Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues

[HIDEYO YAMAMOTO]

How much does he weigh?  And what is the strength of epogen did your vet use?  
I am emailing you the link regarding information on epogen in case you find it 
helpful.

http://www.felinecrf.org/anaemia.htm#treatments<http://www.felinecrf.org/anaemia.htm#treatments>
  - Original Message - 
  From: Gina WN<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org> 
  Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 3:44 AM
  Subject: Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues


  Great idea about the binder!

  Gina

  Caroline Kaufmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
Monkee's HCT was 13% two weeks ago (when we first went to the Vet because I 
knew something was wrong).  That was on a Tuesday.  They gave him .3 of Epogen 
and sent me home with a tiny bottle to give him sub-cu injections of Epogen 
that Thurs, and Sat.  They increased his predisone (which was 5 mg- I think?  
the little, small pills), every other day, to one every day; his Vet also added 
the appetite stimulant, 1/2 a pill twice a day.  We did the week of Epogen, 
went back this Tues. and that is when his HCT count was 10% and his Vet told us 
the options (marrow biopsy, transfusion, etc).  We did the blood transfusion on 
Wed. and they said after it, his count was up to 15%.  The instructions were to 
just continue the pred and the appetite stim.  Nothing was said about the 
Interferon or Epogen and I was too out of it to ask because I was so shocked by 
the bill from the transfusion (and all I could think was that we can't afford 
another one).
He was, what I call "Super Monkee" (it speaks for itself) on Wed., after 
the transfusion.  But since then, he's gone down a little bit (not with eating 
though); but he's defintely less Super Monkee, and he's less bright-eyed.  But 
he is still sleeping better- actual sound sleeping, as opposed to the just 
laying there and staring into space "sleeping."   
I have printed your emails and I filed them in "Monkee's Care Binder"- that 
I have organized with ALL his information and it has dividers and everything.  
I am going to ask questions from the emails when a Vet ever calls me back!  But 
I decided I need to bring some MAJOR organization to caring for Monkee if I 
want to do this right, hence the binder!  I highly suggest this to anyone who 
isn't already doing something similar.  I take The Monkee Binder with me 
everywhere.  
-Caroline 



--

  From:  Belinda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
      Reply-To:  felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  To:  felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  Subject:  Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues
  Date:  Fri, 29 Jun 2007 11:22:31 -0700
  >PS.  If it were me I would either find a vet who knows how to work 
  >with epogen or ask your vet to research it, or take research you've 
  >done to him and ask him to work with you.  Along with the epogen a 
  >cat should be getting blood builders, nutrived is a good source for 
  >this.  It has the iron, vitamin b needed to build blood.  Fred's HCT 
  >got as low as 24% and the nutrived got him back up to 30%.  Nutrived 
  >wouldn't be enough for a cat with an HCT of 18% or less.  I can't 
  >remember what is Monkee's HCT?
  >
  >PS.  Bailey had the bone marrow aspirate and that is why we very 
  >strongly suspected cancer somewhere.  He had Myloid Dysplastic 
  >(basically there were pre-cancerous cells there).  We did every test 
  >we could think of and couldn't find the cancer, even after we got 
  >his HCT to normal, he had no energy and wouldn't eat.   He succumbed 
  >to pancreatic cancer which we found after he passed with a necropsy. 
  >  I suspected his pancreas was involved because he always was 
  >uncomfortable when I fed him through his feeding tube.  He was on 
  >high doses of prednisolone and was getting doxy just incase his 
  >hemobartonella test was a false negative.  The pred and the epo are 
  >what got his HCT back to normal and stopped the bone marrow 
  >surpression by the virus.
  >
  >--
  >
  >Belinda
  >happiness is being owned by cats ...
  >
  >Be-Mi-Kitties
  >http://bemikitties.com
  >
  >Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens
  >http://adopt.bemikitties.com
  >
  >FeLV Candlelight Service
  >http://bemikitties.com/cls
  >
  >HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting & web design]
  >http://HostDesign4U.com
  >
  >
  >
  >BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites]
  >http://bmk.bemikit

Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues

[Gina WN]

Great idea about the binder!
   
  Gina

Caroline Kaufmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Monkee's HCT was 13% two weeks ago (when we first went to the Vet 
because I knew something was wrong).  That was on a Tuesday.  They gave him .3 
of Epogen and sent me home with a tiny bottle to give him sub-cu injections of 
Epogen that Thurs, and Sat.  They increased his predisone (which was 5 mg- I 
think?  the little, small pills), every other day, to one every day; his Vet 
also added the appetite stimulant, 1/2 a pill twice a day.  We did the week of 
Epogen, went back this Tues. and that is when his HCT count was 10% and his Vet 
told us the options (marrow biopsy, transfusion, etc).  We did the blood 
transfusion on Wed. and they said after it, his count was up to 15%.  The 
instructions were to just continue the pred and the appetite stim.  Nothing was 
said about the Interferon or Epogen and I was too out of it to ask because I 
was so shocked by the bill from the transfusion (and all I could think was that 
we can't afford another one).
  He was, what I call "Super Monkee" (it speaks for itself) on Wed., after the 
transfusion.  But since then, he's gone down a little bit (not with eating 
though); but he's defintely less Super Monkee, and he's less bright-eyed.  But 
he is still sleeping better- actual sound sleeping, as opposed to the just 
laying there and staring into space "sleeping."   
  I have printed your emails and I filed them in "Monkee's Care Binder"- that I 
have organized with ALL his information and it has dividers and everything.  I 
am going to ask questions from the emails when a Vet ever calls me back!  But I 
decided I need to bring some MAJOR organization to caring for Monkee if I want 
to do this right, hence the binder!  I highly suggest this to anyone who isn't 
already doing something similar.  I take The Monkee Binder with me everywhere.  
  -Caroline 



  

-

From:  Belinda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To:  felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
To:  felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject:  Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues
Date:  Fri, 29 Jun 2007 11:22:31 -0700
>PS.  If it were me I would either find a vet who knows how to work 
>with epogen or ask your vet to research it, or take research you've 
>done to him and ask him to work with you.  Along with the epogen a 
>cat should be getting blood builders, nutrived is a good source for 
>this.  It has the iron, vitamin b needed to build blood.  Fred's HCT 
>got as low as 24% and the nutrived got him back up to 30%.  Nutrived 
>wouldn't be enough for a cat with an HCT of 18% or less.  I can't 
>remember what is Monkee's HCT?
>
>PS.  Bailey had the bone marrow aspirate and that is why we very 
>strongly suspected cancer somewhere.  He had Myloid Dysplastic 
>(basically there were pre-cancerous cells there).  We did every test 
>we could think of and couldn't find the cancer, even after we got 
>his HCT to normal, he had no energy and wouldn't eat.   He succumbed 
>to pancreatic cancer which we found after he passed with a necropsy. 
>  I suspected his pancreas was involved because he always was 
>uncomfortable when I fed him through his feeding tube.  He was on 
>high doses of prednisolone and was getting doxy just incase his 
>hemobartonella test was a false negative.  The pred and the epo are 
>what got his HCT back to normal and stopped the bone marrow 
>surpression by the virus.
>
>--
>
>Belinda
>happiness is being owned by cats ...
>
>Be-Mi-Kitties
>http://bemikitties.com
>
>Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens
>http://adopt.bemikitties.com
>
>FeLV Candlelight Service
>http://bemikitties.com/cls
>
>HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting & web design]
>http://HostDesign4U.com
>
>
>
>BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites]
>http://bmk.bemikitties.com
>
>


  
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RE: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues

[Gina WN]

You're a good mom Caroline!!
   
  You made me laugh out loud with your description of feeling weak-kneed.
   
  :) Gina

Caroline Kaufmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  I talked to Dr. Susan Maier (holistic) yesterday.  I was having a lot of 
trouble myself remaining positive and I was doing a lot of crying this week 
about Monkee's anemia situation.  She said that Monkee's has a really strong 
life-force and he looks really good and I need to stay positive because the 
blood transfusion will buy more time for her remedies to work.  I asked about 
reversal of the anemia and asked her to look at the records of the blood 
results from his CBC on Tuesday at Dr. Daley's.  I asked if she could tell if 
he had regenerative or nonregenerative anemia based on those.  She said his 
regenerative values were all within the normal limits, but that no, she 
couldn't tell from the blood results.  However, she told me if the anemia is 
brought on by the chemo, it's usually regenerative (and can thus be reversed); 
if the anemia is brought on by his actual Feline Leukemia, it's usually 
nonregenerative (and usually irreversible).  I said, I guess that is why
 Dr. Daley talked about doing the bone marrow biopsy, because that would be the 
only way to really examine the marrow and be able to tell what is going on with 
the RBC, right?  Dr. Maier said yes.  I said, of course, we aren't doing a bone 
marrow biopsy, but now I FINALLY have a better understanding of what is going 
on.  I know Dr. Daley is a good Vet, she's just so clinical, and 
soo cerebral that I don't think she explains things the way I need 
things explained to me.  And it's not that I am dumb, it's just that this is my 
first FelV+ cat- and unlike her, I haven't been through this (sadly) a million 
times with other FelV+ cats.  Also, when I am sitting there crying my eyes out 
at what she is saying to me, I really need her to slow down and talk to me like 
I am a dumb baby!  So, I am kind of having an issue with that right now.  Dr. 
Maier said that I can call her anytime to "bounce ideas off" of her or ask for 
clarification about something so I thought
 that was very refreshing.  
  I have also put a call into Monkee's original Vet, Dr. Jones at the Cat 
Clinic of Louisville- for him to call me to discuss us returning to him for 
primary care since Monkee's main problem now is anemia and not cancer.  I 
haven't heard from him yet.  But his office is only 5 minutes away, so the 
stress on Monkee is decreased.  Plus, he only treats cats and so the stress of 
the sound of dogs barking is also eliminated for Monkee.  Dr. Jones just has a 
really good bedside manner that I think Monkee and I both really need right 
now.  
  Dr. Maier suggested that I feed Monkee raw, lean hamburger meat and chicken 
livers to help his anemia.  I was shocked because I am a vegetarian so I NEVER 
buy meat, much less handle it, but I had to suppress my disgust and do it for 
Monkee.  Our first foray into this realm was traumatic- for me.  The chicken 
livers really freaked me out.  When I was cutting them up the first time, my 
legs got weak and my knees felt like they might buckle, but Monkee was sitting 
on the floor looking up at me licking his chops, so I had to pull through, so 
as not to faint and fall on top of him  Needless to say, he 
LOVES it!  I think I gave him too much last 
night- probably because I was losing my mind while cutting everything up- and I 
was worried that I overdid it and he couldn't eat it all, but he cleared his 
plate!  The same this morning.  It's hilarious to watch him eat the livers 
because, even though I have been coating the place with paper towels,
 he will pick up a piece and shake his head around to help break it up (like a 
dog) and he so he gets blood and liver "juice" (yuck) everywhere!  I swear he's 
doing it just to freak me out!  But he is so happy getting raw food, I think 
that, in and of itself, is going to increase his "life force" ten-fold!
  



  

-

From:  wendy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To:  felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
To:  felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject:  To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues
Date:  Fri, 29 Jun 2007 07:46:49 -0700 (PDT)
>Hi Belinda,
>
>In response to your post below, I felt the need to
>clarify for Caroline's sake.  Bailey's situation
>should be considered a miracle in my book.  As we have
>seen too many times here, most cats do not respond as
>Bailey did with that type of anemia; it claims the
>lives of many.  While I do not wish to play a part in
>taking away Caroline's hope, I also want to be
>completely upfront about non-regenerative anemia.  It
>can be reversed, but not usually.  I should have made
>this statement earlier.  So That being said, it may be
>wise to keep her kitty on Epogen considering Bailey's
>case, as we never know when a situation might be
>reversed.
>
>Respectfully,
>Wendy
>
>--- 

Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues

[Taylor Scobie Humphrey]

Dear Caroline~~

What a great story about little Monkee and his excitement about  
getting raw chicken livers!  All over the kitchen is right!  Too  
funny!  Yuck bigtime!  And I know exactly what you mean by getting  
weak in the knees--although instead of cutting up chicken livers,  
which are pretty icky anyway you look at them raw, let's be  
realistic--except I did when my favorite vet ever, Dr. Berglund  
(since retired, darnit, although sometimes he'll fill in for someone,  
yay!)  asked me if I'd like to watch an operation on a big lab.  Of  
course I said yes and about 1/3rd of the way through the operation  
his head tech Linda said, "You're doing really well.  We've had  
people just slide right down the wall in a dead faint."  Then  
something was said about the blood THAT I WAS LOOKING RIGHT AT and I  
got a little weak in the knees myself.


But I didn't fall down and I was there for the entire op.

You're a goood catmommy to little Monkee, Caroline.

"Consciousness is Causal
 and Physicality is its
 Manifestation."


On Jun 29, 2007, at 10:17 AM, Caroline Kaufmann wrote:

I talked to Dr. Susan Maier (holistic) yesterday.  I was having a  
lot of trouble myself remaining positive and I was doing a lot of  
crying this week about Monkee's anemia situation.  She said that  
Monkee's has a really strong life-force and he looks really good  
and I need to stay positive because the blood transfusion will buy  
more time for her remedies to work.  I asked about reversal of the  
anemia and asked her to look at the records of the blood results  
from his CBC on Tuesday at Dr. Daley's.  I asked if she could tell  
if he had regenerative or nonregenerative anemia based on those.   
She said his regenerative values were all within the normal limits,  
but that no, she couldn't tell from the blood results.  However,  
she told me if the anemia is brought on by the chemo, it's usually  
regenerative (and can thus be reversed); if the anemia is brought  
on by his actual Feline Leukemia, it's usually nonregenerative (and  
usually irreversible).  I said, I guess that is why Dr. Daley  
talked about doing the bone marrow biopsy, because that would be  
the only way to really examine the marrow and be able to tell what  
is going on with the RBC, right?  Dr. Maier said yes.  I said, of  
course, we aren't doing a bone marrow biopsy, but now I FINALLY  
have a better understanding of what is going on.  I know Dr. Daley  
is a good Vet, she's just so clinical, and soo  
cerebral that I don't think she explains things the way I need  
things explained to me.  And it's not that I am dumb, it's just  
that this is my first FelV+ cat- and unlike her, I haven't been  
through this (sadly) a million times with other FelV+ cats.  Also,  
when I am sitting there crying my eyes out at what she is saying to  
me, I really need her to slow down and talk to me like I am a dumb  
baby!  So, I am kind of having an issue with that right now.  Dr.  
Maier said that I can call her anytime to "bounce ideas off" of her  
or ask for clarification about something so I thought that was very  
refreshing.


I have also put a call into Monkee's original Vet, Dr. Jones at the  
Cat Clinic of Louisville- for him to call me to discuss us  
returning to him for primary care since Monkee's main problem now  
is anemia and not cancer.  I haven't heard from him yet.  But his  
office is only 5 minutes away, so the stress on Monkee is  
decreased.  Plus, he only treats cats and so the stress of the  
sound of dogs barking is also eliminated for Monkee.  Dr. Jones  
just has a really good bedside manner that I think Monkee and I  
both really need right now.


Dr. Maier suggested that I feed Monkee raw, lean hamburger meat and  
chicken livers to help his anemia.  I was shocked because I am a  
vegetarian so I NEVER buy meat, much less handle it, but I had to  
suppress my disgust and do it for Monkee.  Our first foray into  
this realm was traumatic- for me.  The chicken livers really  
freaked me out.  When I was cutting them up the first time, my legs  
got weak and my knees felt like they might buckle, but Monkee was  
sitting on the floor looking up at me licking his chops, so I had  
to pull through, so as not to faint and fall on top of him   
Needless to say, he LOVES it!  I  
think I gave him too much last night- probably because I was losing  
my mind while cutting everything up- and I was worried that I  
overdid it and he couldn't eat it all, but he cleared his plate!   
The same this morning.  It's hilarious to watch him eat the livers  
because, even though I have been coating the place with paper  
towels, he will pick up a piece and shake his head around to help  
break it up (like a dog) and he so he gets blood and liver  
"juice" (yuck) everywhere!  I swear he's doing it just to freak me  
out!  But he is so happy getting raw food, I think that, in and of  
itself

Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues

[Belinda]

   Wow that is really interesting because the number of list cats in 
the anemia group don't support anywhere near that number.  I'll have to 
do some more research on that.  Thank you Hideyo.


--

Belinda
happiness is being owned by cats ...

Be-Mi-Kitties
http://bemikitties.com

Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens
http://adopt.bemikitties.com

FeLV Candlelight Service
http://bemikitties.com/cls

HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting & web design]
http://HostDesign4U.com



BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites]
http://bmk.bemikitties.com

Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues

[Belinda]

   Bailey was getting 20mg of pred, 10 twice a day to start once his 
hct was normal again we weaned him down over the course of several 
weeks, he was getting 2.5mgs a day when he passed.


--

Belinda
happiness is being owned by cats ...

Be-Mi-Kitties
http://bemikitties.com

Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens
http://adopt.bemikitties.com

FeLV Candlelight Service
http://bemikitties.com/cls

HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting & web design]
http://HostDesign4U.com



BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites]
http://bmk.bemikitties.com

Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues

[HIDEYO YAMAMOTO]

Hi, Belinda, I posted it on anemia list, I think - but here's the extract
from marvistavet site -- 

> In one study 2 out of 3 dogs treated for more than 90 days with human 
> erythropoietin
> and 5 out of 7 cats treated for more than 180 days with human 
> erythropoietin
> developed refractory anemia due to anti-erythropoietin antibodies.
> A more commonly reported statistic is a 30% incidence in development of 
> refractory anemia.
>
> After discontinuing erythropoietin, antibodies wane over 2-12 months and 
> the red cell count returns to its pre-treatment level. Blood transfusions 
> may be needed to keep the patient alive during this time.

here's the link
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/erythropoietin.html<http://www.marvistavet.com/html/erythropoietin.html>

And Dr. kathy who participated in this study 1998 quoted as follows;

"Having worked on the Amgen-sponsored clinical trial of Epogen in cats I can 
clearly say that no, not all cats get antibodies to human-recombinant 
erythropoietin. Based on the clinical trial, the % varied a little between 
Ohio State, UC-Davis, and U of MN patients, but it is about 1/3. Because the 
antibodies, if they form, are cross-reactive to the cat's own endogenous 
erythropoietin, they are very serious and the anemia that result will be 
severe (generally requiring multiple transfusions) until the antibodies wear 
off. We've had cats on Epogen for over 2 years without antibodies, so I 
think the majorty of cats' immune systems never recognize it as foreign."

So, 30% came from 1/3, I believe.  I had started on epogen on Ayumi thinking 
that 5 to 10% stas which is not that bad.. but if I had known that the stats 
could be as high as 30% - I would have thought more about using epogen, but 
instead I would have used  aranesp instead.


__._,_.___ 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Belinda<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org> 
  Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 12:44 PM
  Subject: Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues


  > again 30% to 50% of cats will develop antibody,


  I believe this is a very high estimate, where did you get this number 
  Hideyo??

  -- 

  Belinda
  happiness is being owned by cats ...

  Be-Mi-Kitties
  http://bemikitties.com<http://bemikitties.com/>

  Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens
  http://adopt.bemikitties.com<http://adopt.bemikitties.com/>

  FeLV Candlelight Service
  http://bemikitties.com/cls<http://bemikitties.com/cls>

  HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting & web design]
  http://HostDesign4U.com<http://hostdesign4u.com/>

  

  BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites]
  http://bmk.bemikitties.com<http://bmk.bemikitties.com/>

Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues

[Caroline Kaufmann]

Monkee's HCT was 13% two weeks ago (when we first went to the Vet because I knew something was wrong).  That was on a Tuesday.  They gave him .3 of Epogen and sent me home with a tiny bottle to give him sub-cu injections of Epogen that Thurs, and Sat.  They increased his predisone (which was 5 mg- I think?  the little, small pills), every other day, to one every day; his Vet also added the appetite stimulant, 1/2 a pill twice a day.  We did the week of Epogen, went back this Tues. and that is when his HCT count was 10% and his Vet told us the options (marrow biopsy, transfusion, etc).  We did the blood transfusion on Wed. and they said after it, his count was up to 15%.  The instructions were to just continue the pred and the appetite stim.  Nothing was said about the Interferon or Epogen and I was too out of it to ask 
because I was so shocked by the bill from the transfusion (and all I could think was that we can't afford another one).
He was, what I call "Super Monkee" (it speaks for itself) on Wed., after the transfusion.  But since then, he's gone down a little bit (not with eating though); but he's defintely less Super Monkee, and he's less bright-eyed.  But he is still sleeping better- actual sound sleeping, as opposed to the just laying there and staring into space "sleeping."   
I have printed your emails and I filed them in "Monkee's Care Binder"- that I have organized with ALL his information and it has dividers and everything.  I am going to ask questions from the emails when a Vet ever calls me back!  But I decided I need to bring some MAJOR organization to caring for Monkee if I want to do this right, hence the binder!  I highly suggest this to anyone who isn't already doing something similar.  I take The Monkee Binder with me everywhere.  
-Caroline 




From:  Belinda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To:  felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgTo:  felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject:  Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia IssuesDate:  Fri, 29 Jun 2007 11:22:31 -0700>PS.  If it were me I would either find a vet who knows how to work >with epogen or ask your vet to research it, or take research you've >done to him and ask him to work with you.  Along with the epogen a >cat should be getting blood builders, nutrived is a good source for >this.  It has the iron, vitamin b needed to build blood.  Fred's HCT >got as low as 24% and the nutrived got him back up to 30%.  Nutrived >wouldn't be enough for a cat with an HCT of 18% or less.  I can't 
>remember what is Monkee's HCT?>>PS.  Bailey had the bone marrow aspirate and that is why we very >strongly suspected cancer somewhere.  He had Myloid Dysplastic >(basically there were pre-cancerous cells there).  We did every test >we could think of and couldn't find the cancer, even after we got >his HCT to normal, he had no energy and wouldn't eat.   He succumbed >to pancreatic cancer which we found after he passed with a necropsy. >  I suspected his pancreas was involved because he always was >uncomfortable when I fed him through his feeding tube.  He was on >high doses of prednisolone and was getting doxy just incase his >hemobartonella test was a false negative.  The pred and the epo are >what got his HCT back to normal and 
stopped the bone marrow >surpression by the virus.>>-->>Belinda>happiness is being owned by cats ...>>Be-Mi-Kitties>http://bemikitties.com>>Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens>http://adopt.bemikitties.com>>FeLV Candlelight Service>http://bemikitties.com/cls>>HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting & web design]>http://HostDesign4U.com>>>>BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites]>http://bmk.bemikitties.com>> Picture this – share your photos and you could win big! 

Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues

[Belinda]

  Hideyo,
  We both belong to the amenia list and the number when considering how 
many cats on the list have been on it is nowhere near that high.  I have 
never seen this number anywhere, I have seen 30% quoted but many vets 
who regularly work with epogen have said in their experience the number 
is closer to 10%, where are you getting these numbers???



again 30% to 50% of cats will develop antibody,


--

Belinda
happiness is being owned by cats ...

Be-Mi-Kitties
http://bemikitties.com

Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens
http://adopt.bemikitties.com

FeLV Candlelight Service
http://bemikitties.com/cls

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Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues

[Belinda]

again 30% to 50% of cats will develop antibody,



I believe this is a very high estimate, where did you get this number 
Hideyo??


--

Belinda
happiness is being owned by cats ...

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http://bemikitties.com

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Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues

[Belinda]

PS.  If it were me I would either find a vet who knows how to work with 
epogen or ask your vet to research it, or take research you've done to 
him and ask him to work with you.  Along with the epogen a cat should be 
getting blood builders, nutrived is a good source for this.  It has the 
iron, vitamin b needed to build blood.  Fred's HCT got as low as 24% and 
the nutrived got him back up to 30%.  Nutrived wouldn't be enough for a 
cat with an HCT of 18% or less.  I can't remember what is Monkee's HCT?


PS.  Bailey had the bone marrow aspirate and that is why we very 
strongly suspected cancer somewhere.  He had Myloid Dysplastic 
(basically there were pre-cancerous cells there).  We did every test we 
could think of and couldn't find the cancer, even after we got his HCT 
to normal, he had no energy and wouldn't eat.   He succumbed to 
pancreatic cancer which we found after he passed with a necropsy.  I 
suspected his pancreas was involved because he always was uncomfortable 
when I fed him through his feeding tube.  He was on high doses of 
prednisolone and was getting doxy just incase his hemobartonella test 
was a false negative.  The pred and the epo are what got his HCT back to 
normal and stopped the bone marrow surpression by the virus.


--

Belinda
happiness is being owned by cats ...

Be-Mi-Kitties
http://bemikitties.com

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http://adopt.bemikitties.com

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Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues

[HIDEYO YAMAMOTO]

Yes, please please see another vet -- how insulting-- Ayumi is very much the 
same -- she jumps and eat and she is not clinically ill!! I have heard kitties 
who were anemic and clinically ill - and I thought anemia killed them -- but 
now looking at Ayumi, there must be something else besides anemia that killed 
my babies because PCV 8, and Ayumi does not look ill ---

I am so glad that you are not letting this stupid vet convince you about what 
he is saying --- don't give up, Caroline.. let's fight together for both Monkee 
and Ayumi.. 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Caroline Kaufmann<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org> 
  Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 11:51 AM
  Subject: Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues


  I am going to talk to Monkee's regular vet (Dr. Jones) about this because I 
am worried.  And I don't like how I was pretty much told to give up on a cat 
that doesn't look clinically sick!  What dying cat eats a human-sized portion 
of raw hamburger meat and chicken livers (with gusto!)?!  And has enough energy 
to rip the chicken livers to shreds!  Come on!  

  Thanks for your insight- both of you.  I didn't know there was a feline 
anemia list serve.  I will try that too...

  -Caroline 





From: Belinda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
    To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 10:20:45 -0700

        Epogen should be given 3 times a week to start one dose will 
do nothing, It sounds like your vet isn't familiar with how to use epogen.  It 
should be given 3 times a week and ONLY once the cat is in the normal range 
should that number be lowered.  Bailey got it 3 times a week for about 8 
weeks, then it went to twice a week for a few weeks and then we went to once a 
week.  He was still getting it once a week when he passed from cancer.  He 
had been getting it for about 5 months and his HCT was still normal at 33% when 
the cancer took him.

Like I said almost ALL cats will have a drop in their HCT when they start 
epogen for the first 2 to 5 weeks, it can take 2 to 5 weeks to work, average is 
2 or 3 weeks for it to kick in and in that time the HCT almost always drops, 
many vets will stop the epogen at that point thinking it's an antiboby 
reaction.  But I do know of a cat that took over 5 weeks and the standard 
starting dose wasn't enough for this cat, luckily her vet figured it out and 
upped the dose, the cat reversed it's anemia.

Another cat I know on the feline lymphoma list who had CRF related anemia 
problems along with his cancer lived 2 years on epogen before the cancer came 
out of remission for a 3rd time and took him.

--

Belinda
happiness is being owned by cats ...

Be-Mi-Kitties
http://bemikitties.com<http://bemikitties.com/>

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--
  Make every IM count. Download Messenger and join the i'm Initiative now. It's 
free.<http://g.msn.com/8HMBENUS/2755??PS=47575> <>

Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues

[Caroline Kaufmann]

I am going to talk to Monkee's regular vet (Dr. Jones) about this because I am worried.  And I don't like how I was pretty much told to give up on a cat that doesn't look clinically sick!  What dying cat eats a human-sized portion of raw hamburger meat and chicken livers (with gusto!)?!  And has enough energy to rip the chicken livers to shreds!  Come on!  


Thanks for your insight- both of you.  I didn't know there was a feline anemia list serve.  I will try that too...
-Caroline 


From: Belinda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia IssuesDate: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 10:20:45 -0700
        Epogen should be given 3 times a week to start one dose will do nothing, It sounds like your vet isn't familiar with how to use epogen.  It should be given 3 times a week and ONLY once the cat is in the normal range should that number be lowered.  Bailey got it 3 times a week for about 8 weeks, then it went to twice a week for a few weeks and then we went to once a week.  He was still getting it once a week when he passed from cancer.  He had been getting it for about 5 months and his HCT was still normal at 33% when the cancer took him.Like I said almost ALL cats will have a drop in their HCT when they start epogen for the first 2 to 5 weeks, it can take 2 to 5 weeks to work, average is 2 or 3 weeks for it to kick in and in that time the HCT 
almost always drops, many vets will stop the epogen at that point thinking it's an antiboby reaction.  But I do know of a cat that took over 5 weeks and the standard starting dose wasn't enough for this cat, luckily her vet figured it out and upped the dose, the cat reversed it's anemia.Another cat I know on the feline lymphoma list who had CRF related anemia problems along with his cancer lived 2 years on epogen before the cancer came out of remission for a 3rd time and took him.--

Belinda
happiness is being owned by cats ...

Be-Mi-Kitties
http://bemikitties.com

Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens
http://adopt.bemikitties.com

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Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues

[Belinda]

   Epogen should be given 3 times a week to start *one dose will do 
nothing*, It sounds like your vet isn't familiar with how to use 
epogen.  It should be given 3 times a week and ONLY once the cat is in 
the normal range should that number be lowered.  Bailey got it 3 times a 
week for about 8 weeks, then it went to twice a week for a few weeks and 
then we went to once a week.  He was still getting it once a week when 
he passed from cancer.  He had been getting it for about 5 months and 
his HCT was still normal at 33% when the cancer took him.


Like I said *almost ALL* cats will have a drop in their HCT when they 
start epogen for the first 2 to 5 weeks, it can take 2 to 5 weeks to 
work, average is 2 or 3 weeks for it to kick in and in that time the HCT 
almost always drops, many vets will stop the epogen at that point 
thinking it's an antiboby reaction.  But I do know of a cat that took 
over 5 weeks and the standard starting dose wasn't enough for this cat, 
luckily her vet figured it out and upped the dose, the cat reversed it's 
anemia.


Another cat I know on the feline lymphoma list who had CRF related 
anemia problems along with his cancer lived 2 years on epogen before the 
cancer came out of remission for a 3rd time and took him.


--

Belinda
happiness is being owned by cats ...

Be-Mi-Kitties
http://bemikitties.com

Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens
http://adopt.bemikitties.com

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Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues

[HIDEYO YAMAMOTO]

yikes... Dr. Daley may not be familiar with how epogen works, Caroline-- how 
long ago did Monkee get an epogen?  It usually takes two to three weeks for 
epogen to show any effect --the meantime, his PCV will continue to go down.. 
but you don't know yet if he was only give a week ago,

 again, since he is not sure whether epogen works or not, I would so very much 
recommend that you switch to aranesp from epogen.. again 30% to 50% of cats 
will develop antibody, once it does, epogen will destroy human erytheipoten 
(produced by epogen) as well as natural erytheiopoeitn that Monkee produces on 
his own, and his anemia will become more severe, and it will take two months to 
a year before antibody reactions goes away from his body --the meantime, you 
have to give him multiple transfusion to tie his life.. I am advising this to 
you, that's exactly what happened to ayumi and I regeret that I did not use 
aranesep -- aranesp works a similar way to epogen, but much less possibility of 
him getting antibody reactions - lots of vet schools now uses aranesp over 
epogen due to the risk mentioned earilier.  This antibody reaction can be fatal.

Epogen needs to be injected in cats three times a week initially and you need 
to monitor his PCV weekly and also his BP, epogen will cause high BP in cats 
(hypertension) and will cause a cat to be blind.. my hannibal became blind 
after one week therapy of epogen due to high BP -- make sure you check his BP 
now and regularly during epogen therapy, anything over 150 to 160 is high, and 
he needs to be on norvasc to control hypertension.  and pay attention to his 
pupils to make sure that it does not look dilated.. if it does, you need to 
take him to emergency to get norvasc, as there is a chance to reversre blindess 
if you catch it with in 24 to 48 hours or so.  thank you.

Hideyo
  - Original Message - 
  From: Caroline Kaufmann<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org> 
  Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 10:32 AM
  Subject: Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues


  Monkee only had one week's treatment of Epogen.  Dr. Daley didn't say 
anything about continuing Epogen or trying a second dose.  When I asked on 
Tues. if the Epogen helped him at all, she said no, because his red blood cell 
count was actually lower.  So, I don't know if we should try it again (meaning, 
if I should ASK for Monkee to be able to try it again)?  I was also not 
instructed as to whether or not we should re-start his 7-days-on of Interferon, 
which would start today?  I put a call into Dr. Daley yesterday about that and 
haven't heard back yet.  





From: "HIDEYO YAMAMOTO" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
To: 
Subject: Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 09:03:12 -0600


I know that it's not very common - but I did hear from two other people 
from anemia list who responded to epogen who had non-regenerative anemia but 
who was not a CRF kitty -- I have my kitty, ayumi who has non regenerative 
anemia with unknown cause is also suffering from anemia -- she was coping with 
anemial pretty well, until I started using epogen (though it seems to have 
worked for a tiny bit --), then she might have developed antibody reaction as 
her anemia got worse than before she started treatment -- so I stopped epogen 
therapy completely and she got her first transfusion -- my hope is that, after 
several weeks, antibody reaction will go away and her PCV will go back to where 
it was before the therapy...

I do however, recommend due to antibody reaction possibility (up to 30% to 
50% of cats in some study), using aranesp over epogen... and sometimes, it 
works among kitties who developed antiboy to epogen, and antibody reaction % is 
much less than epogen.. if I had researched a bit more regarding the real % of 
epogen, I would probably have used aranesp over epogen in a heartbeat.. as I 
feel that she never really got benefit of epogen, but it may have harmed her 
more -- aranesp is a bit more expensive.. but I am considering using it for 
ayumi soon.
  - Original Message - 
  From: wendy<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org> 
  Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 8:46 AM
  Subject: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues


  Hi Belinda,

  In response to your post below, I felt the need to
  clarify for Caroline's sake.  Bailey's situation
  should be considered a miracle in my book.  As we have
  seen too many times here, most cats do not respond as
  Bailey did with that type of anemia; it claims the
  lives of many.  While I do not wish to play a part in
  taking away Caroline's hope, I also want to be
  co

Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues

[Caroline Kaufmann]

Monkee only had one week's treatment of Epogen.  Dr. Daley didn't say anything about continuing Epogen or trying a second dose.  When I asked on Tues. if the Epogen helped him at all, she said no, because his red blood cell count was actually lower.  So, I don't know if we should try it again (meaning, if I should ASK for Monkee to be able to try it again)?  I was also not instructed as to whether or not we should re-start his 7-days-on of Interferon, which would start today?  I put a call into Dr. Daley yesterday about that and haven't heard back yet.  



From: "HIDEYO YAMAMOTO" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgTo: Subject: Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia IssuesDate: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 09:03:12 -0600




I know that it's not very common - but I did hear from two other people from anemia list who responded to epogen who had non-regenerative anemia but who was not a CRF kitty -- I have my kitty, ayumi who has non regenerative anemia with unknown cause is also suffering from anemia -- she was coping with anemial pretty well, until I started using epogen (though it seems to have worked for a tiny bit --), then she might have developed antibody reaction as her anemia got worse than before she started treatment -- so I stopped epogen therapy completely and she got her first transfusion -- my hope is that, after several weeks, antibody reaction will go away and her PCV will go back to where it was before the therapy...
 
I do however, recommend due to antibody reaction possibility (up to 30% to 50% of cats in some study), using aranesp over epogen... and sometimes, it works among kitties who developed antiboy to epogen, and antibody reaction % is much less than epogen.. if I had researched a bit more regarding the real % of epogen, I would probably have used aranesp over epogen in a heartbeat.. as I feel that she never really got benefit of epogen, but it may have harmed her more -- aranesp is a bit more expensive.. but I am considering using it for ayumi soon.

- Original Message - 
From: wendy 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 8:46 AM
Subject: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues
Hi Belinda,In response to your post below, I felt the need toclarify for Caroline's sake.  Bailey's situationshould be considered a miracle in my book.  As we haveseen too many times here, most cats do not respond asBailey did with that type of anemia; it claims thelives of many.  While I do not wish to play a part intaking away Caroline's hope, I also want to becompletely upfront about non-regenerative anemia.  Itcan be reversed, but not usually.  I should have madethis statement earlier.  So That being said, it may bewise to keep her kitty on Epogen considering Bailey'scase, as we never know when a situation might bereversed.Respectfully,Wendy--- Belinda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:> Everytime I hear this I post this, Bailey's anemia> was non regenerative > and we DID reverse it.> > > and it is not a good anemia to have.  It means the> leukemia is probably active in the bone marrow,> which is, as far as I know, irreversable.> > -- > > Belinda> happiness is being owned by cats ...> > Be-Mi-Kitties> http://bemikitties.com> > Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens> http://adopt.bemikitties.com> > FeLV Candlelight Service> http://bemikitties.com/cls> > HostDesign4U.com 
[affordable hosting & web design]> http://HostDesign4U.com> > > > BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites]> http://bmk.bemikitties.com> > > "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ Finding fabulous fares is fun.  Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 Make every IM count. Download Messenger and join the i’m Initiative now. It’s free. 

Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues

[HIDEYO YAMAMOTO]

I am in a very similar boat, Caroline - please stay positive - my first every 
rescued kitty, ayumi whom I brought from Japan, is fighting against anemial.. 
like Monkee -- she is not clinically ill, but her PCV went down to 8 last week 
and she had her first tansfusion -- unless there is a huge treatment 
difference, please don't put him go through bone marrow biopsy -- that's very 
stressful for him.

I suggested in my previuos email.. but please consdier aranesp for anemia 
teatment.  and you might be already, but if you are not, please join feline 
anemia list as there are lots of people with experience there as well.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Caroline Kaufmann<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org> 
  Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 9:17 AM
  Subject: RE: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues


  I talked to Dr. Susan Maier (holistic) yesterday.  I was having a lot of 
trouble myself remaining positive and I was doing a lot of crying this week 
about Monkee's anemia situation.  She said that Monkee's has a really strong 
life-force and he looks really good and I need to stay positive because the 
blood transfusion will buy more time for her remedies to work.  I asked about 
reversal of the anemia and asked her to look at the records of the blood 
results from his CBC on Tuesday at Dr. Daley's.  I asked if she could tell if 
he had regenerative or nonregenerative anemia based on those.  She said his 
regenerative values were all within the normal limits, but that no, she 
couldn't tell from the blood results.  However, she told me if the anemia is 
brought on by the chemo, it's usually regenerative (and can thus be reversed); 
if the anemia is brought on by his actual Feline Leukemia, it's usually 
nonregenerative (and usually irreversible).  I said, I guess that is why Dr. 
Daley talked about doing the bone marrow biopsy, because that would be the only 
way to really examine the marrow and be able to tell what is going on with the 
RBC, right?  Dr. Maier said yes.  I said, of course, we aren't doing a bone 
marrow biopsy, but now I FINALLY have a better understanding of what is going 
on.  I know Dr. Daley is a good Vet, she's just so clinical, and 
soo cerebral that I don't think she explains things the way I need 
things explained to me.  And it's not that I am dumb, it's just that this is my 
first FelV+ cat- and unlike her, I haven't been through this (sadly) a million 
times with other FelV+ cats.  Also, when I am sitting there crying my eyes out 
at what she is saying to me, I really need her to slow down and talk to me like 
I am a dumb baby!  So, I am kind of having an issue with that right now.  Dr. 
Maier said that I can call her anytime to "bounce ideas off" of her or ask for 
clarification about something so I thought that was very refreshing.  

  I have also put a call into Monkee's original Vet, Dr. Jones at the Cat 
Clinic of Louisville- for him to call me to discuss us returning to him for 
primary care since Monkee's main problem now is anemia and not cancer.  I 
haven't heard from him yet.  But his office is only 5 minutes away, so the 
stress on Monkee is decreased.  Plus, he only treats cats and so the stress of 
the sound of dogs barking is also eliminated for Monkee.  Dr. Jones just has a 
really good bedside manner that I think Monkee and I both really need right 
now.  

  Dr. Maier suggested that I feed Monkee raw, lean hamburger meat and chicken 
livers to help his anemia.  I was shocked because I am a vegetarian so I NEVER 
buy meat, much less handle it, but I had to suppress my disgust and do it for 
Monkee.  Our first foray into this realm was traumatic- for me.  The chicken 
livers really freaked me out.  When I was cutting them up the first time, my 
legs got weak and my knees felt like they might buckle, but Monkee was sitting 
on the floor looking up at me licking his chops, so I had to pull through, so 
as not to faint and fall on top of him  Needless to say, he 
LOVES it!  I think I gave him too much last 
night- probably because I was losing my mind while cutting everything up- and I 
was worried that I overdid it and he couldn't eat it all, but he cleared his 
plate!  The same this morning.  It's hilarious to watch him eat the livers 
because, even though I have been coating the place with paper towels, he will 
pick up a piece and shake his head around to help break it up (like a dog) and 
he so he gets blood and liver "juice" (yuck) everywhere!  I swear he's doing it 
just to freak me out!  But he is so happy getting raw food, I think that, in 
and of itself, is going to increase his "life force" ten-fold!

  






From:  

RE: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues

[Caroline Kaufmann]

I talked to Dr. Susan Maier (holistic) yesterday.  I was having a lot of trouble myself remaining positive and I was doing a lot of crying this week about Monkee's anemia situation.  She said that Monkee's has a really strong life-force and he looks really good and I need to stay positive because the blood transfusion will buy more time for her remedies to work.  I asked about reversal of the anemia and asked her to look at the records of the blood results from his CBC on Tuesday at Dr. Daley's.  I asked if she could tell if he had regenerative or nonregenerative anemia based on those.  She said his regenerative values were all within the normal limits, but that no, she couldn't tell from the blood results.  However, she told me if the anemia is brought on by the chemo, it's usually regenerative (and can thus be 
reversed); if the anemia is brought on by his actual Feline Leukemia, it's usually nonregenerative (and usually irreversible).  I said, I guess that is why Dr. Daley talked about doing the bone marrow biopsy, because that would be the only way to really examine the marrow and be able to tell what is going on with the RBC, right?  Dr. Maier said yes.  I said, of course, we aren't doing a bone marrow biopsy, but now I FINALLY have a better understanding of what is going on.  I know Dr. Daley is a good Vet, she's just so clinical, and soo cerebral that I don't think she explains things the way I need things explained to me.  And it's not that I am dumb, it's just that this is my first FelV+ cat- and unlike her, I haven't been through this (sadly) a million times with other FelV+ cats.  Also, when I am sitting there crying my eyes out at 
what she is saying to me, I really need her to slow down and talk to me like I am a dumb baby!  So, I am kind of having an issue with that right now.  Dr. Maier said that I can call her anytime to "bounce ideas off" of her or ask for clarification about something so I thought that was very refreshing.  


I have also put a call into Monkee's original Vet, Dr. Jones at the Cat Clinic of Louisville- for him to call me to discuss us returning to him for primary care since Monkee's main problem now is anemia and not cancer.  I haven't heard from him yet.  But his office is only 5 minutes away, so the stress on Monkee is decreased.  Plus, he only treats cats and so the stress of the sound of dogs barking is also eliminated for Monkee.  Dr. Jones just has a really good bedside manner that I think Monkee and I both really need right now.  
Dr. Maier suggested that I feed Monkee raw, lean hamburger meat and chicken livers to help his anemia.  I was shocked because I am a vegetarian so I NEVER buy meat, much less handle it, but I had to suppress my disgust and do it for Monkee.  Our first foray into this realm was traumatic- for me.  The chicken livers really freaked me out.  When I was cutting them up the first time, my legs got weak and my knees felt like they might buckle, but Monkee was sitting on the floor looking up at me licking his chops, so I had to pull through, so as not to faint and fall on top of him  Needless to say, he LOVES it!  I think I gave him too much last night- probably because I was losing my mind while cutting everything up- and I was worried that I overdid it and he couldn't eat it all, 
but he cleared his plate!  The same this morning.  It's hilarious to watch him eat the livers because, even though I have been coating the place with paper towels, he will pick up a piece and shake his head around to help break it up (like a dog) and he so he gets blood and liver "juice" (yuck) everywhere!  I swear he's doing it just to freak me out!  But he is so happy getting raw food, I think that, in and of itself, is going to increase his "life force" ten-fold!





From:  wendy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To:  felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgTo:  felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject:  To Belinda: Re: Anemia IssuesDate:  Fri, 29 Jun 2007 07:46:49 -0700 (PDT)>Hi Belinda,>>In response to your post below, I felt the need to>clarify for Caroline's sake.  Bailey's situation>should be considered a miracle in my book.  As we have>seen too many times here, most cats do not respond as>Bailey did with that type of anemia; it claims the>lives of many.  While I do not wish to play a part in>taking away Caroline's hope, I also want to be>completely upfront about non-regenerative anemia.  It>can be reversed, but not usually.  I 
should have made>this statement earlier.  So That being said, it may be>wise to keep her kitty on Epogen considering Bailey's>case, as we never know when a situation might be>reversed.>>Respectfully,>Wendy>>--- Belinda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:>> > Everytime I hear this I post this, Bailey's anemia> > was non regenerative> > and we DID reverse it.> >> > > and it is not a good anemia to have.  It means the> > leukemia is probably active in the bone marrow,> > which is, as far as I know, irreversable.> 

Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues

[HIDEYO YAMAMOTO]

I know that it's not very common - but I did hear from two other people from 
anemia list who responded to epogen who had non-regenerative anemia but who was 
not a CRF kitty -- I have my kitty, ayumi who has non regenerative anemia with 
unknown cause is also suffering from anemia -- she was coping with anemial 
pretty well, until I started using epogen (though it seems to have worked for a 
tiny bit --), then she might have developed antibody reaction as her anemia got 
worse than before she started treatment -- so I stopped epogen therapy 
completely and she got her first transfusion -- my hope is that, after several 
weeks, antibody reaction will go away and her PCV will go back to where it was 
before the therapy...

I do however, recommend due to antibody reaction possibility (up to 30% to 50% 
of cats in some study), using aranesp over epogen... and sometimes, it works 
among kitties who developed antiboy to epogen, and antibody reaction % is much 
less than epogen.. if I had researched a bit more regarding the real % of 
epogen, I would probably have used aranesp over epogen in a heartbeat.. as I 
feel that she never really got benefit of epogen, but it may have harmed her 
more -- aranesp is a bit more expensive.. but I am considering using it for 
ayumi soon.
  - Original Message - 
  From: wendy 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 8:46 AM
  Subject: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues


  Hi Belinda,

  In response to your post below, I felt the need to
  clarify for Caroline's sake.  Bailey's situation
  should be considered a miracle in my book.  As we have
  seen too many times here, most cats do not respond as
  Bailey did with that type of anemia; it claims the
  lives of many.  While I do not wish to play a part in
  taking away Caroline's hope, I also want to be
  completely upfront about non-regenerative anemia.  It
  can be reversed, but not usually.  I should have made
  this statement earlier.  So That being said, it may be
  wise to keep her kitty on Epogen considering Bailey's
  case, as we never know when a situation might be
  reversed.

  Respectfully,
  Wendy

  --- Belinda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

  > Everytime I hear this I post this, Bailey's anemia
  > was non regenerative 
  > and we DID reverse it.
  > 
  > > and it is not a good anemia to have.  It means the
  > leukemia is probably active in the bone marrow,
  > which is, as far as I know, irreversable.
  > 
  > -- 
  > 
  > Belinda
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