Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Animals self-medicate...go figure
Look at your own stats a little closer. Netherlands in 99 had 19 suicides US -21. Hmm How big are the Netherlands? About 15.8 Mil. And the US? 273 mil. Now I'm not a math wizz like you but it seems that would make Netherlands have a GROSSLY higher per capita suicide rate. And what does it say when Norway, which is 1/4 its size has twice the GNP of good times Netherlands? Oh but Im sure the fact that many individuals have to pay 60% of their wages to the government to support the unemployed and socialistic government has nothing to do with that. I mean who wouldn't want the government spending your money the way they see fit ?Makes you want to get upo in the morning and work, work, work. Although their red light district with their wonderfully shaporoned working girls is probabably one of the larger sources of income for the country. In conclusion I would just like to say a big "Fuck you" to Mr. Anonymous who decided to make this personal. - Original Message - From: anonymousff To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 2:14 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Animals self-medicate...go figure --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" [EMAIL PROTECTED]... wrote: Ya - no brainer lets be like the Dutch. They're so happy that theyhave one of the highest suicide rates in the world, Actually, male suicide rates are higher in the US (and US has muchhigher male homicide rates). Female suicide rates about 1/4 of thoseof male in both countries, is slightly higher in the Netherlandsrelative to the US. Overall rates are higher in US.http://www.who.int/mental_health/prevention/suicide/suiciderates/en/ and they're so productive that they have one of the lowest GNPs inthe world Well, not really. 17th. And 7 or so of the countries above them aretiny -- So they are in top 10 of countries of "size". About the samelevel as Canada. Higher than France, Germany, Spain, Austraila,Greece, Portugal, Singapore, Taiwan, italy, Greece, Korea ...http://www.studentsoftheworld.info/infopays/rank/PNBH2.htmlfor their size mostly because their taxation rate is over 50%Corporate tax rate is 35%, about average, internationally. Lower thanFrance and Germany.Marginal individual tax rates are 60%, high for my taste, but similarto France, Germany, Sweeden, etc. And remember thats the top marginalrate, which only applies to some upper level of income. Its NOT theaverage rate. Average rates are quite below 50% (your figure). Theirmarginal rate compares to US 35%, previously 39.5% marginal rate. Butwith state taxes that can be close to 45% now (50% a pre Bush). ButNetherlands has no capital gains tax. And their social service levelsare much higher, including health care. And so depending on mix ofincome to investments, taking indo account US state taxes, and healthindividually paid health costs, the total tax rates may not be muchhigher than in US. http://www.accf.org/publications/reports/sr-intcomparisoncap1998.htmland about 1/3 of their population is on the dole.That would imply a 30+% unemployment rate. That certainly is not correct. Their red-light district is a world-famous haven for drugs of all kinds Actually, they are quite harsh on harder drugs. They made the policydecision to be lax on pot and strict on heroin etc.as well as prostitution Um well what would you expect in a red light district? Prosititutionis rampant in the US too. Only its called "Escort Services". At leastin Amsterdam, the girls are all tested for diseases once a week, andtheir is no pimp abuse, or john abuse of working girls. And much lessstigma to working in the worlds oldest profession.including child-prostitutionper yor experience?So ya let's take a lesson frm the Dutch - good times!Yeah, they have some good things to teach us, per unc's stats.So Mark, you are the one who appears to be smoking pot, or is it justbecause your head is up your ass. :) - Original Message - From: TurquoiseB To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 3:55 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Animals self-medicate...go figure --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 6/25/05 7:54 PM, lurkernomore20002000 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know, it would seem logical to legalize pot. But I have heard knowledgeale people on the front lines, with no obvious agendaexcept to effectively deal with the problem, make a convincing argument that it is a gateway drug. Maybe it is. But maybe it depends on your personality or level of maturity. I think I have or had an addictive personality. As a teenager, I "progressed" from alcohol to pot (so maybe alcohol is a gateway drug too) to LSD (which I still don't regret) to dabbling
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Animals self-medicate...go figure
Ya - no brainer lets be like the Dutch. They're so happy that they have one of the highest suicide rates in the world, and they're so productive that they have one of the lowest GNPs in the world for their size mostly because their taxation rate is over 50% and about 1/3 of their population is on the dole. Their red-light district is a world-famous haven for drugs of all kinds as well as prostitution including child-prostitution. So ya let's take a lesson frm the Dutch - good times! - Original Message - From: TurquoiseB To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 3:55 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Animals self-medicate...go figure --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED]... wrote: on 6/25/05 7:54 PM, lurkernomore20002000 at [EMAIL PROTECTED]... wrote: I know, it would seem logical to legalize pot. But I have heard knowledgeale people on the front lines, with no obvious agenda except to effectively deal with the problem, make a convincing argument that it is a gateway drug. Maybe it is. But maybe it depends on your personality or level of maturity. I think I have or had an addictive personality. As a teenager, I "progressed" from alcohol to pot (so maybe alcohol is a gateway drug too) to LSD (which I still don't regret) to dabbling in heavier things - barbiturates, meth, heroin. Many kids I knew became junkies. But kids behave that way. Many college kids are binge drinkers. Kids experiment at that age. I know adults who may smoke a joint occasionally, but for them, it is clearly not a gateway to anything heavier.The bottom line in this debate probably belongs to theDutch. In the Netherlands marijuana has been quasi-legal and freely available for over 30 years. So whatare the statistics for marijuana use in the Netherlands?Less than 5% of the population have ever even botheredto try it.Compare and contrast to the US, where in some statessimple possession can land you in jail for a mandatoryten years. Well over 50% of the population has tried it.Seems like a no-brainer to me...UncTo subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoocom/group/FairfieldLife/and click 'Join This Group!' To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Animals self-medicate...go figure
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ya - no brainer lets be like the Dutch. They're so happy that they have one of the highest suicide rates in the world, Actually, male suicide rates are higher in the US (and US has much higher male homicide rates). Female suicide rates about 1/4 of those of male in both countries, is slightly higher in the Netherlands relative to the US. Overall rates are higher in US. http://www.who.int/mental_health/prevention/suicide/suiciderates/en/ and they're so productive that they have one of the lowest GNPs in the world Well, not really. 17th. And 7 or so of the countries above them are tiny -- So they are in top 10 of countries of size. About the same level as Canada. Higher than France, Germany, Spain, Austraila, Greece, Portugal, Singapore, Taiwan, italy, Greece, Korea ... http://www.studentsoftheworld.info/infopays/rank/PNBH2.html for their size mostly because their taxation rate is over 50% Corporate tax rate is 35%, about average, internationally. Lower than France and Germany. Marginal individual tax rates are 60%, high for my taste, but similar to France, Germany, Sweeden, etc. And remember thats the top marginal rate, which only applies to some upper level of income. Its NOT the average rate. Average rates are quite below 50% (your figure). Their marginal rate compares to US 35%, previously 39.5% marginal rate. But with state taxes that can be close to 45% now (50% a pre Bush). But Netherlands has no capital gains tax. And their social service levels are much higher, including health care. And so depending on mix of income to investments, taking indo account US state taxes, and health individually paid health costs, the total tax rates may not be much higher than in US. http://www.accf.org/publications/reports/sr-intcomparisoncap1998.html and about 1/3 of their population is on the dole. That would imply a 30+% unemployment rate. That certainly is not correct. Their red-light district is a world-famous haven for drugs of all kinds Actually, they are quite harsh on harder drugs. They made the policy decision to be lax on pot and strict on heroin etc. as well as prostitution Um well what would you expect in a red light district? Prosititution is rampant in the US too. Only its called Escort Services. At least in Amsterdam, the girls are all tested for diseases once a week, and their is no pimp abuse, or john abuse of working girls. And much less stigma to working in the worlds oldest profession. including child-prostitution per yor experience? So ya let's take a lesson frm the Dutch - good times! Yeah, they have some good things to teach us, per unc's stats. So Mark, you are the one who appears to be smoking pot, or is it just because your head is up your ass. :) - Original Message - From: TurquoiseB To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 3:55 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Animals self-medicate...go figure --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 6/25/05 7:54 PM, lurkernomore20002000 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know, it would seem logical to legalize pot. But I have heard knowledgeale people on the front lines, with no obvious agenda except to effectively deal with the problem, make a convincing argument that it is a gateway drug. Maybe it is. But maybe it depends on your personality or level of maturity. I think I have or had an addictive personality. As a teenager, I progressed from alcohol to pot (so maybe alcohol is a gateway drug too) to LSD (which I still don't regret) to dabbling in heavier things - barbiturates, meth, heroin. Many kids I knew became junkies. But kids behave that way. Many college kids are binge drinkers. Kids experiment at that age. I know adults who may smoke a joint occasionally, but for them, it is clearly not a gateway to anything heavier. The bottom line in this debate probably belongs to the Dutch. In the Netherlands marijuana has been quasi- legal and freely available for over 30 years. So what are the statistics for marijuana use in the Netherlands? Less than 5% of the population have ever even bothered to try it. Compare and contrast to the US, where in some states simple possession can land you in jail for a mandatory ten years. Well over 50% of the population has tried it. Seems like a no-brainer to me... Unc To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' -- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group FairfieldLife on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c
[FairfieldLife] Re: Animals self-medicate...go figure
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 6/25/05 7:54 PM, lurkernomore20002000 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know, it would seem logical to legalize pot. But I have heard knowledgeale people on the front lines, with no obvious agenda except to effectively deal with the problem, make a convincing argument that it is a gateway drug. Maybe it is. But maybe it depends on your personality or level of maturity. I think I have or had an addictive personality. As a teenager, I progressed from alcohol to pot (so maybe alcohol is a gateway drug too) to LSD (which I still don't regret) to dabbling in heavier things - barbiturates, meth, heroin. Many kids I knew became junkies. But kids behave that way. Many college kids are binge drinkers. Kids experiment at that age. I know adults who may smoke a joint occasionally, but for them, it is clearly not a gateway to anything heavier. The bottom line in this debate probably belongs to the Dutch. In the Netherlands marijuana has been quasi- legal and freely available for over 30 years. So what are the statistics for marijuana use in the Netherlands? Less than 5% of the population have ever even bothered to try it. Compare and contrast to the US, where in some states simple possession can land you in jail for a mandatory ten years. Well over 50% of the population has tried it. Seems like a no-brainer to me... Unc To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Animals self-medicate...go figure
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 6/25/05 1:10 PM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Guess it's not just humans who seek a shift in state of attention, eh? Very natural, which is why it shouldn't be criminalized. Or if it must be, let's cut the hypocrisy and make it a crime to imbibe alcohol, cigarettes, caffeine, etc. Try pushing that bill through. It's been done, in the case of alcohol... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Animals self-medicate...go figure
on 6/25/05 3:03 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 6/25/05 1:10 PM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Guess it's not just humans who seek a shift in state of attention, eh? Very natural, which is why it shouldn't be criminalized. Or if it must be, let's cut the hypocrisy and make it a crime to imbibe alcohol, cigarettes, caffeine, etc. Try pushing that bill through. It's been done, in the case of alcohol... Right. So I don't seriously mean it should be done again, or with the others. But I do feel the less harmful illegal drugs should be legalized. Make alcohol the benchmark if you wish. Pot is obviously safer. I don't understand the Libertarians, who would legalize everything. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Animals self-medicate...go figure
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 6/25/05 3:03 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 6/25/05 1:10 PM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Guess it's not just humans who seek a shift in state of attention, eh? Very natural, which is why it shouldn't be criminalized. Or if it must be, let's cut the hypocrisy and make it a crime to imbibe alcohol, cigarettes, caffeine, etc. Try pushing that bill through. It's been done, in the case of alcohol... Right. So I don't seriously mean it should be done again, or with the others. But I do feel the less harmful illegal drugs should be legalized. Make alcohol the benchmark if you wish. Pot is obviously safer. I don't understand the Libertarians, who would legalize everything. Its a philosophical thing. Laws are bad. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Animals self-medicate...go figure
In a message dated 6/25/05 7:14:56 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Guffaw. My father had several heart attacks and strokes. Severe alcoholic. And if your liver starts to go, the rest of the system follows. Maybe the liver was virtually gone before heart disease set in. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Animals self-medicate...go figure
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 6/25/05 7:14:56 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Guffaw. My father had several heart attacks and strokes. Severe alcoholic. And if your liver starts to go, the rest of the system follows. Maybe the liver was virtually gone before heart disease set in. Not likely. It's an old joke about alcohol that started circulating when the first research was published. The researchers don't think that itsthe alcohol, but the free radical scavangers found in grapes that are still present in some wines. Beer doesn't ahve the same effects, IIRC. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Animals self-medicate...go figure
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Right. So I don't seriously mean it should be done again, or with the others. But I do feel the less harmful illegal drugs should be legalized. Make alcohol the benchmark if you wish. Pot is obviously safer. I don't understand the Libertarians, who would legalize everything. I know, it would seem logical to legalize pot. But I have heard knowledgeale people on the front lines, with no obvious agenda except to effectively deal with the problem, make a convincing argument that it is a gateway drug. lurk To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Animals self-medicate...go figure
on 6/25/05 7:54 PM, lurkernomore20002000 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Right. So I don't seriously mean it should be done again, or with the others. But I do feel the less harmful illegal drugs should be legalized. Make alcohol the benchmark if you wish. Pot is obviously safer. I don't understand the Libertarians, who would legalize everything. I know, it would seem logical to legalize pot. But I have heard knowledgeale people on the front lines, with no obvious agenda except to effectively deal with the problem, make a convincing argument that it is a gateway drug. Maybe it is. But maybe it depends on your personality or level of maturity. I think I have or had an addictive personality. As a teenager, I progressed from alcohol to pot (so maybe alcohol is a gateway drug too) to LSD (which I still don't regret) to dabbling in heavier things - barbiturates, meth, heroin. Many kids I knew became junkies. But kids behave that way. Many college kids are binge drinkers. Kids experiment at that age. I know adults who may smoke a joint occasionally, but for them, it is clearly not a gateway to anything heavier. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Animals self-medicate...go figure
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I know, it would seem logical to legalize pot. But I have heard knowledgeale people on the front lines, with no obvious agenda except to effectively deal with the problem, make a convincing argument that it is a gateway drug. There are also very convincing arguments that this is a myth, however. One logical basis for a gateway phenomenon is that dealers who sell marijuana may also sell harder drugs, so once the contact is made, the marijuana user has easy access to substances s/he wouldn't have otherwise. But the solution to that would be, obviously, to legalize marijuana so no contact with a criminal dealer would be required to obtain it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Animals self-medicate...go figure
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Right. So I don't seriously mean it should be done again, or with the others. But I do feel the less harmful illegal drugs should be legalized. Make alcohol the benchmark if you wish. Pot is obviously safer. I don't understand the Libertarians, who would legalize everything. I know, it would seem logical to legalize pot. But I have heard knowledgeale people on the front lines, with no obvious agenda except to effectively deal with the problem, make a convincing argument that it is a gateway drug. lurk Cigarettes are more of a gateway drug than pot will ever be... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
