehow some Pagan Gnostic notions got inside the
Judaism of the times - not very likely, since the
theology of Judaism does not
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willy...@... wrote:
emptybill:
...Paul's view of women, though inconsistent,
reflects his Gnosticism in its misogynist aspects.
If Paul had been a Gnostic, then we could infer that
somehow some Pagan Gnostic notions got inside the
Judaism
John jr_esq:
Judy, this book looks controversial by its title...
There's probably nothing in either of these two books
that proves that Jesus was a Gnostic or that any of
the Gnostic texts came before the Markan document. The
oldest gospel is Mark which was probably compiled
around AD 70.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_re...@... wrote:
snip
Paul was criticized by the traditional jewish community for
being at odds with much jewish tradition
That's an understatement! He wasn't just at odds with
much jewish tradition, he outright rejected Jewish Law.
and
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willy...@... wrote:
John jr_esq:
Judy, this book looks controversial by its title...
There's probably nothing in either of these two books
that proves that Jesus was a Gnostic or that any of
the Gnostic texts came before the Markan
Great to know that you know this with such exactitude.
Huhmm
so did you Rtam Prajña this one too? Must have done so
while waiting for a client, since it has been two millennia since that
old dear doorway big mystery was purported to be hanging here.
Since he's still hanging out there in
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptyb...@... wrote:
Only because no one expresses any awareness of this fact.
Just the usual ... little baby jesus, may he be born in us.
he
If you knew then at least that makes at least two.
Which is sort of ironic, or perhaps
Theological research shows that Jesus existed historically. The main witnesses
were the gospel writers, St. Paul, their disciples and the followers of Jesus
at the time of his life in Judea.
There was also an independent Roman historian by the name of Josephus who
mentioned the existence of
Josephus and his school were the ones who wrote the gospels and created the
historical Jesus as a Roman state religion for the Flavians to counteract the
Jewish problem, if Joseph Atwill (Caesar's Messiah) is correct.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_...@... wrote:
Theological
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_...@... wrote:
Theological research shows that Jesus existed historically.
The main witnesses were the gospel writers, St. Paul, their
disciples and the followers of Jesus at the time of his life
in Judea.
The Gospels were all written many
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote:
Theological research shows that Jesus existed historically.
The main witnesses were the gospel writers, St. Paul, their
disciples and the followers of Jesus at
On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 2:07 PM, authfriend jst...@panix.com wrote:
On the other hand, it's hard to imagine how the Jesus legend
that has come down to us could have developed in a vacuum,
without there having been some individual who made a pretty
strong impression at the time.
Rick
On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 2:09 PM, authfriend jst...@panix.com wrote:
IOW, we have no accounts of Jesus from anyone who was around
at the time, so witnesses is just not an appropriate term.
But the Bible is the word of God. Says so right in there, I'm told. So
it's by its very nature, true,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_re...@... wrote:
Which is sort of ironic, or perhaps symbolic, since he's a figment of
our collective, historical imagination. There is no historical proof,
Judaic or Roman, that he ever existed.
I've often heard this expressed. I guess I
Sorry but you are into wishful thinking here.
St. Paul never met the so-call historical Jesus. Rather he was a Jewish
opponent and persecutor of the Christians in his earlier days, until he
converted on the road to Damascus after having a vision. This event
occurred after the purported
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptyb...@... wrote:
snip
The Mythmaker: Paul and the Invention of Christianity. New
York: Harper Row, 1986.
Fascinating book. Maccoby doesn't question Jesus' existence,
however, as I recall.
He does make a case that Paul had *not* been a
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff roryg...@... wrote:
Josephus and his school were the ones who wrote the gospels and created the
historical Jesus as a Roman state religion for the Flavians to counteract
the Jewish problem, if Joseph Atwill (Caesar's Messiah) is correct.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_...@... wrote:
snip
Theological research shows
What's theological research? There are no actual *facts*
to back up any of this, other than that the Gospels were
written long after Jesus' death.
that most of the apostles were uneducated fishermen
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote:
Theological research shows that Jesus existed historically.
The main witnesses were the gospel writers, St. Paul, their
disciples and the followers of Jesus at
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff rorygoff@ wrote:
Josephus and his school were the ones who wrote the gospels and created the
historical Jesus as a Roman state religion for the Flavians to counteract
the Jewish problem, if Joseph Atwill (Caesar's Messiah) is correct.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote:
snip
Theological research shows
What's theological research? There are no actual *facts*
to back up any of this, other than that the Gospels were
written long
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0293/0293_01.asp
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff roryg...@... wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff rorygoff@ wrote:
Josephus and his school were the ones who wrote the gospels and created
the historical Jesus as
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff roryg...@... wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff rorygoff@ wrote:
Josephus and his school were the ones who wrote the gospels and created
the historical Jesus as a Roman state religion for the Flavians to
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_...@... wrote:
The titles look interesting. We'll revisit this theme when the discussion
comes up again. In the meantime, I'll look for them. Thanks.
You're very welcome, John; I look forward to hearing your thoughts on them :-)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_...@... wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote:
Theological research shows that Jesus existed historically.
The main witnesses were the gospel
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_...@... wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff rorygoff@ wrote:
snip
John, I am quite familiar with orthodox Christians' view
of Christianity. If you would like to familiarize yourself
with mine, I'd suggest you read Freke
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote:
Theological research shows
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff rorygoff@ wrote:
snip
John, I am quite familiar with orthodox Christians' view
of Christianity. If you would
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_...@... wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
--- In
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_...@... wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
snip
I'd also strongly recommend the book emptybill cited,
Hyam Maccoby's The Mythmaker: Paul and the Invention
of Christianity. It's an eye-opener, whether or not
Good gosh ... is there not even a single person here who
knows that Saturnalia was the pagan origin of Christmas?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_...@... wrote:
It may have been too cold at that time period to perform a census
count.
well according to Charlie Lutes, Jesus was a blond haired blue eyed LEO
born in August and celebrated during the equinox to fool the Romans so they
would not be persecuted for being Christians.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptyb...@... wrote:
Good gosh ... is there not
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptyb...@... wrote:
Good gosh ... is there not even a single person here who
knows that Saturnalia was the pagan origin of Christmas?
Yes.
I am even aware that there is no real evidence that Jesus of Nazareth was any
more real than
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptyb...@... wrote:
Good gosh ... is there not even a single person here who
knows that Saturnalia was the pagan origin of Christmas?
Why would you think that because *one* person here seems
not to know, nobody else does either?
--- In
Only because no one expresses any awareness of this fact.
Just the usual ... little baby jesus, may he be born in us.
If you knew then at least that makes at least two.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptyb...@... wrote:
Only because no one expresses any awareness of this fact.
You know, I'll bet there are a whole lot of facts folks
know that they don't express any awareness of. I mean,
look at you. For as long as you've been on this forum,
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