Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Peak Oil
In a message dated 7/5/06 10:53:02 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED].. wrote:>> I don't think coal will ever replace oil. Everybody knows the effect coal > had in creating acid rain and deforestation around the world. However it will > still be used at current levels and maybe a little higher or at least until > there is a technology to burn significantly cleaner.>The NY times article that Bob linked to,http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/05/business/05coalfuel.htmlI mainly about turning coal into liquid and gaseous fuels. Not burning it directly.I think most of the acid rain is caused by sulferous emmissions. The sulfer can be recovered in the processes being used to turn coal into automotive and heating fuel and sold for other uses. Appearantly, from the article they can currently produce diesel fuel from coal at 1/4 the cost of fuel from petroleum. That's why business is starting to do it. They are even using old fertilizer plants to do it. Natural gas is running out so the gas-to-fertilizer plants are becoming non-cost effective. They are being turned into coal liquification plants without excessive modification. Coal gasification is also an old technology. They used to have a plant right here in Fairfield. Amazing what economic factors can do in the development of energy. And the United States has enormous coal reserves. Couple that with other promising technologies in the pipe line, I think there is a brighter day ahead. All we have to do is make industry aware of the desire for cleaner and more efficient energy sources. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Peak Oil
I don't think coal will ever replace oil. Everybody knows the effect coal had in creating acid rain and deforestation around the world. However it will still be used at current levels and maybe a little higher or at least until there is a technology to burn significantly cleaner. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Peak Oil
On Jul 5, 2006, at 8:45 AM, Michael Murphy wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/05/business/05coalfuel.html "The coal in the ground in Illinois alone has more energy than all the oil in Saudi Arabia. The technology to turn that coal into fuel for cars, homes and factories is proven. And at current prices, that process could be at the vanguard of a big, new industry." It's interesting to see that this is being taken seriously by the commercial sector. It will increase pollution most likely, but at least it give us some options. My guess is that when push comes to shovel and there is a choice between compromising the american life style and compromising the atmosphere, our current government will choose to maintain our wasteful life style. What they (the coal industry) will do I suspect is promote research which will show that particulate matter released into the atmosphere from coal burning actually helps mitigate the Greenhouse Effect. Therefore this will not only be a viable interim solution, it will help reverse global warming till "cleaner" solutions are in place and viable. The new WMD. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Peak Oil
On Jul 4, 2006, at 10:35 PM, new.morning wrote: Scientists believe far more wierd ass things than you or I. Well at least me. :) String theory, quantum theory, relativity theory. The latter two because they have been extraodianrily successful in predicting what the model says should happen. No matter how wierd-ass the apparent processes and "elements" involved. No this research isn't widely public, but then again there aren't many people interested in the use of orgone devices on children in utero and during development... Um yeah. Do any reasons why ocur to you? Certainly! Yea, I bet they are doozies. Haliburton, the Tri-Lateral Commission and the pilot of the plane that didn't crash into the Pentagon are involved, right? IIRC the work we were seeing was from field notes and some preliminary papers from nurses and other physicians. One I remember was where they were taking devices which Reich believed could amplify and direct orgone in a particular direction, a kind of prana ray gun (LOL). In these initial notes, they would direct a stream of prana at the fetus, and in every case the unborn child would reposition itself to come closer to the stream of prana. I think one of the reasons material like this was released (ahead of the 2008 unsealing) by Reich's literary executor was so researchers *would* work on duplicating the research and/or take the implications of such research further. Given that some of the most prominent Orgonomists were at this conference, I'd be surprised if that wasn't already the case (this was in the late 80's). A lot of the material was on child development and very preliminary research, but if it panned out would have serious implications for the future. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Peak Oil, Orgone and Reich
On Jul 4, 2006, at 10:25 PM, new.morning wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: Check out: http://www.orgonomy.org/ Ok, I will. Mission accomplished. "Using Reich's astrophysical discoveries as a basis, it is possible to elucidate the relationships between different celestial motions. These relationships, though obvious once discovered, have eluded centuries of mechanistic research. In attempting to develop Reich's conclusion that "the equatorial orgone envelope provides the concrete physical mover of the planets," [1:81] it is shown that the directions of rotation of the sun and each of the nine planets are in simple functional relations to the galactic plane. This constitutes an advance over the mechanistic view, wherein there is no relationship whatsoever between the orientations of the planets relative to each other and no relationship between the directions of planetary rotation and other realms of celestial motion." So the empirical data, predictions, research, peer-reviewed publications, debate in journals, etc for this speculative theory is where?I'd write them and ask if that type of thing truly interests you. Pretty interesting quote, thanks. I assume the rest of the site is of this same caliber - grand speculations with no substance (as in research to back up (or disprove) the speculations. There's been a lot of on-going research but I'm only familiar with some of it. If you're really interested my guess would be the Journal of Orgonomy. This isn't the TM movement so I don't see these people really that interested in using this to sell something or get seen in other journals. A lot of research seemed geared towards repeating Reich's original experiments. From what I've heard it is all been duplicated and the college even teaches a lab course where you duplicate important orgone experiments. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Peak Oil, Orgone and Reich
On Jul 4, 2006, at 10:19 PM, new.morning wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Check out: http://www.orgonomy.org/ Ok, I will. On Jul 4, 2006, at 9:48 PM, new.morning wrote: I have been hearing of Reich for 35 years. Have yet to see much of substance. There a huge amount of material out there and a lot online. Huge amount yes. Of substance -- not that I have seen. Though if quoting him gets one laid, I guess thats of substance. I would recommend reading his son's story _Book of Dreams_ as an intro to the guy, or (since that is hard to find) read Orson Bean's (yes the guy who used to be on Truth or Consequences a lot) _Me and Orgone_ (I can email a copy of it I found) which is hilarious and informative on someone who underwent Orgonomic treatment. If you *really* want to know everything about the guy, then read _Fury on Earth: A Biography of Wilhelm Reich_ by Myron R. Sharaf.One of course could also look at the numerous other treatments Reich's work spawned: bioenergetics, holotropic breath work, Rolfing, etc. It's fairly easy to find someone to Rolf you and still inexpensive. And unlike Orgonomic treatment, it's fairly quick--ten sessions or so. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Peak Oil
On Jul 4, 2006, at 10:16 PM, new.morning wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: As you know, most scientists do not accept the existence of a universal life energy! um a priori? Or because no credible research on such has been repeated presented peer-reviewed, published, debated and refined. Scientists believe far more wierd ass things than you or I. Well at least me. :) String theory, quantum theory, relativity theory. The latter two because they have been extraodianrily successful in predicting what the model says should happen. No matter how wierd-ass the apparent processes and "elements" involved. No this research isn't widely public, but then again there aren't many people interested in the use of orgone devices on children in utero and during development... Um yeah. Do any reasons why ocur to you? Do you realize you are sending out your messages in triplicate? (or at least that's how they're arriving). __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Peak Oil
On Jul 4, 2006, at 10:16 PM, new.morning wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: As you know, most scientists do not accept the existence of a universal life energy! um a priori? Or because no credible research on such has been repeated presented peer-reviewed, published, debated and refined.I guess that depends who you ask. The general consensus in scientific circles for years has been to scoff at it. Scientists believe far more wierd ass things than you or I. Well at least me. :) String theory, quantum theory, relativity theory. The latter two because they have been extraodianrily successful in predicting what the model says should happen. No matter how wierd-ass the apparent processes and "elements" involved. No this research isn't widely public, but then again there aren't many people interested in the use of orgone devices on children in utero and during development... Um yeah. Do any reasons why ocur to you? Certainly! __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Peak Oil
On Jul 4, 2006, at 9:15 PM, new.morning wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>
>
>> The idea that it's hard or "impossible to bootstrap new technologies
>> into large scale production" IMO is a lie. It's a lie perpetutated by
>> corporatism--and of course inspired by energy corps and their Czars.
>> In WW II when Germany was landloacked from oil resources they
>> completely turned over their economy and developed a "car of the
>> people", the "Volkswagen" and it ran on indigenous fuels. The
>> original diesel engine was designed to run on peanut oil. Let's face
>> it, the corporations that run our government have made sure these
>> technologies never make it to the market.
>
> And which technologies are these? And which corporations? Haliburton
> undoubtably is in there. And these technologies can ONLY be developed
> by large corps that are "running the govt" and not small companies --
> where most innovations / patents, comes from, venture capital is
> deployed, or start-ups from large corp runaways, etc?
It seems to me the more grassroots movement that is bringing these
technologies to market are smaller, but face strong opposition from
oil companies.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/05/04/60minutes/main1588659.shtml?
source=RSS&attr=60Minutes_1588659?CMP=ILC-SearchStories
Brazil made the decision years ago to be oil dependent, what are the
factors that have prevented that from occurring here?
>
>
>> A grassroots economy handed
>> over to non-factory farmers
>
> Most new sectors are created by innovators and entrepreneurs, not
> "handed over' by anyone.
See the above article/video.
>
>> and rendering energy policy back to the
>> people
>
> One good election could do wonders, though from Carter to Clinton,
> they have miffed huge opportunities in energy policy
Depending on who sways votes or the voting machines...
>
>> is totally untenable to our current political situation. A
>> government OF the people and BY the people? Get real.
>
> Vote for the 15 points: IRV, no jerrymandering, public funding of pres
> and congress, flat tax, etc and the people will begin to re-own the
> gov't. Otherwise, jefferson's expectation a revolution (new
> consitution, new govt) every 20-50 years, may become even riper.
I'm hoping.
>
>> Instead the solution has been more covert: develop genetically
>> engineered strains of food which will be the only foods sustainable
>> in the new climate. It's the only thing farmers will be able to use.
>
> Hardly a believable premise as an absolute ("the only").
A deliberate exaggeration of a nightmare future.
> Which
> corporations specifically doing this? Is it disclosed in their
> quarterly 10-Q's -- in which public companies are required to disclose
> all relevant information regarding their financial positions and
> prospects.
LOL. Yeah, right.
How did the genetically engineered food labeling act got through
congress so quietly?
Gremlins! That's it!
>
>> Create overt aviation fuel programs which render contrails and
>> atmospheric, high altitude haze over large areas of the planet to
>> help shunt some solar radiation back out into space.
>
> Wow. This is happening? And escaped the notice of most climate
> scientists?
http://www.willthomas.net/Chemtrails/Articles/
Chemtrails_In_US_Schools.htm
>
>> This technology
>> and it's usage is already being quietly taught to our children in the
>> public school system.
>
> Um, in which course is that?
>
>> But the real danger is in what we don't know.
>
> Or perhaps for some, a greater danger is in the bogus things they
> think they know.
>
>> As many mystical
>> traditions attest, there is a bioenergetic component to all sentient
>> life which has escaped the measurements of the priests scientific
>> materialism. It's called prana. When an early prana scientist,
>> Wilhelm Reich, sent his research to the Feds, he had his books burned
>> and he was thrown into prison (where he died).
>
> Not the version I remember.
>
>> Never mind the motor
>> which ran on free "orgone" energy (as he termed it) which disappeared
>> at the same time.
>
> Free as in "water", for example. Water is free, hydro power is not.
Well, I saw an old video. It required an initial start from
electricity and then supposedly ran entirely on "orgone".
>
> And who besides Reich saw this machine?
His son, Peter, numerous others. IIRC it's mentioned in Peter's _Book
of Dreams_.
>
>> Never mind his research which showed
>> desertification was linked to prana depletion.
>
>
> Ok, I won't mind some reserch which is not detailed as to its
> credibility and worth.
It's fairly detailed and has been followed up by geologists.
Interesting stuff. I was extremely skeptical as well. Interesting if
it pans out.
>
>> Don't even speak of
>> his research on human beings, it's probably still illegal to use the
>> devices he created.
>
> OK. Mums the word.
>
>
>> Fortunately his remaining works were
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Peak Oil
On Jul 4, 2006, at 7:41 PM, Michael Murphy wrote: Peak oil theory is based on the possibly flawed theory that world oil reserves are "fixed" when there are some recent ideas in geology that talk of crude oil as being a kind of natural exudate of the earth. In other words the planet naturally produces these substances slowly over time. The key here is SLOWLY which makes it rather academic. We have used up reserves that took millions or billions of years to produce in just 100+ years. We will probably use of the rest in considerably less time. Bottom line however is unchanged: burning and consumption of these products is harmful to the atmosphere. Therefore we need to find less impacting sources of energy. Yes. Unfortunately as oil disappears we will be tempted to use more coal, which is more plentiful. Coal can be turned into an automotive fuel. The Germans did it durning WWII. But it is costly and inefficient. Oddly enough more coal use could actually slow global warming. There is a new therory, that has be substanciated to a degree, that the effects of global warming have actually been postponed by particulate polution in the atmosphere, which reflects much of the sun's energy. The down side of this is that the style of energy we are likely to adopt in transition is nuclear energy. There is likely to be a renaisance of nuclear. However, construction, maintainance, mining and refining of uranium, and decommissioning of nuclear plants require massive amounts of fossil fuel. Unfortunately, many of the cleaner altenatives such as wind and solar cells also require large fossil inputs to manufacture and sustain. Many manufacturing processes depend on very high temperatures which are hard to produce without fossil fuels. We tend not to realize what a integral part of technological civilization they are. History might actually refer to the 19th, 20th, and 21st centurys as the fossil fuel civilization. That is if there is still such a thing as history. It may be critical to get the alternative in place before the oil to create them is gone. Otherwise it will be impossible to bootstrap new technologies into large scale production. The idea that it's hard or "impossible to bootstrap new technologies into large scale production" IMO is a lie. It's a lie perpetutated by corporatism--and of course inspired by energy corps and their Czars. In WW II when Germany was landloacked from oil resources they completely turned over their economy and developed a "car of the people", the "Volkswagen" and it ran on indigenous fuels. The original diesel engine was designed to run on peanut oil. Let's face it, the corporations that run our government have made sure these technologies never make it to the market. A grassroots economy handed over to non-factory farmers and rendering energy policy back to the people is totally untenable to our current political situation. A government OF the people and BY the people? Get real.Instead the solution has been more covert: develop genetically engineered strains of food which will be the only foods sustainable in the new climate. It's the only thing farmers will be able to use.Create overt aviation fuel programs which render contrails and atmospheric, high altitude haze over large areas of the planet to help shunt some solar radiation back out into space. This technology and it's usage is already being quietly taught to our children in the public school system.But the real danger is in what we don't know. As many mystical traditions attest, there is a bioenergetic component to all sentient life which has escaped the measurements of the priests scientific materialism. It's called prana. When an early prana scientist, Wilhelm Reich, sent his research to the Feds, he had his books burned and he was thrown into prison (where he died). Never mind the motor which ran on free "orgone" energy (as he termed it) which disappeared at the same time. Never mind his research which showed desertification was linked to prana depletion. Don't even speak of his research on human beings, it's probably still illegal to use the devices he created.Fortunately his remaining works were sealed at Harvard till 50 years after his death. 2008 marks the end of that 50 years and from what I've seen, it's some pretty remarkable research...It will be a pivotal next hundred years or so. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Serv
