[FairfieldLife] Re: Masters and mistakes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think I finished up my musings about Rama with three words -- I don't know. I'm still pretty comfortable with that. And I like the two scorpion stories...he was a fun character to channel. Yes, he was funny. I like the idea of the personal Tsaklis too. On the whole, I think that there is a lot more to be learned from a teacher who makes mistakes and fucks up along the Way than there is to be learned from a teacher who does everything perfectly. Since in my opinion the world has *never* seen one of the latter, I'm grateful to have run into some of the most colorful examples of the former. :-) Unc To paraphrase someone I respect a lot in a discussion about guru infallibility--some people say Maharishi doesn't make mistakes. Nonesense. If you you are in the relative there are mistakes. He makes a master's mistakes, that's all. With all the implications arising from that! cheers hd To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Masters and mistakes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hermandan0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip To paraphrase someone I respect a lot in a discussion about guru infallibility--some people say Maharishi doesn't make mistakes. Nonesense. If you you are in the relative there are mistakes. He makes a master's mistakes, that's all. With all the implications arising from that! Well put! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Masters and mistakes
What's a mistake? I'm serious. I can't figure it out. When outcome doesn't match intention? When suffering is created? It's a concept that is very difficult to define. It seems to be a word that is used when outcome doesn't match intention and it causes us displeasure. --- authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hermandan0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip To paraphrase someone I respect a lot in a discussion about guru infallibility--some people say Maharishi doesn't make mistakes. Nonesense. If you you are in the relative there are mistakes. He makes a master's mistakes, that's all. With all the implications arising from that! Well put! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Masters and mistakes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hermandan0 no_reply@ wrote: snip To paraphrase someone I respect a lot in a discussion about guru infallibility--some people say Maharishi doesn't make mistakes. Nonesense. If you you are in the relative there are mistakes. He makes a master's mistakes, that's all. With all the implications arising from that! Well put! When MMY talks about making no mistakes, he's talking about doing things that slow your evolution towards enlightenment. Once you reach CC you make no more mistakes. That doesn't mean the person in CC can't miss the baseball when he/she swings at it. Also, as you progress beyond CC, your influence and perception of Self starts to expand and make no mistakes takes on a broader and broader significance, but STILL in the context of evolution towards enlightenment... ...and you STILL might miss that baseball, even in UC. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Masters and mistakes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hermandan0 no_reply@ wrote: snip To paraphrase someone I respect a lot in a discussion about guru infallibility--some people say Maharishi doesn't make mistakes. Nonesense. If you you are in the relative there are mistakes. He makes a master's mistakes, that's all. With all the implications arising from that! Well put! When MMY talks about making no mistakes, he's talking about doing things that slow your evolution towards enlightenment. Once you reach CC you make no more mistakes. That doesn't mean the person in CC can't miss the baseball when he/she swings at it. Also, as you progress beyond CC, your influence and perception of Self starts to expand and make no mistakes takes on a broader and broader significance, but STILL in the context of evolution towards enlightenment... ...and you STILL might miss that baseball, even in UC. About making mistakes, Like Peter asks, 'what's a mistake?'. The reason Maharishi has said that enlightened souls don't make mistakes, is that from the perspective of an enlightened person, there are no mistakes. There is only the eternal ever changing relative existence, supported by Reality, of which we as enlightened individuals gracefully are. From the perspective of unenlightened individuals, mistakes are abundant, by definition, and so even if they are looking at an enlightened person, they will see mistakes. So when Maharishi says the enlightened don't make mistakes, he is simply clarifying the definition of enlightenment, the Reality of enlightenment, and not as many have supposed, justifying his actions to the unenlightened. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Masters and mistakes
--- jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hermandan0 no_reply@ wrote: snip To paraphrase someone I respect a lot in a discussion about guru infallibility--some people say Maharishi doesn't make mistakes. Nonesense. If you you are in the relative there are mistakes. He makes a master's mistakes, that's all. With all the implications arising from that! Well put! When MMY talks about making no mistakes, he's talking about doing things that slow your evolution towards enlightenment. Once you reach CC you make no more mistakes. That doesn't mean the person in CC can't miss the baseball when he/she swings at it. Also, as you progress beyond CC, your influence and perception of Self starts to expand and make no mistakes takes on a broader and broader significance, but STILL in the context of evolution towards enlightenment... ...and you STILL might miss that baseball, even in UC. About making mistakes, Like Peter asks, 'what's a mistake?'. The reason Maharishi has said that enlightened souls don't make mistakes, is that from the perspective of an enlightened person, there are no mistakes. There is only the eternal ever changing relative existence, supported by Reality, of which we as enlightened individuals gracefully are. From the perspective of unenlightened individuals, mistakes are abundant, by definition, and so even if they are looking at an enlightened person, they will see mistakes. So when Maharishi says the enlightened don't make mistakes, he is simply clarifying the definition of enlightenment, the Reality of enlightenment, and not as many have supposed, justifying his actions to the unenlightened. I think you can see it as part of the useful fiction MMY created in developing a waking state model of Realization. We make lots of mistakes in waking state. And I think, in waking state, a mistake is an action that produces a result that we don't like. So we say, I made a mistake. It is interesting to note that all mistakes are retrospective. They arise from counter-factual thinking: I did that, but I should have done this. Although the option of this only arises after having done that. And when we did that it was not a mistake because there was no this as a behavioral option. This arises only after the result of the action is experienced. This is a fantasy of what we should have done when that doesn't work out to our liking. It can tie the mind up in knots. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Masters and mistakes
It's a valid question as to what constitutes a mistake. From a cosmic perspective, sure, there are no mistakes and the universe is unfolding as it should. That's true for everyone, enlightened or not. There's nothing to fix, nothing wrong with anything. All is according to natural law. Killing several tens of thousands of Iraquis or destroying the world in a nuclear war or by global warming, or creating heaven on earth are all in harmony with cosmic eveolution and natural law. The only difference between the enlightened and unenlightened is that the former know it. At the same time, this would mean there's no difference between MMY and anyone else in this regard. The mistakes you or I make are just as much non-mistakes in the grand scheme of things as MMY's, and MMY is no more exempt from making those non-mistakes than we are. I guess if you look at stated outcomes, actions undertaken, and results, you could decide if you thought it was a mistake. For exampe: Believing that thousands of adults with jobs and families and responsibilities are going to drop everything and go on a course to save the world one more time after you have systematically destroyed your organization's credibility would be a mistake. There are many more such examples that could be listed--- but we don't like to dwell on these things. ;) Cheers, HD --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hermandan0 no_reply@ wrote: snip To paraphrase someone I respect a lot in a discussion about guru infallibility--some people say Maharishi doesn't make mistakes. Nonesense. If you you are in the relative there are mistakes. He makes a master's mistakes, that's all. With all the implications arising from that! Well put! When MMY talks about making no mistakes, he's talking about doing things that slow your evolution towards enlightenment. Once you reach CC you make no more mistakes. That doesn't mean the person in CC can't miss the baseball when he/she swings at it. Also, as you progress beyond CC, your influence and perception of Self starts to expand and make no mistakes takes on a broader and broader significance, but STILL in the context of evolution towards enlightenment... ...and you STILL might miss that baseball, even in UC. About making mistakes, Like Peter asks, 'what's a mistake?'. The reason Maharishi has said that enlightened souls don't make mistakes, is that from the perspective of an enlightened person, there are no mistakes. There is only the eternal ever changing relative existence, supported by Reality, of which we as enlightened individuals gracefully are. From the perspective of unenlightened individuals, mistakes are abundant, by definition, and so even if they are looking at an enlightened person, they will see mistakes. So when Maharishi says the enlightened don't make mistakes, he is simply clarifying the definition of enlightenment, the Reality of enlightenment, and not as many have supposed, justifying his actions to the unenlightened. I think you can see it as part of the useful fiction MMY created in developing a waking state model of Realization. We make lots of mistakes in waking state. And I think, in waking state, a mistake is an action that produces a result that we don't like. So we say, I made a mistake. It is interesting to note that all mistakes are retrospective. They arise from counter-factual thinking: I did that, but I should have done this. Although the option of this only arises after having done that. And when we did that it was not a mistake because there was no this as a behavioral option. This arises only after the result of the action is experienced. This is a fantasy of what we should have done when that doesn't work out to our liking. It can tie the mind up in knots. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Masters and mistakes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hermandan0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's a valid question as to what constitutes a mistake. From a cosmic perspective, sure, there are no mistakes and the universe is unfolding as it should. That's true for everyone, enlightened or not. There's nothing to fix, nothing wrong with anything. All is according to natural law. Killing several tens of thousands of Iraquis or destroying the world in a nuclear war or by global warming, or creating heaven on earth are all in harmony with cosmic eveolution and natural law. The only difference between the enlightened and unenlightened is that the former know it. At the same time, this would mean there's no difference between MMY and anyone else in this regard. The mistakes you or I make are just as much non-mistakes in the grand scheme of things as MMY's, and MMY is no more exempt from making those non-mistakes than we are. I guess if you look at stated outcomes, actions undertaken, and results, you could decide if you thought it was a mistake. For exampe: Believing that thousands of adults with jobs and families and responsibilities are going to drop everything and go on a course to save the world one more time after you have systematically destroyed your organization's credibility would be a mistake. There are many more such examples that could be listed--- but we don't like to dwell on these things. ;) Cheers, HD Beautifully stated. The sad thing is thousands of adults with jobs and families and responsibilities would have dropped everything and gone on a course to save the world one more time, if the TMO's credibility had NOT been systematically destroyed. JohnY To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
