[FairfieldLife] Re: Why do Duveyoung and Angela like using the n-word so much?
Vaj, I don't know how you got to thinking I'm okay with Afrocentrism being taught. It's a bunch of shit, but I just know that most dogmas are filled with errors, and that it is a merely matter of degree when comparing Afrocentrism with the dogma of Modern Science. Science is replete with beliefs that go unexamined and are as unfounded as even the worst Afrocentric delusions. Einstein wrote his famous letter to FDR about making the first atomic bomb. What religious belief did Einstein consider before he wrote that letter? When Fritz Haber invented a method for mass producing poisonous gas that had no use except for warfare -- what religious implications can be surmised from that act? Whatever it was that these two big brains said to themselves, how different is that from an Afrocentric persons saying they're psychic because their skin is black? Einstein said, Build the bomb, because I know the full measure of its impact. How's that for delusion? Einstein believed he'd be doing the world a solid by creating that bomb. Oppenheimer said, In some sort of crude sense which no vulgarity, no humor, no overstatement can quite extinguish, the physicists have known sin; and this is a knowledge which they cannot lose. To me, it's a hard question to approach when asked, For the good of all, for the betterment of the world, what would be worse, ten million more Afrocentrists in the world or another Einstein or Oppenheimer? It is one thing to peddle nonsense, it is quite another to open up Pandora's box. If one is going to chide an Afrocentrist, be sure to chide others who are far more dangerously deluded about their abilities to handle the truth. I'd say, spend your time debunking scientific elitism before smacking a bunch of bell-curve-losers for goofy notions. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On May 2, 2008, at 11:55 AM, Duveyoung wrote: Afrocentrism is no more or less ignorant than any of the beliefs of every religion on Earthincluding the secular religions of democracy, I'm a good guy, and What me worry. Well, it's not a religion, but it does sometimes impact it. For example, there are a lot of Egyptian cults in the black community (some which are actually quite interesting). I've met a lot of interesting people through them. Talk about the blind leading the blind is, well, spurious, when in fact every group of humans will use delusions for the social glue. Well, we shouldn't be bringing them into science, history, academia and our schools. It took centuries since the Enlightenment for science to build up the knowledge we have today. Can you imagine the disconnect some hard-working African-American student would have to endure if, for example, they raised their hand in a college biochemistry class and mentioned that melanin actually biochemically gave some people psychic abilities or faster reaction times? Or if they went to Egypt and in talking to Egyptians expressed their belief that Black African-Americans were their descendants? I have seen the latter, and it was not a pretty scene. But OTOH, I've sat in ritual spaces with Black Egyptian priestesses who did know what they doing and they were themselves awakening because of it. That is quite beautiful to see. Because of denial being the very fabric of all ideologies, I'm inclined to largely forgive Afrocentrism's motivations and take a step back before I chide its conclusions which are simply as skewed as, say, Fox News. Well I suggest you pickup Lefkowitz's book if it ever grabs your fancy. If having read that and you still want to see these myths being taught as facts to your kids at the HS or college level, then get back to me.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Why do Duveyoung and Angela like using the n-word so much?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am I the only one on this forum that is offended when the n-word is used? Are you offended because it stems from a French word for 'black' that your forefathers used. Your forefathers, who chose to fight, at all costs, to be able to keep their slaves, at a time when they were completely aware that Britain was having successful court cases outlawing slavery on British soil? That is not offense you have sir, that is guilt. OffWorld
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why do Duveyoung and Angela like using the n-word so much?
On May 2, 2008, at 7:59 AM, off_world_beings wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am I the only one on this forum that is offended when the n-word is used? Are you offended because it stems from a French word for 'black' that your forefathers used. Your forefathers, who chose to fight, at all costs, to be able to keep their slaves, at a time when they were completely aware that Britain was having successful court cases outlawing slavery on British soil? That is not "offense" you have sir, that is guilt. Shemp is from Canada.From the post earlier this week on Obama's Afrocentric roots.MORAL STAINS: SLAVERY AND REALITYIf there is one subject which vexes the Afrocentrists, it is slavery. Since it provides the fuel for their wrathful approach to history, they understandably have tunnel-vision on the subject. What they see at the other end of their tunnel is Western culture, which they blame for the institution of slavery and the subsequent degradation it brought to blacks. Afrocentrists never acknowledge the fact that slavery was a universal institution in ancient times since such acknowledgment would lessen the victim status of blacks in America. (The virtual slavery of serfs in places such as Russia and England is quietly ignored, even though the term slave came from the word Slavic.)Having adopted a position of selective amnesia, Afrocentrists conclude that a culture responsible for an institution as heinous as slavery is morally corrupt, and that all political systems which sprang from it are irredeemable. Blacks, they conclude, should turn elsewhere for political inspiration and moral nurturing. Often they turn to the third world and to Islam, as the former is free from contamination by Western ways and the latter is associated with Africa, and thus perceived as free from the moral stain of slavery. The fact that throwing away Western principles undermines the political platform they speak from doesn’t seem to register with them. The methods of protest blacks have occasioned to use in seeking redress are not African principles – they are solidly Western in origin. But this matters not to the multiculturalists and the Afrocentrists, whose critical faculties seem to be in suspension regarding all subjects related to slavery. Arthur Schlesinger points out: “It is a sad fact that both European and African political traditions approved slavery, as did almost all the traditions we know about. It was the European political culture, however, that first called for the abolition of slavery. Neither racism nor the subjection of women is an Occidental invention, but political antiracism and feminism are.” Though the West was not responsible for the origin of slavery, it was responsible for its decline.Bernard Lewis, Professor of Near Eastern Studies at Princeton University, agrees with Schlesinger that the West is not responsible for the creation of the institution of slavery; further, he believes that if Western culture is abolished the institution of chattel slavery would certainly return. It is a singular and indisputable fact that, before the development of European civilization, most ancient cultures operated largely on a slave-driven economy, including Greece, where Democratic ideals were born. But it was Western principles and the resulting consciousness they generated that led to the dissolution of slavery not only in Europe and in the New World, but in Asia and Africa. America poet Ralph Waldo Emerson noted that the dissolution of slavery in the New World was the first instance where a revolution was not the result of insurrection of the oppressed, but due to the repentance of the tyrants. The significance of this seems lost to the Afro-centric community.Since one of the primary goals of Afrocentrism is to vilify European culture, the Afrocentric movement, with little regard for truth, magnifies the shortcomings of European culture and overlooks those of non-European cultures. Arthur Schlesinger calls this “Europhobia” and says that it makes for very bad history. This is evident in Afrocentric writings on slavery, which portray it as the result of a white conspiracy. To do this they disregard the fact that African slaves were captured by other Africans and delivered to Arab slave traders. There are exceptions to this in the black community. An official publication of The Nation of Islam, entitled The Secret Relationship Between Blacks and Jews, asserts that Jewish merchants played a major role in the foundation and running of the black African slave trade. Refutations of such propaganda by historians make no dent in the black community. The leader of the Nation of Islam, Minister Louis Farrakhan, has publicly made disparaging remarks against Jews that have been termed anti-Semitic by even the liberal press.Though traditional scholars admit that Afrocentric writings contain corruptions of the truth, many tacitly let them pass unhindered. This is because
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why do Duveyoung and Angela like using the n-word so much?
I am not a student of Afrocentrism, nor am I expert in the mainstream history of the slave trade on this planet. That said, however, there are several red flags that go up for me in reading the piece Moral Stains: Slavery and Reality. 1. The two paragraphs preceding the last one blatantly ignore white complicity in Africa's plight. 2. It may seem like a small thing, but one does expect a scholar to know the difference between the words sighted and cited. This author uses sighted when he means cited. 3. The documentation is a bit shoddy throughout. 4. It is fact, not fiction, that the African point of view has been given short shrift in main stream historical studies. There are more issues one could raise, but these are sufficient to alert an alert reader that the point of view in this piece is far balanced. This is not to say, of course, that Afrocentrism is not without serious problems and flaws. --- Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On May 2, 2008, at 7:59 AM, off_world_beings wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am I the only one on this forum that is offended when the n-word is used? Are you offended because it stems from a French word for 'black' that your forefathers used. Your forefathers, who chose to fight, at all costs, to be able to keep their slaves, at a time when they were completely aware that Britain was having successful court cases outlawing slavery on British soil? That is not offense you have sir, that is guilt. Shemp is from Canada. From the post earlier this week on Obama's Afrocentric roots. MORAL STAINS: SLAVERY AND REALITY If there is one subject which vexes the Afrocentrists, it is slavery. Since it provides the fuel for their wrathful approach to history, they understandably have tunnel-vision on the subject. What they see at the other end of their tunnel is Western culture, which they blame for the institution of slavery and the subsequent degradation it brought to blacks. Afrocentrists never acknowledge the fact that slavery was a universal institution in ancient times since such acknowledgment would lessen the victim status of blacks in America. (The virtual slavery of serfs in places such as Russia and England is quietly ignored, even though the term slave came from the word Slavic.) Having adopted a position of selective amnesia, Afrocentrists conclude that a culture responsible for an institution as heinous as slavery is morally corrupt, and that all political systems which sprang from it are irredeemable. Blacks, they conclude, should turn elsewhere for political inspiration and moral nurturing. Often they turn to the third world and to Islam, as the former is free from contamination by Western ways and the latter is associated with Africa, and thus perceived as free from the moral stain of slavery. The fact that throwing away Western principles undermines the political platform they speak from doesnât seem to register with them. The methods of protest blacks have occasioned to use in seeking redress are not African principles â they are solidly Western in origin. But this matters not to the multiculturalists and the Afrocentrists, whose critical faculties seem to be in suspension regarding all subjects related to slavery. Arthur Schlesinger points out: âIt is a sad fact that both European and African political traditions approved slavery, as did almost all the traditions we know about. It was the European political culture, however, that first called for the abolition of slavery. Neither racism nor the subjection of women is an Occidental invention, but political antiracism and feminism are.â Though the West was not responsible for the origin of slavery, it was responsible for its decline. Bernard Lewis, Professor of Near Eastern Studies at Princeton University, agrees with Schlesinger that the West is not responsible for the creation of the institution of slavery; further, he believes that if Western culture is abolished the institution of chattel slavery would certainly return. It is a singular and indisputable fact that, before the development of European civilization, most ancient cultures operated largely on a slave-driven economy, including Greece, where Democratic ideals were born. But it was Western principles and the resulting consciousness they generated that led to the dissolution of slavery not only in Europe and in the New World, but in Asia and Africa. America poet Ralph Waldo Emerson noted that the dissolution of slavery in the New World was the first instance where a revolution was not the result of insurrection of the oppressed, but due to the repentance of the tyrants. The significance of this seems lost to the Afro-centric community. Since one of the
[FairfieldLife] Re: Why do Duveyoung and Angela like using the n-word so much?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am not a student of Afrocentrism, nor am I expert in the mainstream history of the slave trade on this planet. That said, however, there are several red flags that go up for me in reading the piece Moral Stains: Slavery and Reality. Don't encourage the feeble-minded idiot, Angela. He's just yanking your chain. He realized sometime yesterday that he was well over the posting limit (about 25 over, by my guess) and that as a result he won't be around for a few weeks (hopefully more than two weeks this time after his...what is it... fourth time going seriously over the limit?), and decided to spew as much controversial crap as he possibly could until Rick caught on. In other words, the guy who can't count to 50 threw another one of his periodic terrible two's tantrums. It's good to remember that Shemp was *the* primary cause of the posting limits in the first place. He consistently posted more than even Judy and sparaig, and cate- gorically *refused* to consider cutting back voluntarily. But now that some teeth have been put into the posting limit thang, we won't have to deal with any of his unhappy crap for some weeks. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Why do Duveyoung and Angela like using the n-word so much?
Angela Mailander wrote: There are more issues one could raise... Not to mention that most anthropologists have abandoned the claim that there are any biologically distinct races with distinct linguistic, cultural and social groupings.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why do Duveyoung and Angela like using the n-word so much?
On May 2, 2008, at 9:52 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: He realized sometime yesterday that he was well over the posting limit (about 25 over, by my guess) and that as a result he won't be around for a few weeks (hopefully more than two weeks this time after his...what is it... fourth time going seriously over the limit?), and decided to spew as much controversial crap as he possibly could until Rick caught on. Not to mention he can hold a grudge longer than anybody I've seen in a while, at least online. There's obviously some serious stuff going on. For however long he's gone, hallelujah. Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why do Duveyoung and Angela like using the n-word so much?
On May 2, 2008, at 10:39 AM, Angela Mailander wrote: I am not a student of Afrocentrism, nor am I expert in the mainstream history of the slave trade on this planet. That said, however, there are several red flags that go up for me in reading the piece Moral Stains: Slavery and Reality. It's actually a small part of part 2 of a considerably longer article. 1. The two paragraphs preceding the last one blatantly ignore white complicity in Africa's plight. The white complicity is a given IMO as they're the ones who brought them over here! What he's addressing is the incorrect history so common in Afrocentrist writings. Such bad history is often used to support Black acceptance of Islam over white religion (and a number of other falsehoods). I believe that is what he's responding to. 2. It may seem like a small thing, but one does expect a scholar to know the difference between the words sighted and cited. This author uses sighted when he means cited. I don't know that this guy is a scholar. 3. The documentation is a bit shoddy throughout. The article actually has a long list of references, which you can see in the original. 4. It is fact, not fiction, that the African point of view has been given short shrift in main stream historical studies. His point however is quite different, what they're claiming is just bad history.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why do Duveyoung and Angela like using the n-word so much?
True, he is addressing a point that should be made, namely that Afrocentrism is often guilty of shoddy scholarship, but if you're guilty of the same thing in making your point, you're obviously doing yourself a disservice. --- Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On May 2, 2008, at 10:39 AM, Angela Mailander wrote: I am not a student of Afrocentrism, nor am I expert in the mainstream history of the slave trade on this planet. That said, however, there are several red flags that go up for me in reading the piece Moral Stains: Slavery and Reality. It's actually a small part of part 2 of a considerably longer article. 1. The two paragraphs preceding the last one blatantly ignore white complicity in Africa's plight. The white complicity is a given IMO as they're the ones who brought them over here! What he's addressing is the incorrect history so common in Afrocentrist writings. Such bad history is often used to support Black acceptance of Islam over white religion (and a number of other falsehoods). I believe that is what he's responding to. 2. It may seem like a small thing, but one does expect a scholar to know the difference between the words sighted and cited. This author uses sighted when he means cited. I don't know that this guy is a scholar. 3. The documentation is a bit shoddy throughout. The article actually has a long list of references, which you can see in the original. 4. It is fact, not fiction, that the African point of view has been given short shrift in main stream historical studies. His point however is quite different, what they're claiming is just bad history. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: Why do Duveyoung and Angela like using the n-word so much?
Afrocentrism is no more or less ignorant than any of the beliefs of every religion on Earthincluding the secular religions of democracy, I'm a good guy, and What me worry. Talk about the blind leading the blind is, well, spurious, when in fact every group of humans will use delusions for the social glue. Because of denial being the very fabric of all ideologies, I'm inclined to largely forgive Afrocentrism's motivations and take a step back before I chide its conclusions which are simply as skewed as, say, Fox News. Listen to CNN's priests intone the mantras of the establishment -- see the great gods of finance talk about the miracle of wealth trikling down -- one need go no further to espy delusion, dogma and the derth of truth. Why single out Afrocentrism? I suspect a hidden agenda of the critics who do so. Racism? Youbetcha. When the world is suffering as much as it is, this issue is, like most that are attended to by BigMedia, a purposefully chosen diversion from the actual ills of humanity -- don't want the masses to be thinking about those -- nosireebob! Nope, the nightly news is for trotting out anything that'll glom up the viewers with angst and confusions and let the leaders handle this-cuz-it's-way-too-hard-for-me-to-solve-ism. Watching the nightly news is a simple mental technique, right? Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On May 2, 2008, at 10:39 AM, Angela Mailander wrote: I am not a student of Afrocentrism, nor am I expert in the mainstream history of the slave trade on this planet. That said, however, there are several red flags that go up for me in reading the piece Moral Stains: Slavery and Reality. It's actually a small part of part 2 of a considerably longer article. 1. The two paragraphs preceding the last one blatantly ignore white complicity in Africa's plight. The white complicity is a given IMO as they're the ones who brought them over here! What he's addressing is the incorrect history so common in Afrocentrist writings. Such bad history is often used to support Black acceptance of Islam over white religion (and a number of other falsehoods). I believe that is what he's responding to. 2. It may seem like a small thing, but one does expect a scholar to know the difference between the words sighted and cited. This author uses sighted when he means cited. I don't know that this guy is a scholar. 3. The documentation is a bit shoddy throughout. The article actually has a long list of references, which you can see in the original. 4. It is fact, not fiction, that the African point of view has been given short shrift in main stream historical studies. His point however is quite different, what they're claiming is just bad history.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why do Duveyoung and Angela like using the n-word so much?
On May 2, 2008, at 11:55 AM, Duveyoung wrote: Afrocentrism is no more or less ignorant than any of the beliefs of every religion on Earthincluding the secular religions of democracy, I'm a good guy, and What me worry. Well, it's not a religion, but it does sometimes impact it. For example, there are a lot of Egyptian cults in the black community (some which are actually quite interesting). I've met a lot of interesting people through them. Talk about the blind leading the blind is, well, spurious, when in fact every group of humans will use delusions for the social glue. Well, we shouldn't be bringing them into science, history, academia and our schools. It took centuries since the Enlightenment for science to build up the knowledge we have today. Can you imagine the disconnect some hard-working African-American student would have to endure if, for example, they raised their hand in a college biochemistry class and mentioned that melanin actually biochemically gave some people psychic abilities or faster reaction times? Or if they went to Egypt and in talking to Egyptians expressed their belief that Black African-Americans were their descendants? I have seen the latter, and it was not a pretty scene. But OTOH, I've sat in ritual spaces with Black Egyptian priestesses who did know what they doing and they were themselves awakening because of it. That is quite beautiful to see. Because of denial being the very fabric of all ideologies, I'm inclined to largely forgive Afrocentrism's motivations and take a step back before I chide its conclusions which are simply as skewed as, say, Fox News. Well I suggest you pickup Lefkowitz's book if it ever grabs your fancy. If having read that and you still want to see these myths being taught as facts to your kids at the HS or college level, then get back to me.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Why do Duveyoung and Angela like using the n-word so much?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On May 2, 2008, at 7:59 AM, off_world_beings wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: Am I the only one on this forum that is offended when the n-word is used? Are you offended because it stems from a French word for 'black' that your forefathers used. Your forefathers, who chose to fight, at all costs, to be able to keep their slaves, at a time when they were completely aware that Britain was having successful court cases outlawing slavery on British soil? That is not offense you have sir, that is guilt. Shemp is from Canada. Shemp is a Jewish American who ran away to Canada during the Vietnam war period. He like Cheney and Bush avoided serving his country when called, and that is why he appears to be from Canada, but he is not originally. Come one Shemp, be honest, we know who you are now. OffWorld
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why do Duveyoung and Angela like using the n-word so much?
On May 2, 2008, at 6:42 PM, off_world_beings wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On May 2, 2008, at 7:59 AM, off_world_beings wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: Am I the only one on this forum that is offended when the n-word is used? Are you offended because it stems from a French word for 'black' that your forefathers used. Your forefathers, who chose to fight, at all costs, to be able to keep their slaves, at a time when they were completely aware that Britain was having successful court cases outlawing slavery on British soil? That is not offense you have sir, that is guilt. Shemp is from Canada. Shemp is a Jewish American who ran away to Canada during the Vietnam war period. He like Cheney and Bush avoided serving his country when called, and that is why he appears to be from Canada, but he is not originally. Come one Shemp, be honest, we know who you are now. Well I don't know if you are joking or not, but I always thought the name Shemp McGurk would've made a great show name for a standup playin' the Borscht Belt.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Why do Duveyoung and Angela like using the n-word so much?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's a little advice, Angela: Stop with the some of my best friends are... babble and just stick to not using offensive words, okay? I'm offended and that should be enough to get you to shut the fuck up. Seems to me that Shemp is pretty much *always* offended. I guess that means the whole world has to shut the fuck up.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why do Duveyoung and Angela like using the n-word so much?
It's pretty weird that he takes offense where none is given and then blames everybody but himself. --- TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's a little advice, Angela: Stop with the some of my best friends are... babble and just stick to not using offensive words, okay? I'm offended and that should be enough to get you to shut the fuck up. Seems to me that Shemp is pretty much *always* offended. I guess that means the whole world has to shut the fuck up. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: Why do Duveyoung and Angela like using the n-word so much?
Am I the only one on this forum that is offended when the n-word is used? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's pretty weird that he takes offense where none is given and then blames everybody but himself. --- TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: Here's a little advice, Angela: Stop with the some of my best friends are... babble and just stick to not using offensive words, okay? I'm offended and that should be enough to get you to shut the fuck up. Seems to me that Shemp is pretty much *always* offended. I guess that means the whole world has to shut the fuck up. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: Why do Duveyoung and Angela like using the n-word so much?
Here's a little advice, Angela: Stop with the some of my best friends are... babble and just stick to not using offensive words, okay? I'm offended and that should be enough to get you to shut the fuck up. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nigger is an English word with an interesting history. Whenever anyone uses it, context and intent is everything. When I have a conversation with my black brother-in-law or uncle or ex-husband, that word gets used. No one gets offended--in fact, it usually is used in such a way as to elicit a lot of laughter. I believe I know Dove well enough to know that he would not use it with evil intent. So get a grip Shemp, and use your head. --- shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote: [snip] nigger [snip] Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
