[Finale] Trill to notes in Finale 2010?
Hi folks, I wonder if there is some more elegant way of achieving trill to notes in Finale 2010? I have used the method described in older entries: place a grace note, move it to the right of the principal note, shorten the stem of the grace note (btw isn't there a way of removing the stem rather than shortening it if I want to create a stemless note?), place parenthesis as articulations around it. I also learned from the older entries that there is (or was?) a TG Tool for this but I can't see that it shipped with Finale 2010. And if I understood it correctly, the TG tool way of doing this suffered from the same problem as when done manually: when executing a note spacing, the position of the trill to note including the parenthesis are reset to be to the left of the principal note. Very annoying. Any idea of a more elegant and reliable way of doing this? Thanks /D ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Old-style lyrics font
Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: just in case you like that sort of thing. I do Dennis, very much. It's just what I need for replacing missing or damaged parts from 19th and early 20th C. band sets. I've been using Baskerville but your font looks much more the genuine article. Thank you for your hard work, and I'd like to download it if I may. Peter ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Old-style lyrics font
On Wed, September 30, 2009 7:53 am, Peter Taylor wrote: I do Dennis, very much. It's just what I need for replacing missing or damaged parts from 19th and early 20th C. band sets. I've been using Baskerville but your font looks much more the genuine article. Thank you for your hard work, and I'd like to download it if I may. Thanks for the kind words. The direct link is: http://maltedmedia.com/people/bathory/opera-lyrics-smooth.ttf Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Trill to notes in Finale 2010?
Hmm, I use Bill Duncan's Finale Productivity fonts, which contain parenthesised noteheads with and without sharps, flats and naturals, positioned automatically as articulations. Since I check the box in Music Spacing to take articulations into account, I get good spacing this way. Grace notes will break if you ever use them in a linked, voiced part. It's an acknowledged bug, and not very far up on the list of things to fix, apparently. Christopher On Wed Sep 30, at WednesdaySep 30 5:36 AM, Dan Tillberg wrote: Hi folks, I wonder if there is some more elegant way of achieving trill to notes in Finale 2010? I have used the method described in older entries: place a grace note, move it to the right of the principal note, shorten the stem of the grace note (btw isn't there a way of removing the stem rather than shortening it if I want to create a stemless note?), place parenthesis as articulations around it. I also learned from the older entries that there is (or was?) a TG Tool for this but I can't see that it shipped with Finale 2010. And if I understood it correctly, the TG tool way of doing this suffered from the same problem as when done manually: when executing a note spacing, the position of the trill to note including the parenthesis are reset to be to the left of the principal note. Very annoying. Any idea of a more elegant and reliable way of doing this? Thanks /D ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Trill to notes in Finale 2010?
On 9/30/2009 8:43 AM, Christopher Smith wrote: Hmm, I use Bill Duncan's Finale Productivity fonts, which contain parenthesised noteheads with and without sharps, flats and naturals, The Engraver font contains the same characters. I guess you could define your own artculations with them. As for TGTools, the parenthesized trill notes tool is part of the full packages, not the lite version that comes with Finale. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Old-style lyrics font
Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: Hi all, A few years ago, I made a libretto font for myself from some 19th century scores. It's not too bad, has a nice old roughness to it, and you can have it. It's only TrueType, but do what you will with it. I'll be updating it for the remaining characters in a few months, and cleaning up a few I don't like, but the name and other characteristics will remain the same so you can just drop in the new version. All the alphabetic (including lowercase accented characters) and the numbers are there, 147 characters in all. Here's an image: http://maltedmedia.com/images/opera-font.jpg On my homepage, there's a link to download it: http://maltedmedia.com/bathory/ As I said, I'll be updating this from time to time. Dennis, Thank you very much for sharing that with us -- while it certainly won't be appropriate for all lyrics, it is a very nice touch to be able to better recreate the appearance of older scores if that's our aim. A nice addition to the available fonts! -- David H. Bailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Interesting behavior
I'm working on a big band piece that has a section in 7 flats (C-Flat) in the middle. Oddly enough, the guitar and bass parts are in 5 sharps (B). FinWin2k4 Does anyone have any idea why Finale might do that? And if so, why the guitar and bass, but not the piano? And not the trombones? Very interesting. cd -- http://www.livejournal.com/users/dershem/# http://members.cox.net/dershem ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Interesting behavior
Carl Dershem wrote: I'm working on a big band piece that has a section in 7 flats (C-Flat) in the middle. Oddly enough, the guitar and bass parts are in 5 sharps (B). FinWin2k4 Does anyone have any idea why Finale might do that? And if so, why the guitar and bass, but not the piano? And not the trombones? Very interesting. cd Maybe the programmers thought that guitarists and bassists can't actually read the music so it won't matter? :-) There's no logical reason for that to happen -- what happens if you transpose the guitar and bass parts chromatically? -- David H. Bailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
{Fraud?} {Disarmed} Re: [Finale] Interesting behavior
Actually it speaks for Final being rational. Klaus --- On Wed, 9/30/09, Carl Dershem ders...@cox.net wrote: From: Carl Dershem ders...@cox.net Subject: [Finale] Interesting behavior To: finale@shsu.edu Date: Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 7:40 PM I'm working on a big band piece that has a section in 7 flats (C-Flat) in the middle. Oddly enough, the guitar and bass parts are in 5 sharps (B). FinWin2k4 Does anyone have any idea why Finale might do that? And if so, why the guitar and bass, but not the piano? And not the trombones? Very interesting. cd -- http://www.livejournal.com/users/dershem/# http://members.cox.net/dershem ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Interesting behavior
From what I have seen, string instruments are more comfortable playing in sharps. Trombones are more comfortable playing in flats. At 9/30/2009 01:40 PM, Carl Dershem wrote: I'm working on a big band piece that has a section in 7 flats (C-Flat) in the middle. Oddly enough, the guitar and bass parts are in 5 sharps (B). FinWin2k4 Does anyone have any idea why Finale might do that? And if so, why the guitar and bass, but not the piano? And not the trombones? Very interesting. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
{Fraud?} {Disarmed} Re: {Fraud?} {Disarmed} Re: [Finale] Interesting behavior
Why did my posting get the prefux of {Fraud?} {Disarmed}?
I wouldn’t be able to post if not being a legit member.
My point of view isn’r exotic at all. Except for a very few situations of
modulating to a dominant key or a parallel minor it hardly ever furthers
reading to notate music with more than 6 sharps or 6 flats.
When i played bass trombone in a British style brass band (the only instrument
written in bass clef concert in that type of scoring) I sometimes played in E
major, while the Bb instruments played in written Gb and the Eb instruments in
written Db.
Klaus (no need to sign my full name, as it comes with the mail address)
--- On Wed, 9/30/09, Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre yorkmaster...@yahoo.com wrote:
From: Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre yorkmaster...@yahoo.com
Subject: {Fraud?} {Disarmed} Re: [Finale] Interesting behavior
To: finale@shsu.edu
Date: Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 8:27 PM
Actually it speaks for Final being rational.
Klaus
--- On Wed, 9/30/09, Carl Dershem ders...@cox.net wrote:
From: Carl Dershem ders...@cox.net
Subject: [Finale] Interesting behavior
To: finale@shsu.edu
Date: Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 7:40 PM
I'm working on a big band piece that has a section in 7 flats (C-Flat) in the
middle. Oddly enough, the guitar and bass parts are in 5 sharps (B).
FinWin2k4
Does anyone have any idea why Finale might do that? And if so, why the guitar
and bass, but not the piano? And not the trombones?
Very interesting.
cd
-- http://www.livejournal.com/users/dershem/#
http://members.cox.net/dershem
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RE: [SPAM] Re: [Finale] Interesting behavior
Carl Dershem wrote: I'm working on a big band piece that has a section in 7 flats (C-Flat) in the middle. Oddly enough, the guitar and bass parts are in 5 sharps (B). FinWin2k4 Does anyone have any idea why Finale might do that? And if so, why the guitar and bass, but not the piano? And not the trombones? Very interesting. cd Maybe the programmers thought that guitarists and bassists can't actually read the music so it won't matter? :-) If they thought this, they were half right. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Interesting behavior
Well, a few things come to mind. First of all, is this an old file being opened in a newer version of Finale? We know opening older versions is SUPPOSED to be transparent, but in real life... I have stopped using templates made in old versions of Finale because they gave me so much trouble, and never the same problem twice, it seemed. Could independent key sigs be enabled on the guit and bass staves? Never mind if YOU did it, just check. Sometimes these things check themselves. There is an option somewhere to wrap keys; could that be checked? maybe ONLY on those staves? Sometimes I hit the metatool for some behaviour or other, then discover that I was in the Staff Tool, so a weird Staff Style gets assigned instead of what I wanted (this often causes me to make everything a bass clarinet transposition instead of respacing!) Could this have happened? If all else fails, create a new file with all the correct staves in the current version of Finale and copy the file contents over. This often filters out the corruption, if the file is indeed corrupted. Hold on, I just thought of something. Of COURSE guit and bass staves are transposing instruments! In the Staff Attirbutes, click Transposition, and UNcheck Simplify Key! I'm 99% sure that's it. Christopher On Wed Sep 30, at WednesdaySep 30 1:40 PM, Carl Dershem wrote: I'm working on a big band piece that has a section in 7 flats (C- Flat) in the middle. Oddly enough, the guitar and bass parts are in 5 sharps (B). FinWin2k4 Does anyone have any idea why Finale might do that? And if so, why the guitar and bass, but not the piano? And not the trombones? Very interesting. cd -- http://www.livejournal.com/users/dershem/# http://members.cox.net/dershem ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Interesting behavior
Still, that should be the users' decisions and not Finale's. ajr From what I have seen, string instruments are more comfortable playing in sharps. Trombones are more comfortable playing in flats. At 9/30/2009 01:40 PM, Carl Dershem wrote: I'm working on a big band piece that has a section in 7 flats (C-Flat) in the middle. Oddly enough, the guitar and bass parts are in 5 sharps (B). FinWin2k4 Does anyone have any idea why Finale might do that? And if so, why the guitar and bass, but not the piano? And not the trombones? Very interesting. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Interesting behavior
And I can't think of very many musical situations where you would want some of the musicians to be in one key and others to be in a different key, even if enharmonically equivalent. Stop the rehearsal and say that Db needs to be changed and you'll get the guitarists and bassists scratching their heads and complaining that you don't know what you're talking about 'cause we don't have any stinking Db at all! I agree with Aaron that even if a person wants two different key signatures, it should definitely be the users' decision, not the program's. David H. Bailey P.S. by the time you're writing music with 7 flats -- it's for advanced musicians who should be equally comfortable playing in flats or sharps. arabu...@cowtown.net wrote: Still, that should be the users' decisions and not Finale's. ajr -- David H. Bailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Interesting behavior
Guitar and bass are transposing instruments. I'm sure that if you look at the transposition options in the staff attributes, you'll find that simplify key is checked. Michael On 30 Sep 2009, at 19:40, Carl Dershem wrote: I'm working on a big band piece that has a section in 7 flats (C- Flat) in the middle. Oddly enough, the guitar and bass parts are in 5 sharps (B). FinWin2k4 Does anyone have any idea why Finale might do that? And if so, why the guitar and bass, but not the piano? And not the trombones? Very interesting. cd -- http://www.livejournal.com/users/dershem/# http://members.cox.net/dershem ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Interesting behavior
Yeah, it's just weird that if you choose a concert key of Cb (which IS perfectly standard; no double flats or anything. I remember practicing études in that key) then it gets changed ONLY on the octave transposing instruments like guit and bass by default. Christopher On Wed Sep 30, at WednesdaySep 30 5:16 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Simplify Key is designed to avoid unwieldy, nonstandard keys (like, ahem, Cb major, which IMO you *really* ought to reconsider) on transposing instruments. In the vast majority of cases, this is what you want. If a piece is in F# major, the clarinets should be written in Ab -- not G#! Cheers, - Darcy - djar...@earthlink.net Brooklyn, NY On 30 Sep 2009, at 4:56 PM, Carl Dershem wrote: Hold on, I just thought of something. Of COURSE guit and bass staves are transposing instruments! In the Staff Attirbutes, click Transposition, and UNcheck Simplify Key! I'm 99% sure that's it. Argh. Yes, that was it. Who put that in there, and why? What a pain! ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Interesting behavior
Darcy James Argue wrote: Simplify Key is designed to avoid unwieldy, nonstandard keys (like, ahem, Cb major, which IMO you *really* ought to reconsider) on transposing instruments. In the vast majority of cases, this is what you want. If a piece is in F# major, the clarinets should be written in Ab -- not G#! Cheers, - Darcy Not my choice - the piece in question goes through numerous keys, which the composer chose*. I guess this is what you get for letting Canadians write jazz. ; Carl *Bb, to G, to Cb, to Ab, to G, to Ab, to C. At least the drum part is readable. cd -- http://www.livejournal.com/users/dershem/# http://members.cox.net/dershem ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Interesting behavior
This is an issue I'd certainly bring up with the composer, i.e, Are you *sure* you absolutely need this passage written in Cb? Because it's going to be a whole lot easier to read in B. Cheers, - Darcy - djar...@earthlink.net Brooklyn, NY On 30 Sep 2009, at 5:58 PM, Carl Dershem wrote: Darcy James Argue wrote: Simplify Key is designed to avoid unwieldy, nonstandard keys (like, ahem, Cb major, which IMO you *really* ought to reconsider) on transposing instruments. In the vast majority of cases, this is what you want. If a piece is in F# major, the clarinets should be written in Ab -- not G#! Cheers, - Darcy Not my choice - the piece in question goes through numerous keys, which the composer chose*. I guess this is what you get for letting Canadians write jazz. ; Carl *Bb, to G, to Cb, to Ab, to G, to Ab, to C. At least the drum part is readable. cd -- http://www.livejournal.com/users/dershem/# http://members.cox.net/dershem ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Interesting behavior
In Carl's case, Cb is the only key that needs simplifying. When simplify is checked, Finale wraps anything more than six sharps or six flats. Assuming standard bigband instrumentation, you've got only Bb and Cb instruments, and therefore your transposed keys are Ab and Db, both standard keys that don't need simplifying. If he actually put the chart in B, then checking simplify key would avoid having the alto saxes in G# and the tenor saxes and trumpets in C#. Since he's got it in Cb, the transposed-key instruments don't need simplifying, but the concert-key instruments (guitar and bass) do! Cheers, - Darcy - djar...@earthlink.net Brooklyn, NY On 30 Sep 2009, at 5:42 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: Yeah, it's just weird that if you choose a concert key of Cb (which IS perfectly standard; no double flats or anything. I remember practicing études in that key) then it gets changed ONLY on the octave transposing instruments like guit and bass by default. Christopher On Wed Sep 30, at WednesdaySep 30 5:16 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Simplify Key is designed to avoid unwieldy, nonstandard keys (like, ahem, Cb major, which IMO you *really* ought to reconsider) on transposing instruments. In the vast majority of cases, this is what you want. If a piece is in F# major, the clarinets should be written in Ab -- not G#! Cheers, - Darcy - djar...@earthlink.net Brooklyn, NY On 30 Sep 2009, at 4:56 PM, Carl Dershem wrote: Hold on, I just thought of something. Of COURSE guit and bass staves are transposing instruments! In the Staff Attirbutes, click Transposition, and UNcheck Simplify Key! I'm 99% sure that's it. Argh. Yes, that was it. Who put that in there, and why? What a pain! ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Interesting behavior
Darcy James Argue wrote: Should have been Bb and *Eb* instruments, obviously. Cheers, - Darcy Well, except for the Bari player, who is always a little off anyway. ; cd -- http://www.livejournal.com/users/dershem/# http://members.cox.net/dershem ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Interesting behavior
And advanced musicians also will understand that a Db and a C# is the same during instructions. The number of sharps and flats shall always be kept as low as possible. Klaus --- On Wed, 9/30/09, dhbailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com wrote: From: dhbailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com Subject: Re: [Finale] Interesting behavior To: finale@shsu.edu Date: Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 10:29 PM And I can't think of very many musical situations where you would want some of the musicians to be in one key and others to be in a different key, even if enharmonically equivalent. Stop the rehearsal and say that Db needs to be changed and you'll get the guitarists and bassists scratching their heads and complaining that you don't know what you're talking about 'cause we don't have any stinking Db at all! I agree with Aaron that even if a person wants two different key signatures, it should definitely be the users' decision, not the program's. David H. Bailey P.S. by the time you're writing music with 7 flats -- it's for advanced musicians who should be equally comfortable playing in flats or sharps. arabu...@cowtown.net wrote: Still, that should be the users' decisions and not Finale's. ajr -- David H. Bailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Interesting behavior
Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre wrote: And advanced musicians also will understand that a Db and a C# is the same during instructions. The number of sharps and flats shall always be kept as low as possible. Klaus I always teach my private students that, for example, Gb should be played/thought as one natural instead of six flats. It's much easier. cd -- http://www.livejournal.com/users/dershem/# http://members.cox.net/dershem ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
