[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths Man in the fire

[hanumanhoffman9]

The karma is unfathomable.
It is no doubt a burden they must carry with them.
Such a leela. 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "bmorry2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I remember attending Steven Hauring's funeral---all of his Sterling 
> buddies were crying and mourning.  Too bad not one of them was paying 
> enough attention to save his life when he first got sick in the sweat 
> lodge  His wife should have sued them for negligence as well as 
> being jerks and assholes!  (Sterling men often proudly refer to 
> themselves as jerks and assholes.)
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Gillam" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > --- hanumanhoffman9 wrote:
> > >
> > > In a previous post it was mentioned about a 
> > > from Ritam Corp. who fell into a fire.
> > > That man was Steven Hauring. One of the 
> > > sweetest men ever. This was at the Cedar Creek 
> > > Lodge, a number of men who had enjoyed the Sterling 
> > > Men's weekend were participating in a sweat lodge. 
> > > The peer pressure to not quit was intense.
> > 
> > I was thinking of participating in a sweat lodge put on by 
> > a Wampanoag Indian acquaintance who holds them in 
> > prisons and in Europe as a calling. But when a friend told 
> > me participants stay in the lodge for an hour, I remembered 
> > Steven and said no thanks.
> > 
> > Dr. Bieler (of Bieler's Broth fame) said it only takes five minutes 
> > of profuse sweating to flush whatever toxins can be flushed 
> > in that manner. Any more sweating merely contributes to 
> > dehydration. And what does one breathe after 20 minutes 
> > in a sweat lodge? Surely the oxygen is gone.
> > 
> > Steven's widow told an interesting story I still recall hearing
> > second hand. Steven apparently had an affinity for owls. I 
> > guess you'd say they were his totem animal. Upon leaving 
> > the hospital, his wife encountered an owl standing by the 
> > walkway. This was in broad daylight on the campus of the 
> > busy University of Iowa Hospitals and Clinics. Yet the owl 
> > just stood there, impassively, looking at her, like an omen. 
> > Like a goodbye.
> >
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths Man in the fire

[bmorry2000]

I remember attending Steven Hauring's funeral---all of his Sterling 
buddies were crying and mourning.  Too bad not one of them was paying 
enough attention to save his life when he first got sick in the sweat 
lodge  His wife should have sued them for negligence as well as 
being jerks and assholes!  (Sterling men often proudly refer to 
themselves as jerks and assholes.)


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Gillam" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- hanumanhoffman9 wrote:
> >
> > In a previous post it was mentioned about a 
> > from Ritam Corp. who fell into a fire.
> > That man was Steven Hauring. One of the 
> > sweetest men ever. This was at the Cedar Creek 
> > Lodge, a number of men who had enjoyed the Sterling 
> > Men's weekend were participating in a sweat lodge. 
> > The peer pressure to not quit was intense.
> 
> I was thinking of participating in a sweat lodge put on by 
> a Wampanoag Indian acquaintance who holds them in 
> prisons and in Europe as a calling. But when a friend told 
> me participants stay in the lodge for an hour, I remembered 
> Steven and said no thanks.
> 
> Dr. Bieler (of Bieler's Broth fame) said it only takes five minutes 
> of profuse sweating to flush whatever toxins can be flushed 
> in that manner. Any more sweating merely contributes to 
> dehydration. And what does one breathe after 20 minutes 
> in a sweat lodge? Surely the oxygen is gone.
> 
> Steven's widow told an interesting story I still recall hearing
> second hand. Steven apparently had an affinity for owls. I 
> guess you'd say they were his totem animal. Upon leaving 
> the hospital, his wife encountered an owl standing by the 
> walkway. This was in broad daylight on the campus of the 
> busy University of Iowa Hospitals and Clinics. Yet the owl 
> just stood there, impassively, looking at her, like an omen. 
> Like a goodbye.
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths Man in the fire

[Patrick Gillam]

--- hanumanhoffman9 wrote:
>
> In a previous post it was mentioned about a 
> from Ritam Corp. who fell into a fire.
> That man was Steven Hauring. One of the 
> sweetest men ever. This was at the Cedar Creek 
> Lodge, a number of men who had enjoyed the Sterling 
> Men's weekend were participating in a sweat lodge. 
> The peer pressure to not quit was intense.

I was thinking of participating in a sweat lodge put on by 
a Wampanoag Indian acquaintance who holds them in 
prisons and in Europe as a calling. But when a friend told 
me participants stay in the lodge for an hour, I remembered 
Steven and said no thanks.

Dr. Bieler (of Bieler's Broth fame) said it only takes five minutes 
of profuse sweating to flush whatever toxins can be flushed 
in that manner. Any more sweating merely contributes to 
dehydration. And what does one breathe after 20 minutes 
in a sweat lodge? Surely the oxygen is gone.

Steven's widow told an interesting story I still recall hearing
second hand. Steven apparently had an affinity for owls. I 
guess you'd say they were his totem animal. Upon leaving 
the hospital, his wife encountered an owl standing by the 
walkway. This was in broad daylight on the campus of the 
busy University of Iowa Hospitals and Clinics. Yet the owl 
just stood there, impassively, looking at her, like an omen. 
Like a goodbye.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths Man in the fire

[hanumanhoffman9]

In a previous post it was mentioned about a from Ritam Corp. who fell into a 
fire.
That man was Steven Hauring. One of the sweetest men ever.
This was at the Cedar Creek Lodge, a number of men who had enjoyed the Sterling 
Men's 
weekend were participating in a sweat lodge. The peer pressure to not quit was 
intense.







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[Peter]

--- markmeredith2002 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  
> > Thanks for the info Ken. Always like Sam. He had a
> > good heart. On my TTC he got up and told a funny
> > story-although that was not his intent-about
> > transcending for about 4 hours one day. 
> 
> Though morbid obesity was the underlying reason for
> his death, the
> acute problem was some sort of strange blood
> poisoning that he
> apparently did treat properly.  One of those
> sensationist celebrity TV
> shows actually reported on it, implying some kind of
> possible family
> feud within the Tabasco empire.  Sam singlehandledly
> balanced out any
> moodmaking within our vedic atom.  He would
> alternate between 40 day
> juice fasts with coffee enemas, in which he would
> lose lots of weight,
> and then overeat for a few months.  I think his
> system just got out of
> whack eventually.

His brother, Paul, who's now the president of Tobasco
Company looks just like Sam. Probably a fat gene runs
in the family tree. You need some help to get up to
650lbs!


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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[markmeredith2002]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 
> Thanks for the info Ken. Always like Sam. He had a
> good heart. On my TTC he got up and told a funny
> story-although that was not his intent-about
> transcending for about 4 hours one day. 

Though morbid obesity was the underlying reason for his death, the
acute problem was some sort of strange blood poisoning that he
apparently did treat properly.  One of those sensationist celebrity TV
shows actually reported on it, implying some kind of possible family
feud within the Tabasco empire.  Sam singlehandledly balanced out any
moodmaking within our vedic atom.  He would alternate between 40 day
juice fasts with coffee enemas, in which he would lose lots of weight,
and then overeat for a few months.  I think his system just got out of
whack eventually.








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[bbrigante]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sallysunshine01"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > >
> > > A few more come to mind
> > > 
> > > Andy Kaufman -- mouth cancer ?
> 
> Andy died of lung cancer and he was a non-smoker.

***

But not a non-inhaler, as he spent a lot of time doing standup in 
smoky nightclubs, as did singer Dana Reeve (Superman's wife), who 
recently was diagnosed with lung cancer altho she never smoked.
 




> > Steve Shimmer -- ? was recently posted
> 
> Steve was being treated for Hodgkins Lymphoma which, apparently was
> under control. He died of the side effects of one of the meds he 
was
> taking which had listed, "sudden heart failure" as a possible side 
effect.
> > 
> > Sam Mcilhenny, who was somewhere in his late forties
> 
> Dear friend Sam died of morbid obesity. He weighed 650 pounds.
>






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[Peter]

--- anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > > > Sam Mcilhenny, who was somewhere in his late
> > > forties
> > > 
> > > Dear friend Sam died of morbid obesity. He
> weighed
> > > 650 pounds.
> > 
> > Sam was up to 650lbs? Yikes! I was thinking of Sam
> > yesterday when I put some tabasco sauce on my home
> > fries. Same was on my TTC. What year did he pass
> away?
> > 
>  Hi Peter this is me Anonymous Ken Hassman. The last
> time I actually
> saw/hung out with Sam was in 1991-1992. He and Jim
> Meredith (remember
> Jim)were sharing a house over in Oakland. Sam had
> already ballooned up
> to no less than 350 pounds probably more, or so,
> needed a cane to help
> him stay up and balanced, and moved really slowly. I
> had occasion,
> once when over at Jim and Sam's house visiting to
> see Sam in minimal
> cloting and it was absolutely shocking how big he
> was and how hard it
> was for him to get himself upright from bed.
> Probably a few years
> later, I ran into Michael Thune (remember him)in
> Albany (just north of
> Berkeley). Michael was close with Sam and he was the
> one who told me
> Sam had died and weighed 650 pounds when they found
> him dead in his
> bed. Sam had moved back to Louisianna (I think)
> where his family was
> as he had inherited some big house when his dad died
> (I may be getting
> my facts mixed up a bit, but I'm close).
> Ken

Thanks for the info Ken. Always like Sam. He had a
good heart. On my TTC he got up and told a funny
story-although that was not his intent-about
transcending for about 4 hours one day. 

> 
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> 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Dawn was a student with me at MIU in the mid 70's. She
> died very early on while in her late 20's. Like 26 or
> 27. Everybody was shocked...we wern't supposed to die
> of such ignorant things like cancer!. What a bunch of
> dopes we were.

Actually, the latest research shows that long-term elderly TMers die of 
cancer about 40% less often than their non-meditating controls. That's 
an even better statistic than the cardiac-related deaths, though its 
conceivable that society has gotten better at saving people with 
moderately severe heart attacks but not-so with elderly with cancer, 
which is pretty much an inevitable side-effect of growing old.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[anonymousff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > > Sam Mcilhenny, who was somewhere in his late
> > forties
> > 
> > Dear friend Sam died of morbid obesity. He weighed
> > 650 pounds.
> 
> Sam was up to 650lbs? Yikes! I was thinking of Sam
> yesterday when I put some tabasco sauce on my home
> fries. Same was on my TTC. What year did he pass away?
> 
 Hi Peter this is me Anonymous Ken Hassman. The last time I actually
saw/hung out with Sam was in 1991-1992. He and Jim Meredith (remember
Jim)were sharing a house over in Oakland. Sam had already ballooned up
to no less than 350 pounds probably more, or so, needed a cane to help
him stay up and balanced, and moved really slowly. I had occasion,
once when over at Jim and Sam's house visiting to see Sam in minimal
cloting and it was absolutely shocking how big he was and how hard it
was for him to get himself upright from bed. Probably a few years
later, I ran into Michael Thune (remember him)in Albany (just north of
Berkeley). Michael was close with Sam and he was the one who told me
Sam had died and weighed 650 pounds when they found him dead in his
bed. Sam had moved back to Louisianna (I think) where his family was
as he had inherited some big house when his dad died (I may be getting
my facts mixed up a bit, but I'm close).
Ken





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[lurkernomore20002000]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "lurkernomore20002000" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> 
> Dear friend Sam died of morbid obesity. He weighed 650 pounds.
> 
> I know the concept of "spreading the wealth" among the world's 
> population will never fly.  But I've often thought that some 
movement 
> to "share the pounds" could somehow catch on.  I mean, shave off 
about 
> 400 of Sam's pounds and give them to about 10-20 kids around the 
> globe, and it could make a difference on a large scale.
> 
> lurk

Hell, I've got about 30 I could donate.

lurk
> >
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[lurkernomore20002000]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:

Dear friend Sam died of morbid obesity. He weighed 650 pounds.

I know the concept of "spreading the wealth" among the world's 
population will never fly.  But I've often thought that some movement 
to "share the pounds" could somehow catch on.  I mean, shave off about 
400 of Sam's pounds and give them to about 10-20 kids around the 
globe, and it could make a difference on a large scale.

lurk
>






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[Peter]

--- anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
> "sallysunshine01"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > A few more come to mind
> > > 
> > > Andy Kaufman -- mouth cancer ?
> 
> Andy died of lung cancer and he was a non-smoker.
> 
> > Steve Shimmer -- ? was recently posted
> 
> Steve was being treated for Hodgkins Lymphoma which,
> apparently was
> under control. He died of the side effects of one of
> the meds he was
> taking which had listed, "sudden heart failure" as a
> possible side effect.
> > 
> > Sam Mcilhenny, who was somewhere in his late
> forties
> 
> Dear friend Sam died of morbid obesity. He weighed
> 650 pounds.

Sam was up to 650lbs? Yikes! I was thinking of Sam
yesterday when I put some tabasco sauce on my home
fries. Same was on my TTC. What year did he pass away?



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[Rick Archer]

Diana (Munson) Schultz, Billy Shultz's wife was recently diagnosed with
inoperable liver cancer. Untreatable according to her Western doctors. Dean
Draznin here in Fairfield ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) is coordinating the
collection of donations to help fund her pursuit of alternative treatments.
Billy and Diana are currently living in Hawaii.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[anonymousff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sallysunshine01"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > A few more come to mind
> > 
> > Andy Kaufman -- mouth cancer ?

Andy died of lung cancer and he was a non-smoker.

> Steve Shimmer -- ? was recently posted

Steve was being treated for Hodgkins Lymphoma which, apparently was
under control. He died of the side effects of one of the meds he was
taking which had listed, "sudden heart failure" as a possible side effect.
> 
> Sam Mcilhenny, who was somewhere in his late forties

Dear friend Sam died of morbid obesity. He weighed 650 pounds.







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[Peter]

Dawn was a student with me at MIU in the mid 70's. She
died very early on while in her late 20's. Like 26 or
27. Everybody was shocked...we wern't supposed to die
of such ignorant things like cancer!. What a bunch of
dopes we were.

--- sallysunshine01 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Also, not to beat a tired  horse ( I know this topic
> has sort of died out, no pun intended) 
> but does anyone remember a lady named Dawn Golden? 
> I think she died of cancer and 
> was only in her late 20s or  early 30s.  This was
> quite a while ago, sometime in the  80s.
> 
> Also, someone named Randy, in his 40s I think, who
> was killed while doing constrcution 
> on the MUM campus.
> 
> Sal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[sallysunshine01]

Also, not to beat a tired  horse ( I know this topic has sort of died out, no 
pun intended) 
but does anyone remember a lady named Dawn Golden?  I think she died of cancer 
and 
was only in her late 20s or  early 30s.  This was quite a while ago, sometime 
in the  80s.

Also, someone named Randy, in his 40s I think, who was killed while doing 
constrcution 
on the MUM campus.

Sal





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[sallysunshine01]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> A few more come to mind
> 
> Andy Kaufman -- mouth cancer ?
> Karen Blassdale -- brain tumor
> Jane Prouty -- asfixiation (co heater)
> Steve Shimmer -- ? was recently posted
> Kent Ketterhoffen (sp) was posted a bit back

Ken Ketterhagen
> 
> I remember a story of someone dying outside domes of heart attack, the
> day after he saw top vaida guy

Sounds like John Thill.  Also Ed Goldfinger, who about two hours before his 
heart attack 
attended a lecture at the Raj presided over by Chris Clark, whose first 
pronouncment was, 
"My, this looks like a healthy group."
> 
> Seems like there are more that I have heard of but escape me at the
> moment.

Sam Mcilhenny, who was somewhere in his late forties

Sal






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[mcjrich]

one more to add to your list of gone to the light mother divine: 
Dr. Ana Alvarez, Raja Jose Luis's sister. 
They are very much missed by their friends and family.
They all are beautiful souls.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "andrasayer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> Nat is very much alive.
> 
> Some to add to the untimely list:
> Denise Robatai
> Julia Fritz
> Sharon Welsh
> Tobi Finebloom
> Sabine (German lady)
> all were on Mother Divine.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths...aversions to allopathic medicine

[mainstream20016]

>>--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "peterklutz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> > It's perceived as untimely because these people cast of their mortal
> > coils way ahead of the statistically established life expectancy for
> > the society they live in
> > 
> > This perception is reinforced by the assumption that leading the life
> > of a meditator promotes longevity
> > 
> >
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> TM, by itself, almost certainly "promotes longevity." However, the 
> lifestyle of many TMers appears to be couter-productive, both for 
> physical health, and for enlightenment.


  In general, the TMer and New Ager lifestyles produce healthy choices, 
long life and 
enlightenment.A different facet of the TMer and New Ager lifestyles, 
however, warrants 
re-evaluation  Specifically, the strident aversions to allopathic medicine 
and 
interventional surgery, respectively, handicap the healing of, and recovery 
from, serious 
illnesses of many of our dear friends.
   Non - TMers and New Agers, some despite really bad counter-productive 
living habits 
and distasteful tendencies, survive serious illnesses in the 21st century that 
overwhelm so 
many of our friends.
   Our, and our friends' early, pioneering perspective that promoted the 
concept that 
consciousness is primary in healing has been broadly adopted, and is 
increasingly 
embraced in the allopathic medical community.  How arrogant we have become, to 
our 
own demise, by our strident aversions...   






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "brahmachari108" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gullible fool <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> >
> >  
> > > I know and have read about several people who
> > > suffered traumatic accidents
> > > that appear to have kicked them into a more
> > > enlightened state.
> > 
> > Some people believe walk-ins exchange places at those
> > times and that's the reason why the individual feels
> > so "different". 
> 
> Sounded differently, acted differently...after near death in London 
didn't MMY?
>

And we explain this by "walk-ins" rather than by saying "the guy 
almost died, had a good fright, and took a long time to completely 
recover?"





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths...

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "uns_tressor" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "peterklutz" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > It's perceived as untimely because these people cast of their 
mortal
> > > coils way ahead of the statistically established life 
expectancy for
> > > the society they live in
> > > 
> > > This perception is reinforced by the assumption that leading 
the life
> > > of a meditator promotes longevity
> > > 
> > >
> > 
> > TM, by itself, almost certainly "promotes longevity." However, 
the 
> > lifestyle of many TMers appears to be counter-productive, both 
for 
> > physical health, and for enlightenment.
> 
> Yes, and the other thing to remember is that a lot
> of people come to TM because of a medical crisis, 
> often at the behest of their medical practitioner.
> i.e. TM attracts people at death's door.
> Uns.
>

Or at least with long-term health issues from high blood pressure or 
cancer to a family history of the same.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[brahmachari108]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gullible fool <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  
> > I know and have read about several people who
> > suffered traumatic accidents
> > that appear to have kicked them into a more
> > enlightened state.
> 
> Some people believe walk-ins exchange places at those
> times and that's the reason why the individual feels
> so "different". 

Sounded differently, acted differently...after near death in London didn't MMY?





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths...

[uns_tressor]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "peterklutz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > It's perceived as untimely because these people cast of their mortal
> > coils way ahead of the statistically established life expectancy for
> > the society they live in
> > 
> > This perception is reinforced by the assumption that leading the life
> > of a meditator promotes longevity
> > 
> >
> 
> TM, by itself, almost certainly "promotes longevity." However, the 
> lifestyle of many TMers appears to be counter-productive, both for 
> physical health, and for enlightenment.

Yes, and the other thing to remember is that a lot
of people come to TM because of a medical crisis, 
often at the behest of their medical practitioner.
i.e. TM attracts people at death's door.
Uns.






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[Peter]

--- sparaig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gullible fool
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> >  
> > > I know and have read about several people who
> > > suffered traumatic accidents
> > > that appear to have kicked them into a more
> > > enlightened state.
> > 
> > Some people believe walk-ins exchange places at
> those
> > times and that's the reason why the individual
> feels
> > so "different". 
> 
> You say "walk-in"; I say "PTSD."

And Ramana says, "Who feels different?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gullible fool <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
>  
> > I know and have read about several people who
> > suffered traumatic accidents
> > that appear to have kicked them into a more
> > enlightened state.
> 
> Some people believe walk-ins exchange places at those
> times and that's the reason why the individual feels
> so "different". 

You say "walk-in"; I say "PTSD."







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> on 10/13/05 11:58 AM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> >> 
> >> on 10/12/05 10:56 AM, Patrick Gillam at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >> 
> >>> That's why Sandy had her friend drive when they ventured
> >>> out on highway 34 on a winter day to check her horse,
> >>> which she stabled near Ottumwa.
> >> 
> >> Her friend Susan, who was driving, was in an coma for a few days
> > after the
> >> accident. Still has pins in her leg. She was in a CC-like state 
of
> >> detachment (unrelated to the accident) for many years. Hated it. 
Came
> > to one
> >> of our Wednesday night satsangs and cried. Popped out of the 
duality
> > state
> >> as she was leaving, and has been in Unity since. Very happy lady 
now.
> >> 
> > 
> > Dissociation due to trauma is probably not CC. The brainwaves of
> > someone in dissociation due to sexual abuse show a lopsided, 
right-
> > brain-enhanced pattern, while someone reporting witnessing due to 
TM
> > show a balanced EEG between right and left sides.
> > 
> > Interestingly enough, some Tibetan Buddhist techniques that some 
here
> > tout as promoting enlightenment ALSO result in this lop-sided EEG
> > pattern.
> 
> I know and have read about several people who suffered traumatic 
accidents
> that appear to have kicked them into a more enlightened state. In 
S. America
> they have "lightening shamans" - people who became psychic or 
healers after
> being struck by lightening. Read Dannion Brinkley: 
http://tinyurl.com/7bquk
>

"More enlightened states?"






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[gullible fool]

 
> I know and have read about several people who
> suffered traumatic accidents
> that appear to have kicked them into a more
> enlightened state.

Some people believe walk-ins exchange places at those
times and that's the reason why the individual feels
so "different". 

--- Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> on 10/13/05 11:58 AM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> 
> >> on 10/12/05 10:56 AM, Patrick Gillam at
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >> 
> >>> That's why Sandy had her friend drive when they
> ventured
> >>> out on highway 34 on a winter day to check her
> horse,
> >>> which she stabled near Ottumwa.
> >> 
> >> Her friend Susan, who was driving, was in an coma
> for a few days
> > after the
> >> accident. Still has pins in her leg. She was in a
> CC-like state of
> >> detachment (unrelated to the accident) for many
> years. Hated it. Came
> > to one
> >> of our Wednesday night satsangs and cried. Popped
> out of the duality
> > state
> >> as she was leaving, and has been in Unity since.
> Very happy lady now.
> >> 
> > 
> > Dissociation due to trauma is probably not CC. The
> brainwaves of
> > someone in dissociation due to sexual abuse show a
> lopsided, right-
> > brain-enhanced pattern, while someone reporting
> witnessing due to TM
> > show a balanced EEG between right and left sides.
> > 
> > Interestingly enough, some Tibetan Buddhist
> techniques that some here
> > tout as promoting enlightenment ALSO result in
> this lop-sided EEG
> > pattern.
> 
> I know and have read about several people who
> suffered traumatic accidents
> that appear to have kicked them into a more
> enlightened state. In S. America
> they have "lightening shamans" - people who became
> psychic or healers after
> being struck by lightening. Read Dannion Brinkley:
> http://tinyurl.com/7bquk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths...

[peterklutz]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "peterklutz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > It's perceived as untimely because these people cast of their mortal
> > coils way ahead of the statistically established life expectancy for
> > the society they live in
> > 
> > This perception is reinforced by the assumption that leading the life
> > of a meditator promotes longevity
> > 
> >
> 
> TM, by itself, almost certainly "promotes longevity." However, the 
> lifestyle of many TMers appears to be couter-productive, both for 
> physical health, and for enlightenment.
>

Allow me a different take in this. The TM-programme promotes
accelerated progress. 

Occassionally, this progress gives practitioners a cosmic licence to
drive in the pool-lane when going to the factory where you swap you
old model of your body for a new one!






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[Rick Archer]

on 10/13/05 11:58 AM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 
>> on 10/12/05 10:56 AM, Patrick Gillam at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> 
>>> That's why Sandy had her friend drive when they ventured
>>> out on highway 34 on a winter day to check her horse,
>>> which she stabled near Ottumwa.
>> 
>> Her friend Susan, who was driving, was in an coma for a few days
> after the
>> accident. Still has pins in her leg. She was in a CC-like state of
>> detachment (unrelated to the accident) for many years. Hated it. Came
> to one
>> of our Wednesday night satsangs and cried. Popped out of the duality
> state
>> as she was leaving, and has been in Unity since. Very happy lady now.
>> 
> 
> Dissociation due to trauma is probably not CC. The brainwaves of
> someone in dissociation due to sexual abuse show a lopsided, right-
> brain-enhanced pattern, while someone reporting witnessing due to TM
> show a balanced EEG between right and left sides.
> 
> Interestingly enough, some Tibetan Buddhist techniques that some here
> tout as promoting enlightenment ALSO result in this lop-sided EEG
> pattern.

I know and have read about several people who suffered traumatic accidents
that appear to have kicked them into a more enlightened state. In S. America
they have "lightening shamans" - people who became psychic or healers after
being struck by lightening. Read Dannion Brinkley: http://tinyurl.com/7bquk





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Someone sent me the following note. Anyone care to expand upon it?
> > 
> > I was struck a number of years by the legion of meditators, 
sidhas,
> > initiators, governors, ministers, Purushas, Mother Divines, 
rajahs 
> and
> > other Movement potentates who had suffered untimely deaths. You
> > mentioned several. After all, the number of hardcore meditators is
> > really quite small, just a few thousands, I would think. I have 
> worked
> > for several organizations larger than that and cannot recall 
> anywhere
> > near a comparable percentage of people in their 40s or 50 
croaking. 
> That
> > clearly is a very subjective estimation. I would like to see 
> reliable
> > statistics on the matter--you think Dr. Robert Keith Wallace 
would 
> be
> > interested in such a research topic??!!
> > 
> > What if we began our own accounting of such deaths? My start is 
the
> > attached table. If you think it makes sense you might solicit 
names 
> on FFL.
> > 
> >   Name   Cause of Death   Approx. Age*
> >   Dawn Casper   breast cancer   50
> >   Kristi Kamins   breast cancer   52
> >   Bobby Warren   drowning   45
> >   Geo. Gleeson   heart attack   45
> >   Margaret Cooper   MS   60
> >   David Weiner   testicular cancer   44
> >   Maxine Trzebiatowski   breast cancer   45
> >   Kurleigh King   Prostate cancer
> >   Doug Henning   Liver Cancer   52
> >   Skip Alexander   Liver Cancer
> >   Jane Hopson   ALS (Lou Gerhirg's disease)   62
> >
> 
> That guy who was one of the top guys at Ritam Corp. Died during a 
> sweat lodge.
> 
> The sister of the former Mrs. Hagelin. Brain cancer. Her son died 
of 
> brain cancer at age 13.
>

The variety of brain cancer that kids get is generally expected to 
kill someone before adulthood. Someone surviving long enough to have 
kids is unusual.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths...

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "peterklutz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> 
> It's perceived as untimely because these people cast of their mortal
> coils way ahead of the statistically established life expectancy for
> the society they live in
> 
> This perception is reinforced by the assumption that leading the life
> of a meditator promotes longevity
> 
>

TM, by itself, almost certainly "promotes longevity." However, the 
lifestyle of many TMers appears to be couter-productive, both for 
physical health, and for enlightenment.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> on 10/12/05 10:56 AM, Patrick Gillam at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > That's why Sandy had her friend drive when they ventured
> > out on highway 34 on a winter day to check her horse,
> > which she stabled near Ottumwa.
> 
> Her friend Susan, who was driving, was in an coma for a few days 
after the
> accident. Still has pins in her leg. She was in a CC-like state of
> detachment (unrelated to the accident) for many years. Hated it. Came 
to one
> of our Wednesday night satsangs and cried. Popped out of the duality 
state
> as she was leaving, and has been in Unity since. Very happy lady now.
>

Dissociation due to trauma is probably not CC. The brainwaves of 
someone in dissociation due to sexual abuse show a lopsided, right-
brain-enhanced pattern, while someone reporting witnessing due to TM 
show a balanced EEG between right and left sides.

Interestingly enough, some Tibetan Buddhist techniques that some here 
tout as promoting enlightenment ALSO result in this lop-sided EEG 
pattern.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[anonymousff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Someone sent me the following note. Anyone care to expand upon it?
> 
> I was struck a number of years by the legion of meditators, sidhas,
> initiators, governors, ministers, Purushas, Mother Divines, rajahs 
and
> other Movement potentates who had suffered untimely deaths. You
> mentioned several. After all, the number of hardcore meditators is
> really quite small, just a few thousands, I would think. I have 
worked
> for several organizations larger than that and cannot recall 
anywhere
> near a comparable percentage of people in their 40s or 50 croaking. 
That
> clearly is a very subjective estimation. I would like to see 
reliable
> statistics on the matter--you think Dr. Robert Keith Wallace would 
be
> interested in such a research topic??!!
> 
> What if we began our own accounting of such deaths? My start is the
> attached table. If you think it makes sense you might solicit names 
on FFL.
> 
>   Name   Cause of Death   Approx. Age*
>   Dawn Casper   breast cancer   50
>   Kristi Kamins   breast cancer   52
>   Bobby Warren   drowning   45
>   Geo. Gleeson   heart attack   45
>   Margaret Cooper   MS   60
>   David Weiner   testicular cancer   44
>   Maxine Trzebiatowski   breast cancer   45
>   Kurleigh King   Prostate cancer
>   Doug Henning   Liver Cancer   52
>   Skip Alexander   Liver Cancer
>   Jane Hopson   ALS (Lou Gerhirg's disease)   62
>

That guy who was one of the top guys at Ritam Corp. Died during a 
sweat lodge.

The sister of the former Mrs. Hagelin. Brain cancer. Her son died of 
brain cancer at age 13.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- andrasayer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Nat is very much alive.
> > 
> > Some to add to the untimely list:
> > Denise Robatai
> > Julia Fritz
> > Sharon Welsh
> > Tobi Finebloom
> > Sabine (German lady)
> > all were on Mother Divine.
> > 
> > Skip Alexander
> > Debbie Kockel
> > the Purusha guy in the fire
> 
> Sten, Rick's friend
> 

Curly King.
George Harrison.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths...

[peterklutz]

It's perceived as untimely because these people cast of their mortal
coils way ahead of the statistically established life expectancy for
the society they live in

This perception is reinforced by the assumption that leading the life
of a meditator promotes longevity


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "brahmachari108"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "bmorry2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> 
> > LOTS OF Premature deaths by my calculations and of longtime dedicated 
> > TMO participants
> 
> This notion of premature and untimely death in a group so filled
with the "enlightened."
> 
> When someone's time is up is the only time death comes, so how is
that untimely?
> 
> karma
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths...

[brahmachari108]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "bmorry2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> LOTS OF Premature deaths by my calculations and of longtime dedicated 
> TMO participants

This notion of premature and untimely death in a group so filled with the 
"enlightened."

When someone's time is up is the only time death comes, so how is that untimely?

karma






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[gullible fool]

 
> I actually died a few years ago, but I still enjoy
> checking in with 
> FFL now and again.

Does that mean we have only 999 members?

--- scienceofabundance <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> I actually died a few years ago, but I still enjoy
> checking in with 
> FFL now and again.  Being dead is often boring but
> if you like to 
> surf the Web it can be pretty cool, because the
> connections are very 
> fast and we have very good anti-virus software. We
> are told here 
> that unconsciously wanting to have faster Web
> connections is the 
> principal reason for untimely deaths in the TMO. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Someone sent me the following note. Anyone care
> to expand upon 
> it?
> > > 
> > > I was struck a number of years by the legion of
> meditators, 
> sidhas,
> > > initiators, governors, ministers, Purushas,
> Mother Divines, 
> rajahs and
> > > other Movement potentates who had suffered
> untimely deaths. You
> > > mentioned several. After all, the number of
> hardcore meditators 
> is
> > > really quite small, just a few thousands, I
> would think. I have 
> worked
> > > for several organizations larger than that and
> cannot recall 
> anywhere
> > > near a comparable percentage of people in their
> 40s or 50 
> croaking. That
> > > clearly is a very subjective estimation. I would
> like to see 
> reliable
> > > statistics on the matter--you think Dr. Robert
> Keith Wallace 
> would be
> > > interested in such a research topic??!!
> > > 
> > > What if we began our own accounting of such
> deaths? My start is 
> the
> > > attached table. If you think it makes sense you
> might solicit 
> names
> > on FFL.
> > > 
> > >   Name   Cause of Death   Approx. Age*
> > >   Dawn Casper   breast cancer   50
> > >   Kristi Kamins   breast cancer   52
> > >   Bobby Warren   drowning   45
> > >   Geo. Gleeson   heart attack   45
> > >   Margaret Cooper   MS   60
> > >   David Weiner   testicular cancer   44
> > >   Maxine Trzebiatowski   breast cancer   45
> > >   Kurleigh King   Prostate cancer
> > >   Doug Henning   Liver Cancer   52
> > >   Skip Alexander   Liver Cancer
> > >   Jane Hopson   ALS (Lou Gerhirg's disease)   62
> > 
> > 
> > A few more come to mind
> > 
> > Andy Kaufman -- mouth cancer ?
> > Karen Blassdale -- brain tumor
> > Jane Prouty -- asfixiation (co heater)
> > Steve Shimmer -- ? was recently posted
> > Kent Ketterhoffen (sp) was posted a bit back
> > 
> > swiss girl just mentioned a few weeks ago
> > 
> > cc girl at MIU?
> > 
> > the marine, who wrote book, OD on herioin
> > 
> > Jack K? SF bay area, also heroin 
> > 
> > I remember a story of someone dying outside domes
> of heart attack, 
> the
> > day after he saw top vaida guy
> > 
> > A while back a friend rattled off 3-4 people who
> died of AIDS, some
> > KSCI guys, and a guy married to Heidi?  
> > 
> > Seems like there are more that I have heard of but
> escape me at the
> > moment.
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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>
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> 
> 
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> 
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> and click 'Join This Group!' 
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> 
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[bmorry2000]

Margaret Norman--around 1992?  age probably early 40s  cause of death 
anorexia complications

Katherin Greco--around 2003? age early 50s; cause of death cancer

Janice Langstaff--around 2002? age early 50s; cause of death cancer

Carol Dixon--around 1990? age early 40s; cause of death cancer

LOTS OF Premature deaths by my calculations and of longtime dedicated 
TMO participants


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "andrasayer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> Nat is very much alive.
> 
> Some to add to the untimely list:
> Denise Robatai
> Julia Fritz
> Sharon Welsh
> Tobi Finebloom
> Sabine (German lady)
> all were on Mother Divine.
> 
> Skip Alexander
> Debbie Kockel
> the Purusha guy in the fire
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > on 10/12/05 12:39 AM, gullible fool at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > 
> > >  
> > >>>   Margaret Cooper   MS   60
> > > 
> > > Maybe I'm thinking of a different Margaret Norman, but
> > > the one I know, part of the Cambridge center for a
> > > while and a resident of my town before moving to ff
> > > with husband Norman, was a lot younger than 60. I
> > > thought she was 37 or so at the time.
> > 
> > Different person.
> > >   
> > > There's also the audiovisual guy who was hit by
> > > lightning while hiking up a mountain in Colorado.
> > > 
> > > Also, Goldfaber.
> > 
> > Nat is still alive, isn't he?
> >
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[scienceofabundance]

I actually died a few years ago, but I still enjoy checking in with 
FFL now and again.  Being dead is often boring but if you like to 
surf the Web it can be pretty cool, because the connections are very 
fast and we have very good anti-virus software. We are told here 
that unconsciously wanting to have faster Web connections is the 
principal reason for untimely deaths in the TMO. 





--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> >
> > Someone sent me the following note. Anyone care to expand upon 
it?
> > 
> > I was struck a number of years by the legion of meditators, 
sidhas,
> > initiators, governors, ministers, Purushas, Mother Divines, 
rajahs and
> > other Movement potentates who had suffered untimely deaths. You
> > mentioned several. After all, the number of hardcore meditators 
is
> > really quite small, just a few thousands, I would think. I have 
worked
> > for several organizations larger than that and cannot recall 
anywhere
> > near a comparable percentage of people in their 40s or 50 
croaking. That
> > clearly is a very subjective estimation. I would like to see 
reliable
> > statistics on the matter--you think Dr. Robert Keith Wallace 
would be
> > interested in such a research topic??!!
> > 
> > What if we began our own accounting of such deaths? My start is 
the
> > attached table. If you think it makes sense you might solicit 
names
> on FFL.
> > 
> >   Name   Cause of Death   Approx. Age*
> >   Dawn Casper   breast cancer   50
> >   Kristi Kamins   breast cancer   52
> >   Bobby Warren   drowning   45
> >   Geo. Gleeson   heart attack   45
> >   Margaret Cooper   MS   60
> >   David Weiner   testicular cancer   44
> >   Maxine Trzebiatowski   breast cancer   45
> >   Kurleigh King   Prostate cancer
> >   Doug Henning   Liver Cancer   52
> >   Skip Alexander   Liver Cancer
> >   Jane Hopson   ALS (Lou Gerhirg's disease)   62
> 
> 
> A few more come to mind
> 
> Andy Kaufman -- mouth cancer ?
> Karen Blassdale -- brain tumor
> Jane Prouty -- asfixiation (co heater)
> Steve Shimmer -- ? was recently posted
> Kent Ketterhoffen (sp) was posted a bit back
> 
> swiss girl just mentioned a few weeks ago
> 
> cc girl at MIU?
> 
> the marine, who wrote book, OD on herioin
> 
> Jack K? SF bay area, also heroin 
> 
> I remember a story of someone dying outside domes of heart attack, 
the
> day after he saw top vaida guy
> 
> A while back a friend rattled off 3-4 people who died of AIDS, some
> KSCI guys, and a guy married to Heidi?  
> 
> Seems like there are more that I have heard of but escape me at the
> moment.
>






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[Peter]

--- andrasayer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Nat is very much alive.
> 
> Some to add to the untimely list:
> Denise Robatai
> Julia Fritz
> Sharon Welsh
> Tobi Finebloom
> Sabine (German lady)
> all were on Mother Divine.
> 
> Skip Alexander
> Debbie Kockel
> the Purusha guy in the fire

Sten, Rick's friend


> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > on 10/12/05 12:39 AM, gullible fool at
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > 
> > >  
> > >>>   Margaret Cooper   MS   60
> > > 
> > > Maybe I'm thinking of a different Margaret
> Norman, but
> > > the one I know, part of the Cambridge center for
> a
> > > while and a resident of my town before moving to
> ff
> > > with husband Norman, was a lot younger than 60.
> I
> > > thought she was 37 or so at the time.
> > 
> > Different person.
> > >   
> > > There's also the audiovisual guy who was hit by
> > > lightning while hiking up a mountain in
> Colorado.
> > > 
> > > Also, Goldfaber.
> > 
> > Nat is still alive, isn't he?
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[andrasayer]

Nat is very much alive.

Some to add to the untimely list:
Denise Robatai
Julia Fritz
Sharon Welsh
Tobi Finebloom
Sabine (German lady)
all were on Mother Divine.

Skip Alexander
Debbie Kockel
the Purusha guy in the fire




--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> on 10/12/05 12:39 AM, gullible fool at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> >  
> >>>   Margaret Cooper   MS   60
> > 
> > Maybe I'm thinking of a different Margaret Norman, but
> > the one I know, part of the Cambridge center for a
> > while and a resident of my town before moving to ff
> > with husband Norman, was a lot younger than 60. I
> > thought she was 37 or so at the time.
> 
> Different person.
> >   
> > There's also the audiovisual guy who was hit by
> > lightning while hiking up a mountain in Colorado.
> > 
> > Also, Goldfaber.
> 
> Nat is still alive, isn't he?
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Your version is more detailed...I'd go with that. Some
> time ago when I lived in Fairfield Charlie Heath had
> some new jytoish software so he did my chart and saw
> that there was a specific period I was entering that I
> was at risk for an accident in a car. He also said
> that it seemed that no injury would occur. A few weeks
> later on my way to Iowa City, a women turned in front
> of me to go into the then new Wal Mart. I smacked
> right into her at 60MPH totaling her car and my car.
> Neither of us had a scratch. I told Charlie about it
> and he was so excited that he saw it coming. That's
> the only time I've ever been impressed by jyotish.   

The other night I watched the film "Paycheck,"
based upon on a story by the great Philip K.
Dick.  As usual, the film didn't do justice
to the ideas in the original story, but it did
have one part that caught my ear, because it
summed up many of my feelings about Jyotish or
other methods of prognostication.  (I've never
been interested.)

In the film, they develop a machine that sees
into the future.  They see a war coming, so they
start doing things to prevent it, things that are
misinterpreted and cause the war.

The basic premise is that the drawback of "seeing
the future" is that once you've "seen" it and
convinced yourself it's true, you start subcon-
sciously trying to make it come about.

I'd rather just see what happens when it happens...







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[Peter]

--- Patrick Gillam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> --- Peter Sutphen wrote:
> > 
> > --- Patrick Gillam wrote:
> > 
> > > Sandy Kopff was 47 when her car slid into an
> > > oncoming truck between Fairfield and 
> > > Ottumwa. I'm told the accident was one she was
> > > trying to avoid by virtue of having been 
> > > warned by a jyotishi. She had been in a car
> accident
> > > a few weeks earlier. A friend of hers 
> > > was driving during the fatal incident; they lost
> > > control when passing over an icy patch on 
> > > the road.
> > 
> > It was just east of that country western bar. I
> heard
> > that her jyotish, done a few days before, said
> nothing
> > about her being at risk.
> 
> Funny we would hear conflicting stories.

Your version is more detailed...I'd go with that. Some
time ago when I lived in Fairfield Charlie Heath had
some new jytoish software so he did my chart and saw
that there was a specific period I was entering that I
was at risk for an accident in a car. He also said
that it seemed that no injury would occur. A few weeks
later on my way to Iowa City, a women turned in front
of me to go into the then new Wal Mart. I smacked
right into her at 60MPH totaling her car and my car.
Neither of us had a scratch. I told Charlie about it
and he was so excited that he saw it coming. That's
the only time I've ever been impressed by jyotish.   



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[Peter]

--- Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> on 10/12/05 10:56 AM, Patrick Gillam at
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > That's why Sandy had her friend drive when they
> ventured
> > out on highway 34 on a winter day to check her
> horse,
> > which she stabled near Ottumwa.
> 
> Her friend Susan, who was driving, was in an coma
> for a few days after the
> accident. Still has pins in her leg. She was in a
> CC-like state of
> detachment (unrelated to the accident) for many
> years. Hated it. Came to one
> of our Wednesday night satsangs and cried. Popped
> out of the duality state
> as she was leaving, and has been in Unity since.
> Very happy lady now.

Ho Humjust another day at the satsang!



> 
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> 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[Rick Archer]

on 10/12/05 10:56 AM, Patrick Gillam at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> That's why Sandy had her friend drive when they ventured
> out on highway 34 on a winter day to check her horse,
> which she stabled near Ottumwa.

Her friend Susan, who was driving, was in an coma for a few days after the
accident. Still has pins in her leg. She was in a CC-like state of
detachment (unrelated to the accident) for many years. Hated it. Came to one
of our Wednesday night satsangs and cried. Popped out of the duality state
as she was leaving, and has been in Unity since. Very happy lady now.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[Patrick Gillam]

--- Peter Sutphen wrote:
> 
> --- Patrick Gillam wrote:
> 
> > Sandy Kopff was 47 when her car slid into an
> > oncoming truck between Fairfield and 
> > Ottumwa. I'm told the accident was one she was
> > trying to avoid by virtue of having been 
> > warned by a jyotishi. She had been in a car accident
> > a few weeks earlier. A friend of hers 
> > was driving during the fatal incident; they lost
> > control when passing over an icy patch on 
> > the road.
> 
> It was just east of that country western bar. I heard
> that her jyotish, done a few days before, said nothing
> about her being at risk.

Funny we would hear conflicting stories.

The version I heard was, Sandy was in a car accident 
in which she hurt her ankle pretty badly but otherwise 
got out okay. She went to a jyotishi to find out what was 
up. He looked at her chart and got very sober. "That 
accident was to have been fatal," he was to have said. 
That's why Sandy had her friend drive when they ventured 
out on highway 34 on a winter day to check her horse, 
which she stabled near Ottumwa.

On the way back the car hit a patch of ice and spun around 
180 degrees so that Sandy, sitting in the passenger seat, 
got slammed into the side of an oncoming truck.

I'm trying to remember who my source was for all this. 
John Small? Diana Watt? Dunno.

I was living in St. Louis at the time, but I happened to be 
visiting friends in Marshalltown when the news appeared 
in the paper. I picked up the Des Moines Register and 
skimmed the news briefs. The dateline Fairfield caught 
my eye, and I read of my friend Sandy being taken from us.

The suggestion of this thread is that these deaths may 
be statistically significant. But that's a question we are 
utterly unable to answer with these anecdotes. It is 
bittersweet and perhaps apt, however, to remember these 
people as calamities around the world take the lives of tens 
of thousands and make millions homeless.

I used to feel blessed, charmed and invincible. These days 
I feel blessed, charmed and utterly vulnerable.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[Rory Goff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> On Oct 12, 2005, at 12:21 AM, Rick Archer wrote:
> 
> > What if we began our own accounting of such deaths? My start is 
the
> > attached table. If you think it makes sense you might solicit 
names  
> > on FFL.
> 
> 
> I'm part of an international sangha/community of a several 
thousand  
> hardcore yogis and meditators. Our quarterly newspaper lists all 
the  
> births and deaths in the community. There are several a year. My  
> observation would be that a good number of people who are 
hardcore  
> meditators are also hardcore into alternative health practices. 
In  
> some cases they will even forego any allopathic treatment in favor 
of  
> Ayurveda or Tibetan medicine, etc. etc. The majority of these 
people  
> die early because they either do not seek "conventional" 
treatment  
> for diseases (with sometime excellent prognoses) or they delay  
> conventional treatment. An example that comes to mind was a woman 
who  
> worked at the health food supermarket. She had a fibroid the size 
of  
> a large grapefruit. Because she believed she should do everything  
> "all natural" she refused to have this removed--even though that  
> meant she could no longer have sex. Granted, in this case it was  
> benign, but that just highlights in my mind what lengths some will 
go  
> to to maintain a belief system--even when conventional treatment 
is  
> quite capable of helping them or even curing them.

Yes, excellent point -- as if conventional treatment is somehow NOT 
a part of "God" or wholeness -- the old ignoring-the-helicopter-
while-waiting-for-God-to-rescue-us-from-the-roof dodge :-)
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[uns_tressor]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "markmeredith2002" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Someone sent me the following note. Anyone care to expand upon it?
> > 
> > I was struck a number of years by the legion of meditators, sidhas,
> > initiators, governors

A legion is 5,000 men, excluding horses and paraphernalia,
and miscellaneous siege engines. 20 odd out of 6 - 10 million
is a good enough for me. It minds me a comment I made to 
one of bbrigante's recent sillier posts: "There are lies, 
damned lies and statistics". Benjamin Disraeli.
Uns.





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[Rick Archer]

Then there was Nona Hamburg, who in the early 1970's went in to the
meditation room in the New Haven center and mysteriously died while
meditating. She was in her 20's.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[markmeredith2002]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Someone sent me the following note. Anyone care to expand upon it?
> 
> I was struck a number of years by the legion of meditators, sidhas,
> initiators, governors, ministers, Purushas, Mother Divines, rajahs and
> other Movement potentates who had suffered untimely deaths. 
snip

The TMO is largely a boomer mov't and as boomers reach middle age a
certain percentage start to die.  We notice deaths within our own
circle more.  Plus the TMO was wildly promoting Immortality and
Perfect Health at the time the deaths started so it was a big
contradiction in some minds.  I still meet campus folks who are kind
of shocked when one of their own gets seriously ill, "but they were
living in stapathya ved!?".  

I've been told that they found high amounts of DDT in S. Alexander's
body, most likely from time in India.  Any group that spends more than
avg time in a country like India could have more deaths due to cancer,
esp liver and reproductive organs that are esp sensitive to pesticide
toxicity.  The TMO also has higher than avg celebate and childless
couples, which could increase prostate cancer (corelated with
celebacy) and breast cancer (breastfeeding sign. reduces odds for
breast cancer).  Of course TM reduces blood pressure, so maybe less
coronary deaths than avg. which could balance it out.  Longer term I
worry about the health of purushas, mds and campus staff (the poor
ones at least) who haven't been getting regular health care and won't
be taken care of by the tmo when they get old.







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[Peter]

--- Patrick Gillam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Ed Goldfinger was felled by heart failure in the
> mid-90s or so. He was what, 50?

Younger

> 
> Was Ed Tarabilda in his 50s?
> 
> Sandy Kopff was 47 when her car slid into an
> oncoming truck between Fairfield and 
> Ottumwa. I'm told the accident was one she was
> trying to avoid by virtue of having been 
> warned by a jyotishi. She had been in a car accident
> a few weeks earlier. A friend of hers 
> was driving during the fatal incident; they lost
> control when passing over an icy patch on 
> the road.

It was just east of that country western bar. I heard
that her jyotish, done a few days before, said nothing
about her being at risk.

> 
> Let's not forget young Levi Butler, a victim of
> homicide.

Pam Noble, early 30's, brain tumors
George (used to work at ITG) early 40's, heart attack


> 
> For that matter, my mother was a 10-year regular
> meditator who died of homicide at age 
> 57.

Man, that is tough, Patrick!


> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Someone sent me the following note. Anyone care
> to expand upon it?
> > > 
> > > I was struck a number of years by the legion of
> meditators, sidhas,
> > > initiators, governors, ministers, Purushas,
> Mother Divines, rajahs and
> > > other Movement potentates who had suffered
> untimely deaths. You
> > > mentioned several. After all, the number of
> hardcore meditators is
> > > really quite small, just a few thousands, I
> would think. I have worked
> > > for several organizations larger than that and
> cannot recall anywhere
> > > near a comparable percentage of people in their
> 40s or 50 croaking. That
> > > clearly is a very subjective estimation. I would
> like to see reliable
> > > statistics on the matter--you think Dr. Robert
> Keith Wallace would be
> > > interested in such a research topic??!!
> > > 
> > > What if we began our own accounting of such
> deaths? My start is the
> > > attached table. If you think it makes sense you
> might solicit names
> > on FFL.
> > > 
> > >   Name   Cause of Death   Approx. Age*
> > >   Dawn Casper   breast cancer   50
> > >   Kristi Kamins   breast cancer   52
> > >   Bobby Warren   drowning   45
> > >   Geo. Gleeson   heart attack   45
> > >   Margaret Cooper   MS   60
> > >   David Weiner   testicular cancer   44
> > >   Maxine Trzebiatowski   breast cancer   45
> > >   Kurleigh King   Prostate cancer
> > >   Doug Henning   Liver Cancer   52
> > >   Skip Alexander   Liver Cancer
> > >   Jane Hopson   ALS (Lou Gerhirg's disease)   62
> > 
> > 
> > A few more come to mind
> > 
> > Andy Kaufman -- mouth cancer ?
> > Karen Blassdale -- brain tumor
> > Jane Prouty -- asfixiation (co heater)
> > Steve Shimmer -- ? was recently posted
> > Kent Ketterhoffen (sp) was posted a bit back
> > 
> > swiss girl just mentioned a few weeks ago
> > 
> > cc girl at MIU?
> > 
> > the marine, who wrote book, OD on herioin
> > 
> > Jack K? SF bay area, also heroin 
> > 
> > I remember a story of someone dying outside domes
> of heart attack, the
> > day after he saw top vaida guy
> > 
> > A while back a friend rattled off 3-4 people who
> died of AIDS, some
> > KSCI guys, and a guy married to Heidi?  
> > 
> > Seems like there are more that I have heard of but
> escape me at the
> > moment.
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[Patrick Gillam]

Ed Goldfinger was felled by heart failure in the mid-90s or so. He was what, 50?

Was Ed Tarabilda in his 50s?

Sandy Kopff was 47 when her car slid into an oncoming truck between Fairfield 
and 
Ottumwa. I'm told the accident was one she was trying to avoid by virtue of 
having been 
warned by a jyotishi. She had been in a car accident a few weeks earlier. A 
friend of hers 
was driving during the fatal incident; they lost control when passing over an 
icy patch on 
the road.

Let's not forget young Levi Butler, a victim of homicide.

For that matter, my mother was a 10-year regular meditator who died of homicide 
at age 
57.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Someone sent me the following note. Anyone care to expand upon it?
> > 
> > I was struck a number of years by the legion of meditators, sidhas,
> > initiators, governors, ministers, Purushas, Mother Divines, rajahs and
> > other Movement potentates who had suffered untimely deaths. You
> > mentioned several. After all, the number of hardcore meditators is
> > really quite small, just a few thousands, I would think. I have worked
> > for several organizations larger than that and cannot recall anywhere
> > near a comparable percentage of people in their 40s or 50 croaking. That
> > clearly is a very subjective estimation. I would like to see reliable
> > statistics on the matter--you think Dr. Robert Keith Wallace would be
> > interested in such a research topic??!!
> > 
> > What if we began our own accounting of such deaths? My start is the
> > attached table. If you think it makes sense you might solicit names
> on FFL.
> > 
> >   Name   Cause of Death   Approx. Age*
> >   Dawn Casper   breast cancer   50
> >   Kristi Kamins   breast cancer   52
> >   Bobby Warren   drowning   45
> >   Geo. Gleeson   heart attack   45
> >   Margaret Cooper   MS   60
> >   David Weiner   testicular cancer   44
> >   Maxine Trzebiatowski   breast cancer   45
> >   Kurleigh King   Prostate cancer
> >   Doug Henning   Liver Cancer   52
> >   Skip Alexander   Liver Cancer
> >   Jane Hopson   ALS (Lou Gerhirg's disease)   62
> 
> 
> A few more come to mind
> 
> Andy Kaufman -- mouth cancer ?
> Karen Blassdale -- brain tumor
> Jane Prouty -- asfixiation (co heater)
> Steve Shimmer -- ? was recently posted
> Kent Ketterhoffen (sp) was posted a bit back
> 
> swiss girl just mentioned a few weeks ago
> 
> cc girl at MIU?
> 
> the marine, who wrote book, OD on herioin
> 
> Jack K? SF bay area, also heroin 
> 
> I remember a story of someone dying outside domes of heart attack, the
> day after he saw top vaida guy
> 
> A while back a friend rattled off 3-4 people who died of AIDS, some
> KSCI guys, and a guy married to Heidi?  
> 
> Seems like there are more that I have heard of but escape me at the
> moment.
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[feste37]

This is a big movement. People in it die, just like everyone else. The idea 
that 
there is something mysterious about it is ridiculous, in my opinion. 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Someone sent me the following note. Anyone care to expand upon it?
> > 
> > I was struck a number of years by the legion of meditators, sidhas,
> > initiators, governors, ministers, Purushas, Mother Divines, rajahs and
> > other Movement potentates who had suffered untimely deaths. You
> > mentioned several. After all, the number of hardcore meditators is
> > really quite small, just a few thousands, I would think. I have worked
> > for several organizations larger than that and cannot recall anywhere
> > near a comparable percentage of people in their 40s or 50 croaking. That
> > clearly is a very subjective estimation. I would like to see reliable
> > statistics on the matter--you think Dr. Robert Keith Wallace would be
> > interested in such a research topic??!!
> > 
> > What if we began our own accounting of such deaths? My start is the
> > attached table. If you think it makes sense you might solicit names
> on FFL.
> > 
> >   Name   Cause of Death   Approx. Age*
> >   Dawn Casper   breast cancer   50
> >   Kristi Kamins   breast cancer   52
> >   Bobby Warren   drowning   45
> >   Geo. Gleeson   heart attack   45
> >   Margaret Cooper   MS   60
> >   David Weiner   testicular cancer   44
> >   Maxine Trzebiatowski   breast cancer   45
> >   Kurleigh King   Prostate cancer
> >   Doug Henning   Liver Cancer   52
> >   Skip Alexander   Liver Cancer
> >   Jane Hopson   ALS (Lou Gerhirg's disease)   62
> 
> 
> A few more come to mind
> 
> Andy Kaufman -- mouth cancer ?
> Karen Blassdale -- brain tumor
> Jane Prouty -- asfixiation (co heater)
> Steve Shimmer -- ? was recently posted
> Kent Ketterhoffen (sp) was posted a bit back
> 
> swiss girl just mentioned a few weeks ago
> 
> cc girl at MIU?
> 
> the marine, who wrote book, OD on herioin
> 
> Jack K? SF bay area, also heroin 
> 
> I remember a story of someone dying outside domes of heart attack, the
> day after he saw top vaida guy
> 
> A while back a friend rattled off 3-4 people who died of AIDS, some
> KSCI guys, and a guy married to Heidi?  
> 
> Seems like there are more that I have heard of but escape me at the
> moment.
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gullible fool <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>  
> > >   Margaret Cooper   MS   60
> 
> Maybe I'm thinking of a different Margaret Norman, but
> the one I know, part of the Cambridge center for a
> while and a resident of my town before moving to ff
> with husband Norman, was a lot younger than 60. I
> thought she was 37 or so at the time.
>   
> There's also the audiovisual guy who was hit by
> lightning while hiking up a mountain in Colorado.

Clearly off the program.
 






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

[akasha_108]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Someone sent me the following note. Anyone care to expand upon it?
> 
> I was struck a number of years by the legion of meditators, sidhas,
> initiators, governors, ministers, Purushas, Mother Divines, rajahs and
> other Movement potentates who had suffered untimely deaths. You
> mentioned several. After all, the number of hardcore meditators is
> really quite small, just a few thousands, I would think. I have worked
> for several organizations larger than that and cannot recall anywhere
> near a comparable percentage of people in their 40s or 50 croaking. That
> clearly is a very subjective estimation. I would like to see reliable
> statistics on the matter--you think Dr. Robert Keith Wallace would be
> interested in such a research topic??!!
> 
> What if we began our own accounting of such deaths? My start is the
> attached table. If you think it makes sense you might solicit names
on FFL.
> 
>   Name   Cause of Death   Approx. Age*
>   Dawn Casper   breast cancer   50
>   Kristi Kamins   breast cancer   52
>   Bobby Warren   drowning   45
>   Geo. Gleeson   heart attack   45
>   Margaret Cooper   MS   60
>   David Weiner   testicular cancer   44
>   Maxine Trzebiatowski   breast cancer   45
>   Kurleigh King   Prostate cancer
>   Doug Henning   Liver Cancer   52
>   Skip Alexander   Liver Cancer
>   Jane Hopson   ALS (Lou Gerhirg's disease)   62


A few more come to mind

Andy Kaufman -- mouth cancer ?
Karen Blassdale -- brain tumor
Jane Prouty -- asfixiation (co heater)
Steve Shimmer -- ? was recently posted
Kent Ketterhoffen (sp) was posted a bit back

swiss girl just mentioned a few weeks ago

cc girl at MIU?

the marine, who wrote book, OD on herioin

Jack K? SF bay area, also heroin 

I remember a story of someone dying outside domes of heart attack, the
day after he saw top vaida guy

A while back a friend rattled off 3-4 people who died of AIDS, some
KSCI guys, and a guy married to Heidi?  

Seems like there are more that I have heard of but escape me at the
moment.






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