Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras
On Jul 17, 2011, at 2:42 AM, Bob Price wrote: Sal, we always miss you when you are away! Aw, thanks Bob! I say we take up a collection for anyone willing to pull off something like that. Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras
Hi Bhairitu. What is the JyotishList all about? Cheers Bill From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 11:42 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras On 07/14/2011 10:43 PM, Ravi Yogi wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitunoozguru@... wrote: You have opened a whole can of worms here. I've watched for years different tantra school argue over whether the beej mantras should have use the ng ending or the m ending. They have slightly different effects as far as resonance patterns go. And Indians given their nature will argue passionately over this, making the arguments on FFL look very wimpy (I'm sure Ravi will agree). Bhairitu - I have to plead ignorance in spite of being born a Brahmin, you and others seem to be more well versed and yeah lot of Indians for sure. However give me some Sanskrit slokas and I will chant it perfectly, comes naturally to me. I wasn't talking about the knowledge but how Indians love to argue. They really went at it on one forum over the ng and m endings. And just wander over to the JyotishList on Yahoo. There is often a brawl going on there. ;-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras
Sal, we always miss you when you are away! From: Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@lisco.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2011 9:49:58 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras On Jul 16, 2011, at 11:38 PM, raunchydog wrote: Checking doesn't mean checking the mantra. The purpose of checking is to give the right *experience* of meditation, which is effortless meditation. Other than point 23E, the only time an initiator explicitly checks the pronunciation of a mantra is individually with new meditators after the third night of checking. The wording in Maharishi's checking notes is brilliant and in this instance very delicate so as not to make a big deal out of it or risk disturbing the innocence and naturalness of meditation: And you remember your mantra? [Assumes everything is AOK, but whether yes or no, it doesn't matter.] Whisper softly what you feel it is. [This is so cool. You engage his quiet feeling not his noisy intellect by saying, What do you *think* it is?] If the mantra was wrong, you just reassure him it is all right now. Anything that creates doubt and confusion about meditation or pronunciation of the mantra is the antithesis of the checking procedure and effortless meditation. What would be even cooler would be if someone whispered ka-ching! or something similar as their mantra. :) And then just waited to see what the checker would do. Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras
Is there copyright by the TMO on the checking notes or anything else that has been discussed relating to mantras and the way they are used? Just wondering.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras
Who did you learn shaktipat from? The reason I ask is I did learn it from my tantra guru and it is very definitely a transference of energy. Something I think most people who have learned and performed would agree with. On 07/15/2011 08:00 PM, emptybill wrote: Only in my younger days. I concluded that people deserve something better than that. I found them wanting to attribute more Reality to me than I really could claim. It was an easy way to attribute too much to divine power or God's grace because someone had a (temporary) connection to the ocean of power. It's just too easy to forget that we are French kissing the Grim Reaper with every breath. …… --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitunoozguru@... wrote: On 07/14/2011 07:53 PM, emptybill wrote: This could be a duplicate Yahoo post or maybe not. Sorry but no troth with Yahoo. Bill, Contrary to what you might read, Shakti does not mean energy, as in electricity, but rather power. Empty, have you ever given shaktipat? To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: fairfieldlife-dig...@yahoogroups.com fairfieldlife-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: fairfieldlife-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras
On Jul 16, 2011, at 11:38 PM, raunchydog wrote: Checking doesn't mean checking the mantra. The purpose of checking is to give the right *experience* of meditation, which is effortless meditation. Other than point 23E, the only time an initiator explicitly checks the pronunciation of a mantra is individually with new meditators after the third night of checking. The wording in Maharishi's checking notes is brilliant and in this instance very delicate so as not to make a big deal out of it or risk disturbing the innocence and naturalness of meditation: And you remember your mantra? [Assumes everything is AOK, but whether yes or no, it doesn't matter.] Whisper softly what you feel it is. [This is so cool. You engage his quiet feeling not his noisy intellect by saying, What do you *think* it is?] If the mantra was wrong, you just reassure him it is all right now. Anything that creates doubt and confusion about meditation or pronunciation of the mantra is the antithesis of the checking procedure and effortless meditation. What would be even cooler would be if someone whispered ka-ching! or something similar as their mantra. :) And then just waited to see what the checker would do. Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras
On Jul 14, 2011, at 9:50 PM, sparaig wrote: One of the pitfalls, or one of the most important aspects of the difference between TM and what you think is proper? Name and form: namarupa.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras
Thank you so much Emptybill. I wonder if you or Richard might be able to answer the following two questions. 1) Do Hindus who adhere to the Advaita tradition consider Shankara a shakta? 2) Do we know whether GuruDev and MMY thought of their particular strand of Advaita as being fully within the shakti tradition? In short, would both men consider themselves, and Shankara, as shaktas? Cheers Bill From: emptybill emptyb...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 7:53 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras This could be a duplicate Yahoo post or maybe not. Sorry but no troth with Yahoo. Bill, Contrary to what you might read, Shakti does not mean energy, as in electricity, but rather power. Shakti(power) carries none of our modern connotations of a strictly mechanistic force but rather points to what Shakta-s (shakti initiates) see as the intelligence(s) that actualize the cosmos and enact its unmanifest design. You seem to recognize that Shaktivada (shakti-ism) is a doctrine (-vada) that is quite separate from Advaita. It is a doctrine asserting that there is a universal power that manifests the cosmos and that it's actualizations are various all-constituting intelligences. Since these are intelligences, rather than insentient material forces, the further insight is that they are accessible to other intelligences (like us) and that there is a methodology for doing just this. That methodology is called Tantra and includes not only formulae for contacting these intelligences but also specific etiquettes for creating, maintaining and enhancing this contact. These intelligences are deva-s/devi-s … the numinous presences that constitute and animate our body, along with our sense powers, mental operations and the functions of consciousness (chitta). All of these internal deva-s/devi-s are considered micro-processes of macro-intelligences that are massively awake and actively cognizant. They are the internal-external values that order, organize and interconnect the various subjective/objective strata of the universe. This, however, does not include Awareness (chit) which is a reality eulogized as Shiva, the auspicious One, the Presence-Awareness-Felicity that is the essence of all true identity. Sounds abstract but that's the cliff notes version for dummies like me. You may find it a mere iteration of what you already know but it never hurts of hear it again. Now I think I'll go have a beer.…… --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, William Parkinson ameradian2@... wrote: Richard and Emptybill: Given my rudimentary knowledge at this point I am wondering if the both of you can clarify something. I went and looked up on Wikipedia about Sri Vidya. I thought that the basic shakti doctrine was as follows: Shiva is the static consciousness that pervades all things, while shakti represents (envisioned in feminine form) the dynamic form of consciousness. In essence, they have divided up the notion of Brahman. One is pure consciousness, static in existence, while the other is pure consciousness in its changeable phenomenal form? I thought all these divine goddesses were simply a manifestation of shakti. Is that not correct? Cheers Bill Â
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras
Thank you so much Richard. I am learning a great deal from you and a number of other people on the forum. I asked both you, and Emptybill, two questions over on the e-mail I sent from Emptybill's reply. If you have the time please read it and see if you can cast some light on those two questions. Thank you again! Cheers Bill From: richardjwilliamstexas willy...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 8:27 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras William Parkinson: Shiva is the static consciousness that pervades all things, while shakti represents (envisioned in feminine form) the dynamic form of consciousness... The answer lies in the relationship of the Sri Vidya tradition and Kashmere Saivism. In the Shankaracharya tradition, Shankara was born at Kaladi, where he was a sort of child prodigy linguist, at an early age. Shankara went to study with Gaudapada, and then subsequently travelled to Kashi, and then to the Upper Kashi, where he founded the Jyotir Math and composed his commentary on 'Vedanta Sutra' and 'Bhagavad Gita'. Shankara then traveled to Kashmere where he got the Sri Yantra and took it to Karnataka where he placed it on the altar and called the place Sringeri, after the Shakti. It was at Sringeri that Shankara composed the 'Ode to the South Facing Form' and the 'Saundarylahari'. According to Theos Bernard, Kashmere Saivism teaches that conciousness alternates between two phases, rest and action. You can easily see the relation to TM practice when you consider that this is almost exactly what MMY said at Squaw Valley! The phase of transcendental rest is called 'Pralaya' in Sanskrit, which has no first beginning, therefore no primal cause. The world of matter is only another form of conciousness. The Vedanta doctrine contends that there is only one ultimate reality which never changes; therefore the manifest world is an 'appearance' only, Maya. Kashmere Saivism contends that there is only one reality, but it has *two aspects*. The manifestation, Maya, is real. This is based on the argument that the effect cannot be different from its cause. However, according to the Siva Sutra, human logic can never construct an unassailable monism; the final proof can be had only by the experience of yogic samadhi, attained through mantric meditation. Centering - An excerpt from the 'Bhairava Tantra', translated by Swami by Laksmanjoo: 7. Devi, imagine the Sanskrit letters in these honey-filled foci of awareness, first as letters, then more subtly as sounds, then as most subtle feeling. Then, leaving them aside, be free. 14. Bathe in the center of sound, as in the continuous sound of a waterfall. Or, by putting fingers in ears, hear the sound of sounds. 19. Intone a sound audibly, then less and less audible as feeling deepens into this silent harmony. Read more: http://www.rwilliams.us/archives/centering.htm
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras
Hi Rob. What I found interesting in the pronunciation was simply this: books on mantra meditation that I have state very emphatically that the mantra must be pronounced absolutely clearly and correctly. I assume because they believe that the mantra is some sort of sonic representation, if not sonic manifestation, of the deity. Yet in TM we are told the mantra might will change as we use it. And the mantra should ideally be a faint thought--not something clear and strong in our minds.This was part of my interest in this varient ways of saying the mantras. Cheers Bill From: Robert babajii...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 9:29 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, William Parkinson ameradian2@ wrote: Nab, I do know how to pronounce my mantra, at least as it was told to me. But what is here is different. Excuse my curiosity Cheers Bill PS- My training was, after all, 11 years ago!! Stop this nonsense. Either you listen to what the teacher says, or you choose to do someting else. Simple. Many people believe that they MUST start thinking their mantra exactly the same way every time. I think MY decided that if they didn't intuit from what they were told that this was a bit anal, that it was counter-productive to make the hints any stronger than they already are. But, I'll just say that after nearly 40 years of practicing TM, it takes quite a bit of effort sometimes to remember exactly how my mantra was pronounced when I was given it. Oh wait, TM is effortless... Did MMY lie or is there something to be learned from the realization that attempting to remember a specific pronunciation from 38 years ago is often extremely difficult? L There is no need to remember the mantra with a specific pronunciation...that's not it at all...allow it to unfold naturally, and if you can't remember specific prounciation, don't worry about it... A mantra is just a vehicle for transcending thought... We pick up the mantra to transcend the mantra... The objective of TM is to become familiar with the process of transcending thought, and the experience of pure consciousness when thought is transcended... That's all there is to it; it's not necessary to complicate the procedure in any way... Keep it as simple as possible... TM teaches how to be 'effortless'...so when you find that you are sliding into effort, just let go, and be effortless... R.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of William Parkinson Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 11:48 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras Hi Rob. What I found interesting in the pronunciation was simply this: books on mantra meditation that I have state very emphatically that the mantra must be pronounced absolutely clearly and correctly. I assume because they believe that the mantra is some sort of sonic representation, if not sonic manifestation, of the deity. Yet in TM we are told the mantra might will change as we use it. And the mantra should ideally be a faint thought--not something clear and strong in our minds.This was part of my interest in this varient ways of saying the mantras. The TM instructions explicit advise NOT trying to think or pronounce the mantra clearly: “Mental repetition is not a clear pronunciation; just a faint idea.”
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras
Exactly Rick. Which is not what some mantra works suggest. That is what I think is interesting. If these mantras are the 'sonic representations' of the deity, one would think they should be spoken, or thought inside, clearly and correctly. If that is so, then what are we to make of our TM way of not thinking it but faintly? What did MMY think of these mantras? Are they symbolic, or merely tools to allow us to go inside? Cheers Bill From: Rick Archer r...@searchsummit.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 10:32 AM Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras From:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of William Parkinson Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 11:48 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras Hi Rob. What I found interesting in the pronunciation was simply this: books on mantra meditation that I have state very emphatically that the mantra must be pronounced absolutely clearly and correctly. I assume because they believe that the mantra is some sort of sonic representation, if not sonic manifestation, of the deity. Yet in TM we are told the mantra might will change as we use it. And the mantra should ideally be a faint thought--not something clear and strong in our minds.This was part of my interest in this varient ways of saying the mantras. The TM instructions explicit advise NOT trying to think or pronounce the mantra clearly: “Mental repetition is not a clear pronunciation; just a faint idea.”
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras
On 07/14/2011 10:43 PM, Ravi Yogi wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitunoozguru@... wrote: You have opened a whole can of worms here. I've watched for years different tantra school argue over whether the beej mantras should have use the ng ending or the m ending. They have slightly different effects as far as resonance patterns go. And Indians given their nature will argue passionately over this, making the arguments on FFL look very wimpy (I'm sure Ravi will agree). Bhairitu - I have to plead ignorance in spite of being born a Brahmin, you and others seem to be more well versed and yeah lot of Indians for sure. However give me some Sanskrit slokas and I will chant it perfectly, comes naturally to me. I wasn't talking about the knowledge but how Indians love to argue. They really went at it on one forum over the ng and m endings. And just wander over to the JyotishList on Yahoo. There is often a brawl going on there. ;-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras
On 07/14/2011 07:53 PM, emptybill wrote: This could be a duplicate Yahoo post or maybe not. Sorry but no troth with Yahoo. Bill, Contrary to what you might read, Shakti does not mean energy, as in electricity, but rather power. Empty, have you ever given shaktipat?
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of William Parkinson Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 1:22 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras Exactly Rick. Which is not what some mantra works suggest. That is what I think is interesting. If these mantras are the 'sonic representations' of the deity, one would think they should be spoken, or thought inside, clearly and correctly. If that is so, then what are we to make of our TM way of not thinking it but faintly? What did MMY think of these mantras? Are they symbolic, or merely tools to allow us to go inside? Cheers Bill Maharishi felt (old Rishikesh TTC tape I heard) that the mantras were a way to attune oneself to the deity, and that that was accomplished by transcending with them, not remaining on the gross level. From: Rick Archer r...@searchsummit.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 10:32 AM Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of William Parkinson Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 11:48 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras Hi Rob. What I found interesting in the pronunciation was simply this: books on mantra meditation that I have state very emphatically that the mantra must be pronounced absolutely clearly and correctly. I assume because they believe that the mantra is some sort of sonic representation, if not sonic manifestation, of the deity. Yet in TM we are told the mantra might will change as we use it. And the mantra should ideally be a faint thought--not something clear and strong in our minds.This was part of my interest in this varient ways of saying the mantras. The TM instructions explicit advise NOT trying to think or pronounce the mantra clearly: “Mental repetition is not a clear pronunciation; just a faint idea.” _ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1516/3766 - Release Date: 07/15/11
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras
Nab, I do know how to pronounce my mantra, at least as it was told to me. But what is here is different. Excuse my curiosity Cheers Bill PS- My training was, after all, 11 years ago!! From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 12:50 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, William Parkinson ameradian2@... wrote:  I found this webpage and it has a different way to pronounce the mantra I was taught. Those of you who were teachers, is this way correct? For example, hearim (as in 'hear') instead of herim (as in 'her'). Is this list even valid? Thx for any information anyone might have! Cheers Bill   You've meditated what, 6 months and already mixed up ? That's what you get when you don't pay attention to what the TM-Teacher tells you. Good luck to you, but please have a checking as soon as possible !
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras
Bill, Many thanks for your posts. Have you studied much about the early Christian church (probably a silly question), say the crucifixion to AD 337? We had an excellent series of exchanges started before Robin retired and I would enjoy a few more. I wouldn't worry too much about the Nabster, he suffers from what is fondly referred to on FFL as PAS (post abduction syndrome). He generously shares a lot of images of crop circles. The current thinking is that he may have been on the ship that made most of them. From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 12:50:31 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, William Parkinson ameradian2@... wrote:  I found this webpage and it has a different way to pronounce the mantra I was taught. Those of you who were teachers, is this way correct? For example, hearim (as in 'hear') instead of herim (as in 'her'). Is this list even valid? Thx for any information anyone might have! Cheers Bill   You've meditated what, 6 months and already mixed up ? That's what you get when you don't pay attention to what the TM-Teacher tells you. Good luck to you, but please have a checking as soon as possible !
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras
On Jul 14, 2011, at 4:08 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, William Parkinson ameradian2@... wrote:  I found this webpage and it has a different way to pronounce the mantra I was taught. Those of you who were teachers, is this way correct? For example, hearim (as in 'hear') instead of herim (as in 'her'). Is this list even valid? Thx for any information anyone might have! Sigh, are you SURE you have learned TM? Have you ever been checked? Starting to think that WIlliam is a troll... One POV worth considering is that since TM does not generally oppose the mantra changing in sound or quality or speed, etc., ones mantra could change and they would not remember the original sound they were given, but the morphed version. I know mine morphed so that I had to be re-told it on checking several times... It's one of the pitfalls of the technique and it's instruction, esp. since initiators do not generally know Sanskrit and proper Sanskrit or Dakini language pronunciations. One thing William could consider is visiting a saint like Amma and ask for your full mantra. You could also be initiated into your yantra if you so desired.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras
On Jul 14, 2011, at 4:21 PM, sparaig wrote: Oh wait, TM is effortless... Did MMY lie or is there something to be learned from the realization that attempting to remember a specific pronunciation from 38 years ago is often extremely difficult? If you knew basic Sanskrit pronunciation (very fun and easy to learn) and how your mantra was spelt, you'd never forget. One fun practice is writing your bija in mantric language (which is a variant of Devanagari).
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras
On Jul 14, 2011, at 4:34 PM, Yifu wrote: below...vault of the mouth. Nope - as stated or implied by others; those people excessively concerned about authentic pronunciation apparently don't have a clue about TM and probably were not initiated into it. Then they don't understand namarupa, name-and-form.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras
Yes I was taught and taught well (at least I thought so) by a thoughtful and helpful TM teacher in Vancouver B.C. I ask only as academic matter; this is different that what I was taught. Cheers Bill From: sparaig lengli...@cox.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 1:08 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, William Parkinson ameradian2@... wrote:  I found this webpage and it has a different way to pronounce the mantra I was taught. Those of you who were teachers, is this way correct? For example, hearim (as in 'hear') instead of herim (as in 'her'). Is this list even valid? Thx for any information anyone might have! Sigh, are you SURE you have learned TM? Have you ever been checked? Starting to think that WIlliam is a troll... L.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras
Thank you for your concern Nab. Now does anyone have anything constructive to say? Cheers Bill From: sparaig lengli...@cox.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 1:21 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, William Parkinson ameradian2@ wrote: Nab, I do know how to pronounce my mantra, at least as it was told to me. But what is here is different. Excuse my curiosity Cheers Bill PS- My training was, after all, 11 years ago!! Stop this nonsense. Either you listen to what the teacher says, or you choose to do someting else. Simple. Many people believe that they MUST start thinking their mantra exactly the same way every time. I think MY decided that if they didn't intuit from what they were told that this was a bit anal, that it was counter-productive to make the hints any stronger than they already are. But, I'll just say that after nearly 40 years of practicing TM, it takes quite a bit of effort sometimes to remember exactly how my mantra was pronounced when I was given it. Oh wait, TM is effortless... Did MMY lie or is there something to be learned from the realization that attempting to remember a specific pronunciation from 38 years ago is often extremely difficult? L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras
Bob, there are some colorful people involved with Eastern traditions, to be sure. In fact the person with that website thinks of himself as a 21rst Century maharishi. It is fine with me if Nab wants to be testy. I will reply in a collegial fashion, which is what I am used to. I wish Nab only the best. And by the way, thank you for your continued kindness!! For me personally, that is the only metric of spiritual development that really means anything to me. Cheers Bill From: Bob Price bobpri...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 1:21 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras Bill, Many thanks for your posts. Have you studied much about the early Christian church (probably a silly question), say the crucifixion to AD 337? We had an excellent series of exchanges started before Robin retired and I would enjoy a few more. I wouldn't worry too much about the Nabster, he suffers from what is fondly referred to on FFL as PAS (post abduction syndrome). He generously shares a lot of images of crop circles. The current thinking is that he may have been on the ship that made most of them. From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 12:50:31 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, William Parkinson ameradian2@... wrote:  I found this webpage and it has a different way to pronounce the mantra I was taught. Those of you who were teachers, is this way correct? For example, hearim (as in 'hear') instead of herim (as in 'her'). Is this list even valid? Thx for any information anyone might have! Cheers Bill   You've meditated what, 6 months and already mixed up ? That's what you get when you don't pay attention to what the TM-Teacher tells you. Good luck to you, but please have a checking as soon as possible !
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras
I was taught and still have my receipt. Goodness!! I ask as a curiosity. Is it not possible to discuss these issues rationally and in a collegial fashion? Cheers Bill From: Yifu yifux...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 1:34 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras below...vault of the mouth. Nope - as stated or implied by others; those people excessively concerned about authentic pronunciation apparently don't have a clue about TM and probably were not initiated into it. http://skeletonart.com/Detailed/739.html --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Jul 14, 2011, at 3:28 PM, William Parkinson wrote: I found this webpage and it has a different way to pronounce the mantra I was taught. Those of you who were teachers, is this way correct? For example, hearim (as in 'hear') instead of herim (as in 'her'). Is this list even valid? Thx for any information anyone might have! Honestly, while this is interesting, the best way is to be instructed in the Sanskrit alphabet's proper pronunciation and where those sounds occur in the mouth. Then learn the mantras according to the proper Sanskrit pronunciation and where they occur in the vault of the the mouth.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras
Thank you Nab. I am in contact with the local teacher here and did get checked when I started again. (Annie Skipper in Kirkland WA.) Bear in mind Nab that I meditate only to improve myself. I am not as serious as some have been. So for me, if I am not saying it correct, that is ok. It is working and much faster than I thought. I assumed it might take three or four years to even have to worry about the issue of cosmic consciousness and yet here I am going into the fifth month and it's already quite palpable, which is exactly why I consulted this forum. I thought I better find out right here and now about its impact on sleep. But thank you for your concern, I appreciate it. Cheers Bill From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 2:04 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, William Parkinson ameradian2@... wrote: Thank you for your concern Nab. Now does anyone have anything constructive to say? Cheers Bill Only glad to help :-) But if you disregard my constructive advice I can say with certaincy that you will travel further into the dead-end-road you have started leading nowhere. I can assure you that you will not receive a more constructive advise on this forum than having a checking the sooner the better.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras
Emptybill, you have hit on it exactly! This was another point of interest. The author of the article claims that Maharishi changed the mantras, but didn't really state why, other than to make them easier. You have framed this change within the context of making it more palatable to a Western audience. This is a very rational and reasonable proposition. People on FFL need to understand something. Since I have returned to TM, people consistently ask me about it. And I want to be as accurate as I can in everything I tell them. I deeply appreciate you pointing this out to me. It certainly has the ring of truth! Cheers Bill From: emptybill emptyb...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 2:18 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras Bill Yours is a natural question for anyone trying to understand what a meditation mantra actually is. However you have cited only one attempt to explain how to produce the sounds of these bija mantra-s. Even if you cited many different people, without knowing how to pronounce Sanskrit this topic will remain somewhat confusing to you. In the end you will still be left positioned exactly where you are now – dependent upon someone else to tell you how they pronounce it themselves or else the old reduction to my guru sez. Be aware that Maharishi worked out a way to impart bija mantras to Westerners who are not used to pronouncing semi-vowels when conjoined with consonants. Also be aware that much of these Web attempts you are seeing are nothing but the guesses of the posters and that some of them are actually quite wrong. This is another illustration of why classically trained pandits require so many years of specialized training before becoming proficient. Additionally, be aware that the anusvara endings (-n, -ng, -m) of Sanskrit words are pronounced according to their placement in the standard five oral articulations of human speech sounds in Sanskrit. Not all of these exist in English. And to make it even more confusing, understand that the pandits in differing parts of India pronounce some of these sounds in variant ways. As an ending note, I'll repeat a previous post of mine: All modern Western scholars of Shankara or Advaita firmly reject the claim that Adi-Shankara was the author of either Ananda-Larari or Saundarya-Lahari. Although some devotional Advaitin-s may praise these texts/songs, they are still Shakta (goddess) literature, which is non-dualist in orientation. However, Adaivtin-s can perform any legitimate practice as long as he/she maintains the non-dual view. That includes the Tantric practices of Shri Vidya and Shri Chakra, nowfound by amalgamation among many advaitins.……… --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, William Parkinson ameradian2@... wrote: I was taught and still have my receipt. Goodness!! I ask as a curiosity. Is it not possible to discuss these issues rationally and in a collegial fashion? Cheers Bill From: Yifu yifuxero@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 1:34 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras  below...vault of the mouth. Nope - as stated or implied by others; those people excessively concerned about authentic pronunciation apparently don't have a clue about TM and probably were not initiated into it. http://skeletonart.com/Detailed/739.html --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Jul 14, 2011, at 3:28 PM, William Parkinson wrote: I found this webpage and it has a different way to pronounce the mantra I was taught. Those of you who were teachers, is this way correct? For example, hearim (as in 'hear') instead of herim (as in 'her'). Is this list even valid? Thx for any information anyone might have! Honestly, while this is interesting, the best way is to be instructed in the Sanskrit alphabet's proper pronunciation and where those sounds occur in the mouth. Then learn the mantras according to the proper Sanskrit pronunciation and where they occur in the vault of the the mouth.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras
LOL thank you JP. When I first saw the list I noticed he added European versions. I thought maybe he was European and that this was simply his way of pronouncing it. But on his website he claims to be an American doctor, who in his own estimation is a 21st-century Maharishi. I find it all very fascinating, even if it is sometimes confusing to me! Cheers Bill From: jpgillam jpgil...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 2:22 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras Bill, the information you cite differs from what I learned on my TM teacher training course. I suggest you have this conversation with your TM teacher. You've seen what a runaround you get here. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, William Parkinson ameradian2@... wrote:  I found this webpage and it has a different way to pronounce the mantra I was taught. Those of you who were teachers, is this way correct? For example, hearim (as in 'hear') instead of herim (as in 'her'). Is this list even valid? Thx for any information anyone might have! Cheers Bill
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras
Richard and Emptybill: Given my rudimentary knowledge at this point I am wondering if the both of you can clarify something. I went and looked up on Wikipedia about Sri Vidya. I thought that the basic shakti doctrine was as follows: Shiva is the static consciousness that pervades all things, while shakti represents (envisioned in feminine form) the dynamic form of consciousness. In essence, they have divided up the notion of Brahman. One is pure consciousness, static in existence, while the other is pure consciousness in its changeable phenomenal form? I thought all these divine goddesses were simply a manifestation of shakti. Is that not correct? Cheers Bill From: richardjwilliamstexas willy...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 3:04 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras emptybill: All modern Western scholars of Shankara or Advaita firmly reject the claim that Adi-Shankara was the author of either Ananda-Larari or Saundarya-Lahari. Maybe so, but as TMers we are not concerned with what most Western scholars think about Shankara. It is a fact that all the Dasanami Sannyasins worship the Sri Vidya and accept the Adi Shankara as the author of the Saundarylahri. That's why at all the Ammnya Mathas founded by Shankara you will find the Sri Chakra ensconced on the mandir. Our Guru Dev was a Sri Vidya adherent and his master, Swami Krishnaanada was a Sri Vidya practitioner. So, we TMers have a direct connection to the Sringeri Matha, through Brahmananda Saraswati. Bija 'mantras', by definition, have no semantic meaning - that's why they're called 'mantras' instead of being called 'words'. If the bijas were Sanskrit words, there would be no need for a definition of them, since their meaning would be obvious to anyone who could read a Sanskrit lexicon. So, let's review: In basic TM you get the single seed sound (bija) and later the fertilizer; and you get the simple set of instructions for the correct angle to dive. So, it has now been established that at least two of the most sacred bija-mantras, out of the fifteen, contained in the Saundaryalahari, are in fact, TM bija-mantras. Read more: Subject: Guru Dev and Mantrayana Author: Willytex Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental Date: December 17, 2003 http://tinyurl.com/ykp6rhs On the origin of the TM bija mantras: Bija mantras issued by TM are ''Sri Vidya'' bija mantras. To be fair, I won't go into what they are, but if one listens to all TM mantras, except for 2, they are 2 or 3 syllable, and this is a very important component of the technique... Subject: Re: Guru Dev and Sri Vidya Author: Billy Smith Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental Date: April 22, 2003 http://tinyurl.com/ye8my2 You are getting warmer when it comes to understanding TM's origins with your posts regarding the Shankaracharya tradition and its practice of Srividya... Subject: Re: TM: Siva Sutra Author: James Duffy Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental, alt.yoga, alt.meditation Date: September 21, 2003 http://tinyurl.com/yjwa2yr
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras
L., I looked again and there was the 'Yo William' one and another about the mission of Maharishi. I must have missed one. Maybe I deleted it by accident. Ther are none with any links!! Cheers Bill From: sparaig lengli...@cox.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 1:21 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, William Parkinson ameradian2@ wrote: Nab, I do know how to pronounce my mantra, at least as it was told to me. But what is here is different. Excuse my curiosity Cheers Bill PS- My training was, after all, 11 years ago!! Stop this nonsense. Either you listen to what the teacher says, or you choose to do someting else. Simple. Many people believe that they MUST start thinking their mantra exactly the same way every time. I think MY decided that if they didn't intuit from what they were told that this was a bit anal, that it was counter-productive to make the hints any stronger than they already are. But, I'll just say that after nearly 40 years of practicing TM, it takes quite a bit of effort sometimes to remember exactly how my mantra was pronounced when I was given it. Oh wait, TM is effortless... Did MMY lie or is there something to be learned from the realization that attempting to remember a specific pronunciation from 38 years ago is often extremely difficult? L
