Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: In Statistical Truth, The Call to Spiritual Order,Rally Now to Meditation!
What do you mean by “even,” kimo sabe? Nobody since him, with rare exceptions, has ever been able to touch his wisdom. And nobody has surpassed it. Sal > On Aug 23, 2018, at 4:05 PM, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] > wrote: > > > > Look, Even The Buddha said: > Meditation brings wisdom; lack of meditation leaves ignorance. Know well what > leads you forward and what holds you back, and choose the path that leads to > wisdom. > > > Hagelin's Premise, > ..there are bodies of studies now authored, collaboratively with other > reputable universities and institutions, and conducted independent of the > .org, published studies that have extremely high statistical p values and > then also aggregated high p values studies, replicated too that correlate the > effects of meditating. Gold standard stuff. > > So the premise is that at a point the plain truth of such a series of > extremely extraordinarily high p value published studies in the aggregate > simply becomes statistical truth. A type of fact. What they correlate becomes > fair ‘rule of thumb’. Unless of course as people may be anti-science or > don’t understand science this way they may not grok what is completely > current in the cutting edge of knowledge. This does not deny that there was > bad or poorly designed or poorly performed science on meditation that went > before. However, a sheer weight of the best of science is plainly correlating > that it is a statistical truth now and quite fair rule of thumb that > meditating has benefits that go with its practice. QED. > > > A premise large in assertion and direction like a Monroe Doctrine, The > Marshall Plan or the Meissner-like Maharishi Effect, now as matter of > statistical fact: > > It is time to rally to meditation by all that the best of modern science > tells us is statistical truth and by what we know more objectively in our > experience as quite fair rule of thumb. It is quite time now to come together > in collective meditation for all that is good. > > > ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : > > We are grateful to all those who came answering the call and sat up in their > meditations with us in Fairfield, Iowa. It has been our honor to have had > those who traveled from distant places join alongside us here in collective > meditation in these times. > > From time in memorium this is called the work of moral courage where people, > deeper spiritual people [transcendentalists] do this, come in to groups > meditating together for something larger. > > -JaiGuruYou > > ..ought ..the peace movement ought to organize itself along military lines > and get down to brass tacks. > > People make ‘claim’ things like: > > One: “..the movement's confirmation-bias tainted research”. > > Confirmation-bias may be a fault of some of the earlier research but > evidently not of the replicating studies done in more recent times. That > there might have been some confirmation bias in some of the research does not > invalidate all the science published on meditating. There is a lot of > discussion and rebuttal about this for open minds to consider at > TruthaboutTM.org > > Two: “..Maharishi did not even really know if this coherence effect would > really work, as it seemed to be based on a rather loose association of a > statement by Patanjali with a coherence effect in physics.” > > A: The process of science includes taking observation, making hypothesis > about observations and then testing the hypothesis. Maharishi was at that the > whole time in process from very early on when he left India to go out and > teach meditation until his final days. Throughout his long career he would > use the large facility of the ™ movement to advance science by this process > of from observation making, to hypothesis and testing it. This was large > thinking of an inquiring mind. > > The disgruntled and disaffected may feel and gripe otherwise about him for > their own reasons but what he did in persistence at advancing broadly the > science on meditation in the last half of the 20th Century and into the 21St > Century was monumental in its developmental way. > > Developmental, like with Copernicus observing: Although Copernicus' model > changed the layout of the universe, it still had its faults. For one thing, > Copernicus held to the classical idea that the planets traveled in perfect > circles. It wasn't until the 1600s that Johannes Kepler proposed the orbits > were instead ellipses. As such, Copernicus' model featured the same epicycles > that marred in Ptolemy's earlier work, although there were fewer. > Copernicus' ideas, published only two months before he died, took nearly a > hundred years to seriously take hold. When Galileo Galilei claimed in 1632 > that Earth orbited the sun, building upon the Polish astronomer's work, he > found himself under house arrest for committing heresy against the Cathol
[FairfieldLife] Re: In Statistical Truth, The Call to Spiritual Order,Rally Now to Meditation!
Hagelin’s Premise.. As postulate..there are bodies of studies now authored, collaboratively with other reputable universities and institutions, and conducted independent of the .org, published studies that have extremely high statistical p values and then also aggregated high p values of meta studies, replicated too that correlate the effects of meditating. Gold standard stuff. So the postulate is that at a point the plain truth of such a series of extremely extraordinarily high p value published studies in the aggregate simply becomes statistical truth. A type of fact. What they correlate becomes fair ‘rule of thumb’. Unless of course as people may be anti-science or don’t understand science this way they may not grok what is completely current in the cutting edge of knowledge. This does not deny that there was bad or poorly designed or poorly performed science on meditation that went before. However, a sheer weight of the best of science is plainly correlating that it is a statistical truth now and quite fair rule of thumb that meditating has benefits that go with its practice. QED. Hagelin's Premise, By implication, a premise large in assertion and direction like a Monroe Doctrine, a Marshall Plan or the Meissner-like Maharishi Effect, now as matter of statistical fact: It is time to rally to meditation by all that the best of modern science tells us is statistical truth and by what we know more objectively in our experience as quite fair rule of thumb. It is quite time now to come together in collective meditation for all that is good. Therefore, In Numbers meditating and their proximity.. ‘It should be good’, to meditate in the group. Yes, evidently by the statistical truth of science it should be good that you come directly to meditate in the group. This becomes a matter of common sense, to join up. Something like with those continental minute-soldier volunteers of those committees for safety in colonial America, you should at the least form your group where you are for the protection of the countryside where you live or come directly to Fairfield, Iowa to join and reinforce the bigger group for the larger welfare of the country and world. Let there be Peace in the World. Om Shanti, Shanti, Shanti. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : In ‘developmental science’.. In the mid-20th century, there was little scientific research on meditation... May 1965 Maharishi Concludes Five World Tours "His Holiness returned to India on 20th March, 1965 after a successful nine-month world tour. ..A special feature of this tour was the keen interest generated in scientific circles in England, Germany and America, where scientists are now conducting experiments to assess the effects of Deep Meditation.." --Spiritual Regeneration Movement (SRM) NEWSLETTER Yifuxero writes: Thx, I agree with you on those assessments. The fact that there is no agreed upon standard for measuring the Shakti (basically since few people can even perceive it clearly), should not deter one's efforts to promote the ME (Shakti-Effect), since the positive effects are obvious. (the exact degree of those benefits is open to question). ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Well yes, on the one hand the social science research empirically shows that something happens when people meditate. That is becoming beyond doubt now except by some science-deniers who maybe don’t understand science or refuse to understand it. Though as you say, the science does not show the ‘how’ it happens. Objectively people know their own experience with it and conduct their own science accordingly. But you are right that science science has not physically got their fingers yet on the ‘how’. A month ago Dr. Hagelin gave a really interesting ‘spiritual’ talk on the ‘how’ it happens. The nature of shakti and the field that can be in the human system and the ‘how’ that happens and can have transforming effect inside and out. There is a guy visiting right now in Fairfield this week giving satsang on this with being a pervasive Meissner-like field effect of light, love, and shakti. This is palpable and then the tools of science research will probably catch up on that in time. Science people are thinking about this very problem and scratching their heads wondering particularly about this as you are here. yifuxero writes: Re "not the replicating studies of recent times" This statement is problematic since whether from long ago or recent times, the TMO has not shown that subtle energies operating in the ME (Shakti) can be measured at all. While it's true that certain people with psychic abilities (e.g. in the past, Leadbeater and at present, John Douglas), even these experiences are subjective and the property of rare individuals. Either the Shakti can a. not be measured at all b. can be cognized but not quanti
[FairfieldLife] Re: In Statistical Truth, The Call to Spiritual Order,Rally Now to Meditation!
As postulate..there are bodies of studies now authored, collaboratively with other reputable universities and institutions, and conducted independent of the .org, published studies that have extremely high statistical p values and then also aggregated high p values of meta studies, replicated too that correlate the effects of meditating. Gold standard stuff. So the premise is that at a point the plain truth of such a series of extremely extraordinarily high p value published studies in the aggregate simply becomes statistical truth. A type of fact. What they correlate becomes fair ‘rule of thumb’. Unless of course as people may be anti-science or don’t understand science this way they may not grok what is completely current in the cutting edge of knowledge. This does not deny that there was bad or poorly designed or poorly performed science on meditation that went before. However, a sheer weight of the best of science is plainly correlating that it is a statistical truth now and quite fair rule of thumb that meditating has benefits that go with its practice. QED. Hagelin's Premise, By implication, a premise large in assertion and direction like a Monroe Doctrine, a Marshall Plan or the Meissner-like Maharishi Effect, now as matter of statistical fact: It is time to rally to meditation by all that the best of modern science tells us is statistical truth and by what we know more objectively in our experience as quite fair rule of thumb. It is quite time now to come together in collective meditation for all that is good. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : In Numbers meditating and their proximity.. ‘It would be good’, to meditate in the group. Yes, evidently by the statistical truth of science it should be good that you come directly to meditate in the group. This becomes a matter of common sense, to join up. Something like with those continental minute-soldier volunteers of those committees for safety in colonial America, you should at the least form your group where you are for the protection of the countryside where you live or come directly to Fairfield, Iowa to join and reinforce the bigger group for the larger welfare of the country and world. Let there be Peace in the World. Om Shanti, Shanti, Shanti. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : In ‘developmental science’.. In the mid-20th century, there was little scientific research on meditation... May 1965 Maharishi Concludes Five World Tours "His Holiness returned to India on 20th March, 1965 after a successful nine-month world tour. ..A special feature of this tour was the keen interest generated in scientific circles in England, Germany and America, where scientists are now conducting experiments to assess the effects of Deep Meditation.." --Spiritual Regeneration Movement (SRM) NEWSLETTER Yifuxero writes: Thx, I agree with you on those assessments. The fact that there is no agreed upon standard for measuring the Shakti (basically since few people can even perceive it clearly), should not deter one's efforts to promote the ME (Shakti-Effect), since the positive effects are obvious. (the exact degree of those benefits is open to question). ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Well yes, on the one hand the social science research empirically shows that something happens when people meditate. That is becoming beyond doubt now except by some science-deniers who maybe don’t understand science or refuse to understand it. Though as you say, the science does not show the ‘how’ it happens. Objectively people know their own experience with it and conduct their own science accordingly. But you are right that science science has not physically got their fingers yet on the ‘how’. A month ago Dr. Hagelin gave a really interesting ‘spiritual’ talk on the ‘how’ it happens. The nature of shakti and the field that can be in the human system and the ‘how’ that happens and can have transforming effect inside and out. There is a guy visiting right now in Fairfield this week giving satsang on this with being a pervasive Meissner-like field effect of light, love, and shakti. This is palpable and then the tools of science research will probably catch up on that in time. Science people are thinking about this very problem and scratching their heads wondering particularly about this as you are here. yifuxero writes: Re "not the replicating studies of recent times" This statement is problematic since whether from long ago or recent times, the TMO has not shown that subtle energies operating in the ME (Shakti) can be measured at all. While it's true that certain people with psychic abilities (e.g. in the past, Leadbeater and at present, John Douglas), even these experiences are subjective and the property of rare individuals. Either the Shakti can a. not be measured at all b. can be cognized but not
[FairfieldLife] Re: In Statistical Truth, The Call to Spiritual Order,Rally Now to Meditation!
In Numbers meditating and their proximity.. ‘It would be good’, to meditate in the group. Yes, evidently by the statistical truth of science it should be good that you come directly to meditate in the group. This becomes a matter of common sense, to join up. Something like with those continental minute-soldier volunteers of those committees for safety in colonial America, you should at the least form your group where you are for the protection of the countryside where you live or come directly to Fairfield, Iowa to join and reinforce the bigger group for the larger welfare of the country and world. Let there be Peace in the World. Om Shanti, Shanti, Shanti. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : In ‘developmental science’.. In the mid-20th century, there was little scientific research on meditation... May 1965 Maharishi Concludes Five World Tours "His Holiness returned to India on 20th March, 1965 after a successful nine-month world tour. ..A special feature of this tour was the keen interest generated in scientific circles in England, Germany and America, where scientists are now conducting experiments to assess the effects of Deep Meditation.." --Spiritual Regeneration Movement (SRM) NEWSLETTER Yifuxero writes: Thx, I agree with you on those assessments. The fact that there is no agreed upon standard for measuring the Shakti (basically since few people can even perceive it clearly), should not deter one's efforts to promote the ME (Shakti-Effect), since the positive effects are obvious. (the exact degree of those benefits is open to question). ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Well yes, on the one hand the social science research empirically shows that something happens when people meditate. That is becoming beyond doubt now except by some science-deniers who maybe don’t understand science or refuse to understand it. Though as you say, the science does not show the ‘how’ it happens. Objectively people know their own experience with it and conduct their own science accordingly. But you are right that science science has not physically got their fingers yet on the ‘how’. A month ago Dr. Hagelin gave a really interesting ‘spiritual’ talk on the ‘how’ it happens. The nature of shakti and the field that can be in the human system and the ‘how’ that happens and can have transforming effect inside and out. There is a guy visiting right now in Fairfield this week giving satsang on this with being a pervasive Meissner-like field effect of light, love, and shakti. This is palpable and then the tools of science research will probably catch up on that in time. Science people are thinking about this very problem and scratching their heads wondering particularly about this as you are here. yifuxero writes: Re "not the replicating studies of recent times" This statement is problematic since whether from long ago or recent times, the TMO has not shown that subtle energies operating in the ME (Shakti) can be measured at all. While it's true that certain people with psychic abilities (e.g. in the past, Leadbeater and at present, John Douglas), even these experiences are subjective and the property of rare individuals. Either the Shakti can a. not be measured at all b. can be cognized but not quantified or c. can be measured and quantified with a matchine. None of these cases applies since assuming Hagelin is behind most of the claims for the ME, his statement on Batgap as to psychic abilities shows that he's not particularly adept in that regard So, if neither Hagelin or the other Administrators have any special psychic powers, and they haven't yet discovered a machine that can measure the Shakti, then: there are no alternatives and the claims as to ME are wildly speculative and without a scientific basis. As to statistical replication, one must eliminate all other possible Shakti effects as candidates. The research on the physiological effects of TM is in a separate category and has its own faults, chiefly the failure to compare the results with experienced Mindfulness practitioners. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : People ‘claim’ things like: One: “..the movement's confirmation-bias tainted research”. Confirmation-bias may be a fault of some of the earlier research but evidently not of the replicating studies done in more recent times. That there might have been some confirmation bias in some of the research does not invalidate all the science published on meditating. There is a lot of discussion and rebuttal about this for open minds to consider at TruthaboutTM.org Two: “..Maharishi did not even really know if this coherence effect would really work, as it seemed to be based on a rather loose association of a statement by Patanjali with a coherence effect in physics.” The process of science includes taking observation, mak
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: In Statistical Truth, The Call to Spiritual Order,Rally Now to Meditation!
this fantasy goes away, that self realization has a chance to click over. The purpose of meditation is really to exorcize the unreal options the mind entertains about the experiences it has. They bubble up as thoughts, spontaneously, without our trying. Those thoughts tangle us up in unreality. Eventually the mind becomes silent, and those intrusion into direct experience become less and less frequent. When the mind is silent it does not judge or evaluate in terms of some ideology or other, it simply sees the way things are, and accepts that. On Sunday, July 2, 2017, 5:58:54 AM EDT, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Good to see that in the end you have reconciled all this skepticism of the published science of meditation in meditation. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Comments below in text. From: "dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 4:39 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: In Statistical Truth, The Call to Spiritual Order,Rally Now to Meditation! People ‘claim’ things like: One: “..the movement's confirmation-bias tainted research”. Confirmation-bias may be a fault of some of the earlier research but evidently not of the replicating studies done in more recent times. That there might have been some confirmation bias in some of the research does not invalidate all the science published on meditating. There is a lot of discussion and rebuttal about this for open minds to consider at TruthaboutTM.org TruthaboutTM.org is a die hard TM site by David Orme-Johnson. It is not in any way scientifically neutral. Anyone who strongly believes that what Maharishi says is true will have a hard time constructing research that is neutral. If you take the position that everything Maharishi said is false, that too would likely create a situation that would taint research, although if you really try to prove some hypothesis false and it survives all those tests, the hypothesis will be in a much better position to be accepted. Social research with large groups is notoriously hard to control properly. Two: “..Maharishi did not even really know if this coherence effect would really work, as it seemed to be based on a rather loose association of a statement by Patanjali with a coherence effect in physics.” The process of science includes taking observation, making hypothesis about observations and then testing the hypothesis. Maharishi was at that the whole time in process from very early on when he left India to go out and teach meditation until his final days. Throughout his long career he would use the large facility of the ™ movement to advance science by this process of from observation making, to hypothesis and testing it. This was large thinking of an inquiring mind. The disgruntled and disaffected may feel and gripe otherwise about him for their own reasons but what he did in persistence at advancing broadly the science on meditation in the last half of the 20th Century and into the 21St Century was monumental in its developmental way. But how you test the hypothesis is the key. That is the brain buster. You not only have to test ways that might show it is right, but also test in ways that would show it is wrong. The ME effect has not been tested this way. One of the problems is non-movement scientists are not horribly interested in this research, as they would likely be more likely to attack both the philosophical explanation and discover experimental flaws in the experimental design. David Orme-Johnson has resisted all attempts by other scientists to get access his raw data for the ME. He is retired now, so of course, not actively pursuing any of this with new research. One thing that would need to be explained is why MUM seems to be doing so poorly while being the center of the alleged positive effects in question. As a university it is a decaying shell of its glory days. Hypothetically the movement explains the Maharishi Effect as a unified field effect, yet there is no accepted unified field theory in science yet. There are many candidates, but none have any experimental evidence to confirm or deny them except those theories that predict the decay of the proton. Experiments have shown no proton decay, which makes Hagelin's flipped SU5 theory unlikely to be true as it predicts proton decay. The movement science overlooks other possible explanations that are not unified field based, such as a magnetic effect, an electromagnetic effect, a chemical effect, social-behavioral effects, and even, there is no effect. Scientific explanations do not start with explanations based on what we have not yet figured out or discovered to be likely true, but on explanations that are currently accepted and then the discoveries grow out from that. Saying the M
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: In Statistical Truth, The Call to Spiritual Order,Rally Now to Meditation!
us up in unreality. Eventually the mind becomes silent, and those intrusion into direct experience become less and less frequent. When the mind is silent it does not judge or evaluate in terms of some ideology or other, it simply sees the way things are, and accepts that. On Sunday, July 2, 2017, 5:58:54 AM EDT, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Good to see that in the end you have reconciled all this skepticism of the published science of meditation in meditation. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Comments below in text. From: "dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 4:39 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: In Statistical Truth, The Call to Spiritual Order,Rally Now to Meditation! People ‘claim’ things like: One: “..the movement's confirmation-bias tainted research”. Confirmation-bias may be a fault of some of the earlier research but evidently not of the replicating studies done in more recent times. That there might have been some confirmation bias in some of the research does not invalidate all the science published on meditating. There is a lot of discussion and rebuttal about this for open minds to consider at TruthaboutTM.org TruthaboutTM.org is a die hard TM site by David Orme-Johnson. It is not in any way scientifically neutral. Anyone who strongly believes that what Maharishi says is true will have a hard time constructing research that is neutral. If you take the position that everything Maharishi said is false, that too would likely create a situation that would taint research, although if you really try to prove some hypothesis false and it survives all those tests, the hypothesis will be in a much better position to be accepted. Social research with large groups is notoriously hard to control properly. Two: “..Maharishi did not even really know if this coherence effect would really work, as it seemed to be based on a rather loose association of a statement by Patanjali with a coherence effect in physics.” The process of science includes taking observation, making hypothesis about observations and then testing the hypothesis. Maharishi was at that the whole time in process from very early on when he left India to go out and teach meditation until his final days. Throughout his long career he would use the large facility of the ™ movement to advance science by this process of from observation making, to hypothesis and testing it. This was large thinking of an inquiring mind. The disgruntled and disaffected may feel and gripe otherwise about him for their own reasons but what he did in persistence at advancing broadly the science on meditation in the last half of the 20th Century and into the 21St Century was monumental in its developmental way. But how you test the hypothesis is the key. That is the brain buster. You not only have to test ways that might show it is right, but also test in ways that would show it is wrong. The ME effect has not been tested this way. One of the problems is non-movement scientists are not horribly interested in this research, as they would likely be more likely to attack both the philosophical explanation and discover experimental flaws in the experimental design. David Orme-Johnson has resisted all attempts by other scientists to get access his raw data for the ME. He is retired now, so of course, not actively pursuing any of this with new research. One thing that would need to be explained is why MUM seems to be doing so poorly while being the center of the alleged positive effects in question. As a university it is a decaying shell of its glory days. Hypothetically the movement explains the Maharishi Effect as a unified field effect, yet there is no accepted unified field theory in science yet. There are many candidates, but none have any experimental evidence to confirm or deny them except those theories that predict the decay of the proton. Experiments have shown no proton decay, which makes Hagelin's flipped SU5 theory unlikely to be true as it predicts proton decay. The movement science overlooks other possible explanations that are not unified field based, such as a magnetic effect, an electromagnetic effect, a chemical effect, social-behavioral effects, and even, there is no effect. Scientific explanations do not start with explanations based on what we have not yet figured out or discovered to be likely true, but on explanations that are currently accepted and then the discoveries grow out from that. Saying the Maharishi effect is unified field based means scientists have nothing to test so it provides no theoretical way to understand the theory. My own experience is there is something going on in those groups, but it could well be the explanation is not what we are being told. It could even be just credulity or gullibility, but this could not be the entire explanat
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: In Statistical Truth, The Call to Spiritual Order,Rally Now to Meditation!
Good to see that in the end you have reconciled all this skepticism of the published science of meditation in meditation. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Comments below in text. From: "dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 4:39 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: In Statistical Truth, The Call to Spiritual Order,Rally Now to Meditation! People ‘claim’ things like: One: “..the movement's confirmation-bias tainted research”. Confirmation-bias may be a fault of some of the earlier research but evidently not of the replicating studies done in more recent times. That there might have been some confirmation bias in some of the research does not invalidate all the science published on meditating. There is a lot of discussion and rebuttal about this for open minds to consider at TruthaboutTM.org TruthaboutTM.org is a die hard TM site by David Orme-Johnson. It is not in any way scientifically neutral. Anyone who strongly believes that what Maharishi says is true will have a hard time constructing research that is neutral. If you take the position that everything Maharishi said is false, that too would likely create a situation that would taint research, although if you really try to prove some hypothesis false and it survives all those tests, the hypothesis will be in a much better position to be accepted. Social research with large groups is notoriously hard to control properly. Two: “..Maharishi did not even really know if this coherence effect would really work, as it seemed to be based on a rather loose association of a statement by Patanjali with a coherence effect in physics.” The process of science includes taking observation, making hypothesis about observations and then testing the hypothesis. Maharishi was at that the whole time in process from very early on when he left India to go out and teach meditation until his final days. Throughout his long career he would use the large facility of the ™ movement to advance science by this process of from observation making, to hypothesis and testing it. This was large thinking of an inquiring mind. The disgruntled and disaffected may feel and gripe otherwise about him for their own reasons but what he did in persistence at advancing broadly the science on meditation in the last half of the 20th Century and into the 21St Century was monumental in its developmental way. But how you test the hypothesis is the key. That is the brain buster. You not only have to test ways that might show it is right, but also test in ways that would show it is wrong. The ME effect has not been tested this way. One of the problems is non-movement scientists are not horribly interested in this research, as they would likely be more likely to attack both the philosophical explanation and discover experimental flaws in the experimental design. David Orme-Johnson has resisted all attempts by other scientists to get access his raw data for the ME. He is retired now, so of course, not actively pursuing any of this with new research. One thing that would need to be explained is why MUM seems to be doing so poorly while being the center of the alleged positive effects in question. As a university it is a decaying shell of its glory days. Hypothetically the movement explains the Maharishi Effect as a unified field effect, yet there is no accepted unified field theory in science yet. There are many candidates, but none have any experimental evidence to confirm or deny them except those theories that predict the decay of the proton. Experiments have shown no proton decay, which makes Hagelin's flipped SU5 theory unlikely to be true as it predicts proton decay. The movement science overlooks other possible explanations that are not unified field based, such as a magnetic effect, an electromagnetic effect, a chemical effect, social-behavioral effects, and even, there is no effect. Scientific explanations do not start with explanations based on what we have not yet figured out or discovered to be likely true, but on explanations that are currently accepted and then the discoveries grow out from that. Saying the Maharishi effect is unified field based means scientists have nothing to test so it provides no theoretical way to understand the theory. My own experience is there is something going on in those groups, but it could well be the explanation is not what we are being told. It could even be just credulity or gullibility, but this could not be the entire explanation as there are group effects in any group. It is just figuring out what they are. There are many kinds of social phenomena where groups with a common belief get together and act more or less like an organic whole, not all positive. Riots for example. How does this behavior spread s
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: In Statistical Truth, The Call to Spiritual Order,Rally Now to Meditation!
Here’s what I wrote about radiance: TMers emanate a type of radiance during group meditations. Maharishi and the TM movement have had several publicity campaigns extolling possible benefits to society from radiance. There are many instances besides meditation when a kind of energy is transferred from person to person. For example, the electricity-like atmosphere at concerts, plays, and sporting events is an amazing, worthwhile life experience. Another possibility of energy transference might occur when seeing someone else yawn, or when riding in a car with someone who takes a nap. In 1973, I first noticed that meditations seemed deeper when meditating with others on my Science of Creative Intelligence course. There is a radiance effect coming off a meditator that does affect other meditators in the vicinity. I noticed a radiance effect also when learning the TM-Sidhi on levitation in that I was more likely to hop when someone close to me was also hopping. During the years that I was ungrounded, I seemed to sense a deeper quality of silence when entering the city of Fairfield, Iowa. Although the placebo effect could be at play, I think that an ungrounded person is more likely to sense the deeper silence in Fairfield than someone who is grounded. The TM organization came up with what seems to be fanciful mathematics to predict the radiance effect of the TM-Sidhis program. They stated that when the square root of 1% of a population practices the TM-Sidhis program as a group, there will be an immediate reduction of hostility and violence in the population. These kinds of unbelievable claims eventually made it easy for me to walk away from the TM movement. I do think there is a super-radiance effect from large groups practicing the TM and TM-Sidhi program, but I suspect it has a mixture of healthy and unhealthy effects. The unhealthy effect of TM super-radiance is probably greater on people who are ungrounded. I suspect that the effect on the population as a whole would be negligible, but there might be a means of small benefit through hormesis. More on my musings at https://myenlightenmentdelusion.wordpress.com From: Archer Angel archonan...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2017 2:59 PM To: Archer Angel archonan...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: In Statistical Truth, The Call to Spiritual Order,Rally Now to Meditation! I was wondering just what kind of research might show up under "group effects of meditation." group effects of meditation - Google Scholar group effects of meditation - Google Scholar This search on Google does not search for only results from TM.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: In Statistical Truth, The Call to Spiritual Order,Rally Now to Meditation!
I was wondering just what kind of research might show up under "group effects of meditation." group effects of meditation - Google Scholar | | | | group effects of meditation - Google Scholar | | | This search on Google does not search for only results from TM. On Thursday, June 22, 2017, 12:22:42 PM PDT, Archer Angel archonan...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Comments below in text. From: "dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 4:39 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: In Statistical Truth, The Call to Spiritual Order,Rally Now to Meditation! People ‘claim’ things like: _,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Re: In Statistical Truth, The Call to Spiritual Order,Rally Now to Meditation!
In ‘developmental science’.. In the mid-20th century, there was little scientific research on meditation... May 1965 Maharishi Concludes Five World Tours "His Holiness returned to India on 20th March, 1965 after a successful nine-month world tour. ..A special feature of this tour was the keen interest generated in scientific circles in England, Germany and America, where scientists are now conducting experiments to assess the effects of Deep Meditation.." --Spiritual Regeneration Movement (SRM) NEWSLETTER Yifuxero writes: Thx, I agree with you on those assessments. The fact that there is no agreed upon standard for measuring the Shakti (basically since few people can even perceive it clearly), should not deter one's efforts to promote the ME (Shakti-Effect), since the positive effects are obvious. (the exact degree of those benefits is open to question). ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Well yes, on the one hand the social science research empirically shows that something happens when people meditate. That is becoming beyond doubt now except by some science-deniers who maybe don’t understand science or refuse to understand it. Though as you say, the science does not show the ‘how’ it happens. Objectively people know their own experience with it and conduct their own science accordingly. But you are right that science science has not physically got their fingers yet on the ‘how’. A month ago Dr. Hagelin gave a really interesting ‘spiritual’ talk on the ‘how’ it happens. The nature of shakti and the field that can be in the human system and the ‘how’ that happens and can have transforming effect inside and out. There is a guy visiting right now in Fairfield this week giving satsang on this with being a pervasive Meissner-like field effect of light, love, and shakti. This is palpable and then the tools of science research will probably catch up on that in time. Science people are thinking about this very problem and scratching their heads wondering particularly about this as you are here. yifuxero writes: Re "not the replicating studies of recent times" This statement is problematic since whether from long ago or recent times, the TMO has not shown that subtle energies operating in the ME (Shakti) can be measured at all. While it's true that certain people with psychic abilities (e.g. in the past, Leadbeater and at present, John Douglas), even these experiences are subjective and the property of rare individuals. Either the Shakti can a. not be measured at all b. can be cognized but not quantified or c. can be measured and quantified with a matchine. None of these cases applies since assuming Hagelin is behind most of the claims for the ME, his statement on Batgap as to psychic abilities shows that he's not particularly adept in that regard So, if neither Hagelin or the other Administrators have any special psychic powers, and they haven't yet discovered a machine that can measure the Shakti, then: there are no alternatives and the claims as to ME are wildly speculative and without a scientific basis. As to statistical replication, one must eliminate all other possible Shakti effects as candidates. The research on the physiological effects of TM is in a separate category and has its own faults, chiefly the failure to compare the results with experienced Mindfulness practitioners. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : People ‘claim’ things like: One: “..the movement's confirmation-bias tainted research”. Confirmation-bias may be a fault of some of the earlier research but evidently not of the replicating studies done in more recent times. That there might have been some confirmation bias in some of the research does not invalidate all the science published on meditating. There is a lot of discussion and rebuttal about this for open minds to consider at TruthaboutTM.org Two: “..Maharishi did not even really know if this coherence effect would really work, as it seemed to be based on a rather loose association of a statement by Patanjali with a coherence effect in physics.” The process of science includes taking observation, making hypothesis about observations and then testing the hypothesis. Maharishi was at that the whole time in process from very early on when he left India to go out and teach meditation until his final days. Throughout his long career he would use the large facility of the ™ movement to advance science by this process of from observation making, to hypothesis and testing it. This was large thinking of an inquiring mind. The disgruntled and disaffected may feel and gripe otherwise about him for their own reasons but what he did in persistence at advancing broadly the science on meditation in the last half of the 20th Century and into the 21St Century was monumental in its developmental way. Developmental like wit
[FairfieldLife] Re: In Statistical Truth, The Call to Spiritual Order,Rally Now to Meditation!
Thx, I agree with you on those assessments. The fact that there is no agreed upon standard for measuring the Shakti (basically since few people can even perceive it clearly), should not deter one's efforts to promote the ME (Shakti-Effect), since the positive effects are obvious. (the exact degree of those benefits is open to question).
[FairfieldLife] Re: In Statistical Truth, The Call to Spiritual Order,Rally Now to Meditation!
Well yes, on the one hand the social science research empirically shows that something happens when people meditate. That is becoming beyond doubt now except by some science-deniers who maybe don’t understand science or refuse to understand it. Though as you say, the science does not show the ‘how’ it happens. Objectively people know their own experience with it and conduct their own science accordingly. But you are right that science science has not physically got their fingers yet on the ‘how’. A month ago Dr. Hagelin gave a really interesting ‘spiritual’ talk on the ‘how’ it happens. The nature of shakti and the field that can be in the human system and the ‘how’ that happens and can have transforming effect inside and out. There is a guy visiting right now in Fairfield this week giving satsang on this with being a pervasive Meissner-like field effect of light, love, and shakti. This is palpable and then the tools of science research will probably catch up on that in time. Science people are thinking about this very problem and scratching their heads wondering particularly about this as you are here. yifuxero writes: Re "not the replicating studies of recent times" This statement is problematic since whether from long ago or recent times, the TMO has not shown that subtle energies operating in the ME (Shakti) can be measured at all. While it's true that certain people with psychic abilities (e.g. in the past, Leadbeater and at present, John Douglas), even these experiences are subjective and the property of rare individuals. Either the Shakti can a. not be measured at all b. can be cognized but not quantified or c. can be measured and quantified with a matchine. None of these cases applies since assuming Hagelin is behind most of the claims for the ME, his statement on Batgap as to psychic abilities shows that he's not particularly adept in that regard So, if neither Hagelin or the other Administrators have any special psychic powers, and they haven't yet discovered a machine that can measure the Shakti, then: there are no alternatives and the claims as to ME are wildly speculative and without a scientific basis. As to statistical replication, one must eliminate all other possible Shakti effects as candidates. The research on the physiological effects of TM is in a separate category and has its own faults, chiefly the failure to compare the results with experienced Mindfulness practitioners. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : People ‘claim’ things like: One: “..the movement's confirmation-bias tainted research”. Confirmation-bias may be a fault of some of the earlier research but evidently not of the replicating studies done in more recent times. That there might have been some confirmation bias in some of the research does not invalidate all the science published on meditating. There is a lot of discussion and rebuttal about this for open minds to consider at TruthaboutTM.org Two: “..Maharishi did not even really know if this coherence effect would really work, as it seemed to be based on a rather loose association of a statement by Patanjali with a coherence effect in physics.” The process of science includes taking observation, making hypothesis about observations and then testing the hypothesis. Maharishi was at that the whole time in process from very early on when he left India to go out and teach meditation until his final days. Throughout his long career he would use the large facility of the ™ movement to advance science by this process of from observation making, to hypothesis and testing it. This was large thinking of an inquiring mind. The disgruntled and disaffected may feel and gripe otherwise about him for their own reasons but what he did in persistence at advancing broadly the science on meditation in the last half of the 20th Century and into the 21St Century was monumental in its developmental way. Developmental like with Copernicus observing: Although Copernicus' model changed the layout of the universe, it still had its faults. For one thing, Copernicus held to the classical idea that the planets traveled in perfect circles. It wasn't until the 1600s that Johannes Kepler https://www.space.com/15787-johannes-kepler.html proposed the orbits were instead ellipses. As such, Copernicus' model featured the same epicycles that marred in Ptolemy's earlier work, although there were fewer. Copernicus' ideas, published only two months before he died, took nearly a hundred years to seriously take hold. When Galileo Galilei https://www.space.com/15589-galileo-galilei.html claimed in 1632 that Earth orbited the sun, building upon the Polish astronomer's work, he found himself under house arrest for committing heresy against the Catholic church. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : At start of Summer 2017 now, within this circumstance of
[FairfieldLife] Re: In Statistical Truth, The Call to Spiritual Order,Rally Now to Meditation!
Well yes, on the one hand the social science research empirically shows that something happens when people meditate. That is becoming beyond doubt now except by some science-deniers who maybe don’t understand science or refuse to understand it. Though as you say, the science does not show the ‘how’ it happens’. Objectively people know their own experience with it and conduct their own science accordingly. But you are right that science science has not physically got their fingers yet on the ‘how’. A month ago Dr. Hagelin gave a really interesting ‘spiritual’ talk on the ‘how’ it happens. The nature of the shakti or the field that can be in the human system and the ‘how’ that happens. There is a guy visiting right now in Fairfield this week giving satsang on this with being a pervasive field effect of light, love, and shakti. This is palpable and then the tools of science research will probably catch up on that in time. Science people are thinking about this very study problem and scratching their heads wondering particularly about this as you are here. yifuxero writes: Re "not the replicating studies of recent times" This statement is problematic since whether from long ago or recent times, the TMO has not shown that subtle energies operating in the ME (Shakti) can be measured at all. While it's true that certain people with psychic abilities (e.g. in the past, Leadbeater and at present, John Douglas), even these experiences are subjective and the property of rare individuals. Either the Shakti can a. not be measured at all b. can be cognized but not quantified or c. can be measured and quantified with a matchine. None of these cases applies since assuming Hagelin is behind most of the claims for the ME, his statement on Batgap as to psychic abilities shows that he's not particularly adept in that regard So, if neither Hagelin or the other Administrators have any special psychic powers, and they haven't yet discovered a machine that can measure the Shakti, then: there are no alternatives and the claims as to ME are wildly speculative and without a scientific basis. As to statistical replication, one must eliminate all other possible Shakti effects as candidates. The research on the physiological effects of TM is in a separate category and has its own faults, chiefly the failure to compare the results with experienced Mindfulness practitioners. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : People ‘claim’ things like: One: “..the movement's confirmation-bias tainted research”. Confirmation-bias may be a fault of some of the earlier research but evidently not of the replicating studies done in more recent times. That there might have been some confirmation bias in some of the research does not invalidate all the science published on meditating. There is a lot of discussion and rebuttal about this for open minds to consider at TruthaboutTM.org Two: “..Maharishi did not even really know if this coherence effect would really work, as it seemed to be based on a rather loose association of a statement by Patanjali with a coherence effect in physics.” The process of science includes taking observation, making hypothesis about observations and then testing the hypothesis. Maharishi was at that the whole time in process from very early on when he left India to go out and teach meditation until his final days. Throughout his long career he would use the large facility of the ™ movement to advance science by this process of from observation making, to hypothesis and testing it. This was large thinking of an inquiring mind. The disgruntled and disaffected may feel and gripe otherwise about him for their own reasons but what he did in persistence at advancing broadly the science on meditation in the last half of the 20th Century and into the 21St Century was monumental in its developmental way. Developmental like with Copernicus observing: Although Copernicus' model changed the layout of the universe, it still had its faults. For one thing, Copernicus held to the classical idea that the planets traveled in perfect circles. It wasn't until the 1600s that Johannes Kepler https://www.space.com/15787-johannes-kepler.html proposed the orbits were instead ellipses. As such, Copernicus' model featured the same epicycles that marred in Ptolemy's earlier work, although there were fewer. Copernicus' ideas, published only two months before he died, took nearly a hundred years to seriously take hold. When Galileo Galilei https://www.space.com/15589-galileo-galilei.html claimed in 1632 that Earth orbited the sun, building upon the Polish astronomer's work, he found himself under house arrest for committing heresy against the Catholic church. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : At start of Summer 2017 now, within this circumstance of consequence with the collapse of the Dome numbers medit
[FairfieldLife] Re: In Statistical Truth, The Call to Spiritual Order,Rally Now to Meditation!
Re "not the replicating studies of recent times" This statement is problematic since whether from long ago or recent times, the TMO has not shown that subtle energies operating in the ME (Shakti) can be measured at all. While it's true that certain people with psychic abilities (e.g. in the past, Leadbeater and at present, John Douglas), even these experiences are subjective and the property of rare individuals. Either the Shakti can a. not be measured at all b. can be cognized but not quantified or c. can be measured and quantified with a matchine. None of these cases applies since assuming Hagelin is behind most of the claims for the ME, his statement on Batgap as to psychic abilities shows that he's not particularly adept in that regard So, if neither Hagelin or the other Administrators have any special psychic powers, and they haven't yet discovered a machine that can measure the Shakti, then: there are no alternatives and the claims as to ME are wildly speculative and without a scientific basis. As to statistical replication, one must eliminate all other possible Shakti effects as candidates. The research on the physiological effects of TM is in a separate category and has its own faults, chiefly the failure to compare the results with experienced Mindfulness practitioners.
