Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Scientifically Validated

[salyavin808]

No, it was in the US. I can't remember what state. Colorado? California? It was 
a few years ago.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Another excellent TM Movement story I have not heard. Did this happen in the 
UK?
 
 On Fri, 4/11/14, salyavin808 mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Scientifically Validated
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Friday, April 11, 2014, 8:52 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 And do you
 remember that forest fire a few years back that didn't
 affect any vastu homes? What did the TMO claim about that?
 Invincibility that's what, "nature won't allow
 you to be harmed if you live in vastu"
 etc.
 I put it to
 the test and wrote to the journalist who covered the fire
 story in the local paper and, what a surprise, he had a
 rather different story to tell about rapidly shifting winds
 affecting some houses but not others in a seemingly random
 way. And the simple fact that the vastu development was too
 new to have foliage that could spread the fire to the
 houses. He was there and was highly unconvinced there was
 anything spooky involved. 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 

 wrote :
 
 Rubbish yourself. It's not at
 all obvious they were trying to make woo-woo of it.
 "Vindication," quite possibly, but that's not
 at all the same thing. And it might well be relevant to
 whatever Vastu says about sunlight in the home. From what
 I've read, many Vastu principles have nothing to do with
 "woo-woo," they're just about making one's
 living environment as healthy as possible.
 I sleep in
 my living room because its windows face east, and I've
 always felt more energized when I wake up to morning
 sunlight. Nothing to do with TM (or depression, bi- or
 monopolar, for that matter).
 No, never
 saw the stuff about the brain working "better"
 when it's facing east.
 I think
 your "bipolar sleep resetting" idea is something
 of a stretch. Sure would be interesting to see the whole
 study, see what the authors made of their results, whether
 they suggested a possible mechanism for the
 effect.
 
 
 Rubbish,
 it wouldn't be the first time they'd picked
 something irrelevant or vaguely samey sounding and held it
 up as vindication. And it was in a classroom studying vastu,
 so it's pretty obvious what sort of hay they are trying
 to make.
  Remember all the BS the TMO co-opted about the
 brain working "better" when it's facing east?
 It made a lot of TM brochures and broadcasts and there was a
 link to the Journal of Neurophysiology which, when followed,
 led you to a bunch of papers about how rats find their way
 about in the dark. There wasn't even any preference
 among the rat brains for any particular direction. My guess
 is they think people don't follow
 links.
 What did you
 think of my ideas about bipolar dawn sleep resetting? Rather
 good for a breakfast post I thought
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 

 wrote :
 
 Salyavin, we don't know what
 kind of hay the TMO was trying to make with this study (the
 MUMOSA guy doesn't bother to tell us). For all we know,
 it was simply that Vastu principles are in accord with
 current scientific thinking, nothing woo-woo about
 it.
 
 
 Just thinking out loud because I can't afford
 to read every science paper I'd like to either, but if
 it is something like this then what right have the TMO got
 to claim woo woo? And it doesn't even make sense if they
 do because you'd have to have an east facing bedroom
 (and not all of them are) and it would matter if the front
 door faced south even as we're talking about
 windows. 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[salyavin808]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Did you think I had suggested it was anything but an anecdote, Salyavin?
 

 Obviously, but you implied it was a spooky event. The 45 minute experience 
when you didn't know what she was doing next door and then realising it was the 
same when you did YF, is what gave it away. 

 

 Data about spooky events would be the most important scientific discovery  
ever, but no one wants to take it further. Things like this would be easy to 
test. We have a subject (you) a method by which it could be tested (comparisons 
between group YF and solo YF or just meditating). all you need is a Faraday 
cage and some positive results and you've rewritten human history. We don't 
take anecdotal data as evidence though, hence my remark.
 

 And I'm sure I could think of a few alternatives to rule out first
 
 

 Ah, if only the plural of anecdote was data...

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Thank you. How about his second question, do you have any comments on that? 

 "I mean, in theory, just about anything could be seen as potentially a siddhi, 
when the action is performed by a fully enlightened person. What activities 
would provide better "stitches" between relative and absolute, do you think?"
 

 With regard to hopping and muscle power, I partly agree--my experience has 
been that I'm using my muscles, but they aren't being controlled by the usual 
brain pathways somehow. It's more like a sneeze or a knee-jerk reflex or a 
yawn. Like you, I'm no athlete, but hopping never tired me out. And it's 
definitely triggered by the sutra, which in my case fairly quickly became just 
an impulse of something like electricity, a little tingle, no discernible 
words. With a group that was actively hopping, that impulse seemed to be in the 
air from all the people who were generating it.
 

 Before I took the TM-Sidhis course, I was at the home of a friend who was a 
governor. We did our program before dinner; she went into another room and 
closed the door because she was doing the TM-Sidhis and I wasn't.  I started 
meditating about 45 minutes later, and was surprised to suddenly feel that 
tingle, on and off. Had no idea what it was, it was totally unexpected. And I 
couldn't hear her hopping--I don't know if she actually was physically hopping, 
but I would have been feeling it while she was doing the flying sutra. It was 
only during my flying block that I realized it was the same tingle.
 

 

 

 Which question?  The one about what siddhis were left out?  I'm not sure the 
Patanjali even covered the Vamachari Siddhis which are what I learned in 
tantra.  They are given out carefully because they can be misused.  In fact the 
Maran siddhis are only learned to help people who have afflicted by someone 
misusing them (aka "black magic").
 
 There have been tales of the sutras that were tested on the AofE courses that 
were left out, some with unpredictable results.  BTW, I've never thought YF 
depended on muscular activity because I by no means am no athlete yet by no 
effort did I go zipping through the air.  I also was not exhausted at the end 
of the practice.  The siddhis created a blast of shakti with me however not as 
thick as butter as the guru mantra my tantric guru gave me.
 
 
 On 04/11/2014 11:37 AM, authfriend@... mailto:authfriend@... wrote:
 
   I'd be interested in your response to Lawson's questions, Bhairitu, if you 
have one.
 
 
 
 
 You sure have a "lofty" opinion of Maharishi.  He's just an Indian guy who was 
a monk and decided to teach meditation.  There are lots of folks like that in 
India.  ;-)  
 Years ago my cousin, a real estate agent, recommended Napoleon Hill's "Think 
and Go Rich".  I read some it but what stood out was that it was like the  
TM-Sidhi's program and this book was published in the early 20th century.  IOW, 
there is nothing new under the sun.  The techniques of samyama have been around 
for ages.  They are at the core of much of Indian yoga and philosophy.
 
 We don't understand consciousness very well.  This goes for the scientific 
community too which is just beginning to study it.  What I meant about the 
placebo effect is why if you give one group a real medicine and another a sugar 
pill why does the second group still get results?  I've tested this myself and 
am able to manifest the effects of herbs and vitamin supplements (especially 
minerals) without actually taking them.  I can also shift my body state by 
doing samyama on the desired state. 
 
 If people here haven't watched it yet and indeed it is a long interview, 
Rick's interview with Robert Svoboda, whose ayurvedic workshops I attended, is 
VERY insightful.  I like how he talks about modern medicine and his opinion 
which I've thought for years is they often don't know why some medicine will 
work and they make it sound like it is a supernatural phenomenon.  Whereas 
natural healers who actually pay attention to biochemistry and physics do 
u

[FairfieldLife] Re: Scientifically Validated

[salyavin808]

 If you cast your mind back, this conversation is about how the TMO will use 
anything to promote its woo woo claims. The forest fire was another example.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 I do remember that, yes. And so...what? Were you thinking I'd have endorsed 
that claim? Did you think it had anything to do with what I was saying about 
the morning sun study?
 

 

 

 And do you remember that forest fire a few years back that didn't affect any 
vastu homes? What did the TMO claim about that? Invincibility that's what, 
"nature won't allow you to be harmed if you live in vastu" etc.
 

 I put it to the test and wrote to the journalist who covered the fire story in 
the local paper and, what a surprise, he had a rather different story to tell 
about rapidly shifting winds affecting some houses but not others in a 
seemingly random way. And the simple fact that the vastu development was too 
new to have foliage that could spread the fire to the houses. He was there and 
was highly unconvinced there was anything spooky involved. 
 

 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Rubbish yourself. It's not at all obvious they were trying to make woo-woo of 
it. "Vindication," quite possibly, but that's not at all the same thing. And it 
might well be relevant to whatever Vastu says about sunlight in the home. From 
what I've read, many Vastu principles have nothing to do with "woo-woo," 
they're just about making one's living environment as healthy as possible. 

 I sleep in my living room because its windows face east, and I've always felt 
more energized when I wake up to morning sunlight. Nothing to do with TM (or 
depression, bi- or monopolar, for that matter). 

 No, never saw the stuff about the brain working "better" when it's facing east.
 

 I think your "bipolar sleep resetting" idea is something of a stretch. Sure 
would be interesting to see the whole study, see what the authors made of their 
results, whether they suggested a possible mechanism for the effect.
 

 

 

 Rubbish, it wouldn't be the first time they'd picked something irrelevant or 
vaguely samey sounding and held it up as vindication. And it was in a classroom 
studying vastu, so it's pretty obvious what sort of hay they are trying to 
make. 

  Remember all the BS the TMO co-opted about the brain working "better" when 
it's facing east? It made a lot of TM brochures and broadcasts and there was a 
link to the Journal of Neurophysiology which, when followed, led you to a bunch 
of papers about how rats find their way about in the dark. There wasn't even 
any preference among the rat brains for any particular direction. My guess is 
they think people don't follow links.
 

 What did you think of my ideas about bipolar dawn sleep resetting? Rather good 
for a breakfast post I thought
 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Salyavin, we don't know what kind of hay the TMO was trying to make with this 
study (the MUMOSA guy doesn't bother to tell us). For all we know, it was 
simply that Vastu principles are in accord with current scientific thinking, 
nothing woo-woo about it.
 

 

 

 Just thinking out loud because I can't afford to read every science paper I'd 
like to either, but if it is something like this then what right have the TMO 
got to claim woo woo? And it doesn't even make sense if they do because you'd 
have to have an east facing bedroom (and not all of them are) and it would 
matter if the front door faced south even as we're talking about windows.
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: So, you think you can dance?

[emilymaenot]

Ha. It was a beautiful line from Share to Emily, I thought.  No one dismisses 
her posts better than Share does.  
 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Well, took you long enough!  I first posted this.  Share's response was 
"Thanks, Emily. I admit I've never developed an appreciation for jazz. Maybe 
next lifetime smile."   Then, Nabby went  hog wild and posted it from every 
country he could find.  Now, you have jumped on the happy train, hopefully 
working up a few more dance steps.  I feel kind of sorry for Share, all this 
"happiness" to deal with, even though it is a song from her favorite movie, 
Despicable Me 2.  It's all part of her journey to "full development," I guess.  
 

 I wouldn't categorize this song as "jazz", far from it.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[authfriend]

As we know, Barry wasn't kicked out of either group. He left of his own accord. 

 > Right. He left of his own accord rather than being kicked out. End of story. 
 > >
 There is no evidence that Barry worked for the TMO or ever was a member 
 of the Rama group. But, IF the Turq HAD worked for the TMO or the Rama 
 group, he would have been kicked out. He would have been kicked out 
 trashing MMY and Rama. He is guilty. Case closed.
 
 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: So, you think you can dance?

[awoelflebater]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Well, took you long enough!  I first posted this.  Share's response was 
"Thanks, Emily. I admit I've never developed an appreciation for jazz. Maybe 
next lifetime smile."   Then, Nabby went  hog wild and posted it from every 
country he could find.  Now, you have jumped on the happy train, hopefully 
working up a few more dance steps.  I feel kind of sorry for Share, all this 
"happiness" to deal with, even though it is a song from her favorite movie, 
Despicable Me 2.  It's all part of her journey to "full development," I guess.  
 

 I wouldn't categorize this song as "jazz", far from it.

[FairfieldLife] Re: So, you think you can dance?

[awoelflebater]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Well, took you long enough!  I first posted this.  Share's response was 
"Thanks, Emily. I admit I've never developed an appreciation for jazz. Maybe 
next lifetime smile."   Then, Nabby went  hog wild and posted it from every 
country he could find.  Now, you have jumped on the happy train, hopefully 
working up a few more dance steps.  I feel kind of sorry for Share, all this 
"happiness" to deal with, even though it is a song from her favorite movie, 
Despicable Me 2.  It's all part of her journey to "full development," I guess.  
 

 I think the "smile" part was the most interesting part of her post. It spoke 
volumes.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[Richard J. Williams]

On 4/11/2014 7:52 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Right. He left of his own accord rather than being kicked out. End of 
> story.
 >
There is no evidence that Barry worked for the TMO or ever was a member 
of the Rama group. But, IF the Turq HAD worked for the TMO or the Rama 
group, he would have been kicked out. He would have been kicked out 
trashing MMY and Rama. He is guilty. Case closed.


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[FairfieldLife] Re: So, you think you can dance?

[emilymaenot]

Well, took you long enough!  I first posted this.  Share's response was 
"Thanks, Emily. I admit I've never developed an appreciation for jazz. Maybe 
next lifetime smile."   Then, Nabby went  hog wild and posted it from every 
country he could find.  Now, you have jumped on the happy train, hopefully 
working up a few more dance steps.  I feel kind of sorry for Share, all this 
"happiness" to deal with, even though it is a song from her favorite movie, 
Despicable Me 2.  It's all part of her journey to "full development," I guess.  

Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[Richard J. Williams]

On 4/11/2014 7:30 PM, Share Long wrote:
> Also, Richard, I've seen pictures of large groups of Chinese people 
> doing tai chi together.
 >
Many of those large groups of Chinese people are being paid to perform 
by the communist government. The goal of communist Chinese tai-chi orgs 
is good fortune and material wealth and health. It's all about placement 
and positioning - placing yourself so your communist overlords can see 
you working, and positioning yourself close to the nearest official for 
political gain. It's complicated.

In contrast, traditional Chinese qigong or Kung Fu is based on inner 
work, meditation and rounding with forms, and the goal is personal 
enlightenment and world peace by experiencing the pure consciousness of 
the qi or chi - the life force or the being. In some Buddhist 
traditions, the aim is to still the mind through meditation on the 
breath, using a mantra, a koan, or emptiness. The aim of all true 
martial arts training is to focus on humanity and peace, with the aim of 
self-enlightenment. It's not complicated.

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[authfriend]

Right. He left of his own accord rather than being kicked out. End of story. As 
you know, Richard, there's no evidence Barry got kicked out of the TMO or 
Lenz's group rather than leaving of his own accord. 
 As you know,Judy, I am not disputing that Barry left the TMO or Lenz's group 
of his own accord. 

Re: [FairfieldLife] End Of The Week Presents: "Yet Another Post Of The Week"

[Richard J. Williams]

On 4/11/2014 7:21 PM, nablusoss1008 wrote:
>
> As usual it's yet again time for: Post Of The Week (inluding a special 
> Bonanza: The-3-word-correction) And the winner is: Mr.Willams !
>
 >
It looks like I've learned a lot from that turncoat, lying, scoundrel, 
the Turq. LoL!

> "As you know,Judy, I am not disputing that Barry left the TMO or 
> Lenz's group of his own accord. But that's because he was kicked out, 
> as in - not being let into the Golden Dome. If he had tried to sneak 
> into the Women's Golden Dome, he would have been kicked out. Since, he 
> was never inside any Golden Dome in the first place, of course he 
> wasn't kicked out of a Golden Dome. But, his is NOW kicked out because 
> he is a turncoat fink since 1996 on FFL. He's kicked out  and cannot 
> get back in after printing all those leaflets and posters. Kicked out; 
> cannot teach TM; cannot get into a dome.
>
> As in "Get out of here you lying, scoundrel, turncoat!"
>
> He's kicked out of the Rama cult because he did not give Rama the 
> $1000 to view another levitation event on stage with the golden light 
> all around the the other Woo Woo stuff. And, he cannot get back in the 
> cult because he published that book trashing Rama. So, they kicked 
> Turq out, as in - not being let into the stage show when he showed up 
> with no money. So, NOW he is kicked out for non-payment of dues AND 
> for making money from Rama's name. He's kicked out of the cult because 
> he has no money after printing all those leaflets and posters and 
> renting all those lecture halls. Kicked out; cannot get into a 
> levitation event.
>
> As in "Hell no you can't come in here you lying turncoat scoundrel!"
>


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[Share Long]

Also, Richard, I've seen pictures of large groups of Chinese people doing tai 
chi together. Maybe they're aiming for the Lao Tzu Effect (-:


On Friday, April 11, 2014 6:15 PM, Richard J. Williams  
wrote:
 
  
On 4/11/2014 5:21 PM, nablusoss1008 wrote:

Mr. Williams, I find your comments higly inappropiate. It's supposed to be the 
MJ-fellow who is practising that chinese woo woo who is the man in the know, 
not you ! You certainly have some nerve introducing unknown mindcrap essential 
to the practise Mr. MJ is doing on a daily basis. 
>
>
You'd think that someone who had practiced Hindu yoga meditation for
two years, and then practiced the Chinesee qigong meditation for two
years, would have noticed the similarity between both traditions.
Each have as their goal personal enlightenment and the cultivation
of the life-force energy- chi - pure consciousness. According to
Grandmaster Wong: "At the highest level, when the mind is purified,
one attains enlightenment, also called nirvana, bodhi, or
Buddhahood. Attaining nirvana is the highest spiritual attainment."

Note on Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit:

The 4th generation successor from the Shaolin Monastery of China. He
is a grandmaster of Shaolin Kungfu and Chi Kung. He received the
"Qigong Master of the Year" award at the Second World Congress on
Qigong held in San Francisco in November, 1997. He also holds an
honors degree in humanities, and is one of the very few masters who
speaks excellent English.

Work cited:

'The Art of Shaolin Kung Fu: The Secrets of Kung Fu for
Self-Defense, Health, and Enlightenment'
by Wong Kiew Kit
Tuttle, 2002



>---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
>
>
>On 4/11/2014 12:10 PM, Michael Jackson wrote:
>
>> what the Chinese believe about the effects of tai chi and chi gung 
>>> have no relation to the made up fairy tale bullshit
called the Marshy 
>>> Effect - no one ever claimed group practice of chi gung
will create 
>>> world peace. 
>>>
>>
You are incorrect - the whole purpose of qigong training is to unify the 
>chi consciousness in order to produce a particular
psycho-physical state 
>of being. The goal of qigong tradition in traditional chinesse
medicine 
>is the cultivation of the chi - pure consciousness.
>
>"The practice of qigong is an important component in both
internal and 
>external style Chinese martial arts. Focus on qi is considered
to be a 
>source of power as well as the foundation of the internal style
of 
>martial arts."
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qigong



 
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[FairfieldLife] So, you think you can dance?

[Pundit Sir]

Happy!

http://youtu.be/y6Sxv-sUYtM

[FairfieldLife] End Of The Week Presents: "Yet Another Post Of The Week"

[nablusoss1008]

As usual it's yet again time for: Post Of The Week (inluding a special Bonanza: 
The-3-word-correction) And the winner is: Mr.Willams !

 "As you know,Judy, I am not disputing that Barry left the TMO or Lenz's group 
of his own accord. But that's because he was kicked out, as in - not being let 
into the Golden Dome. If he had tried to sneak into the Women's Golden Dome, he 
would have been kicked out. Since, he was never inside any Golden Dome in the 
first place, of course he wasn't kicked out of a Golden Dome. But, his is NOW 
kicked out because he is a turncoat fink since 1996 on FFL. He's kicked out  
and cannot get back in after printing all those leaflets and posters. Kicked 
out; cannot teach TM; cannot get into a dome. 

 As in "Get out of here you lying, scoundrel, turncoat!"

 He's kicked out of the Rama cult because he did not give Rama the $1000 to 
view another levitation event on stage with the golden light all around the the 
other Woo Woo stuff. And, he cannot get back in the cult because he published 
that book trashing Rama. So, they kicked Turq out, as in - not being let into 
the stage show when he showed up with no money. So, NOW he is kicked out for 
non-payment of dues AND for making money from Rama's name. He's kicked out of 
the cult because he has no money after printing all those leaflets and posters 
and renting all those lecture halls. Kicked out; cannot get into a levitation 
event. 

 As in "Hell no you can't come in here you lying turncoat scoundrel!"

[FairfieldLife] Post Count Sat 12-Apr-14 00:15:06 UTC

[FFL PostCount]

Fairfield Life Post Counter
===
Start Date (UTC): 04/05/14 00:00:00
End Date (UTC): 04/12/14 00:00:00
836 messages as of (UTC) 04/11/14 23:33:30

125 Richard J. Williams 
 87 authfriend
 81 salyavin808 
 78 Michael Jackson 
 59 nablusoss1008 
 55 LEnglish5
 54 TurquoiseBee 
 50 Share Long 
 50 Bhairitu 
 41 awoelflebater
 39 steve.sundur
 27 jr_esq
 20 dhamiltony2k5
 16 Mike Dixon 
 10 cardemaister
  8 emilymaenot
  7 j_alexander_stanley
  5 Pundit Sir 
  4 feste37 
  4 Dick Mays 
  3 anartaxius
  2 turquoiseb
  2 dmevans365
  2 Rick Archer 
  2 Duveyoung 
  1 robby1939
  1 raunchydog
  1 punditster
  1 geezerfreak
  1 Paulo Barbosa 
Posters: 30
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[Richard J. Williams]

On 4/11/2014 5:13 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote:
*As you know, Richard, there's no evidence Barry got kicked out of the 
TMO or Lenz's group rather than leaving of his own accord.*

>
As you know,Judy, I am not disputing that Barry left the TMO or Lenz's 
group of his own accord. But that's because he was kicked out, as in - 
not being let into the Golden Dome. If he had tried to sneak into the 
Women's Golden Dome, he would have been kicked out. Since, he was never 
inside any Golden Dome in the first place, of course he wasn't kicked 
out of a Golden Dome. But, his is NOW kicked out because he is a 
turncoat fink since 1996 on FFL. He's kicked out of the cult and cannot 
get back in after printing all those leaflets and posters. Kicked out; 
cannot teach TM; cannot get into a dome.


As in "Get out of here you lying, scoundrel, turncoat!"

He's kicked out of the Rama cult because he did not give Rama the $1000 
to view another levitation event on stage with the golden light all 
around the the other Woo Woo stuff. And, he cannot get back in the cult 
because he published that book trashing Rama. So, they kicked Turq out, 
as in - not being let into the stage show when he showed up with no 
money. So, NOW he is kicked out for non-payment of dues AND for making 
money from Rama's name. He's kicked out of the cult because he has no 
money after printing all those leaflets and posters and renting all 
those lecture halls. Kicked out; cannot get into a levitation event.


As in "Hell no you can't come in here you lying turncoat scoundrel!"


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[Richard J. Williams]

On 4/11/2014 5:21 PM, nablusoss1008 wrote:
Mr. Williams, I find your comments higly inappropiate. It's supposed 
to be the MJ-fellow who is practising that chinese woo woo who is the 
man in the know, not you ! You certainly have some nerve introducing 
unknown mindcrap essential to the practise Mr. MJ is doing on a daily 
basis.

>
You'd think that someone who had practiced Hindu yoga meditation for two 
years, and then practiced the Chinesee qigong meditation for two years, 
would have noticed the similarity between both traditions. Each have as 
their goal personal enlightenment and the cultivation of the life-force 
energy- chi - pure consciousness. According to Grandmaster Wong: "At the 
highest level, when the mind is purified, one attains enlightenment, 
also called nirvana, bodhi, or Buddhahood. Attaining nirvana is the 
highest spiritual attainment."


Note on Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit:

The 4th generation successor from the Shaolin Monastery of China. He is 
a grandmaster of Shaolin Kungfu and Chi Kung. He received the "Qigong 
Master of the Year" award at the Second World Congress on Qigong held in 
San Francisco in November, 1997. He also holds an honors degree in 
humanities, and is one of the very few masters who speaks excellent English.


Work cited:

'The Art of Shaolin Kung Fu: The Secrets of Kung Fu for Self-Defense, 
Health, and Enlightenment'

by Wong Kiew Kit
Tuttle, 2002



---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

On 4/11/2014 12:10 PM, Michael Jackson wrote:

> what the Chinese believe about the effects of tai chi and chi gung
> have no relation to the made up fairy tale bullshit called the
Marshy
> Effect - no one ever claimed group practice of chi gung will create
> world peace.
>

You are incorrect - the whole purpose of qigong training is to unify the
chi consciousness in order to produce a particular psycho-physical state
of being. The goal of qigong tradition in traditional chinesse medicine
is the cultivation of the chi - pure consciousness.

"The practice of qigong is an important component in both internal and
external style Chinese martial arts. Focus on qi is considered to be a
source of power as well as the foundation of the internal style of
martial arts."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qigong




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[FairfieldLife] And Now For Something Completely Different II

[nablusoss1008]

Don't miss these unforgettable highlights from The Cultural History Of The 
Scorpion Nation
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7O4nTaTEeg 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7O4nTaTEeg
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf-yvJKG608 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf-yvJKG608

[FairfieldLife] And Now For Something Completely Different

[nablusoss1008]

Cultural Highlights from The Scorpion Nation
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzzOBv7RPbw 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzzOBv7RPbw

Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[nablusoss1008]

 
 Mr. Williams, I find your comments higly inappropiate. It's supposed to be the 
MJ-fellow who is practising that chinese woo woo who is the man in the know, 
not you ! You certainly have some nerve introducing unknown mindcrap essential 
to the practise Mr. MJ is doing on a daily basis. 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 On 4/11/2014 12:10 PM, Michael Jackson wrote:
 > what the Chinese believe about the effects of tai chi and chi gung 
 > have no relation to the made up fairy tale bullshit called the Marshy 
 > Effect - no one ever claimed group practice of chi gung will create 
 > world peace. 
 >
 You are incorrect - the whole purpose of qigong training is to unify the 
 chi consciousness in order to produce a particular psycho-physical state 
 of being. The goal of qigong tradition in traditional chinesse medicine 
 is the cultivation of the chi - pure consciousness.
 
 "The practice of qigong is an important component in both internal and 
 external style Chinese martial arts. Focus on qi is considered to be a 
 source of power as well as the foundation of the internal style of 
 martial arts."
 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qigong http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qigong
 
 ---
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protection is active.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[authfriend]

As you know, Richard, there's no evidence Barry got kicked out of the TMO or 
Lenz's group rather than leaving of his own accord. 
 
 As you know, Richard, there's no evidence Barry got kicked out of the TMO or 
Lenz's group rather than leaving of his own accord. >
 Let me rephrase my statement so you can understand what it means to be kicked 
out of a cult. Barry has already explained this to you, unless you thin he's 
lying. Go figure.
 
 In the TM cult, if you visit another teacher and give him money, and print up 
flyers and hand them out in front of the TM Center at 1015 Gayley Blvd, and you 
tack up posters on telephone poles all over West Hollywood - you're kicked out 
and you cannot teach TM or get into a Golden Dome to do yogic flying - you're 
kicked out.
 
 In the Rama cult, if you don't pay to get in to the lecture, you don't get in; 
if you don't give Rama money, you're out. You either pay Rama money or you're 
out - kicked out. Everyone knows this - it's a matter of record.
 
 'Take Me For A Ride'
 by Mark Laxer
 http://www.ex-cult.org/Groups/Rama/ http://www.ex-cult.org/Groups/Rama/
 

 This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus 
http://www.avast.com/ protection is active.
 
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[nablusoss1008]

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Scientifically Validated

[authfriend]

I read the article, Michael. But you get me wrong once again: I AM NOT 
DEFENDING TM'S VASTU, especially not its marketing, and ESPECIALLY not anything 
about it that involves woo-woo, like south-facing entrances. That is not what I 
meant by making one's living environment as healthy as possible. Like Salyavin, 
I'd love to live in a Vastu home because the interiors look airy and bright and 
spacious and comfortable. And I like the idea of using natural materials as 
much as possible. Be nice to have a body of water nearby too. That's all I care 
about. Doesn't even have to be Vastu if some other style has the same 
qualities. 

 In any case, my posts to you had nothing to do with any of that. Go back and 
read them again and stop being so paranoid.
 

 

 

 

 If you had read the link I once provided here on FFL, you would have read an 
article by an Indian bemoaning the lack of common sense in modern India, 
specifically with adherence to outmoded beliefs about vastu. He stated that 
there are in fact a number of vastu ideas, all from different time periods of 
Indian history, all by different authors and none of them agreeing with one 
another about vastu. 
 He further stated that time, geographical location, local climate conditions, 
politics, religious beliefs among other things shaped what that particular 
"vastu rishi" declared was the proper way to construct a building. Some of the 
ancient precepts AT THE TIME THEY WERE WRITTEN made sense in practical terms 
because of the lack of modern technology, the need for proper ventilation and 
so on. These declarations are no longer needed nor are they practical. The 
vastu ved people, even the non-TM ones just tout it to get people to listen to 
them and pay them money. Marshy took that concept and did it up to the nines. 
The pronouncement of south facing entrances being inimical to human life is not 
accepted by any of the other vastu architecture folks that I have been able to 
find. 
 
 It may have had a practical function once upon a time but it is an 
anachronistic holdover that serves little useful function and is being used by 
the TMO as it uses everything else to be a tool for fear mongering that gets 
people to pay allegiance ONLY to the TM version of reality and to get those 
same fearful people to give the TMO their money. As Edg would say, BAH!
 
 On Fri, 4/11/14, authfriend@... mailto:authfriend@... mailto:authfriend@...> wrote:
 
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Scientifically Validated
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Friday, April 11, 2014, 8:33 PM
 
Rubbish yourself.
 It's not at all obvious they were trying to make woo-woo
 of it. "Vindication," quite possibly, but
 that's not at all the same thing. And it might well be
 relevant to whatever Vastu says about sunlight in the home.
 From what I've read, many Vastu principles have nothing
 to do with "woo-woo," they're just about
 making one's living environment as healthy as
 possible.
 I sleep in
 my living room because its windows face east, and I've
 always felt more energized when I wake up to morning
 sunlight. Nothing to do with TM (or depression, bi- or
 monopolar, for that matter).
 No, never
 saw the stuff about the brain working "better"
 when it's facing east.
 I think
 your "bipolar sleep resetting" idea is something
 of a stretch. Sure would be interesting to see the whole
 study, see what the authors made of their results, whether
 they suggested a possible mechanism for the
 effect.
 
 
 Rubbish,
 it wouldn't be the first time they'd picked
 something irrelevant or vaguely samey sounding and held it
 up as vindication. And it was in a classroom studying vastu,
 so it's pretty obvious what sort of hay they are trying
 to make.
  Remember all the BS the TMO co-opted about the
 brain working "better" when it's facing east?
 It made a lot of TM brochures and broadcasts and there was a
 link to the Journal of Neurophysiology which, when followed,
 led you to a bunch of papers about how rats find their way
 about in the dark. There wasn't even any preference
 among the rat brains for any particular direction. My guess
 is they think people don't follow
 links.
 What did you
 think of my ideas about bipolar dawn sleep resetting? Rather
 good for a breakfast post I thought
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 

 wrote :
 
 Salyavin, we don't know what
 kind of hay the TMO was trying to make with this study (the
 MUMOSA guy doesn't bother to tell us). For all we know,
 it was simply that Vastu principles are in accord with
 current scientific thinking, nothing woo-woo about
 it.
 
 
 Just thinking out loud because I can't afford
 to read every science paper I'd like to either, but if
 it is something like this then what right have the TMO got
 to claim woo woo? And it doesn't even make sense if they
 do because you'd have to have an east facing be

Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[Richard J. Williams]

On 4/10/2014 11:53 PM, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com wrote:
I would-a smuggled money for Marshy if he'd-a asked me, as long as I 
got to stick a third of it in my pocket.


Funny that. And so how does that make you any different from MMY, the 
guy you revile? Anything for a buck?

>
Maybe that would account for the missing furniture in the S.C. TM 
Center. Go figure.



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[Richard J. Williams]

On 4/10/2014 11:38 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote:
*As you know, Richard, there's no evidence Barry got kicked out of the 
TMO or Lenz's group rather than leaving of his own accord.*

>
Let me rephrase my statement so you can understand what it means to be 
kicked out of a cult. Barry has already explained this to you, unless 
you thin he's lying. Go figure.


In the TM cult, if you visit another teacher and give him money, and 
print up flyers and hand them out in front of the TM Center at 1015 
Gayley Blvd, and you tack up posters on telephone poles all over West 
Hollywood - you're kicked out and you cannot teach TM or get into a 
Golden Dome to do yogic flying - you're kicked out.


In the Rama cult, if you don't pay to get in to the lecture, you don't 
get in; if you don't give Rama money, you're out. You either pay Rama 
money or you're out - kicked out. Everyone knows this - it's a matter of 
record.


'Take Me For A Ride'
by Mark Laxer
http://www.ex-cult.org/Groups/Rama/


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Scientifically Validated

[Michael Jackson]

Another excellent TM Movement story I have not heard. Did this happen in the UK?

On Fri, 4/11/14, salyavin808  wrote:

 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Scientifically Validated
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Friday, April 11, 2014, 8:52 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
   
   
   
 And do you
 remember that forest fire a few years back that didn't
 affect any vastu homes? What did the TMO claim about that?
 Invincibility that's what, "nature won't allow
 you to be harmed if you live in vastu"
 etc.
 I put it to
 the test and wrote to the journalist who covered the fire
 story in the local paper and, what a surprise, he had a
 rather different story to tell about rapidly shifting winds
 affecting some houses but not others in a seemingly random
 way. And the simple fact that the vastu development was too
 new to have foliage that could spread the fire to the
 houses. He was there and was highly unconvinced there was
 anything spooky involved. 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 wrote :
 
 Rubbish yourself. It's not at
 all obvious they were trying to make woo-woo of it.
 "Vindication," quite possibly, but that's not
 at all the same thing. And it might well be relevant to
 whatever Vastu says about sunlight in the home. From what
 I've read, many Vastu principles have nothing to do with
 "woo-woo," they're just about making one's
 living environment as healthy as possible.
 I sleep in
 my living room because its windows face east, and I've
 always felt more energized when I wake up to morning
 sunlight. Nothing to do with TM (or depression, bi- or
 monopolar, for that matter).
 No, never
 saw the stuff about the brain working "better"
 when it's facing east.
 I think
 your "bipolar sleep resetting" idea is something
 of a stretch. Sure would be interesting to see the whole
 study, see what the authors made of their results, whether
 they suggested a possible mechanism for the
 effect.
 
 
 Rubbish,
 it wouldn't be the first time they'd picked
 something irrelevant or vaguely samey sounding and held it
 up as vindication. And it was in a classroom studying vastu,
 so it's pretty obvious what sort of hay they are trying
 to make.
  Remember all the BS the TMO co-opted about the
 brain working "better" when it's facing east?
 It made a lot of TM brochures and broadcasts and there was a
 link to the Journal of Neurophysiology which, when followed,
 led you to a bunch of papers about how rats find their way
 about in the dark. There wasn't even any preference
 among the rat brains for any particular direction. My guess
 is they think people don't follow
 links.
 What did you
 think of my ideas about bipolar dawn sleep resetting? Rather
 good for a breakfast post I thought
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 wrote :
 
 Salyavin, we don't know what
 kind of hay the TMO was trying to make with this study (the
 MUMOSA guy doesn't bother to tell us). For all we know,
 it was simply that Vastu principles are in accord with
 current scientific thinking, nothing woo-woo about
 it.
 
 
 Just thinking out loud because I can't afford
 to read every science paper I'd like to either, but if
 it is something like this then what right have the TMO got
 to claim woo woo? And it doesn't even make sense if they
 do because you'd have to have an east facing bedroom
 (and not all of them are) and it would matter if the front
 door faced south even as we're talking about
 windows.
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Scientifically Validated

[Michael Jackson]

And like so much of what the Movement promotes, it actually undermines the 
basic premise of TM being excellent for you, if you just have a little bit of 
common sense about you. If you look with a clear mind at what the TMO claims 
for all its adjunct programs, you can only come to the conclusion that if you 
DON"T have all this stuff, then you are doomed to a crummy life, even if you do 
TM. TM originally was supposed to free you from all kinds of bad karma, 
stresses whatever. But if you don't have that yagya, that jyotish chart, that 
jyotish gem, that oil rubdown, that next rounding course, those pundits praying 
to Agni for you, that perfect vastu home then you are falling apart - which 
means, if you need this stuff, TM is ineffective after all.

On Fri, 4/11/14, salyavin808  wrote:

 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Scientifically Validated
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Friday, April 11, 2014, 8:44 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
   
   
   Vastu is just common sense from an
 iron age farmers perspective. Kitchen in the coolest place,
 ability to tell the solstices from looking out the front
 door etc. Maybe there's a bit of folk wisdom in waking
 up facing the sun being better for you.
 Where it all goes wrong is when the
 TMO introduce woo woo concepts like perfect health and
 invincibility and start telling people that meditating in a
 vastu home is like doing it in a group of a thousand. It
 isn't, but you might be able to kid yourself if you are
 a believer. 
 Most people I know who rushed to get
 into vastu actually thought it would solve all their
 problems and be the final missing link in enlightenment. It
 isn't, it's just a house. I know loads of people
 that live in them and I have stayed with them many times and
 will do again. But they got their hopelessly unrealistic
 ideas from somewhere. If you've ever been on a vastu
 course you'll know the answer to that
 one.
 I'd like one simply so I can see
 the sun rise on midsummer morning directly opposite the
 front door. But I'm a bit pagan.
 BTW the "rubbish" came from
 my disbelief that anyone here would think, after all these
 years, that people in the TMO won't grasp at any straw
 available to prop up their belief system. It's an
 article of faith in the TMO that your brain works better
 when facing east. I had a Dr of physics explain to me that
 it's because that's the direction the Earth turns.
 Go figure.
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 wrote :
 
 Rubbish yourself. It's not at
 all obvious they were trying to make woo-woo of it.
 "Vindication," quite possibly, but that's not
 at all the same thing. And it might well be relevant to
 whatever Vastu says about sunlight in the home. From what
 I've read, many Vastu principles have nothing to do with
 "woo-woo," they're just about making one's
 living environment as healthy as possible.
 I sleep in
 my living room because its windows face east, and I've
 always felt more energized when I wake up to morning
 sunlight. Nothing to do with TM (or depression, bi- or
 monopolar, for that matter).
 No, never
 saw the stuff about the brain working "better"
 when it's facing east.
 I think
 your "bipolar sleep resetting" idea is something
 of a stretch. Sure would be interesting to see the whole
 study, see what the authors made of their results, whether
 they suggested a possible mechanism for the
 effect.
 
 
 Rubbish,
 it wouldn't be the first time they'd picked
 something irrelevant or vaguely samey sounding and held it
 up as vindication. And it was in a classroom studying vastu,
 so it's pretty obvious what sort of hay they are trying
 to make.
  Remember all the BS the TMO co-opted about the
 brain working "better" when it's facing east?
 It made a lot of TM brochures and broadcasts and there was a
 link to the Journal of Neurophysiology which, when followed,
 led you to a bunch of papers about how rats find their way
 about in the dark. There wasn't even any preference
 among the rat brains for any particular direction. My guess
 is they think people don't follow
 links.
 What did you
 think of my ideas about bipolar dawn sleep resetting? Rather
 good for a breakfast post I thought
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 wrote :
 
 Salyavin, we don't know what
 kind of hay the TMO was trying to make with this study (the
 MUMOSA guy doesn't bother to tell us). For all we know,
 it was simply that Vastu principles are in accord with
 current scientific thinking, nothing woo-woo about
 it.
 
 
 Just thinking out loud because I can't afford
 to read every science paper I'd like to either, but if
 it is something like this then what right have the TMO got
 to claim woo woo? And it doesn't even make sense if they
 do because you'd have to have an east facing bedroom
 (and not all of them are) and it would matter if the front
 door faced south even as we're talking about
 windows.
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Scientifically Validated

[Michael Jackson]

Again you are creating mindcrap that doesn't exist I have not now nor have I 
ever said I dislike you. I said I see why Barry dislikes you. There is a 
difference. You mainly remind me of a pack of yapping chihuahuas.

On Fri, 4/11/14, authfri...@yahoo.com  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Scientifically Validated
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Friday, April 11, 2014, 8:48 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
   
   
   No, you misread me. Of course he was right to
 ask, and the teacher should have said he'd check and get
 back to him. But as I said, that's a pretty minor
 complaint. And we have no indication whatsoever that
 anything was "jimmied." As I pointed out, what the
 instructor put on the handout was exactly what the study
 authors put in their abstract, but your guy was too lazy to
 check that out, and he seems to have rejected TM-Vastu as a
 whole because the teacher didn't happen to have a number
 at his fingertips. It's just a really lame
 critique.
 It's not surprising you dislike me,
 for the same reason Barry does: I don't let him get away
 with shit. In fact, though, normally I leave you pretty much
 alone, because at least you're not trying to deceive
 anybody. This particular post was just so off the wall I had
 to comment.
 
 
 Are you kin to
 Richard? You like he, spin off into some mindcrap and
 misinterpret everything that comes your way. 
 
 
 
 My point was not about the study itself, it was about the
 teachers handling of the subject matter. He didn't know
 what the answer was, and the student was absolutely correct
 to ask the question of the average hospital stay. 
 
 
 
 If as he said the average stay was one week, then the
 reduction of the stay by more than 3 days is very
 significant, but if the stay was 50 or 100 days, the study
 is much less significant. 
 
 
 
 My point was and is that the TMO and all its boosters and
 apologists will clutch at the slightest straws and use
 statistical evidence that is at best jimmied to show what
 the TMO wants it to show, much like the Big Pharam companies
 and companies like Monsanto do. How bout that, the TMO using
 the same bs techniques that Monsanto uses?
 
 
 
 I feel sure you will use my reply to blabber and blather on
 about how wrong I am - again, I see why Barry dislikes you
 so very much.
 
 
  On Fri, 4/11/14, authfriend@... 
 wrote:
 
 
 
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Scientifically Validated
 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 
 Date: Friday, April 11, 2014, 7:37 PM
 
 
 OK, I took another
 
 look at the MUMOSA post, and your paean is ridiculous. This
 
 study wasn't TM-related at all; and your guy found
 
 NOTHING WHATSOEVER to indicate it was "baloney."
 
 The instructor simply copied the published study abstract
 
 for the handout (go look for yourself, as both Salyavin and
 
 I did, but your guy didn't).
 
 The
 
 abstract didn't say how long the average
 
 hospitalizations were; it simply said the length of
 
 hospitalization for each of the patients in the study had
 
 been recorded (that's what it says on the handout). The
 
 full study surely reports those figures, or it wouldn't
 
 have been published. Your guy found no smoking gun in the
 
 abstract, and he didn't do his homework. Pretty pallid
 
 effort. And good grief, if that's the only complaint he
 
 has about the TM research...
 
 
 
 Excellent, excellent post
 
 by the master of the new MUMOSA website, underscoring how
 
 the much ballyhooed "science" shoring up TM is
 
 often baloney.
 
 http://mumosa.com/mum-stories/maximum-vastu-fail.html
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[Richard J. Williams]

On 4/10/2014 11:21 PM, lengli...@cox.net wrote:
> if anyone ever does manage to float around the room due to Yogic 
> Flying practice, will it matter whether it is due to a placebo effect 
> or due to a non-placebo effect?
 >
The Turq placebo effect theory is impossible because of the 
impracticality of double blind testing using appropriate placebo 
treatments. There is a basic problem of placebo control - you would 
never be able to distinguished the benefits from the placebo effect.

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This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Scientifically Validated

[Michael Jackson]

If you had read the link I once provided here on FFL, you would have read an 
article by an Indian bemoaning the lack of common sense in modern India, 
specifically with adherence to outmoded beliefs about vastu. He stated that 
there are in fact a number of vastu ideas, all from different time periods of 
Indian history, all by different authors and none of them agreeing with one 
another about vastu.

He further stated that time, geographical location, local climate conditions, 
politics, religious beliefs among other things shaped what that particular 
"vastu rishi" declared was the proper way to construct a building. Some of the 
ancient precepts AT THE TIME THEY WERE WRITTEN made sense in practical terms 
because of the lack of modern technology, the need for proper ventilation and 
so on. These declarations are no longer needed nor are they practical. The 
vastu ved people, even the non-TM ones just tout it to get people to listen to 
them and pay them money. Marshy took that concept and did it up to the nines. 
The pronouncement of south facing entrances being inimical to human life is not 
accepted by any of the other vastu architecture folks that I have been able to 
find. 

It may have had a practical function once upon a time but it is an 
anachronistic holdover that serves little useful function and is being used by 
the TMO as it uses everything else to be a tool for fear mongering that gets 
people to pay allegiance ONLY to the TM version of reality and to get those 
same fearful people to give the TMO their money. As Edg would say, BAH!

On Fri, 4/11/14, authfri...@yahoo.com  wrote:

 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Scientifically Validated
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Friday, April 11, 2014, 8:33 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
   
   
   Rubbish yourself.
 It's not at all obvious they were trying to make woo-woo
 of it. "Vindication," quite possibly, but
 that's not at all the same thing. And it might well be
 relevant to whatever Vastu says about sunlight in the home.
 From what I've read, many Vastu principles have nothing
 to do with "woo-woo," they're just about
 making one's living environment as healthy as
 possible.
 I sleep in
 my living room because its windows face east, and I've
 always felt more energized when I wake up to morning
 sunlight. Nothing to do with TM (or depression, bi- or
 monopolar, for that matter).
 No, never
 saw the stuff about the brain working "better"
 when it's facing east.
 I think
 your "bipolar sleep resetting" idea is something
 of a stretch. Sure would be interesting to see the whole
 study, see what the authors made of their results, whether
 they suggested a possible mechanism for the
 effect.
 
 
 Rubbish,
 it wouldn't be the first time they'd picked
 something irrelevant or vaguely samey sounding and held it
 up as vindication. And it was in a classroom studying vastu,
 so it's pretty obvious what sort of hay they are trying
 to make.
  Remember all the BS the TMO co-opted about the
 brain working "better" when it's facing east?
 It made a lot of TM brochures and broadcasts and there was a
 link to the Journal of Neurophysiology which, when followed,
 led you to a bunch of papers about how rats find their way
 about in the dark. There wasn't even any preference
 among the rat brains for any particular direction. My guess
 is they think people don't follow
 links.
 What did you
 think of my ideas about bipolar dawn sleep resetting? Rather
 good for a breakfast post I thought
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 wrote :
 
 Salyavin, we don't know what
 kind of hay the TMO was trying to make with this study (the
 MUMOSA guy doesn't bother to tell us). For all we know,
 it was simply that Vastu principles are in accord with
 current scientific thinking, nothing woo-woo about
 it.
 
 
 Just thinking out loud because I can't afford
 to read every science paper I'd like to either, but if
 it is something like this then what right have the TMO got
 to claim woo woo? And it doesn't even make sense if they
 do because you'd have to have an east facing bedroom
 (and not all of them are) and it would matter if the front
 door faced south even as we're talking about
 windows.
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Will next Tuesday bring the "Big One"?

[Mike Dixon]

So your anus is in Aries.. .go figure .
On Friday, April 11, 2014 12:31 PM, Share Long  wrote:
  
  
noozguru, also next Tuesday is what Western astrologers call a Grand Cross. And 
in that system it's occurring at 13 degrees. Of the Cardinal signs: Uranus in 
Aries; Jupiter in Cancer; Mars in Libra and Pluto in Capricorn. Hold on to your 
seat belts!


On Friday, April 11, 2014 1:39 PM, Bhairitu  wrote:
  
  
Next Tuesday will bring a full lunar eclipse viewable in North America. 
Often eclipses bring earthquakes either on the day or in days following 
(after a plate settles from the gravitation pull). The Ring of Fire has 
been very active lately.  Of course the USGS doesn't want to panic 
people.  However, Alex Jones had Stan Deyo on his show this morning who 
pointed out the the USGS got yelled at in the past for pointing out the 
likelihood of earthquake and volcanic activity because (guess what) it 
damages real estate values in those areas.  Now of course for some 
people Jones and Deyo spell "super woo-woo" but it was an interesting 
subject and Deyo simply uses data found on the USGS web site.

Ready to rock and roll?

   

  
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[Richard J. Williams]

On 4/11/2014 12:10 PM, Michael Jackson wrote:
> what the Chinese believe about the effects of tai chi and chi gung 
> have no relation to the made up fairy tale bullshit called the Marshy 
> Effect - no one ever claimed group practice of chi gung will create 
> world peace. 
 >
You are incorrect - the whole purpose of qigong training is to unify the 
chi consciousness in order to produce a particular psycho-physical state 
of being. The goal of qigong tradition in traditional chinesse medicine 
is the cultivation of the chi - pure consciousness.

"The practice of qigong is an important component in both internal and 
external style Chinese martial arts. Focus on qi is considered to be a 
source of power as well as the foundation of the internal style of 
martial arts."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qigong

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[authfriend]

Did you think I had suggested it was anything but an anecdote, Salyavin? 

 Ah, if only the plural of anecdote was data...

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Thank you. How about his second question, do you have any comments on that? 

 "I mean, in theory, just about anything could be seen as potentially a siddhi, 
when the action is performed by a fully enlightened person. What activities 
would provide better "stitches" between relative and absolute, do you think?"
 

 With regard to hopping and muscle power, I partly agree--my experience has 
been that I'm using my muscles, but they aren't being controlled by the usual 
brain pathways somehow. It's more like a sneeze or a knee-jerk reflex or a 
yawn. Like you, I'm no athlete, but hopping never tired me out. And it's 
definitely triggered by the sutra, which in my case fairly quickly became just 
an impulse of something like electricity, a little tingle, no discernible 
words. With a group that was actively hopping, that impulse seemed to be in the 
air from all the people who were generating it.
 

 Before I took the TM-Sidhis course, I was at the home of a friend who was a 
governor. We did our program before dinner; she went into another room and 
closed the door because she was doing the TM-Sidhis and I wasn't.  I started 
meditating about 45 minutes later, and was surprised to suddenly feel that 
tingle, on and off. Had no idea what it was, it was totally unexpected. And I 
couldn't hear her hopping--I don't know if she actually was physically hopping, 
but I would have been feeling it while she was doing the flying sutra. It was 
only during my flying block that I realized it was the same tingle.
 

 

 

 Which question?  The one about what siddhis were left out?  I'm not sure the 
Patanjali even covered the Vamachari Siddhis which are what I learned in 
tantra.  They are given out carefully because they can be misused.  In fact the 
Maran siddhis are only learned to help people who have afflicted by someone 
misusing them (aka "black magic").
 
 There have been tales of the sutras that were tested on the AofE courses that 
were left out, some with unpredictable results.  BTW, I've never thought YF 
depended on muscular activity because I by no means am no athlete yet by no 
effort did I go zipping through the air.  I also was not exhausted at the end 
of the practice.  The siddhis created a blast of shakti with me however not as 
thick as butter as the guru mantra my tantric guru gave me.
 
 
 On 04/11/2014 11:37 AM, authfriend@... mailto:authfriend@... wrote:
 
   I'd be interested in your response to Lawson's questions, Bhairitu, if you 
have one.
 
 
 
 
 You sure have a "lofty" opinion of Maharishi.  He's just an Indian guy who was 
a monk and decided to teach meditation.  There are lots of folks like that in 
India.  ;-)  
 Years ago my cousin, a real estate agent, recommended Napoleon Hill's "Think 
and Go Rich".  I read some it but what stood out was that it was like the  
TM-Sidhi's program and this book was published in the early 20th century.  IOW, 
there is nothing new under the sun.  The techniques of samyama have been around 
for ages.  They are at the core of much of Indian yoga and philosophy.
 
 We don't understand consciousness very well.  This goes for the scientific 
community too which is just beginning to study it.  What I meant about the 
placebo effect is why if you give one group a real medicine and another a sugar 
pill why does the second group still get results?  I've tested this myself and 
am able to manifest the effects of herbs and vitamin supplements (especially 
minerals) without actually taking them.  I can also shift my body state by 
doing samyama on the desired state. 
 
 If people here haven't watched it yet and indeed it is a long interview, 
Rick's interview with Robert Svoboda, whose ayurvedic workshops I attended, is 
VERY insightful.  I like how he talks about modern medicine and his opinion 
which I've thought for years is they often don't know why some medicine will 
work and they make it sound like it is a supernatural phenomenon.  Whereas 
natural healers who actually pay attention to biochemistry and physics do 
understand how something works.
 
 On 04/11/2014 10:59 AM, LEnglish5@... mailto:LEnglish5@... wrote:
 
   One assumes that Maharishi chose a subset of the siddhis mentioned in 
Patanjali that he thought were most beneficial, as he didn't include all of 
them in the TM-SIddhis practices -not even all of  the ones he originally 
experimented with.
 

 If you look at the categories of practices, they appear to cover a very broad 
range, so I'm curious: which vital/important categories of siddhis do you think 
he left out?
 

 I mean, in theory, just about anything could be seen as potentially a siddhi, 
when the action is performed by a fully enlightened person. What activities 
would provide better "stitches" between relative and absolute, do you think?
 

 L
 
 
 ---In Fairfield

Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[Richard J. Williams]

On 4/11/2014 12:01 PM, Michael Jackson wrote:
> I rarely read your posts Richy since you are s whacked out but 
> this one is so full of shit I had to reply
 >
You got mixed up in your zeal to discredit MMY. The aim of traditional 
qigong practice is enlightenment and cultivation of life energy -chi = 
ME. Go figure.

"Qigong, chi kung, or chi gung , literally "Life Energy Cultivation", is 
a practice of aligning body, breath, and mind for health, meditation, 
and martial arts training. With roots in Chinese medicine, philosophy, 
and martial arts, qigong is traditionally viewed as a practice to 
cultivate and balance qi (chi) or what has been translated as "life energy".

Qigong:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qigong


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[FairfieldLife] Re: Scientifically Validated

[authfriend]

I do remember that, yes. And so...what? Were you thinking I'd have endorsed 
that claim? Did you think it had anything to do with what I was saying about 
the morning sun study?
 

 

 

 And do you remember that forest fire a few years back that didn't affect any 
vastu homes? What did the TMO claim about that? Invincibility that's what, 
"nature won't allow you to be harmed if you live in vastu" etc.
 

 I put it to the test and wrote to the journalist who covered the fire story in 
the local paper and, what a surprise, he had a rather different story to tell 
about rapidly shifting winds affecting some houses but not others in a 
seemingly random way. And the simple fact that the vastu development was too 
new to have foliage that could spread the fire to the houses. He was there and 
was highly unconvinced there was anything spooky involved. 
 

 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Rubbish yourself. It's not at all obvious they were trying to make woo-woo of 
it. "Vindication," quite possibly, but that's not at all the same thing. And it 
might well be relevant to whatever Vastu says about sunlight in the home. From 
what I've read, many Vastu principles have nothing to do with "woo-woo," 
they're just about making one's living environment as healthy as possible. 

 I sleep in my living room because its windows face east, and I've always felt 
more energized when I wake up to morning sunlight. Nothing to do with TM (or 
depression, bi- or monopolar, for that matter). 

 No, never saw the stuff about the brain working "better" when it's facing east.
 

 I think your "bipolar sleep resetting" idea is something of a stretch. Sure 
would be interesting to see the whole study, see what the authors made of their 
results, whether they suggested a possible mechanism for the effect.
 

 

 

 Rubbish, it wouldn't be the first time they'd picked something irrelevant or 
vaguely samey sounding and held it up as vindication. And it was in a classroom 
studying vastu, so it's pretty obvious what sort of hay they are trying to 
make. 

  Remember all the BS the TMO co-opted about the brain working "better" when 
it's facing east? It made a lot of TM brochures and broadcasts and there was a 
link to the Journal of Neurophysiology which, when followed, led you to a bunch 
of papers about how rats find their way about in the dark. There wasn't even 
any preference among the rat brains for any particular direction. My guess is 
they think people don't follow links.
 

 What did you think of my ideas about bipolar dawn sleep resetting? Rather good 
for a breakfast post I thought
 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Salyavin, we don't know what kind of hay the TMO was trying to make with this 
study (the MUMOSA guy doesn't bother to tell us). For all we know, it was 
simply that Vastu principles are in accord with current scientific thinking, 
nothing woo-woo about it.
 

 

 

 Just thinking out loud because I can't afford to read every science paper I'd 
like to either, but if it is something like this then what right have the TMO 
got to claim woo woo? And it doesn't even make sense if they do because you'd 
have to have an east facing bedroom (and not all of them are) and it would 
matter if the front door faced south even as we're talking about windows.
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Scientifically Validated

[authfriend]

I never said they wouldn't grasp at any straws etc. We just don't have any 
evidence they were grasping at woo-woo straws in this case (or that this 
particular straw wasn't perfectly sound). It irritates the hell out of me when 
people make mountains out of molehills while ignoring the damn mountains. If 
that's the best evidence the MUMOSA dude has against TM research--that the 
Vastu instructor didn't know the length of the patients' hospitalizations 
offhand (in a non-TM study, no less!)--the TMO has nothing to worry about. I 
think the MUMOSA guy was just extremely pleased with himself that he asked a 
smart question and simply couldn't resist writing it up as though it were some 
huge deal. 

 

 

 Vastu is just common sense from an iron age farmers perspective. Kitchen in 
the coolest place, ability to tell the solstices from looking out the front 
door etc. Maybe there's a bit of folk wisdom in waking up facing the sun being 
better for you. 

 Where it all goes wrong is when the TMO introduce woo woo concepts like 
perfect health and invincibility and start telling people that meditating in a 
vastu home is like doing it in a group of a thousand. It isn't, but you might 
be able to kid yourself if you are a believer. 
 

 Most people I know who rushed to get into vastu actually thought it would 
solve all their problems and be the final missing link in enlightenment. It 
isn't, it's just a house. I know loads of people that live in them and I have 
stayed with them many times and will do again. But they got their hopelessly 
unrealistic ideas from somewhere. If you've ever been on a vastu course you'll 
know the answer to that one.
 

 I'd like one simply so I can see the sun rise on midsummer morning directly 
opposite the front door. But I'm a bit pagan.
 

 BTW the "rubbish" came from my disbelief that anyone here would think, after 
all these years, that people in the TMO won't grasp at any straw available to 
prop up their belief system. It's an article of faith in the TMO that your 
brain works better when facing east. I had a Dr of physics explain to me that 
it's because that's the direction the Earth turns. Go figure.
 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Rubbish yourself. It's not at all obvious they were trying to make woo-woo of 
it. "Vindication," quite possibly, but that's not at all the same thing. And it 
might well be relevant to whatever Vastu says about sunlight in the home. From 
what I've read, many Vastu principles have nothing to do with "woo-woo," 
they're just about making one's living environment as healthy as possible. 

 I sleep in my living room because its windows face east, and I've always felt 
more energized when I wake up to morning sunlight. Nothing to do with TM (or 
depression, bi- or monopolar, for that matter). 

 No, never saw the stuff about the brain working "better" when it's facing east.
 

 I think your "bipolar sleep resetting" idea is something of a stretch. Sure 
would be interesting to see the whole study, see what the authors made of their 
results, whether they suggested a possible mechanism for the effect.
 

 

 

 Rubbish, it wouldn't be the first time they'd picked something irrelevant or 
vaguely samey sounding and held it up as vindication. And it was in a classroom 
studying vastu, so it's pretty obvious what sort of hay they are trying to 
make. 

  Remember all the BS the TMO co-opted about the brain working "better" when 
it's facing east? It made a lot of TM brochures and broadcasts and there was a 
link to the Journal of Neurophysiology which, when followed, led you to a bunch 
of papers about how rats find their way about in the dark. There wasn't even 
any preference among the rat brains for any particular direction. My guess is 
they think people don't follow links.
 

 What did you think of my ideas about bipolar dawn sleep resetting? Rather good 
for a breakfast post I thought
 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Salyavin, we don't know what kind of hay the TMO was trying to make with this 
study (the MUMOSA guy doesn't bother to tell us). For all we know, it was 
simply that Vastu principles are in accord with current scientific thinking, 
nothing woo-woo about it.
 

 

 

 Just thinking out loud because I can't afford to read every science paper I'd 
like to either, but if it is something like this then what right have the TMO 
got to claim woo woo? And it doesn't even make sense if they do because you'd 
have to have an east facing bedroom (and not all of them are) and it would 
matter if the front door faced south even as we're talking about windows.
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[salyavin808]

 Ah, if only the plural of anecdote was data...

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Thank you. How about his second question, do you have any comments on that? 

 "I mean, in theory, just about anything could be seen as potentially a siddhi, 
when the action is performed by a fully enlightened person. What activities 
would provide better "stitches" between relative and absolute, do you think?"
 

 With regard to hopping and muscle power, I partly agree--my experience has 
been that I'm using my muscles, but they aren't being controlled by the usual 
brain pathways somehow. It's more like a sneeze or a knee-jerk reflex or a 
yawn. Like you, I'm no athlete, but hopping never tired me out. And it's 
definitely triggered by the sutra, which in my case fairly quickly became just 
an impulse of something like electricity, a little tingle, no discernible 
words. With a group that was actively hopping, that impulse seemed to be in the 
air from all the people who were generating it.
 

 Before I took the TM-Sidhis course, I was at the home of a friend who was a 
governor. We did our program before dinner; she went into another room and 
closed the door because she was doing the TM-Sidhis and I wasn't.  I started 
meditating about 45 minutes later, and was surprised to suddenly feel that 
tingle, on and off. Had no idea what it was, it was totally unexpected. And I 
couldn't hear her hopping--I don't know if she actually was physically hopping, 
but I would have been feeling it while she was doing the flying sutra. It was 
only during my flying block that I realized it was the same tingle.
 

 

 

 Which question?  The one about what siddhis were left out?  I'm not sure the 
Patanjali even covered the Vamachari Siddhis which are what I learned in 
tantra.  They are given out carefully because they can be misused.  In fact the 
Maran siddhis are only learned to help people who have afflicted by someone 
misusing them (aka "black magic").
 
 There have been tales of the sutras that were tested on the AofE courses that 
were left out, some with unpredictable results.  BTW, I've never thought YF 
depended on muscular activity because I by no means am no athlete yet by no 
effort did I go zipping through the air.  I also was not exhausted at the end 
of the practice.  The siddhis created a blast of shakti with me however not as 
thick as butter as the guru mantra my tantric guru gave me.
 
 
 On 04/11/2014 11:37 AM, authfriend@... mailto:authfriend@... wrote:
 
   I'd be interested in your response to Lawson's questions, Bhairitu, if you 
have one.
 
 
 
 
 You sure have a "lofty" opinion of Maharishi.  He's just an Indian guy who was 
a monk and decided to teach meditation.  There are lots of folks like that in 
India.  ;-)  
 Years ago my cousin, a real estate agent, recommended Napoleon Hill's "Think 
and Go Rich".  I read some it but what stood out was that it was like the  
TM-Sidhi's program and this book was published in the early 20th century.  IOW, 
there is nothing new under the sun.  The techniques of samyama have been around 
for ages.  They are at the core of much of Indian yoga and philosophy.
 
 We don't understand consciousness very well.  This goes for the scientific 
community too which is just beginning to study it.  What I meant about the 
placebo effect is why if you give one group a real medicine and another a sugar 
pill why does the second group still get results?  I've tested this myself and 
am able to manifest the effects of herbs and vitamin supplements (especially 
minerals) without actually taking them.  I can also shift my body state by 
doing samyama on the desired state. 
 
 If people here haven't watched it yet and indeed it is a long interview, 
Rick's interview with Robert Svoboda, whose ayurvedic workshops I attended, is 
VERY insightful.  I like how he talks about modern medicine and his opinion 
which I've thought for years is they often don't know why some medicine will 
work and they make it sound like it is a supernatural phenomenon.  Whereas 
natural healers who actually pay attention to biochemistry and physics do 
understand how something works.
 
 On 04/11/2014 10:59 AM, LEnglish5@... mailto:LEnglish5@... wrote:
 
   One assumes that Maharishi chose a subset of the siddhis mentioned in 
Patanjali that he thought were most beneficial, as he didn't include all of 
them in the TM-SIddhis practices -not even all of  the ones he originally 
experimented with.
 

 If you look at the categories of practices, they appear to cover a very broad 
range, so I'm curious: which vital/important categories of siddhis do you think 
he left out?
 

 I mean, in theory, just about anything could be seen as potentially a siddhi, 
when the action is performed by a fully enlightened person. What activities 
would provide better "stitches" between relative and absolute, do you think?
 

 L
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:noozgu

[FairfieldLife] Re: Scientifically Validated

[salyavin808]

 And do you remember that forest fire a few years back that didn't affect any 
vastu homes? What did the TMO claim about that? Invincibility that's what, 
"nature won't allow you to be harmed if you live in vastu" etc.
 

 I put it to the test and wrote to the journalist who covered the fire story in 
the local paper and, what a surprise, he had a rather different story to tell 
about rapidly shifting winds affecting some houses but not others in a 
seemingly random way. And the simple fact that the vastu development was too 
new to have foliage that could spread the fire to the houses. He was there and 
was highly unconvinced there was anything spooky involved. 
 

 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Rubbish yourself. It's not at all obvious they were trying to make woo-woo of 
it. "Vindication," quite possibly, but that's not at all the same thing. And it 
might well be relevant to whatever Vastu says about sunlight in the home. From 
what I've read, many Vastu principles have nothing to do with "woo-woo," 
they're just about making one's living environment as healthy as possible. 

 I sleep in my living room because its windows face east, and I've always felt 
more energized when I wake up to morning sunlight. Nothing to do with TM (or 
depression, bi- or monopolar, for that matter). 

 No, never saw the stuff about the brain working "better" when it's facing east.
 

 I think your "bipolar sleep resetting" idea is something of a stretch. Sure 
would be interesting to see the whole study, see what the authors made of their 
results, whether they suggested a possible mechanism for the effect.
 

 

 

 Rubbish, it wouldn't be the first time they'd picked something irrelevant or 
vaguely samey sounding and held it up as vindication. And it was in a classroom 
studying vastu, so it's pretty obvious what sort of hay they are trying to 
make. 

  Remember all the BS the TMO co-opted about the brain working "better" when 
it's facing east? It made a lot of TM brochures and broadcasts and there was a 
link to the Journal of Neurophysiology which, when followed, led you to a bunch 
of papers about how rats find their way about in the dark. There wasn't even 
any preference among the rat brains for any particular direction. My guess is 
they think people don't follow links.
 

 What did you think of my ideas about bipolar dawn sleep resetting? Rather good 
for a breakfast post I thought
 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Salyavin, we don't know what kind of hay the TMO was trying to make with this 
study (the MUMOSA guy doesn't bother to tell us). For all we know, it was 
simply that Vastu principles are in accord with current scientific thinking, 
nothing woo-woo about it.
 

 

 

 Just thinking out loud because I can't afford to read every science paper I'd 
like to either, but if it is something like this then what right have the TMO 
got to claim woo woo? And it doesn't even make sense if they do because you'd 
have to have an east facing bedroom (and not all of them are) and it would 
matter if the front door faced south even as we're talking about windows.
 

[FairfieldLife] Fw: Join us for our Free Live Broadcast - You ARE the Placebo

[Share Long]

On Friday, April 11, 2014 3:06 PM, Dr. Joe Dispenza 
 wrote:
 
Two of the worlds preeminent authorities on neuroscience together 
Having trouble viewing this email? Click here 
 
BRAIN, MIND AND 
THE PLACEBO EFFECT 
  
  
  
  
Live Broadcast April 12th, 2014 
with Dr. Joe Dispenza and Dr. Jeffrey Fannin 
  
Join us on QuantumWorld.TV for a live and interactive event with Dr. Joe 
Dispenza and Dr. Jeffrey Fannin where we will be exploring the world of Brain, 
Mind, and the Placebo Effect through neuroscience and brain mapping. 
   
 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Scientifically Validated

[authfriend]

No, you misread me. Of course he was right to ask, and the teacher should have 
said he'd check and get back to him. But as I said, that's a pretty minor 
complaint. And we have no indication whatsoever that anything was "jimmied." As 
I pointed out, what the instructor put on the handout was exactly what the 
study authors put in their abstract, but your guy was too lazy to check that 
out, and he seems to have rejected TM-Vastu as a whole because the teacher 
didn't happen to have a number at his fingertips. It's just a really lame 
critique. 

 It's not surprising you dislike me, for the same reason Barry does: I don't 
let him get away with shit. In fact, though, normally I leave you pretty much 
alone, because at least you're not trying to deceive anybody. This particular 
post was just so off the wall I had to comment.
 

 
 Are you kin to Richard? You like he, spin off into some mindcrap and 
misinterpret everything that comes your way. 
 
 My point was not about the study itself, it was about the teachers handling of 
the subject matter. He didn't know what the answer was, and the student was 
absolutely correct to ask the question of the average hospital stay. 
 
 If as he said the average stay was one week, then the reduction of the stay by 
more than 3 days is very significant, but if the stay was 50 or 100 days, the 
study is much less significant. 
 
 My point was and is that the TMO and all its boosters and apologists will 
clutch at the slightest straws and use statistical evidence that is at best 
jimmied to show what the TMO wants it to show, much like the Big Pharam 
companies and companies like Monsanto do. How bout that, the TMO using the same 
bs techniques that Monsanto uses?
 
 I feel sure you will use my reply to blabber and blather on about how wrong I 
am - again, I see why Barry dislikes you so very much.
 
 On Fri, 4/11/14, authfriend@... mailto:authfriend@... mailto:authfriend@...> wrote:
 
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Scientifically Validated
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Friday, April 11, 2014, 7:37 PM

 OK, I took another
 look at the MUMOSA post, and your paean is ridiculous. This
 study wasn't TM-related at all; and your guy found
 NOTHING WHATSOEVER to indicate it was "baloney."
 The instructor simply copied the published study abstract
 for the handout (go look for yourself, as both Salyavin and
 I did, but your guy didn't).
 The
 abstract didn't say how long the average
 hospitalizations were; it simply said the length of
 hospitalization for each of the patients in the study had
 been recorded (that's what it says on the handout). The
 full study surely reports those figures, or it wouldn't
 have been published. Your guy found no smoking gun in the
 abstract, and he didn't do his homework. Pretty pallid
 effort. And good grief, if that's the only complaint he
 has about the TM research...
 
 Excellent, excellent post
 by the master of the new MUMOSA website, underscoring how
 the much ballyhooed "science" shoring up TM is
 often baloney.
 http://mumosa.com/mum-stories/maximum-vastu-fail.html 
http://mumosa.com/mum-stories/maximum-vastu-fail.html 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Scientifically Validated

[salyavin808]

Vastu is just common sense from an iron age farmers perspective. Kitchen in the 
coolest place, ability to tell the solstices from looking out the front door 
etc. Maybe there's a bit of folk wisdom in waking up facing the sun being 
better for you. 

 Where it all goes wrong is when the TMO introduce woo woo concepts like 
perfect health and invincibility and start telling people that meditating in a 
vastu home is like doing it in a group of a thousand. It isn't, but you might 
be able to kid yourself if you are a believer. 
 

 Most people I know who rushed to get into vastu actually thought it would 
solve all their problems and be the final missing link in enlightenment. It 
isn't, it's just a house. I know loads of people that live in them and I have 
stayed with them many times and will do again. But they got their hopelessly 
unrealistic ideas from somewhere. If you've ever been on a vastu course you'll 
know the answer to that one.
 

 I'd like one simply so I can see the sun rise on midsummer morning directly 
opposite the front door. But I'm a bit pagan.
 

 BTW the "rubbish" came from my disbelief that anyone here would think, after 
all these years, that people in the TMO won't grasp at any straw available to 
prop up their belief system. It's an article of faith in the TMO that your 
brain works better when facing east. I had a Dr of physics explain to me that 
it's because that's the direction the Earth turns. Go figure.
 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Rubbish yourself. It's not at all obvious they were trying to make woo-woo of 
it. "Vindication," quite possibly, but that's not at all the same thing. And it 
might well be relevant to whatever Vastu says about sunlight in the home. From 
what I've read, many Vastu principles have nothing to do with "woo-woo," 
they're just about making one's living environment as healthy as possible. 

 I sleep in my living room because its windows face east, and I've always felt 
more energized when I wake up to morning sunlight. Nothing to do with TM (or 
depression, bi- or monopolar, for that matter). 

 No, never saw the stuff about the brain working "better" when it's facing east.
 

 I think your "bipolar sleep resetting" idea is something of a stretch. Sure 
would be interesting to see the whole study, see what the authors made of their 
results, whether they suggested a possible mechanism for the effect.
 

 

 

 Rubbish, it wouldn't be the first time they'd picked something irrelevant or 
vaguely samey sounding and held it up as vindication. And it was in a classroom 
studying vastu, so it's pretty obvious what sort of hay they are trying to 
make. 

  Remember all the BS the TMO co-opted about the brain working "better" when 
it's facing east? It made a lot of TM brochures and broadcasts and there was a 
link to the Journal of Neurophysiology which, when followed, led you to a bunch 
of papers about how rats find their way about in the dark. There wasn't even 
any preference among the rat brains for any particular direction. My guess is 
they think people don't follow links.
 

 What did you think of my ideas about bipolar dawn sleep resetting? Rather good 
for a breakfast post I thought
 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Salyavin, we don't know what kind of hay the TMO was trying to make with this 
study (the MUMOSA guy doesn't bother to tell us). For all we know, it was 
simply that Vastu principles are in accord with current scientific thinking, 
nothing woo-woo about it.
 

 

 

 Just thinking out loud because I can't afford to read every science paper I'd 
like to either, but if it is something like this then what right have the TMO 
got to claim woo woo? And it doesn't even make sense if they do because you'd 
have to have an east facing bedroom (and not all of them are) and it would 
matter if the front door faced south even as we're talking about windows.
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[Bhairitu]

On 04/11/2014 01:14 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote:


Thank you. How about his second question, do you have any comments on 
that?



"I mean, in theory, just about anything could be seen as potentially a 
siddhi, when the action is performed by a fully enlightened person. 
What activities would provide better "stitches" between relative and 
absolute, do you think?"


TM always had the claim of being to "fulfill desires."  We have little 
idea about how much our daily desires are actually by us thinking about 
them (true even for non-meditators) or is it just destiny?  And why 
can't you just desire wealth and it doesn't seem to come?  The latter 
seems to have more to do with karma than anything else.  And maybe the 
Kochs and Sheldon Aldelson are being testing (and flunking miserably).


BTW, here is a 1937 interview with Napoleon Hlll. Notice what he says at 
the opening (which is all I've had time to watch so far).


http://youtu.be/UmCtWskzmAQ



With regard to hopping and muscle power, I partly agree--my experience 
has been that I'm using my muscles, but they aren't being controlled 
by the usual brain pathways somehow. It's more like a sneeze or a 
knee-jerk reflex or a yawn. Like you, I'm no athlete, but hopping 
never tired me out. And it's definitely triggered by the sutra, which 
in my case fairly quickly became just an impulse of something like 
electricity, a little tingle, no discernible words. With a group that 
was actively hopping, that impulse seemed to be in the air from all 
the people who were generating it.


Before I took the TM-Sidhis course, I was at the home of a friend who 
was a governor. We did our program before dinner; she went into 
another room and closed the door because she was doing the TM-Sidhis 
and I wasn't.  I started meditating about 45 minutes later, and was 
surprised to suddenly feel that tingle, on and off. Had no idea what 
it was, it was totally unexpected. And I couldn't hear her hopping--I 
don't know if she actually was physically hopping, but I would have 
been feeling it while she was doing the flying sutra. It was only 
during my flying block that I realized it was the same tingle.


Some of the governors in my area also did the Sidhis in segments or on 
A&E courses but started hopping before they got the sutra. The only link 
was that many of these people had been reading Muktananda's books.  
Something to do with his shakti maybe?  Who knows.






Which question?  The one about what siddhis were left out?  I'm not 
sure the Patanjali even covered the Vamachari Siddhis which are what I 
learned in tantra.  They are given out carefully because they can be 
misused.  In fact the Maran siddhis are only learned to help people 
who have afflicted by someone misusing them (aka "black magic").


There have been tales of the sutras that were tested on the AofE 
courses that were left out, some with unpredictable results.  BTW, 
I've never thought YF depended on muscular activity because I by no 
means am no athlete yet by no effort did I go zipping through the 
air.  I also was not exhausted at the end of the practice. The siddhis 
created a blast of shakti with me however not as thick as butter as 
the guru mantra my tantric guru gave me.



On 04/11/2014 11:37 AM, authfriend@...  wrote:

*I'd be interested in your response to Lawson's questions, Bhairitu, 
if you have one.*




You sure have a "lofty" opinion of Maharishi.  He's just an Indian 
guy who was a monk and decided to teach meditation.  There are lots 
of folks like that in India. ;-)


Years ago my cousin, a real estate agent, recommended Napoleon Hill's 
"Think and Go Rich".  I read some it but what stood out was that it 
was like the  TM-Sidhi's program and this book was published in the 
early 20th century.  IOW, there is nothing new under the sun.  The 
techniques of samyama have been around for ages.  They are at the 
core of much of Indian yoga and philosophy.


We don't understand consciousness very well.  This goes for the 
scientific community too which is just beginning to study it. What I 
meant about the placebo effect is why if you give one group a real 
medicine and another a sugar pill why does the second group still get 
results?  I've tested this myself and am able to manifest the effects 
of herbs and vitamin supplements (especially minerals) without 
actually taking them.  I can also shift my body state by doing 
samyama on the desired state.


If people here haven't watched it yet and indeed it is a long 
interview, Rick's interview with Robert Svoboda, whose ayurvedic 
workshops I attended, is VERY insightful. I like how he talks about 
modern medicine and his opinion which I've thought for years is they 
often don't know why some medicine will work and they make it sound 
like it is a supernatural phenomenon. Whereas natural healers who 
actually pay attention to biochemistry and physics do understand how 
something works.


On 04/11/2014 10:

[FairfieldLife] Re: Scientifically Validated

[authfriend]

Rubbish yourself. It's not at all obvious they were trying to make woo-woo of 
it. "Vindication," quite possibly, but that's not at all the same thing. And it 
might well be relevant to whatever Vastu says about sunlight in the home. From 
what I've read, many Vastu principles have nothing to do with "woo-woo," 
they're just about making one's living environment as healthy as possible. 

 I sleep in my living room because its windows face east, and I've always felt 
more energized when I wake up to morning sunlight. Nothing to do with TM (or 
depression, bi- or monopolar, for that matter). 

 No, never saw the stuff about the brain working "better" when it's facing east.
 

 I think your "bipolar sleep resetting" idea is something of a stretch. Sure 
would be interesting to see the whole study, see what the authors made of their 
results, whether they suggested a possible mechanism for the effect.
 

 

 

 Rubbish, it wouldn't be the first time they'd picked something irrelevant or 
vaguely samey sounding and held it up as vindication. And it was in a classroom 
studying vastu, so it's pretty obvious what sort of hay they are trying to 
make. 

  Remember all the BS the TMO co-opted about the brain working "better" when 
it's facing east? It made a lot of TM brochures and broadcasts and there was a 
link to the Journal of Neurophysiology which, when followed, led you to a bunch 
of papers about how rats find their way about in the dark. There wasn't even 
any preference among the rat brains for any particular direction. My guess is 
they think people don't follow links.
 

 What did you think of my ideas about bipolar dawn sleep resetting? Rather good 
for a breakfast post I thought
 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Salyavin, we don't know what kind of hay the TMO was trying to make with this 
study (the MUMOSA guy doesn't bother to tell us). For all we know, it was 
simply that Vastu principles are in accord with current scientific thinking, 
nothing woo-woo about it.
 

 

 

 Just thinking out loud because I can't afford to read every science paper I'd 
like to either, but if it is something like this then what right have the TMO 
got to claim woo woo? And it doesn't even make sense if they do because you'd 
have to have an east facing bedroom (and not all of them are) and it would 
matter if the front door faced south even as we're talking about windows.
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[authfriend]

Thank you. How about his second question, do you have any comments on that? 

 "I mean, in theory, just about anything could be seen as potentially a siddhi, 
when the action is performed by a fully enlightened person. What activities 
would provide better "stitches" between relative and absolute, do you think?"
 

 With regard to hopping and muscle power, I partly agree--my experience has 
been that I'm using my muscles, but they aren't being controlled by the usual 
brain pathways somehow. It's more like a sneeze or a knee-jerk reflex or a 
yawn. Like you, I'm no athlete, but hopping never tired me out. And it's 
definitely triggered by the sutra, which in my case fairly quickly became just 
an impulse of something like electricity, a little tingle, no discernible 
words. With a group that was actively hopping, that impulse seemed to be in the 
air from all the people who were generating it.
 

 Before I took the TM-Sidhis course, I was at the home of a friend who was a 
governor. We did our program before dinner; she went into another room and 
closed the door because she was doing the TM-Sidhis and I wasn't.  I started 
meditating about 45 minutes later, and was surprised to suddenly feel that 
tingle, on and off. Had no idea what it was, it was totally unexpected. And I 
couldn't hear her hopping--I don't know if she actually was physically hopping, 
but I would have been feeling it while she was doing the flying sutra. It was 
only during my flying block that I realized it was the same tingle.
 

 

 

 Which question?  The one about what siddhis were left out?  I'm not sure the 
Patanjali even covered the Vamachari Siddhis which are what I learned in 
tantra.  They are given out carefully because they can be misused.  In fact the 
Maran siddhis are only learned to help people who have afflicted by someone 
misusing them (aka "black magic").
 
 There have been tales of the sutras that were tested on the AofE courses that 
were left out, some with unpredictable results.  BTW, I've never thought YF 
depended on muscular activity because I by no means am no athlete yet by no 
effort did I go zipping through the air.  I also was not exhausted at the end 
of the practice.  The siddhis created a blast of shakti with me however not as 
thick as butter as the guru mantra my tantric guru gave me.
 
 
 On 04/11/2014 11:37 AM, authfriend@... mailto:authfriend@... wrote:
 
   I'd be interested in your response to Lawson's questions, Bhairitu, if you 
have one.
 
 
 
 
 You sure have a "lofty" opinion of Maharishi.  He's just an Indian guy who was 
a monk and decided to teach meditation.  There are lots of folks like that in 
India.  ;-)  
 Years ago my cousin, a real estate agent, recommended Napoleon Hill's "Think 
and Go Rich".  I read some it but what stood out was that it was like the  
TM-Sidhi's program and this book was published in the early 20th century.  IOW, 
there is nothing new under the sun.  The techniques of samyama have been around 
for ages.  They are at the core of much of Indian yoga and philosophy.
 
 We don't understand consciousness very well.  This goes for the scientific 
community too which is just beginning to study it.  What I meant about the 
placebo effect is why if you give one group a real medicine and another a sugar 
pill why does the second group still get results?  I've tested this myself and 
am able to manifest the effects of herbs and vitamin supplements (especially 
minerals) without actually taking them.  I can also shift my body state by 
doing samyama on the desired state. 
 
 If people here haven't watched it yet and indeed it is a long interview, 
Rick's interview with Robert Svoboda, whose ayurvedic workshops I attended, is 
VERY insightful.  I like how he talks about modern medicine and his opinion 
which I've thought for years is they often don't know why some medicine will 
work and they make it sound like it is a supernatural phenomenon.  Whereas 
natural healers who actually pay attention to biochemistry and physics do 
understand how something works.
 
 On 04/11/2014 10:59 AM, LEnglish5@... mailto:LEnglish5@... wrote:
 
   One assumes that Maharishi chose a subset of the siddhis mentioned in 
Patanjali that he thought were most beneficial, as he didn't include all of 
them in the TM-SIddhis practices -not even all of  the ones he originally 
experimented with.
 

 If you look at the categories of practices, they appear to cover a very broad 
range, so I'm curious: which vital/important categories of siddhis do you think 
he left out?
 

 I mean, in theory, just about anything could be seen as potentially a siddhi, 
when the action is performed by a fully enlightened person. What activities 
would provide better "stitches" between relative and absolute, do you think?
 

 L
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:noozguru@... wrote :
 
 Of course.  They are very interesting and powerful techniques.  They do things 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Scientifically Validated

[salyavin808]

 Rubbish, it wouldn't be the first time they'd picked something irrelevant or 
vaguely samey sounding and held it up as vindication. And it was in a classroom 
studying vastu, so it's pretty obvious what sort of hay they are trying to make.
 

  Remember all the BS the TMO co-opted about the brain working "better" when 
it's facing east? It made a lot of TM brochures and broadcasts and there was a 
link to the Journal of Neurophysiology which, when followed, led you to a bunch 
of papers about how rats find their way about in the dark. There wasn't even 
any preference among the rat brains for any particular direction. My guess is 
they think people don't follow links.
 

 What did you think of my ideas about bipolar dawn sleep resetting? Rather good 
for a breakfast post I thought
 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Salyavin, we don't know what kind of hay the TMO was trying to make with this 
study (the MUMOSA guy doesn't bother to tell us). For all we know, it was 
simply that Vastu principles are in accord with current scientific thinking, 
nothing woo-woo about it.
 

 

 

 Just thinking out loud because I can't afford to read every science paper I'd 
like to either, but if it is something like this then what right have the TMO 
got to claim woo woo? And it doesn't even make sense if they do because you'd 
have to have an east facing bedroom (and not all of them are) and it would 
matter if the front door faced south even as we're talking about windows.
 

[FairfieldLife] Kewl excerpt from YSU!

[cardemaister]

Somewhat intriguing excerpt from yogashikhopaniSat (yoga-shikha-upanishad):

 ...|
 Walk through the inner stages of Mantra-, Laya-, Hatha- and Raja-Yoga, ||129|| 
 this is indeed a unique fourfold Maha-Yoga. |
 Exhale with the sound HA and inhale again with the sound SA, ||130|| 
 this way all living beings do chant the Mantra "hamsa hamsa". |
 The other way around the Yogi should recite this Mantra – after instruction by 
his teacher - in the Sushumna. ||131|| 
 "SO-HAM, I am it, ´I am it´ recited this way is called Mantra-Yoga. |
 Through understanding of the Mantra-Yoga the Yogi will be directly born onto 
the path of liberation. ||132|| 
 It is said that in the sound HA the sun is contained, in the sound SA the 
moon. |
 Hatha-Yoga means uniting of sun and moon. ||133|| 
 When the individual and the universal sould became united, Hatha-Yoga |
 then swallows the lethargy, the result of the basic characteristics of human 
beings. ||134|| 
 When the unity is perfected the changeable (Chitta) in the human being is 
absorbed in the Absolute (Brahma). |
 The goal of Laya-Yoga will be reached through the resulting rest of the life 
force (Prana). ||135|| 
 Through the sublime state of Laya bliss will be achieved out of itself. |
 This is localised in the holy shrine in the middle of the Vagina (Yoni),
 comparable with the Hibiskus- or Dupurmoni- blossom. ||136|| 
 Hidden in all living beings the essence of the goddess lies dormant as vaginal 
secretion (Rajas). |
 Hence it is handed down that Raja-Yoga evolves from the unification of male 
semen (Retas) and female vaginal secretion (Rajas). ||137|| 
 If Raja-Yoga is reached, supernatural powers (Siddhi) are achievable. |
 Typical for the fourfold Yoga is always the unification of ascending energy 
(Prana) with descending energy(Apana). ||138|| 
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Scientifically Validated

[authfriend]

Salyavin, we don't know what kind of hay the TMO was trying to make with this 
study (the MUMOSA guy doesn't bother to tell us). For all we know, it was 
simply that Vastu principles are in accord with current scientific thinking, 
nothing woo-woo about it.
 

 

 

 Just thinking out loud because I can't afford to read every science paper I'd 
like to either, but if it is something like this then what right have the TMO 
got to claim woo woo? And it doesn't even make sense if they do because you'd 
have to have an east facing bedroom (and not all of them are) and it would 
matter if the front door faced south even as we're talking about windows.
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Scientifically Validated

[authfriend]

Salyavin, we don't know what kind of hay the TMO was trying to make with this 
study (the MUMOSA guy doesn't bother to tell us). For all we know, it was 
simply that Vastu principles are in accord with current scientific thinking, 
nothing woo-woo about it.
 

 

 

 Just thinking out loud because I can't afford to read every science paper I'd 
like to either, but if it is something like this then what right have the TMO 
got to claim woo woo? And it doesn't even make sense if they do because you'd 
have to have an east facing bedroom (and not all of them are) and it would 
matter if the front door faced south even as we're talking about windows.
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Scientifically Validated

[Michael Jackson]

Are you kin to Richard? You like he, spin off into some mindcrap and 
misinterpret everything that comes your way. 

My point was not about the study itself, it was about the teachers handling of 
the subject matter. He didn't know what the answer was, and the student was 
absolutely correct to ask the question of the average hospital stay. 

If as he said the average stay was one week, then the reduction of the stay by 
more than 3 days is very significant, but if the stay was 50 or 100 days, the 
study is much less significant. 

My point was and is that the TMO and all its boosters and apologists will 
clutch at the slightest straws and use statistical evidence that is at best 
jimmied to show what the TMO wants it to show, much like the Big Pharam 
companies and companies like Monsanto do. How bout that, the TMO using the same 
bs techniques that Monsanto uses?

I feel sure you will use my reply to blabber and blather on about how wrong I 
am - again, I see why Barry dislikes you so very much.

On Fri, 4/11/14, authfri...@yahoo.com  wrote:

 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Scientifically Validated
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Friday, April 11, 2014, 7:37 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
   
   
   OK, I took another
 look at the MUMOSA post, and your paean is ridiculous. This
 study wasn't TM-related at all; and your guy found
 NOTHING WHATSOEVER to indicate it was "baloney."
 The instructor simply copied the published study abstract
 for the handout (go look for yourself, as both Salyavin and
 I did, but your guy didn't).
 The
 abstract didn't say how long the average
 hospitalizations were; it simply said the length of
 hospitalization for each of the patients in the study had
 been recorded (that's what it says on the handout). The
 full study surely reports those figures, or it wouldn't
 have been published. Your guy found no smoking gun in the
 abstract, and he didn't do his homework. Pretty pallid
 effort. And good grief, if that's the only complaint he
 has about the TM research...
 
 Excellent, excellent post
 by the master of the new MUMOSA website, underscoring how
 the much ballyhooed "science" shoring up TM is
 often baloney.
 http://mumosa.com/mum-stories/maximum-vastu-fail.html
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[Bhairitu]

Which question?  The one about what siddhis were left out?  I'm not sure 
the Patanjali even covered the Vamachari Siddhis which are what I 
learned in tantra.  They are given out carefully because they can be 
misused.  In fact the Maran siddhis are only learned to help people who 
have afflicted by someone misusing them (aka "black magic").


There have been tales of the sutras that were tested on the AofE courses 
that were left out, some with unpredictable results.  BTW, I've never 
thought YF depended on muscular activity because I by no means am no 
athlete yet by no effort did I go zipping through the air.  I also was 
not exhausted at the end of the practice. The siddhis created a blast of 
shakti with me however not as thick as butter as the guru mantra my 
tantric guru gave me.



On 04/11/2014 11:37 AM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote:


*I'd be interested in your response to Lawson's questions, Bhairitu, 
if you have one.*




You sure have a "lofty" opinion of Maharishi.  He's just an Indian guy 
who was a monk and decided to teach meditation.  There are lots of 
folks like that in India. ;-)


Years ago my cousin, a real estate agent, recommended Napoleon Hill's 
"Think and Go Rich".  I read some it but what stood out was that it 
was like the  TM-Sidhi's program and this book was published in the 
early 20th century.  IOW, there is nothing new under the sun.  The 
techniques of samyama have been around for ages.  They are at the core 
of much of Indian yoga and philosophy.


We don't understand consciousness very well.  This goes for the 
scientific community too which is just beginning to study it. What I 
meant about the placebo effect is why if you give one group a real 
medicine and another a sugar pill why does the second group still get 
results?  I've tested this myself and am able to manifest the effects 
of herbs and vitamin supplements (especially minerals) without 
actually taking them.  I can also shift my body state by doing samyama 
on the desired state.


If people here haven't watched it yet and indeed it is a long 
interview, Rick's interview with Robert Svoboda, whose ayurvedic 
workshops I attended, is VERY insightful.  I like how he talks about 
modern medicine and his opinion which I've thought for years is they 
often don't know why some medicine will work and they make it sound 
like it is a supernatural phenomenon. Whereas natural healers who 
actually pay attention to biochemistry and physics do understand how 
something works.


On 04/11/2014 10:59 AM, LEnglish5@...  wrote:

One assumes that Maharishi chose a subset of the siddhis mentioned in 
Patanjali that he thought were most beneficial, as he didn't include 
all of them in the TM-SIddhis practices -not even all of  the ones he 
originally experimented with.



If you look at the categories of practices, they appear to cover a 
very broad range, so I'm curious: which vital/important categories of 
siddhis do you think he left out?


I mean, in theory, just about anything could be seen as potentially a 
siddhi, when the action is performed by a fully enlightened person. 
What activities would provide better "stitches" between relative and 
absolute, do you think?


L


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
,  
 wrote :


Of course. They are very interesting and powerful techniques.  They 
do things that are not taught in the TM Sidhis.


On 04/10/2014 10:04 AM, salyavin808 wrote:


Hey cool, Bhairitu got the real deal! Do you still do them?

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
,  
 wrote :


On 04/10/2014 05:10 AM, salyavin808 wrote:




We were all disappointed when we found out it was in English, I
was hoping for some super-mantra things.


The tantric siddhis I learned are "super-mantra things". 
They're all in Sanskrit.  But we also translated them.  And they

work pretty much the same way that sutras in English do.

[FairfieldLife] BATGAP Question

[Michael Jackson]

Rick, do you think you might ever do a BATGAP interview with Michael Roads, the 
Australian guy?

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[nablusoss1008]

 It would explain why the Turq "sees" Dragons and other weird stuff too :-)

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Nabs, 

 That's an excellent observation!
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 Probably the Rama-fellow was high on drugs and forgot to snap his fingers 
saying "wake up" after one of his mass-hypnosis :-)

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 My gosh, are you saying that Barry has been hypnotized by Rama and doesn't 
even know that he's been programmed to post anti-TM propaganda all of these 
years?
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 On 4/10/2014 2:43 PM, jr_esq@... mailto:jr_esq@... wrote:
 > It could be that the TM siddhis are a form of auto-hypnotic suggestions. 
 >
 That's what I'm saying. In a case like the Rama levitation event, Lenz 
 could have taught his inner circle TB followers how to self-hypnotize 
 themselves, or to later become auto-hypnotized, sort of like the 
 Manchurian Candidate. Barry might have been brain-washed and put into a 
 trance-induction state, and programmed to later do a 180 and become an 
 anti-cult apologist.
 
 Apparently some people are very prone to suggestibility - they go down 
 the rabbit hole and later pop up on public forums posing as ex-spiritual 
 teachers in order to fool the public into adopting their materialistic, 
 nihilistic philosophy. That's what I think.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[nablusoss1008]

It would explain why the Turq sees Dragons and other weird stuff too :-)
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Nabs, 

 That's an excellent observation!
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 Probably the Rama-fellow was high on drugs and forgot to snap his fingers 
saying "wake up" after one of his mass-hypnosis :-)

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 My gosh, are you saying that Barry has been hypnotized by Rama and doesn't 
even know that he's been programmed to post anti-TM propaganda all of these 
years?
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 On 4/10/2014 2:43 PM, jr_esq@... mailto:jr_esq@... wrote:
 > It could be that the TM siddhis are a form of auto-hypnotic suggestions. 
 >
 That's what I'm saying. In a case like the Rama levitation event, Lenz 
 could have taught his inner circle TB followers how to self-hypnotize 
 themselves, or to later become auto-hypnotized, sort of like the 
 Manchurian Candidate. Barry might have been brain-washed and put into a 
 trance-induction state, and programmed to later do a 180 and become an 
 anti-cult apologist.
 
 Apparently some people are very prone to suggestibility - they go down 
 the rabbit hole and later pop up on public forums posing as ex-spiritual 
 teachers in order to fool the public into adopting their materialistic, 
 nihilistic philosophy. That's what I think.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Scientifically Validated

[authfriend]

OK, I took another look at the MUMOSA post, and your paean is ridiculous. This 
study wasn't TM-related at all; and your guy found NOTHING WHATSOEVER to 
indicate it was "baloney." The instructor simply copied the published study 
abstract for the handout (go look for yourself, as both Salyavin and I did, but 
your guy didn't). 

 The abstract didn't say how long the average hospitalizations were; it simply 
said the length of hospitalization for each of the patients in the study had 
been recorded (that's what it says on the handout). The full study surely 
reports those figures, or it wouldn't have been published. Your guy found no 
smoking gun in the abstract, and he didn't do his homework. Pretty pallid 
effort. And good grief, if that's the only complaint he has about the TM 
research... 

 Excellent, excellent post by the master of the new MUMOSA website, 
underscoring how the much ballyhooed "science" shoring up TM is often baloney.
 

 http://mumosa.com/mum-stories/maximum-vastu-fail.html 
http://mumosa.com/mum-stories/maximum-vastu-fail.html

Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[LEnglish5]

 The purpose of TM-SIdhis practice is the development of higher states of 
consciousness. I suspect that randomly using samyama in order to shift body 
state might fall under the warning that is traditionally given for the siddhis. 
 

 L.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 You sure have a "lofty" opinion of Maharishi.  He's just an Indian guy who was 
a monk and decided to teach meditation.  There are lots of folks like that in 
India.  ;-) 
 
 Years ago my cousin, a real estate agent, recommended Napoleon Hill's "Think 
and Go Rich".  I read some it but what stood out was that it was like the  
TM-Sidhi's program and this book was published in the early 20th century.  IOW, 
there is nothing new under the sun.  The techniques of samyama have been around 
for ages.  They are at the core of much of Indian yoga and philosophy.
 
 We don't understand consciousness very well.  This goes for the scientific 
community too which is just beginning to study it.  What I meant about the 
placebo effect is why if you give one group a real medicine and another a sugar 
pill why does the second group still get results?  I've tested this myself and 
am able to manifest the effects of herbs and vitamin supplements (especially 
minerals) without actually taking them.  I can also shift my body state by 
doing samyama on the desired state. 
 
 If people here haven't watched it yet and indeed it is a long interview, 
Rick's interview with Robert Svoboda, whose ayurvedic workshops I attended, is 
VERY insightful.  I like how he talks about modern medicine and his opinion 
which I've thought for years is they often don't know why some medicine will 
work and they make it sound like it is a supernatural phenomenon.  Whereas 
natural healers who actually pay attention to biochemistry and physics do 
understand how something works.
 
 On 04/11/2014 10:59 AM, LEnglish5@... mailto:LEnglish5@... wrote:
 
   One assumes that Maharishi chose a subset of the siddhis mentioned in 
Patanjali that he thought were most beneficial, as he didn't include all of 
them in the TM-SIddhis practices -not even all of  the ones he originally 
experimented with.
 

 If you look at the categories of practices, they appear to cover a very broad 
range, so I'm curious: which vital/important categories of siddhis do you think 
he left out?
 

 I mean, in theory, just about anything could be seen as potentially a siddhi, 
when the action is performed by a fully enlightened person. What activities 
would provide better "stitches" between relative and absolute, do you think?
 

 L
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:noozguru@... wrote :
 
 Of course.  They are very interesting and powerful techniques.  They do things 
that are not taught in the TM Sidhis.
 
 On 04/10/2014 10:04 AM, salyavin808 wrote:
 
   Hey cool, Bhairitu got the real deal! Do you still do them?
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:noozguru@... wrote :
 
 On 04/10/2014 05:10 AM, salyavin808 wrote:

   
 
 
 We were all disappointed when we found out it was in English, I was hoping for 
some super-mantra things.


 
 The tantric siddhis I learned are "super-mantra things".  They're all in 
Sanskrit.  But we also translated them.  And they work pretty much the same way 
that sutras in English do.  
 


 



 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Roger Leahy, re Grain Elevator

[Michael Jackson]

very interesting observation - I would still like to know what MUM's position 
on the grain elevator is.

On Fri, 4/11/14, j_alexander_stan...@yahoo.com  
wrote:

 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Roger Leahy, re Grain Elevator
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Friday, April 11, 2014, 6:52 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
   
   
   What's funny to me is that Roger Leahy is a
 hardcore Ron Paul libertarian. I guess the whole
 unregulated, free-market, libertarian thing is fine with him
 as long as it's not in his backyard. 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Scientifically Validated

[LEnglish5]

Morning sunlight is the basis behind Bright Light Therapy for Seasonal 
Affective Disorder, I believe. 

 The mechanisms by which they work may be similar.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 These science paywall's are so unfair, you either have to take their word for 
it or fork out what could amount to a fortune to get one or two papers from a 
journal that wouldn't cost as much for the whole thing by subscription.
 

 But lets take them at their word and assume that morning sunlight is 
beneficial for bipolar patients. Why might that be?
 

 Bipolar disorder is when you have mood swings between depression and mania, 
depending on the severity of the extremes and frequency of the swings it can be 
a seriously debilitating condition. One of the problems people with mania have 
is an inability to get to sleep due to hyper-activity, perhaps having an east 
facing room would help reset a natural balance?
 

 It's known that a woman with irregular periods can reset the natural rhythm by 
sleeping with the light on every 28 days (no prizes for spotting the connection 
there) so perhaps someone with a disrupted diurnal rhythm might get a bit more 
sleep and thus a bit more time to recover from the exhaustion associated with 
bipolar mania.

 

 This might be why it doesn't have any effect on unipolar depressives who tend 
to have no trouble getting off to sleep but typically wake up early in the 
morning anyway. 
 

 Just thinking out loud because I can't afford to read every science paper I'd 
like to either, but if it is something like this then what right have the TMO 
got to claim woo woo? And it doesn't even make sense if they do because you'd 
have to have an east facing bedroom (and not all of them are) and it would 
matter if the front door faced south even as we're talking about windows.
 

 So it isn't really a victory for vastu either way but things like this are 
interesting, if morning light is good for some people so be it. I'm a morning 
person which apparently means my body clock resets itself every night. People 
who can't get about of bed in the morning (the other half of humanity) don't 
have this inbuilt skill. A test like this for them might be interesting, 
assuming this paper has anything actually interesting to say in the first place 
which we won't know until someone coughs up for copy. Hey ho.
 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Excellent, excellent post by the master of the new MUMOSA website, 
underscoring how the much ballyhooed "science" shoring up TM is often baloney.
 

 http://mumosa.com/mum-stories/maximum-vastu-fail.html 
http://mumosa.com/mum-stories/maximum-vastu-fail.html

[FairfieldLife] Re: Roger Leahy, re Grain Elevator

[j_alexander_stanley]

What's funny to me is that Roger Leahy is a hardcore Ron Paul libertarian. I 
guess the whole unregulated, free-market, libertarian thing is fine with him as 
long as it's not in his backyard. 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Will next Tuesday bring the "Big One"?

[Share Long]

noozguru, also next Tuesday is what Western astrologers call a Grand Cross. And 
in that system it's occurring at 13 degrees. Of the Cardinal signs: Uranus in 
Aries; Jupiter in Cancer; Mars in Libra and Pluto in Capricorn. Hold on to your 
seat belts!


On Friday, April 11, 2014 1:39 PM, Bhairitu  wrote:
 
  
Next Tuesday will bring a full lunar eclipse viewable in North America. 
Often eclipses bring earthquakes either on the day or in days following 
(after a plate settles from the gravitation pull). The Ring of Fire has 
been very active lately.  Of course the USGS doesn't want to panic 
people.  However, Alex Jones had Stan Deyo on his show this morning who 
pointed out the the USGS got yelled at in the past for pointing out the 
likelihood of earthquake and volcanic activity because (guess what) it 
damages real estate values in those areas.  Now of course for some 
people Jones and Deyo spell "super woo-woo" but it was an interesting 
subject and Deyo simply uses data found on the USGS web site.

Ready to rock and roll?

[FairfieldLife] Will next Tuesday bring the "Big One"?

[Bhairitu]

Next Tuesday will bring a full lunar eclipse viewable in North America.  
Often eclipses bring earthquakes either on the day or in days following 
(after a plate settles from the gravitation pull). The Ring of Fire has 
been very active lately.  Of course the USGS doesn't want to panic 
people.  However, Alex Jones had Stan Deyo on his show this morning who 
pointed out the the USGS got yelled at in the past for pointing out the 
likelihood of earthquake and volcanic activity because (guess what) it 
damages real estate values in those areas.  Now of course for some 
people Jones and Deyo spell "super woo-woo" but it was an interesting 
subject and Deyo simply uses data found on the USGS web site.

Ready to rock and roll?

Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[authfriend]

I'd be interested in your response to Lawson's questions, Bhairitu, if you have 
one. 

 

 You sure have a "lofty" opinion of Maharishi.  He's just an Indian guy who was 
a monk and decided to teach meditation.  There are lots of folks like that in 
India.  ;-)  
 Years ago my cousin, a real estate agent, recommended Napoleon Hill's "Think 
and Go Rich".  I read some it but what stood out was that it was like the  
TM-Sidhi's program and this book was published in the early 20th century.  IOW, 
there is nothing new under the sun.  The techniques of samyama have been around 
for ages.  They are at the core of much of Indian yoga and philosophy.
 
 We don't understand consciousness very well.  This goes for the scientific 
community too which is just beginning to study it.  What I meant about the 
placebo effect is why if you give one group a real medicine and another a sugar 
pill why does the second group still get results?  I've tested this myself and 
am able to manifest the effects of herbs and vitamin supplements (especially 
minerals) without actually taking them.  I can also shift my body state by 
doing samyama on the desired state. 
 
 If people here haven't watched it yet and indeed it is a long interview, 
Rick's interview with Robert Svoboda, whose ayurvedic workshops I attended, is 
VERY insightful.  I like how he talks about modern medicine and his opinion 
which I've thought for years is they often don't know why some medicine will 
work and they make it sound like it is a supernatural phenomenon.  Whereas 
natural healers who actually pay attention to biochemistry and physics do 
understand how something works.
 
 On 04/11/2014 10:59 AM, LEnglish5@... mailto:LEnglish5@... wrote:
 
   One assumes that Maharishi chose a subset of the siddhis mentioned in 
Patanjali that he thought were most beneficial, as he didn't include all of 
them in the TM-SIddhis practices -not even all of  the ones he originally 
experimented with.
 

 If you look at the categories of practices, they appear to cover a very broad 
range, so I'm curious: which vital/important categories of siddhis do you think 
he left out?
 

 I mean, in theory, just about anything could be seen as potentially a siddhi, 
when the action is performed by a fully enlightened person. What activities 
would provide better "stitches" between relative and absolute, do you think?
 

 L
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:noozguru@... wrote :
 
 Of course.  They are very interesting and powerful techniques.  They do things 
that are not taught in the TM Sidhis.
 
 On 04/10/2014 10:04 AM, salyavin808 wrote:
 
   Hey cool, Bhairitu got the real deal! Do you still do them?
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:noozguru@... wrote :
 
 On 04/10/2014 05:10 AM, salyavin808 wrote:

   
 
 
 We were all disappointed when we found out it was in English, I was hoping for 
some super-mantra things.


 
 The tantric siddhis I learned are "super-mantra things".  They're all in 
Sanskrit.  But we also translated them.  And they work pretty much the same way 
that sutras in English do.  
 


 



 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[Bhairitu]

You sure have a "lofty" opinion of Maharishi.  He's just an Indian guy 
who was a monk and decided to teach meditation.  There are lots of folks 
like that in India. ;-)


Years ago my cousin, a real estate agent, recommended Napoleon Hill's 
"Think and Go Rich".  I read some it but what stood out was that it was 
like the  TM-Sidhi's program and this book was published in the early 
20th century.  IOW, there is nothing new under the sun.  The techniques 
of samyama have been around for ages.  They are at the core of much of 
Indian yoga and philosophy.


We don't understand consciousness very well.  This goes for the 
scientific community too which is just beginning to study it. What I 
meant about the placebo effect is why if you give one group a real 
medicine and another a sugar pill why does the second group still get 
results?  I've tested this myself and am able to manifest the effects of 
herbs and vitamin supplements (especially minerals) without actually 
taking them.  I can also shift my body state by doing samyama on the 
desired state.


If people here haven't watched it yet and indeed it is a long interview, 
Rick's interview with Robert Svoboda, whose ayurvedic workshops I 
attended, is VERY insightful.  I like how he talks about modern medicine 
and his opinion which I've thought for years is they often don't know 
why some medicine will work and they make it sound like it is a 
supernatural phenomenon.  Whereas natural healers who actually pay 
attention to biochemistry and physics do understand how something works.


On 04/11/2014 10:59 AM, lengli...@cox.net wrote:


One assumes that Maharishi chose a subset of the siddhis mentioned in 
Patanjali that he thought were most beneficial, as he didn't include 
all of them in the TM-SIddhis practices -not even all of  the ones he 
originally experimented with.



If you look at the categories of practices, they appear to cover a 
very broad range, so I'm curious: which vital/important categories of 
siddhis do you think he left out?


I mean, in theory, just about anything could be seen as potentially a 
siddhi, when the action is performed by a fully enlightened person. 
What activities would provide better "stitches" between relative and 
absolute, do you think?


L


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

Of course.  They are very interesting and powerful techniques.  They 
do things that are not taught in the TM Sidhis.


On 04/10/2014 10:04 AM, salyavin808 wrote:


Hey cool, Bhairitu got the real deal! Do you still do them?

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
,  
 wrote :


On 04/10/2014 05:10 AM, salyavin808 wrote:




We were all disappointed when we found out it was in English, I
was hoping for some super-mantra things.


The tantric siddhis I learned are "super-mantra things".  They're
all in Sanskrit.  But we also translated them.  And they work
pretty much the same way that sutras in English do.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[nablusoss1008]

At least it would explain some, but alas not all, of the weird theories of the 
Turq. Dr.D used to call him baby-barry but we know he simply never woke up from 
hypnosis because his Buddhist "guru" forgot to call them back to reality. Would 
explain why the Turq sees Dragons and other weird stuff too :-)
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 Probably the Rama-fellow was high on drugs and forgot to snap his fingers 
saying "wake up" after one of his mass-hypnosis :-)
 

 That's actually funny, Nabby. Thanks for that little quip.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 My gosh, are you saying that Barry has been hypnotized by Rama and doesn't 
even know that he's been programmed to post anti-TM propaganda all of these 
years?
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 On 4/10/2014 2:43 PM, jr_esq@... mailto:jr_esq@... wrote:
 > It could be that the TM siddhis are a form of auto-hypnotic suggestions. 
 >
 That's what I'm saying. In a case like the Rama levitation event, Lenz 
 could have taught his inner circle TB followers how to self-hypnotize 
 themselves, or to later become auto-hypnotized, sort of like the 
 Manchurian Candidate. Barry might have been brain-washed and put into a 
 trance-induction state, and programmed to later do a 180 and become an 
 anti-cult apologist.
 
 Apparently some people are very prone to suggestibility - they go down 
 the rabbit hole and later pop up on public forums posing as ex-spiritual 
 teachers in order to fool the public into adopting their materialistic, 
 nihilistic philosophy. That's what I think.

[FairfieldLife] Re: How Long Is Reality?

[LEnglish5]

That's a bit of a simplification. 

 It's more like they found that visual stimulation from 15 seconds ago can 
influence what you're seeing now, and that has been known for years. In fact, 
it's at least partly explained by the "thalamic-cortical feedback loop" 
circuits in the brain, where sensory input comes into the thalamus and is 
distributed to the relevant sensory processing centers in the cortex. For 
example, visual data comes into the thalamus and is sent to the V1 area in the 
very back of the brain, and the data is processed and sent to V2, which 
processes it and sends it to V3, etc. At every step, some of that 
post-processed data gets sent back to the thalamus where it is merged with the 
incoming raw sensory data which is sent to V1, rinse and repeat (not sure if 
any data is sent from the thalamus to V2 -I think not, and that's it's one-way 
except with V1,  but don't remember for sure).
 

 It shouldn't be surprising that given the above  scenario, data from a few 
seconds before is still measurably influencing the current stream of raw data. 
And this phenomenon will likely eventually be found for every sense: extremely 
recent past experience influences how we perceive the present moment via all 
our senses.
 

 I guess the question is: how long should this effect last, and perhaps that is 
what is notable about this research. 15 seconds IS a pretty long time for that 
kind of sensory loop data to be sticking around. Perhaps the circuits are more 
complicated than the above description suggests.
 

 Of course, perhaps what scientists are measuring is the length of time that 
highly stressed (unenlightened) people show this kind of influence, and that 
more enlightened people will show a shorter period where the immediate past 
influences present...
 

 Hmmm... emailing Fred Travis and company with this speculation. It seems a 
testable way of distinguishing more enlightened from less enlightened when 
looking at differences between people in CC and not in CC.
 

 Of course, there's no guarantee that such differences exist, but its a 
testable hypothesis, etc.
 

 

 L
 

 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Researchers have found reality is 15 seconds long.  Do you agree with this? 
 
http://www.theverge.com/2014/4/9/5598130/your-reality-is-actually-fifteen-seconds-long
 
http://www.theverge.com/2014/4/9/5598130/your-reality-is-actually-fifteen-seconds-long

 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[LEnglish5]

One assumes that Maharishi chose a subset of the siddhis mentioned in Patanjali 
that he thought were most beneficial, as he didn't include all of them in the 
TM-SIddhis practices -not even all of  the ones he originally experimented 
with. 

 If you look at the categories of practices, they appear to cover a very broad 
range, so I'm curious: which vital/important categories of siddhis do you think 
he left out?
 

 I mean, in theory, just about anything could be seen as potentially a siddhi, 
when the action is performed by a fully enlightened person. What activities 
would provide better "stitches" between relative and absolute, do you think?
 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Of course.  They are very interesting and powerful techniques.  They do things 
that are not taught in the TM Sidhis.
 
 On 04/10/2014 10:04 AM, salyavin808 wrote:
 
   Hey cool, Bhairitu got the real deal! Do you still do them?
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:noozguru@... wrote :
 
 On 04/10/2014 05:10 AM, salyavin808 wrote:

   
 
 
 We were all disappointed when we found out it was in English, I was hoping for 
some super-mantra things.


 
 The tantric siddhis I learned are "super-mantra things".  They're all in 
Sanskrit.  But we also translated them.  And they work pretty much the same way 
that sutras in English do.  
 


 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[Michael Jackson]

I expect you are correct about that. As to theft within the Movement, until Sal 
said what he did, I had only heard of local teachers sometimes raiding the till 
for personal gain in local centers. Although one TM teacher in Florida took 
money from the center account to pay a fine the judged assessed against him for 
indecent exposure. He had gotten caught swimming nekkid in a canal or pond or 
something in Florida just a couple weeks before a new chairman had come to take 
charge of the center. When questioned about the missing funds, the guy fessed 
up and the new chairman made him pay it back.

On Fri, 4/11/14, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com  wrote:

 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Friday, April 11, 2014, 1:48 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
   
   
   
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 wrote :
 
 its a joke, Ann
 - besides, Marshy would have had apoplexy had anyone
 suggested taking a third of his money
 According
 to various people here that is exactly what some governors
 did. And at that point I don't think they would've
 cared if MMY had "apoplexy" or not. Considering
 how much money is stolen from regular little ol' retail
 stores by employees dipping their hand in the till, book
 keepers robbing the business blind and customers shop
 lifting I am sure hundreds of thousands of dollars have been
 "stolen" from the Movement and MMY over the years.
 Presumably the embezzlers figured the Movement could afford
 it and that is what motivates many thieves - either the
 opinion that they (the thieves) deserve the stolen loot or
 at least they feel that those they robbed are too rich to
 notice or to care.
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[jr_esq]

Nabs, 

 That's an excellent observation!
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 Probably the Rama-fellow was high on drugs and forgot to snap his fingers 
saying "wake up" after one of his mass-hypnosis :-)

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 My gosh, are you saying that Barry has been hypnotized by Rama and doesn't 
even know that he's been programmed to post anti-TM propaganda all of these 
years?
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 On 4/10/2014 2:43 PM, jr_esq@... mailto:jr_esq@... wrote:
 > It could be that the TM siddhis are a form of auto-hypnotic suggestions. 
 >
 That's what I'm saying. In a case like the Rama levitation event, Lenz 
 could have taught his inner circle TB followers how to self-hypnotize 
 themselves, or to later become auto-hypnotized, sort of like the 
 Manchurian Candidate. Barry might have been brain-washed and put into a 
 trance-induction state, and programmed to later do a 180 and become an 
 anti-cult apologist.
 
 Apparently some people are very prone to suggestibility - they go down 
 the rabbit hole and later pop up on public forums posing as ex-spiritual 
 teachers in order to fool the public into adopting their materialistic, 
 nihilistic philosophy. That's what I think.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[Share Long]

Reading the Vedic literature in the original and writing a dissertation about 
one's experiences doing so is one Ph D track. Tom told us that Sanskrit doesn't 
leave any impression in the chit. But I still remember some of the aphorisms. 
And I love saying them. Maybe more placebo...(-:

Yeah, I really liked your point about placebo. And I think when people try to 
convince each other of ideas, beliefs, etc, that's also like trying to have a 
placebo effect.

On Friday, April 11, 2014 11:51 AM, Bhairitu  wrote:
 
  
That's good because you need Sanskrit to really understand these ancient texts. 
 But I had never even heard from Vedic Science graduates if it was taught.  It 
was definitely an advantage for me when learning tantra.

On 04/11/2014 09:39 AM, Share Long wrote:

  
>noozguru, when I was taking the MA in SCI 1991-92, we had a month of Sanskrit 
>with Tom Egenes who has a Ph D in it from Univ of Virginia. He still teaches 
>there but now the program is called MS in Vedic Science. People who go on for 
>the Ph D get to the point where they can read the Vedic literature in the 
>original. 
>
>
>
>On Friday, April 11, 2014 11:15 AM, Bhairitu  wrote:
> 
>  
>I doubt that even MUM has any courses in Sanskrit.  At least I never heard 
>anyone who attended there say it was taught.  You forget that some of the 
>"governors" including myself did the TM-Sidhi's course with the Citizen's 
>courses.  They were said to be the same thing anyway.  Doing it that way I was 
>able to break it into 3 sessions and keep my music gig.
>
>As for Sanskrit what teachers got for
  the puja were sheets with
  transliterations.  These were
  carefully done to correlate with
  American English. So we didn't
  actually "learn" Sanskrit other than
  the translations of puja into English
  and the Sanskrit words for that.
>
>When I visited Ammachi's ashram in
  India they conducted courses in
  Sanskrits for the devotees.  In the
  1990s I bought Vyas Houson's full home
  course on Sanskrit which is very well
  put together.  The American Sanskrit
  Institute often holds weekend courses
  where you learn Devanagari which is
  enough to get one started.  From a
  practical standpoint it was very
  useful when traveling in India where
  you will see signs in that script and
  then the English with it.  Often the
  script is just sounding out  the
  English. :-D 
>
>
>On 04/11/2014 12:49 AM, cardemais...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>  
>>
>>Is it true that the Governors
got the siddhi-suutras in
Sanskrit?
>>I mean, the YF suutra in
Sanskrit I saw years ago (on
minet.org, or somesuch)
>>is really strange, because, as I
recall it, it seems to be based
on Vyaasa's and/or Bhoja's
commentary
>>rather than the original
suutras...
>
>
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[Michael Jackson]

what the Chinese believe about the effects of tai chi and chi gung have no 
relation to the made up fairy tale bullshit called the Marshy Effect - no one 
ever claimed group practice of chi gung will create world peace. 

On Fri, 4/11/14, nablusoss1008  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Friday, April 11, 2014, 12:47 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
   
   
   "It kind of looks like MJ got mixed up - he
 quit TM and started doing 
  Qigong, which has at it's basis the distribution of Qi
 energy - just 
  like the ME. Just sayin'."
 HaHa :-)
 
  
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[Michael Jackson]

According to the guy who has the new MUMOSA site, they are teaching sanskrit now

On Fri, 4/11/14, Bhairitu  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Friday, April 11, 2014, 4:15 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
   
   
   
   
   
 I doubt that
 even MUM has any courses
   in Sanskrit.  At least I never heard anyone who
 attended there say
   it was taught.  You forget that some of the
 "governors" including
   myself did the TM-Sidhi's course with the
 Citizen's courses.  They
   were said to be the same thing anyway.  Doing it that
 way I was
   able to break it into 3 sessions and keep my music
 gig.
 
   
 
   As for Sanskrit what teachers got for the puja were
 sheets with
   transliterations.  These were carefully done to
 correlate with
   American English. So we didn't actually
 "learn" Sanskrit other
   than the translations of puja into English and the
 Sanskrit words
   for that.
 
   
 
   When I visited Ammachi's ashram in India they
 conducted courses in
   Sanskrits for the devotees.  In the 1990s I bought
 Vyas Houson's
   full home course on Sanskrit which is very well put
 together.  The
   American Sanskrit Institute often holds weekend
 courses where you
   learn Devanagari which is enough to get one started. 
 From a
   practical standpoint it was very useful when traveling
 in India
   where you will see signs in that script and then the
 English with
   it.  Often the script is just sounding out  the
 English. 
 :-D 
 
   
 
   
 
   On 04/11/2014 12:49 AM, cardemais...@yahoo.com
 wrote:
 
 
   
   
   
 
 
   Is it true that the Governors got the
 siddhi-suutras in
   Sanskrit?
 
   I mean, the YF suutra in Sanskrit I saw years
 ago (on
   minet.org, or somesuch)
 
   is really strange, because, as I recall it, it
 seems to be
   based on Vyaasa's and/or Bhoja's
 commentary
 
   rather than the original suutras...
   
   
   
   
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[Michael Jackson]

I rarely read your posts Richy since you are s whacked out but this one is 
so full of shit I had to reply

I have only been practicing chi gung for 2 years and there is no chanting nor 
mantras in chi gung unless its some made up New Age bullshit version of chi 
gung. Such New Age bs certainly does exist, but I don't practice nor pay 
attention to such stuff. The chi gung I do is mainly very old traditional 
routines that do not include such fluff. movements, coordinated breathing with 
the movements (in most routines, not all) and yes there is the visualization or 
intention in some of the routines. But again not all. Chi gung has a zillion 
variations and some of the more recent in my estimation are bs or real chi gung 
with added bs that someone can say is their proprietary spin so they can sell 
it more easily. Jeff Primack is a good example - his seminars are hugely 
successful, I estimate he makes a minimum of 60 to 70 thousand bucks (gross) on 
each one, plus book and DVD sales. He trained with some good people but has 
turned what he does into a personality cult
 of sorts although mild compared to Marshy and such like Hindoo Gurus.



On Fri, 4/11/14, Richard J. Williams  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Friday, April 11, 2014, 12:18 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
   
   
   On 4/11/2014 5:04 AM, Michael Jackson wrote:
 
 > The assertion that world peace can be achieved by
 people doing a 
 
 > practice that has never produced promised results on
 any level 
 
 > (meaning no peace, no true levitation, invisibility,
 etc), the 
 
 > assertion that yagyas make any discernible difference,
 that living in 
 
 > a vastu home guarantees alleviation of life problems
 when the actual 
 
 > opposite has been seen right there in Fairfield IS a
 "ridiculous 
 
 > extreme" point of view. Just sayin'.
 
 It kind of looks like MJ got mixed up - he quit TM and
 started doing 
 
 Qigong, which has at it's basis the distribution of Qi
 energy - just 
 
 like the ME. Just sayin'.
 
 
 
 You have to wonder how a guy could get so indoctrinated in
 just a few 
 
 years working in a kitchen. In various Buddhist Qigong
 traditions, the 
 
 aim is to still the mind, either through outward focus, for
 example on a 
 
 place, or through inward focus on the breath, a mantra, a
 koan, 
 
 emptiness, or the idea of the eternal. In the Confucius
 scholar 
 
 tradition, meditation is focused on humanity and virtue,
 with the aim of 
 
 self-enlightenment. Go figure.
 
 
 
 "Qigong is a meditative practice that utilizes breath
 awareness, 
 
 visualization, mantra, chanting, sound, and focus on
 philosophical 
 
 concepts such as qi circulation, aesthetics, or moral
 values. In 
 
 traditional Chinese medicine and Daoist practice, the
 meditative focus 
 
 is commonly on cultivating qi in dantian energy centers and
 balancing qi 
 
 flow in meridian and other pathways."
 
 
 
 Work cited:
 
 
 
 'Roots of Chinese Chi Kung: Secrets of Chi Kung
 Training'
 
 by Jwing-Ming Yang
 
 The Martial Arts Association
 
 
 
 ---
 
 This email is free from viruses and malware because avast!
 Antivirus protection is active.
 
 http://www.avast.com
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] TM and TM-Sidhis are not but Placebo Effect

[Michael Jackson]

Keep up the good work Dougy - and what do you get for it besides a good 
emotional feeling? Riots by the peace creaters - go figger - hell, if I put a 
little Southern spin on that one, it would make a hell of a good story! Thanks 
Bucky!

On Fri, 4/11/14, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] TM and TM-Sidhis are not but Placebo Effect
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Friday, April 11, 2014, 12:10 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
   
   
   7Ray, good observation.  You are completely
 correct, these are fallacious,
 ignorant, anti-science and vile accusations being made
 against TM and the meditating community here.  These
 critics simply do not know what they are talking about.
  Instead folks should meditate
 here together with the group and experience it for
 themselves and not
 rely on some quitters infected with their own brand of
 personal hate to spin what is going on
 here.  Large deep meditation happens here
 twice a day.  It is a
 fabulous place for larger spiritual practice.  Mid-day the
 Pundits up on
 their campus are chanting in their groups.  Sit up there and
 meditate too.  It is all an awesome field effect for
 spiritual people.  Experience totally refutes the
 absolute bitter negativity of the criticism in these
 guys,
 -Buck
 
 7Ray
 writes:
 tell
 me,because I really don't know, but is it a fallacy
 when
 one cites examples from a
 ridiculous extreme to try to make
 their points?  I mean, sure, we all like to
 hear
 outrageous stories, but when
 that's the main content of
 what one's posts, it does get a little
 predictable.
  Just sayin', as
 they say
 
 mjackson74
 writes:The assertion that world peace can be achieved by
 people doing a practice that has never produced promised results on
 any level (meaning no peace, no true levitation,
 invisibility, etc), the assertion that yagyas make any
 discernible difference, that living in a vastu home
 guarantees alleviation of life problems when the actual
 opposite has been seen right there in Fairfield IS a
 "ridiculous extreme" point of view. Just
 sayin'.
 
 From: Michael
 Jackson  To:
 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday,
 April 11, 2014 12:09 PM
  Subject: Re:
 [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo
 Effect?
  
 
  Now
 that is a TM story I have never heard! Details please!!!
 
  On Fri, 4/11/14,
 salyavin808  wrote:
 
 
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but
 Placebo Effect?
 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 
 Date: Friday, April 11, 2014, 5:57 AM
 
 
 
 People did, apparently
 
 two gov's were entrusted with the takings in Kenya
 
 during a big push there in the 70's and they
 absconded,
 
 obviously having weighed up the pro's and cons of a
 TM
 
 teachers wage and life in Barbados!
 
 
 turquoiseb
 writes:
 Here's a funny thought -- what if the real reason
 Maharishi funneled so much money back to his relatives in
 India is that 'way back in the beginning, when he first
 decided to become a spiritual teacher, they made him sign
 the same contract they now impose on the pandits? For every
 $200 he made, he had to send them $150. For every $200
 million he made, he had to send them $150 million. That
 would explain a great deal about TM-related pricing over the
 years...  :-)
 
 
 ..
  
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[Bhairitu]

That's good because you need Sanskrit to really understand these ancient 
texts.  But I had never even heard from Vedic Science graduates if it 
was taught.  It was definitely an advantage for me when learning tantra.


On 04/11/2014 09:39 AM, Share Long wrote:
noozguru, when I was taking the MA in SCI 1991-92, we had a month of 
Sanskrit with Tom Egenes who has a Ph D in it from Univ of Virginia. 
He still teaches there but now the program is called MS in Vedic 
Science. People who go on for the Ph D get to the point where they can 
read the Vedic literature in the original.


On Friday, April 11, 2014 11:15 AM, Bhairitu  
wrote:
I doubt that even MUM has any courses in Sanskrit.  At least I never 
heard anyone who attended there say it was taught.  You forget that 
some of the "governors" including myself did the TM-Sidhi's course 
with the Citizen's courses.  They were said to be the same thing 
anyway.  Doing it that way I was able to break it into 3 sessions and 
keep my music gig.


As for Sanskrit what teachers got for the puja were sheets with 
transliterations.  These were carefully done to correlate with 
American English. So we didn't actually "learn" Sanskrit other than 
the translations of puja into English and the Sanskrit words for that.


When I visited Ammachi's ashram in India they conducted courses in 
Sanskrits for the devotees.  In the 1990s I bought Vyas Houson's full 
home course on Sanskrit which is very well put together.  The American 
Sanskrit Institute often holds weekend courses where you learn 
Devanagari which is enough to get one started.  From a practical 
standpoint it was very useful when traveling in India where you will 
see signs in that script and then the English with it.  Often the 
script is just sounding out  the English. :-D



On 04/11/2014 12:49 AM, cardemais...@yahoo.com 
 wrote:


Is it true that the Governors got the siddhi-suutras in Sanskrit?
I mean, the YF suutra in Sanskrit I saw years ago (on minet.org, or 
somesuch)
is really strange, because, as I recall it, it seems to be based on 
Vyaasa's and/or Bhoja's commentary

rather than the original suutras...

Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[Michael Jackson]

I have heard stories of TM teachers stealing money from local centers for 
years, but I only knew 2 personally. Both from SC at one time - one is an 
unprincipled bitch that stole money and furniture from the old TM center in 
Columbia, SC - I found out years later the big beautiful solid oak desk with a 
glass top is sitting in North Carolina even as we speak - she sold it to one of 
my best friends!

The other was also a woman who in concert with a male teacher signed a bunch of 
people up to take an SCI course and right before the course was to be taught, 
she left town with all the money - he had to teach the class and didn't get a 
dime for it. So much for TM improving behavior. 

On Fri, 4/11/14, salyavin808  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Friday, April 11, 2014, 11:26 AM

   
 Those are all the
 details I have, I'm afraid. But they were recounted to
 me by someone who was there. They taught hundreds of people
 every day in those big drives. One came in, a quick puja and
 mantra later then the next one, sun up, until sun
 down! 
 Makes me
 wonder if they count towards the 5,000,000 who are supposed
 to have learnt TM, because my friend said it obviously
 wasn't an ideal teaching situation and the chances of
 getting a follow up to see if they were doing it right (or
 at all) were pretty darn slim. But orders is orders and then
 someone ran off with the money anyway! 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 wrote :
 
 Now that is a TM
 story I have never heard! Details please!!!
 
 
  On Fri, 4/11/14, salyavin808 
 wrote:
 
 
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but
 Placebo Effect?
 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 
 Date: Friday, April 11, 2014, 5:57 AM
 
 
 
 People did, apparently
 
 two gov's were entrusted with the takings in Kenya
 
 during a big push there in the 70's and they absconded,
 
 obviously having weighed up the pro's and cons of a TM
 
 teachers wage and life in Barbados!
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 
 
 wrote :
 
 
 
 I would-a
 
 smuggled money for Marshy if he'd-a asked me, as long
 as
 
 I got to stick a third of it in my pocket.
 
 
 
 
 
 On Thu, 4/10/14, salyavin808 
 
 wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but
 
 Placebo Effect?
 
 
 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 
 
 
 Date: Thursday, April 10, 2014, 3:25 PM
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[Share Long]

noozguru, when I was taking the MA in SCI 1991-92, we had a month of Sanskrit 
with Tom Egenes who has a Ph D in it from Univ of Virginia. He still teaches 
there but now the program is called MS in Vedic Science. People who go on for 
the Ph D get to the point where they can read the Vedic literature in the 
original. 


On Friday, April 11, 2014 11:15 AM, Bhairitu  wrote:
 
  
I doubt that even MUM has any courses in Sanskrit.  At least I never heard 
anyone who attended there say it was taught.  You forget that some of the 
"governors" including myself did the TM-Sidhi's course with the Citizen's 
courses.  They were said to be the same thing anyway.  Doing it that way I was 
able to break it into 3 sessions and keep my music gig.

As for Sanskrit what teachers got for the puja were sheets with
  transliterations.  These were carefully done to correlate with
  American English. So we didn't actually "learn" Sanskrit other
  than the translations of puja into English and the Sanskrit words
  for that.

When I visited Ammachi's ashram in India they conducted courses in
  Sanskrits for the devotees.  In the 1990s I bought Vyas Houson's
  full home course on Sanskrit which is very well put together.  The
  American Sanskrit Institute often holds weekend courses where you
  learn Devanagari which is enough to get one started.  From a
  practical standpoint it was very useful when traveling in India
  where you will see signs in that script and then the English with
  it.  Often the script is just sounding out  the English. :-D 


On 04/11/2014 12:49 AM, cardemais...@yahoo.com wrote:

  
>
>Is it true that the Governors got the siddhi-suutras in
  Sanskrit?
>I mean, the YF suutra in Sanskrit I saw years ago (on
  minet.org, or somesuch)
>is really strange, because, as I recall it, it seems to be
  based on Vyaasa's and/or Bhoja's commentary
>rather than the original suutras...

[FairfieldLife] "The Skeptic Ouroboros"

[authfriend]

Being a skeptic is hard. It’s not easy to try to weigh evidence for everything, 
be methodical, critical, aware of bias, and come to a conclusion that you’re 
willing to drop if better evidence comes along. Worse, many times the things 
you are being skeptical of are cherished beliefs and values held by others, and 
that’s a fun little path to walk down. It can provoke some pretty, um, strong 
reactions in people.
 

 But the absolute hardest thing of all is to be skeptical of your own 
skepticism. Did I miss something? Did I think of other explanations? Am I 
biased in some way, jumping to a conclusion because I think I know the answer?
 

 How might I be wrong?
 

 I rather blew it a few times this past week by not asking those questions. 
I’ve been a skeptic a long time, but this is pretty good evidence that you 
never perfect the technique. Being skeptical is a journey, not a destination. 
You just have to keep trying.
 

 --Phil Plait, from "The Perils of the Skeptic Journalist"
 

 
http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2014/04/11/better_living_through_errors_what_i_learned_from_being_wrong_this_week.html
 
http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2014/04/11/better_living_through_errors_what_i_learned_from_being_wrong_this_week.html

 

Re: [FairfieldLife] An article on the Co$ for those who are interested in cult topics

[Bhairitu]

Actually I'm interested in "occult" topics. :-D

Which brings us around to our favorite topic of "TV shows."  Hulu has a 
new "Original Series" (and this time it is really their own series) 
called "Deadbeat."  It's a fun comedy with Tyler Labine ("Reapers") who 
is a broke guy living in New York who tries to make money as a 
clairvoyant who sees "dead people".  Thing is he really DOES see "dead 
people." Like Netflix they have all episodes available to Hulu+ subscribers.


As for Scientology I was often fascinated with that cult and tried 
reading Hubbard's Dianetics rant.  I also had a girlfriend who was 
deeply involved in it but  was "excommunicated."  So I got a real good 
account of the organization including a stack of their instruction 
manuals that she gave me.


On 04/11/2014 12:56 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote:
I know that at least a couple of lurkers are interested, because 
they've told me offline that they follow $cientology forums looking 
for story leads. For the TMers here, the story is worth a read to see 
the similarities -- the ways that one cult (the Co$) uses essentially 
the same tactics that another cult (the TMO) uses.


Escape From Scientology 





image 


Escape From Scientology 

How one young woman risked everything to break out of the prison that 
is the Church of Scientology


View on www.vocativ.com 



Preview by Yahoo

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[Bhairitu]

I doubt that even MUM has any courses in Sanskrit.  At least I never 
heard anyone who attended there say it was taught.  You forget that some 
of the "governors" including myself did the TM-Sidhi's course with the 
Citizen's courses.  They were said to be the same thing anyway.  Doing 
it that way I was able to break it into 3 sessions and keep my music gig.


As for Sanskrit what teachers got for the puja were sheets with 
transliterations.  These were carefully done to correlate with American 
English. So we didn't actually "learn" Sanskrit other than the 
translations of puja into English and the Sanskrit words for that.


When I visited Ammachi's ashram in India they conducted courses in 
Sanskrits for the devotees.  In the 1990s I bought Vyas Houson's full 
home course on Sanskrit which is very well put together.  The American 
Sanskrit Institute often holds weekend courses where you learn 
Devanagari which is enough to get one started.  From a practical 
standpoint it was very useful when traveling in India where you will see 
signs in that script and then the English with it.  Often the script is 
just sounding out  the English. :-D



On 04/11/2014 12:49 AM, cardemais...@yahoo.com wrote:



Is it true that the Governors got the siddhi-suutras in Sanskrit?
I mean, the YF suutra in Sanskrit I saw years ago (on minet.org, or 
somesuch)
is really strange, because, as I recall it, it seems to be based on 
Vyaasa's and/or Bhoja's commentary

rather than the original suutras...

Re: [FairfieldLife] Roger Leahy, re Grain Elevator

[Mike Dixon]

I'll make it easy for everyone. I'd vote *for* the grain elevator. 
On Friday, April 11, 2014 12:50 AM, Michael Jackson  
wrote:
  
  
Having lived in a rural area in SC that has seen a lot of development (tho 
nothing like this!) I can attest that this is not gonna be a good thing, except 
for the grain elevator company.

I do have several comments about it:

1 - As I said before, with the economic incentives being touted for the farmers 
and community at large, it is going to be difficult to combat this thing. 
Saying something is gonna bring in major money these days is like Marshy 
dangling the sidhis in front of everyone's noses and enticing us with a 10,000 
times more powerful program - and with about as much actual effect I am betting 
- again, I bet the main economic benefit will be to the folks who own this 
thing.

2 - It would be useful to see what MUM's official position on this thing is. I 
don't know what kind of community relations the school has with the town and 
county, but one would think that since MUM brings so many people who contribute 
to the economy of Fairfield and Jefferson County, the official position of the 
university would carry some weight with the city fathers. Has anyone asked them 
what their position is and if they are willing to support those who want to 
keep the grain elevator out?

3 - This is a good test of the Maharishi Effect. If this thing goes in, what 
will that say about the effect of yogic flying AND yagyas right there in 
Fairfield?

4 - If it does go in, since it is so tall, maybe just pay the company to paint 
in very large letters Marshy Tower of Invincibility and you'll all get blessed. 
(Sorry, couldn't resist!) I do in fact hope you can keep this thing out.

On Thu, 4/10/14, Rick Archer  wrote:

Subject: [FairfieldLife] Roger Leahy, re Grain Elevator
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, April 10, 2014, 3:35 PM
















 









Hi All,Sorry to take so long to update you
all on what I learned on Monday immediately after the 4/7
Supervisor’s meeting when I was talking with Todd
Phillips, Exec VP of Heartland Coop.  I found out that Heartland does NOT
have a comparable grain elevator for us to visit in
Iowa. [Most of their
63 elevators are decades old, and much smaller operations.
They have never built an elevator of this magnitude. I asked
him if he had any pictures or drawings that we could see,
and he said that they were proprietary. I asked what he
could tell me, then he happened to mention: “Phase 1 will
be constructed of concrete. It will be 220’ high, and have
eight sections each 78’ long.” [which totals 624’ in
length]. 220’ high is roughly equivalent to a 22 story
building, and 624’ is roughly 2 blocks long! This will
be a massive structure. There are none other
like it in the state. It will be by far the tallest
building in most of SE Iowa. Outside of tall
office buildings in Des Moines (12), Cedar Rapids (2), and
Davenport (2), this will be Iowa’sTallest Iowa building in
the other 96 counties!  
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_in_Iowa It will 
certainly be the tallest
elevator building in Iowa. Once our Court House was the
tallest building in Jefferson County. It will be dwarfed by
this elevator. It will come to dominate not only the
Fairfield skyline, but will most likely be visible as you
are entering the county from all directions! Once we
were known for our university or our meditation community or
our entrepreneurial businesses or our artistic and creative
community. Now we could become “the little Iowa town
next to the giant elevator!”  And although Heartland says they will
not initially be grinding grain here, I asked about drying
grain, and Todd confirmed that drying will be
happening. You already can hear grain dryers a mile or
more away from those on individual farms. I would expect
this elevator’s drying noise to be very
uncomfortable not only at Overland and at Walton Lake
and at Seven Hills, but probably over the whole western half
of Fairfield. I’d guess you’ll be able to hear it on the
Fairfield square if the wind is in the right direction. And
Todd confirmed that the facility will be running night
and day as needed during peak seasons. And that is, of
course, over and above the noise due to thousands of extra
grain semi’s and the extra train traffic.  Yes, we have to look at the potential
danger to air quality and to water quality, to the costly
wear and tear on our roads, to the financial costs to the
county, and so forth. But the eyesore of this giant
industrial structure, and the noise generated from their
grain drying, could be the biggest detriments to our high
quality of life in Fairfield.Please do what you can to get the
word out about the size and noise of this facility. They
have not been very forthcoming about the scope of this
project. Just calling it a grain elevator sounds a little
quaint. But this is something far more serio

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: This should fuck with them Chrisschuns

[Mike Dixon]

So, does the *document* refer to *His wife* as a priestess? Not sure how that 
phrase would challenge the tradition within the Catholic church or any other 
church (Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox or Coptic) since they clearly followed the 
Jewish tradition of male religious leaders , who BTW, were married with the 
very small exception of those that had taken the vow of a Nazarite.
On Thursday, April 10, 2014 8:07 PM, "steve.sun...@yahoo.com" 
 wrote:
  
  
Michael, pray tell.  How may we connect this to something undesirable about the 
TMO?



---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :


It looks as if Jeesuz had a wife. Maybe it took so long for people to realize 
it because he did the King Tony thang and hid it from everyone.  :-)

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/04/10/new-tests-show-evidence-forgery-gospel-jesus-wife/IusII8b4eI86HgDTKipLhN/story.html



  
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] An article on the Co$ for those who are interested in cult topics

[authfriend]

One hopes you didn't tell these "lurking reporters" that this article reveals 
significant similarities between CoS and the TMO, because that wouldn't be 
true. The folks here who know what the TMO is really like would just laugh, but 
outsiders might not know enough to recognize such an attempted deception.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 From: TurquoiseBee 
 To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com"  
 Sent: Friday, April 11, 2014 9:56 AM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] An article on the Co$ for those who are interested in 
cult topics
 
 
   I know that at least a couple of lurkers are interested, because they've 
told me offline that they follow $cientology forums looking for story leads. 
For the TMers here, the story is worth a read to see the similarities -- the 
ways that one cult (the Co$) uses essentially the same tactics that another 
cult (the TMO) uses.  

 

 Escape From Scientology 
http://www.vocativ.com/culture/religion/escape-scientology/

 
 
 http://www.vocativ.com/culture/religion/escape-scientology/
 
 Escape From Scientology 
http://www.vocativ.com/culture/religion/escape-scientology/ How one young woman 
risked everything to break out of the prison that is the Church of Scientology


 
 View on www.vocativ.com 
http://www.vocativ.com/culture/religion/escape-scientology/
 Preview by Yahoo
 









Just to anticipate the backlash, certainly not *everything* about the Co$ 
reminds me of my time in the TMO. Here are a few quotes from the article that 
did. YMMV.

"Her parents were Scientologists, as were her friends—basically everyone she 
knew. If she left, they’d disown her." [I've seen the "shunning" process many 
times when a former TMer -- especially if they're a famous one -- leaves the 
fold.]

"Founded in 1954, it [the Co$] is a highly insular faith rooted in ideas of 
American self-help and psychotherapy as well as Eastern mysticism. It 
maintains, as many religions do, that society needs healing, and also purports 
to be the only group with a cure." [The funny thing is, I'd have little problem 
with it if either of these groups said 'We have A cure'. It's the claiming that 
they have THE cure, the one and only that is odd. That's insular to the max.]

"Sea Org members live deeply controlled lives, working seven days a week 
year-round, with few, if any, days off. They earn between $8 and $50 a week, 
sleep in dormitory housing and have virtually no contact with the outside 
world." [This is pretty much what many people working for "course credit" told 
me life was like in Europe, except that they didn't get $8 a week.]

"Scientology’s essential pitch: that society is sick, full of dangers, and only 
the church can offer relief." [There's that "only" again.]

"'They pressure you a lot to join,' she says. 'They’ll tell you how bad 
everything is in the world, and that they really need your help.'" [Anyone 
remember the many "You must go to this course or the world will end" speeches 
from MMY trying to get people to come to the butt-bouncing courses?]

"Sea Org members are cut off entirely from current events, in part to prevent 
them from reading negative information about Scientology. Schlesinger had no 
idea Remini had departed, and now she was floored. She’d met the Reminis before 
and thought they were kind people. As she flipped through the pages, what she 
saw was a revelation: They’d broken away without fear, and remained intact. 
Schlesinger thought, Perhaps I can leave, too." [Haven't we heard stories here 
that MUM actively discourages student reading of Fairfield Life? Where such 
stories are told?]

"For those in the Sea Org, there is the inculcated belief that, should they go, 
they’ll live for the rest of eternity as an unhappy spec in the universe." [How 
many times have you heard some long-term TMer lament about someone who's left, 
concerned about the "bad karma" they accrued by leaving?]



 
  

Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[authfriend]

Please note, lurking reporters, here's another one for you:
 

 No, Barry, sorry, you're lying. You can't cite even a mistake I made about the 
history of the TM-Sidhi courses. I had to correct you.
 

 I don't lie; I don't have to. That's your game. What I do is find and expose 
your lies, as I've just done here.
 

 

 Steve, I suspect you might want to rethink this. Yesterday I posted a 
*theory*, presenting it very much *as* a theory. I only replied to my original 
post a few times about the theory itself -- once to Michael, twice to Share, 
once to Salyavin, and once (humorously) to Bhairitu. I made a couple of posts 
under the topic correcting Judy on inaccuracies (a polite word for "lies") she 
was trying to spread about the history of the TM-Sidhi courses
 

 , but not arguing the Placebo Effect thang per se. At no point did I attempt 
to "sell" the theory, to you or anyone else. 

In contrast, *most* of the other 58 posts (so far) in the thread were from 
people dumping on Barry. One might suspect that something about it "pushed 
their buttons." Another bunch of the same people -- Judy, Richard, Ann, Nablus 
-- also produced dozens of posts under another thread dumping on Barry. 
Presumably they got *their* buttons kinda pushed, too.
 

 No, that's your perennial nitwit excuse for the negative response people have 
to your incredible obnoxiousness. That's why you keep getting pummeled. Have 
you noticed that this doesn't happen to Michael or Salyavin even when we 
disagree with them? The fact is, your buttons are pushed when we point out that 
you're a liar and a creep. You think you should be able to say any damn nasty, 
sadistic, dishonest thing you please without any consequences. But it doesn't 
work that way, sorry.
 

 Oh, and another lie: It wasn't "dozens of posts." Maybe a half dozen.
 
As for the theory itself, I can think of two more pieces of "supporting 
evidence" for it. Do you remember how the "flying" (actually, hopping) took 
place in "waves?" Nothing would happen and nothing would happen, and then one 
person would start to bounce, and almost immediately a whole bunch of other 
people would start bouncing around as well. Might I suggest that suggestion 
might have had something to do with this?
 

 Other times, of course--at least with the women--a gaggle of people would 
start bouncing at the very same instant. FWIW, the "waves" experience was 
pretty interesting, and the specifics didn't at all match up with the "placebo 
effect" theory.

The other thing is the barking and growling and shouting and moaning. I don't 
know if you were around back then, but it was pretty much a feature of early 
TM-Sidhi practice. People would start barking like dogs and shouting and 
flailing their arms about and moaning and all sorts of other stuff. Again, it 
tended to happen in "waves" -- one person starting it and then others picking 
up on the suggestion and doing it, too. That certainly speaks to the 
possibility of suggestion. However, something *else* speaks even more strongly 
of suggestion. At some point Maharishi heard about all of this ruckus, which 
made the domes sound like an out-of-control evangelical tent meeting, and he 
declared that it was inappropriate. Almost overnight, it stopped. The *same* 
people who had been claiming that all this noise emanating from them was "not 
in their control" suddenly found that it was. Go figure. The way I figure it, 
it's all explained handily by Placebo Effect -- suggestion, then effect.

But again, all of this is just theory on my part, and furthermore a theory I am 
*not* trying to sell you.
 

 Sez Barry, having just done his best to sell it.
 

  If you somehow feel threatened by me presenting it -- as Judy, Richard, Ann, 
and Nablus obviously do --
 

 Nope, wrong, not me, and I seriously doubt Ann, who hasn't even practiced the 
TM-Sidhis for many years and didn't think much of them when she did. And you 
can't possibly "threaten" me by suggesting a "theory" that doesn't jibe with my 
own experience. You give yourself WAAY too much credit.
 

 I would look inside for the cause of that rather than to me.
 

 No, Barry, it's you. We don't like you, and for excellent reasons that have 
not a thing to do with your being a TM critic per se.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[awoelflebater]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 its a joke, Ann - besides, Marshy would have had apoplexy had anyone suggested 
taking a third of his money
 

 According to various people here that is exactly what some governors did. And 
at that point I don't think they would've cared if MMY had "apoplexy" or not. 
Considering how much money is stolen from regular little ol' retail stores by 
employees dipping their hand in the till, book keepers robbing the business 
blind and customers shop lifting I am sure hundreds of thousands of dollars 
have been "stolen" from the Movement and MMY over the years. Presumably the 
embezzlers figured the Movement could afford it and that is what motivates many 
thieves - either the opinion that they (the thieves) deserve the stolen loot or 
at least they feel that those they robbed are too rich to notice or to care.

[FairfieldLife] Re: An article on the Co$ for those who are interested in cult topics

[awoelflebater]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 I know that at least a couple of lurkers are interested, because they've told 
me offline that they follow $cientology forums looking for story leads. For the 
TMers here, the story is worth a read to see the similarities -- the ways that 
one cult (the Co$) uses essentially the same tactics that another cult (the 
TMO) uses.  

 

 Escape From Scientology 
http://www.vocativ.com/culture/religion/escape-scientology/

 
 
 http://www.vocativ.com/culture/religion/escape-scientology/
 
 Escape From Scientology 
http://www.vocativ.com/culture/religion/escape-scientology/ How one young woman 
risked everything to break out of the prison that is the Church of Scientology


 
 View on www.vocativ.com 
http://www.vocativ.com/culture/religion/escape-scientology/"; 
class="ygrps-yiv-461078161link-enhancr-card-url 
ygrps-yiv-461078161link-enhancr-element
 Preview by Yahoo
 

 

 

 There is virtually no similarities between the "cult" of TM and other, smaller 
or more insidious types of cults or groups. To think so is to have either not 
experienced such things or to be purposefully ignorant on the subject and 
presenting it in a way to try and get TM'ers here on this forum to react. 
Anyone with even a small knowledge of how real cults work while realize Bawwy 
is reaching here to find similarities and coming up abysmally short and by so 
doing making himself out to be even less credible than usual. Bawwy apparently 
believes his audience to be in third grade.
 

 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[awoelflebater]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 Probably the Rama-fellow was high on drugs and forgot to snap his fingers 
saying "wake up" after one of his mass-hypnosis :-)
 

 That's actually funny, Nabby. Thanks for that little quip.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 My gosh, are you saying that Barry has been hypnotized by Rama and doesn't 
even know that he's been programmed to post anti-TM propaganda all of these 
years?
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 On 4/10/2014 2:43 PM, jr_esq@... mailto:jr_esq@... wrote:
 > It could be that the TM siddhis are a form of auto-hypnotic suggestions. 
 >
 That's what I'm saying. In a case like the Rama levitation event, Lenz 
 could have taught his inner circle TB followers how to self-hypnotize 
 themselves, or to later become auto-hypnotized, sort of like the 
 Manchurian Candidate. Barry might have been brain-washed and put into a 
 trance-induction state, and programmed to later do a 180 and become an 
 anti-cult apologist.
 
 Apparently some people are very prone to suggestibility - they go down 
 the rabbit hole and later pop up on public forums posing as ex-spiritual 
 teachers in order to fool the public into adopting their materialistic, 
 nihilistic philosophy. That's what I think.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[awoelflebater]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
 
 Share, I do like Barry, but I think he has gone ecstatic with this new theory 
he's put forth.  I think he thinks he's found the Rosetta Stone or something.

Steve, I suspect you might want to rethink this. Yesterday I posted a *theory*, 
presenting it very much *as* a theory. I only replied to my original post a few 
times about the theory itself -- once to Michael, twice to Share, once to 
Salyavin, and once (humorously) to Bhairitu. I made a couple of posts under the 
topic correcting Judy on inaccuracies (a polite word for "lies") she was trying 
to spread about the history of the TM-Sidhi courses, but not arguing the 
Placebo Effect thang per se. At no point did I attempt to "sell" the theory, to 
you or anyone else. 

In contrast, *most* of the other 58 posts (so far) in the thread were from 
people dumping on Barry. One might suspect that something about it "pushed 
their buttons." Another bunch of the same people -- Judy, Richard, Ann, Nablus 
-- also produced dozens of posts under another thread dumping on Barry. 
Presumably they got *their* buttons kinda pushed, too.
 

 Bawwy, I will tell you once more because you are apparently too dumb and too 
obtuse to get it: I neither support or denounce TM or the TM Movement, I do not 
believe in the ME, I have no regrets nor do I have any significant abiding 
loyalties for TM nor do I resent any time or money spent at MIU or on any 
courses. You can hang onto your mistaken notions about me and life and live on 
that rickety soap box of yours until Kingdom come for all I care. What I object 
to is you. Plain and simple. You are an arrogant, silly man who has nothing to 
say, so far, that I find either interesting or enlightening or even factual. 
Get it now?

As for the theory itself, I can think of two more pieces of "supporting 
evidence" for it. Do you remember how the "flying" (actually, hopping) took 
place in "waves?" Nothing would happen and nothing would happen, and then one 
person would start to bounce, and almost immediately a whole bunch of other 
people would start bouncing around as well. Might I suggest that suggestion 
might have had something to do with this?

The other thing is the barking and growling and shouting and moaning. I don't 
know if you were around back then, but it was pretty much a feature of early 
TM-Sidhi practice. People would start barking like dogs and shouting and 
flailing their arms about and moaning and all sorts of other stuff. Again, it 
tended to happen in "waves" -- one person starting it and then others picking 
up on the suggestion and doing it, too. That certainly speaks to the 
possibility of suggestion. However, something *else* speaks even more strongly 
of suggestion. At some point Maharishi heard about all of this ruckus, which 
made the domes sound like an out-of-control evangelical tent meeting, and he 
declared that it was inappropriate. Almost overnight, it stopped. The *same* 
people who had been claiming that all this noise emanating from them was "not 
in their control" suddenly found that it was. Go figure. The way I figure it, 
it's all explained handily by Placebo Effect -- suggestion, then effect.

But again, all of this is just theory on my part, and furthermore a theory I am 
*not* trying to sell you. If you somehow feel threatened by me presenting it -- 
as Judy, Richard, Ann, and Nablus obviously do -- I would look inside for the 
cause of that rather than to me.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[nablusoss1008]

"It kind of looks like MJ got mixed up - he quit TM and started doing 
 Qigong, which has at it's basis the distribution of Qi energy - just 
 like the ME. Just sayin'."
 

 HaHa :-)

 

Re: [FairfieldLife] An article on the Co$ for those who are interested in cult topics

[Richard J. Williams]

On 4/11/2014 7:12 AM, Share Long wrote:
> But yes to friends, which is a good thing if a person has been in the 
> TMO for decades! 
 >
Maybe it's time to point out that there's no "TMO" - that's just an 
acronym made up by Barry. Apparently there is not just one TM 
organization - but numerous orgs founded by MMY in India the U.S. and 
all over the world. There is no TMO.

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[Richard J. Williams]

On 4/11/2014 7:00 AM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com wrote:
Judy, Richard, Ann, Nablus -- also produced dozens of posts under 
another thread dumping on Barry. 

>
As I pointed out, placebos are not used in the treatment of medical 
problems in humans by a physician. Also, what exactly would be the 
placebo in TM, since TM practice based just on thinking? So, many 
questions, so few answers.



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[Richard J. Williams]

On 4/11/2014 5:04 AM, Michael Jackson wrote:
> The assertion that world peace can be achieved by people doing a 
> practice that has never produced promised results on any level 
> (meaning no peace, no true levitation, invisibility, etc), the 
> assertion that yagyas make any discernible difference, that living in 
> a vastu home guarantees alleviation of life problems when the actual 
> opposite has been seen right there in Fairfield IS a "ridiculous 
> extreme" point of view. Just sayin'.
It kind of looks like MJ got mixed up - he quit TM and started doing 
Qigong, which has at it's basis the distribution of Qi energy - just 
like the ME. Just sayin'.

You have to wonder how a guy could get so indoctrinated in just a few 
years working in a kitchen. In various Buddhist Qigong traditions, the 
aim is to still the mind, either through outward focus, for example on a 
place, or through inward focus on the breath, a mantra, a koan, 
emptiness, or the idea of the eternal. In the Confucius scholar 
tradition, meditation is focused on humanity and virtue, with the aim of 
self-enlightenment. Go figure.

"Qigong is a meditative practice that utilizes breath awareness, 
visualization, mantra, chanting, sound, and focus on philosophical 
concepts such as qi circulation, aesthetics, or moral values. In 
traditional Chinese medicine and Daoist practice, the meditative focus 
is commonly on cultivating qi in dantian energy centers and balancing qi 
flow in meridian and other pathways."

Work cited:

'Roots of Chinese Chi Kung: Secrets of Chi Kung Training'
by Jwing-Ming Yang
The Martial Arts Association

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This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection 
is active.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] An article on the Co$ for those who are interested in cult topics

[Share Long]

Jeez, turq, for one thing, most TMers are NOT surrounded by their families! If 
their families are TMers, they are not involved in the TMO! But yes to friends, 
which is a good thing if a person has been in the TMO for decades! Meaning, 
good to have become friends with co-workers. doesn't that happen in orgs like 
IBM, etc?! More later...


On Friday, April 11, 2014 2:59 AM, TurquoiseBee  wrote:
 
  
I know that at least a couple of lurkers are interested, because they've told 
me offline that they follow $cientology forums looking for story leads. For the 
TMers here, the story is worth a read to see the similarities -- the ways that 
one cult (the Co$) uses essentially the same tactics that another cult (the 
TMO) uses.  


Escape From Scientology

 
   Escape From Scientology
How one young woman risked everything to break out of the prison that is the 
Church of Scientology  
View on www.vocativ.com Preview by Yahoo  

Re: [FairfieldLife] TM and TM-Sidhis are not but Placebo Effect

[dhamiltony2k5]

7Ray, good observation. You are completely correct, these are fallacious, 
ignorant, anti-science and vile accusations being made against TM and the 
meditating community here.  These critics simply do not know what they are 
talking about.  Instead folks should meditate here together with the group and 
experience it for themselves and not rely on some quitters infected with their 
own brand of personal hate to spin what is going on here. 
  Large deep meditation happens here twice a day. It is a fabulous place for 
larger spiritual practice. Mid-day the Pundits up on their campus are chanting 
in their groups. Sit up there and meditate too. It is all an awesome field 
effect for spiritual people.  Experience totally refutes the absolute bitter 
negativity of the criticism in these guys,
 -Buck
 

 

 7Ray writes:
 

 tell me,

 because I really don't know, but is it a fallacy when
one cites examples from a ridiculous extreme to try to make
their points?  I mean, sure, we all like to hear
outrageous stories, but when that's the main content of
what one's posts, it does get a little predictable.
 Just sayin', as they say
 

 

 mjackson74 writes:
 The assertion that world peace can be achieved by people doing a practice that 
has never produced promised results on any level (meaning no peace, no true 
levitation, invisibility, etc), the assertion that yagyas make any discernible 
difference, that living in a vastu home guarantees alleviation of life problems 
when the actual opposite has been seen right there in Fairfield IS a 
"ridiculous extreme" point of view. Just sayin'.
 

 

 From: Michael Jackson  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Friday, April 11, 2014 12:09 PM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?
 
 
   Now that is a TM story I have never heard! Details please!!!

 
 On Fri, 4/11/14, salyavin808  wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Friday, April 11, 2014, 5:57 AM
 
 People did, apparently
 two gov's were entrusted with the takings in Kenya
 during a big push there in the 70's and they absconded,
 obviously having weighed up the pro's and cons of a TM
 teachers wage and life in Barbados!
 
 turquoiseb writes:






Here's a funny thought -- what if the real reason Maharishi funneled so much 
money back to his relatives in India is that 'way back in the beginning, when 
he first decided to become a spiritual teacher, they made him sign the same 
contract they now impose on the pandits? For every $200 he made, he had to send 
them $150. For every $200 million he made, he had to send them $150 million. 
That would explain a great deal about TM-related pricing over the years...  :-)



 .
 .
 
  

Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[Share Long]

Thanks, Steve, I think this is very insightful. I also think life is moving us 
all along to full development, etc. Everybody has their own stuff to deal with. 
I've found common sense, which you have, very helpful. Oh, and a sense of humor 
(-:


On Thursday, April 10, 2014 10:26 PM, "steve.sun...@yahoo.com" 
 wrote:
 
  
I'll tell you Michael, the spiritual gambit can be dicey.   I feel I am barely 
holding on half the time.  Seriously.  Now, I don't know if that is the 
pressure to make payroll every week, or "something good is happening", but it's 
a wild ride, with no shortage of pitfalls.  Maybe there should be more warning 
given.

I have three kids.  I never mention anything of about TM to any of them.  

Step on the spiritual path at your own risk.



---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :


ANd I know a number who have been screwed up royally by the experience - talk 
to someone who has had a family member try to commit suicide and I am talking 
about long term sidha or governor tried to commit suicide, someone who was so 
heavily invested in all the Movement candy it was like heroin to them - a few 
chats with those folk and you might just get a different perspective 


On Fri, 4/11/14, steve.sundur@...  wrote:
>
>Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?
>To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
>Date: Friday, April 11, 2014, 2:34 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Share, I do
>like Barry, but I think he has gone ecstatic with this new
>theory he's put forth.  I think he thinks he's
>found the Rosetta Stone or something.
>When
>the siddhis were first introduced, I was with a small group
>in my dorm, many of whom had concrete experiences with the
>siddhis.
>You
>what one of those guys is doing now.  He's a
>respected tax lawyer in the northeast, recipient of many
>recognitions.  And also happens to be a supporter of
>the TMO.  In fact it's listed in his business
>profile along with his other accomplishments, including
>being a graduate of MIU.
>But
>he must be a deluded cult apologist according to the
>detractors here.
>In
>fact, look at the accomplishments of many everyday TMers,
>and former TM teachers.  I know many who live quite
>normal lives.  Not heavily invested in the
>organization, but have enjoyed, and still enjoy
>benefits.
>That
>is so anethema to the story some would have you believe
>here.
>
>
>---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
>wrote :
>
>turq, research and my own experience
>indicates that field independence develops in TMers. That
>alone would decrease and or prevent any alleged placebo
>effect and strengthen a person's ability to
>"divorce" from it. I think this is one of the
>greatest benefits of TM. It liberates. Even from itself.
>
>Plus I doubt than a placebo effect, even if it occurred in
>the beginning, can last for decades! Especially if a person
>has very little contact with the TMO.
>
>Lastly, again going by my own experience, I'd say that
>the language of the sutra doesn't matter as a
>person's awareness settles into finer levels of
>existence.
>
>On Thursday, April 10, 2014 3:17 AM,
>TurquoiseBee  wrote:
>
> I think one can make a case that they are. Here,
>I'll start...
>
>First,
>let's look at the basic TM technique, which uses
>Sanskrit mantras described by the TMO as "meaningless
>sounds" (which are really the names or "calling
>cards" of Hindu gods and goddesses, as anyone who can
>read books from India would know) as a mechanism for
>meditation. You *could* make a case that there is something
>"special" about these mantras, some sonic quality
>that actually facilitates meditation, because of course they
>have no meaning to most of the people who think them. 
>
>But that's not true for
>the TM-Sidhis. As anyone who has ever learned them knows
>(but gets really, really uptight when someone
>like myself points out), what you paid
>thousands of dollars for (a good argument for the Placebo
>Effect in itself) were a number of *English language
>phrases* straight from a translation of the Yoga Sutras, all
>of which very *definitely* have meaning. After a period of
>TM meditation, the "TM Sidha" is instructed to
>think them -- *in English* (or whatever modern language they
>were taught the TM-Sidhis in) in a particular way, and then
>wait for the effects. 
>
>I
>believe that a strong case can be made for Placebo
>Effect-like *expectation* in all of this, for three reasons.
>First, the TM-Sidhis were initially marketed *as a way of
>achieving and mastering all of the "siddhis" these
>phrases describe*. The original (first few years)
>"intro lectures" about the TM-Sidhi program were
>full of promises that you would learn to levitate and be
>able to perform other siddhis. Tales were told by people
>marketing and selling the new (and rather expensive) courses
>of people
>having been seen levitating, or
>walking through walls, or demonstrating invisibility. All of
>these t

Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[steve.sundur]

Good points
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
 
 Share, I do like Barry, but I think he has gone ecstatic with this new theory 
he's put forth.  I think he thinks he's found the Rosetta Stone or something.

Steve, I suspect you might want to rethink this. Yesterday I posted a *theory*, 
presenting it very much *as* a theory. I only replied to my original post a few 
times about the theory itself -- once to Michael, twice to Share, once to 
Salyavin, and once (humorously) to Bhairitu. I made a couple of posts under the 
topic correcting Judy on inaccuracies (a polite word for "lies") she was trying 
to spread about the history of the TM-Sidhi courses, but not arguing the 
Placebo Effect thang per se. At no point did I attempt to "sell" the theory, to 
you or anyone else. 

In contrast, *most* of the other 58 posts (so far) in the thread were from 
people dumping on Barry. One might suspect that something about it "pushed 
their buttons." Another bunch of the same people -- Judy, Richard, Ann, Nablus 
-- also produced dozens of posts under another thread dumping on Barry. 
Presumably they got *their* buttons kinda pushed, too.

As for the theory itself, I can think of two more pieces of "supporting 
evidence" for it. Do you remember how the "flying" (actually, hopping) took 
place in "waves?" Nothing would happen and nothing would happen, and then one 
person would start to bounce, and almost immediately a whole bunch of other 
people would start bouncing around as well. Might I suggest that suggestion 
might have had something to do with this?

The other thing is the barking and growling and shouting and moaning. I don't 
know if you were around back then, but it was pretty much a feature of early 
TM-Sidhi practice. People would start barking like dogs and shouting and 
flailing their arms about and moaning and all sorts of other stuff. Again, it 
tended to happen in "waves" -- one person starting it and then others picking 
up on the suggestion and doing it, too. That certainly speaks to the 
possibility of suggestion. However, something *else* speaks even more strongly 
of suggestion. At some point Maharishi heard about all of this ruckus, which 
made the domes sound like an out-of-control evangelical tent meeting, and he 
declared that it was inappropriate. Almost overnight, it stopped. The *same* 
people who had been claiming that all this noise emanating from them was "not 
in their control" suddenly found that it was. Go figure. The way I figure it, 
it's all explained handily by Placebo Effect -- suggestion, then effect.

But again, all of this is just theory on my part, and furthermore a theory I am 
*not* trying to sell you. If you somehow feel threatened by me presenting it -- 
as Judy, Richard, Ann, and Nablus obviously do -- I would look inside for the 
cause of that rather than to me.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[TurquoiseBee]

From: salyavin808 

To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2014 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?
 


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :


From: salyavin808 

To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2014 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

 
Those are all the details I have, I'm afraid. But they were recounted to me by 
someone who was there. They taught hundreds of people every day in those big 
drives. One came in, a quick puja and mantra later then the next one, sun up, 
until sun down! 

Makes me wonder if they count towards the 5,000,000 who are supposed to have 
learnt TM, because my friend said it obviously wasn't an ideal teaching 
situation and the chances of getting a follow up to see if they were doing it 
right (or at all) were pretty darn slim. But orders is orders and then someone 
ran off with the money anyway! 

One wonders whether Maharishi commissioned a "hit yagya" in
retribution.  :-)

Imagine the hushed talk of incoming karma round the dinner table that night, 
must have been terrifying. And I wonder who got to tell Marshy, someone with 
thick skin I should think!
And, y'know, my joke about the "hit yagya" might not be that far off. After 
all, isn't one of the rumored reasons why Jerry Jarvis fell from favor and was 
eventually booted out of the TM movement because he dared to pay the legal team 
that had lost the New Jersey TM court case? According to the rumors, Maharishi 
had told him directly not to pay them, and he did it anyway. 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[salyavin808]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 From: salyavin808 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Friday, April 11, 2014 1:26 PM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?
 
 
   Those are all the details I have, I'm afraid. But they were recounted to me 
by someone who was there. They taught hundreds of people every day in those big 
drives. One came in, a quick puja and mantra later then the next one, sun up, 
until sun down! 
 

 Makes me wonder if they count towards the 5,000,000 who are supposed to have 
learnt TM, because my friend said it obviously wasn't an ideal teaching 
situation and the chances of getting a follow up to see if they were doing it 
right (or at all) were pretty darn slim. But orders is orders and then someone 
ran off with the money anyway! 


One wonders whether Maharishi commissioned a "hit yagya" in retribution.  :-)
 

 Imagine the hushed talk of incoming karma round the dinner table that night, 
must have been terrifying. And I wonder who got to tell Marshy, someone with 
thick skin I should think!
 

 


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Now that is a TM story I have never heard! Details please!!!
 
 On Fri, 4/11/14, salyavin808 mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Friday, April 11, 2014, 5:57 AM
 
 People did, apparently
 two gov's were entrusted with the takings in Kenya
 during a big push there in the 70's and they absconded,
 obviously having weighed up the pro's and cons of a TM
 teachers wage and life in Barbados!
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 

 wrote :
 
 I would-a
 smuggled money for Marshy if he'd-a asked me, as long as
 I got to stick a third of it in my pocket.
 
 
 On Thu, 4/10/14, salyavin808 mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com>
 wrote:
 
 
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but
 Placebo Effect?
 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 
 Date: Thursday, April 10, 2014, 3:25 PM 



 


 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[TurquoiseBee]

From: salyavin808 

To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2014 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?
 


  
Those are all the details I have, I'm afraid. But they were recounted to me by 
someone who was there. They taught hundreds of people every day in those big 
drives. One came in, a quick puja and mantra later then the next one, sun up, 
until sun down! 

Makes me wonder if they count towards the 5,000,000 who are supposed to have 
learnt TM, because my friend said it obviously wasn't an ideal teaching 
situation and the chances of getting a follow up to see if they were doing it 
right (or at all) were pretty darn slim. But orders is orders and then someone 
ran off with the money anyway! 


One wonders whether Maharishi commissioned a "hit yagya" in retribution.  :-)


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :


Now that is a TM story I have never heard! Details please!!!


On Fri, 4/11/14, salyavin808  wrote:
>
>Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?
>To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
>Date: Friday, April 11, 2014, 5:57 AM
>
>People did, apparently
>two gov's were entrusted with the takings in Kenya
>during a big push there in the 70's and they absconded,
>obviously having weighed up the pro's and cons of a TM
>teachers wage and life in Barbados!
>
>---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
>wrote :
>
>I would-a
>smuggled money for Marshy if he'd-a asked me, as long as
>I got to stick a third of it in my pocket.
>
>
>On Thu, 4/10/14, salyavin808 
>wrote:
>
>
>
>Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but
>Placebo Effect?
>
>To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
>
>Date: Thursday, April 10, 2014, 3:25 PM 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[salyavin808]

 Those are all the details I have, I'm afraid. But they were recounted to me by 
someone who was there. They taught hundreds of people every day in those big 
drives. One came in, a quick puja and mantra later then the next one, sun up, 
until sun down! 
 

 Makes me wonder if they count towards the 5,000,000 who are supposed to have 
learnt TM, because my friend said it obviously wasn't an ideal teaching 
situation and the chances of getting a follow up to see if they were doing it 
right (or at all) were pretty darn slim. But orders is orders and then someone 
ran off with the money anyway! 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Now that is a TM story I have never heard! Details please!!!
 
 On Fri, 4/11/14, salyavin808 mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Friday, April 11, 2014, 5:57 AM
 
 People did, apparently
 two gov's were entrusted with the takings in Kenya
 during a big push there in the 70's and they absconded,
 obviously having weighed up the pro's and cons of a TM
 teachers wage and life in Barbados!
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 

 wrote :
 
 I would-a
 smuggled money for Marshy if he'd-a asked me, as long as
 I got to stick a third of it in my pocket.
 
 
 On Thu, 4/10/14, salyavin808 mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com>
 wrote:
 
 
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but
 Placebo Effect?
 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 
 Date: Thursday, April 10, 2014, 3:25 PM 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

[TurquoiseBee]

From: Michael Jackson 

To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2014 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?
 


  
Now that is a TM story I have never heard! Details please!!!


On Fri, 4/11/14, salyavin808  wrote:

Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, April 11, 2014, 5:57 AM

People did, apparently
two gov's were entrusted with the takings in Kenya
during a big push there in the 70's and they absconded,
obviously having weighed up the pro's and cons of a TM
teachers wage and life in Barbados!

Here's a funny thought -- what if the real reason Maharishi funneled so much 
money back to his relatives in India is that 'way back in the beginning, when 
he first decided to become a spiritual teacher, they made him sign the same 
contract they now impose on the pandits? For every $200 he made, he had to send 
them $150. For every $200 million he made, he had to send them $150 million. 
That would explain a great deal about TM-related pricing over the years...  :-)