[FairfieldLife] Re: I'm converting back to TM

2006-09-05 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
 
   Why would they be TBers if they didn't believe that TM was 
   the best thing since sliced bread?
  
  Well, that's sorta the point, dude.
  
  For people who are part of many other organizations
  that teach meditation, it would never occur to them
  to think that their particular brand of meditation
  was the best or better than all others. 
  
  The *reason* this would not have occurred to them
  is that, unlike in the TMO, they were never *told*
  that their technique was the best, over and over
  and over and over and over and over, for years and
  years and decades. The latter approach is called
  brainwashing, dude. That the people who have been
  subjected to it believe that their technique is
  best says nothing whatsoever about the technique,
  only about the effectiveness of the brainwashing.
  
  True Believers are *created*. They don't just 
  happen. You believe that TM is the best because
  you've been TOLD that so often, for so many years.
  And sadly, you still don't realize this...
 
 I'm well-aware of teh mechanism. However, being brainwashed 
 doesn't preclude being correct...

IF it were correct, why would it be necessary to 
try to convince its practitioners that it was
the best? Why would it be necessary to claim
it was, over and over and over and over and over?
Why would it be necessary to browbeat its prac-
titioners to make them afraid to try any other
technique of meditation or even sit in the same
room with someone practicing another technique
of meditation, so that some comparison might
be made?

Let's face it, dude...you've been brainwashed.
You've been told to look down on any form of 
meditation other than TM, so you do. 

And the amazing thing is, you do all this with-
out *ever* having tried any of these other
techniques yourself, to see if what you were
told is true. You consider giving them a try
to be off the program and dangerous and
somehow disrespectful to Maharishi, right?

And you think all these ideas are your own.

Yeah, right.








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[FairfieldLife] Re: I'm converting back to TM

2006-09-05 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
  
Why would they be TBers if they didn't believe that TM was 
the best thing since sliced bread?
   
   Well, that's sorta the point, dude.
   
   For people who are part of many other organizations
   that teach meditation, it would never occur to them
   to think that their particular brand of meditation
   was the best or better than all others. 
   
   The *reason* this would not have occurred to them
   is that, unlike in the TMO, they were never *told*
   that their technique was the best, over and over
   and over and over and over and over, for years and
   years and decades. The latter approach is called
   brainwashing, dude. That the people who have been
   subjected to it believe that their technique is
   best says nothing whatsoever about the technique,
   only about the effectiveness of the brainwashing.
   
   True Believers are *created*. They don't just 
   happen. You believe that TM is the best because
   you've been TOLD that so often, for so many years.
   And sadly, you still don't realize this...
  
  I'm well-aware of teh mechanism. However, being brainwashed 
  doesn't preclude being correct...
 
 IF it were correct, why would it be necessary to 
 try to convince its practitioners that it was
 the best? Why would it be necessary to claim
 it was, over and over and over and over and over?
 Why would it be necessary to browbeat its prac-
 titioners to make them afraid to try any other
 technique of meditation or even sit in the same
 room with someone practicing another technique
 of meditation, so that some comparison might
 be made?
 
 Let's face it, dude...you've been brainwashed.
 You've been told to look down on any form of 
 meditation other than TM, so you do. 
 
 And the amazing thing is, you do all this with-
 out *ever* having tried any of these other
 techniques yourself, to see if what you were
 told is true. You consider giving them a try
 to be off the program and dangerous and
 somehow disrespectful to Maharishi, right?
 
 And you think all these ideas are your own.
 
 Yeah, right.


Well no, the ideas certainly aren't my own. The concept resonates in a 
truethy way within 
me.

And I don't claim to be certain of my intuitions: I'm the guy who sold Apple 
stock at 
1/30th of its present value for no good reason, and managed to convince my 
stockbroker 
to unload $100K worth of Intel shares during the hieght of the fdiv bug thing 
(last time he 
spoke to me, it was VERY difficult for him to maintain a polite tone in his 
voice).

Don't EVER trust my judgement, unless you want to play a contrarian.

OTOH, what's a True Believer to do? Assume that I'm NEVER right and always do 
the 
opposite of what my gut tells me?







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[FairfieldLife] Re: I'm converting back to TM

2006-09-05 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ 
wrote:
snip
   True Believers are *created*. They don't just 
   happen. You believe that TM is the best because
   you've been TOLD that so often, for so many years.
   And sadly, you still don't realize this...
  
  I'm well-aware of teh mechanism. However, being brainwashed 
  doesn't preclude being correct...
 
 IF it were correct, why would it be necessary to 
 try to convince its practitioners that it was
 the best? Why would it be necessary to claim
 it was, over and over and over and over and over?

I don't think this is an accurate description,
but that's another issue.

In any case, to the extent I understood that TM
was being described as the best, I took it with
a very large saltshaker.  It didn't really figure
into my thinking until I'd had considerable
experience with the practice.

But at some point I had an Aha!-type realization.
*This* (my experience of the technique) is why they
say it's the best (actually more like the most
efficient technique available for householders).

To use a negative analogy, it's like a teenager
being told it's dangerous to drive when drunk.
The teenager doesn't pay any attention until one
day when he's driving drunk, he narrowly avoids
running off the road, and he can very clearly see
that being drunk is what put him in danger.  Oh,
so *that's* why they say it's dangerous to drive
drunk!

It isn't that he's been brainwashed into thinking
it's dangerous, it's that what he's been told has
suddenly been validated by his own experience.

Of course, the analogy is loaded, in that there's
plenty of objective evidence that driving while
drunk is dangerous.  I'm just trying to describe
the recognition mechanism for an individual.

 Why would it be necessary to browbeat its prac-
 titioners to make them afraid to try any other
 technique of meditation or even sit in the same
 room with someone practicing another technique
 of meditation, so that some comparison might
 be made?

I never had any sense of *fear* in this regard.
Once I'd had my Aha! experience, it seemed like
merely a practical consideration.  If what I'm
doing is the best, why bother with anything
else?

(Nor, for that matter, did I ever feel
browbeaten on this point.)

What's virtually impossible to explain is why
one might conclude on the basis of one's own
experience, with no or minimal experience of other
techniques, that TM is the best to someone who
hasn't had the Aha! experience.

I've used a similar analogy to Jim's of walking
vs. crawling: if you know how to ride a bicycle,
it really doesn't make sense to try other methods
of riding a bicycle, such as propelling it with
your feet on the ground, or running alongside it,
then leaping on and resting your feet on the pedals
while it coasts.  It's just self-evident that
turning the pedals with your feet is the most
effective way to get somewhere on a bicycle;
there's simply no need to try other methods.

But with TM, this is a *subjective* experience of
how the mind works (not of mental content but
rather the mechanics of the thinking process),
just as it becomes self-evident that turning the
pedals makes the wheels turn and propels the bicycle
forward--but entirely inside your own head, where
you can't demonstrate it to anybody else.

 Let's face it, dude...you've been brainwashed.
 You've been told to look down on any form of 
 meditation other than TM, so you do. 
 
 And the amazing thing is, you do all this with-
 out *ever* having tried any of these other
 techniques yourself, to see if what you were
 told is true. You consider giving them a try
 to be off the program and dangerous and
 somehow disrespectful to Maharishi, right?

Disrespectful to Maharishi??  I seriously doubt
Lawson worries about its being disrespectful.  I
certainly don't.  Nor would I consider it dangerous
except insofar as it might inhibit my practice of
TM--and again, not because I've been told this, but
because my experience of TM makes it self-evident.
Just as, if I wanted to get somewhere as soon as
possible, I wouldn't fool around with another
method of riding a bicycle.

 And you think all these ideas are your own.

Ideas based on personal experience, in my case, at
least.

 Yeah, right.

Funny how Barry's Trust your own experience mantra
is so easily discarded when it comes to someone's
experience of TM.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: I'm converting back to TM

2006-09-05 Thread TurquoiseB
 Funny how Barry's Trust your own experience mantra
 is so easily discarded when it comes to someone's
 experience of TM.

Funny how the TM is the best technique of meditation
in the world mantra seems to spring so easily to the
lips of those who have never in their lives learned
another.  

Oh, excuse me...except something they read in a book
and tried once or twice *before* they learned TM, 
after which they mysteriously became convinced that
to try anything else would be beneath them. No...not
a bit of brainwashing here, no.  :-)







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[FairfieldLife] Re: I'm converting back to TM

2006-09-05 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Funny how Barry's Trust your own experience mantra
  is so easily discarded when it comes to someone's
  experience of TM.
 
 Funny how the TM is the best technique of meditation
 in the world mantra seems to spring so easily to the
 lips of those who have never in their lives learned
 another.

Funny how assiduously Barry avoids addressing
the various glaring inconsistencies in Barry's
Rules and does his level best to change the
subject.

Also funny how he doesn't seem to even *see*
material that doesn't quite fit with Barry's
Rules.

In the post he's responding to, I explicitly
addressed the quick-change-the-subject objection
he raises above:

What's virtually impossible to explain is why
one might conclude on the basis of one's own
experience, with no or minimal experience of other
techniques, that TM is the best to someone who
hasn't had the Aha! experience.

I've used a similar analogy to Jim's of walking
vs. crawling: if you know how to ride a bicycle,
it really doesn't make sense to try other methods
of riding a bicycle, such as propelling it with
your feet on the ground, or running alongside it,
then leaping on and resting your feet on the pedals
while it coasts. It's just self-evident that
turning the pedals with your feet is the most
effective way to get somewhere on a bicycle;
there's simply no need to try other methods.

But with TM, this is a *subjective* experience of
how the mind works (not of mental content but
rather the mechanics of the thinking process),
just as it becomes self-evident that turning the
pedals makes the wheels turn and propels the bicycle
forward--but entirely inside your own head, where
you can't demonstrate it to anybody else.

 Oh, excuse me...except something they read in a book
 and tried once or twice *before* they learned TM, 

Only one of the techniques I tried did I read in a
book (Benson's technique, which Benson himself insists
can be learned from a book).  Also tried some other
stuff (not from a book) *after* learning TM.  The
results were part of the experiential data that
ultimately led to my Aha! realization about TM.

 after which they mysteriously became convinced that
 to try anything else would be beneath them.

Most definitely mysterious to those who have not
had the same experience, as I already pointed out.

 No...not
 a bit of brainwashing here, no.  :-)

Right, not a bit here, no (at least not in *my*
post).

And we're back to the point Barry was so desperately
trying to distract attention from:

Funny how Barry's Trust your own experience mantra
is so easily discarded when it comes to someone's
experience of TM.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: I'm converting back to TM

2006-09-05 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Funny how Barry's Trust your own experience mantra
  is so easily discarded when it comes to someone's
  experience of TM.
 
 Funny how the TM is the best technique of meditation
 in the world mantra seems to spring so easily to the
 lips of those who have never in their lives learned
 another.  
 
 Oh, excuse me...except something they read in a book
 and tried once or twice *before* they learned TM, 
 after which they mysteriously became convinced that
 to try anything else would be beneath them. No...not
 a bit of brainwashing here, no.  :-)


For me, it is intuitively obvious that TM is best. Now, I'm well aware that my 
intuition is often/
always wrong, but what of it?





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[FairfieldLife] Re: I'm converting back to TM

2006-09-04 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ wrote:
 
  I¹ve heard that people tend to sit in affinity groups in the 
  domes: the Amma group, the Waking Down group, etc.
 
 How about the just plain old superior to everything else, 
 TM/TM-Sidhis group?

That's called the True Believer group. :-)

Thank you at least for being honest about your elitism;
very few of the TBs are.









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[FairfieldLife] Re: I'm converting back to TM

2006-09-04 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ wrote:
  
   I¹ve heard that people tend to sit in affinity groups in the 
   domes: the Amma group, the Waking Down group, etc.
  
  How about the just plain old superior to everything else, 
  TM/TM-Sidhis group?
 
 That's called the True Believer group. :-)
 
 Thank you at least for being honest about your elitism;
 very few of the TBs are.




Er, um, yeah, right.

Why would they be TBers if they didn't believe that TM was the best thing since 
sliced 
bread?








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[FairfieldLife] Re: I'm converting back to TM

2006-09-04 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ wrote:
   
I¹ve heard that people tend to sit in affinity groups in the 
domes: the Amma group, the Waking Down group, etc.
   
   How about the just plain old superior to everything else, 
   TM/TM-Sidhis group?
  
  That's called the True Believer group. :-)
  
  Thank you at least for being honest about your elitism;
  very few of the TBs are.
 
 
 
 Er, um, yeah, right.
 
 Why would they be TBers if they didn't believe that TM was 
 the best thing since sliced bread?

Well, that's sorta the point, dude.

For people who are part of many other organizations
that teach meditation, it would never occur to them
to think that their particular brand of meditation
was the best or better than all others. 

The *reason* this would not have occurred to them
is that, unlike in the TMO, they were never *told*
that their technique was the best, over and over
and over and over and over and over, for years and
years and decades. The latter approach is called
brainwashing, dude. That the people who have been
subjected to it believe that their technique is
best says nothing whatsoever about the technique,
only about the effectiveness of the brainwashing.

True Believers are *created*. They don't just 
happen. You believe that TM is the best because
you've been TOLD that so often, for so many years.
And sadly, you still don't realize this...









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[FairfieldLife] Re: I'm converting back to TM

2006-09-04 Thread jim_flanegin
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ 
wrote:
  
   I¹ve heard that people tend to sit in affinity groups in the 
   domes: the Amma group, the Waking Down group, etc.
  
  How about the just plain old superior to everything else, 
  TM/TM-Sidhis group?
 
 That's called the True Believer group. :-)
 
 Thank you at least for being honest about your elitism;
 very few of the TBs are.

Similarly, I am a True Believer in walking upright as the most 
efficient way to self-propel myself from 'A' to 'B'. However, if you 
insist on crawling on your belly, I guess that makes me an elitist, 
eh? :-) Comparative reality be damned, eh? Its all about ego isn't 
it? Rubbish.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: I'm converting back to TM

2006-09-04 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ wrote:

 I¹ve heard that people tend to sit in affinity groups in the 
 domes: the Amma group, the Waking Down group, etc.

How about the just plain old superior to everything else, 
TM/TM-Sidhis group?
   
   That's called the True Believer group. :-)
   
   Thank you at least for being honest about your elitism;
   very few of the TBs are.
  
  
  
  Er, um, yeah, right.
  
  Why would they be TBers if they didn't believe that TM was 
  the best thing since sliced bread?
 
 Well, that's sorta the point, dude.
 
 For people who are part of many other organizations
 that teach meditation, it would never occur to them
 to think that their particular brand of meditation
 was the best or better than all others. 
 
 The *reason* this would not have occurred to them
 is that, unlike in the TMO, they were never *told*
 that their technique was the best, over and over
 and over and over and over and over, for years and
 years and decades. The latter approach is called
 brainwashing, dude. That the people who have been
 subjected to it believe that their technique is
 best says nothing whatsoever about the technique,
 only about the effectiveness of the brainwashing.
 
 True Believers are *created*. They don't just 
 happen. You believe that TM is the best because
 you've been TOLD that so often, for so many years.
 And sadly, you still don't realize this...


I'm well-aware of teh mechanism. However, being brainwashed doesn't preclude 
being 
correct...






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[FairfieldLife] Re: I'm converting back to TM

2006-09-03 Thread dhamiltony2k5
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 Bill Maher did a bit on his show this week about converting to 
Islam.  
 Unlike, say, Judaism which is a long, drawn out affair if you want 
to 
 convert to it -- 
you gott take classes, study the religion, etc. -- 
 according to Islam you just say two sentences and you're in!
 
 So Maher suggests that all 300 million Americans just convert and 
this 
 whole sticky mess will be over with.
 
 Pretty good idea...



Yes, and if people would just 're-convert' renouncing those other 
things and saints, sign the papers and get back to practicing only 
their TM in group the numbers could get where we need them for tru 
world peace to happen and this whole sticky mess would be over. 
Certainly ther is a scientific chart that is published in peer 
review 
that shows the problem is not with the tru-believer but with those 
other people who do not practice TM in group any longer.  It is only 
a 
matter now of converting those non-group practitioners now.  It is 
about conversion of the faithless of the meditating community.  The 
*final solution* probably has to do with removing the influence from 
the community of those non-group practising meditators.  





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I'm converting back to TM

2006-09-03 Thread MDixon6569






In a message dated 9/3/06 6:51:20 A.M. Central Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
  Bill Maher did a bit on his show this week about converting to Islam. 
   Unlike, say, Judaism which is a long, drawn out affair if you want 
  to convert to it -- you gott take classes, study the religion, 
  etc. --  according to Islam you just say two sentences and you're 
  in!  So Maher suggests that all 300 million Americans just 
  convert and this whole sticky mess will be over with.  
  Pretty good idea...

I noticed in an interview with Steve Cintanni and his camera man that at 
one point while the main person in charge of their capture was interviewing 
them, that he, at one point, through up his hands and exclaimed "it would be so 
much easier if all you westerners would just convert to Islam". Yes , submission 
to Allah via a bunch of ayatollahs would make things easier for them. 
Can anybody in this forum begin to imagine having to live under shiria law? None 
of us would live long and poor Judy would be the first to 
go!
__._,_.___





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[FairfieldLife] Re: I'm converting back to TM

2006-09-03 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snip
 I noticed in an interview with Steve Cintanni and his camera man that 
at  one 
 point while the main person in charge of their capture was 
interviewing  
 them, that he, at one point, through up his hands and exclaimed it 
would be so  
 much easier if all you westerners would just convert to Islam. Yes , 
 submission  to Allah via a bunch of ayatollahs would  make things 
easier for them.  
 Can anybody in this forum begin to imagine having to live under 
shiria law? 
 None  of us would live long and poor Judy would be the first to  go!

grin







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I'm converting back to TM

2006-09-03 Thread Rick Archer
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I'm converting back to TM





Ive heard that people tend to sit in affinity groups in the domes: the Amma group, the Waking Down group, etc.

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[FairfieldLife] Re: I'm converting back to TM

2006-09-03 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I¹ve heard that people tend to sit in affinity groups in the domes: the Amma
 group, the Waking Down group, etc.


How about the just plain old superior to everything else, TM/TM-Sidhis group?







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[FairfieldLife] Re: I'm converting back to TM

2006-09-03 Thread new . morning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ wrote:
 
  I¹ve heard that people tend to sit in affinity groups in the
domes: the Amma
  group, the Waking Down group, etc.
 
 
 How about the just plain old superior to everything else,
TM/TM-Sidhis group?


I heard all those tested on EEG's flock together. :)











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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I'm converting back to TM

2006-09-03 Thread Sal Sunshine
On Sep 3, 2006, at 2:18 PM, Rick Archer wrote:

 I’ve heard that people tend to sit in affinity groups in the domes: 
 the Amma group, the Waking Down group, etc.  _

Where do the moodmakers sit? :)

Sal



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[FairfieldLife] Re: I'm converting back to TM

2006-09-03 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Sep 3, 2006, at 2:18 PM, Rick Archer wrote:
 
  I've heard that people tend to sit in affinity groups in the domes: 
  the Amma group, the Waking Down group, etc.  _
 
 Where do the moodmakers sit? :)
 
 Sal


Bites tongue...






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[FairfieldLife] Re: I'm converting back to TM

2006-09-03 Thread new . morning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 On Sep 3, 2006, at 2:18 PM, Rick Archer wrote:
 
  I've heard that people tend to sit in affinity groups in the domes: 
  the Amma group, the Waking Down group, etc.  _
 
 Where do the moodmakers sit? :)
 
 Sal


haha.

and the slackers.





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